#indiewebcamp 2016-04-28

2016-04-28 UTC
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snarfed so the one main casualty of migrating bridgy to FB API v2.6 is that FB's /me/events endpoint consistently returns 500 "unknown error" for a handful of people. haven't figured out why yet. :/ https://brid.gy/admin/sources
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snarfed on the plus side, we're a big step closer to sending reactions!
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kylewm snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 218 karma
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snarfed thanks kylewm!
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kylewm Wish Facebook API would change slower
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snarfed lol
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snarfed evolve or die
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[kevinmarks] The granary/woodwind combo is good
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 32 minutes ago: please capture all the user frustrations you experienced today while trying to demo various indieweb tools. That real-time experience and your immediate reactions / insights are invaluable for future user-centric improvements http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-27/line/1461801172830
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tantek move fast and break developers?
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@craigburton #indieweb @kevinmarks: (twitter.com/_/status/725485238110052352)
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snarfed starts wading through the activitystreams specs and mailing list to figure out how to represent reactions
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GWG Has anyone implemented flood control on webmention updates?
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@craigburton #indieweb @kevinmarks: http://www.noterlive.com (twitter.com/_/status/725486763372908544)
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[kevinmarks] If I live tweet you with noterlive.com and you have brid.gy set up you'll get a homepage webmention for each tweet
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kylewm !tell snarfed getting backfeed of a whole bunch of likes on past Facebook photos and indieevents
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[shaners] HWC::LA.start();
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GWG Welcome LAers
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GWG Who is in attendance?
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chrisaldrich I'm physically in attendance
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GWG chrisaldrich: Welcome
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[shaners] I demoed my site running Dark Matter.
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[shaners] ChrisAldrich: #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Hi I'm Shane Becker of https://t.co/k35k89l0cv.
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/chrisaldrich/status/725498859754020865
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Hi I'm Shane Becker of https://t.co/k35k89l0cv. (twitter.com/_/status/725498859754020865)
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/chrisaldrich/status/725499421476134913
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: I'm not using webmentions or micropub yet with darkmatter (twitter.com/_/status/725499421476134913)
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[shaners] I showed posting a new not and syndicating to Twitter.
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/725499101907816448
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@veganstraightedge Demoing @DarkMatterAppCo at the first Santa Monica Homebrew Website Club. (twitter.com/_/status/725499101907816448)
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gRegorLove Heh, sweet logo on /Dark_Matter
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[shaners] http://veganstraightedge.com/notes/2016/04/28/demoing-darkmatterappco-at-the-first-santa-monica-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [Shane Becker] Demoing @DarkMatterAppCo at the first Santa Monica Homebrew Website Club.
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[shaners] ChrisAldrich is demoing his WordPress powered blog with all the indieweb plugins.
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[shaners] http://boffosocko.com
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Loqi I use this website as my primary hub for online presence and communication and to some extent as my online commonplace book. I try to follow the tenets of the IndieWeb movement by owning all of my own data and publishing on my own site. When I parti...
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GWG Go WordPress!!
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tantek nice!
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[shaners] ChrisAldrich is also running Known at http://stream.boffosocko.com
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: I'm not using webmentions or micropub yet with darkmatter (twitter.com/_/status/725499421476134913)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Hi I'm Shane Becker of https://t.co/k35k89l0cv. (twitter.com/_/status/725498859754020865)
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[shaners] ChrisAldrich is showing using the Android share sheet and URL Forwarder to like/repost/etc from within the Twitter app
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GWG wishes there was video
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[shaners] http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sharing-from-the-indieweb-on-mobile-android-with-apps-and
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Loqi Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown
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[shaners] Anthony Dreessen is showing his site on SqaureSpace
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[shaners] Totally indie, but none of the indieweb bits (rel-me, etc)
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GWG I'll ask again: Has anyone implemented flood control on webmention updates?
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KartikPrabhu what is flood control?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "flood control" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K0
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kylewm GWG: webmention.io has a thing where you can only send a webmention for a given source/target once every 30 seconds
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GWG kylewm: What about incoming flood control?
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GWG Sending a webmention endpoint the same webmention in rapid succession against a single target.
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Is having @anthonydreessen deploy Dark Matter on Heroku from GitHub to show how easy it is (twitter.com/_/status/725506656386306049)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Now showing off some of the backend of Dark Matter http://indiewebcamp.com/darkmatter (twitter.com/_/status/725505948446560256)
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aaronpk kylewm: is that where that is? I was trying to remember which project of mine has that
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kylewm GWG: isn't that what I said?
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kylewm aaronpk: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/master/controllers/webmention.rb#L37
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 325 karma
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kylewm lol
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GWG kylewm: I'm referring to the receiver receiving those webmentions
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aaronpk webmention.io is a webmention receiver
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gRegorLove "You might have too many projects when..." jk
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aaronpk it doesn't send webmentions
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aaronpk gRegorLove: lol microservices
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GWG I misunderstood
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aaronpk i'm tempted to draw a flow diagram of how p3k interacts with all the related projects. i think it might look a bit insane
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GWG What is that quote about genius resembling insanity?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "that quote about genius resembling insanity" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K1
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aaronpk i think instagram just changed its syndication UI
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aaronpk all the buttons are in a single column with toggle switches now
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[emmak] gwg: i implemented a rate limiter on my webmention endpoint
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GWG emmak: I think I'm implementing one now.
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[emmak] https://github.com/notenoughneon/skein/blob/master/api.ts#L69
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miklb How crazy would it be to use WordPress as a micropub client for a Jekyll site?
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GWG How would that work?
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miklb I found this https://github.com/mAAdhaTTah/wordpress-github-sync
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miklb syncs posts from a WP install to a GitHub repo.
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @anthonydreessen: Voila! I now have an indieweb site at http://anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com via Dark Matter (twitter.com/_/status/725508993360220160)
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miklb so I could set that up and use the micropub plugin on a subdomain that pushes to my repo that then builds the site with Travis and pushes back to my VPS.
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miklb sounds crazy now that I type it ;)
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GWG aaronpk: Returning a 429 is not in the webmention specification.
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[shaners] There were some bumps but AnthonyDreessen got his DM powered site deployed and POSSEed his first note to Twitter!
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/anthonydreessen/status/725513619966967808
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@AnthonyDreessen Giving @DarkMatterAppCo a whirl (twitter.com/_/status/725513619966967808)
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[shaners] http://anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com/notes/2016/04/28/giving-darkmatterappco-a-whirl
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Loqi [http://anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com/] Giving @DarkMatterAppCo a whirl
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[shaners] Next up is getting his domain wired up
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aaronpk GWG: good point!
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GWG aaronpk: I'm a purist.
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aaronpk Congrats Anthony and shaners!
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aaronpk GWG: info feel like it's useful to return a different error than 400 to indicate that the request might succeed if the sender tries again later, vs 400 which means that the same request should not be sent again
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GWG aaronpk: Thus, I pointed it out.
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GWG If it isn't documented...
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[emmak] would 503 "service unavailable" make more sense?
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aaronpk [emmak] no, because that implies the server did something wrong (5xx)
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aaronpk It looks like most APIs are using 429 to indicate the client has been rate limited which is why I went with that
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[emmak] but the client may not have done anything wrong either, if its a 3rd party flooding the endpoint
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GWG Yes, but it is telling the client it can try again later
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aaronpk technically it's possible that a bunch of other HTTP codes might be returned since a lot of them are about the HTTP transport protocol itself rather than application logic
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GWG A 429 should be an indication to a sender to try again later.
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sknebel 503's can also be retried (RFC even mentions Retry-After header, same as for 429)
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sknebel right now the webmention spec doesn't say anything what to do with errors
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sknebel (HTTP 429 is odd in a way, because it is a client-side error where the client actually should send the exact same request again)
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snarfed1 hey kylewm, the new FB bridgy backfeed, was it dupes? or new stuff it hadn't found before?
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snared or maybe old stuff sent to new urls?
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Loqi snared: bear left you a message on 12/7 at 2:00pm: can you file a bug with the url here - https://github.com/bear/indie-stats http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-07/line/1449525613595
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GWG snarfed: How many versions back of WordPress do you think someone should support?
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snared GWG: good question, no clue!
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snared as many as is practical?
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kylewm snarfed: new mentions, haven't seen them before
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GWG There is a feature implemented in 4.5 that really helps with Webmentions. Prior to that, you had to construct a complex database query to accomplish same. Which meant not taking advantage of caching. So, it basically means more database calls.
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snared kylewm: phew, thanks
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Showing how H2VX http://h2vx.com parses v-cards (which apparently needs an update @t) (twitter.com/_/status/725523049806712832)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: is discussing history of rel="me", openid, and indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/725520394300567552)
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GWG snared: So, the question is...hammer the database of old versions, or not.
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snarfed GWG: understood
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 59 minutes ago: getting backfeed of a whole bunch of likes on past Facebook photos and indieevents http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-27/line/1461806216969
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snarfed this is existing code, right? not new code that doesn't exist yet?
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bear I would suggest using a status code of 429 because while it's technically a client side error, it is used in the wild to represent a request that has been limited - twitter, github and others
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GWG snarfed: Which? What I'm working on? Or what I'm adding?
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snarfed convention++
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Loqi convention has 1 karma
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snarfed GWG: i don't know. the code you're talking about, where you could use the new 4.5 feature
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anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com created /User:Anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com (+87) "Created page with "== Anthony Dreessen == https://anthonydreessen.herokuapp.com powered by [[Dark Matter]]"" (view diff)
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GWG I added the newer code with a version conditional. But I want to use it again elsewhere in the process. This isn't bad if it is cached by WordPress, but it is bad if it isn't.
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snarfed actually bad? how many db queries are we talking here?
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GWG 2
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GWG Basically, a comment query
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snarfed that's not so bad
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GWG The unofficial WordPress policy is support 2 versions back.
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: IndieWebCamp in LA is November 4, 5, and 6 (twitter.com/_/status/725524844868190208)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @veganstraightedge: Showing how to log into http://IndieWebCamp.com and create a user page (twitter.com/_/status/725524727943553024)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+1253) "/* retrying */ rate limiting" (view diff)
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sknebel GWG aaronpk: wrote some of discussion about ratelimiting up in the wiki ^^^
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aaronpk thanks!
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+81) "/* rate-limiting */" (view diff)
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kylewm snarfed: any luck finding anything about reactions in activitystreams?
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snarfed kylewm: mostly no. there was a proposal at one point, then it was moved to an extension, which never fully existed
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snarfed i'm going to stick them into tags with verb 'react' and the emoji in content
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snarfed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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kylewm sur that seems as reasonable as anything else
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kylewm so like you hvae a top level post, and then reactions to it are stored in its tags?
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kylewm and i guess you could also represent a react activity on its own, that woudlnt involve tags right?
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snarfed kylewm: right, both, like likes, reposts, comments
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snarfed we need the standalone for serving it as mf2
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snarfed which will implement reacji
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snarfed although i'll avoid ever using that name in the code or docs :P
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kylewm snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 219 karma
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kylewm reacji--
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Loqi reacji has 0 karma
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kylewm meanwhile, I love saying salmentions, so who I am I to judge
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu I disklike both so at least I am consistent
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snarfed kylewm: looking for a project? i've only barely started... :P
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snarfed PRed the branch: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/pull/88
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kylewm hehe, not right at the moment, i is sleepy
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snarfed ahahaha https://github.com/snarfed/granary/pull/88/files#diff-a014a69c5c7b490b39118ed34cd26bb0R418
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snarfed heh fair enough. doubt i'll do much tonight either though :P
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kylewm do we have a Python equivalent of ben_thatmustbeme's emoji recognizing library?
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[kevinmarks] Activity Streams 1.0 has mood, which is almost a reaction
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[kevinmarks] Hm. That sounds like the kind of thing that someone will have written a pep for.
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snarfed thank god i don't need that
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kylewm yeah, it is intense https://github.com/dissolve/single-emoji-recognizer/blob/master/src/emoji.php
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/carpedm20/emoji/blob/master/emoji/unicode_codes.py
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[kevinmarks] It has a utility that scrapes the unicode website to build that
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/carpedm20/emoji/blob/master/utils/get-codes-from-unicode-consortium.py
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snarfed reacji-- btw
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Loqi reacji has -1 karma
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kylewm hmm, I woudln't mind having support for those shortcodes
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kylewm What is reacjweet?
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Loqi A reacjweet is a reacji posted as a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/reacjweet
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miklb !tell voxpelli when you have a few minutes wondering if I could pick your brain regarding your micropub client
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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kylewm ohh voxpelli has a micropub client?
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miklb in development meant for Jekyll. Pushes to gh repo
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kylewm ah ha, i see it now
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miklb well, several bits if pulled together can do that.
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Loqi [indieweb] "come over to table 15 for an #indieweb demo #iiw" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/come-over-to-table-15-for-an-indieweb-demo-iiw
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Loqi [indieweb] "thank you for being part of my demo #iiw #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/thank-you-for-being-part-of-my-demo-iiw-indieweb
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Loqi [indieweb] "demonstrating indieweb replies on table 15 #iiw" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/demonstrating-indieweb-replies-on-table-15-iiw
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aaronpk i should totally make some webmention.rocks stickers before indieweb summit :D
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miklb is the wiki down or just for me?
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miklb ah, there it goes
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30404
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Happy #IndieWeb Birthday to Me! by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/25/happy-indieweb-birthday-to-me/#comment-30403
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miklb huh, thought I had it figured out, but when I tried to publish from quill, got a 403
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jkphl.is uploaded /File:openSUSE_conference_2016.png "openSUSE Conference 2016 Logo"
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jkphl.is created /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+4383) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> == <span class="p-name summary">[[2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day|IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg 2016]]</span> == * '''When:''' <span class="dt-start d..."" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+183) "/* IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg 2016 */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (+2082) (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /Events (+485) "/* June */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /Planning (+26) "/* Brighton, UK */" (view diff)
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@Pingu RT @jkphl 🏁 Just launched: Register now for the free #IndieWeb Hack Day, June 22nd, in Nuremberg during @openSUSE conf! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/725651030831161344)
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@jkphl 🏁 Just launched: Register now for the free #IndieWeb Hack Day, June 22nd, in Nuremberg during @openSUSE conf! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/725650077352640512)
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@btconf Still time to register for the #IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf. 9 seats left: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/725655520133177345)
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@jkphl RT @btconf Still time to register for the #IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf. 9 seats left: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/725657505490210818)
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@wwnrw RT @btconf Still time to register for the #IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf. 9 seats left: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/725657060994600961)
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@bastianallgeier RT @btconf Still time to register for the #IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf. 9 seats left: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/725656427180732416)
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@egoexpress RT @jkphl 🏁 Just launched: Register now for the free #IndieWeb Hack Day, June 22nd, in Nuremberg during @openSUSE conf! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/725656071361146882)
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marcthiele.com edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+1344) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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petermolnar wow, this might come useful: "Jam API is a service that allows you to turn any site into a JSON accessible api using CSS selectors" http://www.jamapi.xyz/
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aaronpk lol, those pop up every now and then
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snarfed eureka, i've invented xslt!
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@henne RT @jkphl 🏁 Just launched: Register now for the free #IndieWeb Hack Day, June 22nd, in Nuremberg during @openSUSE conf! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/725696734870032384)
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aaronpk oh gosh, after I get back from Düsseldorf there's only 3 weeks until IndieWeb Summit in Portland
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miklb aaronpk does Quill support https ?
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aaronpk yes
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miklb hmm.
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aaronpk my site is only available on https now and it works fine with it
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miklb I meant posting to https site.
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aaronpk right. me too
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miklb just trying to figure out where in this chain it failed.
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miklb which is kinda funny since I"m not exactly sure how any of this really works anyway :-)
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aaronpk do you see an error from Quill?
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miklb yes, Token "me" didn't match any of: "https://miklb.com/", Got: "http://miklb.com/"
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miklb method=POST path="/micropub/miklb.com" host=miklb-micropub.herokuapp.com
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aaronpk are you using your own token endpoint?
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miklb yes?
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aaronpk if not, you are likely using tokens.indieauth.com
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miklb oh, correct
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aaronpk is that error message something you wrote?
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miklb no, this is voxpelli's code
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aaronpk I don't see it in Quill or tokens.indieauth.com
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk well it looks like the token was issued for "http://miklb.com/" but Quill thinks you're signed in as "https://miklb.com/"
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aaronpk try entering the other one when you sign in to quill
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voxpelli Sounds correct, and since its about security it's probably not something I should relax the checks for :P
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Loqi voxpelli: miklb left you a message 10 hours, 4 minutes ago: when you have a few minutes wondering if I could pick your brain regarding your micropub client http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-27/line/1461819370260
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miklb ok, at least i got a different error this time :_
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voxpelli miklb: anything I can help with? Have a few minutes right now
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miklb voxpelli my initial question was about your second endpoint in server.js, the subdomain.
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miklb I managed to figure out how to get heroku up and running with the "glue" bit you shared with me. Now just trying to get the last mile
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miklb so now the error is with connecting to GitHub
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voxpelli miklb: I think it would be enough to generate a token here: https://github.com/settings/tokens And then do: heroku config:set MICROPUB_GITHUB_TOKEN="abc123"
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miklb yes, I did that
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miklb hmm. maybe I didn't authorize the token properly
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voxpelli miklb: I have "repo" rights on mine
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miklb yes, updating that now
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miklb hmm. Still getting a "Not found" error for GitHub in the logs
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miklb maybe because I'm trying to push to a branch? repo: 'miklb.github.com.jekyll'
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voxpelli miklb: branch isn't currently supported, give me a second
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miklb aaronpk btw that was the issue. I didn't explicitly specify https when I logged into Quill
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aaronpk Cool
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aaronpk I think we solved that at the same time as allowing you to sign in with the root domain but then your ID has a path. I thought quill had been updated for that but I'll have to check
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voxpelli miklb: I pushed an update that allows you to set a branch-key in the sites.js
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voxpelli miklb: so do this now instead: repo: 'miklb.github.com', branch: 'jekyll'
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miklb \_O_/ Success!
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miklb voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 72 karma
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voxpelli yay!
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Loqi giggles
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miklb voxpelli now to play with your editorial workflows
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miklb well, after I get displaying the micropub posts working properly on my site
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voxpelli miklb: maybe I should just publish the endpoint as is now as a first simple version of it? So it can be iterated on more openly?
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miklb voxpelli well, if I can get it working…
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miklb I did have to disable the tests because I couldn't figure out how to get past them to push to heroku
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miklb but that's just because I'm not familiar with grunt tasks and local configurations
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miklb voxpelli one more question. How might I go about customizing the FrontMatter?
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voxpelli miklb: check the format-microformat module/step
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voxpelli The idea of that module was to enable customization, although I didn't get very far on the customize part of things
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miklb thanks. I'll look closer at that
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miklb before I go about customizing anything, I need to make sure the defaults are all displaying properly anyway.
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miklb is really appreciative of all the work everyone's put into these tools
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+0) "moved discussion of rel on <a> tags to resolved" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+0) "moved status code discussion to resolved" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+322) "/* checking endpoint once per domain/caching the endpoint */" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: have yall discussed formalizing a key/token parameter for webmention endpoints, so something like bridgy would know it was accessing an endpiont with some sort of authentication?
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kylewm my intuition is that rediscovering and retrying the webmention endpoint for every failed/rejected mention would be beyond the pale for bridgy
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kylewm (like it wouldn't be worth caching at all)
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aaronpk it's not authentication though
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aaronpk the "expiring endpoint" is actually a standard CSRF technique
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aaronpk the same one that's built into Rails and Laravel now
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kylewm yeah I shouldn't have said authentication
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aaronpk probably the proper way to handle this is to actually make bridgy send authenticated webmentions
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kylewm or maybe if there was an http code that specifically meant expired
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aaronpk since I have to explicitly sign up for bridgy in order for it to send me webmentions, it seems reasonable that I could give it higher privileges at my site
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aaronpk so if I want to use a CSRF-protected webmention endpoint, bridgy could say that it needs a way to bypass the CSRF protection, and it could then include an HTTP header with a token that I can check for
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kylewm that seems a little premature i guess
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kylewm like, I thnk we should prototype the CSRF behavior by having bridgy rediscover the endpoint every time, but it would be useful if it knew ahead of time if it needed to do that
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snarfed i get CSRF in general, but i don't quite get how it applies to webmention endpoints specifically
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snarfed i'd want to see a clear description of that first
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kylewm my understanding is it's basically to slow someone down, prevent them from sending a billion webmentions without having to send any GETs themseves
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kylewm cause it takes away their leverage if they have to send you a GET for every GET they "trick" you into sending someone else
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aaronpk it's also less important with current webmentions, but will be more important if anyone starts including things like session cookies or tokens along with the webmention request
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kylewm then it would *actually* be a CSRF token, right? not just an expiration
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snarfed ok. i understand the spam/throttling use case. just wanted to make sure we're talking about that, and not actually CSRF
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aaronpk the same technique is used for both
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snarfed sure, but which problem we're solving matters
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snarfed if it's spam, i'd personally be more reluctant to implement this technique specifically on the client side in bridgy
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snarfed sorry, s/spam/dos throttling/, since that's actually the (straw man) problem. spam filtering is a bit different.
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aaronpk in either case, the spec is actually only specifically recommending a CSRF token, and only *if* you're accepting other authentication along with the source/target parameters, so it's no rush right now
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kylewm I meeeean, we know the DDoS case is real because it's been documented in pingback pretty thoroughly
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aaronpk that's not related to this though
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aaronpk you will have already passed this step by the time you're talking about the DDoS issue
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snarfed coming at it from a different angle, i should reread the spec to see what it says about caching...but there's definitely a need for high volume clients to be able to cache and not rediscover every time
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snarfed that's the (other) root cause here
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kylewm snarfed: I was specifically responding to this brainstorm http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=27218&oldid=27217&rcid=27180
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kylewm which I think would be the "worst of both worlds" for bridgy :)
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snarfed thanks kylewm! for single-use endpoints, yes, absolutely
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@phidip @btconf we’re aiming at Berlin, again. But these #IndieWebCamp-guys will be a tough act to follow for you. But you can do it ;) (twitter.com/_/status/725730986508562433)
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snarfed a compromise might be to allow (more) caching when there's no endpoint, which is the majority case for bridgy
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[emmak] aaronpk: i switched my auth/token endpoints to https, and can no longer log into quill
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[emmak] the error i am getting is "Below is the raw response from your token endpoint (https://api.notenoughneon.com/api/token):", followed by an empty string
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[emmak] on my end, i can't see anything in the logs for the token endpoint
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aaronpk that most likely means there's someting wrong with the SSL config and quill isn't able to make a connection
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aaronpk ah yeah, you're missing the cert chain
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aaronpk https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=api.notenoughneon.com&latest
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[emmak] ok, didn't realize that was something i needed to install
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aaronpk usually you'll also get an "intermediate" certificate
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aaronpk and depending on your web server, that gets installed in different ways
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[emmak] i got a chain.pem and fullchain.pem from letsencrypt but didn't know what they're for
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aaronpk use fullchain.pem and it will probably "just work"
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aaronpk it's pretty funny that sometimes after i post something on my site, i see the battery icon in the header bar, and am like oh crap i should charge my phone
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kylewm I think that too about your phone
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aaronpk something went wrong with the plug last night and i woke up and my phone was at 3% oops
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aaronpk i blame the sketchy hotel lamp outlet. whenever i plug something in to it, it flickers for a few seconds.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked Ben Borges's post on 1-m.cc: Really nice and cheap tool to automate erasing your facebook activity http://activityremover.com/ before leaving or before going #indieweb" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/liked-ben-borgess-post-on-1-mcc-really-nice-and-cheap
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[emmak] aaronpk: thanks! i got it working now
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[emmak] that ssl tester is helpful
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[kevinmarks] I tend to crop the menu bar out for that reason
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[kevinmarks] Also, someone made an iOS app that changes screenshots to show a full battery :battery:
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[emmak] kylewm: i am having trouble logging in to woodwind
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[emmak] it looks like after i am redirected back to login-callback, woodwind is posting to the auth endpoint, which i don't understand
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[kylewm] What's it doing? I haven't gotten any error emails :/
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[emmak] the only error i get from woodwind is "Login error: authorization failed. Unknown Error: Unknown Error"
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[kylewm] Oh yeah that's plain indieauth, rather than micropub
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[emmak] previously, my auth endpoint was returning an error because no "scope" was set in the request
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[kylewm] https://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-for-login#Auth_code_verification
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[emmak] after talking to aaronpk yesterday, i tried to implement "request_type=id", which it defaults to unless request type is code
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[kylewm] Hmm, I admit I don't know about that. I might be missing support for is
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[kylewm] id*
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[emmak] this indieauth exchange looks different from how i understand its supposed to work in oauth 2
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[kylewm] It may be legacy cruft from before token_endpoint
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[emmak] reading the spec again
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miklb Just hooked up OwnYourGram and still marveling at what voxpelli has done with his microbub/jekyll/github tool
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snarfed woo facebook reactions backfeed! https://brid.gy/facebook/212038#responses
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed++ these are reacji that fall back to likes?
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Loqi snarfed has 220 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme oops he left
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: just reacji, no fallback
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ben_thatmustbeme they processed as likes on your site though
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snarfed (and that may be the last time i say the word reacji :P)
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snarfed ? no they didn't, scroll down
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kylewm Do people use huffduffer as a list of things to listen to, of recommending things they liked to others?
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snarfed kylewm: the former
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KartikPrabhu adactio would know ;)
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snarfed oh i thought he was polling us :P
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snarfed yeah lots of both probably
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KartikPrabhu you can also create your own playlists IIRC to share using URLs! URLs! wow!
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kylewm Yeah I was polling. I think it was intended for the latter
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kylewm But useful for the former
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KartikPrabhu self-sharing ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, snarfed, i was looking at the second entry, not the first, nice!
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snarfed only on for beta users right now, but i'll probably flip the switch for everyone soon
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gRegorLove kylewm: I do the former
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gRegorLove Very helpful for back catalogs of podcasts where the episodes aren't in the feed, but are online.
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kylewm TAL style
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kylewm I want to publish podcast episode recommendations, it would be cool to have that as a feed like HD, so you could subscribe to it
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gRegorLove Huffduffer to recommend would work well I'm sure, I just don't have a big network on there at this point.
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snarfed looking at mine, the vast majority are actually videos that i only needed to listen to, not watch
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gRegorLove Though I guess I could embed a feed of recommendations on my site.
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gRegorLove Or even import them as notes
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snarfed ok everyone other than ben_thatmustbeme, you now have motivation to implement reactions :P
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snarfed eg aaronpk! https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/01/9/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Guess what day is the worst day to announce you're quitting your job
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: want to be a beta tester?
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ben_thatmustbeme sure
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gRegorLove What motivation is that, snarfed? :)
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snarfed gRegorLove: bridgy backfeeding fb reactions
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gRegorLove likes his ASCII
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: heh you actually need to renew your bridgy fb. https://brid.gy/facebook/14305603
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kylewm My FB posts are friends only so I don't have to worry about them yet :p
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gRegorLove I'll be content with "mentioned this" for now.
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed: done
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snarfed gRegorLove: you render replies, right? they're just replies. i expect you'll render the emoji unless you explicitly prevent it
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gRegorLove Some, probably. Think my database isn't utf8mb4 yet
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tantek what is utf8mb4?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "utf8mb4" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K2
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ben_thatmustbeme utf8mb4 is the MySQL character set which includes emoji symbols.
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loqi.me created /utf8mb4 (+91) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-28/line/1461874042831 and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove What is utf8?
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Loqi UTF-8 is a way to encode Unicode characters in variable number of bytes per character https://indiewebcamp.com/utf8
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gregorlove.com edited /utf8mb4 (+266) "expand, link to post about utf8mb4, see also" (view diff)
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: done, but it didn't find any reactions on your posts. i'll go add one myself :P
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ben_thatmustbeme i haven't posted in a while
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ben_thatmustbeme hold on, i'll do that
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snarfed you don't have to
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ben_thatmustbeme it will get others to hopefully react too
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snarfed huh, you actually do have reactions on your pictures. we may not be finding those
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ben_thatmustbeme man my server is going slow
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ben_thatmustbeme https://www.facebook.com/14305603/posts/10101854619419754
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ben_thatmustbeme something to react to
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[kevinmarks] kylewm: I use huffduffer mainly for me, but sometimes point it to others
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[kevinmarks] utf8mb4 is MySQL's latest deep misunderstanding of the point of utf8
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, basically
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk i thought utf8mb4 was the Right Way™
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gRegorLove It is
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aaronpk it didn't seem to actually solve my problem with webmention.io, so i switched it to store text in a BLOB column, but whatev
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gRegorLove Oh
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snarfed ok ben_thatmustbeme you have mail now :P
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ben_thatmustbeme i just saw it
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ben_thatmustbeme success!
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snarfed fun!
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, 20 pending webmentions, all from bridgy. all say Target Link Not Found At Source
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snarfed doh
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ben_thatmustbeme i really need to fix that, haha
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snarfed ? it's your bug? or ours?
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ben_thatmustbeme mine i believe
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snarfed ah
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ben_thatmustbeme i think its when i'm tagged in someone else's post or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to look in to it
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snarfed ah, and we are finding reactions on photos, we're just not sending you many because we don't navigate across multiple pages of likes/comments/reactions
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snarfed FB evidently puts likes first in reactions, and your posts are popular and have lots :P
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/657
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ben_thatmustbeme plus most of them are not posted from me
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ben_thatmustbeme i get tagged in a lot of stuff
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ben_thatmustbeme here's on of those i was talking about https://brid-gy.appspot.com/post/facebook/14305603/10101544834566084
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gRegorLove I knew Huffduffer extracted "elsewhere" links from rel-me, but I didn't realize it kept them up to date. Just noticed it caught my instagram after I added it.
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] Ben Roberts was tagged in Jennifer O'Brien's photo.
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ben_thatmustbeme i knew about this problem for a while
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[kevinmarks] MySQL's problem is that they want to map unicode back to fixed bit width characters so they can do case independent indexing, so they keep inventing wider bitwidth representations and breaking things by converting them
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[kevinmarks] If you don't want their dumbass text indexing, blobs are a good idea.
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kylewm gRegorLove: whoa, that's impressive
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kylewm huffduffer++
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Loqi huffduffer has 3 karma
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gRegorLove [kevinmarks]: Does that apply in general, or only to fulltext columns?
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gRegorLove huffduffer++ needs more than that!
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Loqi huffduffer has 4 karma
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snarfed huffduffer++
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Loqi huffduffer has 5 karma
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+846) (view diff)
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kylewm I wonder who did the art on https://huffduffer.com/about
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gRegorLove I'm not sure how to get a profile photo on huffduffer
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@jkphl Delighted to find @derSchepp on https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf/Guest_List (besides the usual suspects @bastianallgeier @webrocker @fredericmarx ...)! 😍 (twitter.com/_/status/725815963388678144)
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tantek.com created /2016/MIT/expenses (+400) "note Mozilla sponsored dinner expense for IWC MIT" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /reacji (+142) "/* Implementations */ bridgy" (view diff)
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notenoughneon.com edited /HTTPS (+128) "/* Posts about HTTPS */" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I'd need to check, but I think it is all columns MySQL thinks are text. Aaron has wrestled with it more recently
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aaronpk yeah pretty sure it would happen with varchar columns too but most people don't have emoji names *ahem tantek*
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aaronpk i was seeing the issues with text columns because tons of comments i was handling have emoji
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gRegorLove What issue were you seeing? That it wouldn't store the character?
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kylewm !tell emmak did you have any luck with woodwind/indieauth?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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aaronpk yeah, database error when it tried to insert
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kylewm whoa, it seems like there are a lot of people using huffduff-video
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[emmak] kylewm: yes, i figured out the problem was on my end
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Loqi [emmak]: kylewm left you a message 5 minutes ago: did you have any luck with woodwind/indieauth? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-28/line/1461887627507
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[emmak] i was confused over the implementation of /IndieAuthProtocol, which appears to be separate from the oauth 2 spec
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[kylewm] emmak: did you still think the spec seemed odd compared to regular OAuth 2?