#indiewebcamp 2016-04-29

2016-04-29 UTC
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aaronpk it's somewhat of a subset of OAuth 2
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[emmak] and also confused over "indieauth.com" vs "indie auth protocol"
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aaronpk or rather, a subset which makes a bunch of decisions that OAuth 2 left unspecified
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aaronpk yeah that part is my fault, i never should have called that service indieauth.com
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[kylewm] aaronpk: the confusion I have had sometimes is that the authentication flow verifies your code against the authorization_endpiont, but the authorization flow verifies the code against the token_endpoint
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aaronpk in the authentication flow, there is no token endpoint, so it's verifying the code at the authorization endpoint
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aaronpk in the authorization flow, it's not "verifying" the code, it's actually exchanging the code for a token, so it talks to the token endpoint
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bear FYI - if your running GitLab -- https://about.gitlab.com/2016/04/28/gitlab-major-security-update-for-cve-2016-4340/
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kylewm !tell snarfed fyi, it looks like there may be a few people using huffduff-video to download audio from soundcloud (which is already available *on* soundcloud)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Heh, that's probably a clever way to get around soundcloud not allowing download for some tracks
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gRegorLove What is huffduff-video?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "huffduff-video" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K3
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gRegorLove huffduff-video extracts audio from video and sends it to /Huffduffer http://huffduff-video.snarfed.org/
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gRegorLove huffduff-video is a service that extracts audio from video and sends it to /Huffduffer http://huffduff-video.snarfed.org/
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loqi.me created /huffduff-video (+148) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-28/line/1461889082828 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gregorlove.com edited /huffduff-video (+6) "links, period" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2016/MIT/Planning (+44) "expenses link" (view diff)
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tantek !tell shaners were you able to take/post a photo from HWC LA/SM? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-27-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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miklb what is syndication targets
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syndication targets" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K4
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Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf 2016, 7th-8th May 2016" http://lanyrd.com/2016/indiewebcampger/
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aaronpk ahhh that's next week
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[kevinmarks] How I'd NY hwc looking?
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[kevinmarks] *is
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[kevinmarks] Doc searls Christopher Allen both expressed interest
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tantek we have a date and location confirmed. no new information beyond that
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[kevinmarks] HWC, not camp
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tantek no new information on NYC HWC - have to ask GWG about that
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tantek is searls in NYC now?
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aaronparecki.com edited /webmention-implementation-guide (+1802) "move sample PHP from brainstorming to implementation guide" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-brainstorming () "(-1792) move sample PHP from brainstorming to implementation guide" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Yes, and Allen is too. Also Peter Shanley is moving there and says we could use Civic Space
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npdoty hey indiewebcamp, I'm thinking about implementing an ephemeral URL system on my site, and wonder about prior art
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npdoty basically, I would add "/until6pm" to the end of a URL, and my server would give back a short url that forwards to the original URL if it's before 6pm that day, and afterwards returns 410
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npdoty but I'm curious if people have thoughts on this, or if someone has already done it and I can just use their code
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aaronpk what happens if you just take off the "/until6pm" part of the URL?
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npdoty I would give out a URL that didn't contain "until6pm", but was just an opaque short URL that redirected
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npdoty and maybe the landing page would know it was an ephemeral redirection and could include a banner asking the user not to share the URL
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk also hi! i saw you at the mapzen meetup the other night but didn't get a chance to say hi in person!
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npdoty and a retroactive hello to you too!
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npdoty I hadn't been to a mapping event in a while and was surprised at the number of familiar faces including people I thought lived in other states :)
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aaronpk same!
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tantek kevinmarks - can you look into whether Peter would be willing to co-organize and what capacity he could get at Civic Space?
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tantek what is expiring?
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Loqi Expiring content is content that is only temporarily (ephemerally) relevant, and also part of a larger post, that can and should be (preferably automatically) removed once a particular datetime has passed (the expiration date) https://indiewebcamp.com/expiring
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tantek npdoty: ^^^
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npdoty cheers, thanks
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npdoty yeah, I wish expiration were built into all sorts of things on the Web
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npdoty also, why don't any mail clients use the Expiry: header?
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GWG Did someone say HWC NYC?
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aaronpk new version of the webmention draft! no new functional changes, just administrative https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#changes-from-20-april-2016-wd-to-29-april-2016
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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bear looks like StartSSL is going to have features similar to LetsEncrypt -- https://startssl.com/NewsDetails?date=20160428
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aaronpk whoa, they'll issue intermediate certs to service providers too
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aaronpk wow their english is horrible, they really need someone to review their copy
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bear :)
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aaronpk "... [an] annual maintenance fee is charged at the friction of the costs ..."
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bear non-english speakers trusting the spell checker
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aaronpk ah yeah
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bear sheesh - i've had the code editor open to add delete support to my webmention handler ... for 3 days now
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bear I knew about all of the challenges being an older person is tech held -- but no one warned me that I would get the most angst from simple the rate of change and having to manage it
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aaronpk that's how i feel about node.js right now
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bear (oops - letting my thoughts escape in the wrong context)
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bear oh my word - i've got so many thoughts on that
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aaronpk that is probably best left for a chat over 🍺
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bear most from knowing really well the people who formed the core of node.js when it started
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bear haha - yes!
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bear opens the editor and terminal windows again
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bear I will pass the delete test!
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aaronpk interesting indieweb use case, my realtor has a domain name that is her name, but it's just a redirect to her profile page at whatever firm she is currently at. I've known her for a few years now and she's moved around between firms, but keeps her domain name and email address throughout those moves.
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bear a lot of professionals (myself included) always have a mix of personal and firm/company cards on hand)
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bear not helping your point... :/
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aaronpk not sure what my point was
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aaronpk just an observation
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bear hmm, so she would have an h-card that is part her information and part of a contact/info item for her current gig
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GWG aaronpk, re the webmention draft, what is coming up implementation wise?
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aaronpk i'd say if you're following the chat in here about it, you're up to date
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GWG aaronpk, I always feel better with set documentation.
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aaronpk yeah, not much has changed functionally recently, but lots of admin tasks to get the spec ready
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GWG aaronpk, I have been immersed in webmentions lately, as you may have noticed.
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aaronpk the meta tag 410 delete thing is probably the biggest functional change if we can sort that out
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aaronpk i've also been writing a summary of the changes in a change log to make it easy to review
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GWG I have to figure out 410 on WordPress. Someone did create a plugin for it, but I am not sure I like the implementation.
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GWG Also, I think something happened to Bridgy today, and I need to check the logs
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kylewm GWG: backfeeding facebook reactions
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GWG kylewm: My site interpreted it as a reply though.
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kylewm it is a reply
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kylewm a reply with an emoji as the content
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GWG It shows up as a comment, as opposed to a like which shows up differently.
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GWG kylewm: I'm not sure how to best identify these things.
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GWG I'm wondering if Bridgy should give me a sign or if it is better to figure it out on my own.
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kylewm I'm trying to stay out of the reacji stuff :)
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GWG kylewm: I'm getting them. I have no interest in sending them, but I'd like them to be recognized as not a comment.
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GWG I guess I have to check for a single character content scenario?
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kylewm !tell ben_thatmustbeme hey there's a stray </div> on line 73 of your homepage (should be a </a>) that means I'm not getting your posts in woodwind :(
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu thank goodness for visible HTML
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snarfed kylewm: yep! hdf definitely sees plenty of usage. avg 60 files/day, 62MB/file
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 5 hours, 30 minutes ago: fyi, it looks like there may be a few people using huffduff-video to download audio from soundcloud (which is already available *on* soundcloud) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-28/line/1461888508715
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snarfed and yeah i don't mind the soundcloud thing, totally fine
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snarfed hope you're not seeing any problems!
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snarfed GWG: you'll want to read https://indiewebcamp.com/reacji#How_to
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GWG snarfed: Thank you
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kylewm snarfed: heh, not at all. had a podcast on soundcloud that i wanted to huffduff but couldnt' find the mp3 for it, so i went to see if anyone had done it already
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@marcthiele @derSchepp there never was a better time to start then ;) // #indiewebcamp @jkphl @fredericmarx (twitter.com/_/status/725923752983154688)
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bear hmm, webmention.rocks update test 2 doesn't seem to show pendings
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bear bah - helps if I run the proper test
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GWG I just got rid of three more bits of custom code in the webmentions plugin.
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bear code removal is always a good thing! congrats!
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GWG bear: There was some custom code in there, I found WordPress had a function to do that already
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bear cool
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bear code removal means bug surface area reduction - so it's always a good ting
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GWG I'm really trying to iterate on it.
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@marcthiele Hey @glennjones – this time no #IndieWebCamp for you in Düsseldorf? ;) https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2016/side-events#indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/725945749997907972)
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marcthiele Good morning from Germany.
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marcthiele Question: My rel=me link was working for Google in the past. Now it is not anymore, without me changing anything. Gives me "No rel=me link was found on https://plus.google.com/+marcthiele to http://marcthiele.com/" When logging in to the wiki.
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marcthiele What could possibly the problem. I have a link to my site in my google profile.
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bear is this for indieauth or ???
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bear a quick test to see if rel=me is setup ok is to try it in https://indiewebify.me
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bear Level 1 step 2 has a test for web sign-in
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marcthiele Sorry, bear, it is.
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marcthiele I'll give it a try again there. Just wondering as it used to work.
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marcthiele Also, this morning over here, I get this error, no matter if I try to authenticate with GitHub or Twitter: "An unhandled lowlevel error occured. The application logs may have details."
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bear which site are you trying to log into?
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marcthiele The IndieWebCamp Wiki.
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bear ah
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marcthiele BTW: https://indiewebify.me/ says that google "works perfectly". Hmm strange ;)
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bear I would leave a !tell message for aaronpk as he (I think) is the only one who can see the wiki logs
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marcthiele I will. Cheers.
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bear he is on US West Coast time right now
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KartikPrabhu github seems to work for me at the moment
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walterebert.com edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+312) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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voxpelli !tell marcthiele My guess is that the IndieAuth.com issue is caused by a ü-char. I opened an issue for it at the repo
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk odd about the login
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aaronpk yeah, "URI::InvalidURIError - URI must be ascii only"
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aaronpk looks like an indieauth.com issue
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aaronpk i wonder why the URL isn't getting encoded properly
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aaronpk !tell marcthiele voxpelli is right, the problem with the login is when it's trying to take you back to the Düsseldorf page. if you click on the home page and log in from there it will work fine.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk googleplus--
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Loqi googleplus has -1 karma
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aaronpk !tell marcthiele it looks like for whatever reason, Google is not actually showing the link to your website in the HTML response that indieauth.com gets. They have a nasty habit of changing the HTML they send back depending on who's fetching it. I would start using Github instead of Google.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "New @W3C Webmention draft! Minor clarifications + linked to the http://webmention.rocks test suite. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#changes-from-20-april-2016-wd-to-29-april-2016 #RoadToCR" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/29/5/webmention
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@aaronpk New @W3C Webmention draft! Minor clarifications + linked to the https://webmention.rocks/ test suite. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#changes-from-20-april-2016-wd-to-29-april-2016 #RoadToCR (twitter.com/_/status/726062574328930307)
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@HongPong i am trying to get more into indieweb things this summer. gonna try to see if any ways to amplify this kinda thing https://twitter.com/anton612/status/726063138903199745 (twitter.com/_/status/726063601652498432)
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk New @W3C Webmention draft! Minor clarifications + linked to the https://webmention.rocks/ test suite. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#changes-from-20-april-2016-wd-to-29-april-2016 #RoadToCR (twitter.com/_/status/726077165536579585)
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bret does anyone have experience hosting their personal website on google app engine?
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bret https://indiewebcamp.com/App_Engine
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bret all i see are services hosted there
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snarfed bret: i know plenty of people who have/do. and i can obviously answer general app engine q's
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bret looking for a place to host either a node or go website on a webserver with hands off ops
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bret heroku was kinda the place for a while, till they made their free teir sleep
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snarfed app engine sounds appropriate
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snarfed maybe also aws lambda. its free tier is 1y, which is a while, but gae's is permanent
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bret snarfed: can you set a limit on how much you are willing to pay if you go over?
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snarfed bret: definitely!
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snarfed $0 by default. iirc you don't need a credit card to sign up
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bret rad
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bret it would be cool to not have to manage another server
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[kevinmarks] you need a credit card for some things (callbacks etc)
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snarfed.org edited /App_Engine (+225) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ granary, *-atom" (view diff)
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bret i have a cc, i just dont want to wake up to a $1000 bill one morning
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bret if something goes wrong
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snarfed definitely
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snarfed servers--
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Loqi servers has -6 karma
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[kevinmarks] go is on classic appengine; node on the new thing that is more of a docker image hosting thing
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bret i like servers, but my dedication to keeping them running wavers, and I dont want my site to go down because of that
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[kevinmarks] hm, noterlive is on heroku
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bret i just read gopl.io really digging go now. reminds me of my ES5 only node pals
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bret if you have more than one app on gae, does it all count against the same free teir pool? or does each one get its own set of free resources?
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snarfed bret: each app gets its own free tier
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bret cool
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snarfed go++ . great language. wrote a big system in it as my last project at google
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Loqi go has 4 karma
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[kevinmarks] I keep feeling I should try go, but python is more comfortable somehow
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[kevinmarks] is Go's package management easier?
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: it's good
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: and there's only one of it :P
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bret go feels more like node to me than python, but node people are more enamoured with rust, and python people seem to move to go so ???
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bret people compare go to java a lot too, which confuses me
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bret i dont see the crossover
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[kevinmarks] google writes a lot of stuff in Java, so that may be the target there
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bret its true, I know nothing about java
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bret oh but also, a lot of the early node devs were ex-java people. like almost the entire wallmart labs team
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KevinMarks hm, spiderpig didn't work on kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks or rather it archived the homepage and didn't follow links
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KevinMarks trying it on epeus.blogspot.com it is flattening all the tag pages under /search/label/ which I suppose makes sense
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[emmak] what is spiderpig?
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Loqi Spiderpig is a web crawler for archiving a website as static HTML files https://indiewebcamp.com/Spiderpig
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[emmak] oh cool
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KevinMarks another of aaron's really helpful tools
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aaronpk KevinMarks: try www.kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 123 karma
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KevinMarks makes sense
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KevinMarks I'll wait until epeus completes firts
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aaronpk iirc it doesn't archive redirects across domain names
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aaronpk hmm http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/googles-onhub-router-finally-gets-some-smart-home-features-via-ifttt/
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aaronpk how long until IFTTT is bought by google?
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Loqi I don't know
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KevinMarks does it only archive same-domain images?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: i think so yeah
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KevinMarks I'll see how that works with blogger
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aaronpk yeah because it assumes you're going to host the resulting folder at the same domain that was archived, so there's no way to reference other-domain images
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KevinMarks I think they have an image hosting domain
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aaronpk it's made specifically for turning a rails/node/php site into HTML and continuing to serve that site from the same domain
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KevinMarks also, I hotlinked a lot of stuff on epeus, which is my own fault
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aaronpk so externally referenced images will still be externally referenced
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KevinMarks gotcha
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KevinMarks omg it's pulling all the comments feeds
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aaronpk like "i have this old wordpress site that i want to keep online don't want to keep maintaining wordpress"
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aaronpk and
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aaronpk s/wordpress/rails
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KevinMarks in this case blogger
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KevinMarks 2198 files for my blogger blog
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KevinMarks oh wow, and copies of all the posts in the tag and month folders
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KevinMarks which makes a kind of sense
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KevinMarks the comment feeds are a bit odd
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KevinMarks ah, and it doesn't make URLs relative, which I suppose is fair enough
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KevinMarks given the use case
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KevinMarks or rtaehr ti does or images, but not for urls in saved pages
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aaronpk yeah it does very little munging of the HTML since it's creating a snapshot that will be dropped into place
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KevinMarks right, but if I wanted to do a 'how my site looked up until I redesigned' archive I'd have to mung all the urls
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KevinMarks hm, looks like it didn't liek fonts embedded via CSS
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tantek @font-face?
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@tomwiththeweath on the plane home trying out http://miklb.github.io/jekyll-indieweb/ software for running my blog (twitter.com/_/status/726119997051801602)
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KevinMarks this file http://www.kevinmarks.com/cmserif/cmun-serif.css
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aaronpk hm, i thought i was following url() calls in css files
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aaronpk that might be a bug then
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KevinMarks Processing: http://www.kevinmarks.com/cmserif/%27cmunrm.ttf%27 404 Not Found
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KevinMarks looks like the single quotes faield
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aaronpk oh
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aaronpk easy fix then
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aaronpk wow i must not have had any quoted url values in the sites i was archiving
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notenoughneon.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+244) "/* Considerations */" (view diff)
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@voxpelli @tomwiththeweath @miklb All you need to do is to register on my site + set "webmentions" to "yes" in your config: http://miklb.github.io/jekyll-indieweb/2016/04/10/welcome-to-jekyll-indieweb.html :) (twitter.com/_/status/726123959419285504)
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@tomwiththeweath @voxpelli @miklb looking forward to testing webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/726123173909946368)
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@miklb @voxpelli @tomwiththeweath Indeed! Don’t hesitate to ping me with any questions. Still some rough edges on styling on webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/726122112843407361)
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@tomwiththeweath RT @voxpelli @tomwiththeweath Nice! @miklb is testing both my Webmention and alpha Micropub endpoint with that one, so lots to try out eventually :) (twitter.com/_/status/726121984023617536)
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@voxpelli @tomwiththeweath Nice! @miklb is testing both my Webmention and alpha Micropub endpoint with that one, so lots to try out eventually :) (twitter.com/_/status/726121680842678272)
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@releaseteam RT @tomwiththeweath on the plane home trying out http://miklb.github.io/jekyll-indieweb/ software for running my blog (twitter.com/_/status/726120579066011648)
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miklb holy notifications Batman
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tantek Every tweet you make, Loqi is watching you
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kylewm bret: you thinking of switching off Jekyll?
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bret oh god yes
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kylewm Neat
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notenoughneon.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+176) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add myself to examples" (view diff)
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kylewm We've missed you around these parts!
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voxpelli miklb: the new starter theme for Jekyll really feels to lower the threshold for people to get started, great!
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bret i'm sorry :(
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voxpelli bret: sorry to hear you're switching away from jekyll :(
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kylewm Nothing to apologize for!
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bret I'm trying to figure out a better balance now that I'm working full time
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kylewm I'm going back to working full time soon. Will be an adjustment
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kylewm s/full time//
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: I'm going back to working  soon. Will be an adjustment
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kylewm :)
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miklb voxpelli yes, I'm happy to see someone give it a shot.
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bret i also got involved with trying to keep PDXnode meet up alive in town which totally drained me
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bret but I found some more organizers for that so I'm hoping to step back from that
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bret voxpelli: I don't know a whole lot of ruby, so its not really the best choice for me anymore
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tantek bret - I'm curious, what's the motivation for the PDXnode meetup and keeping it "alive"?
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voxpelli bret: I can understand that, I know no Ruby at all :/ that's somewhat the reason why I'm so stubbornly extending Jekyll through microservices
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voxpelli ran a nodejs-meetup in Malmö, but shut it down almost a year ago due to changing focus in local community and organizer group
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bret its though organizing, specially because it rapidly turns into something of a chore pretty quickly for a lot of people
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bret having people in the community who gravitate to that kind of work is is a blessing heh
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notenoughneon.com edited /Neonblog (-4) "update article" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html I'll generate it again in an hour and it will be sent out at 2pm.
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notenoughneon.com edited /User:Notenoughneon.com (+6) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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tantek hmm no photos
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gRegorLove Fixing the u-url
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gRegorLove It's pointing to eventbrite
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tantek weird
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tantek on /Events?
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gRegorLove Yeah. Because we only added the wiki event page for it day-of. I didn't change the mf2 at that time
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tantek now the question is does the wiki event page itself have h-event or does it even need it?
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tantek KevinMarks: are there any better photo(s) from your IIW session(s)?
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gRegorLove No, it just needs u-photo
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tantek !tell shaners little over an hour to post a photo from HWC LA/SM before the newsletter gets sent out
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek gRegorLove: well it has u-photo
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miklb voxpelli btw, how did you see he was using that theme? You follow him on Twitter already?
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KevinMarks there's one of me demoing
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tantek but it's on the default h-entry for the page
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gRegorLove Yes
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tantek KevinMarks: that's on the wiki already I think
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tantek KevinMarks: did you take any photos of the participants/attendees
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tantek ?
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/lewisha/status/725430997211176960
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@lewisha Not to meta @benwerd @erinjo. We're missing you but @kevinmarks holding down the @withknown fort #iiw [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/725430997211176960)
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voxpelli miklb: loqi ;) but was following him as well so I recognized him then he showed up in the logs
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Loqi woot!
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gRegorLove I can't seem to figure out how to add a u-url to a [[wiki link]]
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KevinMarks not at the day before one
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KevinMarks I was showing text posts
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miklb heh. I hadn't looked at the scroll back.
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tantek hey that's a good one too
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gRegorLove Got it
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+49) "/* April */ add u-url to wiki event page" (view diff)
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miklb needs to figure out how to display OwnYourGram posts in Jekyll
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snarfed first 24h of bridgy FB reactions, found >1k and sent webmentions for >200
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snarfed woo
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-04-26-iiw (+321) "/* Photos */ add second photo" (view diff)
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voxpelli miklb: check line 10 to 24 here: https://github.com/voxpelli/voxpelli.github.com/blob/master/_includes/post-content.html#L10 :)
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tantek that's amazing snarfed
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tantek KevinMarks: could you add links to your IIW notes to this section? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-26-iiw#Session_Notes
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miklb voxpelli++
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gRegorLove Wat: http://indiewebcamp.com/User%3AOutput.jsbin.com_qicowafebe
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme may be the only recipient who renders them as reactions so far, ie not as replies
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Loqi voxpelli has 73 karma
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tantek aaronpk: should probably blacklist jsbin.com from the indieauth logins for indiewebcamp
alexhartley joined the channel
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2016-04-26-iiw (+79) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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aaronpk hah yeah
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aaronpk snarfed: whoa cool! I want to try!
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snarfed aaronpk: go for it! you already have a few on your site
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aaronpk what does the html/mf2 look like for a Facebook reaction?
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snarfed it's a reacji
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snarfed (that name tho :( )
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snarfed aaronpk: https://brid.gy/facebook/11500459#responses
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kylewm ?qicowafebe
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miklb voxpelli I forget about the page.variables and being able to use them as conditionals
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kylewm gRegorLove: that was dym_cx testing anonymous wiki login
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gRegorLove I thought it might be them :)
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aaronpk snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 221 karma
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aaronpk docs++
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Loqi docs has 1 karma
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snarfed wants to rename /reacji => /reactions
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ben_thatmustbeme reactions sounds like just a general response though
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: kylewm left you a message 14 hours, 20 minutes ago: hey there's a stray </div> on line 73 of your homepage (should be a </a>) that means I'm not getting your posts in woodwind :( http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-28/line/1461907673451
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gRegorLove The missing definitions should show up when /this-week is regenerated. I added missing periods.
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aaronpk omg hahaha I have a bunch of emoji comments now
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Alternatives
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snarfed slowly backs away
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aaronpk "reactions" is a general term but I like "emoji responses" instead of reacji
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snarfed the industry has pretty clearly settled on "reactions" meaning emoji responses
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snarfed and not anything else
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snarfed fwiw
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ben_thatmustbeme whichever, i've already said reacji, and poopji plenty enough
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016-04-27-homebrew-website-club (+8) "u-photo, so /this-week can pick it up" (view diff)
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kylewm Slack calls them emoji reactions from what i can tell
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ben_thatmustbeme what does FB call them?
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kylewm GitHub "reactions"
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kylewm FB also reactions
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kylewm http://www.wired.com/2016/02/facebook-reactions-totally-redesigned-like-button/
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Loqi Skip Article Header. Skip to: Start of Article.
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tantek in both cases, they are not strictly emoji, merely an intersection of a few
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kylewm true!
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aaronpk I guess slack is the only one that actually used emoji
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tantek and since FB decided to generalize their existing "like" into "reactions", our pre-existing definition stands
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aaronpk although you can upload your own images and then they aren't technically emoji anymore right?
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kylewm what does Buzzfeed call the things like "WTF" "LOL" "Gross"
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: fixed that bad closing tag
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tantek what is a reaction?
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/reaction
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 326 karma
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kylewm Buzzfeed calls those Reactions also, they are definitely not emoji
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kylewm thanks ben_thatmustbeme!
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tantek or I thought it did. hmm needs a more explicit reaction
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, slack uses emoji and images
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tantek s/reaction/definition
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Loqi tantek meant to say: or I thought it did. hmm needs a more explicit definition
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ben_thatmustbeme as you can create you own custom ones with icons
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ben_thatmustbeme realistically they are all images, not emoji characters
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tantek ok - time for y'all bringing up these real world examples / usages of "reactions" to document them on their specific silo pages
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tantek at least
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gRegorLove Interesting dive into emoji here: https://eev.ee/blog/2016/04/12/apple-did-not-invent-emoji/
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tantek what is Buzzfeed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Buzzfeed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K5
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tantek gRegorLove: I believe that's cited on /emoji already, if not, please add it
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gRegorLove Aha, so it is
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tantek I'll cogitate on https://indiewebcamp.com/responses#Post_Types a bit to see if I can come up with a suitable definition for "reaction" that incorporates our past usage and recent silo implementations
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kylewm tantek: is it maybe more valuable to documetn them on /reactions#Silo_Examples?
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tantek kylewm: no because that's not what that page means currently
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tantek that page needs a more intensive rethink / rewrite, while figuring out what to do with the existing content on it
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tantek there's interesting / useful history there that's worth keeping
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gRegorLove Buzzfeed is a meme, news, and entertainment site.
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loqi.me created /Buzzfeed (+76) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-29/line/1461959655538 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gregorlove.com edited /Buzzfeed (+22) "link" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /poopji (+68) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme" (view diff)
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voxpelli interesting regarding the custom emojis at Slack, so reacji is more of an "image"-response than an emoji response I guess? then it goes hand in hand with the sticker/animated-gif replies that Facebook Messenger uses as well
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kylewm tantek: /reactions is short but pretty much describes what we're talking about imho? Like, Dislike, LGTM, LOL, etc.
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snarfed.org edited /reacji (+70) "granary" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme i agree that these are really far more than just emoji, people can gather any replies they want really
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tantek kylewm: no it is broader that what were talking about right now
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tantek that is /reactions has a definition that is broader than what's being discussed here in the channel
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@jadeinteractive Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for #WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/jadeinteractive/status/726135304386666496/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/726135304386666496)
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voxpelli kylewm: /reactions is a subset of /responses
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tantek reposts, bookmarks, quotation, invitation are broader
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tantek voxpelli: that's true but insufficient
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tantek also summarized here: https://indiewebcamp.com/responses#Post_Types
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tantek that list of "reactions" goes beyond what the silos appear to be settling on
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tantek hence there is a difference of definition currently
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kylewm tantek: ahh misunderstanding is because i was looking at /reaction rather than /reactions :P
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tantek kylewm - yeah hence some more major wiki page rewriting is needed
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snarfed tantek: you're right that reactions has a page and definition (likes + reposts + rsvps + ...), but in practice i rarely hear people use it as that, here or elsewhere
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voxpelli have we documented sticker/image responses? would be interesting to look into where the line between sticker/image responses and reacji are. When does it become a reacji instead?
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tantek snarfed, agreed, and that's my point, need to think about how to update ours based on recent silo uses
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snarfed cool, sgtm
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tantek which also means a need to rethink how "responses" as a whole are segmented
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tantek I'm thinking of introducing a third subset of responses, follow-ups
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tantek follow-ups would include things like repost, bookmark, quotation, invitation
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tantek and I'm thinking of moving RSVP to being a form of reply
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tantek that would leave reactions as like / favorite, reacji
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snarfed do we really need all these umbrella and semi-umbrella terms?
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KartikPrabhu same question from me ^
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aaronpk why do we need to call it follow-up?
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tantek snarfed, we do, because we've had confusion trying to talk about either the general or the specific concepts in the past
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aaronpk that sounds confusing
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tantek and people used different terms to mean the same thing, and the same term to mean different things
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snarfed i'm not convinced. we have responses (or maybe interactions) as the catch-all, and then we have the individual types
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tantek and we got nowhere in lots of discussions
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snarfed i'm not sure we need any more than that
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voxpelli like / favorite is sometimes kind of a bookmark as well, at least on eg. Twitter
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aaronpk hierarchy--
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Loqi hierarchy has -2 karma
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tantek snarfed, you just made the point that there are "reactions"
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snarfed yes. i think they're the same thing as reacji, and that they're effectively a single type, like repost, reply, etc
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tantek voxpelli: I agree it used to be that way on twitter with the star but now that they've switched to heart - I bet it's no longer used like that
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snarfed wonders how he got himself into a terminology debate
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gRegorLove Heh. My previous comments here https://indiewebcamp.com/responses#Responses are now invalid due to wiki redirects being put back in place.
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tantek reacji are strictly speaking a resonse with a single emoji
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tantek not the same as a like as it were
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voxpelli tantek: I certainly do to a degree, although more restrictively to not imply endorsement wrongfully
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kylewm -1 on conflating like and bookmark
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kylewm based on the Like plugin for Known :P
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tantek kylewm: agreed - their use is quite different, especially when labeled as such in UIs
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tantek not going to let 1% edge case uses dictate definitions
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voxpelli kylewm: favorite / "starring" and bookmark certainly isn't the same thing, but they do have some crossover and can on certain occupations certainly mean the same thing
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kylewm yes definitely
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kylewm if you're only tool is a fav button, then people will use it for bookmarking
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KevinMarks see http://www.kevinmarks.com/notinourstars.html for twitter style reacji
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Loqi Not in our Stars 2015-11-08
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kylewm your*
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sknebel Github stars are another example
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KevinMarks gillmor gang time
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tantek kylewm, voxpelli I'm less and less convinced of the start -> bookmark assertion. they're not searchable like bookmarks (typically) are, they often disappear into an uniterable list, etc.
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gRegorLove I like "responses" as the overall term, still.
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tantek s/start/star
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Loqi tantek meant to say: kylewm, voxpelli I'm less and less convinced of the star -> bookmark assertion. they're not searchable like bookmarks (typically) are, they often disappear into an uniterable list, etc.
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voxpelli tantek: on GitHub they are very much searchable :)
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tantek gRegorLove: yes, responses are what we settled on (instead of interactions) after a lot of debate
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voxpelli https://github.com/stars
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tantek voxpelli: nowhere else
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tantek github does not call them favorites either
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gRegorLove "or interactions" according to /responses
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tantek what are stars?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "stars" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K7
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tantek what is a star?
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Loqi A favorite is a common webaction on many silos (like Flickr, Twitter), typically visually indicated with a star symbol that fills in with a color when activated (pink, orange). A favorite is similar to but somewhat different from a like https://indiewebcamp.com/star
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tantek do github stars mean favorites?
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voxpelli it's kind of undefined what they mean
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KevinMarks they mean 'notify me about this'
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tantek what does their alt text say?
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voxpelli but yeah, favorite is probably the closest thing
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tantek or any other UI aspects related to them?
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voxpelli "Star"
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kylewm KevinMarks: that's "watch" right? i don't think starring something changes whether i get notifications about it
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tantek gRegorLove: yes, that "or interactions" I added to help deliberately transition uses of "interactions" to "responses"
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gRegorLove GH star serves as a bookmark of projects you're interested in / ranking popularity of the project
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gRegorLove imo
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tantek voxpelli: feel free to add Github's use of star (and note about searching) to https://indiewebcamp.com/star#Silo_Examples
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gRegorLove GH watch gives you notifications
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tantek gRegorLove: same same ^^^
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KevinMarks ah, right
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voxpelli gRegorLove: but also as a like and almost as a share :P it's the only way to share a project on GitHub
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gRegorLove Share how?
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sknebel If you follow somebody on github you see when they star something
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gRegorLove I guess there's the stream of "[user] starred [repo]"
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voxpelli gRegorLove: if you follow me and I star a project then you will see that I starred it and the creator of the project will see that I starred it
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tantek snarfed, aaronpk we have to give these things (sets) explicit names so that when we're talking about a specific set of them we know which set we are talking about - because there are different sets in terms of what shows up in UI, how they interact etc.
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gRegorLove Gotcha
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tantek plus in many cases they already have different names and just need refined definitions
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miklb intended use not always indicative of practical use
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gRegorLove What is watch?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "watch" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K8
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tantek miklb, unless it's a non-trivial practical use, such odd uses are more academic than worthy of practical discussion
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voxpelli gRegorLove: /follow ?
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ben_thatmustbeme fixed my reacji UI a little https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/4/29/1/
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] Thanks to an update of brid.gy, now reactions on FB get backfed to my site as well. YAY!
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ben_thatmustbeme bit nicer to actually see the name
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tantek watch is /follow
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loqi.me created /watch (+19) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-29/line/1461960862911 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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snarfed tantek: eh. i understand the argument, i'm just not convinced those (sub)sets are so widely used, or matter much.
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tantek snarfed, which is why we document their usage
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snarfed if we use certain techniques (eg collapsing) for some types and not others, maybe we just refer to the techniques themselves for now
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snarfed sure
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tantek like reacji is a term, and reaction is a term, outside of indiewebcamp
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snarfed right, and i'd propose we merge them :P
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tantek so it's futile to say you're not convinced, doesn't matter, they're used wide enough outside that they exist
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voxpelli snarfed: -1 on merging reacji and reaction
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tantek but they're used differently so it makes sense to document as such
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gregorlove.com edited /GitHub (+164) "started Features section" (view diff)
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snarfed again, i don't think "reactions" is a set of types, i think it's a single type, and basically the same thing as reacji
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aaronpk alright who's making a diagram showing the hierarchy of terms
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snarfed some silos only offer a subset of emojis as reactions, but otherwise i think they're equivalent
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voxpelli snarfed: tantek: to me reacji is more a UI concept similar to facepile than a reactions concept in itself
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kylewm.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:buzzfeed-reactions-2016-04-29.png]]""
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tantek snarfed, it's not, since the "fixed subset" vs. "any emoji" is a very different experience
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kylewm.com edited /Buzzfeed (+388) (view diff)
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snarfed i disagree, but understood
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gRegorLove aaronpk: not it
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tantek since fixed subset is something you choose from a limited menu, vs. you can *type* any emoji for a reacji
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tantek very different UX and sense of what it means
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kylewm.com edited /Buzzfeed (+54) "/* Reactions */" (view diff)
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snarfed understood
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snarfed we can agree to disagree :P'
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voxpelli the definition of reacji is basically "a reaction with content conisting purely of an emoji (or maybe image)"
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tantek it was lazy to call what Path and now Facebook do "reacji"
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tantek and imprecise
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voxpelli and then one makes a reacji-pile of it in the UI just like one makes a facepile of other raction types
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tantek and proves my point that we needed separate terms anyway, since FB is calling them reactions
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snarfed i'm out of terminology energy, i'll follow you all wherever
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tantek voxpelli: not true re: definition of reacji, it does strictly imply emoji
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tantek where does the "maybe image" come from?
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aaronpk on slack you can upload custom images
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aaronpk and use them along with the other emoji
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voxpelli tantek: Slack's reactjis supports arbitrary images
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tantek and they still call them reacji?
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snarfed reactions
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voxpelli they make no difference between standard and custom emojis and even provide 10-20 custom emojis by default
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snarfed i think we're the only community that calls anything "reacji" on an ongoing basis :P
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gRegorLove Slack is always showing an image, regardless, not an emoji character.
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tantek like you could upload your own facial expressions and use them as reacji?!?
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aaronpk absolutely
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voxpelli custom emojis are pretty core to the Slack culture
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tantek voxpelli: where is this "core" documented?
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snarfed we use them heavily at work
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tantek so far I've only seen emoji reacji on Slack
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aaronpk i'm sure there are plenty of Medium posts about it :P
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tantek I'm just disagreeing with assertion of "core" if someone hasn't documented it yet
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gRegorLove Slack emoji: <span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(https://a.slack-edge.com/e4cee/img/emoji_2016_02_06/sheet_apple_64_indexed_256colors.png);background-position:7.5% 12.5%;background-size:4100%" title="white_check_mark">:white_check_mark:</span>
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aaronpk if my slack channels were public i could provide lots of screenshots
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tantek sounds more like "advanced/experimental"
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aaronpk no, definitely core to slack culture
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tantek and no one has written about it?
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kylewm the Slack page does have a screenshot of someone calling them reacji
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tantek even with all the hype around Slack?
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tantek I find that unlikely
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aaronpk i'm sure someone has written about it
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snarfed kylewm: maybe so! once. but i doubt ongoing :P
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tantek snarfed, you think Slack themselves changed their terminology?
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tantek I'm going to ask some friends that work there
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snarfed tantek: no, i doubt they ever officially called their feature reacji
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kylewm yeah "reacji" is an unfortunate mix of silly sounding and kinda technical/plumbing centric :)
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snarfed i expect a few people called it that a few times internally, maybe externally, unofficially
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[kevinmarks] :tek:: :eyeroll:
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gRegorLove Is there a question about custom Slack emoji not being documented? https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/206870177-Creating-custom-emoji
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aaronpk https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/206870317-Emoji-reactions
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tantek snarfed, no, Slack employees referred to the feature as "reacji" in in-person conversations
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snarfed yes, i think that's what i said
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tantek I mean in practice they used the term reacji
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tantek that's official enough :P
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snarfed yes, i think that's what i said
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tantek not sure what you mean by "officially" then or why that's useful?
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snarfed no, official product terms are different than saying things in personal conversation
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kylewm I'd argue the latter is more meaningful :)
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tantek well if someone can get ahold of their product pitch they make to why companies should pay for slack, including list of features, perhaps that will answer it :P
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gRegorLove The hover prompt in Slack says "Add reaction"
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kylewm Adobe calls photoshoping an image "editing an image in Adobe Photoshop(TM)"
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snarfed kylewm: true! and i doubt any other community is consistently still using the term "reacji" today
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gRegorLove Can screenshot if desired
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tantek gRegorLove: definitely!
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gRegorLove What is Slack?
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voxpelli they have at least documented their latest concept, stolen from Facebook, the "Jumbomoji": https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and-emoticons
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Loqi Slack is a closed-source team communication tool similar to IRC but with expanding support for various types of content such as emoji polls, inline images, and attachments https://indiewebcamp.com/Slack
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tantek gRegorLove: we have a bigger problem
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voxpelli (A Jumbomoji is a post consisting of a single emoji that is then presented slightly larger)
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tantek still no photos on https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html
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tantek and Loqi claimed they'd be regenerated at 13:00 PDT
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tantek jumbomoji?!?
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tantek ok fine
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kylewm also I noticed a big disadvantage to using emoji for reactions -- 😬 conveys wildly different emotions on different platforms
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tantek what is a jumbomoji?
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gRegorLove https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/202931348-Emoji-and-emoticons##Jumbomoji
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jumbomoji" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10K9
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sknebel twitch chat also has custom reaction/smileys whatever. Many channels have them as a subscriber-bonus
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tantek kylewm: perhaps emoji could be the alt-text of an reacji image
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tantek s/an /a
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voxpelli kylewm: probably a reason for an indieweb reacji to support custom emojis through images in additions to standard emojis, only way to know the correct reaction will be carried through
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tantek but seriously how do we fix the lack of photos on https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html ? aaronpk ?
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tantek got 30 min
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voxpelli hard thing about custom emojis in indieweb: how to know many people are posting the same emoji unless one starts tagging that emoji through alt-text or similar
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kylewm jumbomoji is dumb, jumboji sounds way better
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loqi.me created /jumbomoji (+71) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-29/line/1461961632375 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek aaronpk: Loqi does not appear to have regenerated https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek as he promised :(
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tantek gives Loqi a stern look
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kylewm whoops
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Loqi steps on the stern look
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tantek great kylewm now that defn is going into "this week" unless you fix it
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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kylewm hahaha
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gRegorLove tantek: I didn't see a regenerated notice. The updated dfns aren't on there either. Sure it regenerated?
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html
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tantek what the
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tantek and it got it wrong for HWC LA/SM
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tantek false positive
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-04-27-homebrew-website-club (-8) "no the header image is not a u-photo" (view diff)
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voxpelli snarfed: got an example of a Bridgy reacji?
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gRegorLove Sorry, thought the header photo was what you wanted in the newsletter
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aaronpk that wasn't me, that was all Loqi
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tantek no - photos of an event should only be photos actually taken at that event!
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kylewm.com edited /jumbomoji (+155) "actual definition, as best as I understand it" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /emoji (+108) "note: image emoji -> set alt-text" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I dunno what photos are taken where :)
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tantek gRegorLove: but you do recognize a header image?
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snarfed voxpelli: sure, https://snarfed.org/2016-04-17_17340#comment-2598469
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] https://snarfed.org/w/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/foot_eating-768x1024.jpg
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tantek.com edited /jumbomoji (+3) "-', linky" (view diff)
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voxpelli kylewm: I'll improve that definition
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tantek what is jumbomoji
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Loqi jumbomoji refers to very large emojis that appear on Slack messages; the term appears to be specific to Slack https://indiewebcamp.com/jumbomoji
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tantek FB messages with only emoji tend to be supersized as well
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snarfed voxpelli: also, collapsed: https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/4/28/1/
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] Been a crazy week, that's for sure. Alyssa has had it quite rough.
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KevinMarks is bridgy doing anything special for twitter reacji?
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snarfed KevinMarks: you mean single emoji character tweets? no
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tantek KevinMarks: Twitter doesn't support reacji yet
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snarfed "reacjweets" (shudder)
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snarfed hates the reacj* words
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KevinMarks emojitracker.com begs to differ
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tantek snarfed: what about jumanji?
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snarfed it's fine, doesn't match the reacj* glob :P
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KevinMarks billions of emoji there
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tantek KevinMarks: emojitracker is not restricted to single chars
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gRegorLove +1 snarfed
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tantek it's for any use of emoji in the text of a tweet
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snarfed KevinMarks: notably, bridgy doesn't strip the @username prefix from @-reply reacjweets
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tantek so does not apply as evidence for reacjweets
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snarfed shudder
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KevinMarks yes, and there are lots of single char ones there, and single char + link ones
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html
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KevinMarks I'd link some but they scroll past so fast I can't grab the links
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kodfabrik.se edited /jumbomoji (+52) "Adjusting definition" (view diff)
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tantek kevinmarks with or without @-names?
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aaronpk if someone fixes the photo i can regenerate it now
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aaronpk looks like i need to give Loqi a way to regen it from an IRC command
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tantek done
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tantek with the @-name, it's more than one character, thus not a reacji
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tantek without the @-name, it's not a response to anybody/anything, thus not a *re*acji
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tantek er, *reac*ji
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voxpelli snarfed: was thinking the mf2 source :)
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kylewm fwiw, reacjweet is better than tweeacji which I think Kevin suggested first
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kylewm KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 213 karma
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tantek why not tweeji while we're at it? it that better snarfed? :P
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snarfed voxpelli: ah. https://brid.gy/facebook/11500459#responses has a few
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snarfed funny
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tantek although perhaps that's for smaller reacji since jumbomoji are for larger ones
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tantek that reacji is so small it's twee
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voxpelli no one else agreeing that just as much as a Facepile is a design element popularized by eg. Facebook, then Reacji is a _design element_ popularized by Slack?
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tantek snarfed: I think you're safe, only one use of reacjweet on twitter: https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=reacjweet&src=typd
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voxpelli Slack saw how people reacted with emojis to other peoples posts and decided to improve the _presentation_ of that
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KevinMarks watch http://www.emojitracker.com/details/1F633 for a bit
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snarfed voxpelli++ i agree
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Loqi voxpelli has 74 karma
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tantek voxpelli: no because there's no description of the presentation
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tantek face*pile* is visually descriptive
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voxpelli reacji is just an *emoji*pile though?
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tantek on Slack you could call them voteji since they show counts :P
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KevinMarks eg https://twitter.com/Emonnechantel_/status/726149517402320897
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@Emonnechantel_ 😳 https://twitter.com/chiiijake/status/725836468262965248 (twitter.com/_/status/726149517402320897)
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tantek what is a reacjweet?
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Loqi A reacjweet is a reacji posted as a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/reacjweet
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tantek KevinMarks: ^^^ add your examples there
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voxpelli the voting part isn't necessary I think, one could decide merge to make reacji's more facepily as well
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voxpelli it's kind of odd actually to show an avatar for a repost and a like, but not to show an avatar for a reacji, one probably has to do one or the other – either do voting for everything or facepiles for everything
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KevinMarks when gillmor gang finishes
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tantek voxpelli: can't tell without more examples
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tantek for now, since Slack is the only "voting" like example, if you think their presentation is important, you have to take it as-is
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KevinMarks the badging I do would work for reacji too
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sknebel Github is also voting-like
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tantek were you to sketch/build your own way of summarizing reacji, then we could have a discussion about it :)
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voxpelli KevinMarks: yeah, both you and me actually use emojis already to badge our facepiles :)
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tantek sknebel: a-ha! two examples, perhaps take tight screenshots and compare to see if you can discern all the common elements
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voxpelli tantek: so yeah, both me and KevinMarks kind of already have emojis in our facepiles, I just need to parse out reacji-data so that we can badge the faces with those as well
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KevinMarks and mine need a bit more separation
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voxpelli the upside of Slacks presentation compared to a face-pile presentation is that Slacks presentation are also buttons, so one can easily add the same reaction (and that typically happens a lot)
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tantek looking forward to seeing your designs!
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KevinMarks hm, you could wrap them in web actions
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tantek aaronpk did you blacklist jsbin.com from iwc indieauth?
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tantek noting "New Community Members" in this-week
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tantek hmm, possibly herokuapp.com also
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voxpelli KevinMarks: yeah, would have to do that then + set up an indieconfig that would work ro reacji
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KevinMarks if people repost and like, should you show their face with 2 emoji?
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voxpelli tantek: herokuapp.com is where I host my webmention endpoint :P
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aaronpk can't right now
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tantek but you shouldn't be indieauthing with it!
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KevinMarks well, it's a reply with a specific char
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tantek it's not your identity
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I think that would make sense, either collapse on avatar or on action
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KevinMarks voxpelli: your webmention tool needs a better name
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voxpelli tantek: nope, as long as the blacklist doesn't go beyond indieauthing I'm cool :)
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I'm on it
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tantek.com edited /jumbomoji (-4) "no e.g. nor eg. in dfns" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli: that's all I was saying
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tantek what is Jumbomoji
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Loqi jumbomoji is Slack's term for presenting enlarged emoji's when a post contains nothing but emojis – a design concept popularized by Facebook Messenger https://indiewebcamp.com/jumbomoji
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notenoughneon.com edited /jam (+197) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I was pixels away form accidentally ordering a new premium domain name for $10k before I realized that it didn't cost the $55 I expected it to
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tantek whoa! which TLD?
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KevinMarks ouch
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snarfed i doubt we want to blacklist all of herokuapp.com. it's a good hosting service. people should be allowed to host their personal sites on it
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tantek wait, .ouch is a thing?
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voxpelli tantek: three letter domain on .tech
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KevinMarks hm https://flow.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/welcome-to-microsoft-flow/
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tantek snarfed, let's blacklist until we have a legit example show up and ask why it's not working
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tantek so far we have a non-example
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KevinMarks I was about to suggest using my flowpast.com domain for it, when I saw that
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tantek thus we should adapt accordingly
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tantek what is .tech?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for ".tech" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10KB
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snarfed one bad actor means we blacklist an entire service? seems draconian
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tantek voxpelli: ^^^ could you document that warning about $10k?!?
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snarfed let's blacklist the one bad actor
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tantek more like it highlights a silo we had not yet blacklisted
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voxpelli tantek: I think it applies across many of the new TLD:s, which is a bit dangerous as https://domainr.com/ gives great suggestions with them :P
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KevinMarks I also have meemoji.com which I need to do something with
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tantek what are short domains?
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Loqi short domains are commonly used on the IndieWeb for personal URL shortening, or clever domain hacks https://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains
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tantek voxpelli: ^^^ we've been documenting bad ones so far there
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tantek feel free to add to that existing page too
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kodfabrik.se edited /short-domains (+459) "/* Domains */ Adding warning about .tech and similar" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] :mojojojo:
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KevinMarks mojojojoemoji
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KevinMarks or emojojojojoji
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/726159125579620352/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/726159125579620352)
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aaronpk snarfed: it's not about blacklisting a service as a hosting provider, it's about the ID
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aaronpk sure use heroku, but point your own domain to it
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snarfed aaronpk: right, but some people might use a herokuapp.com subdomain as their id for a while
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snarfed like tumblr, blogspot, hosted known etc
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aaronpk not to log in to the wiki they won't
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aaronpk current blacklist is github.io, wordpress.com, blogspot.com, livejournal.com
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snarfed sure we encourage them to get their own domain, but it's nice to have a warm welcome
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snarfed why?
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aaronpk having your own domain is step 1
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snarfed so it's a value/policy we're intentionally choosing?
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snarfed ok
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aaronpk even if you don't do any other indiewebcamp related things, we encourage people to have their own domain because that's where data and identity ownership starts
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aaronpk and just to clarify, this blacklist is on wiki logins, not on indieauth.com
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snarfed ok
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KevinMarks it is a bit tricky as it does require them to spend $10/year
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tantek.com edited /jumbomoji (-1) "no ' for plurals" (view diff)
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@kylewmahan @benwerd Google rankings tend to love indieweb stuff. I bet we publish differently than they expect a typical site to (twitter.com/_/status/726177226706681856)
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tantek well no kidding. our pages are smaller, faster, and better marked up than the bloated cesspool spiral that the "corporate" web is diving into
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tantek wow I just got the most awesome warning message in Twitter on an "older" Safari: You are on Twitter Mobile because you are using an old version of Safari.
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tantek IT IS SO FAST
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Might add tilde.club to that blacklist. I logged in with that quite a while ago.
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rrix tantek: i almost exclusively use twitter mobile web for this reason.
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tantek rrix I'm now considering changing my autolinker to automatically link to mobile.twitter for any @-name or twitter.com status permalink
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[kevinmarks] Shame that m.foursquare.com stopped working
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kylewm tilde.club is pretty indie, categorically different than tumblr et al
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snarfed but still not your own domain, which was the key point
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rrix thats not a bad idea at all, tantek
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snarfed seems like something you might want to let your viewers decide? rather than decide for them?
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kylewm I like the tilde.club spirit of like knowing your sysadmin/person who owns the domain
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kylewm even if it's not quite the same of you owning the domain
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tantek snarfed, I think some amount of policy decision is inevitable in an autolinker - just have to be deliberate about why
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[kevinmarks] For @ names you could link to the intent page that has hCard
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tantek e.g. I have a few domains whitelisted as auto-HTTPS
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tantek KevinMarks: I was just thinking that! Should I pop them up too?
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tantek (target=twitter-profile or something
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tantek )
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tantek I need to fix that anyway, shaners filed an issue about h-x-username making it sound like a microformat in progress / experiment which it isn't really
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tantek he made the point that anything "microformatty" (not sure if he said that word in particular) in my markup in particular is something he was paying extra attention to (thus others may) as something to copy
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tantek forgot to ask barnabywalters if he cared
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[kevinmarks] If you made it an h-card, and link to the intent?
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tantek an @-name is insufficient to make an h-card by itself
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tantek hence why barnabywalters and I came up with h-x-username
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tantek I might use a vendor prefix though instead of x
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tantek or library prefix in this case I suppose. h-cassis-
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gRegorLove tantek: Related, I noticed the microformats/test suite has an 'h-as-note' test based on your notes
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kylewm kill it with fire!
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tantek sigh
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tantek I feel like there's a lesson to be learned in here somewhere