#indiewebcamp 2016-06-01

2016-06-01 UTC
tantek and [benatwork] joined the channel
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[benatwork] on the internet, no-one knows you’re a bot
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tantek hello [botatwork]
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[benatwork] beep boop.
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snarfed [benatwork]: hey! just fyi, i just noticed your bridgy fb has been off for a while. :P https://brid.gy/facebook/36802236
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[benatwork] ha
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[benatwork] thanks
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KartikPrabhu [botatwork]: what is the meaning of life?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/meaning_of_life
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KartikPrabhu damn you Loqi!
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Loqi :)
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ben_thatmustbeme Lol
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KevinMarks We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
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GWG KevinMarks, amen.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: good luck!
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+17) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Not sure what I'm going to work on for IWS Create day. Hopefully something will inspire me
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tantek gRegorLove: usually the challenge is too many things inspire people at the end of day 1
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gRegorLove Yeah. The last two years I came with solid goals. This will be an interesting switch-up for me
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: one idea I have been wanting to implement -- enable offline reading of posts using service worker
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tantek that would be cool
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gRegorLove Interesting
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tantek what is service worker?
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Loqi service workers are scripts that run in the background, separate from tabs with the site open, and are commonly used for offline functionality and push notifications https://indiewebcamp.com/service_worker
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KartikPrabhu specially useful for long form articles, download and cache them on network and then read later in the bus/train etc...
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tantek what is offline
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Loqi offline is anytime you're not online and connected to the internet https://indiewebcamp.com/offline
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tantek what is offline first?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "offline first" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mf
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gRegorLove Ah, so you mean caching other people's posts? Or your own?
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KartikPrabhu I mean the following: when you visit my site, it allows you to cache some article offline. then later you can read my article without network
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KartikPrabhu can also be implemented for /reader though
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tantek.com edited /service_worker (+373) "add Brainstorming / Offline Reading of Posts" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu could also be useful in micropub clients for saving drafts of posts offline
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gRegorLove Cool
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KartikPrabhu so you can write your post without connection, then sync/publish when you get back the network
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KartikPrabhu has not investigated feasability of these ideas so... grain of salt
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's exactly what Jake built in his offline / progressive web apps talk at Google I/O
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gRegorLove adactio's post on service workers made them seem not too bad, depending how familiar you are with JS
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tantek but more as an emoji "chat" app than as a blog posting app
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah I have heard of that talk. I was thinking more in the indieweb uses direction
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tantek found it
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tantek http://tantek.com/2016/140/t2/offlinefirst-best-of-google-io
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Watched #IO16 live video today; @jaffathecake’s #offlinefirst talk was the best talk of Google IO 2016 I’ve seen. Well done.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: the direction doesn't matter - the talk teaches techniques that can be used for either / any
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes of course!
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tantek anyway, watch that talk - best talk of Google I/O IMO
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KartikPrabhu is preping own thesis talk for next week so after taht
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kartikprabhu.com edited /service_worker (+176) "/* Offline Reading of Posts */ add micropub thought" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+492) "/* Interests */ IndieWeb Summit 2016 Ideas" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme my emoji / like hover bit is getting pushed to some extremes (for me)
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/5/31/1/
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] We close on our new house today!!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: uh, how are you distinguishing between the black heart and the red heart?
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tantek or is it "heart" and "heart suit" ?
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tantek ❤ 25 ❤️ 2
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ben_thatmustbeme for me they both show up as red. I need to look in to it closer, but basically its because FB has their default like as a thumbs up, but then they have "heart"
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ben_thatmustbeme i translate likes to hearts (as well as twitter likes/hearts/stars/clovers/bluemoons/wheveryouwanttocallthem
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to look at what bridgy is actually sending me
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tantek yes now that FB has both like = thumbs up, and love = heart everything is confused again
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tantek just when we were close to like/heart convergence, FB goes and diverges
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, thats why i'm just not fighting it, its just different emojis that people are reacting with, and since there is more than one heart emoji, there is not actual avoiding the problem
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tantek I figure why not contribute to like inflation.
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tantek collapse all the likes/loves/hearts into one
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tantek basically, upgrade FB's thumbs to hearts
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tantek as way of forcing convergence on their set
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ben_thatmustbeme there are two different reaction emoji on facebook, you lose the distinction of a like vs a love
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ben_thatmustbeme and then you get yourself in to the case of having to mandate exactly which emoji fall under which category
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ben_thatmustbeme there are a lot of different smilies... are you going to go and collapse them all?
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tantek that's my point about collapsing
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tantek deliberate conflation of like/love into just heart
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ben_thatmustbeme but you are taking away meaning from the poster. Intention. I chose heart to be the translation of "like" which is a little confusing now but still keeps the original person's intentions seperate. If you start collapsing you are basically losing the point to emoji reactions. Why not just collapse them all back to just likes
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: I like how your likes are "liked [url] because" followed by your reasoning.
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KartikPrabhu thanks! :)
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KartikPrabhu I also have "replied to [url] with " :)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you could also argue that collapsing likes across silos / indieweb / reacji is also taking away meaning from the poster
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tantek e.g. a heart like of a tweet likely carries different meaning / intention than a thumbs up like from FB
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tantek so you've already made a lossy meaning collapsing decision in your current implementation
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tantek my point is to simply take that one step further
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tantek not *all* the way (collapse all to likes)
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tantek anyway, it's a spectrum, I don't know what the precise right answer is, or if there even is one
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tantek your intuition is likely better here since you've implemented, and I'm only thinking about it from how it looks and feels
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: the inspiration for that was text first design
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i don't think there is a right answer
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KartikPrabhu it is a spectrum just like threaded comments
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ben_thatmustbeme and yes, as soon as you convert a "like/heart" in the traditional sense you are changing the meaning of those
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: Nice. I've only just ventured into likes recently. I'm showing a star glyph and the URL only so far.
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ben_thatmustbeme but i want to preserve the meaning of actual reactions, and i care less about changing the meaning of generic likes
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: yeah that is how I started, so some of the older ones don't have a "reasoning text"
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KartikPrabhu should use this form of likes/replies in the Atom converted from h-feed
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tantek pretty sure I'm doing that already in my Atom feed file
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tantek providing the text fall back
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KartikPrabhu yes possibly. I just haven't gotten around to doing that in hfeed2atom
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KartikPrabhu it is good practice for sure
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KevinMarks1 they're adding a new black heart emoji to make up for making it red
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KevinMarks1 what is Most Unexceptional
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Most Unexceptional" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mg
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KevinMarks1 is this some meme I missed?
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KevinMarks1 ah crap
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Loqi uhoh
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KevinMarks1 losing my laptop re-enabled the downworthy plugin
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KevinMarks1 so 'best' became 'most unexceptional'
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kylewm heheh, and what's up with all these articles about snake people?
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KevinMarks1 oho http://archive.upcoming.org/event/176052/
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KevinMarks1 needs some mf2
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gRegorLove Trying to figure out what my profile URL was, to see if my event history was saved
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KevinMarks1 if you can remember an event
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KevinMarks1 lol http://archive.upcoming.org/event/back-to-the-future-ii-5390660
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KevinMarks1 also http://archive.upcoming.org/event/pub-standards-100-148676
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gRegorLove Found it, thanks to machine tags on my Flickr
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Loqi [indieweb] "Some clarification to the webmentions discussion" by Peter Shaw https://shawfactor.com/2013/08/12/some-clarification-to-the-webmentions-discussion/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Thoughts on extending webmentions" by Peter Shaw https://shawfactor.com/2013/08/06/thoughts-on-extending-webmentions/
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KevinMarks1 do those anticipate salmentions?
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KevinMarks1 or indie-actions?
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@ChrisAldrich @mjane_h It dawns on me that you might find the #IndieWeb Summit this weekend in your back yard to be interesting http://indiewebcamp.com/2016 (twitter.com/_/status/737873456004497408)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@mjane_h It dawns on me that you might find the #IndieWeb Summit this weekend in your back yard to be interesting http://indiewebcamp.com/2016" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/mjane_h-it-dawns-on-me-that-you-might-find-the
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@linux_everyday https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday (twitter.com/_/status/737885714084466688)
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@jkphl While @iwontsignuphere leaves for IndieWeb Summit Portland today, I'm showing solidarity by wearing my new shirt. :) https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/737889406485434372/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/737889406485434372)
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kylewm hey Teespring, where the heck is my shirt? You working on making sure all of Europe and Australia has theirs first?
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kylewm also that's awesome that Julie is coming to IWS!
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KartikPrabhu Teespring is done!
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@iwontsignuphere @jkphl whoop! @indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/737894509871288324/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/737894509871288324)
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@jkphl @iwontsignuphere Safe travels! +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/737894669267415040)
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@KanalNuernberg jkphl iwontsignuphere Safe travels! +indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/737894669267415040 https://twitter.com/KanalNuernberg/status/737895379962855428/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/737895379962855428)
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gRegorLove (and Washington state. Sorry, kylewm :)
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kylewm actually slightly concerned, it looks like they were handed over to USPS about 20mi from here about a week ago
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KartikPrabhu i predict that kylewm will get his t-shirt tomorrow
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kylewm 24 hours until kylewm's t-shirt
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 6/1 11:41pm (#5839)
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cweiske 10 minute until loqi kicks itself out of the channel
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 5/31 11:52pm (#5840)
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KartikPrabhu rofl
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: you should avoid self-referential paradoxes
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cweiske 5 billion years until the sun burns out
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Loqi brain fart
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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cweiske 5000 million years until the sun burns out
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Loqi sorry, I can't do that
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cweiske 5000000 thousand years until the sun burns out
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Loqi that doesn't make sense
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: you are getting owned right now!
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cweiske just trying to make sense of a non-visible user interface
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kylewm Loqi++ for brain fart
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Loqi Loqi has 399 karma
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KartikPrabhu bots are the future, right Loqi?
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Loqi :)
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cweiske.de created /Loqi++ (+9) "Created page with "Test site"" (view diff)
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cweiske I guess loqi does not take commands from itself
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KartikPrabhu alright, I'm out! keep indieweb-ing, excelsior!
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gRegorLove Hahah
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gRegorLove Loqi, what's the largest number?
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boffosocko.com edited /Known (+0) "/* How to use with Mobile */ Changed to preexisting page with more detail" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /Posting_From_Mobile_Devices (-105) "created redirect" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Posting_from_mobile_devices (+236) "generic chatbot" (view diff)
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Loqi loqi kicks itself out of the channel
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Loqi Countdown set by cweiske on 5/31/16 at 11:42pm
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cweiske in 3 minutes /quit bye bye
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cweiske 3 minutes until /quit bye bye
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 6/1 1:24am (#5841)
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cweiske.de edited /Loqi (+82) "/* Commands and Queries */" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+24) "/* Current setup & practices */ POSSE to Tumblr" (view diff)
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Loqi /quit bye bye
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cweiske ah dang
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colintedford uh oh
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colintedford what is an archive?
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Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indiewebcamp.com/archive
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colintedford ok
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Pierre-O @aaronpk is it a good example of a successful community with a nice landing page: http://www.holacracy.org/ ?
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colintedford Hey Loqi, who is cweiske?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Cweiske.de
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cweiske 0 minutes until test
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 6/1 1:37am (#5842)
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Loqi test
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cweiske 0 minutes until test\ntest
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 6/1 1:38am (#5843)
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colintedford OK, I was confused b/c Loqi didn't report my last wiki edit, but i think it's b/c I marked it as "minor".
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cweiske yes
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Loqi test\ntest
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colintedford Gives Loqi a minor edit
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Loqi investigates the minor edit
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cweiske gives Loqi a newn%13line
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Loqi investigates the newn%13line
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cweiske gives Loqi a new\n%13line
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Loqi hearts the new\n%13line
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colintedford gives Loqi a new line of summer wear
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Loqi enjoys the new line of summer wear
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colintedford :)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com () "(-960) /* Done */ pruned least relevant" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com () "(-675) /* Pipe Dreams */ -> Relation to personal log & "wiki"" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com () "(-1793) /* Noise filter */ rm old stuff." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+87) "/* Silo issues */ on hold" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-457) "/* Post-WordPress markup */ rm" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] Tantek & ben_thatmustbeme: RE: likes/hearts/emoji convo (http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-31/line/1464748218705) - You might appreciate this research on miscommunication that was recently published about emoji meanings: http://grouplens.org/blog/investigating-the-potential-for-miscommunication-using-emoji/
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 5/28 at 7:53am: re: "my issue is usually remembering the huge list of microformats to include", would love to chat about that to better understand it some time, hopefully to help make it easier. Context: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-20/line/1463806033428 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-28/line/1464447178592
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 5/28 at 9:18am: re: "Eventually the wiki will have too much in it for the common person to browse it and be able to get value for the types of choices they'd like to make.", it can be improved, e.g. like Wikipedia. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-28/line/1464452328673
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Loqi Investigating the Potential for Miscommunication Using Emoji
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adactio.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (-14) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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@hugoroyd ☕ Is there a way to use android Share functions for a Known instance? #Known #indieweb https://hugoroy.eu/2016/05/is-there-a-way-to-use-android-share-functions-for (twitter.com/_/status/737950051167830017)
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@RikMende @Journalism2ls hello there, following you on Twitter and Facebook I noticed you push tweets to Facebook. Are you aware of #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/737957907799638016)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell Pierre-O, tantek, davidascher, ShaneHudson all set, you can rejoin that channel now
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ShaneHudson I was in the channel by accident heh, when I first set up my IRC stuff :)
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Loqi ShaneHudson: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 22 minutes ago: all set, you can rejoin that channel now http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464780194712
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Loqi [indieweb] "Yes this article drive you through one of the best way to do it #indieweb from mobile : http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sharing-from-the-indieweb-on-mobile-android-with-apps-and" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/yes-this-article-drive-you-through-one-of-the-best
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@RikMende @ChrisAldrich Yes this article drive you through one of the best way to do it #indieweb from mobile : … https://www.rmendes.net/2016/yes-this-article-drive-you-through-one-of-the-best (twitter.com/_/status/737973821810958336)
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ben_thatmustbeme UI question
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/5/31/4/
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ben_thatmustbeme TJ
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] We have a new house!
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ben_thatmustbeme Hover over the hearts and you'll see the drop down
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cweiske much better than listing them all in a long list that's visible by default
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ben_thatmustbeme Right now I have profile links as image and permalink of like as name.... does it make sense to switch those?
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cweiske I'd say yes
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cweiske or add a single character link after the name linking to the post itself
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cweiske [img] Username â­§
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske: I had thought of that as well. More of looking for thoughts on why. One way or another
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cweiske I'd expect to be taken to the user's page when I click on the name or the image
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cweiske and having the action post linked feels right, but is often not that important for "normal use"
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cweiske thus the single character link
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ben_thatmustbeme But it clutters things more
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cweiske make the char greyish (not so visible)
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@RikMende Wow @withknown now let's you pick a "homepage" from one of the existing pages #indieweb https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/738010080478519297/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738010080478519297)
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@kishorags RT @kevinmarks http://mashable.com/2016/05/31/facebook-end-of-websites/ Facebook's design head says you only use 7 apps and 4 are his. Design for his silo. Or join the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738010682638110720)
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aaronpk good morning!
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rMdes afternoon !
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rMdes good*
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning aaronpk
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aaronpk hopes ownyourgram is continuing to work for people
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Loqi [indieweb] "Wow @withknown now let's you pick a "homepage" from one of the existing pages #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/wow-withknown-now-lets-you-pick-a-homepage-from-one
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rMdes aaronpk, just testing now...the last picture i got back on my site is from 10 days ago
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aaronpk you could have been one of the unlucky ones for whom the realtime api was intermittently working
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aaronpk but that won't matter anymore
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rMdes I had two authorization request on my indiepub accounts page
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rMdes removed both and reconnected once
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rMdes will see if it lands on my site :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Hugo, I'd written up some details specifically for Known a while back: http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sharing-from-the-indieweb-on-mobile-android-with-apps-and there's a roughly equivalent set at the camp: http://indiewebcamp.com/Posting_from_mobile_devices" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/hugo-id-written-up-some-details-specifically-for-known-a
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Loqi [indieweb] "The US government is taking your Facebook data. But it doesn't stop there - New Statesman" http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNF1Z0YjX2m3Dx2mkKpCIL6SidKryg&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=43982153730810&ei=ZvxOV-gHwaLyAZGOrqgM&url=http://www.newstatesman.com/business/2013/08/us-government-taking-your-facebook-data-it-doesnt-stop-there
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Jeena Interesting HWC today, although only one person came so had we more indieweb discussions than most times when others who aren't really interested in that matter attended
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Jeena And I learned that people who RSVP yes on meetup.com don't necessarily intend to show up
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Jeena And I need to add that people should/can take their own computers with them, because then I can help them to start something right here.
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snarfed holy crap, colintedford backfeeds manually? that's dedication. http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Colintedford.com##Backfeed
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snarfed aaronpk: how's instagram scraping looking so far?
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tantek snarfed, yeah I backfeed manually for some blog posts (i.e. substantial commentary replies/posts)
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Loqi tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 5 hours, 33 minutes ago: all set, you can rejoin that channel now http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464780194712
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aaronpk snarfed: so far so good! it's already sent several photos to people and everything looks the same as before!
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snarfed yay! congrats!
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi yay!
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Loqi aaronpk has 149 karma
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gRegorLove Good morning, indiewebcamp!
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PFMurph hello!
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ben_thatmustbeme morning gRegorLove
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[kevinmarks] Instagram was crashing when I took a photo the other day (on android N) I'll try now
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aaronpk not my fault :P
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gRegorLove ben_thatmustbeme: Not sure about the reacji permalinks, but the text of the names could be lighter for better contrast in the hover thingy
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks gRegorLove
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gRegorLove I was looking at kylwm's likes the other day and it looks like he puts the permalink in a <data>
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[kevinmarks] Still crashes when I take a photo. Works if I use gallery
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tantek I'm likely going to put my u-uid in a data
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tantek surrounding my PSCs
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gRegorLove What is PSC?
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Loqi A permashortcitation (or permashortid), abbreviated as PSC is a short non-hyperlinked citation to a post permalink, in contrast to a permashortlink which does hyperlink to a post http://indiewebcamp.com/PSC
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[kevinmarks] Do I need to log into ownyourgram.com again, or is it a deferred crawl now?
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aaronpk no need to log in again
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aaronpk it runs every hour at *:30
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Loqi [indieweb] "For example, @WordPress might add microformats2" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/for-example-wordpress-might-add-microformats2-schemaorg-options-to-encourage
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@ChrisAldrich For example, @WordPress might add microformats2 & http://schema.org options to encourage developers to fill those niches #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738057432346165248)
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boffosocko.com edited /WordPress (+810) "Added Independent Publisher theme with mf2 support" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] snarfed: I was impressed by Conintedford too and was going to make some suggestions about easier backfeed on WordPress, but it appears he's moving away from the platform.
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snarfed let a thousand flowers bloom
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Jeena hehe gRegorLove Steve T is always fun :D
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[kevinmarks] Ah, right. The nice thing about the web hook was the low latency
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[kevinmarks] I'll check in a couple of minutes
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[kevinmarks] And there we are http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/lilies
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Lilies
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Loqi [indieweb] "Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/congrats-raamdev-for-supporting-microformats2-better-indieweb-comments-in-wordpress
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@ChrisAldrich Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2 & better #IndieWeb comments in @WordPress Independent Publisher theme https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher (twitter.com/_/status/738062878834446336)
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tantek whoa cool!
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tantek !tell Jeena did you get a photo of the two of you in Göteborg to add to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb [chrisaldrich] I'd suggest adding that theme to WP getting started page too.
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tantek petermolnar: when you get a chance, can you start /2016/indieweb for your proposal(s) to switch to using "(#)indieweb(.org)" instead of "(#)indiewebcamp(.com)" for general indieweb purposes?
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Jeena tantek, no I forgot the photo sadly
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[chrisaldrich] miklb: will do
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message 6 minutes ago: did you get a photo of the two of you in Göteborg to add to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#Photos ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464803000213
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miklb [chrisaldrich] I set up a WP site earlier this week, and suggesting/emphasizing mf2 support within a theme was an area that I see could use improvement.
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aaronpk that's a nice looking theme
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tantek which?
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gRegorLove tantek: Did you see your upcoming.org archive?
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aaronpk independent publisher
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tantek gRegorLove: http://tantek.com/2016/153/t1/upcoming-profile-sidebar
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Removing the <s>…</s> tags from the link to my Upcoming.org/user/6623 profile in my sidebar.
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miklb agreed
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snarfed1 hey aaronpk just out of curiosity, did you bother submitting OYG to instagram for approval?
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aaronpk nope
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aaronpk i knew i would have to rename it before they would even consider it
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snarfed1 heh fair
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aaronpk apps can't have "gram" in the name
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boffosocko.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+342) "/* Themes */ added Independent Publisher" (view diff)
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aaronpk i didn't want to go to the trouble of getting a new domain and changing the name and such only for the hope that they will approve it
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tantek !tell Pierre-o re: holacracy. Nope. Not a *community*, nor any actual evidence of *success* (more self-asserted marketing claims). That is however a typical example of the current fashion of sexy product site with big blocks of different color background you scroll through to approximate pages.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek this is great http://grouplens.org/blog/investigating-the-potential-for-miscommunication-using-emoji/ and deserves to be on at least /reacji#Issues
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Loqi Investigating the Potential for Miscommunication Using Emoji
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tantek Yay HWC Brighton is happening!
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Loqi giggles
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tantek !tell adactio be sure to take a photo and add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club#Photos !
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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[chrisaldrich] Independent Publisher is a really beautiful/modern WP theme somewhat in the vein of Medium.com with some flexible customizability. It also has the benefit of a custom comments.php template so that it better orders/displays comments, webmentions, pingbacks/trackbacks. I suspect that having more theme options like this will help out other generation 2 users.
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[kylewm] tantek: relevant to Pierre-O (I think?), I always thought http://unhosted.org/ was an appealing landing page
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ for those sweet reacji dropdowns! Please add to /reacji#IndieWeb_Examples!
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 148 karma
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adactio tantek: Already took a photo :-) https://adactio.com/notes/10747
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Hacking away at Homebrew Website Club Brighton.
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tantek aaronpk: can we add "Homebrew Website Club" to the Loqi superfeedr feed?
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tantek so like adactio's photo post would show up here automatically? :D
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aaronpk sure!
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tantek kylewm: nice example (unhosted), much cleaner and more serious looking than all the other marketing fluff ephemera out there. can you add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/homepage ?
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i already am listed there
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ben_thatmustbeme just improving UI a little
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes, asking you to add to your listing, your UI improvement(s) with date(s), and even better, screenshots
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ben_thatmustbeme screenshots would be really important, since the changes take effect on the old posts.
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll have to do that when i get time, i'm at work really right now
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tantek !tell cweiske if you really feel like stress-testing Loqi, perhaps consider doing so in #indiechat (offtopic chatter :) ) since that doesn't really have anything to do with indiewebcamp per se - thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm.com edited /2016/homepage (+149) "add an Examples section with unhosted.org, and add self as participant" (view diff)
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snarfed1 unhosted++ good people there
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Loqi unhosted has 3 karma
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@kevinmarks If Chrome Android launches PWA's slightly scrolled down, it solves the problem: https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/progressive-web-apps-and-url-bars-374f6bbdaf2f#.9hikqafg3 #indieweb @adactio @slightlylate (twitter.com/_/status/738069316004773888)
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Loqi [indieweb] "If Chrome Android launches PWA's slightly scrolled down, it solves the problem: https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/progressive-web-apps-and-url-bars-374f6bbdaf2f#.9hikqafg3 #indieweb @adactio @slightlylate" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/if-chrome-android-launches-pwas-slightly-scrolled-down-it-solves
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[kylewm] PWA too close to PUA (pick-up artist) for my taste
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: did you ever get mobilepub to run from the home screen icon?
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tantek kylewm: huh, perhaps that's a motivation to re-acronym PUA to mean something else just to mediajam the google results ;)
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KevinMarks1 yes, I restarted the phone them chrome was happy again
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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ben_thatmustbeme although odd
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ben_thatmustbeme also, does it give you syndicate-to options?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh wow, looking at the micropub spec it has changed a LOT
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i need to go through all that
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KevinMarks1 It didn't, but I'll check again - do I need to reauth?
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: it's changed a little, many times, very slowly :P
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aaronpk but almost nothing about simple create posts has changed
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: No, i have no idea which version of it known uses, so don't worry, i'll be updating it eventually
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ben_thatmustbeme cool thing is that it just updates on its own as you use it
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@indiewebcamp RT @tomwiththeweath looking forward to indieweb summit in portland this weekend! http://2016.indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/738071527069868032)
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@indiewebcamp RT @ChrisAldrich Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2 & better #IndieWeb comments in @WordPress Independent Publisher theme https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher (twitter.com/_/status/738071786516975616)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Standards are documentation, not legislation. Tantek talks about incubating new ones: http://tantek.com/2016/152/b1/running-for-w3c-advisory-board-again#incubating%20ideas%20and%20proposals #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/standards-are-documentation-not-legislation-tantek-talks-about-incubating-new
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tantek ok fine KevinMarks I will add that frag
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked “Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown” by Chris Aldrich" https://kylewm.com/2016/06/like-of-chris-aldrich-sharing-from-the-indieweb-on
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KevinMarks It's a fragmention
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tantek forgot that he had a fragmentions script running as well
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[kevinmarks] Well, if you run with js off on your own site
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KevinMarks I wonder if I can export that medium post into useful html
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@fakebaldur RT @kevinmarks If Chrome Android launches PWA's slightly scrolled down, it solves the problem: https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/progressive-web-apps-and-url-bars-374f6bbdaf2f#.9hikqafg3 #indieweb @adactio @slightlylate (twitter.com/_/status/738080029012316160)
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KevinMarks (posting giant android screengrabs is a bit mean)
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GWG Afternoon
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@FEEZig RT @ChrisAldrich Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2 & better #IndieWeb comments in @WordPress Independent Publisher theme https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher (twitter.com/_/status/738080927667097601)
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@adriennefriend @kylewmahan are you at PyCon? Or will you be at indieweb thing? (twitter.com/_/status/738081310170742785)
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cleverdevil snarfed: left an update on the instagram-to-atom issue, thanks for taking a look
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cleverdevil tl;dr - seems like its mostly issues with Reader Self (https://readerself.com) at this point.
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snarfed cleverdevil: ack. thanks!
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aaronpk i'm a little disappointed that indieweb summit is already this weekend and i haven't had more time to work on the photo album support for p3k that i had sketched out in germany
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cleverdevil sure thing :)
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cleverdevil I just made the switch to readerself from another self-hosted aggregator with less of a community
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cleverdevil hoping to avoid issues like this
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cleverdevil and sure enough, I run into problems :)
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cleverdevil that said, overall, readerself is pretty solid
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aaronpk does it support microformats feeds?
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cleverdevil dunno
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cleverdevil haven't tried it :)
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tantek cleverdevil, yeah, definitely try and see if supports h-feed
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tantek I believe KartikPrabhu's site has h-feed only
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cleverdevil mostly I just exported my opml from my prior platform and imported it (mostly) successfully.
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cleverdevil goes to try
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cleverdevil so, it imported, but so far I don't see any actual posts.
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cleverdevil looks closer.
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gRegorLove What is Reader Self?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Reader Self" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mh
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cleverdevil so it uses http://simplepie.org to do its RSS/Atom parsing.
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gRegorLove Ah, well it *could* support h-feed then, if they update to 1.4 and add php-mf2
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cleverdevil and now that I have fully refreshed, it does seem to have pulled posts from KartikPrabhu's feed
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gRegorLove What is SimplePie?
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Loqi SimplePie is a feed parser library written in PHP, which supports h-feed parsing as of version 1.4 https://indiewebcamp.com/SimplePie
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cleverdevil let me see what version they are using
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aaronpk orly
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gRegorLove I think Kartik has an Atom feed generated from mf2
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cleverdevil 1.4-dev
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gRegorLove Yeah, he has Atom for homepage and Atom for Notes
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cleverdevil but, I see no reference to "h-feed" in the source at all.
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gRegorLove Yeah, Reader Self is just picking up his Atom feeds I'm guessing
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cleverdevil mhm.
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tantek looks for another h-feed
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tantek cleverdevil: here you go http://tantek.com/favelets/ :D
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cleverdevil nice!
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cleverdevil can also set up a readerself instance for anyone who wants to play
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cleverdevil the joys of running a cloud ;)
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cleverdevil http://share.cleverdevil.io/KKN8UK1XhV.png
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tantek cleverdevil: it's served as text/html so the parser is supposed to handle that
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cleverdevil yup.
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tantek (i.e. nothing about that URL says "treat as draconian XML and fail"
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tantek )
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cleverdevil I am guessing Reader Self doesn't know anything about h-feed.
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aaronpk well if it's using simplepie, and simplepie supports h-feed, then it should be a minor PR to them :)
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cleverdevil indeed.
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cleverdevil just need to find some bandwidth!
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cleverdevil oh, and you know, dusting off my PHP skills from 15 years ago.
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cleverdevil chuckles.
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aaronpk 15 years ago? better to forget all of that and start over :P
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cleverdevil I'm good enough to take other people's starting points and generate things like - https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Reviews
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cleverdevil aaronpk, yeah I noticed that when working on my Known plugins.
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cleverdevil PHP has come a *looooong* way.
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cleverdevil (its a good thing, too)
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gRegorLove cleverdevil: Are you coming to the Summit this weekend?
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cleverdevil sadly, I can't :(
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gRegorLove Bummer
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gRegorLove I might be trying to switch from StartSSL to Lets Encrypt on Dreamhost at the Summit.
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gRegorLove SimplePie only supports h-feed if php-mf2 is also included
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gRegorLove Still a simple PR if Reader Self is using composer, but might need some convincing of the devs too
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tantek cleverdevil: can you remote participate?
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cleverdevil tantek: maybe?
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cleverdevil is there a way to do that?
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hm1 TWiG in 5 minutes
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KevinMarks seem to be too many of me
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KevinMarks 4 minutes until TWiG
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 6/1 1:30pm (#5844)
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KevinMarks apart from HWC and IWC, anything else to trumpet?
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aaronpk cleverdevil: we'll be streaming the intros and demos, and at least two of the rooms will have google hangouts sessions
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KevinMarks wapo.com/pwa is rather good. Mind you, a lot of that goodness is them not having ads, but the AMP/PWA combo works
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ben_thatmustbeme been a while since i've watched TWiG actually
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tantek KevinMarks: Webmention CR
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tantek and IndieWeb Summit
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aaronpk Webmention CR means we're actively looking for people to implement it and provide feedback and submit an implementation report
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tantek and there's an awesome test suite at webmention.rocks
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aaronpk hm i should do a blog post
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tantek definitely.
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ben_thatmustbeme oh yeah, webmention CR, def
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gRegorLove cleverdevil: And IRC as always. We've had people work on stuff on create day and then someoen on-site can demo for you.
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tantek what is remote participation?
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Loqi remote participation refers to good practices for enabling people to take part in IndieWebCamp events at a different location and collaboration across locations https://indiewebcamp.com/remote_participation
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tantek what is IndieWeb Summit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWeb Summit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mi
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tantek IndieWeb Summit is /2016
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loqi.me created /IndieWeb_Summit (+17) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464814037394 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is IndieWeb Summit remote participation?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWeb Summit remote participation" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mj
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tantek IndieWeb Summit remote participation is /2016/Guest_List#Remote_Participants
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loqi.me created /IndieWeb_Summit_remote_participation (+48) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464814053477 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek cleverdevil: ^^^ add yourself to /2016/Guest_List#Remote_Participants
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aaronparecki.com edited /remote_participation (+308) "add microphone" (view diff)
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willnorris aaronpk, kylewm: so after I get both of you to add jsonp support to your live microformat parsers :-\ ..... I'm realizing now the proper way to do this would have been to add a CORS header so that it works with the new-ish window.fetch API. Any chance of ya'll doing that? (Can certainly wait until this weekend). If you're comfortable with it, adding "Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *" to responses would be
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willnorris the easiest thing (but also wide open to anyone hitting your endpoints... not sure if that's a concern for you)
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willnorris s/get/got/
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aaronpk hah sure. i was kind of wondering why you didn't ask that in the first place :)
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willnorris not really thinking :)
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aaronpk i always assume other people know more about front-end javascript than myself
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willnorris also haven't done frontend devlepment in quite a long time
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ben_thatmustbeme i just always assume people aren't going to add the CORS header
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ben_thatmustbeme So i always end up working around it
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willnorris ben_thatmustbeme: yeah, there's that too :)
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snarfed double checks that granary and bridgy set CORS
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@calum_ryan Here's how I added geolocation and live weather data linked to my posts – https://calumryan.com/learning/publishing-weather-in-posts/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738114403120386048)
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aaronpk that's so cool
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: Calum Ryan on Twitter: &#8220;Here&#8217;s how I added geolocation and live weather data linked to my posts – https://t.co/lXqagKUaDW #indieweb&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14094-2/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Publishing weather in posts" https://calumryan.com/learning/publishing-weather-in-posts/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/01/8/)
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tantek.com edited /performance (+104) "more" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Kevinmarks.com is h-feed only
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[kevinmarks] Webmention rocks links to the cr, right?
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calumryan.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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willnorris so I temporarily got around the CORS problem by running everything through a reverse proxy on my server the time being :) Now pure javascript with no dependencies: http://willnorris.net/mf2compare/?url=http://tantek.com/ (still some flexbox weirdness not sizing the sections evenly)
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@posthuman Can't possibly compare to drawbacks of being Fish in a Barrel (FB). Nope. Don't care. @indiewebcamp or bust #tytlive https://twitter.com/TheYoungTurks/status/738117955016228864 (twitter.com/_/status/738126243644776453)
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pfefferle willnorris the link does not work
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willnorris how so? what are you seeing?
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pfefferle nothing :)
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pfefferle only the form
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willnorris maybe querystring needs to be encoded? http://willnorris.net/mf2compare/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F
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pfefferle that does not work either
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pfefferle but I get a JS type error
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willnorris ah
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willnorris what browser? (I've tested latest chrome and firefox) what's the error?
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aaronpk huh, searchParams is not defined for me
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pfefferle willnorris TypeError: undefined is not an object (evaluating 'new URL(window.location).searchParams.get')
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aaronpk new URL(window.location).searchParams
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pfefferle chrome
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aaronpk chrome osx for me too
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willnorris bummer. was really hoping I could use that. maybe I'm no a new chrome build?
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willnorris ah, I'm on Chrome beta (version 51). dern
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pfefferle oh sorry, I am using safari
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willnorris alright, I'll have to find another way to parse the URL
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willnorris to be fair, https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/URL did warn that it was experimental :)
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@posthuman Can't possibly compare to drawbacks being Fish in a Barrel (FB). Nope. Don't care. @indiewebcamp or bust. #tytlive https://twitter.com/TheYoungTurks/status/738117955016228864 (twitter.com/_/status/738127473259479040)
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pfefferle willnorris https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLHyperlinkElementUtils/searchParams ;)
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pfefferle willnorris a bit hacky, but...
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tantek whoa pfefferle !!!
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tantek welcome back :D
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pfefferle hey tantek
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tantek waits for GWG to wake up :)
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pfefferle I finally got my internat running after 8 weeks
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tantek those darn internats
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tantek I stick with one level of NAT
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pfefferle oops
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pfefferle ;)
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pfefferle I meant internet
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snarfed willnorris: cors proxies are the best! eg https://crossorigin.me/
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[kylewm] tantek: kevinmarks: I don’t think I’ll make it over to Moz tonight. short week, trying to finish up stuff before Friday!
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[kevinmarks] That's a shame.
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[kevinmarks] No portland tonight?
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[kevinmarks] Can someone edit it out of the homepage
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[kevinmarks] As I'm about to send traffic
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[kevinmarks] Ok indiewebcamp.com and webmention.rocks plugged
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KevinMarks Also I made a parser for the BBC recipe website http://www.unmung.com/indiecard?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Ffood%2Frecipes%2Fsweet_onions_with_lentil_01078&html=&pretty=o
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KevinMarks So we could add that to Stacey's site
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willnorris pfefferle: that lists basically zero browser compatibility
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Loqi [indieweb] "Support Featured Image (and other common WordPress functionality) · Issue #24 · snarfed/wordpress-micropub https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/issues/24
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (-345) "-DC,LA,PDX" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "Brighton, Göteborg, San Francisco" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+81) "/* New York City 2 */ link to NYC2 event page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-2) "update HWC for next three weeks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (-446) "move May to past, dropping DC until we have confirmation of a future venue" (view diff)
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willnorris aaronpk, pfefferle: how about now? http://willnorris.net/mf2compare/?url=http://tantek.com/
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tantek willnorris: very cool!
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tantek willnorris: what do you think about a [x] Sort Keys option, since that shouldn't semantically change the JSON, but will make it easier to side-by-side compare
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[chrisaldrich] !tell GWG While on vacation, I ran across https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-crosspost/ which you might(?) find interesting/useful for code relating to editing/updating posts??
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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willnorris yeah, sorting keys, turning certain libraries on or off, reordering results so you can see certain ones side by side, using something like https://github.com/kpdecker/jsdiff to view diffs... all things that'd be great to do
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kylewm Because I don't know this stuff, is cors better than jsonp in this case because jsonp is basically an ugly hack?
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@kylewmahan @adriennefriend I'll be at the IndieWeb camp this weekend. Will you still be in PDX? (twitter.com/_/status/738155795108401154)
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willnorris kylewm: basically yes. jQuery makes it reasonable to work with by puttting a pretty veneer over it, but I was trying to get rid of the jQuery dependency
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willnorris and it's still just a pretty veneer over an ugly hack. CORS is a proper solution to dealing with the cross origin limitation
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kylewm I'm happy to add the headers... shouldn't possibly hurt anything since there's no session or login stuff going oh
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willnorris cool, thanks
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