#indiewebcamp 2016-06-02

2016-06-02 UTC
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tantek GWG, other WordPress folks, how common is class="entry-date" in WP themes, and is it consistently used for the published date?
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tantek wonders where he should check for examples
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tantek checks ma.tt
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tantek yup <time class="entry-date" datetime="2016-05-27T07:43:02+00:00">
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aaronpk maybe look specifically for class="entry-date" on a time attribute?
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aaronpk that seems like it would be high quality, not a lot of false positives
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tantek yeah
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tantek that's a good narrowing
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[kevinmarks] Interesting
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tantek I figure WordPress is a good dataset for "hentry" compat
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tantek they may be the biggest source of "hentry" on the web now
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[kevinmarks] This fits with the empirical backcompat expansion I was experimenting with for the recipes
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tantek KevinMarks: can you please document that in microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe-feedback ?
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tantek citations of the examples you found, plus a proposal for what classes/markup to interpret as what properties?
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tantek do they have class="hrecipe" as a root at least?
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tantek or is this a completely different cross-compat? or proprietary extraction?
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tantek backcompat means backwards compatible with a previous standard and how it was adopted in the market
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[kevinmarks] No, it was a proprietary extraction of a site that was threatened with closure
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tantek ah ok. still worth capturing, perhaps as "extraction"
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tantek hmm it looks like phpmf2 is not handling rel=bookmark per h-entry backcompat parsing
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tantek it should be turning it into u-url here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://klaustoon.wordpress.com/2016/04/13/numerus-klausus-26-robo-hunting/
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tantek looks like this earlier theme on klaustoon has class="post-date" and then visible Month, D, YYYY
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tantek and <h1 class="post-title"> instead of entry-title
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tantek and <div class="post-content"> instead of entry-content
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gRegorLove tantek: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/93 should fix rel-bookmark
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gRegorLove Don't think it's in a release yet
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tantek ok great
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tantek wow https://en.blog.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/field-notes-an-event-apart-boston-2016/ does not even have hentry - wonder how they did that since I *thought* hentry was added by WP Core. GWG?
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Could we get the test suite and other PRs merged for php-mf2 + release, or does barnaby usually do releases?
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gRegorLove Actually, just realized you're probably super busy with all the summit stuff, so no worries if not.
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gRegorLove hentry is in the WordPress default themes like Twenty Sixteen, etc, AFAIK
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gRegorLove I don't think core injects any HTML/attributes, unless it's changed quite a bit recently
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aaronpk Barnaby does the releases
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rrix I am at the homebrews club today! \o/
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GWG !tell tantek Very in a theme. It got copied a lot
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Loqi GWG: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 1 hour, 51 minutes ago: While on vacation, I ran across https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-crosspost/ which you might(?) find interesting/useful for code relating to editing/updating posts?? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464824571939
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Welcome to Homebrew Website Club - this month we have 3 meetings (twitter.com/_/status/738182852861435904)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Webmention is now a Candidate Recommendation for w3c which is kind of a big deal (twitter.com/_/status/738182967349088256)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we incubated and developed webmention in the indieweb community and brought it over to the SocialWG at w3c (twitter.com/_/status/738183152561197056)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we have 27 implementations of webmention already and mow w3c is calling for more: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/738183295641477120)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you have a webmention implementation, you can test it at https://webmention.rocks/ - both sending and receiving (twitter.com/_/status/738183433831223296)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: If you remeber PingBack, there was no test suite for that, so webmention is already better (twitter.com/_/status/738183598637998080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the other thing that webmention specifies is that you can update and delete comments and mentions too (twitter.com/_/status/738183722709700608)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: last week we added a new Homebrew Website Club in Nürnberg - adding to LA, DC, Göteborg, Portland and Brighton (twitter.com/_/status/738184090734759938)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Nürnberg has an amazing photographer @iwontsignuphere who took photos that look so professional (twitter.com/_/status/738184900264767488)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: and @iwontsignuphere also has a Nimslo camera that means she can make twitchgifs of people too (twitter.com/_/status/738185841693097984)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Nürnberg has an amazing photographer @iwontsignuphere who took photos that look so professional (twitter.com/_/status/738185925692391424)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: and @iwontsignuphere also has a Nimslo camera that means she can make twitchgifs of people too (twitter.com/_/status/738185930473869312)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp Summit this weekend has it's own site at http://2016.indieweb.org/ - it's $5 to attend or free if you indie RSVP (twitter.com/_/status/738186190264930304)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: apparently $5 is just enough to encourage people to code up RSVP support - look at Emma, Cassie, Kevin, Kyle, (twitter.com/_/status/738186712568979460)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: We may need a new RSVP value to mean 'remote attending Yes' -I'm worried I'm using a food slot (twitter.com/_/status/738186913656524801)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the most individual RSVP was at http://tilde.town/~vilmibm/index.html (twitter.com/_/status/738187202979627008)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we also have a travel assistance fund for under-represented people to come http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance (twitter.com/_/status/738187557540859904)
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@KitSeeborg I've felt that way. RT @kevinmarks #indieweb We may need a new RSVP value to mean 'remote attending Yes' -I'm worried I'm using a food slot (twitter.com/_/status/738187712709038081)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: you used to RSVP by adding yourself to the wiki page. Now it's a projects list if you want to say more http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/738187922227204096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there are 3 events happening in a row http://indiewebcamp.com/events Indiewebcamp, W3C Social Web and decentralisedweb (twitter.com/_/status/738188541092593664)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: part of decentralised Web is thinking about replacements for DNS and http (twitter.com/_/status/738188662500917249)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we assume domain names are a given; they are thinking about layers below what we're worrying about (twitter.com/_/status/738188812183044096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if they give us a new way to look up a site, we can still decide how to process it and connect it (twitter.com/_/status/738188925685145600)
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@linux_everyday https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday (twitter.com/_/status/738189589362446336)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: my hope with decentralised web is to make the composable versus substitable distinction to map ideas to us (twitter.com/_/status/738189696317161472)
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@handsonl1fe RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we assume domain names are a given; they are thinking about layers below what we're worrying about (twitter.com/_/status/738189823891148801)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: html is the one piece that is going to be very hard to displace (twitter.com/_/status/738189999024312321)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: content hashing and URLs are in tension, as what URLs point to are mutable. (twitter.com/_/status/738190625175179265)
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KartikPrabhu what is content hashing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "content hashing" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mk
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: anyone want to demonstrate anything they got working since the last time you were here (twitter.com/_/status/738190856952381440)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jfrndz: my site is https://jfrndz.com/ - I've been playing with a framework called Perfect (twitter.com/_/status/738191213032026112)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jfrndz: Perfect lets you write server-side apps in Swift - I built an IndieAuth handler in it to sign into my site (twitter.com/_/status/738191439847395328)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jfrndz: I my extend this to do private posting; RSVPing to the summit made me want to do private RSVPs (twitter.com/_/status/738191645343154177)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @cw: my site is at http://massless.org/ - I haven't touched it for a while. What's a good starter project? (twitter.com/_/status/738192241873801216)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jfrndz: setting up indieauth with rel=me links is a good first thing to do (twitter.com/_/status/738192352788025344)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you do that you can log into the wiki (twitter.com/_/status/738197553787834368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: today I took the strikethrough style off the link to my http://upcoming.org profile (twitter.com/_/status/738197700785672192)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: in the last 24 hours @andybaio the creator of upcoming restored all the archives at the original permalinks (twitter.com/_/status/738197840002945024)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: so http://archive.upcoming.org/user/6623 now maps to http://archive.upcoming.org/user/6623 - and all my events are back (twitter.com/_/status/738198052645818368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: our last upcoming event was a microformats dinner http://archive.upcoming.org/event/microformats-dinner-8119684 (twitter.com/_/status/738198292560019458)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there were also events in the then future like: http://archive.upcoming.org/event/back-to-the-future-ii-5390660 (twitter.com/_/status/738198456959926273)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: this is a huge feat that andy did - this is an indie site that was built from the ground up to preserve web data (twitter.com/_/status/738198759008538624)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I chose to wear my upcoming t-shirt today from the kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/waxpancake/the-return-of-upcomingorg (twitter.com/_/status/738198955910107136)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: as the community grows, we'll build more community sites like this - upcoming is an example (twitter.com/_/status/738199384714809346)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I wanted to show off https://ben.thatmustbe.me/mobilepub/ which is Ben's posting site for micropub that works offline (twitter.com/_/status/738199544651997186)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: andy's twitter is @waxpancake and @upcomingorg is the sites (twitter.com/_/status/738199840635670529)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you. (twitter.com/_/status/738200019459788800)
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@TempieLanehart RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you. (twitter.com/_/status/738200166805671936)
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@AdamHertz RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you. (twitter.com/_/status/738200578942066688)
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@raamdev RT @ChrisAldrich Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2 & better #IndieWeb comments in @WordPress Independent Publisher theme https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher (twitter.com/_/status/738202892864098304)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club 2016-06-01" http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738206556760637440)
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@rrrrrrrix RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738209422275547136)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@snarfed, no worries; I know you're certainly doing better/more important work in other quarters than this. Besides, I don't just hold my breath waiting" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/snarfed-no-worries-i-know-youre-certainly-doing-bettermore-important
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Loqi [indieweb] "Retweeted this tweet: Kevin Marks on Twitter: &#8220;Notes from tonight&#8217;s Homebrew Website Club San Francisco https://t.co/qZVgWQCv85 #indieweb&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14098-2/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Retweeted this tweet: Kevin Marks on Twitter: &#8220;Notes from tonight&#8217;s Homebrew Website Club San Francisco https://t.co/qZVgWQCv85 #indieweb&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14098-2/
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rrix I've got to start working through my ideas for a MicroPub server that creates static-site pages, like markdown or Org-mode entries.
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rrix I have been posting photos on to Instagram lately and it would be nice to backfeed them in to Arcology so that the files are properly archives.
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rrix Right now, if my Instagram account is closed, I lose a tonne of crappy phonephotos of the models I've been making
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miklb rrix I'm using voxpelli's micropub server that has some glue to publish to GitHub pages Jekyll. I've hooked it up to OYG
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@TechLifeWeb RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738217777488486400)
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rrix Ohhhh
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rrix oh oh, node-micropub-express
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rrix yeah, this looks good
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rrix I'm not sure how I forgot about this.
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rrix Gluing this to org-mode is going to be p easy
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rrix wire that up to https://github.com/mooz/org-js/blob/master/lib/org/parser.js
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rrix ah, wait that is html to org, lol. I guess I can write a micropub to org pretty easily though
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@DazeHub DazeHub is out! https://paper.li/DazeHub/1340329124 Stories via @mabb0tt @brady @sarawinge #indieweb #codecon (twitter.com/_/status/738228254834884608)
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@ChrisAldrich Yes: Yes: I'm going to remote attend IndieWebCamp Summit 2016, though I desperately wish I could be there in… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/yes-yes-im-going-to-remote-attend-indiewebcamp-summit-2016 (twitter.com/_/status/738242998392094720)
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boffosocko.com edited /2016/Guest_List (+657) "/* Remote Participants */ Chris Aldrich RSVP" (view diff)
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cweiske owncloud employee #6 leaves; http://morrisjobke.de/2016/05/31/Thanks-for-the-journey/
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Loqi cweiske: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 32 minutes ago: if you really feel like stress-testing Loqi, perhaps consider doing so in #indiechat (offtopic chatter :) ) since that doesn't really have anything to do with indiewebcamp per se - thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464804183818
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Loqi [indieweb] "@TechLifeWeb Not sure if you'd run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/LA" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/techlifeweb-not-sure-if-youd-run-across-it-yet-but
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@ChrisAldrich @TechLifeWeb Not sure if you'd run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/LA (twitter.com/_/status/738262469303361536)
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@cveira The latest Picks for Today!! http://paper.li/cveira?edition_id=43865ea0-2890-11e6-84dc-0cc47a0d15fd Thanks to @PowershellDSC @innoSNogues @PubNub #codecon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738265043339513856)
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@webrocker wordpress #indieweb tinkerers, can I turn off "get pingback/trackback notification" and still get webmentions or are these connected? (twitter.com/_/status/738265112595865600)
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we have 27 implementations of webmention already and mow w3c is calling for more: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/738265957588566017)
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you have a webmention implementation, you can test it at https://webmention.rocks/ - both sending and receiving (twitter.com/_/status/738266002316611584)
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp Summit this weekend has it's own site at http://2016.indieweb.org/ - it's $5 to attend or free if you indie RSVP (twitter.com/_/status/738266208332480513)
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the most individual RSVP was at http://tilde.town/~vilmibm/index.html (twitter.com/_/status/738266454064128002)
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there are 3 events happening in a row http://indiewebcamp.com/events Indiewebcamp, W3C Social Web and decentralisedweb (twitter.com/_/status/738266713288900608)
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@benwerd If you want to handroll a website but don't want to mess with servers, HyperDev sounds promising. http://joelonsoftware.com/items/2016/05/30.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738266791021936640)
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Loqi [indieweb] "If you want to handroll a website but don't want to mess with servers, HyperDev sounds promising. http://joelonsoftware.com/items/2016/05/30.html #indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/if-you-want-to-handroll-a-website-but-dont-want
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@ForbiddenMatrix RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: in the last 24 hours @andybaio the creator of upcoming restored all the archives at the original permalinks (twitter.com/_/status/738267167322345472)
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Loqi [indieweb] "pfefferle on "[Plugin: IndieWeb] Might be helpful to add at least some description"" by pfefferle https://wordpress.org/support/topic/might-be-helpful-to-add-at-least-some-description#post-8476018
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pfefferle !tell tantek there is a method in WP core that adds microformats(1) classes, but you don't have to use this method in your theme.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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pfefferle !tell willnorris now it works like a charm!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@pfefferle @webrocker good question... I am not sure... The Webmention plugin uses the disable pingbacks on the post level... (twitter.com/_/status/738274002012098560)
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@jkphl @pfefferle Sag mal, wäre nicht der https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day was für dich? Könnte professionellen Beistand brauchen. ;) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738276042855579648)
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@IndieWebCampDE Schon gehört? Am 22.6. gibt es einen #IndieWeb Hack Day in Nürnberg — ein Kompakt-IWC whd. der @openSUSE-Konferenz 👉 https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/738277250068418560)
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@IndieWebCampDE Und zum Warmwerden nächste Woche wieder einen Homebrew Website Club ebendort 👉 http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-08-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/738278065382559744)
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Loqi kylewm's t-shirt
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Loqi Countdown set by kylewm on 5/31/16 at 11:41pm
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Loqi TWiG
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Loqi Countdown set by KevinMarks on 6/1/16 at 1:26pm
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kylewm No dice on the shirts :'(
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "SimplePie 1.4.1 released" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-06-02-SimplePie_141_released
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[kevinmarks] Why did that 4 minute countdown just trigger 12 hours and 4 minutes later?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Scott, I love the concept of your bookmarklets and how they work!! I particularly like the way that WP blockquotes the original and copies over" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/scott-i-love-the-concept-of-your-bookmarklets-and-how
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Loqi [indieweb] "Rich Embeds for silos like Twitter might actually be somewhat useful when using post kinds "like" and "repost" as the Twitter card would then display" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/rich-embeds-for-silos-like-twitter-might-actually-be-somewhat
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Loqi [indieweb] "Embed for Tweets versus Blockquote (html/js) with Text? · Issue #10 · pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this/issues/10
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@RikMende Anyone at #HHconnect ever heard about #indieweb? If you're interested to talk about it (I'm just a participants… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/anyone-at-hhconnect-ever-heard-about-indieweb-if-youre-interested (twitter.com/_/status/738307331260219393)
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@dissolve333 Just keep making mobilepub nicer. I post much more now. #indieweb (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/6/2/10/) (twitter.com/_/status/738351634783178752)
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GWG Morning
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@scott_gruber @ChrisAldrich @TechLifeWeb hope to represent LA in PDX as a first timer, and then meet up the Homebrew LA crew. @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/738363041968852993)
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ben_thatmustbeme morning GWG
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GWG Thank you for not saying Good. My cab came at 4:30 to take me to the airport for my flight to Portland.
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GWG I was sound asleep as they came 12 hours early.\
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cweiske joys of 12 hour time standard
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Loqi [indieweb] "Conditionally adding a Bridgy publish link based on a tag. Sweet #indieweb goodness!" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14106-2/
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GWG The guy asked me for my address and number of people three times. I do not blame myself.
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GWG I just hope they come back.
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi tantek: GWG left you a message 13 hours, 11 minutes ago: Very in a theme. It got copied a lot http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464831262825
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Loqi tantek: pfefferle left you a message 7 hours, 16 minutes ago: there is a method in WP core that adds microformats(1) classes, but you don't have to use this method in your theme. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-02/line/1464852546918
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GWG tantek: Time grows short.
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tantek GWG, with every second
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GWG Between now and the Summit
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tantek GWG lots to do!
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GWG And pfefferle has popped up. Also a good thing.
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tantek GWG, yes, a very good thing!
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GWG tantek: I may be dead tired when I arrive, but I will be there with bells on(figurative ones)
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tantek congrats to KevinMarks and snarfed for getting talks at the decentralized web summit! http://www.decentralizedweb.net/schedule/
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GWG I was thinking of trying a WordPress session at the Summit. I know we attracted some people last year who were WordPress users
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tantek GWG - definitely - add it! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Session_Ideas
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@ediqoHQ RT @hvdsomp Paywalls in #scholcomm make using web standards very hard. Could being webby give competitive edge for #openaccess? https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/42 (twitter.com/_/status/738385392580370432)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/Sessions (+207) "/* Session Ideas */" (view diff)
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GWG Any thoughts on that, anyone?
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petermolnar there was a topic yesterday on fancy splash page vs. wiki and for generic indieweb, I don't think we need a one-page-thing; for WordPress, on the other side, this might be something very useful, considering the target audience of WP
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petermolnar and indiewebifying wordpress minisite
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petermolnar maybe worth mentioning in that session
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GWG petermolnar: Add to wiki?
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tantek petermolnar definitely add that to GWG's session proposal that he just added
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petermolnar.eu edited /2016/Sessions (+78) "/* WordPress */" (view diff)
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GWG My concern is having too much confusion about options in the WordPress space, despite options being a good thing.
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tantek options are only a good thing when people are really asking for them
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tantek options up front are usually a way to confuse people
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tantek better to pick what is *easiest* and most obvious defaults and provide those
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petermolnar tantek providing the option for options is essential; picking the most common default is a must; but WordPress recently made choices where disabling features require plugins instead of a built-in option
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petermolnar for example, I don't want embeds. When an upgrade introduces embeds, enable by default, sure, but keep the option to disable it, which WordPress hadn't done
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tantek petermolnar: huh that's pretty odd
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petermolnar let me find the usual argument for it
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tantek petermolnar: most importantly, the number of plugins to install and manage for making a WordPress site IndieWeb friendly needs to be greatly simplified
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tantek that's the problem of options I'm talking about
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petermolnar problem of choices then, not options :)
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tantek there needs to be a logical series of plugins for people to try and use, and each one needs to add significant user functionality that makes plugin seem "worth it"
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tantek that's the bigger problem to solve right now
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petermolnar https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/ -> "Decisions, not Options"
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petermolnar as for the indieweb plugins, I agree, we need to simplify that, with the least amount of plugins possible
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petermolnar however
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GWG The problem comes with individuality.
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GWG petermolnar and I both use WordPress, but our needs are different.
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GWG petermolnar has his own webmentions plugin.
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petermolnar there is also the unix approach: one plugin should do one thing, but do that right.
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GWG He records and posts his EXIF data on his pictures..
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petermolnar GWG WordPress _always_ extracts EXIF if it's present
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tantek no the unix approach is wrong for something so user-centric as WordPress
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GWG petermolnar: Most people don't display it
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GWG I use Post Kinds, because I wrote it to fit my needs. Other people also use it
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GWG snarfed and petermolnar don't, which is fine. It doesn't suit their needs.
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tantek GWG, the very fact that you are referring to a "webmentions" plugin is part of the problem - that doesn't mean anything from a user-perspective. Does it send webmentions? receive them? display them? all the above? For what post types? response types? etc.
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GWG But, how do you tell a new person...use it or not?
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petermolnar I believe my WordPress can be considered as a custom cms that is built on top of WordPress
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GWG tantek: I'm outlining that problem a bit at the moment.
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petermolnar so that's the worst possible thing to show an indieweb newcomer WordPress user
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petermolnar tantek the Unix approach is never wrong. Complicated it may seem sometimes, but every plugin will get bloated unless they focus on one thing only.
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ben_thatmustbeme so lets rephrase the conversation as, what would the ideal plugin set be? can we unify the multiple plugins with a few settings for both of your use cases?
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tantek petermolnar: that's a good point to make about your specific usage of WordPress - can you perhaps summarize your usage of WordPress like that near the top of your user page? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Petermolnar.eu
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tantek petermolnar: the fundamental problem with the unix approach is that it makes plumbing-centric assumptions (heck unix is all about the pipes and piping things)
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tantek whereas it is more important to have anything you install and manage be user-centric
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tantek feature-centric, not plumbing-centric
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GWG Trying to balance individual preference and global preference is what brought us to this point.
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GWG My solution is to try to make the pieces more modular, so you could swap things out if you wanted, but maintain the same core.
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ben_thatmustbeme trys to brainstorm a list of plugins that makes sense. PostKinds, okay, various indieweb types of posts. one for webmention send and receive, grouped under 'open commenting' or something, one for micropub along the lines of a 'posting apps support'
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GWG WordPress has the preference of removing user settings from Core, setting a sensible default, but allowing a plugin to act to disable/alter settings.
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Post Kinds does it as post meta. miklb asked recently why it isn't implemented as a custom post type in WordPress. snarfed just marks up his posts inside the post editor.
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GWG I admit the whole thing confuses people.
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tantek GWG, I think you underestimate how much most users just want to install and use
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tantek not fuss with customizing, adding markup inside posts etc.
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tantek they want the features to "just work"
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GWG But I'm stumped as to how to write something that can be installed and used, but also can be customized or disabled easily.
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tantek so postpone customizing
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tantek and disabling should just be a matter of uninstalling
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GWG I have two parallel efforts in that area.
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GWG 1. The decision to return functionality to the Indieweb plugin to achieve the Indiemark Identity Axes.
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GWG Axis.
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GWG And the Level 1 authentication.
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pfefferle GWG tantek that's why I try to avoid settings pages for my plugins... but that confuses people too...
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pfefferle https://wordpress.org/support/view/plugin-reviews/opengraph?filter=1
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tantek pfefferle: minimizing prefs is important too
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GWG pfefferle: But you can have the filters in place to make it easy for a third-party to add a setting as a plugin.
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GWG pfefferle: Do you have any thoughts on simplifying the confusion over the state of Indieweb in WordPress?
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GWG Webmentions are less useful without the Semantic Linkbacks code, for example, but most people don't realize that if they heard about webmentions and search the repository.
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GWG Is Post Kinds as I implemented it the ideal solution for different kinds of posts?
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pfefferle not really... as petermolnar mentioned, I like to keep plugins simple and fit only one need... but that results in a lot of plugins
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tantek maybe we need two different sets of plugins
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GWG pfefferle: I tried to address that in the Indieweb plugin by making the plugin install page look like an 'extensions' page.
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tantek simple user-friendly plugins that actually add user-level features
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tantek and then all the mini-modular plugins that "fit only one need"
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tantek not sure how else to resolve this
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GWG tantek: Neither are any of us.
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tantek GWG, does that mean you agree with my proposal?
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pfefferle perhaps it is possible to group the plugins by IndieWeb level
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petermolnar there is also the compatibility issue: while my webmentions plugin is an all-in-1 for webmentions, it fails on theme compatibility due to the custom comment types
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tantek pfefferle: yes, grouping by IndieMark levels would be a good start
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GWG tantek: Yes, in essence.
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petermolnar creating generic plugins for WP is a good idea, but it will go against the selfdogfooding: none of us will use it
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tantek petermolnar: I think GWG is willing to selfdogfood them
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pfefferle petermolnar that is another argument for simple and small plugins that allow a lot of customization...
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GWG So, we've already started that by saying the Indieweb plugin is going to handle level one authentication.
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tantek because he wants to help new/beginner users too and empathize with their experience
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pfefferle I for example don't use micropub
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GWG petermolnar: If they are written well, I think we can have our dogfood and eat it too.
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petermolnar I remember that, where are we with the indieweb plugin + rel=me integration?
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petermolnar is that working?
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tantek pfefferle: sure, and Micropub is a big enough chunk of user-level functionality that it deserves its own plugin
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tantek petermolnar is right, focus on the IndieWeb plugin making rel=me / IndieAuth easy
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petermolnar but it (Micropub) should not depend on another plugin (Post Types)
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tantek that is, using your site to sign into other places like the wiki
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petermolnar we started doing that, I'm just not certain where we are
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+236) "/* RSVPs from Tito */" (view diff)
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petermolnar oh wow, that was in January o.O
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tantek petermolnar: getting the IndieWeb plugin done like that would be a good goal for IWS
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petermolnar https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/commits/master
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GWG petermolnar: I'm back working on it
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GWG I'm working on the SVG icon code that stalled me.
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GWG I can show you a demo...
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GWG I was adding the same functionality to Syndication Links concurrently.
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petermolnar so, the indieweb plugin right now can add a widget, with proper rel=me markup, if the relevant fields in the user profile is filled in, but it lacks icons
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petermolnar adding svg icons can easily interfere with the themes themselves, are you sure that is necessary?
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petermolnar the plugin also acts as a repository for other indieweb plugins, but this sections needs a facelift: ordering the plugins by indiemark and by how essential they are, right?
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (+300) (view diff)
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GWG petermolnar: Back to Self Dogfood.
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GWG petermolnar: It does need a facelift. It might mean removing the TGM Plugin Installer and going with a custom page.
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GWG petermolnar: Without icons, it doesn't work for me. And most people won't want a plain list. I'm crafting the CSS to be extremely limited in scope. Only styling the icons, not anything else.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: Ben Roberts on Twitter: &#8220;Just keep making mobilepub nicer. I post much more now. #indieweb (https://t.co/wiewD8DhjE)&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14108-2/
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petermolnar many themes have built-in social icons already, aren't they?
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tantek but there is no WordPress standard for social icons right?
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tantek so you can't depend on anything like that
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tantek petermolnar: any such themes with social icons already, we should do pull requests to add rel=me
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tantek so that they automatically get that functionality
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tantek and can pass indiewebify.me
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petermolnar https://developer.wordpress.org/resource/dashicons/
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petermolnar very limited set is available baked in to WP
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GWG petermolnar: I'm using an Automattic project
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GWG https://github.com/Automattic/social-logos/
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tantek hey KevinMarks do you have a Lightning Talk for the panel you're moderating at dweb summit?
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (-263) (view diff)
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petermolnar that's a nice project
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GWG petermolnar: I have done testing with all the standard themes on my dev site, plus Sempress and it is working well.
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GWG I haven't pushed the commit yet though. Because I am trying to do two repos simultaneously, because I don't want to lose functionality.
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GWG So the Indieweb one has to be ready when I pull the switch on the same functionality in the Syndication Links one.
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Leaders (+203) "/* Session Ideas */" (view diff)
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GWG But I may get that done this weekend.
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[kylewm] boom https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7
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KevinMarks I just logged in to post that
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petermolnar I'm not amused by that
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petermolnar it my result in "instant articles, medium version", let's hope it doesn't
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KevinMarks I see no RSS link http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fsuperfeedr-thoughts%2Fmedium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7%23.qi7232xmt&html=&pretty=on
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tantek julien is pretty strong open web advocate, I expect he'll keep doing that inside Medium
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petermolnar KevinMarks you have to enable it
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tantek and Medium is still small enough for him to have an impact
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KevinMarks right, but julien hasn't
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KevinMarks also, why is the explantory text on https://medium.com/me/settings at 0.3 opacity? do their designers hate readers?
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snarfed1 wow that acquisition
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snarfed1 tantek, re dweb, i'm giving an indieweb lightning talk
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tantek I saw!
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tantek snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 225 karma
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tantek adding to /Events now
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KevinMarks I was wondering if a 45min workshop on indieweb would make sense
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GWG snarfed1: Congratulations to you.
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KevinMarks as they have slots for those
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snarfed1 KevinMarks: sure!
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aaronpk wait what
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GWG aaronpk: What What?
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GWG Which what?
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aaronpk it's not april 1 yet
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aaronpk superfeedr + medium
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snarfed more and more indieweb people are joining medium
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petermolnar define 'joining'
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aaronpk makes me think i should have considered medium for my last career shift
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GWG aaronpk: If you did, it would have microformats and webmentions by now
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snarfed petermolnar: full time employees :P
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petermolnar ah, ok :)
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[kylewm] me, for example :stuck_out_tongue: I have not intended to be quiet about that, but I sort of have been
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snarfed kylewm++ !
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Loqi kylewm has 333 karma
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tantek wait what kylewm you joined Medium?!?
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[kylewm] tantek: I did! I was going to wait until tomorrow to tell yall
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KevinMarks are you and ben working together?
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[kylewm] also why does slack autocomplete “you” to cweis.ke
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[kylewm] without the dot
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[aaronpk] ha his bio has "you" in it
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@craftycorvid Looking forward to meeting up with @indiewebcamp folks tomorrow! (twitter.com/_/status/738415604940582912)
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KevinMarks2 Gillmor Gang time
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GWG Again?
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KevinMarks2 It's early this week, Steve is going on a trip
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GWG Oh
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GWG One day I will have to watch.
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Salt hey, could someone take a look at my site and suggest why the author h-card isn't displaying? http://www.altsalt.net/blog/indieweb-summit-2016-rsvp/
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit 2016 RSVP
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Salt I keep doing web mentions and going lower on the rsvp list! :P
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk Salt: the "p-author" class needs to go on the same element that "h-card" is on
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GWG Salt: It is not your place on the RSVP list, it is that you are on it.
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Salt aaronpk, thanks
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tantek.com edited /Events (+325) "/* June */ indieweb related sessions at dweb summit" (view diff)
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aaronpk it's like saying "there is a property called 'author' and the value is this 'h-card' inside"
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Salt yay, that worked, thanks
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Loqi giggles
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Salt hrm, the rsvp list still doesn't show my name/avatar!!!
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aaronpk Oh shoot, I wonder if that's because of my caching
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aaronpk XRay caches parsed results for some time
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aaronpk (the page uses XRay for parsing RSVPs)
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Salt gotcha
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Salt well I have resubmitted since the h-card was fixed, so I will wait and hope it works :)
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aaronpk Check https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altsalt.net%2Fblog%2Findieweb-summit-2016-rsvp%2F and see if it looks right there, then send the webmention again when it does
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Salt thar we go
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Salt thanks aaronpk
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aaronpk \o/
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Salt I really need a new photo taken tbh... decided to not shave this summer after growing out the winter coat, that one is from last summer where things were a bit different...
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@benwerd Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738422270213816320)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/superfeedr-and-the-awesome-julien-genestoux-have-joined-medium-exciting
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@BankLabs RT @w3c This week: W3Cx, Javascript API, Webmention, Blockchain workshop, IoT, Jeff Jaffe CSAIL Alliance, TTML, Data Shari… http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3c-digest/2016AprJun/0008.html (twitter.com/_/status/738422673894690816)
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tantek kevinmarks have you proposed doing an IndieWeb workshop for day 2 of dweb yet? You totally should - for SESSION C or D: Lightning Talks and Workshops
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tantek s/D:/D :
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Loqi tantek meant to say: kevinmarks have you proposed doing an IndieWeb workshop for day 2 of dweb yet? You totally should - for SESSION C or D : Lightning Talks and Workshops
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tantek snarfed, perhaps you could help out at that too!
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tantek I'll try to be there to help too
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tantek and we can just encourage folks to show up and help each other out
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Salt hmm, is there a list of proposed workshops?
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Salt I know the project I want to work on but could maybe turn it into a group activity
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[kevinmarks] Yes I was thinking that. Will propose one
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tantek hey Salt - for the IndieWeb Summit, check out and add to: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Session_Ideas
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tantek Salt, have you signed into the wiki yet?
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Salt tantek, nope...
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tantek a-ha! start here https://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: ChrisAldrich on Twitter: &#8220;@TechLifeWeb Not sure if you&#8217;d run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? https://t.co/BFLI8rU2Mr&#8220;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14110-2/
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tantek Kevinmarks++ definitely propose it as a 45 min workshop. Perhaps even feel free to do to two: slot C: Getting on the IndieWeb (45 min to walk people through https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started )
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Loqi Kevinmarks has 220 karma
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tantek and slot D : Doing More On The Indie Web (45 min to walk people through everything in https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark from Webmentions to Micropub etc.)
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Salt tantek, hmm, may have time to set that up...uncertain lots to do before 11 days out of town, I really don't have the expertise of the session I would want to propose...
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Salt basically adding POSSE functionality to any static site generator
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@BillSeitz RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738425170147311616)
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tantek Salt, it takes mere seconds/minutes to set up
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tantek do you already link to your social media profiles from personal site?
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KevinMarks2 Proposing something you want help with is good
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Salt tantek, yes...sort of, I use redirects so that the base link to the service doesn't add to the link pool
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tantek link pool?
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Salt like there should never be a public link to a direct fb profile imho, instead one should have a link to fb internally that then redirects to the actual site, perhaps it is a litter overly paranoid, but I would like to be able to forward to the location I want for a specific site
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Salt and know where a particular profile is linked from
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tantek interesting. also a technique against link rot presumably
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tantek it's like you're own personal t.co
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tantek s/you're/your
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's like your own personal t.co
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Loqi [indieweb] "Shared a post by Ben Werdmüller" https://kylewm.com/2016/06/repost-of-ben-werdmu-ller-superfeedr-and-the-awesome
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Salt right
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Salt but it does appear to break web sign-in
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@kylewmahan RT @benwerd Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738427003699744769)
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Salt so hrm...
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tantek Salt, you only need one direct such link
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tantek e.g. Github is a good one
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Salt right
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tantek FB is not supported right now for web sign-in anyway
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Salt I don't suppose Wikipedia is >_>
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tantek I don't think Wikipedia supports OAuth
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tantek.com edited /2016/Leaders (+38) "/* Session Ideas */ add a leader for renaming session" (view diff)
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aaronpk hm yeah, indieauth.com does pattern matching on the URLs it finds on your site to check whether they are a specific silo
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aaronpk i'm not sure i want to fetch each to check what it eventually resolves to
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tantek each rel=me?
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Salt yeah...my setup builds the list based on a yml file, seems fairly complicated to change one entry to direct link
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Salt gonna see if adding an invisible link works
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Salt yeap, that looks like it worked
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aaronpk Right
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tantek right you can use <link rel="me" ... >
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tantek Salt, so step one, add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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Salt there appears to be lots of spam on that list..
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Salt maybe not
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tantek wait what? no there should be zero spam anywhere on indiewebcamp.com
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Salt just looked like lots of long links
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Salt missed the user names in them
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Salt also, it is odd that the links don't actually go anywhere but rather ask to edit a page for said link
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tantek like who?
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tantek they should in general link to User: pages
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Salt the ones directly above Salt now
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tantek the edits should show up here
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Salt fair point, and I did just edit it...
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snarfed Salt: feel free to try https://brid.gy/about#publish for POSSE from static sites
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snarfed no code needed, supports both interactive and automated
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Salt snarfed, yeah, I liked the idea of that, but what I am really looking for is automation in the sense of I submit an article, if it has a specific service listed, then it is automagically pushed there
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snarfed Salt: sure! you could probably get that by combining bridgy publish via webmention with https://telegraph.p3k.io/
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snarfed or with your own webmention automation, bridgy publish is still less work than implementing the silo APIs yourself...but up to you!
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Salt that's a great idea and if it is the direction I choose, then that'll be part of sunday's implementation :P
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@Borthwick @julien51 👏🍾 RT @benwerd: Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738431619875409920)
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Salt I think the 45 minute session will include a discussion of best methodology
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snarfed also check out https://silo.pub/
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@julien51 RT @Borthwick @julien51 👏🍾 RT @benwerd: Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738432521608830976)
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altsalt.net edited /2016/Sessions (+234) "added POSSE session" (view diff)
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Salt alright, so it appears that the irc-people page isn't being watched by Loqi...
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Loqi yeah!
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tantek did you click minor edit?
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Salt oh
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Salt fair point :P
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tantek Salt, I just clicked the 3 people above you in /irc-people and they all have user pages
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tantek adding yourself is not a minor edit ;)
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tantek and below you in the list, of those three, only sanduhrs (who doesn't seem to be here) is missing a user page
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tantek anyway, now that you have websignin working, add your session idea! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Session_Ideas
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Salt yeah, I was reading it wrong methinks
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altsalt.net created /User:Altsalt.net (+988) "init commit" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hah, i was just about to say you should update your user page Salt
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ben_thatmustbeme beat me to it
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Salt ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme also, congrats on being able to sign in
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ben_thatmustbeme Salt++
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Loqi Salt has 1 karma
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Salt nomnomnom karma
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tantek kinda surprised you didn't inherit some karma from previous salt fans ;)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Last night’s Homebrew Website Club SF @MozSF!
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Salt tantek, haha
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Salt I've had the name on freenode since forever but I suppose people could have been talking about saltstack and accidentally given karma
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bear pretty sure the only person who would talk about saltstack or ansible would be me
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bear salt++
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Loqi salt has 2 karma
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Salt bear, hehe, I went with ansible actually >_>
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bear I use both
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bear ansible for home and past $dayjob and at work now we use salt
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Salt I really liked the idea of not having to put something on the child machines
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+104) "/* Blog posts */ kevinmarks notes" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+302) "/* Photos */ add 1" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 RT @benwerd Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738444007672549377)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-154-hwc-sf-qwh.jpeg]]""
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+69) "/* Photos */ qwh photo" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-153-hwc-sf.jpeg]]""
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Loqi [indieweb] "Medium acquires Superfeedr — Superfeedr’s thoughts — Medium" https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g
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M-Kodo aaronpk (IRC): I noticed you don't wrap h-entries in h-feed, which is fine by me but breaks my parser code for people who choose to do that heh. the datastructure (in go anyway) is way different if it's wrapped in h-feed because it's a child. Did you do that on your site on purpose or just coincidence?
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+61) "link to person mention as related" (view diff)
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aaronpk M-Kodo: I haven't gotten around to adding h-feed around my feeds yet. I probably should at some point tho
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (-13) "/* Tantek */ regularly (more than just one)" (view diff)
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@debbidoo The latest The daily doo! http://paper.li/debbidoo?edition_id=143f2fd0-28f6-11e6-b3bb-0cc47a0d1605 Thanks to @xugla @dan_sadie @marcuschown #indieweb #euref (twitter.com/_/status/738448460219842560)
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GWG M-Kodo: If there is only 1 h-entry, there shouldn't be an h-feed...feed would suggest more than one in my opinion.
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aaronpk yes he's talknig about my pages like my home page or channel feeds
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aaronpk i just have a bunch of top-level h-entrys on the pages
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GWG No h-feed? Why?
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aaronpk lazy
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tantek GWG that's an important consideration, publisher time is non-zero-cost, thus requests that don't have an obvious benefit don't result in anything
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tantek this is why lots of more complicated efforts to add markup etc failed, because people didn't care / lazy
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tantek M-Kodo, in the long history of experience of consuming feeds, it's been pretty clear parsing code needs to adapt to publishers more than the other way
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aaronpk if someone gives me a compelling reason to add h-feed markup then I probably will. i suspect the reason might be things like my feeds look better in readers, etc.
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tantek thus if your parser code sees nothing but a list of h-entry elements, it should handle it
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tantek aaronpk: if you don't get an immediate benefit, why bother?
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aaronpk i think M-Kodo was saying his code *only* works with a list of h-entry elements right now, not with an h-feed?
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tantek we should keep this laziness in mind, as it applies to people in general
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tantek aaronpk: no he said the opposite
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aaronpk "I noticed you don't wrap h-entries in h-feed, which is fine by me but breaks my parser code for people who choose to do that"
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tantek right, your lack of h-feed breaks his parser code
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aaronpk i read that the other way around
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aaronpk especially since his code *does* work with my feeds right now http://tyler.cat:8080/?url=http://aaronparecki.com/all
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tantek I read the "which is fine by me but" as parenthetical
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tantek thus something is breaking from your site
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tantek I guess it could mean either
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tantek M-Kodo: what's the problem case?
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aaronpk hm i need some better p-name and summary fallback on some of my posts
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@webgefrickel Late to the party, but here are some of my photos from this years #IndieWebCamp and #btconf in Düsseldorf: https://webgefrickel.de/blog/beyond-tellerrand-and-indiewebcamp-2016 (twitter.com/_/status/738450475188682753)
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gRegorLove Also http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed##If+there+is+no+explicit
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Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft for marking up a stream or feed of h-entry posts, like complete posts on a home page or archive pages, or summaries or other brief lists of posts.
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gRegorLove I had to account for that in adding h-feed support to picoFeed. Wasn't too hard to put the top-level h-entries in an implied h-feed
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gRegorLove (work still in progress)
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aaronpk yeah all you really lose is the ability to have a meaningful "name" for the feed itself (which can be used to improve the way it looks when you are subscribing to it in a reader)
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bear also default author info?
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aaronpk i have that still, the last item on my page is an h-card
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aaronpk and the /authorship algorithm describes how they connect
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gRegorLove Yeah, but if it's only h-entries they *should* have authorship marked up properrly
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tantek GWG, can you reply to this? https://twitter.com/webrocker/status/738265112595865600
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@webrocker wordpress #indieweb tinkerers, can I turn off "get pingback/trackback notification" and still get webmentions or are these connected? (twitter.com/_/status/738265112595865600)
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aaronpk gRegorLove: my h-entrys only have my author URL as the property, no h-card embedded in each entry
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gRegorLove Yeah, which is proper
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gRegorLove edge-casey, but proper :)
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aaronpk i might change that soon
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gRegorLove I appreciated it since it helped me improve my wm plugin, and picoFeed parsing
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tantek.com edited /2016/Düsseldorf (+267) "/* Photos */ add Steffen Rademacker, compact list, fix animated group photo" (view diff)
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tantek !tell GWG do you know the answer to this WordPress pingback/trackback/webmention question? https://twitter.com/webrocker/status/738265112595865600 Can you reply to him?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG tantek: Someone beat me to it. But I commented in.
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tantek GWG++ thank you
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Loqi GWG has 161 karma
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tantek pfefferle++ you too :)
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Loqi pfefferle has 17 karma
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GWG For simplicity, the webmentions plugin uses the pings open setting that already exists.
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GWG Which doesn't distinguish by type.
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GWG But you can disable pingbacks entirely by not accepting them.
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GWG I'm not sure about trackbacks.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-hwc2016-06-01html-indieweb
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GWG i think I found a way to do it in plugin form, but I didn't test it
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@aaronpk Just picked up the badges for IndieWeb Summit! Still a few spots left to register! http://2016.indieweb.org https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/738455209035210752/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738455209035210752)
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@webrocker @dshanske thank you david. i get loads of trackback spam, but would hate to lose the webmention intergration, so thats good news @pfefferle (twitter.com/_/status/738455328879185920)
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KevinMarks hm "progressive enhancement is just not baked into any popular framework."
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KevinMarks things to fix?
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tantek lol yes
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tantek if anything that's perhaps the biggest failure of the progressive enhancment movement, not producing (enough?) frameworks that actually *do* progressive enhancement, and relying too much on talks / how tos and assuming everyone would code direct HTML+CSS+JS
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@kevinmarks RT @aaronpk Just picked up the badges for IndieWeb Summit! Still a few spots left to register! http://2016.indieweb.org https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/738455209035210752/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738455843750842368)
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aaronpk adactio bookmarked one that did, trying to find it
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aaronpk https://pakyow.org/
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aaronpk looks really interesting
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kylewm.com edited /2016/Sessions (+13) "/* Offline */ +me" (view diff)
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[kylewm] would Progressive Web Apps be a good session for Saturday? (and is it Google/Android specific?) I basically don’t know what it is, so would need to learn a bunch or recruit someone to lead it
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gRegorLove What is Progressive Web App?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Progressive Web App" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mm
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[kylewm] is MobilePub a PWA?
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KevinMarks yes
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gRegorLove kylewm: I think it's mostly service workers caching + pre-caching content, supported by current browsers
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KevinMarks not google/android specific; works on firefox, chrome + chromium derived browsers
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GWG Anyone ever write a script to test trackbacks?
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KevinMarks but works very well on android
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[kylewm] is it different than https://developer.android.com/topic/instant-apps/index.html ?
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GWG I hate to reproduce the wheel.
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snarfed [kylewm]: yes very different. kind of the opposite :P
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snarfed hate to refer you to videos but tantek liked a couple from google i/o recently? and/or one from adactio from somewhere? *defers to tantek...*
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tantek GWG, I'm almost afraid to ask, test trackbacks? why?
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GWG tantek: The person you referenced earlier wants to disable trackbacks but keep webmentions. I have an idea on how to disable them, but I need to ensure they get rejected.
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[kylewm] OK maybe my goal will be to find/watch that video and have a session
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[kylewm] snarfed: oh is this the jaffathecake video tantek shared??
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tantek yes
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tantek GWG, that's a very specific test
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tantek make sure trackbacks do nothing
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tantek and are not advertised
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tantek that could be useful for anyone
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tantek and if they "fail" it could warn them, hey it looks like you have trackbacks on, you should turn that off to discourage excess trackback spam traffic
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@RikMende @phillipadsmith to note #indieweb http://2016.indieweb.org and also check out @withknown (engine behind my site) (twitter.com/_/status/738459223068147712)
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tantek what is Trackback?
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Loqi TrackBack was a protocol for web sites to notify other web sites when they've posted a link to them (respectively) https://indiewebcamp.com/Trackback
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tantek GWG ^^^ add your testing need to /Trackback#Brainstorming
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[kylewm] "Instant Loading: Building offline-first Progressive Web Apps - Google I/O 2016” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGr0RszHc8
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[kylewm] can’t believe I confused that with “Instant Apps” :slightly_smiling_face:
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ben_thatmustbeme i should probably watch that since i am writing one
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ben_thatmustbeme but they basically just keep saying "with Angular" and i tune out
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Loqi agreed.
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[kylewm] Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 400 karma
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gRegorLove Instant Apps: Just add water
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GWG tantek: I thought someone might already have a script for that.
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi, Water or Oil?
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Loqi Oil
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GWG Maybe the inverse of webmentions rock.
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tantek is there a .spam domain?
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aaronpk i was about to say
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tantek trackback.spam :P
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aaronpk hm i should add indieweb summit to upcoming.org :D
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tantek YES
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tantek duh
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tantek wonders if there's a .paper and .scissors too
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GWG There's a sale on XYZ today
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gRegorLove Wait, upcoming.org is up? I thought it was just archives
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[kylewm] XYZ++
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Loqi XYZ has 1 karma
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tantek gRegorLove: for backers
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aaronpk gRegorLove: the beta is up anyway
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gRegorLove Ahh, cool!
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gRegorLove Lol to the midi on upcoming.org
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tantek.com edited /2016/Leaders (+114) "/* Session Ideas */ subheads" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/Leaders (+244) "/* rename to indieweb */" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk Just picked up the badges for IndieWeb Summit! Still a few spots left to register! http://2016.indieweb.org https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/738455209035210752/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738464421350014976)
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@pierreozoux RT @aaronpk Just picked up the badges for IndieWeb Summit! Still a few spots left to register! http://2016.indieweb.org https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/738455209035210752/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738465147199586304)
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kylewm.com edited /2016/Sessions (+476) "/* Progressive Web Apps */" (view diff)
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[kylewm] I blame KevinMarks for my interest in this (PWAs) btw
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@nitot RT @benwerd Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738468313408376832)
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[kevinmarks] This talk also, Kyle https://youtu.be/a5X_Ot-R6lo
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[kevinmarks] Which is Alex talking about combining pwa with amp; as tantek says having an h-entry is leaner even than amp
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@krynsky Can We Save the Open Web? A very important question. Presentation by @Dries https://www.youtube.com/ #opensource #opendata #indieweb #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/738473542057119744)
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[emmak] what is a pwa?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pwa" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mn
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tantek what is a progressive web app
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive web app" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mo
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tantek what is a progressive web application?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive web application" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mp
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tantek anyone have any ideas on how to combine a /event post and /payment to communicate that RSVPs require payment to be accepted?
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@RikMende RT @aaronpk Just picked up the badges for IndieWeb Summit! Still a few spots left to register! http://2016.indieweb.org https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/738455209035210752/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/738475089818193920)
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tantek and then a way to combine an /RSVP with a /payment such that the /event post can recognize that the /payment is for that RSVP?
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aaronpk facebook does this by providing a way for the event organizer to provide a URL to purchase tickets
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tantek sure, I'm thinking how can we fully decentralize what the decentralizedweb.net site does
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tantek like they're using the Eventbrite silo for RSVPs / payments
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tantek we're using an indie event for RSVPs
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tantek but we're still using tito for payments
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aaronpk that sounds like a fun session for the weekend
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ben_thatmustbeme so long as their is a reference to a receipt of some sort, the RSVP only needs to include a rel=receipt or something like that
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aaronpk IMO we're not going to have decentralized payments any time soon, so we should find ways of using payment services along with indie RSVPs
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snarfed seems design-adjacent to http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#Capacity_and_Ticketing
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ben_thatmustbeme you can verify the receipt is for your event and that you trust the receipt source obv
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aaronpk on our ti.to registration I have a field where people are supposed to put in the URL of their indie RSVP if they register that ticket option
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snarfed esp the design for verifying attendees at the door with pure indie events/rsvps
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tantek aaronpk do you use that to de-dupe?
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aaronpk we'll find out soon when i go to print the nametags
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aaronpk my intent with it was so people would make the association of indie RSVP with the $5 discount
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tantek just realized he might have forgotten to do that
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miklb.com edited /2016/Leaders (+316) "/* rename to indieweb */" (view diff)
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aaronpk and apparently it's not a required field even though i thought it was
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tantek sounds like we should also make the rename to indieweb a discussion session at the Summit itself
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tantek hopes he wasn't too late to get a printed nametag :)
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tantek I think I may have stopped at indie RSVP, not realizing I needed to tito also
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miklb.com created /Template:miklb (+125) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline| http://cdn.miklb.com/images/profile_4_16_sm.png.}} [[User:Miklb.com|Michael Bishop]]</span>"" (view diff)
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miklb.com edited /Template:miklb (-1) (view diff)
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[emmak] i didn't realize i needed to register on ti.to either
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aaronpk huh, what part of the text on the site was confusing?
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aaronpk i want to make that clearer for next time
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tantek aaronpk I guess I figured that by showing up on the page I was done?
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tantek wonders how many of the Indie RSVPs won't show up in the tito list that aaronpk is printing
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aaronpk i guess i have to do that tonight
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aaronpk i was going to go through the full list in all three places and make sure they're in sync
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aaronpk tho i'm having second thoughts about manually adding people to the guest list on the wiki
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aaronpk (right now my nametag printing script gets its data from the wiki guest list h-cards)
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[emmak] "See indiewebcamp.com/RSVP for instructions on how to create an RSVP post. Once you've created the RSVP post which links to this page, send a Webmention and you'll appear below!"
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gRegorLove I did both steps, but the ti.to step did seem a bit odd after appearing already.
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[emmak] since the instructions stop at sending the RSVP, and i am bad at reading comprehension, i thought i was done at that point
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tantek I read it the same way as emmak
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tantek and the "you'll appear below!" has a sense of "you're done!" to it
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aaronpk aha
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gRegorLove ti.to as the authoritative source of attendees vs the wiki also seems odd. I mean, I get it, but just vs previous years
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aaronpk my concern is that people may not want their name made public, and if they only registered via ti.to it's not public by default
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aaronpk (this happened last year with someone)
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KevinMarks hah https://twitter.com/joshuajuran/status/738462680978055168
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@joshuajuran @kevinmarks @zeldman JS;DR. http://www.jsdr.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/738462680978055168)
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tantek oh dear
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KevinMarks who got that domain?
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tantek I'm assuming @joshuajuran did
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@_Skunnyk_ RT @benwerd Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738483725537808384)
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M-Kodo are there any sort of signature based indie web protocols yet?
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M-Kodo for signing content using a public key associated with your domain
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/738492711309705216
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@kevinmarks Mobilepub by Ben is growing new features daily https://ben.thatmustbe.me/mobilepub/ - today POSSE syndication (twitter.com/_/status/738492711309705216)
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M-Kodo did indieauth get rebranded to web signin or is that a different spec?
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gRegorLove What is GPG?
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Loqi OpenPGP (Pretty Good Privacy) is a message exchange format that uses public key cryptography to enable people to exchange encrypted and/or signed data https://indiewebcamp.com/GPG
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snarfed M-Kodo: out of curiosity, what's your signature use case?
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@altsalt @nayafia IndieWeb Summit and generally hanging out :P I figured most people from Py wouldn't spend the weekend... (twitter.com/_/status/738494022528827393)
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M-Kodo snarfed (IRC): marking something as verified. like if you have 1+1 = 2 on your site I could post a signature saying my domain believes that to be true
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M-Kodo as a webmention or something
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gRegorLove M-Kodo: There's some information on https://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Integrity. Not many have experimented with it in the indieweb community.
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aaronpk a couple of us have sent encrypted messages to each other by encrypting with pgp and sending a webmention
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gRegorLove But feel free to expand with your thoughts
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snarfed M-Kodo: you could just post a reply on your site saying that, and if you serve over https, its cert verification will already prove that you and only you said it
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snarfed a/and only you/
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snarfed er, omit the "and only you"...but still
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snarfed seems like https cert verification would cover most use cases
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gRegorLove What is web sign in?
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Loqi Web sign-in is a way to sign in to websites using your personal web address https://indiewebcamp.com/web-sign-in
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gRegorLove IndieAuth is an implementation of web sign-in
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M-Kodo ah
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@btconf Thanks a LOT for this very kind words about #btconf & #indiewebcamp. “So many open-minded and friendly people…” YES! https://twitter.com/webgefrickel/status/738450475188682753 (twitter.com/_/status/738494672071450624)
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GWG On my way
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gRegorLove Safe travels, GWG.
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GWG Plane doesn't leave for an hour.
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@gDmobnutz2w RT @btconf Thanks a LOT for this very kind words about #btconf & #indiewebcamp. “So many open-minded and friendly people…” YES! https://twitter.com/webgefrickel/status/738450475188682753 (twitter.com/_/status/738496698616545280)
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[kylewm] whoa, I didn’t know to register via ti.to either
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aaronpk haha oh jeez
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aaronpk well i was gonna find that out tongiht when i collate the lists
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[kylewm] wait, can you check if I did?
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[benatwork] wait what
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[benatwork] also why isn’t my indie-RSVP there
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[benatwork] hrmph
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aaronpk next time i'm gonna make it auto-register to ti.to for you or something
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[kylewm] I remember checking the “Free” checkbox, so maybe I did do it
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[benatwork] guess I’m going to have to pay $5 for my buggy code
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aaronpk i don't see kyle or ben in the registrations
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[kylewm] oh my
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aaronpk [benatwork]: you can register for the "free" one if you put the URL in when you register
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aaronpk but it would be cool if you showed up on the page too
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[benatwork] it would..!
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[benatwork] I’ll fix that tonight
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[kylewm] looks like someone sent a webmention on your behalf, benwerd
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GWG I added myself to the guest list. Was I supposed to do something else?
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aaronpk i am mildly amused that it's only the IWC regulars who are confused about this new registration process that goes through ti.to
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[kylewm] :smile:
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aaronpk GWG: did you post an RSVP from your site?
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GWG aaronpk, no. Did I miss a memo?
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snarfed grabs popcorn
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aaronpk there are (apparently not very good) instructions on http://2016.indieweb.org
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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GWG I just logged into the wiki like I always do.
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GWG I went to Indiewebcamp.com/2016
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aaronpk we wanted to try a more accessible registration format this year that didn't require editing the wiki page
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KevinMarks I registered both ways, but there wasn't a 'remote' option
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aaronpk so the wiki page is more of a guest book now, rather than registration we use for counting for food and such
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GWG I just did that. I will see about an RSVP, but I need more than my phone to do that.
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aaronpk no worries, you can do that later, we know your'e coming :)
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GWG I have to key it in manually. I don't post RSVPs often.
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M-Kodo you don't have to own your domain to do rsvp which i thought was ironic
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M-Kodo you just need to be able to publish html content
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@kevinmarks “Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738500222821666816)
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Loqi [indieweb] "“Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/therein-comes-the-biggest-lie-in-all-this-now-exposed
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aaronpk M-Kodo: if it becomes a problem, then next year i'll blacklist things like pastebin and gists
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@uranther RT @kevinmarks “Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/738501568383815680)
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bear I was trying to register as a remotie but couldn't figure out how
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gRegorLove We've accepted RSVPs in recent years from people with just a blogger or something; domain isn't a strict requirement to attend. Those attendees usually leave with a domain set up though.
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aaronpk i didn't make a ti.to ticket option for remote attendees because the tickets are more important for getting a count on the people who are physically there.
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aaronpk probably a good idea to make a remote attendance ticket for next year tho
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aaronpk in the mean time, it's still totally great to send an indie rsvp to the page so you show up there, plus also adding yourself to the wiki guest list under remote attendance
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gRegorLove Idea for next year: show paid rsvps on the page as well as indie rsvps. Perhaps with a "private" option for those who don't want their name published.
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gRegorLove How many paid registrants have there been?
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aaronpk quite a few
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@jimpick Up next. Indieweb and Portland! (twitter.com/_/status/738505205407318017)
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gregorlove.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) "+2016-06-08" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (-459) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ rm 2016-06-01" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+13) "archived 2016-06-01 hwc" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Mostly I'm just thinking about this from the IndieWeb "Own Your Own Data" perspective, so if I'm reading this all correctly, the way the plugin" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/mostly-im-just-thinking-about-this-from-the-indieweb-own
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Leaders (+188) "/* Session Ideas */" (view diff)
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[jimpick] hello!
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[jimpick] catching the Amtrak Cascades tomorrow to get to Portland :slightly_smiling_face: