2016-06-09 UTC
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# 00:00 rrix I'm not sure the implications of putting my public key in an h-card though
# 00:01 rrix I am unsure of the threat-model around all of that stuff, but you're right about that ^
# 00:01 rrix I guess that answers the threat model :P
# 00:02 rrix So I guess in that respect you could just use "github" as an ssh auth source, even
# 00:02 aaronpk oh like if you link to your github account then get the keys from there?
# 00:03 rrix yeah rel=me -> github.com/rrix indieauth could just use rrix.keys
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# 00:07 sknebel aaronpk: if my site has a rel="authorization_endpoint" set, then during logging into the wiki Indieauth.com would delegate to that? Or offer logging into it as an alternative?
# 00:07 sknebel trying to understand exactly how the pieces fit together
# 00:07 aaronpk right now your own authorization endpoint shows up as an option on indieauth.com
# 00:08 aaronpk this weekend we talked about changing the mediawiki auth plugin to use your authorization endpoint directly if you've set one, rather than always using indieauth.com. so i'm going to try to do that soon.
# 00:11 sknebel we talked about different security levels a while back, just realized that with my own endpoint I could implement that
# 00:11 sknebel allowing different methods depending on redirect_target
# 00:11 aaronpk yeah I really want to encourage more authorization servers so I'm trying not to make indieauth.com toooo fancy ;-)
# 00:14 [kylewm] iirc, you basically did the indieauth.com delegation because you didn’t want to write any more mediawiki plugin code :stuck_out_tongue:
# 00:15 aaronpk yep but 1) i have to upgrade the plugin for the new mediawiki version anyway and 2) dealing only with other indieauth authorization servers is almost no extra code, certainly a lot easier than dealing with all the various oauth 1.1/2.0 providers
# 00:17 Loqi [indieweb] "Last Friday: #IndieWeb Leaders gathered (📷 @julieannenoying) and discussed improving our community, our outreach, and even our website, which updated that night, right before the IndieWeb Summit: indiewebcamp.com
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# 00:25 miklb kylewm do you have familiarity with Jekyll?
# 00:29 tantek hey aaronpk did you get a push notification of being tagged in a photo? ;)
# 00:33 tantek or anyone else who was at the Leaders Summit?
# 00:34 tantek I think I just got automatic person-tag webmentions working (had somehow forgotten to in Nürnberg)
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# 00:35 [shaners] Has anyone written up the indiewebcamp.com => indieweb.org proposal on the wiki for community review yet?
# 00:35 tantek shaners - Falcon didn't find a webmention endpoint at your URLs
# 00:37 [shaners] tantek: Falcon is correct. DM doesn’t have any WM support yet.
# 00:38 gRegorLove tantek: I got a homepage mention. I'm not doing anything with them currently.
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# 00:48 tantek gRegorLove: yay! Did you detect what the "type" was? Like could you tell if it was a tag?
# 01:02 aaronpk oh yay the webmention endpoint was apparently part of the old skin
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# 01:08 [kylewm] miklb: sorry I missed your question, no I don’t know jekyll unfortunately
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# 01:10 [shaners] I didn’t notice you had a nested template. Then I did. And undid my edit.
# 01:10 miklb thinking outloud…Basically my issue is that the generator in the plugin parses post.content for links and writes to a cache file for sending mentions. I need to find a way to get ahead of when Jekyll generates the post.content. Or, modify the plugin the to read the Front Matter (mp-syndicate-to from micropub) and write the bridgy link from there.
# 01:12 miklb thinks the latter is going to be better solution
# 01:12 aaronpk ~~~~ is a mediawiki thing which expands to a signature when you save the page
# 01:12 gRegorLove I think you copied it with the <nowiki> code around it. Doesn't matter for the most part with your {{veganstraightedge}}
template.
# 01:13 gRegorLove I guess 3 tildes adds a link to your wiki User page. 4 does that + datetime
# 01:14 gRegorLove In my wiki preferences I actually set my signature to substitute my {{gRegor}}
template, which is why the sparkline stuff was in there.
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# 01:28 [shaners] tantek rhiaro gwg julieannenoying kylewm benwerd: Since you were there and part of the conversation, can you add your +1 (assuming nothing’s changed for you) to /rename_to_IndieWeb please?
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# 01:34 mblaney shaners was the logo discussed in reference to the renaming? I mean we're talking about dropping "camp" but the logo will still be IWC?
# 01:35 [shaners] The new IWC logo would still be for the events, but not for the new larger overarching branding of Indie Web (sans camp).
# 01:36 GWG Same logo with the C missing? Or new design?
# 01:37 [shaners] the IWC logo loses it’s balance etc with just dropping the C
# 01:37 GWG [shaners]: I mean...same design concept...not a radical change?
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# 01:57 aaronpk every time i open up mediawiki plugin code i want to ditch mediawiki for something simpler
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# 02:04 tantek__ aaronpk, did you get a "tantek.com tagged you in a photo" mobile notification?
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# 02:22 kylewm Ohh simpler than mediawiki, that sounds like a fun bikeshed to paint
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# 02:23 aaronpk i do think it would be an interesting experiment to make a page on the wiki to collect a list of all the things we currently do with the wiki
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# 03:46 aaronpk GWG: good news! the shipment of indiewebcamp shirts finally got here! that means i have a shirt for you now!
# 03:50 aaronpk i hear there is an inexpensive way to pay someone to carry the package across the country
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# 03:54 GWG aaronpk: Are you coming to IWC NYC?
# 03:54 GWG Well, maybe you went to send some shirts for use there?
# 04:02 miklb probably a pretty n00b question, but can I pass the omit-link param in the URL for bridgy?
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# 04:07 kylewm You can, I think. Bridgy is weird that way... it treats query and body parameters the same
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# 04:37 miklb snarfed cool. Pardon the ignorance, but would I use ? or & in the URL?
# 04:42 aaronpk oh wait, it's worse. everything is *going to* change... in the next version of mediawiki
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# 04:54 miklb snarfed sorry, sknebel answered my question. Was unsure about how to build the query string
# 04:54 snarfed use & afterward to separate additional params. http query param syntax.
# 04:59 miklb ok, it sent. but some reason my markup choked on it. Seems to work normally, but maybe because I have an empty summary on the notes at the moment
# 05:00 miklb but \_O_/ for micropub syndication with Jekyll
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# 05:04 miklb snarfed no. I'm using micropub to publish to my Jekyll site, then automate bridgy to POSSE to Twitter based on micropub setting a mf-syndicate-to flag
# 05:06 miklb yep the micropub that voxpelli wrote writes some front matter in the jekyll md file, and I'm using that to trigger the webmention. Probably doesn't get more hack :-)
# 05:07 miklb not to mention, I took the long trip to get to this point.
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# 05:15 bear please do write up your journey in the wiki
# 05:15 bear it really helps when people who discover how to do something take notes - no matter how basic
# 05:17 miklb bear will do. I want/need to tweak the plugin (hoping to a point I can send a pull request) for it.
# 05:17 miklb my Ruby skills are how do you say it…lacking? But I'm picking it up bit by bit.
# 05:19 miklb Also, I'm pretty fortunate that voxpelli shared his yet to be public code to get the micropub/Jekyll working in the first place. But I'm hopefully blazing the trail so when he's ready to share it I can help others
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# 05:53 GWG Sending little updates one by one seems to work for Pfefferle.
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# 08:34 pfefferle !tell GWG yes, so it is easier to understand you changes and your thoughts behind them. And it's easier to discuss changes.
# 08:34 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 08:35 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 08:56 sknebel Jeena: noticed that too while playing with thready
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# 10:11 Jeena sknebel, and obviously I don't think we should change how thready works, we should change peoples behaviour imho
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# 10:53 gnb.io created /User:Gnb.io (+303) "Created page with "==Current Status== * Site uses [[WordPress ]] * Offers a shortener version/redirect at gb1.co == Wordpress Details== * Modified theme to bring in Indieweb features and post for..."" (
view diff )
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# 13:21 GWG Pfefferle, I still am challenged by indents
# 13:25 GWG pfefferle: I thought running it through a code sniffer helped. Will continue to work on it.
# 13:25 GWG pfefferle: By the way, after the last pull request I sent you, the next one is going to bring the code to specification on looking for target before source.
# 13:27 pfefferle GWG ok nice, I will look at the last pull request later today...
# 13:27 petermolnar GWG: ":set listchars=eol:¬,tab:>·,trail:~,extends:>,precedes:<," and ":set list"; this will show non-space tabs
# 13:29 GWG pfefferle: I want to bring over the comment walker and iterate on that to include in Semantic Linkbacks. So any theme can use it.
# 13:30 pfefferle the problem with the comment walker is, that he does not group them
# 13:30 GWG pfefferle: But how would you do that without taking over the comment template as well?
# 13:31 GWG The plugin I wrote answered that by including a comment template and a comment walker and letting either be enabled.
# 13:32 GWG pfefferle: Potentially doable. But without editing the template, is there a way to filter the comments?
# 13:33 pfefferle will commit it also later today... it is still experimental, but I will make a new branch
# 13:33 GWG pfefferle: I have those other Semantic Linkback ideas.
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# 13:34 GWG pfefferle: Like putting the source into the $commentdata so Semantic Linkbacks doesn't have to pull it a second time. Core does that for pingbacks now.
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# 13:41 GWG But, only so much can be done so quickly.
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# 16:02 xavierrroy any Known gurus here? I need help.
# 16:04 xavierrroy when I sign on using indieauth on sites, it shows my profile as domainname/profile/user. Is htere a setting/way to configure it point to my domain?
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# 16:18 Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
# 16:19 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 16:21 xavierrroy thanks @ben_thatmustbeme for the links
# 16:21 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 16:29 [shaners] If there's a HWC in PDX next week, I can go to it. Aaronpk
# 16:31 miklb oh wow, I just realized that once I figure out this change to the webmention plugin, I won't have to include the hidden link in my articles for bridgy POSSE
# 16:34 [shaners] Jeena I put your photo post URL in my in-reply-to field. I just don't have Webmentions working yet.
# 16:34 Loqi [Shane Becker] @jeena You’re welcome to print new shirt or stickers anytime you want if you want to distro .eu.
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# 16:37 [emmak] !tell snarfed that would be awesome. was just thinking that showing tweets in the threads would be really cool :slightly_smiling_face:
# 16:37 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 16:43 [emmak] interesting that people also suggested that thready not supporting tweets is a forcing function to own your own posts
# 16:44 aaronpk related, just had a thought of another thing to add to original post discovery
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# 16:45 aaronpk when I find a tweet i'm replying to that doesn't include a link to the original, that doesn't mean there isn't an original (my tweets for example)
# 16:46 aaronpk given a tweet URL, find the user's website on their twitter profile, then look at their website feed for a post with a syndication property equal to the tweet URL
# 16:47 aaronpk that would help me post more replies to peoples' individual sites even when i only find their tweets
# 16:53 [emmak] are there best practices around publishing and consuming multiple feeds?
# 16:53 [emmak] i've started separating my replies to a different feed, but wondering if that would break your reply algorithm
# 16:56 aaronpk i have rel=feed from my home page to a page that shows all my content
# 16:56 aaronpk bridgy uses that page too, otherwise it would miss finding posts that aren't on my home page
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# 17:03 [emmak] how does bridgy know which one is the main feed? or does it follow all of them?
# 17:04 aaronpk IIRC bridgy uses the main page and the first rel-feed url
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# 17:10 snarfed emmak: aaronpk: bridgy actually fetches all rel-feeds
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# 17:14 kylewm doesdoes anyone know what's up in the Westfield mall
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# 17:15 kylewm does anyone know what's in the Westfield Mall Dome these days? (since Boulange closed)
# 17:15 kylewm wondering if that would be a good place to meet next week
# 17:22 kylewm I'll scout it today and confirm the location tonight, but the events are up if you want to use them for examples in snarfed's talk!
# 17:22 snarfed thanks kylewm! no worries, i actually had to turn in my slides yesterday, but i'll definitely evangelize!
# 17:23 kylewm I would've been surprised if you got in the minutiae of indieweb RSVPs in a lightning talk ;)
# 17:24 snarfed funny, that's actually the one deep dive i am doing!
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# 17:26 snarfed sadly not html since they required PPT or OPD, but i'll convert to html soon
# 17:30 [emmak] looks like known doesn't use h-feed either? is rel-feed an alternative to h-feed?
# 17:30 aaronpk rel-feed is just a link to a page that has a list of posts
# 17:30 aaronpk h-feed is on that URL and a way to explicitly say this is a list of posts
# 17:30 aaronpk my site doesn't actually publish h-feed, it just publishes a list of posts instead
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# 17:41 gRegorLove without explicit h-feed, bridgy implies multiple h-entry as an h-feed, I think (?)
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# 17:47 [shaners] aaronpk: I thought you said you were gonna add h-feed to your site?
# 17:47 aaronpk eventually yeah, but it's not a high priority and also not a quick change
# 17:49 [shaners] Whoa. Not a quick change? That’s surprising to me. I expected it’d just be a simple change to your template. A wrapper div or a class on an existing div.
# 17:49 snarfed KevinMarks: 3rd in the 11am block, but it'll start late so i'll be on maybe 11:45ish
# 17:50 aaronpk pretty much the only reason to add h-feed is to be able to give the feed a useful name, which means i have to have a way to generate a useful name for all my feeds
# 17:59 aaronpk there's already a mechanism for that with just a list of h-entrys
# 18:02 KevinMarks I know there is but it requires a lot more from the parsing side
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# 18:24 GWG Slowly wading through my commits to Pfefferle. Things get better the tenth time I rewrite them
# 18:27 GWG I just had a good idea for another improvement while my brain was supposed to belong to my employer.
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# 18:31 kylewm Lauren Garcia just started her talk, I think Ryan is next
# 18:31 rhiaro yeah M-kegan got posting to matrix via micropub working almost a year ago :)
# 18:32 Loqi "You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world [wide web]." — Morpheus, The Matrix
# 18:35 tantek snarfed: we started with the simplest tool we could get to work. the domain name.
# 18:35 tantek ... with individual websites how can we help people own their own data
# 18:35 tantek ... KevinMarks comes along, and posts an RSVP on his own website
# 18:35 tantek ... important part is that he is saying he is going to this event
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# 18:35 [benatwork] snarfed++ for really great, easy-to-understand, non-technical explanation
# 18:36 tantek ... my site receives that, goes and gets the source, verifies the RSVP
# 18:36 tantek ... he RSVPs to the event, between two websites, no intermediary
# 18:37 tantek ... we feel strongly about meeting people where they already are
# 18:37 tantek ... if you have a personal website you likely already have microformats and don't know it
# 18:38 tantek ... at the same time, try thinking small, try thinking incremental, and meet people where they are
# 18:38 tantek ... are microformats are something you guys designed and invented? or found?
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# 18:39 tantek Q: could you explain relationship between IndieWebCamp technologies and W3C Social Web Working Group?
# 18:39 tantek A: we are fortunate that key IWC players are in the SWWG
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# 18:40 tantek ... these core building blocks are open standards
# 18:40 tantek ... Webmention, Micropub are working their way through these standards bodies
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# 18:45 tantek need to put a hyperlinked version of that building blocks grid on the wiki!
# 18:45 tantek !tell snarfed can you put your slides on the wiki? in whatever format you have
# 18:45 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 18:47 KevinMarks I tweeted a link to the gdoc but html slides that accept webmention would be good
# 18:47 GWG I wonder how many people will try Known or the WordPress plugin today.
# 18:47 tantek snarfed, really appreciate your framing and tone of delivery, may try to emulate that in the future if you don't mind ;)
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# 18:56 miklb but I'd very much like to share that with someone I've had a hard time explaining IndieWeb to
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# 19:01 M-kegan still lurks :)
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# 19:04 aaronpk i wonder if they'd mind if i cut out snarfed's video and re-uploaded it
# 19:04 tantek do it, then tweet it with the DWebSummit hashtag saying hope that's ok!
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# 19:20 tantek if someone else could link to them in the page
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# 19:23 tantek shaners ^^^ there's one with (y)our nice new logo :)
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# 19:24 tantek apologizes for the fuzziness of his photos, hands may have been shaking with excitement at snarfed's talk
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# 19:24 tantek if someone wants to "clean up" the photos, please go right ahead
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# 19:27 aaronpk we gotta make sure all the events have photos on them
# 19:27 aaronpk and i want more of the summit summaries on indienews!
# 19:27 Loqi gives aaronpk more of the summit summaries on indienews
# 19:27 [shaners] tantek: time for you to get a newer phone/ipod with a better camera for low/er light. to avoid blurriness.
# 19:28 tantek shaners - more like I forgot to turn on HDR which usually fixes that :/
# 19:28 tantek shaners, ok that's it - only two decent photos, all done uploading, go for it
# 19:29 aaronpk IIRC none of the iPods have a camera as good as the iPhone
# 19:29 tantek aaronpk: depends on generation. iPod 5 touch has good a camera as top of the line iPhone 4S did IIRC
# 19:30 tantek newest iPod touch has as good a camera as iPhone 5C I believe
# 19:30 tantek hence all the "taken on an iphone 6" billboards
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# 19:53 Loqi [indieweb] "#DWebSummit Great #IndieWeb lightning talk by @schnarfed!
# 19:53 rrix has anyone done h-feed to RSS script/webthingy?
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# 20:04 aaronpk if you choose to only post ill-informed complaints on twitter rather than on your own website, i choose to ignore them
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# 20:08 gRegorLove I wouldn't mind responding, but he's made his position on indieweb pretty clear already so probably not useful conversation to have.
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# 20:23 kylewm ^cool! I take back what I said about the tracker feed. also the guy sounds like he could be in the Arab Strap (which maybe just means scottish0
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# 20:55 [techlifeweb] Just heard about aaronpk 's Teacup via Twitter. Has anyone written something similar for checking into Movies/Shows they are watching?
# 20:57 gRegorLove [techlifeweb]: I'm interested in something similar for books, though hadn't thought of it as a micropub app.
# 21:00 gRegorLove I've yet to set up micropub, so I tend to think about the simpler version of posting these things directly via my site.
# 21:15 xavierrroy I would love that: a simple form to enter a book title and maybe pull in the data from amazon and maybe a couple of radio buttons to mark as nowreading/completed.
# 21:16 aaronpk definitely make it as a micropub client! that way everyone can use it with their own sites!
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# 21:16 Loqi To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents; on the IndieWeb, a read post expresses that something has been read, like a book or section thereof https://indiewebcamp.com/reading
# 21:17 xavierrroy right now, i'm using simile and google spreadsheets to display it: http;//xavierroy.com/library
# 21:17 gRegorLove Sure, i just need to implement micropub before I work on a micropub client :)
# 21:22 gRegorLove I'm sure implementing micropub won't be hard, but if I do it I'd like to do it as a ProcessWire plugin and I'm not sure how that will work since PW can have any page hierarchy the owner sets up. It's a framework more than a "here are the blog posts, here are the notes, etc."
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# 21:25 KevinMarks1 it was very good, but I was too sleepy to take good notes
# 21:25 aaronpk oh ha he just embedded the youtube player at the specific time offset of his talk
# 21:26 KevinMarks1 thats allowed
# 21:26 KevinMarks1 now I want do it as a webtorrent
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# 21:41 miklb well crud. I sent a webmention to bridgy for my note, but since the URL isn't on the post, it won't accept it.
# 21:42 aaronpk yep that's the "webmention" part of bridgy publislh
# 21:43 miklb I think I can slip the link in html though. That wasn't a problem, it was getting Jekyll to use it for sending
# 21:44 miklb aaronpk I thought I just had to send a link of the post as webmention. Now I know
# 21:54 gRegorLove Re: the accessibility talk this past weekend, is there a preferred/best practice way for marking up a caption for a photo?
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# 21:54 [benatwork] Pretty excited by those sponsored topics
# 21:56 [benatwork] “The main purpose of the web, as we know it, is to sell ads”
# 21:58 [benatwork] Also, indieweb made Newsweek! Good job, everyone
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# 22:05 [benatwork] minor miracle frankly
# 22:05 [benatwork] also I’m totally interested in dental implants for seniors, so good job, ads team
# 22:06 [benatwork] but in all seriousness, it’s awesome that they’re covering this
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# 22:14 [benatwork] also, rereading, apparently tantek wrote known, but whatever :wink:
# 22:16 rhiaro 10x as many people are running your code, tantek
# 22:17 aaronpk i'm assuming this is the same reason that multiple people tend to get rolled into one when a true story gets adapted for a movie
# 22:17 [benatwork] true story: according to almost all of our news coverage, Elgg was written by the University of Brighton
# 22:18 [benatwork] I’m super-glad journalists care about facts so much in an election year
# 22:19 [benatwork] to be clear: I’m laughing and don’t actually care
# 22:20 [benatwork] I would suggest changing this:
# 22:20 [benatwork] He said there are 10 times as many people running his code this year as last
# 22:20 [benatwork] He said there are 10 times as many people running indieweb code this year as last
# 22:23 miklb stage 1 of micropub -> bridgy POSSE complete. Thank you everyone for your help and putting up with my droning on about it
# 22:23 tantek benatwork, thank you that was the phrase I just found that irked me too
# 22:25 [benatwork] newsweek++
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# 22:30 [kylewm] suspect you haven’t gotten an answer because your question is vague as hell
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# 22:31 [shaners] I don’t think there’s an improvement in moving from first person singular to first person plural.
# 22:31 [benatwork] wow, that was fast
# 22:31 [shaners] Who is the “we”? Do “we” own a shared repository of “our” collective data? Or do “we” *each* own *our* respective data?
# 22:31 [benatwork] I think mike’s question is about whether cooperatives / community ownership might be more scaleable than individual ownership
# 22:31 [benatwork] I think it’s a valid question
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# 22:32 [benatwork] From my spotty attendance of the live feed I feel like it was partially addressed at the event, too
# 22:32 [shaners] “You” can still refer to a collective / coop, bc English doesn’t have a second person plural different from the second person singular.
# 22:33 tantek shaners - I don't really understand the tweet, seems mostly like a theoretical question disconnected from anything real
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# 22:36 [benatwork] I’m not sure I completely agree - collective ownership / co-operative running are ideas that work in the real world. But thinking about how that might be represented in code is breaking my brain a bit.
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# 22:38 [benatwork] (spot the socialist)
# 22:40 aaronpk I totally agree that community owned things are useful too. We have a community wiki for example.
# 22:40 aaronpk I just don't think that's expressed very well in his tweet or in how he's asked about it in the past
# 22:41 aaronpk Also "we own our data" and "you own your data" are not mutually exclusive
# 22:42 gRegorLove Yeah, the question seems predicated on latching onto a narrow meaning of one phrase.
# 22:44 [kylewm] considering responding with a meme of the queen saying “We own our data"
# 22:45 gRegorLove Note the homepage says "Your content is yours" not "You own your data"
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# 22:47 [shaners] There’s also ambiguity of we and our. Like, did I get to have a choice in being including in your concept of “our”? Are you owning my data with my consent? Can I freely leave the we? If I do, does my piece of the our come with me or stay behind or both?
# 22:48 [shaners] "Your content is yours” (as gregorlove points to) is direct and unambiguous (or at least, less ambiguous) which I like.
# 22:48 aaronpk Someone should just reply with a link to this part of the logs
# 22:48 gRegorLove Kinda related: We talked about shared hosting at the summit, and the possibility of someone managing a server and spinning up instances of blogs for a group/community, to make that whole process easier.
# 22:50 [kylewm] I still like that concept… if the people on the shared server are real-life-friends and there is some concept of sharing the cost
# 22:51 aaronpk i used to host journals for friends. Wasn't open for general signup but I would make accounts for people I knew
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# 22:55 [benatwork] I’ve run a server for my friends for the last decade or so. It’s where werd.io and my other personal experiments are stored. But it also hosted, among other things, a web community, a Stop Boris Johnson website, and maybe 15 or so blogs.
# 22:55 [benatwork] It’s a perfectly reasonable model.
# 22:56 [benatwork] (They don’t pay me. But one of my friends sysadmins for me, which is nice, because server administration and me are like china shops and bulls.)
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# 23:14 Loqi [Scott Kingery] Vint Cerf – A Web that Archives Itself – Keynote Decentralized Web Summit 2016
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# 23:28 [kylewm] benwerd: I’m open to different definitions of sharing the costs :slightly_smiling_face:
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# 23:53 tantek and the answer works again too, because the /next-hwc link is preserved in the old tweet as a redirect, and thus redirects to the next most current HWC :D
# 23:58 [kylewm] tantek: have you been to Under the Dome since Boulange closed? still an acceptable place for a handful of people to meet