#indiewebcamp 2016-06-11

2016-06-11 UTC
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@kevinmarks @yoz @hondanhon @vdavez @aaronsnow @jtag indieauth is there for you when you get round to it. (twitter.com/_/status/741420108824776704)
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christophe.ducamp.me created /User:Christophe.ducamp.me (+287) "newcomer for a family experimentation" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr Commencer sur l'#indieweb ? https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started-fr (#traduction mise á jour - relecture et corrections bienvenues) (twitter.com/_/status/741430705759129600)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk++ for webmention.rocks
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Loqi aaronpk has 163 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme Finding several issues I needed to fix. Updating needed some fixes
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi giggles
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aaronpk oh boy. someone's having a bad day right about now. https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/10/12/fail
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] uh, major @letsencrypt #fail. They just sent an email containing everyone's email addresses.
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[shaners] woof. that’s bad.
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tantek wow what
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aaronpk always triple check your mass emails folks
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tantek hey it's xtof!
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tantek "Christophe.ducamp.me" above
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[trillium] oof let's encrypt...also hello all *waves*
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[shaners] Hi trillium!
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aaronpk ouch https://twitter.com/aaronraimist/status/741463183513124864
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@aaronraimist @aaronpk The last one on the list is my email address. I assume if my name was at the end of the alphabet, I would have every users email. (twitter.com/_/status/741463183513124864)
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[trillium] shaners: talking about Kanye's "you know what the Midwest is? young and restless..." line has had me listening to "Jesus Walks" repeatedly over the past few days :smile:
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[shaners] you’re welcome?
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[trillium] oh yes, a lil Kanye sesh is always a good thing imo
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tantek interesting way of saying js;dr: https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/740790430644772865 (and then read how hilarious the thread gets quickly, including replies from IWC anomalily
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@Pinboard Do you make grilled cheese with a flamethrower? So why are you using javascript to render a page of text? (twitter.com/_/status/740790430644772865)
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tantek and oops: https://twitter.com/anseljh/status/741391388122710016 :(
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@anseljh The web I want doesn't need JavaScript to render content, @Mozilla. [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/741391388122710016)
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@cuibonobo @peakwinter How about something like #indieweb that focuses on using the web for comm, but leaves internal implementation up to you? (twitter.com/_/status/741474043405164544)
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aaronpk cuibonobo++
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Loqi cuibonobo has 17 karma
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[kylewm] 007fuchs is a good email address
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[kylewm] so I have like a general thing I don’t understand — applications running in a subdirectory, should that be handled at the application level or at the webserver level? like should the application know it’s running in a subdirectory or should apache/nginx make that opaque to the app?
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[kylewm] we have a problem with Known where it’s a little bit of both
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aaronpk i've had the best luck by setting a config option super high up in the app to tell it the external URL it lives at, and having everything else based off of that
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tantek aaronpk: makes sense to me
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aaronpk sometimes the app doesn't have enough info to know the external URL depending on how it's set up (proxies, subfolders, etc)
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aaronpk so i got in the habit of always having a global "base url" setting and always building URLs off of that
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[shaners] bear: are you around?
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[kylewm] aaronpk++ yeah that makes sense to me too. Known might have an issue where it’s trying to be a little bit too automatic. maybe we should say subdirectories are a weird case, and you can do them, but you have to edit text files
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Loqi aaronpk has 164 karma
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aaronpk ah yeah that's a reasonable compromise
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aaronpk how does wordpress handle this?
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aaronpk if you wanted to be really fancy you could detect the subfolder it's installed at when they're running through the setup process and store it
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tantek yep
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miklb iirc WordPress you set in the config file and have to move the main index file to root
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miklb oh,wait, that's if you want the files stored in subdirectory but still server from root.
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miklb s/server/serve/
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Loqi miklb meant to say: oh,wait, that's if you want the files stored in subdirectory but still serve from root.
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aaronpk so many twitter bots https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/10/12/fail
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] uh, major @letsencrypt #fail. They just sent an email containing everyone's email addresses.
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miklb interesting, I use letsencrypt, but didn't receive any email.
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aaronpk they stopped it before it got too far in the alphabet
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aaronpk https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/email-address-disclosures-preliminary-report-june-11-2016/16867
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[znmeb] aaronpk: paging znmeb@znmeb.net :wink:
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tantek oh boy
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[znmeb] Let's not encrypt :disappointed:
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tantek email is hard, let's send webmentions
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[shaners] tantek: I found Molly’s photo of me at the WP 1.5 upgrade party.
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tantek is sad about what he sees at https://webwewant.mozilla.org/en/# with JS off (NOSCRIPT)
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aaronpk this is not the web we want :-/
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[znmeb] My home page was on the Lynx honor roll in 1994 :wink:
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[scottgruber] shaners: is there a svg or vector version of the IWC logo available for download to use on our sites? Just thinking ...
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[shaners] scottgruber: I got you. https://github.com/indieweb/branding/tree/master/logos/SVG
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[scottgruber] Whoa! Thanks.
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@scott_gruber #IndieWebCamp is an intentionally positive community that recognizes and celebrates...creativity... #codeofconduct https://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct (twitter.com/_/status/741489693636730880)
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GWG is watching snarfed's talk
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@simonblackley @NantAmberson @RikMende If you're getting into #indieweb you have to follow @kevinmarks (twitter.com/_/status/741498598895067136)
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@devleakslinks The #IndieWeb is important - it focuses on You, not the corporations that own the big silo content farms. http://devleaks.com/link/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/741510279268302848)
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Loqi [indieweb] "I have updated to Known 0.9.2 - and my connection to instagram does not work anymore. I have failed to adapt the "hack" to" by Andreas Petersell http://petersell.com/2016/i-have-updated-to-known-092---and-my-connection
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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Zegnat Good morning #indiewebcamp
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tantek.com edited /js;dr (+659) "webwewant" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi morning
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j4y_funabashi right, plan for this weekend is to try pass some webmention.rocks tests
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j4y_funabashi !tell snarfed sorry about that, I turned off my webmention parsing a while ago and planning to rewrite it all this weekend re http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-25/line/1464184657862
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@__UBI__ The latest The media on / off Daily! http://paper.li/__UBI__/ubi-media-france?edition_id=b491c490-2fca-11e6-ae4e-0cc47a0d1605 Thanks to @xtof_fr #infosec #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/741598500836806656)
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@jkphl Something in the making ... #IndieWeb FTW. :) https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/741634069973323777 (twitter.com/_/status/741634571649884164)
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KevinMarks https://mercury.postlight.com/
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Zegnat KevinMarks: interesting. I guess they just strip HTML that isn’t amp-ed?
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@kylewmahan Things Indiewebcamp says: "June is broken" (twitter.com/_/status/741682631759167488)
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[tantek] !tell shaners what do you think of offering phone backgrounds with the new logo? E.g. I tried to set the new logo (square version) to be an iOS bg and iOS just stretched it too wide (cropping it).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bear !tell miklb I have a draft circleci config - but I don't grok jekyll yet enough to know if I have it right - let me know when you want to work on it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indieweb] "Caught me, I originally posted here https://medium.com/@kylewm/indieweb-summit-2016-b9e438fc0087 and then archived just the text to my site" https://kylewm.com/2016/06/caught-me-i-originally-posted-here-https-medium-com
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KevinMarks I think they translate to amp equivalents. Need to experiment
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[shaners] !tell Tantek phone backgrounds sound like a lovely idea. Will you or someone make a list of dimensions to target please?
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Loqi [shaners]: [tantek] left you a message 35 minutes ago: what do you think of offering phone backgrounds with the new logo? E.g. I tried to set the new logo (square version) to be an iOS bg and iOS just stretched it too wide (cropping it). http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-11/line/1465666344037
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Jeena wow, nice one Facebook http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/11/11908500/facebook-moments-auto-sync-notice-deletion
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message on 6/9 at 9:19am: could you confirm your location for next week's HWC and create an Indie Event (and FB POSSE copy) for it? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-15-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-09/line/1465489183059
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Loqi [indieweb] "IndieWeb Summit 2016 — Medium" by diplix https://medium.com/@kylewm/indieweb-summit-2016-b9e438fc0087#.hsxyejvag
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Loqi [indieweb] "“I also still very strongly recommend that creative people keep their own blogs, preferably with their own domains” @scalzi #indieweb http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/06/11/how-blogs-work-today/" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/i-also-still-very-strongly-recommend-that-creative-people-keep
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KevinMarks Great indieweb statement from scalzi
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[kevinmarks] Shaners: I think you need to target aspect ratios rather than dimensions, as that is much more tractable
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[shaners] kevinmarks: All the same, I need to make files at certain pixel size. I can’t just tell Sketch to make a 9:16 file.
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Loqi [indieweb] "ix mag etwas auf kylewm.com" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9992/1/0/
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aaronpk iphone 6s is 1920x1080 iirc
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aaronpk oops no it's actually 1242 x 2208
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aaronpk http://www.kylejlarson.com/blog/iphone-6-screen-size-web-design-tips/
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Loqi iPhone 6 Screen Size and Web Design Tips
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miklb bear would looking at my travis file help?
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Loqi miklb: bear left you a message 2 hours, 9 minutes ago: I have a draft circleci config - but I don't grok jekyll yet enough to know if I have it right - let me know when you want to work on it http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-11/line/1465666354726
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Is https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k-micropub still the library you're using for your site?
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aaronpk hmm no, that was the last version
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gRegorLove Ah. Is there a newer, public version?
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gRegorLove I can just reference the spec if not
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aaronpk it's not public yet
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earthbound.io blog created /User:Earthbound.io_blog (+105) "silly test blurb that may stay here forever" (view diff)
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earthbound.io blog edited /User:Earthbound.io_blog (+56) (view diff)
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KevinMarks1 i mean android screens are all kinds of pixel sizes, but only a few aspect ratios
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aaronpk probably best to make a graphic that's the highest pixel size out of all the phones and with enough vertical and horizontal padding that it can be cropped to any aspect ratio by the phone
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KevinMarks1 Nexus 6 is 1440 x 2560 pixels so 16:9
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bear miklb indeed it would :)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @whanamura: Indieweb says that you should all be able to own your own data, to set up your own domain (twitter.com/_/status/741731712531587072)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we diagram the internet with arrows going in one side, arrows out the other side and a cloud in the middle (twitter.com/_/status/741732018778693632)
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miklb bear https://github.com/miklb/miklb.github.com/blob/jekyll/.travis.yml that repo also has the scripts called in the file. Mind you I'm doing a few extra things.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we drew it as a cloud because we didn't have to worry about what happened inside it, we could think about the ends (twitter.com/_/status/741732206637420544)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: As Tim Berners-Lee said he built on top of what Vint and co did before & just worry about the layer he was working on (twitter.com/_/status/741732758981083136)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: with Indieweb we take the existing web for granted, and build on top of that for people to connect their own sites (twitter.com/_/status/741732951352807424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: what this group has been doing has been looking at the pieces inside the cloud that aren't working for everything (twitter.com/_/status/741733124472774656)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: and replace them with other protocols that solve those problems better, fot problems you may not know you have yet (twitter.com/_/status/741733355239157760)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I want them to explain the problem they are solving for you lets start with @zooko (twitter.com/_/status/741733549636747264)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: for 20 years now I've been working on what is now Tahoe-LAFS which solves the problem of censorship and permanence of data (twitter.com/_/status/741733790767255552)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: Vint described the problems that Tahoe is all about -it's the string web because links are not so fragile (twitter.com/_/status/741733920773935104)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: I'm also working now on Zcoin which is like bitcoin but with privacy for the trasnactions (twitter.com/_/status/741734023555342336)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: Tim mentioned the absence of payment being built in, and that has turned into a weakness we need to fix (twitter.com/_/status/741734298542280704)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: I work on the IPFS project which stands for InterPlanetary File System. (twitter.com/_/status/741734563882270722)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: (twitter.com/_/status/741734569158823936)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: (twitter.com/_/status/741734575232159744)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: with IPFS developers can publish data without it being in one place - this is an upgrade to the fabric of the web (twitter.com/_/status/741734693624795136)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: while developing IPFS we realise that developers have common peer-to-peer problems so we built a library for this (twitter.com/_/status/741734841792745472)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: the problem is the web isn't always reachable, and IPFS lets you get access to things that are closer to you instead? (twitter.com/_/status/741734986039070721)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: it solves the problem of finding content on the network, you can run content or apps anywhere using ipscend (twitter.com/_/status/741735495269548032)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: I've been working on a project called ethereum a decentralised answer to HTTP POST - (twitter.com/_/status/741735652417474560)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: ethereum lets you run an application that would be on a server & allow requests to make transactions without a server (twitter.com/_/status/741735787809677312)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: a POST request is what you create when filling in a form on the web, you press a button and the server responds (twitter.com/_/status/741735940708831232)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: with ethereum you can press the button and you get a response without having to have a server set up? (twitter.com/_/status/741736062872096770)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: Indeed, it all happens magically. It's very good. (twitter.com/_/status/741736138164047872)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: I work on webtorrent - this is a torrent client that runs in the browser, that is native to the web (twitter.com/_/status/741736272151097345)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: the torrent protocol is the most successful widely deployed peer to peer protocol in the world (twitter.com/_/status/741736351939330048)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: but bittorrent and bitcoin and tor all are applications that you have to install, not use through the web (twitter.com/_/status/741736450253828096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: so the goal of webtorrent was to make the bittorrent protocol work natively on a webpage (twitter.com/_/status/741736517673062402)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: so I as a website owner could make the videos on my site be hosted in a peer to peer way (twitter.com/_/status/741736617057062912)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: the visitors to my site watching the videos could help distribute them to other people watching webtorrent.io (twitter.com/_/status/741736751325155328)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: so the problem you're solving is "i want to post my videos, but not to the centralized place" (twitter.com/_/status/741736920137490433)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: it's more general: if I'm a scientist with a big dataset I can stream from 1 computer to another without intermeidaries (twitter.com/_/status/741737096809963520)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I can see some overlap here, but I don't want to get the projects fight that solve the same kind of thing (twitter.com/_/status/741737389589204992)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: whatwe look for as users is does this abstraction work for me? do I need to do some special thing to make it happen? (twitter.com/_/status/741737570472726529)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: the tension is between centralized and decentralized in cycles (twitter.com/_/status/741737668078407680)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: you first build one version in one place and it is centralized, then other people copy it and make it decentralized (twitter.com/_/status/741737775083458560)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: if you get it right and make it a protocol, then someone makes it a business, does a good job and everyone goes there (twitter.com/_/status/741738266928517120)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: it ends up recentralized then - youtube is good example of that for video becasue it was easier than your own site (twitter.com/_/status/741738459556122625)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: another example in the programming world is github - git is a decentralized protocol (twitter.com/_/status/741738569098768388)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but github made a central site that was a good place to share your code with other people and centralized (twitter.com/_/status/741738826327031808)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we've had a big wave of centralization and things ending up in silos for one company (twitter.com/_/status/741739138345533440)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: I think github isn't quite right, as competitors could up their game if they did it badly (twitter.com/_/status/741739235439464448)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: the providers give a relatively small service adn the protocol still is decentralized enough that we could move (twitter.com/_/status/741739411495387136)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: think of the damage that will happen in the meantime - there will be lots of broken URLs (twitter.com/_/status/741739608749309952)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: right, I use github for my code and I would never move anywhere else because there would be a lot of broken links to it (twitter.com/_/status/741739753813463040)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: the web breaks piecemeal, because individual links go down site by site - it's resilient or antifragile as it heals (twitter.com/_/status/741739952665440256)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but people build a better service that puts all the links on one server so they stay up (twitter.com/_/status/741740081363464192)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but they are creating fragility debt - they get taken over or make a management mistake and it fails in one go (twitter.com/_/status/741740241200001024)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we lose all of geocities overnight, for example. (twitter.com/_/status/741740309080608770)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: one of the challenges of the centralizartion/decentralization process is that a site death can take out a big chunk (twitter.com/_/status/741740492405243904)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: it take s along time to heal from that big chunk vanishing. how do your decentralizations defend us from that? (twitter.com/_/status/741740637838561280)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: the lesson from the github topic is that the links matter we have to make it start at the layer of the URL (twitter.com/_/status/741740795657609216)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: Tahoe-LAFS urls are the centre of the architecture (twitter.com/_/status/741740866906230784)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: git vs github is key -github gives us a nice UI to the underlying decentralized git protocol (twitter.com/_/status/741741019620859904)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: whereas facebook does not have decentralized data underneath so it would be harder to move to a new place from that (twitter.com/_/status/741741142421721088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: i'm sure facebook does have decentralized underlying data storage but the rest of us don't have access to it (twitter.com/_/status/741741267021889536)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: I'd call that distributed rather than decentralized (twitter.com/_/status/741741316191727616)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: we're really talking about the user experiecne and the developer experience (twitter.com/_/status/741741432483024896)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Move to Moments, or Facebook Will Delete Your Synced Mobile Photos" by David Z. Morris http://fortune.com/2016/06/11/moments-facebook-mobile-photos/
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: we want to give our users the ability to asccess the app independent of the network they are connected to (twitter.com/_/status/741741512338345984)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: the way the web works today does not provide enough resilience to provide access whereever we are (twitter.com/_/status/741741620937248768)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: we're very used to high connectivity, but ehen we moeve to a more diconnected environemnt wiht high latency (twitter.com/_/status/741741775501557760)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: and if the servers are far away the experience crashes (twitter.com/_/status/741741866043990016)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: and that's why I think the web is losing on mobile (twitter.com/_/status/741741920691625985)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: well, it's not losing on mobile to a distributed system (twitter.com/_/status/741742002526670849)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: each app is building a little browser that only works on one website and handles its own caching (twitter.com/_/status/741742107916947457)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: the apps aren't decentralized but they have superior user experience in terms of networking (twitter.com/_/status/741742482971602944)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: this is starting to change web standardization like service workers in the browser do allow offline apps (twitter.com/_/status/741742621312331776)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: the ux is what matters in all these things (twitter.com/_/status/741742669223854080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: the distributed social networks lost out to the centralized 1 because making choices is harder, and 1 iterated well (twitter.com/_/status/741742853680988160)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: i think that decentralization vs centralization is orthogonal to bad ux vs good ux (twitter.com/_/status/741743087639265285)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: i know many centralized systems with awful ux (twitter.com/_/status/741743452099121152)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I worked on opensocial at google -we tried to build a process where you could write an app and run it on any network (twitter.com/_/status/741743626607284224)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but each network wanted to make themselves special, and facebook was big enough to say 'use our api instead' (twitter.com/_/status/741743770580996096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we'll give you access to more users if you use ours (twitter.com/_/status/741743866240507904)
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@jeena @peakwinter I think it should reuse what's there instead of reinventin. I like how the #IndieWebCamp collects what is working already. (twitter.com/_/status/741743984318525440)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: the problem there may well be tryign to overlay openness on an oligopoly rather than rebuilding fully decentralized (twitter.com/_/status/741744014081298432)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: that's fair - we were building on the structures we had - we built oauth as a way to trust one silo with another silo (twitter.com/_/status/741744166980493312)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but not a pure edge to edge communication you still needed servers (twitter.com/_/status/741744272114876417)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: one difference is that facebooks centralized social network site is massively profitable because it is excludable (twitter.com/_/status/741744444509171713)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: and facebook therefore has enough money to be able to afford better ux (twitter.com/_/status/741744550906073088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: and that is more important then the distributed things and making choices (twitter.com/_/status/741744629662552064)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: but if you have enough money you can fix those problems (twitter.com/_/status/741744676089278464)
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KartikPrabhu oh is this the delayed notes tweet?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: by exclude you mena only facebook can show ads on our site, or github can charge to keep private (twitter.com/_/status/741744863926996992)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: github is more usable because it can afford to spend that revenue on making it so (twitter.com/_/status/741744974048432128)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: so to turn that round, how can you make your systems excludable so people can make money on them to improve the ux? (twitter.com/_/status/741745091493171201)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: I don't know - I don't want exclusivity - I don't want most of humanity excluded from somehting - (twitter.com/_/status/741745207125938176)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yup
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Loqi snarfed: j4y_funabashi left you a message 11 hours, 33 minutes ago: sorry about that, I turned off my webmention parsing a while ago and planning to rewrite it all this weekend re http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-25/line/1464184657862 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-11/line/1465639246958
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snarfed aaronpk: congrats on porting ownyourgram to scraping!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: some kind of vague but exciting business model that are decentralized that don't have the option of excluding (twitter.com/_/status/741745437368029184)
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tantek since it's delayed I'm curious about the typos - like presumably KevinMarks could fix them before they got tweeted or POSSEd to twitter right?
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Loqi tantek: [shaners] left you a message 3 hours, 26 minutes ago: phone backgrounds sound like a lovely idea. Will you or someone make a list of dimensions to target please? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-11/line/1465668501199
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: ethereum is the leader of that - how humans can organise wihtout exclusion (twitter.com/_/status/741745529969860608)
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tantek also I'm considering flipping my Twitter to public *during* conferences in order to engage in real time hashtag conversations etc
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: successful things like facebook had a good ui before they were profitable (twitter.com/_/status/741745637021089792)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: that's because they had investment to build a good ui so they could make profits (twitter.com/_/status/741745772241297408)
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tantek !tell shaners sure dimensions request is reasonable. I'm going to be biased and ask for iPod Touch 5 (also iPhone 5) first :) 1,136 by 640
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: i remember circa 1997 google had just one search box which was a better ui than alta vista (twitter.com/_/status/741745898460487680)
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@sikkdays @jeena @peakwinter That is admirable how #IndieWebCamp does that. However, I'd be happier with a social system like email versus syndication (twitter.com/_/status/741745912670609409)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: If I go to a vc and say "i want to build this thing where I have no control" they aren't going to give me money (twitter.com/_/status/741746034502696960)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: some of them are - there are VCs like USV who are funding OpenBazaar (twitter.com/_/status/741746156796018690)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: we have to be aware of all the unfair advantages he centralized systems had at the beginning (twitter.com/_/status/741746238282969088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: we had to accept all these firewalls so it is now possible to connect to my neighbours house even if we (twitter.com/_/status/741746362472124416)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: the networks were designed with centralization in mind, so it's easier to build that (twitter.com/_/status/741746478738182144)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I'll push back a bit - the web was designed to let you have servers everywhere, but client server design took over (twitter.com/_/status/741746647001137152)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: now we can't host services from our homes any more (twitter.com/_/status/741746704643457024)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: if you wanted to run something in the browser, until WebRTC you had to connect back to a server first (twitter.com/_/status/741746839767113728)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: I have to talk to a server to get to his laptop next to mine (twitter.com/_/status/741746920268402688)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: the centralization that si there by design is that you need a web server (twitter.com/_/status/741747003365990401)
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[znmeb] kevinmarks: I have a hacked template for h-entry working now - see https://gitlab.com/znmeb/borasky-research-journal/blob/master/_hentry.html
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: but what changed from Tim's day is that you can't run a webserver on your own machine and have anyone see it (twitter.com/_/status/741747148501463040)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: if all these things work well together, we still have to first go to a server to get the connection (twitter.com/_/status/741747458045313024)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: do we need a way to request a static resource from one of these (twitter.com/_/status/741747555567013888)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: in brewsters demo he had to go to a server, but now we can run an ipfs node purely in the browser (twitter.com/_/status/741747706872377345)
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[znmeb] kevinmarks: it turns out you can specify an explicit template in the top-level site YAML file https://gitlab.com/znmeb/borasky-research-journal/blob/master/_site.yml so there's little ugliness
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: can you explain who pays for all this decentralized stuff? I have a big web hosting bill - can I dump this on you? (twitter.com/_/status/741747867946225664)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: people seem to think that you can have content up there permanently that no-one pays for (twitter.com/_/status/741747929006903298)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @feross: one answer is to align incentives in the system: with bittorrent you have to share to get access - we call it tit for tat (twitter.com/_/status/741748122485936130)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: at the moment users sell their identity and the advertising space on their screens to provide them wiht the content (twitter.com/_/status/741748260713463808)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: maybe they'll have micropayments to pay the sites they're using, or maybe the bandwidth will come from their machines (twitter.com/_/status/741748421858590720)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: there could be micropayments to the users for their hosting and payments to the sites for the content (twitter.com/_/status/741748534668578816)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: one of the thingd that bitcoin taught us is that it possible to put value on the network, not a central service (twitter.com/_/status/741748718962151424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @daviddias: you can incentivize file storage on the network by paying to the nodes that have files available -see filecoin (twitter.com/_/status/741748869499920384)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: you get 4 answers as it was a very good question (twitter.com/_/status/741748933966368768)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: there is a model where you still pay as currently for hosting, but you are not vulnerable fro them to spy on you (twitter.com/_/status/741749077059198976)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @zooko: we can use security to separate the links from the hosting (twitter.com/_/status/741749159494098944)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: any kind of consensus process has scaling limit beyond which it becomes centralised, but ethereum is trying something else (twitter.com/_/status/741749350041280513)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb q: bitcoin has thin clients wihtout having to bear the costs of a full node - can ethereum have thin clients? (twitter.com/_/status/741749477783015424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: the go team have prototype of a thin client; we'er working on a hybrid client that syncs fast but is still a node (twitter.com/_/status/741749651578228736)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @gavofyork: because ethereum is an app platform, the problems are magnified compared to bitcoin (twitter.com/_/status/741749758864314368)
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KartikPrabhu what is ethereum
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Loqi Ethereum is a project that implements a bitcoin/cryptocurrency like block chain used for sending around "contracts" https://indiewebcamp.com/Ethereum
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @Johannes_Ernst: Thank you for pointing out the elephant in the room - centralization allows tollbooths that produce businesses (twitter.com/_/status/741750242274607105)
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KevinMarks1 oh crap, I did all that wiht the wrong hashtag? sorry chaps
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@kevinmarks #dwebsummit #indieweb - uh oh, I did all that tweeting with the wrong hashtag. sorry to both groups (twitter.com/_/status/741750812544622592)
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KevinMarks1 if I fixed all the typos I'd have to watch it at half speed. I am actually a terrible typist
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KevinMarks1 alsoI'm on the chromebook, i think the mac fixes my transpositions
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@kevinmarks My delayed notes from Wednesday's #DWebSummit http://www.kevinmarks.com/decentralweb2016-06-08.html Edits for typos at https://github.com/login?return_to=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fkevinmarks%2Fkevin-marks.com%2Fedit%2Fmaster%2Fweb%2Findex.html please #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/741757452924813314)
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@mcmire this is rad. http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/741758255815229440)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-06-15-homebrew-website-club (+145) "SF 18:30 start & no quiet writing hour this time, back to usual time & place next week!" (view diff)
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miklb hmm, wonder what I did wrong, bridgy still added link even with omit_link=true
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znmeb everything seems to check out - site is https://www.znmeb.mobi
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Loqi M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
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znmeb not much content yet - I need to make more templates for posts, notes, etc.
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kylewm looking good on the microformats front, znmeb
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znmeb it turned out to be easier than I thought - R Markdown lets you specify an HTML template in the YAML front matter for a post or for the whole site
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znmeb most of the posts will be using a new RStudio gizmo called "Flexdashboards" - http://rmarkdown.rstudio.com/flexdashboard/
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