#indiewebcamp 2016-06-21

2016-06-21 UTC
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[tfg4k] Anyone around want to give me a hand getting set up, I think I could help write up a more concise and friendly how-to for newer people.. if anyone has the time. Just a thought.
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[tfg4k] or to put it another way, who should i submit a better getting-started article to once i get set up
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aaronpk you're welcome to just edit the page directly!
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[tfg4k] cool
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[tfg4k] never contributed to a project like this before so i apologize for the elementary questions. Thanks all!
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aaronpk no problem at all! The first step to editing the wiki is logging in, which hopefully isn't too painful. Have you set that up yet?
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[tfg4k] not as of yet. I just realized how to get set up.
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[tfg4k] (this is going to be cool)
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[shaners] Anyone know of a canonical list of timezone offsets / timezone names (or cities in that timezone)? Preferably as a hash or array of arrays that I can easily copy paste.
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mikeputnam waves
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mikeputnam We're sitting in a meetup discussing IndieWebCamp via this blog post: https://eventswrangling.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/indieweb-and-pdh-talking-points-for-coder-cooperative-june-20-meetup/
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aaronpk http://www.geonames.org/ has some
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christophe.ducamp.me created /wikifying-fr (+13171) "[fr: translation of wikifying] " (view diff)
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christophe.ducamp.me edited /User:Christophe.ducamp.me (+214) "wikifying : sketching and dreaming to build an [[invitation]] and invite my children ;)" (view diff)
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christophe.ducamp.me created /home-fr (+7594) "[fr: translation of home - to be studied]" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started (+100) "/* Connect & getting help */ Update default link to web chat, sub-bullet for Slack and alternatives pointing to /IRC" (view diff)
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christophe.ducamp.me created /personal_domain-fr (+32) "#redirect [[personal-domain-fr]]" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I wonder about sending people away from /Getting_Started to indiewebify.me as the first step. indiewebify.me is great for the validators but is it confusing to send people there for step-by-step guidance when /Getting_Started is also supposed to be step-by-step?
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gRegorLove /Getting_Started#Set_up_your_home_page_and_web_sign-in is the first step where indiewebify.me comes into play
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acegiak morning, all
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aaronpk good morning
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bear !tell shaners the one I always use is within the official TZ database at http://www.iana.org/time-zones
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegorLove TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Microformats
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[shaners] thx bear
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Loqi [shaners]: bear left you a message 2 minutes ago: the one I always use is within the official TZ database at http://www.iana.org/time-zones http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-20/line/1466472029927
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bear it's in the file zone.tab
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bear oh poo - you want the city names, zones and offsets
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bear that is just the country code and city names
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bear digs
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bear I always go to the source because I want it to be current - if you don't mind a bit of dated-ness you can use some of the secondary sites
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bear unless you can use things like npm - then this is also good https://timezonedb.com/download or spelunk thru the references here https://www.iana.org/time-zones/repository/tz-link.html
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[shaners] I ended up using `rake time:zones:all`, bear
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bear ah, that also works!
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[shaners] And then put them in the database in a timezones table
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aaronpk oh nice "Rails’ ActiveSupport::TimeZone is a wrapper around TZInfo that limits the set of zones provided by TZInfo to a meaningful subset of 146 zones."
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aaronpk could probably just query `ActiveSupport::TimeZone` directly
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[shaners] aaronpk: I still want them in the db. But `ActiveSupport::TimeZone` will make my migration cleaner. :+1::skin-tone-2:
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aaronpk kewl
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gregorlove.com created /Template:Infobox_person (+460) "Initial version" (view diff)
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KevinMarks so named timezones for UI, but numeric offsets for stored data?
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aaronpk numeric offsets when rendering a specific timestamp, but named timezones for storing before it's used
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KevinMarks for recurring events?
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aaronpk nono recurring events are a different story.
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aaronpk IMO the best way to handle recurring events is to not handle recurring events
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Infobox_person (-23) (view diff)
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aaronpk calagator.org takes this approach and does well with it
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KevinMarks indeed, recurring events are most of what makes calendaring painful
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[shaners] kevinmarks: it’s for people’s timezone offset. I’m storing the number (-0800), but also providing place names in the choosing ui for additional convenience.
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aaronpk [shaners]: DST means you have to store two offsets as well as the dates that they change. timezone name encodes all of that info in a single value.
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[tfg4k] Finally got set up so I can login to contribute. Sorry for the massive delay. Very excited though.
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[shaners] :disappointed: I effing hate DST
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aaronpk yuppp
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bear yea DST is *fun* ... you get to deal with "Africa/Cairo observes DST in 2016 from July 7 to the end of October.
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bear Guess October 27 and 24:00 transitions. (Thanks to Steffen Thorsen.)
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bear For future years, guess April's last Thursday to October's last
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bear Thursday except for Ramadan."
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[shaners] tfg4k: Great job!
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aaronpk the super ridiculous/annoying part is the US changed the dates that DST starts and ends a couple years ago so...
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aaronpk just store timezone name and then most of the date libraries deal with it correctly
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[tfg4k] shaners: Thing is, this is superdope as an idea, it should be way easier to set up. Im going to draft a couple of howto's and put them on my site i set up for this specifically as I continue to RTFM
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bear that's why I always store UTC offsets and offer UI text from the OS specified timezone datafile
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aaronpk in my individual posts i store the UTC offset since i don't care about whether it was DST when I want to display the date for a post
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bear javascript - use moments.js; python - use pytz; ruby (forget); perl use DateTime cpan
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aaronpk sometimes i think i should write up a guide on best practices for handling timezones
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[shaners] Sounds amazing, tfg4k. We always appreciate more new comer input bc we’re always try to make it easier.
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aaronpk this is one thing i feel like i have pretty well figured out on my site and not a lot of other people handle it well
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bear do you display comments with the TZ info for the sender?
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aaronpk if available yes
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aaronpk i'm actually on the fence about whether that makes sense or to show it in my timezone, but either way i definitely store the timezone offset of the commenter
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bear then i'll have to send you a webmention on hour before DST change over and then see how it displays an hour after
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aaronpk hehe
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bear working on chandler and cosmo, the most fun times were DST changes and new year
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bear all of the date/time handling bugs showed up then
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aaronpk https://31.media.tumblr.com/d8a8fa83d46e444910e484bbf07f38eb/tumblr_inline_nsp86t3qGv1rvkz2p_500.gif
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bear LOL
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@intelligentcrwd @indiewebcamp Hi, IndieWebCamp here's a free classroom app. Could you give it a try? https://spiral.ac/r/t_thing39 https://twitter.com/mark_spiral/status/659286910884560896/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745076069737316352)
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aaronpk nope
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[shaners] FINALLY!
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gRegorLove A small step towards simplifying the process of adding an h-card to a user page: https://indiewebcamp.com/Template:Infobox_person
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gRegorLove The info to create a sparkline signature could be extracted from that, though I'm not sure how (in MediaWiki terms)
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GWG Did I miss acegiak?
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acegiak still here!
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GWG Long time no speak.
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GWG Hoping to hear that life got less busy
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acegiak GWG: only more busy. But I'm thinking of helping emily switch her site to known so I should be around here a bit more
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acegiak albeit casually and slow to respond
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GWG acegiak: Hosted Known is going away
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GWG acegiak: I feel like we're losing the WordPress base
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david.shanske.com edited /indieweb.org (+21) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /indieweb.org (+1) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /indieweb.org (+3) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /indieweb.org (+683) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /indieweb.org (+481) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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acegiak wait, self hosted known is disappearing?
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GWG No. Hosted Known.
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GWG Not Self-Hosted Known
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GWG Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought that was what it was.
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petermolnar_ morning
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petermolnar_ I skipped ~5 days, anything new?
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j4y_funabashi hey petermolnar_ I got webmention sending working and sent a few likes your way :)
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petermolnar_ I got them, yes, and thank you :)
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j4y_funabashi went on a bit of a detour, tweaked the design and rewrote my datastore to be html+microformats - now that all seems to be working I am back on the long road to implementing swat0
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@kevinmarks "the web is bigger than google, it's bigger than chrome, it's bigger than any browser" - @slightlylate #pwadevsummit #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/745162620760555520)
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petermolnar_ what is swat0?
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0 and is a user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined in 2010 https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0
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j4y.co edited /photo (+184) "/* Added myself to IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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j4y.co edited /like (+139) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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cweiske rhiaro, I don't see any content on your pages... http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2016-06-21%20rhiaro%20broken.png
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cweiske hm. seems as if I don't get all of the HTML
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cweiske might be our local proxy
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cweiske seems to be the chunked transfer encoding you're using
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petermolnar_ cweiske it's not just you
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petermolnar_ !tell rhiaro your site is broken, see 4 lines above in the log, pic from cweiske
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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cweiske petermolnar_, it works with curl on my remote server
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cweiske it does not work here in the office
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cweiske in which i use a http proxy
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rhiaro Intermittent, reload a few times
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petermolnar_ cweiske I don't see a high chance that we're in the same office, but who knows :D
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rhiaro Dunno why
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cweiske rhiaro, are you using chunked transfer encoding for a reason?
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rhiaro I wouldn't know how I'd wanted to
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rhiaro s/I'd/if i
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: I wouldn't know how if i wanted to
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cweiske to send out static HTML at first, so that the user sees something, and then do the heavy calculations that take time and send their results afterwards
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cweiske 1st chunk static html, 2nd chunk the dynamic things
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cweiske our admin says the proxy is not active
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j4y_funabashi !tell snarfed - I am going to retry implementing POSSE through brid.gy, could you unblock my IP?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bear it's behaving differently between firefox and chrome, may be an http/2 difference or the litespeed server default of chunked gzip as default
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@IndieWebCampDE Morgen: #IndieWeb Hack Day auf der @openSUSE-Konferenz im @zbau_nbg. Der Kickstart für die eigene Domain! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/745186539265753088)
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@jkphl @maddesigns Der soll mal lieber meinem Rat folgen, untertauchen und spontan die Hufe zum #IndieWeb Hack Day morgen schwingen! +@webrocker (twitter.com/_/status/745190639550210048)
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notizblog.org edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+420) "/* Regrets */" (view diff)
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petermolnar_ who's up for registering emoji domains? http://jerrygamblin.com/2016/06/19/emojis-in-domain-and-hostnames/
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Loqi Emoji’s in Domain and Hostnames
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@border_none If you care for your data, own it! Join us for #IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg tmrrw and #indiewebify your site: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/745201685572751360)
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@egoexpress @jkphl Yay. Just in time for the #indieweb hack day! (twitter.com/_/status/745212599134990336)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp
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tantek.com edited /JavaScript (+12) "/* See Also */ jsdr" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi morning tantek
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jihaisse renewal
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@cryplectibles The internet: Reweaving the web #OpenBazaar #IFPS #BigchainDB #Storj #Onename #IndieWeb http://www.economist.com/news/business/21700642-slew-startups-trying-decentralise-online-world-reweaving-web?fsrc=scn%2Ftw_ec%2Freweaving_the_web via @TheEconomist (twitter.com/_/status/745246668338106368)
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Loqi [indieweb] "microformats.org at 11" http://tantek.com/2016/173/b1/microformats-org-at-11
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GWG Morning
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@jkphl Packing stuff for tomorrow's #IndieWeb Hack Day. Fancy hacking on your own site? Drop by! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745257903490220032/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745257903490220032)
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sknebel oh wow, not looking at the channel for 24h and more backlog than in a week normally
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j4y_funabashi Woohoo! just got person-tags working!
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sknebel j4y_funabashi++ cool
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Loqi j4y_funabashi has 3 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme j4y_funabashi++ nice! add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag
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Loqi j4y_funabashi has 4 karma
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j4y_funabashi which means I can now do step 1 for person A in swat0! slowly inching my way closer :)
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j4y.co edited /person-tag (+313) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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[snarfed] oh btw j4y_funabashi bridgy isn't blocking you now. it only did for a day or two, a while back
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Loqi [snarfed]: j4y_funabashi left you a message 7 hours, 20 minutes ago: - I am going to retry implementing POSSE through brid.gy, could you unblock my IP? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-21/line/1466499556986
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[snarfed] and hey now you can try posseing your person tags too
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j4y_funabashi [snarfed]: awesome, thank you - that was one of my main reasons for implementing person-tag :)
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j4y_funabashi [snarfed]: so does bridgy send person-tags to facebook?
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tantek greetings briefly
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[snarfed] yup! https://brid.gy/about#publish-types
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j4y_funabashi cool
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@pi1ch Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown: http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sharing-from-the-indieweb-on-mobile-android-with-apps-and (twitter.com/_/status/745293118140932098)
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tantek j4y_funabashi: yes+1 - have been doing it for a while - works great - be sure to link to the FB ID of the person
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[snarfed] and if you want to swat0, you can even try silo swat0 :P
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[snarfed] https://snarfed.org/silo-swat0-on-facebook
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Silo SWAT0 on Facebook
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j4y_funabashi ok is the FB ID the person's profile url?
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[snarfed] nah, numeric id. profile URL works too but a bit less reliable
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[snarfed] it handles personal web site links too, but only to other bridgy users
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j4y_funabashi will bridgy pick it up if I create a post with https://www.facebook.com/jay.funabashi00xx.940436 as the h-card url in the person-tag
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tantek j4y_funabashi: pretty sure I noted something about the FB ID on the /person-tag page - check that
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[snarfed] probably yes
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j4y_funabashi oh yeah, you have <a class="u-url"
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j4y_funabashi href="https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik">f</a>
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j4y_funabashi in the category h-card
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[snarfed] bridgy's support isn't documented well enough, mostly just points to the wiki. feel free to file an issue to improve that
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tantek j4y_funabashi: yeah for my own I still use the named profile URL because I myself am signed up with bridgy
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tantek though I could always use numerical FB IDs just to make it easier to copy/paste for others
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tantek hmmm...
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tantek designing for copy/pasteability
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tantek sounds like a Stack Overflow pattern ;)
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j4y_funabashi haha yeah
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j4y_funabashi my main use case is quickly tagging my FB friends and pasting in their FB profile url would be easiest on mobile
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j4y_funabashi hmm doesn't look like it possed the person tags to fb when using the profile url
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[snarfed] check the bridgy publish log to see how it parsed and interpreted your markup
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[snarfed] also try re-signing up for bridgy with fb to make sure your access token has the tag permission
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[snarfed] (sorry for the trouble btw!)
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j4y_funabashi no problem at all, bridgy is awesome. I think it is not showing up on FB is because I tagged myself
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j4y_funabashi so the log says {
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j4y_funabashi "url": "https://www.facebook.com/jay.funabashi00xx.940436",
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j4y_funabashi "displayName": "@https://www.facebook.com/jay.funabashi00xx.940436",
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j4y_funabashi "objectType": "person"
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j4y_funabashi }
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[snarfed] yeah you're probably right
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[snarfed] actually it isn't showing the person tags in the preview, and it would if it understood them, so I'm not sure
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[snarfed] definitely file an issue if you can't get it to work!
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j4y_funabashi oh ok I didnt know if it would show them in the preview
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j4y_funabashi I have tried tagging someone else with their profile url and that hasnt worked either - will give it a few more tries
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aaronpk [shaners] this is kind of like what we were talking about with the reader project this weekend :-) https://slackhq.com/get-more-done-with-message-buttons-5fa5b283a59
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@pfefferle @jkphl hätte ich gewusst dass es aufkleber gibt... ;) @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/745313992613076992)
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@jkphl @pfefferle Ja siehste! Noch isses nicht zu spät! ;) +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/745314610937475072)
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@KanalNuernberg jkphl pfefferle Ja siehste! Noch isses nicht zu spät! ;) +indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745314610937475072 https://twitter.com/KanalNuernberg/status/745314996146544640/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745314996146544640)
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@kevinmarks @missrogue @tempo archive has it https://web.archive.org/web/20111109001734/http://thormuller.com/netpositive/2006/03/02/here-come-the-scrapis/ indieweb formalises some of this too (twitter.com/_/status/745323531555078144)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Why Facebook's new Open Graph makes us all part of the web underclass | Technology | The Guardian" by Andreas Petersell https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/sep/27/facebook-open-graph-web-underclass
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@m_ott @jkphl @iwontsignuphere @indiewebcamp Oh, schöne neue Sticker! (twitter.com/_/status/745324809198968832)
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@jkphl @m_ott Ja, hat @iwontsignuphere frisch aus Portland importiert. Haben im Moment leider nur noch 2 davon ... +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/745325820932136962)
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@m_ott @jkphl @iwontsignuphere @indiewebcamp Erster und zweiter Preis für die besten Demos ;) (twitter.com/_/status/745326398768877568)
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@m_ott @iwontsignuphere @jkphl @indiewebcamp Ich vermute mal, dass Du Deinen Sticker schon hast? ;) (twitter.com/_/status/745328154739412992)
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GWG Afternoon
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gRegorLove Hiya GWG. How's WordPressland?
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GWG We're having troubles. There's this woman named Alice who is in WordPressland who wants to tell us all about what she does with her friend Bob
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GWG I need to do some writing on my site.
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gRegorLove :)
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gRegorLove Is Mullenweg the Matt Hatter then?
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GWG We've never met. So not sure.
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GWG But seriously, I had a great conversation with an Automattic employee about Indieweb and I want to use the chat log to write a post
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aaronpk i would enjoy reading that
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aaronpk GWG: btw your t-shirt is in the mail and you should get it by friday!
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GWG aaronpk, I don't know how to turn a good conversation into a post. I need to try and iterate.
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GWG aaronpk, and thanks.
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GWG I was getting into the missing timezone offset on WordPress sites.
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[kevinmarks] Historically Matt has been keen on microformats - he is an xfn coauthor after all
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Loqi [indieweb] "Repost of #indieweb Liz Round's tweet: Self-preservation and blogginghttps://ukhistorygeek.wordpress.com/2016/06/21/self-preservation-and-blogging" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-indieweb-liz-rounds-tweet-self-preservation-and-blogging20160621self-preservation-and-blogging-4be20bc756
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[chrisaldrich] How could we get him more into mf2 though? That could be a nice lynchpin that could create a quick seachange....
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[chrisaldrich] How I wish that the theme search tool in wordpress included a checkbox for microformats2 the way it does for microformats... it could spur some broader themer adoption of its use...
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aaronpk is that something that could be proposed to them?
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[chrisaldrich] From what I understand from GWG it introduces some backwards compatibility issues into core that require some reasonable work; but where there's a will there's a way.
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aaronpk i mean the checkbox
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[chrisaldrich] i had a conversation with some Jetpack folks last week to track down the person/group that handles the checkbox... Would certainly be easier to go from the top down, but I just don't have the contacts directly.
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[chrisaldrich] From my perspective things like mf2 and webmention are potential game changers for products like WordPress that catapult them above/beyond other silos, I'm shocked that products like disqus didn't build them 8 years ago.
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[chrisaldrich] oops, late for a meeting, back in a bit. GWG keep up the good fight!
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" http://calagator.org/events/1250470467
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aaronpk jeez that's fast
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club (-9) "+pdx" (view diff)
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aaronpk i need a "clone" button for events on my site like Calagator has
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aaronpk or an "import from h-event" button
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KevinMarks that makes sense
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KevinMarks you still will need an editor, but one that gets the data from elsewhere is smart
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aaronpk cloning on calagator is great, cause all i change is the date and the URL
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[kylewm] FB too
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KevinMarks maybe that is the way to do recurring events ratehr than try to express them
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aaronpk yes definitely
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aaronpk calagator went that route ages ago and it means there aren't years old stale recurring events left around
leg, minsky, tantek, Lancey, mlncn, AndChat|566325, goodoo and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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Loqi [indieweb] "likes Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14402-2/
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Loqi [indieweb] "likes Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14402-2/
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tantek greetings #indiewebcamp
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gRegorLove Hi tantek
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Loqi [indieweb] "Any time I think it was a bad idea to use my cat as a test user, Facebook proves me wrong #indieweb" https://kylewm.com/2016/06/any-time-i-think-it-was-a-bad-idea-to-use-my-cat
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@kylewmahan Any time I think it was a bad idea to use my cat as a test user, Facebook proves me wrong #indieweb https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/status/745401484649500673/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745401484649500673)
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tantek amazing
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acegiak GWG: interesting I would think "hosted" meant "you can put this on your machine or someone else's" as opposed to Known as a service?
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