#indiewebcamp 2016-06-22

2016-06-22 UTC
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colintedford acegiak: It's ambiguous, but I think the way I've usually seen it used (including with Wordpress) is to meant "hosted for you", with "self-hosted" meaning your own copy.
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acegiak That makes sense. I think I've just been in too many projects with a focus on saas recently
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colintedford GWG: do you have a link handy about hosted Known going away (or does anyone else)? I don't see anything on /Known.
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GWG colintedford, I may have misunderstood, I thought I heard about it.
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colintedford GWG: I don't see anything in their blog, but the only signups available are paid ones aimed at groups, so hmm.
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colintedford Oh! You know what, I think I remember they closed new signups for now because of a spam problem or similar.
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[kylewm] free signups were turned off quite a while ago
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colintedford Yeah, I'd forgotten about it.
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colintedford I can't find the original mention of it, but it came up in January. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-20/line/1453330877753
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Loqi [tantek] aaronpk, gRegorLove I believe the explanation was something like, spammers had figured out how to automate (script) creation of new withknown accounts....
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GWG I, honestly, was only half paying attention at the time.
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colintedford Well, I've satisfied my curiosity now, so all is well. :)
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[benatwork] New signups weren’t stopped because of spam (which was trivially stopped with an activation email); it just wasn’t cost-effective
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[kylewm] that is weird that that message from tantek came apparently from loqi
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aaronpk Loqi was quoting the old IRC line
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[kylewm] ohhh
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@cadete_kdt #Webmention is a #W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 (twitter.com/_/status/745421180278968320)
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aaronparecki.com edited /RSS_Atom_wars (+106) "add presentation about RSS/Atom wars" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow the Atom protocol had an HTTP header to request the server use the given slug in the URL
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aaronpk http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/protocol/#slug
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aaronparecki.com created /rss-vs-atom (+26) "create redirect for better URL" (view diff)
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[kylewm] why on earth would that be sent in a header
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aaronpk because the payload was the atom XML of the post itself
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KevinMarks and it can return the created slug in the returned header?
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aaronpk point is it somewhat validates my use of the "slug" parameter in micropub
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aaronpk but now considering calling it "mp-slug" since it's not really a microformat property
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KevinMarks it is a metaproperty?
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aaronpk "mp" metaproperty?
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KevinMarks oh mp for micropub derp
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KevinMarks so mp is for the wrapping bits and bare ones fro the contents?
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aaronpk yeah
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KevinMarks needs to read the spec again
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aaronpk it's hot off the press https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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aaronpk is creating slides for tomorrow's talk and realizing that the first date mentioned in the slides is 1997 and that is almost 20 years ago
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aaronpk http://archive.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/news/2007/12/blog_anniversary
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aaronpk "Blogs have come a long way since Dec. 17, 1997, when Jorn Barger coined the term "weblog" to describe the list of links on his Robot Wisdom website that "logged" his internet wanderings."
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colintedford Thanks, benatwork, now my curiosity is satisfied *accurately*.
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GWG And I don't have to try to remember what was going on
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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aaronpk 543 days 14 hours until the 20th anniversary of the "Blog" http://archive.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/news/2007/12/blog_anniversary
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 12/17 8:30am (#5855)
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aaronpk heh tantek is in this screenshot of twitter from 2007 https://www.flickr.com/photos/briansolis/2104355268
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Loqi [indieweb] "Why do you feel this way ? Personally I am glad that Known empowered me to get into the indieWeb :-)" by Hugo (@hugo) http://seenthis.net/messages/495274
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[benatwork] heh
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colintedford.com edited /indieweb.org (+173) "mention & link 2016 leaders summit sessions for minimal context" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieweb.org (+494) (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, not sure this is working with https urls
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aaronpk crap i just realized that by dropping the form-encoded syntax for micropub updates, there is now no reason to use the "mp-" prefix on updates
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aaronpk it should just be "action" instead of "mp-action"
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KevinMarks hm, editing the templtes doesn't seem to change the output
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GWG Anyone know a lot about the RSS specification off the top of their head?
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GWG I need to know something as a point of reference.
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GWG And the link I'm following seems to be broken
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GWG The approved time format for RSS.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Experimenting with collapsible woodwind at http://104.196.131.91:8080/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/experimenting-with-collapsible-woodwind-at-8080-indieweb
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KevinMarks__ Rss and time is a bloody mess
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KevinMarks__ http://pythonhosted.org/feedparser/date-parsing.html
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GWG KevinMarks__: Figured.
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KevinMarks__ Are you generating or reading?
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GWG KevinMarks__: Neither. Making an argument
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KevinMarks__ Another reason to use atom imo
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KevinMarks__ It may make sense for the entries to be expanded by default and easy to collapse.
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KevinMarks_ Hm. I need to look more carefully at the notes as I thought they would just have name, not just content
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KevinMarks_ I need to check Summary ha
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KevinMarks_ Hm, so Summary becomes content?
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GWG First of several attempts to improve theme creation on WordPress. https://david.shanske.com/2016/06/22/timezone-offsets-in-wordpress/
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Loqi [David Shanske] There is an odd implementation detail of many themes that has created a parsing problem with timestamps. It is actually a PHP issue. The below is an excerpt from _s(Underscores) that appears in a large amount of themes.
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@jkphl 🌞 On my way to the #IndieWeb Hack Day https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day It's a beautiful one! :) (twitter.com/_/status/745516216685473792)
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@KanalNuernberg jkphl 🌞 On my way to the #IndieWeb Hack Day https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day It's a beautiful one… https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745516216685473792 https://twitter.com/KanalNuernberg/status/745516731968290816/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745516731968290816)
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tantek_ good morning #indiewebcamp
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tantek_ aaronpk++ for making the web UI work - here at a network port constrained location and it seems to be working
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Loqi aaronpk has 167 karma
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KevinMarks_ Morning
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j4y_funabashi Ok next up on swat0 todo list: receiving webmentions from reply posts, and showing them as comments, properly marked up. This is going to be fun :)
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cweiske The "scoped" attribute for <style> will/has been removed from HTML5 - https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/552
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cweiske this means that we'll never really be able to apply original styles in responses when embedding them on our own pages
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cweiske :/
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tantek_ cweiske, in practice "scoped" has been insufficient to make that work cross-browser anyway
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cweiske "in practise" means the last two years
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cweiske by removing it from the spec, there is no chance that it will ever get better
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tantek_ I mean, for those of us that tried and deployed anything
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tantek_ cweiske, scoped was only really implemented in Firefox
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[kevinmarks] Can you use an iframe for that?. With srcdoc
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tantek_ not if you want salmentions to work
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tantek_ screwing up the markup with iframe just to make custom *styling* work is an inversion of priorities
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tantek_ still hasn't caught up on logs since 2 days ago
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[kevinmarks] I see seamless was removed too
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[kevinmarks] There is something odd about srcdoc
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[kevinmarks] Do custom elements and shadow dom achieve scoped style?
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tantek_ kevinmarks, I think that's a reasonable path to attempt to see if anything can work
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bjoern IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg is up and running!
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bjoern jkphl is currently running his IndieWeb presentation
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bjoern some more listeners would be cool though - but we're running against the openSUSE Conference keynote :/
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@jkphl My #IndieWeb Hack Day talk slides are available at 🇬🇧 https://t.co/QaUAo2GIQD 🇩🇪 https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-de/ #oSC16 https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745534299760320512/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745534299760320512)
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@egoexpress Listening to the #indieweb Hack Day presentation of @jkphl at the #openSUSE Conference Nuremberg. Lets spread the IndieWeb idea! #osc16 (twitter.com/_/status/745534994798370816)
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@IndieWebCampDE Die Slides zu @jkphl's #IndieWeb Hack Day stehen hier online: 🇬🇧 https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/ 🇩🇪 https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-de/ #oSC16 (twitter.com/_/status/745535048770719744)
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tantek_ !tell aaronpk is there a reason we disallow (or just haven't allowed yet?) video uploads? (.ogv .webm .avi .mp4 .mov)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar oh, wow, the 5th slide on jkphl's slides... all those memories! https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/#5
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Loqi [IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg 2016
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bjoern petermolnar: hehe, yeah, we had some nostalgic feelings over here as well when the slide showed up on the big screen
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@huffduffer ☞ IndieWeb Summit 2016 Demos https://huffduffer.com/timweston/340295 (twitter.com/_/status/745541562474520576)
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@openSUSE By the way peepz, go and learn to take back your #Web! There is an #indieweb workshop with @jkphl going on upstairs! #osc16 (twitter.com/_/status/745544926964813824)
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mblaney j4y_funabashi++ nice work on the swat0 goals, I'm working on it too. let me know if you want to do some testing.
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Loqi j4y_funabashi has 5 karma
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julieannenoying.com uploaded /File:TBCD3163.gif "super awesome illuminated IWC logo, built by @sfeldeu"
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j4y_funabashi mblaney: nice one, would really appreciate that. how far through are you? I am working through being person A
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mblaney for some reason I started from the other end and only have A to go. :-)
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j4y_funabashi awesome, that works perfectly :)
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j4y_funabashi have you any tips/pitfalls implementing B and C?
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tantek.com edited /logo (+51) "/* In the wild */ Etched illumination" (view diff)
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mblaney B and C both list very big pieces of the puzzle... a reader on it's own is a lot of work.
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mblaney since I already had that working though, the biggest change for me has been salmentions.
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cweiske !tell aaronpk, could you document your screenshots for bookmarks on http://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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j4y_funabashi yeah I have found that too, each bullet point requires you to implement a bunch of other things. ie 'sending webmentions' means detecting links, discovering endpoints, marking up your posts properly etc..
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j4y_funabashi but that is why I am enjoying it, completing even a small bit of one step means a huge improvement to your site
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mblaney exactly, it's daunting but if you can get through it all you'll end up with a lot of nice features working together.
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mblaney I've done a lot of refactoring I wasn't expecting to recently :-)
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cweiske.de created /screenshot (+367) "Created page with "A <dfn>screenshot</dfn> is an image of a computer screen or a website. Website screenshots can be shown with [[bookmark]]s. == Indieweb uses == * {{aaronpk}} shows screenshots..."" (view diff)
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@jkphl Kicking off the #IndieWeb Hack Day at the @openSUSE conference. https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745557352321949696/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745557352321949696)
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@KanalNuernberg jkphl Kicking off the #IndieWeb Hack Day at the openSUSE conference. … https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745557352321949696 https://twitter.com/KanalNuernberg/status/745557663497469952/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745557663497469952)
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j4y_funabashi mblaney: heh yeah I hear that, I have been fairly good but I def need to go back and do more testing/cleanup
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tantek_ I think this is a good read about community, and am considering what we can incorporate to further improve the indieweb community, appealing to broader communities and generations
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tantek_ https://medium.com/humane-tech/the-immortal-myths-about-online-abuse-a156e3370aee
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GWG Morning
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@jkphl We even brought the #IndieWeb to India! @iwontsignuphere's pics of our Hack Day Nuremberg https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskBoNPzQ https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745611452262785024/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745611452262785024)
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@IndieWebCampDE Bilder vom #IndieWeb Hack Day in Nürnberg — danke an @openSUSE und @iwontsignuphere! #osc16 https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskBoNPzQ (twitter.com/_/status/745611931491401728)
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@IndieWebCampDE Bilder vom #IndieWeb Hack Day in Nürnberg — danke an @openSUSE und @iwontsignuphere! #osc16 https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskBoNPzQ https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/745612079244120064/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745612079244120064)
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Vipul1 Evening
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prtksxna Hey Vipul1 o/
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Vipul1 Hey Prateek
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Friendica (+333) "note mf2 pr accepted, and indieauth feature request" (view diff)
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Vipul1 Hey prtksxna
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julieannenoying.com edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (+373) (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa those are amazing slides from joschi!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek_ left you a message 5 hours, 36 minutes ago: is there a reason we disallow (or just haven't allowed yet?) video uploads? (.ogv .webm .avi .mp4 .mov) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466584466688
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Loqi aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 4 hours, 21 minutes ago: you document your screenshots for bookmarks on http://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466588969092
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aaronpk !tell tantek no reason video uploads aren't allowed other than they aren't allowed by default on mediawiki and extensions have to be whitelisted explicitly
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk cweiske: i will! (after my talk today)
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prtksxna aaronpk: The TMH extension on mw is getting some updates soon. The video player should become pretty neat.
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prtksxna aaronpk: But we will be doing a lot of transcoding on the WMF servers to allow for adaptive bit rate streaming, not sure if that'll be possible for the IWC servers :(
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Vipul1 I've been pondering about hosting static pages on my own domain & dynamic elsewhere
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aaronpk prtksxna: i'd be happy enough to just be able to upload a video and have it show up in a player. we don't need to go all out on adaptive streaming. likely we'll only be uploading short-ish stuff anyway, and keep the longer videos on youtube.
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Vipul1 I see webmentionio is taking care of replies for some domains
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aaronpk !tell jkphl love your indieweb hack day slides! Is the slide framework something I could use for my own presentations?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Vipul1 Where in the wiki is the static-dynamic scenario most explored in the wiki?
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prtksxna aaronpk: Makes sense! I don't see TMH on http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Version. You might need that to play videos inline (and not just be downloadabe from the file page).
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prtksxna aaronpk: You can get the latest from https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/ETMH/ or https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-TimedMediaHandler
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aaronpk thanks! can you add that to https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues? I'll have to do it later
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aaronpk (or possibly way later like after i upgrade the wiki since the current version might be too old)
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prtksxna Yeah! 1.17 :( I had other thoughts about the update too, but wasn't sure if the skin repo was the right place to bring them up, especially now, that we are using Vector.
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prtksxna aaronpk: Other thoughts like running a Parsoid service, so that we get VisualEditor and actually bearable mobile editing (which IIRC was an issue on that repo)
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aaronpk the repo is fine for that
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aaronpk would love to hear any suggestions for making it better
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julieannenoying.com edited /2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day/Guest_List (+350) (view diff)
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aaronpk will be much easier now that we'll be running a modern version
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prtksxna aaronpk: Good to know! I'll add some issues once I've gathered my thoughts. Feel free to ruthlessly triage them :P
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sknebel Vipul1: https://indiewebcamp.com/jekyll is used by the most people
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sknebel Vipul1: there are some tools linked there, I'm not sure if the list is complete
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sknebel webmention.io can take care of receiving webmentions for you, most people added automatic sending to their workflow in custom ways I think
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julieannenoying.com edited /User:Julieannenoying.com (+19) "/* Julie Anne Noying */" (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com edited /User:Julieannenoying.com (-1) (view diff)
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GWG Trying to figure out if there is a better way to do timezones again.
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petermolnar GWG swatch internet time \o/ :)
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GWG petermolnar: I was writing this last night, https://david.shanske.com/2016/06/22/timezone-offsets-in-wordpress/
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Loqi [David Shanske] Timezone Offsets in WordPress Themes
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GWG I've wanted to document some WordPress issues that come up.
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chawathe.iprocess.firm.in created /HubZilla (+298) "Created page with "Hubzilla is a decentralized community web server for building websites that can interact with one another. References: https://macgirvin.com/display/dba2426280292bb135cfa716b4c15..."" (view diff)
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GWG I also wanted to go over easy ways to add Microformats 2 to a theme.
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GWG !tell pfefferle Any news on that PR? It has a bug fix for a non-static method that someone on the stable release in wordpress.org was asking about.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Vipul1 sknebel: For now I am using vanilla javascript/css/ .. though I dont intend web to be my primary specialization
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Vipul1 sknebel: Trusting Jekyll seems too much like trusting silos..
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voxpelli Vipul1: trusting Jekyll isn't that much different from trusting a text editor – it mostly just mixes together a few templates and outputs final html of it
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voxpelli wouldn't say that it's very similar to trusting a silo at all
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Vipul1 voxpelli: & often its better than my handiwork, but that's more about it's promenance than mine..
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Vipul1 My imperfections reflecting in my self expression make my stuff uniquely mine
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Loqi [indieweb] "microformats.org at 11" by Tantek http://microformats.org/2016/06/22/microformats-org-at-11
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voxpelli I btw use Jekyll + https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ + an almost release ready Micropub endpoint that talks to GitHub (because that was easier as a first start than to talk full on git)
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Vipul1 I btw tried Hubzilla briefly before returning here
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Vipul1 If I could juggle contributing back to Hubzilla/Jekyll then I 'd have stayed with them
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Vipul1 b'bye for now, me calling it a day.
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Vipul1 Hope I have next small step to announce soon
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sknebel Vipul1: you still can look at how people using jekyll have solved different problems and adapt them for your workflow
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb.
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Loqi [indieweb] "likes Easy IndieWeb interactions on Android &#124; snarfed.org" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14407-2/
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Jeena !tell tantek why didn't you link to cjk101010's website instead of his silo user page? https://wwwtech.de/notes/222
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Calli hello! does anyone have a zero-setup MF2 (h-entry) to Atom/RSS feed generator for light use? I just marked up https://www.callionica.com/developer/ with h-entry (by hand) - would like to generate an Atom/RSS feed from it.
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Calli I mean http://www.callionica.com/developer/ (not https)
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gRegorLove What is granary?
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Loqi granary is A library and REST API that frees you from social network API chaff and and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, Atom, XML, and more https://indiewebcamp.com/granary
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gRegorLove Calli: Try that ^
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Calli Thanks!
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j4y_funabashi Just looking into using xmpp for notifications on my mobile, anyone else using xmpp?
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gRegorLove https://granary-demo.appspot.com/?x=99&y=27&input=html specifically, Calli
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sknebel j4y_funabashi: cweiske made a xmpp-bot for posting
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /HubZilla (+33) (view diff)
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[kylewm] oh funny, I made a xmpp micropub bot too, though I don’t think it’s running right now
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /RedMatrix (-177) "redmatrix was renamed apparently" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi cool, so you can have a bot listen to a xmpp room and respond to commands?
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j4y_funabashi I am looking for open source ways to send notifications to my android phone
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j4y_funabashi my fall back will probably be email
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j4y_funabashi but just looking at other options and I could run an xmpp server then use an android client to get notifications
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sknebel j4y_funabashi: biggest issue is that if you want reliable push notifications most things go through googles push service
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sknebel but using XMPP is probably a good way to avoid that
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sknebel (I suspect aaronpk uses IRC for mobile notifications?)
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[kylewm] j4y_funabashi: I started my bot up again, you’re welcome to talk to it: micropub@kylewm.com
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[kylewm] (although it won’t help you test notifications unfortunately)
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j4y_funabashi yeah, I would probably consider notifications as an enhancement to a page on my site
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aaronpk yep IRC but notifications actually run through Prowl app which ultimately uses apple's notification service
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+45) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ remove 6/15; add 7/13" (view diff)
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aaronpk i don't really mind using apple or google's notification services since they're just services, and not storing any content, and i can always replace them with something else seamlessly later
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club (+389) "/* Where */ +Bellingham" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club (+88) "/* RSVP */ +me" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi [kylewm]: I don't actually have xmpp setup yet, just looking at options :)
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[kylewm] OK :slightly_smiling_face: This might give you an idea about how much code it is https://github.com/kylewm/micropub-xmpp-bot/blob/master/micropub_client.py
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /HubZilla (+425) "clean up page, add sections" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: Yeah this is certainly something I want to be able to swap out, it's only purpose is alerting me of ephemeral messages from my site
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sknebel j4y_funabashi: I think cweiske used a https://github.com/errbotio/errbot
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sknebel and I recently looked into writing a bot for Signal
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j4y_funabashi but if it is easy to setup an open source thing on a raspberry pi then I will use that
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[kylewm] you also need to decide if you want to run xmpp client on your phone all the time
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[kylewm] I decided I did not :stuck_out_tongue:
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sknebel not well-documented, and I'm not happy about their stance towards third-party-software, but seemed doable as well. and I'm running Signal anyways
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j4y_funabashi [kylewm]: why not?
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gRegorLove What is Signal?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Signal" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NP
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j4y_funabashi what is signal
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "signal" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NQ
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j4y_funabashi heh beat me to it :)
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gRegorLove haha
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sknebel formerly textsecure, by openwhispersystems / m0xie
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j4y_funabashi I think one thing drawing me to xmpp is that alot of my friends use whatsApp, which apparently uses xmpp protocol
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[kylewm] j4y_funabashi: I was paranoid about the battery on my previous phone … wasn’t sure what was draining it so I took off a bunch of things that ran in the background
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gRegorLove Whoa, really? whatsApp doesn't federate though, I imagine?
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gRegorLove What is whatsApp?
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Loqi WhatsApp is a proprietary mobile messaging application and is owned by Facebook https://indiewebcamp.com/WhatsApp
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j4y_funabashi gRegorLove: yeah I don't know if you could connect whatsApp to a personal server, but maybe?
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gRegorLove Heh, "FunXMPP" https://github.com/mgp25/Chat-API/wiki/FunXMPP-Protocol
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j4y_funabashi I have only got as far as reading the wiki page
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gRegorLove reads a bit, backs away slowly, then runs away
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gRegorLove I don't see how you could connect to it since they supposedly use encryption now
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gRegorLove Heh, from Wikipedia "In 2014 an unofficial open source plug-in called whatsapp-purple was released for Pidgin, implementing its XMPP and making it possible to use WhatsApp on a Windows or Linux PC.[53][third-party source needed] WhatsApp responded by automatically blocking phone numbers that connected to WhatsApp using this plug-in.[citation needed]"
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sknebel yeah, they try to block bots and third-party-clients
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sknebel there is a bunch of packages around for bots, so it probably is possible to stay below the radar
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j4y_funabashi boo, oh well - that was a nice to have
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@jkphl Yes! At the #IndieWeb Hack Day I could finally demo the 1st ever (very simple) website delivered by apparat. \o/ https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/745683253890289665/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745683253890289665)
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@DonaldBMcIntosh Yay! My first POSSE to Twitter. Some tweaks to do, but basically there. Go indieweb http://www.donaldmcintosh.net/resource/triki-twitter (twitter.com/_/status/745683475634720768)
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@DonaldBMcIntosh Yay! My first POSSE to Twitter. Some tweaks to do, but basically there. Go #IndieWeb http://www.donaldmcintosh.net/resource/triki-twitter (twitter.com/_/status/745684181267660800)
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@HeofHIshirts Watching @aaronpk work w/webmention, there's class attributes to the HTML tags. Is there CSS/JS framework interference? #osb16 (twitter.com/_/status/745687165909110790)
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bear sad I missed the discussion earlier about XMPP and using it with indieweb
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[shaners] https://newrepublic.com/article/133889/reboot-world
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[shaners] "Standing against this tide of centralization is the indie web movement. (And hackers, the black hat kind and otherwise.) Perhaps “movement” is too strong—it’s more an aesthetic of independence and decentralization. The IndieWebCamp web page states: “When you post something on the web, it should belong to you, not a corporation.” You should own your information and profit from it. You should have your own servers. Your destiny, whic
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[shaners] in order to avoid learning a few lines of code, would once again be your own."
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gRegorLove Throwing that "black hat" in there seems unnecessary
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[benatwork] The decentralized dating quote made me laugh at my desk
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aaronpk just finished my talk at osbridge!
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aaronpk i did a live demo of coding a simple web page and getting it to appear as a comment on webmention.rocks
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aaronpk it was kind of magical, almost worked too well
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gRegorLove Nice!
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aaronpk if i had been clever i would have recorded my screen too
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bear :)
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aaronpk but hey i didn't go in planning on recording video of my own talk and it came out okay anyway
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aaronpk also figured out a great demo workflow for webmention.rocks
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aaronpk pick one of the tests and write a reply to it, show your post appearing as a comment on the test. then go to the receiving test, and put your post URL in there, and webmention.rocks comments on your post
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/22/12/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Here's a post for Webmention.rocks test 2!
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[kevinmarks] Nice. Easier than getting us to coordinate posting
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aaronpk also ❤️ that webmention.rocks shows the comment appear in realtime
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@veganstraightedge Hey @iwontsignuphere, what's the story on this @indiewebcamp logo thing? http:///photos/tollwerk/27760825811 (twitter.com/_/status/745720426949656577)
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aaronpk so cool
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ben_thatmustbeme need more people to submit implementation reports thoug
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ben_thatmustbeme s/thoug/though
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: need more people to submit implementation reports though
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aaronpk yes we do
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bear my last interaction with them left a sour taste in my brain, not going to go thru that again
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aaronpk with who?
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bear commenters from the w3c community
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aaronpk oh, well when you submit an implementation report it's really a one-way thing
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bear i'll put back in the consideration pile on my plate
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aaronpk i would personally really appreciate anyone submitting a report. really it's just a matter of sending a PR of a markdown file to this repo and checking off the boxes to describe your implementation https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/tree/master/implementation-reports
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sknebel aaronpk: how much of the things described should be specific to the implementation? Since I guess many people use libraries to cover at least parts of it
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aaronpk i would say describe your software as a whole, and then list out the libraries you use if you are using any
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aaronpk i will mail a webmention.rocks sticker to anyone who submits a report 😄
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bear just added himself
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bear and I would *love* a sticker
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bear the implementation checklist also had some items I need to add tests for and also implement
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i'll take that offer
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aaronpk bear++
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Loqi bear has 145 karma
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@veganstraightedge My @indiewebcamp logo in pulsing red light and embroidered on a tote bag! https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/745726518173667328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745726518173667328)
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aaronpk just let me know where to send a sticker!
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aaronpk ...if only we had private webmentions and home page notifications we'd have a private messaging system
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bear DM'd
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bear I had a crazy idea of having a reply held in escrow and when the receiver of the message accesses the url with a cookie or somesuch they would see the message
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bear so the webmention sent would be only a tokenized link
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aaronpk yeah i feel like it's not a huge stretch from where we are now
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bear and the urls would be like https://bear.im/private/aaronpk.com/293720dwi2293
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aaronpk if it requires credentials to retrieve it then you don't even need to use an obscure URL
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sknebel wasn't there experiments with indieauth-flow for verification of webmentions/private messagesß
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aaronpk yea, i don't think they are online still tho
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sknebel k, just saw the wiki pages about it
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bear the obscure part was me just using an id that didn't leak info
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aaronpk if i had access control on my posts i could just use the same URL scheme for private posts too
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aaronpk (/yyyy/mm/dd/n/)
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bear yep, if I had non-slug url's... *sigh*
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bear slugs are the only thing I would do differently
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aaronpk ah, didn't realize the slug was a required part of your urls
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bear sadly yes
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jkphl aaronpk: sure, you're welcome! :) the whole presentation is on github https://github.com/jkphl/indieweb-talk
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Loqi jkphl: aaronpk left you a message 7 hours, 4 minutes ago: love your indieweb hack day slides! Is the slide framework something I could use for my own presentations? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466604971377
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aaronpk jkphl++
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bear i have a working branch to replace them with a uuid and create a redirect file
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Loqi jkphl has 8 karma
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aaronpk really cute illustrations too!
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jkphl thanks! for now, it's basically just an html page, one javascript and some css. i plan to make it a proper framework however, need to do more slides like that
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aaronpk oh is it something you wrote yourself?
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jkphl yep
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@veganstraightedge My @indiewebcamp logo in pulsing red light! #indieweb https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/745728777368395776/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745728777368395776)
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aaronpk very nice
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jkphl i was discontent with a couple of existing tools, mostly because their results are usually pretty ugly. i wanted to do some simple but nice animations and stuff. it would still be nice to edit the slides as single markdown file or similar
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bear jkphl++ great presentation!
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Loqi jkphl has 9 karma
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jkphl abstracting away the styling & animations is pretty tough though
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jkphl thanks bear!
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aaronpk i just made my slides for osbridge using the reveal-js framework. you author some simple HTML and it turns it into nice formatting. definitely felt limiting in places and i wanted to make things look better but didn't have time to figure it out.
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@veganstraightedge My @indiewebcamp logo embroidered on a tote bag! #indieweb https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/745729336712454145/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745729336712454145)
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jkphl yeah, i used reveal.js a couple of times. but you're pretty limited if you want to have custom effects ...
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bear what is presentations
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jkphl aaronpk you do know that you can code reveal.js in markdown as well, right?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/presentations
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aaronpk i did not actually
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bear jkphl maybe add your talk to ^^
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jkphl bear good idea, will do! :)
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bear ha - it only goes to 2014 - some others should add theirs
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jkphl aaropk you can, and it's pretty neat actually
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aaronpk wow didn't realize we had that page. i've put things on /events and /videos_about_the_indieweb
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aaronparecki.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+293) (view diff)
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@veganstraightedge My @indiewebcamp logo embroidered on a tote bag! #indieweb /by @sfeldeu https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/745730452367937536/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745730452367937536)
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jkphl.is edited /presentations (+213) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /presentations (+137) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+109) "add @ftrain article" (view diff)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Reboot the World | New Republic" https://newrepublic.com/article/133889/reboot-world (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/22/18/)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Tantek: microformats.org at 11" https://dragplus.com/post/id/36375228
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aaronpk here's the video from my osbridge talk! don't tweet this one out or anything cause the audio is really bad and i'm going to replace it later
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aaronpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u2Knp8P9eY
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aaronpk KevinMarks: ^
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bear I still get a nice warm-n-fuzzy feeling when I see that picture
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aaronpk jkphl: i can't navigate your presentation on mobile. think you could add some mechanism to move between slides? maybe check out how reveal-js does it?
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[kylewm] feature creeping!
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jkphl aaron: sure, should be easy to do (didn't take care of it yet). will do sth about that tomorrow! :)
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aaronpk not feature creep! it's just unusable on mobile right now
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aaronpk feature creep would be asking for the iphone to be able to navigate the display on a desktop ;-)
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jkphl right now, the presentation requires keyboard strikes or mouse clicks. can't you even advance the slides one direction by tapping? (never tried it)
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bear screen tap should translate as a mouse click
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aaronpk it doesn't for some reason
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aaronpk (i'm on iOS)
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jkphl hmmm ... give me some minutes, i'll have a look
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bear yea, touch events are not uniform across phone os webkits
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jkphl it works on android at least, just tried it
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[kylewm] jkphl: oh where did the IndieMark badges come from in your presentation? shaners described those to me at IWC, but I didn’t know they were out there
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aaronpk oh yeah, i was gonna ask about it! those are amazing indiemark graphics!
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jkphl i drew them ;)
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure that's exactly what tantek was picturing when he was writing it up!
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jkphl i planned to make a little REST web service out of them (registered http://indiemark.net for that), but didn't have time to implement it yet
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bear yea i love the graphs
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aaronpk !!!
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tantek can someone link the graphics here?
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aaronpk jkphl++
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Loqi jkphl has 10 karma
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 8 hours, 21 minutes ago: no reason video uploads aren't allowed other than they aren't allowed by default on mediawiki and extensions have to be whitelisted explicitly http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466604700888
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Loqi tantek: Jeena left you a message 5 hours, 7 minutes ago: why didn't you link to cjk101010's website instead of his silo user page? https://wwwtech.de/notes/222 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466616351825
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[kylewm] jkphl: awesome! did you participate in that session, or case of independent invention?
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jkphl they're basically just a draft at the moment. they should render at different sizes and SVG / ICO at the end
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tantek !tell Jeena I don't know, I was offline and couldn't easily find it when writing the post on the plane. People still make it too hard to find and link to their indie site / name.
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bear jkphl++ that would be a great service
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi jkphl has 11 karma
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jkphl which session? no, it was an idea i had back in march when i made those slides ...
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jkphl ok. i'll see to find some time for that soon! :)
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tantek aaronpk re: video uploads, should we allow some? with a size limit? not sure just asking
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[kylewm] jkphl: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/IndieMark
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jkphl tantek: https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/#20
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Loqi [IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg 2016
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@aaronpk Amazing #IndieMark graphics by @jkphl! From an equally amazing slide deck! https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/ #indieweb https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/745747068388417536/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/745747068388417536)
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aaronpk tantek: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/22/19/photo.png
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jkphl kylewm: ah nice. no, i missed that session, obviously
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jkphl it was probably a session w/o video, right?
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sknebel jkphl: was the day with the AC noise in the main-room stream
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[kylewm] not sure! just cool that y’all both had the same idea (maybe common ancestry with HTML5 ringmark) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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jkphl sknebel i see. hmm ... i was always watching one of the streams, probably had the other one at that tie
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jkphl s/tie/time
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Loqi jkphl meant to say: sknebel i see. hmm ... i was always watching one of the streams, probably had the other one at that time
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Loqi [indieweb] "Tantek: microformats.org at 11" https://dragplus.com/post/id/36375229
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tantek ^^^ what's that
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aaronpk looks like spam repost
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[shaners] jkphl++: Your visualization is exactly what I was imagining (and planning on building). So, I’m glad that you’re already doing it! :smile:
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Loqi jkphl has 12 karma
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jkphl shaners: :D great! didn't know that
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tantek is this like ringmark at all?
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jkphl tantek i'm not familiar with that term, unfortunately
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jkphl shaners i'll try to catch up with the session notes. i'd happily accept your further input!
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tantek http://ringmark.io
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tantek what is ringmark?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ringmark" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NR
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aaronpk hm ringmark seems to crash with a 500 server error
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tantek ringmark is a set of tests for measuring how well a browser supports a set of various web technologies, some standard, some experimental, some proprietary, developed by [[Facebook]] and [[Bocoup]]. http://ringmark.io/about/
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loqi.me created /ringmark (+250) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466636116064 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk i get part way around ring 0 and then it stops
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aaronpk js console shows the last http request it made returned 500
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tantek jkphl++ https://aaronparecki.com/2016/06/22/19/photo.png is pretty sweet and yes that's definitely like what I was imagining when I started drafting IndieMark (conceptually, axes, levels etc.) based on the design of ringmark e.g. http://ringmark.io/site/img/ring.png
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Loqi jkphl has 13 karma
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jkphl what i had in mind was nothing more than a windrose chart, having the axes as sectors and the levels visualized by colored layers
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tantek I prefer the way you did it jkphl
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jkphl thanks
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tantek without the big hole in the middle like ringmark has
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[shaners] jkphl: Totally. Looks great.
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[kylewm] yeah either ringmark.io is broken-ish or Chrome is really really behind
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jkphl i'd like to have it as smallish icon you can put on your site ;)
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tantek guess I should get to work incorporating feedback from recent IndieMark sessions into IndieMark so people measure and report accordingly!
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jkphl ... like all those badges one can incorporate into a github readme
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[shaners] I’m imagining a service that sends back a PNG or SVG at different URLs, so a project page or README could embed it and easily update it as the project changes.
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[shaners] indiemark.net/path/to/image.format?axis_name=1,2,3&another_axis_name=1,3
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[shaners] Or something like that
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tantek aaronpk: can you move the preso you added to the timeline of citations in https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=RSS_Atom_wars&curid=1822&diff=28846&oldid=26340 ? it's not really a see also, it's just yet another time datapoint in the wars
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jkphl shaners: exactly. that's what i had in mind
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tantek shaners, jkphl, cool - add that to /IndieMark#Brainstorming!
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jkphl will do!
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tantek I really dislike slideshare's dependence on JS. next/prev slide links should just work when clicked, they should NOT require JS
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tantek do I need to write a post on js;dn? Javascript required, didn't navigate
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tantek what is SlideShare?
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Loqi SlideShare is a slide hosting/sharing site, owned by LinkedIn https://indiewebcamp.com/SlideShare
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tantek which is now owned by Microsoft
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sknebel I could have sworn that worked a few weeks ago
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aaronpk sure
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tantek.com edited /SlideShare (+389) "update dfn, MS, silo, require JS" (view diff)
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tantek skenebel what worked?
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tantek s/skenebel/sknebel
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aaronparecki.com edited /RSS_Atom_wars (+20) "move presentation to timeline" (view diff)
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Loqi tantek meant to say: sknebel what worked?
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sknebel slide navigation
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sknebel without js
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tantek had to enable js files on THREE different domains to make it work. yet another example of bad bloated web dev
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tantek lol wow that presentation mentions GBase also
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sknebel ugh, I really need to own my IRC-logs, I'm sure I commented about that but I can't find it
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tantek for those that don't remember or never heard of it GBase was one of Google's previous schema-org-like experiments with structured data: http://microformats.org/wiki/gbase (and yes it died long ago)
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Loqi Google Base
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tantek hey aaronpk did you point out in your talk that Micropub is a modern replacement for AtomPub? or is AtomPub so old and defunct now that no one has heard of it any more?
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aaronpk I didn't in this talk, because i wasn't focusing on micropub but i also think that atompub might be too old for people to care about anymore
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gRegorLove Awesome slide: https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/#11
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Loqi [IndieWeb Hack Day Nuremberg 2016
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gRegorLove What was AtomPub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AtomPub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NS
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jkphl gRegorLove: thanks! credits go to calum ryan, i think he used that gif in a presentation before. but still, yes, it's awesome. :)
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gRegorLove Speaking of graphics, we need old-school buttons a la http://web.archive.org/web/20060721140056/http://gtmcknight.com/buttons/personal.php
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aaronpk jkphl: https://github.com/jkphl/indieweb-talk/pull/1 that should help the Loqi summary
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gRegorLove I just asked gtmcknight if it's possible to revive that page. Looks like the graphics are there, just a db error prevents browsing them.
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loqi.me created /PeARS (+153) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh man i miss those badges
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gRegorLove !!!
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gRegorLove I might be reviving them.
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gRegorLove he said he might be able to find a zip of them
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jkphl aaronpk awesome, thanks
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aaronpk (i don't know how you're generating the final index.html, i just changed the source)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Enabling WordPress Press This for HostGator Sites #indieweb" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/enabling-wordpress-press-this-for-hostgator-sites-indieweb/
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EileenK I just found this place via an article in The New Republic.
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aaronpk welcome EileenK!
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EileenK http://tacheiru.us/byriatt/bigmouthsecond.html
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EileenK That's my poor attempt. I have several pages at that domain, but the pseudo blog is what's active.
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EileenK Not that active, but I've been busy.
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EileenK Not that active, but I've been busy.
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EileenK Not that active, but I've been busy.
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EileenK Ouch...sorry.
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EileenK I kicked blogger in the teeth when it would not host subdomains.
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EileenK Right now I'm looking for a substitute to Google Drive.
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aaronpk I like the text on your home page!
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aaronpk "I hope this site encourages you to go out and rent web space of your own. Saying what you want is the most important thing in the world and the web lets any one who wants to shout it out loud and proud do so, for a small fee. Please build a web site of your own and get your message out to the world." http://tacheiru.us/
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EileenK That's a subset of http://tacheiru.us which is the old home page.
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EileenK Yes!
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EileenK I wrote that twelve years ago after a very bad experience with Web 1.0
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EileenK Web 1.0 could be infinitely more vicious than Web 2.0 People have forgotten.
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tantek that's a nice indieweb testimonial EileenK! when did you write it?
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EileenK Probably in the summer of 2004.
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EileenK I got kicked out of a community called Brainstorms after a two week parody of due process.
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tantek amazing
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EileenK I hated being jerked around.
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tantek amazing about 2004, not being kicked out
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tantek sorry to hear that
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EileenK We all remember the way it used to work, a mailing list or web board had an owner/boss. If you pissed off the boss and his/her friends you often lost contact with everybdoy.
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tantek given your experience, would be interested in your opinion of our code of conduct: https://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct
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EileenK I piss off my Facebook friends routinely, I've been unfriended once or twice but it doesn't cut off everybody.
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tantek that's another good example /Why
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EileenK Thanks Tantek.
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EileenK Is there a good way to host huge piles of fiction besides turning them into Richtext and uploading them as binaries?
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@TechLifeWeb Enabling WordPress Press This for HostGator Sites #indieweb http://techlifeweb.com/enabling-wordpress-press-this-for-hostgator-sites-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/745766922634076160)
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EileenK I'm not thrilled with using Google Drive as a silo.
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tantek For richtext, HTML or Markdown are both better than binaries
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tantek each have advantages / disadvantages
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tantek though for "piles of fiction", Markdown may be "good enough"
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tantek and simpler / easier to maintain
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tantek.com edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+4369) "split up what we actually agreed to at the Leaders Summit vs. proposals that came afterwards that did not have the massive +1 support that this page has collected to date, collect alternatives and provide opinions" (view diff)
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jkphl aaropk: you *should* be able to swipe through the slides now (don't have an iphone handy right now, but works on android and win10). english slides only at the moment.
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aaronpk jkphl++ swipe and tap work now!
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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Loqi jkphl has 14 karma
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jkphl thanks for confirming! :)