#indiewebcamp 2016-06-23

2016-06-23 UTC
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aaronpk
this should look better for Loqi too now https://jkphl.is/slides/ihdnue2016-en/
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Loqi
[Joschi Kuphal] IndieWeb
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EileenK
I can write in html... but I've got almost 350 pages... and the thing is growing.
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EileenK
How do you link your page to your name?
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tantek.com
edited /indieweb.org (+491) "note that this page and the proposals therein were all done after discussions & consensus at the IndieWeb Summit and the subsequent strong +1ing of that consensus by the community"
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gRegorLove
Welcome, EileenK!
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aaronpk
EileenK: that's done with microformats2, by putting an h-card on your home page
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EileenK
Also, I've buit a couple of pages from scratch recently and realized, I have no idea what a modern (2016) home page should look like. Zero... I know the ones we used to build that I used to complain about and improve.
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EileenK
OK, I'll write that down and look it up.
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gRegorLove
Nice thing is it can look however you want it to :)
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EileenK
They took away our facstaff server at work, and gave us EduBlogs instead.
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EileenK
Yeah, but what works best. I use a rogue page as a Do-List at work http://tacheiru.us/vita/dingdong.html
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EileenK
We have so much more to work with in 2016 than we did in 2002.
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gRegorLove
This is interesting: https://thelocalyarn.com/excursus/secretary/posts/web-books.html Uses Pollen (not familiar) to generate the HTML and PDF versions from the same text. Link at the top tot he PDF as well as Pollen source.
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EileenK
Then there is http://tacheiru.us/vita/facstaffehk.html which replaced the old Facstaff page.
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tantek
EileenK: re: "no idea what a modern (2016) home page should look like." we have some ideas, but could use more! indiewebcamp.com/homepage
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EileenK
Well I miss the silver age of the early aughts. Even if the pages were badly laid out (too much dead space and too much center aligning and unnecessary nesting of tables) they were still rich and pretty.
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tantek
EileenK: do you mean like the "about.me" look?
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EileenK
I mean like what people used to make with web sets.
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /PeARS (-89) "delete request - after looking into the project in more detail, not ready yet"
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EileenK
I mean something like this.... http://ghphotography.org/
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EileenK
This is another classic: http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/myhavenoflove/
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[kevinmarks]
Mine still look like that after seeing kevinmarks.com someone asked me if the CSS hadn't loaded
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EileenK
With a little good table, code those pages could be A LOT better. Ironically css nests like those tables.
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EileenK
I got so I could make a single flat table that had a border.
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EileenK
Hello Leg
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leg
hi.
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[kevinmarks]
With flexbox you can do table-like things that cope with smaller screes and wider ones better
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gRegorLove
I was just reminded of The Site Fights and decided to do some Googling. Ended up finding pages on your site, EileenK. Small google world :)
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: https://indiewebcamp.com/favicon.ico isn't resolving to an icon
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aaronpk
Has it ever?
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gRegorLove
I imagine so. I'm seeing an icon; guessing it's cached.
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gRegorLove
It looks like the old logo's "W"
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gRegorLove
Not sure how to uncache it, even when I turn off caching in devtools
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gRegorLove
favicon.ico is linked in the HTML that's why I mentioned it. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgFavicon
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aaronpk
Huh I don't remember doing that and I don't think I see it on mine
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aaronpk
i bet the new skin changed it tho
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gregorlove.com
edited /2016/MIT/Schedule (+24) "/* Monday March 14, 2016 */ linked orphan /2016/MIT/installers"
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gregorlove.com
edited /2016/Schedule (+27) "/* Saturday 2016-06-04 */ linked orphan /2016/state-of-indieweb"
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GWG
Evening
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aaronpk
ponders an "uptime" display on aaronparecki.com showing how long he has been awake
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Ruxton
what are you tracking downtime with?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you tracking downtime with" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NV
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aaronpk
the cheap jawbone UP
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (-132) "/* Details */ there is no "default" assumption to be made about web interface URLs since the current URL does not include the channel name"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+521) "/* where to put bookmark aggregator */"
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tantek.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+652) "/* chat subdirectory */ move details per channel"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /indieweb.org (+156) "/* indieweb.org */ provide more detail on custom index.php page"
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+242) "/* where to put newsletter */ ==== consolidate with news.indiewebcamp.com ===="
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+316) "/* docs subdomain */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+346) "/* where to put IRC logs */ add my votes"
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: this-week is not an email archive of news.indiewebcamp.com
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aaronpk
it includes new submissions to news.indiewebcamp.com among other things
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gRegorLove
Not *just*, yes.
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aaronpk
i don't see how to fit the newsletter archives into the indienews site
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aaronpk
maybe add some more details on what you're envisioning?
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aaronpk
actually...that could tie in with an alternate proposal i'm about to post
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aaronpk
ah crap
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aaronpk
restarted my computer and my multiple clipboard app didn't launch and now i lost my copy+paste buffer
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Loqi
uhoh
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+540) "/* consolidate with news.indiewebcamp.com */ expand/clarify pros/cons"
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gRegorLove
I guess i see a lot of overlap between the two, though maybe for those outside the community they'd be interested in just IndieNews sans all our wiki stuff.
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aaronpk
interesting. i see them as totally different things.
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gRegorLove
Not suggesting the presentation of IndieNews change in any major way, though.
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gRegorLove
I wonder if https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TitleBlacklist could be used to block certain wiki names to reserve them for actual subdirectories
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aaronpk
heh but how do we know what subdirectories we will want?
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gRegorLove
Well, I mean if we choose ones in this disussion, like /chat
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aaronpk
oh, well even if there is a wiki page there the files will overrule it
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gRegorLove
But yeah, who knows going forward.
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gRegorLove
namespaces! jk
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aaronpk
what's really complicated is on disk the wiki is at /wiki but both /wiki and /wiki/ are URLs served by mediawiki
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gRegorLove
I was wondering about that. Read some stuff saying it's a "bad bad idea" to run it on a root domain
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aaronpk
i learned that long ago
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+1326) "/* where to put bookmark aggregator */ add two more options for news.indiewebcamp.com"
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aaronpk
oops that is redundant
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gRegorLove
Interesting. Would it remain in the this-week email then?
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aaronpk
yes still could
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aaronpk
i do like that part about it
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aaronpk
this-week is meant to roll up stuff from lots of other places so i could definitely see adding other sources to the newsletter later
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+113) "/* consolidate with news.indiewebcamp.com */ change vote"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+435) "/* where to put newsletter */"
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gRegorLove
aaonpk: "I feel like things like indieweb.org/chat/dev/2016-06-22 are a bit too long. IMO chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-06-22 looks better." those two are the same length. Typo?
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aaronpk
the first has an extra path segment
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gRegorLove
They're both 32 characters long
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aaronpk
i will rephrase
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+21) "/* chat subdirectory */ rephrase"
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+202) "/* docs subdomain */ vote"
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aaronpk
is that clearer?
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gRegorLove
Gotcha. Sorry I was being too literal, heh
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+79) "/* chat subdirectory */ vote"
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aaronpk
jeez the wiki does not work well for simultaneously editing the same page :P
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+104) "/* where to put newsletter */ add my opinions"
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gRegorLove
New brainstorming section: Replace MediaWiki :D
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gRegorLove
is done for the evening
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aaronpk
that's what the whole [[indieweb.org]] page is about ;-)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+430) "/* where to put bookmark aggregator */ my opinions"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+52) "/* More Brainstorming */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+641) "add slack URL"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /indieweb.org () "(-1793) removed proposals that are now better documented and voted on at [[rename_to_IndieWeb]]"
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aaronpk
would appreciate everyone else (especially those who already voted on this page) to chime in on these issues. we need to make a decision on this sooner rather than later in order to do the switch on July 4th! https://indiewebcamp.com/rename_to_IndieWeb
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+142) "/* chat subdomain */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+122) "/* chat subdirectory */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+43) "/* just keep this-week subdirectory */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+276) "/* consolidate with news.indiewebcamp.com */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+8) "/* consolidate with news.indiewebcamp.com */"
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GWG
Part 2 of my attempt to document some WordPress stuff
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Loqi
[David Shanske] Converting WordPress Themes for Microformats 2 – Part 1
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colintedford
I think subdomains are more clunky/confusing to "regular folks" (well, those who pay any attention to urls). It's like a sentence going in 2 directions at once. Muddles the hierarchy.
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colintedford
^ my non-leader 2 cents.
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aaronpk
It depends on the situation, note some of the subdomain examples Tantek cited there
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aaronpk
but would appreciate specific feedback on the actual things being proposed
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+168) "/* docs subdomain */ -1"
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kylewm
are votes minor edits?
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+8) "/* chat subdirectory */"
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+71) "/* chat subdomain */ +1"
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david.shanske.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+23) "/* chat subdirectory */"
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loqi.me
created /Pingpad (+144) "prompted by KevinMarks_ and dfn added by KevinMarks_"
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (-71) "/* chat subdomain */ retracting my vote, I need to think about this some more"
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colintedford.com
edited /news (+127) "This Week in the IndieWeb"
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Ruxton
Dare i ask, why is there slack and IRC?
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+142) "/* slack subdomain */ -1"
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kylewm
what is Slack?
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Loqi
Slack is a closed-source team communication tool similar to IRC but with expanding support for various types of content such as emoji polls, inline images, and attachments https://indiewebcamp.com/Slack
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KevinMarks_
Ruxton: the slack is a mirror of the irc
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kylewm
Ruxton: see that article^
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Ruxton
vomits "People love Slack HQ"
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kylewm
aw, Chloe wrote that, so we leave it alone
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Ruxton
I would've thought Slack goes against the whole ethos of the Indieweb
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tantek
Ruxton - there are many aspects to the ethos. see /Principles
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Ruxton
yeah but #1 "✊ Own your data."
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tantek
being aware / sensitive to / preferring better UX is part of that, as well as appealing to more /Generations of people
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tantek
Ruxton, using Slack is kind of like /PESOS in that regard
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tantek
since even by using Slack, since it is bridged to IRC and we archive that, the community still keeps all the logs even if Slack disappears
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aaronpk
That's also the reason we mirror the slack channel. If slack goes away we still have all the chat logs on our website
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Ruxton
Slack is gobbling up open chat communities into closed eco-systems, so many opensource projects have moved to slack, imo to their detriment
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aaronpk
I agree with that, and it's unfortunate
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aaronpk
hopefully we set an example of how to coexist
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colintedford
kylewm: I'd say votes are not minor edits.
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kylewm
thanks colintedford
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colintedford
they're substantive (unlike say a typo fix)
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aaronpk
Yeah I usually only use "minor" for typo fixes
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kylewm
what do y'all think of "talk" instead of chat? chat feels too informal to me, already evidenced by confusion #indiechat
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kylewm
with^
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aaronpk
talk implies voice to me
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Ruxton
^-- also, it means we actually TALK, chat is text, talk is words
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colintedford
I like "talk" better semantically but think "chat" might better communicate "real-time online talking-by-typing" b/c of common usage
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Ruxton
*talk is audible words
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KevinMarks_
Indienatter
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+213) "/* news subdomain */ +1"
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kylewm
y'all must have been really confused by GoogleTalk
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GWG
Google Talk was a good product. I still miss it.
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snarfed
google talk is still alive and well :P
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tantek
Skype chat
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tantek
chat bots
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kylewm
google talk was a soft site-death
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tantek
the archives are still in your gmail
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tantek
so was anything lost?
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kylewm
dead but continues to sort of work
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tantek
Google Talk clients are the only thing that actually died right?
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snarfed
desktop clients?
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snarfed
maybe yeah. and some narrow parts of xmpp interop iirc
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+24) "/* leave it at news.indiewebcamp.com */ -1"
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snarfed
but the web client is still fine
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snarfed
and i still happily use gtalk on adium
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GWG
I still use it on Pidgin
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kylewm
libpurple monoculture!
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kylewm
I don't think Google meant to do it, but they couldn't have killed xmpp any more effectively if they tried
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kylewm
get everyone to switch off the various chat services they were using to google, then close the doors behind them
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snarfed
embrace and extend
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kylewm
and it infuriates me that federation still works just enough so you can see people on other networks, but when you try to talk to them it fails invisibly
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kylewm
</rant>
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Why Microformats" by David Shanske https://david.shanske.com/2016/06/23/why-microformats/
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GWG
Tried to lay that out again.
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@kevinmarks
@brokep think of it as sending a message of hope to those who don't see the silos they are in. https://newrepublic.com/article/133889/reboot-world #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/745868825640452096)
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cjk101010
morning
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colintedford
kylewm: A way to avoid the chat / indie(web-)chat confusion might be to change the "chat" in the latter to (eg) "chatter", "offtopic" (or "natter" per KevinMarks). (re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466659957936)
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colintedford
!tell kylewm: A way to avoid the chat / #indie(web-)chat confusion might be to change the "chat" in the latter to (eg) "chatter", "offtopic" (or "natter" per KevinMarks). (re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466659957936)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@voxpelli
@brokep Before that happens I hope we have all started supporting @indiewebcamp solutions – Webmentions etc. Should chat about it some day!
(twitter.com/_/status/745885937234739200)
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@pgeuder
@voxpelli @brokep @indiewebcamp Can "my mom" run that? Or will it exclude people with less tech skills than..eh..you, Pelle?
(twitter.com/_/status/745894260990414849)
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@voxpelli
@pgeuder Inclusion is important and it's something that's actively thought about – see eg. http://indiewebcamp.com/generations /cc @brokep
(twitter.com/_/status/745895162665111552)
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@poulpita
[indieweb] wanna build a controlled and independant web ? you may use @indiewebcamp building blocks https://indiewebcamp.com/Category:building-blocks
(twitter.com/_/status/745896413976997888)
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@egoexpress
Frank Karlitschek (@fkarlitschek) of @nextclouders talks about decentralized web in his #oSC16 keynote. Resonates well with #IndieWeb ideas.
(twitter.com/_/status/745897012223152128)
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@egoexpress
@fkarlitschek Regarding your #oSC16 presentation: Did you have a look at Webmention for the like/comment part? Seems the protocols are there
(twitter.com/_/status/745899207085654017)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Rise of the IndieWeb - Amber Case" http://amreldib.com//linkblog/RiseOfIndieWeb
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@linux_everyday
https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday
(twitter.com/_/status/745934310977454080)
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tantek_
greetings #indiewebcamp!
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tantek_
!tell kevinmarks,snarfed,kylewm,benwerd,benatwork,aaronpk,rhiaro The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro
What is The Long Now?
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Loqi
rhiaro: tantek_ left you a message 1 minute ago: The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466682278926
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "The Long Now" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10NY
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rhiaro
.. Can't find a link to a webpage on that form..
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tantek_
The Long Now is a foundation that focuses on [[longevity]], one of the [[principles]] of the IndieWeb.
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cweiske
you're probably expected to know about longnow when you visit a google docs form
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cweiske
from them
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rhiaro
Requires paid membership to submit, I don't think I'm qualified tantek
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tantek_
ah drat
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tantek_
is tempted to sign-up rhiaro for a membership
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rhiaro
Hah, no thanks. Too early in the morning to be agreeing to be signed up for things
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[tfg4k]
Hey guys. Looking for the Wiki entry on federated integration, can i get a hand
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tantek_
tfg4k "federated integration" sounds like jargon, what's the actual end user problem / scenario you're trying to solve?
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ben_thatmustbeme
Need to let whoever that chawathe.iprocess.firm.in person is to use dfn correctly
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Vipul1
ben_thatmustbeme : that must be me. What's a dfn? How am I related?
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah, the wiki edits, you put <dfn></dfn> around the word, not the sentance.
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is HubZilla?
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /HubZilla (+0) "correct dfn"
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is HubZilla?
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Loqi
Hubzilla (formerly RedMatrix) is an open source, federated, community web server that started as a fork of Friendica https://indiewebcamp.com/HubZilla
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ben_thatmustbeme
I was talking about this change, looks like you undid what aaronpk fixed for me as I had it wrong too. https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=28938&oldid=28912&rcid=28890
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm guessing accidental since it was probably working off of my edit, not aaron's
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Vipul1
While looking at history, I must've continued to edit. Sorry. I dare not trifle with things I don't intend to study.
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ben_thatmustbeme
in any case, do you run a HubZilla Hub?
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Vipul1
I see you've fixed it already, thnx.
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Vipul1
For awhile through openshift, as I mentioned yesterday.
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Vipul1
It has constraints, like url's that can be overcome if one wants to familiarise with it's tooling (PHP, mySQL, ..)
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Vipul1
*By url's, I meant url mappings
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Vipul1
Even with static hosting, despite content negotiation, my pages' extensions, .html, .svg show
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Vipul1
rather than human readable urls
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Vipul1
& that's not my style, but I am making trade-offs, so when things start paying off, I can keep investing in improving
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /HubZilla (+435) "add h-entry PR notes and current issues"
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ben_thatmustbeme
you can always record those concerns on the wiki entry
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Vipul1
My only issue was, unwillingness to commit to it's tooling (time constraints and all..) meant accepting the rigidness of an out-of-the-box solution, eventually it gets to you.
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Vipul1
Otherwise, it's very comprehensive, with very active development to meet any shortcomings.
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /HubZilla (+28) "/* Current Issues and Criticisms */ it has its own methods for verifying comments to prevent forgery"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Friendica (+314) "/* IndieWeb Compatibility */ add same issue as HubZilla"
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Vipul1
& it's developers are fairly attentive towards indieweb movement as well.
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ben_thatmustbeme
indeed. My PRs got accepted quite quickly, rather pleased with that
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Vipul1
HubZilla is more Friendica continued with rebranding emphasizing shift of objective than fork as just another alternative development effort, but I was unable to search & find the exact explanation post for the wiki
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Vipul1
*for linking with the wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme
well the code-bases have changed enough that they are not the same software anymore, and they have seperate dev communities, so thats still a fork, even if creator is the one who did it
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Vipul1
i. e. the contributors seem to be the same mostly
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ben_thatmustbeme
looking at the recent commits and PRs I don't really see any overlap really
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Vipul1
After spending abit more time updating my site, I'll put it in current issues & criticisms to be fair contrasting the 2
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Vipul1
yea, I had an older release, guess now the devs are better aligned with the respective projects focus.
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Vipul1
talking about Hubzilla is a moving target..
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Vipul1
Before deciding to give Hubzilla a go, I looked up conversations around it, rather than PRs though.. so my impression might be somewhat off..
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GWG
Morning
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aaronpk
Morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek_ left you a message 2 hours, 58 minutes ago: The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466682278926
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GWG
I've been trying to do some actual posting over improving my site.
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GWG
Mostly a small series of articles.
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aaronpk
Awesome
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GWG
So, far, on the first one, gregorlove can't reproduce my results though.
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Launching FrancisCMS onto the IndieWeb" https://sixtwothree.org/posts/launching-franciscms-onto-the-indieweb
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GWG
I need more people with test WordPress sites.
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is FrancisCMS?
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Loqi
FrancisCMS is an IndieWeb-friendly content management system built with Ruby on Rails https://indiewebcamp.com/FrancisCMS
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Repost of Converting WordPress Themes for Microformats 2 #IndieWeb via @Dshanske" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-converting-wordpress-themes-for-microformats-2-indieweb-via
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Repost of David Shanske's tweet: Why Microformats #IndieWeb" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-david-shanskes-tweet-why-microformats-indieweb-de97f66fb2
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snarfed
RIP PortableContacts, http://portablecontacts.net/ expired and is now "parked"
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek_ left you a message 5 hours, 24 minutes ago: The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466682278926
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snarfed
interesting
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Would be nice ;) #IndieWeb - Webmention support (#19080) · Issues · GitLab.org / GitLab Community Edition · GitLab https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/19080" by Pierre Ozoux https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2016/would-be-nice-indieweb---webmention-support-19080-issues-gitlaborg
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Loqi
Pierre-O: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 6/1 at 4:23am: all set, you can rejoin that channel now http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464780194712
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Loqi
Pierre-O: tantek left you a message on 6/1 at 10:55am: re: holacracy. Nope. Not a *community*, nor any actual evidence of *success* (more self-asserted marketing claims). That is however a typical example of the current fashion of sexy product site with big blocks of different color background you scroll through to approximate pages. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464803706264
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snarfed
aaronpk: just fyi i started a wm implemention report for bridgy, but it's awkward to make it talk to wm.rocks, for obvious reasons, and that looks like most of the content...so...not sure
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aaronpk
hmm tricky
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snarfed
you already have it on the implementation list, so maybe that's enough for now
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aaronpk
you could make a facebook post that links to all the webmention.rocks tests right?
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aaronpk
would still love an impl report from bridgy, since it's important to know the details of which parts of the spec it implements in order to progress to the next step in w3c
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snarfed
understood
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aaronpk
would webmention.rocks need to "sign up" for bridgy in order to be able to test it?
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snarfed
nah, bridgy doesn't require bidirectional rel-me
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snarfed
but yes that'd be one easy way!
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aaronpk
happy to sign up and tweet something if you let me know what i need to do
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snarfed
twitter would be more work than fb to link to all tests though :P, unless you want to make a dedicated page with synd links
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snarfed
i think i can do Fb pretty easily. i'll try
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aaronpk
whaaat
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aaronpk
they aren't *all* tricky tests
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snarfed
heh, it used the cached failure after the first one
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snarfed
i'll debug more later
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snarfed
aha, it expects the Link header rel value to be quoted
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snarfed
ok so at least it's running and finding bugs. that's something.
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ben_thatmustbeme
no one has yet to limit based on byte length have they aaronpk. probably because its really difficult to do with curl and php
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ben_thatmustbeme
so i'd guess its similar in other languages
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: limit what? wm endpoint discovery?
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aaronpk
on fetching the source URL
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snarfed
bridgy has for a while now
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snarfed
added that when a known site started returning >3MB HTML, i think due to a big data uri image
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aaronpk
oh nice!
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Loqi
snarfed has 235 karma
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aaronpk
haha the big data URI image might be my fault since quill sends that if you drag an image into the editor
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KevinMarks_
I bet that was me
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Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek_ left you a message 6 hours, 58 minutes ago: The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466682278926
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snarfed
nah it was...let's see...
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snarfed
evdemon.org
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GWG
Webmentions on WordPress limit by response size now.
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snarfed
<3s bridgy's retry button
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aaronpk
much better!
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snarfed
so much for debugging later :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
webmention.rocks: how to get around vouch :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
or rather how to easily find a vouch for anyone who is testing
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aaronpk
that's why it doesn't promise to keep the comments visible
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ben_thatmustbeme
probably best for me to blacklist webmention.rocks as a valid vouch domain at some point though
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG: I can spin up a few WordPress test sites if you need them. Anything in particular you were trying to test from your comment earlier this morning?
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GWG
chrisaldrich, this WordPress timezone thing. gregorlove found the test he did had a plugin changing the default.
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GWG
That's why his results didn't match mine.
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG: Kudos on the post this morning. I'm sending you a reply in a moment or two, in part as a devil's advocate for Gen2 and Gen3 indieweb users. (I know most/all of the answers, but thought there might be some use in the Socratic method.) Some of it you may have covered in your Part 2 post, I just haven't seen it yet.
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GWG
chrisaldrich, I didn't write it yet
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Repost of David Shanske's tweet: Why Microformats #IndieWeb" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-david-shanskes-tweet-why-microformats-indieweb-de97f66fb2
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GWG
Part 2 was going to cover p-name
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GWG
Feedback is great
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[chrisaldrich]
I'll try out the timezone piece later tonight when I'm back home.
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[chrisaldrich]
In regard to microformats
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[chrisaldrich]
I've been noticing that there are much better methods for doing timestamps than some of the ones I've been using by default, it's definitely on my roadmap, so there's no reason to bump it up a bit.
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[chrisaldrich]
I'd looked at your _s stuff a bit over the weekend and it seems solid. Shall I pile onto that PR to push the issue for development?
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[chrisaldrich]
I've noticed some sporadic timezone issues recently, but haven't had time/desire to dig in and fix them (other than by hand if they seem critical).
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GWG
chrisaldrich, it is also stage 1. I have to come up with a neater way to do tags
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[chrisaldrich]
I've had tags on my todo list for a bit, but they haven't seemed as important for some reason. Is there something particular (besides completeness?) driving your itch?
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GWG
chrisaldrich, completeness of the articles.
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GWG
I want _s to have it the correct way.
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GWG
And documented how to do it.
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[chrisaldrich]
Sorry, lost my mind for a second... I was thinking about two other themes I've been pecking away at and had lost sight that this was specifically for _s!
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[chrisaldrich]
having more themes support small pieces of indieweb like this will go a huge way towards helping adoption, particularly for Gen2/3
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GWG
It isn't specifically for it.
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GWG
It is the same stuff I did for Independent Publisher
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GWG
I am just using _s as a medium
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GWG
Because so many things are based on it.
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[chrisaldrich]
Yes, it's a great way to "infect" underlying code so that it's supported out of the box. The key is to keep people from using the mf stuff for themeing when they're not sure what it's really for...
shiflett, KartikPrabhu, snarfed, friedcell, callovarne, M-RyanRix, jdp, terminalpixel, Eloquence, myfreeweb, danielcberman, PFMurph, halorgium, comzeradd, _6a68, emceeaich_, kegan[m], renoirb, hmans, lmorchard, CaptainCalliope, michel_v, reidab and jkphl joined the channel
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jkphl
good evening indieweb!
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Interesting notes here for those into static but #indieweb websites"
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gRegorLove
Shouldn't there be a link on that second one? ^
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gRegorLove
watches an indie-tumbleweed blow through the room
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tantek
good evening
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tantek
GWG, I noticed you were using a US formatted date inside a time element. If you want to use that style of display, you must use a datetime attr for dt-published
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tantek
or just use an iSO date and stay dry
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Loqi
[indieweb] "IndieWebify.Me" https://indiewebify.me/
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bear
what's the context of those links loqi is showing?
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[kylewm]
I think they’re from superfeedr tracking “indieweb” … they are so weird :stuck_out_tongue:
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Loqi
[kylewm]: colintedford left you a message 14 hours, 24 minutes ago: A way to avoid the chat / #indie(web-)chat confusion might be to change the "chat" in the latter to (eg) "chatter", "offtopic" (or "natter" per KevinMarks). (re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-22/line/1466659957936) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466667485508
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Loqi
[kylewm]: tantek_ left you a message 10 hours, 17 minutes ago: The Long Now is holding a Long Now Summit on 2016-10-04 and there's a call for submissions for Ignite Talks! Add yourselves! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1f6zIEhPeVa7vIECZFhDC_LKxwa0mMyLuLgBKguRHKJA/viewform http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-23/line/1466682278926
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jonnybarnes
have we dropped mp-syndicate-to in favour of syndicate-to with micropub endpoint
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[shaners]
I want to raise a very real logistical question about all of the move to indieweb.org discussion:
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[shaners]
Who besides aaronpk is willing and able to actively work on this infrastructure now and later?
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tantek
the less work it takes to do and maintain, the better
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[shaners]
Still, he’s the only one that does a lot of this work now.
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tantek
I've so far worked on the home page
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[shaners]
That’s a low bus score. A bottle neck.
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tantek
e.g. making the home page and other wiki things work for us to make the switch we did for IndieWeb Summit
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tantek
shaners, I'm not sure asking "who" is that helpful, instead saying, "I can help with", which is how I signed up for and did the home page changes
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[shaners]
For example, who is able to actually do a mediawiki upgrade? Even if other people had those keys to the castle, who is willing to?
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tantek
so if there's a piece of infrastructure that you feel confident and motivated to help with, go ahead and say so
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gRegorLove
I am willing to do MediaWiki maintenance. I don't have direct experience, but am comfortable setting up a test version of MediaWiki and learning, and PHP is my daily programming language.
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[shaners]
I think it’s helpful. Bc part of what shaped my part of the proposal was my ability to help build and maintain some of those pieces. But as it stands, I’m not able to do anything about mediawiki or its plugins.
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bear
[shaners] i've asked multiple times across the last couple of months to help with the backend infra load
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tantek
thanks gRegorLove
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[shaners]
bear: what in particular does that mean? (not snark, just “back end” means different things to different people)
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tantek
I don't think we should be basing anything in the transition on "yet to be built tools"
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tantek
I don't think it's a good idea to make the community *functional* stuff a test bed
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bear
[shaners] as one of the few ops people in the community, I'm able and willing to help with anything that is needed
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tantek
your own domain(s) are more appropriate as testbeds for anything you're building
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tantek
and once you've tested it, it's built
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tantek
not "to build" or "to help build"
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[shaners]
tantek: that’s not been true so far. news.iwc.com, this-week, those were built and deployed on iwc.com proper
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tantek
shaners, nope, those were all experimental *additions*, not *transitions*. very different
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tantek
and as aaronpk has pointed out, he's not sure news.iwc was even appropriate, and is thinking of moving it to one of his own domains
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[shaners]
also, the web logs of /irc and the live chat of /irc were not built and deployed on someone else’s site. they were built expressly for iwc.com and deployed there.
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tantek
which seems fine too
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tantek
again, additions, and async with everything else
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tantek
no one is saying don't build stuff
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tantek
just saying, don't bottleneck any transitions on any "to build" stuff
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tantek
everything here has been through iteration
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tantek
without breaking anything existing
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[shaners]
i’m also not even talking about building a cms. we proposed using jekyll. nothing to build. but i can help maintain that in a way that I can’t with mediawiki / php.
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tantek
which helps because then you can pretty much eliminate all "product/project management" type coordination stuffs
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tantek
jekyll is less accessible than mediawiki to a broad set of people
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tantek
and it was proposed as a *replacement*, not an addition
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[kylewm]
please let’s not debate jekyll vs. mediawiki again
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tantek
yeah not sure why that keeps coming up
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tantek
I'm skeptical of any "yet to be built" *replacements*
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[shaners]
I’m not. That’s not the point of what the question I raised at all.
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[shaners]
So, again. my concern is the small set of people who are maintaining the iwc infrastructure.
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tantek
for anything we have
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[shaners]
tantek: please quit talking about “yet to be built” replacements. this isn’t about that at all.
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tantek
making more people dependent for their own singular piece doesn't actually help the bus count
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tantek
so again, that has nothing to do with that concern
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tantek
"something with jekyll" is yet to be built
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[shaners]
please stop tantek
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tantek
otherwise you could share a URL to a prototype somewhere
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tantek
which is what aaronpk usually did for folks when he was trying something out
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[shaners]
how many people have credentials to upgrade the mediawiki software on whatever server it’s on?
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tantek
seems like a premature question
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tantek
how many people know how to upgrade mediawiki?
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tantek
how many people maintain a mediawiki now?
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tantek
URLs?
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[kylewm]
GWG raised the same question at IWC, and bear raised it in chat yesterday
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bear
your both talking past each other
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[kylewm]
so plenty of people are asking
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[kylewm]
I don’t think it’s premature
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tantek
aaronpk maintained multiple mediawikis before we started indiewebcamp
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gRegorLove
aaronpk, tantek, and tommorris are listed as MediaWiki admins, so I think only those three could do MediaWiki upgrades currently.
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tantek
so it seemed fine / made sense when he suggested starting *another* mediawiki
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gRegorLove
(regardless of server FTP access)
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bear
everyone pause for a moment
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[shaners]
that was a fine way to start. but 5 years later, i don’t think the work load show be mostly on one person.
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bear
we have different threads and different readings of different threads happening
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tantek
yes bear
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bear
the one item that has been raised in the past and needs to be followed up on is this - having server level access be more than with aaronpk
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bear
so we have a bus factor of > 1
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bear
that I am working with aaronpk on
leg joined the channel
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bear
the other core (and very small # of) infra we have is the wiki - which multiple people have admin rights for
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bear
so that can be fixed by many
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bear
what tantek is saying is that we avoid having *core* infra for this very reason and encourage people to run their own servers
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bear
is done
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bear
I'll get with aaronpk and make the server access happen sooner than later so we know it's covered
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bear
thanks for letting me slow things down and summarize
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bear
returns the channel to their normal conversations
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tantek
bear, yes that makes sense
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tantek
increase bus factor
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tantek
minimize core infra dependencies
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tantek
that would be good to capture somewhere
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tantek
I feel like I've seen too many companies/projects go nuts with installing too many things, using too many languages and then you have a big mess that not only no one person can maintain, but each piece has a bus factor of one, which makes it *superfragile* - since the chance of any 1 of n people failing is much greater (exponentially) than just 1 person failing.
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bear
the reason I tend to avoid having any community ramp up on core/feature infra is to avoid having the care-and-feeding of that infra turn into another unpaid job for the people who started it (no matter what the level of enthusiasm was)
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tantek
sounds like wise words from experience
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aaronpk
Good afternoon
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aaronpk
I just woke up from a nap
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bear
this policy also allows you to politely suggest "no" to folks without seeming like it's a no from someone "in the core"
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bear
whispers to aaronpk ... go back to sleep quick!
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aaronpk
Just want to toss another data point in for consideration. I did a lot of work to make indiewebify.me run on google app engine and auto deploy from github in order to allow more people to contribute to it without going through me, however that has yet to be taken advantage of
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aaronpk
Not sure I have a particular point I'm trying to make, just worth remembering that while having this discussion
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gRegorLove
What is indiewebify.me?
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Loqi
Indiewebify.me is a service that checks how "indie web" your site is and reports back its results https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebify.me
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gRegorLove
What is indiewebify?
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gRegorLove
Perhaps a "Contributing" section on ^
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bear
looks like loqi is napping also
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Loqi
Indiewebify.me is a service that checks how "indie web" your site is and reports back its results https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebify
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gRegorLove
Good morning, Loqi
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gRegorLove
So when a PR is merged into indiewebify.me, it automatically updates? Or any other steps to deploy?
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aaronpk
If the tests pass it deploys
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bear
it uses travis' deploy mode to push to gapp
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gRegorLove
I might take a try at it. 26 open issues currently.
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aaronpk
Thanks. It definitely needs a few holes patched
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aaronpk
also, putting aside the whole discussion of the new things on /indieweb.org, we do need to settle on everything on the "rename to IndieWeb" page pretty soon in order to actually switch on July 4
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[kylewm]
aaronpk: does anything need to be decided other than docs. or no docs.?
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aaronpk
The big one is chat
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aaronpk
Since the current logs only support one channel
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aaronpk
I think everything else at least has a "do nothing" option even if that isn't the best option
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gRegorLove
I don't have a strong opinion on chat subdomain vs directory, so not sure how/if to vote.
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gRegorLove
I voted on the paths question, though. And definitely think #indieweb-chat should not be logged, as is current.
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[kylewm]
oh weird, some lines didn’t make it to slack
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aaronpk
Uhoh why?
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aaronpk
is there a pattern to them? Max like length or something?
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[kylewm]
missed the lines before and after you said “Since the current logs…" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[kylewm]
no I just mean, you can just redirect indiewebcamp.com/ to indieweb.org/ on July 4 … none of the other stuff has to happen on that day does it?
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aaronpk
Part of the goal of the "rename" was to also include splitting the chat channels
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aaronpk
and in my experience that needs to happen decisively and in a single day in order to get the most people to switch over
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[kylewm]
ok gotcha
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jonnybarnes
what will the new channels be?
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[kylewm]
not sure how to vote, I dislike all the chat/ suggestions equally :]
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[kylewm]
what is rename to IndieWeb?
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Loqi
Rename to IndieWeb is a proposal from the 2016 Leaders Summit, to change our primary identity from "IndieWebCamp" to "IndieWeb" https://indiewebcamp.com/Rename_to_IndieWeb
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[kylewm]
jonnybarnes^
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gRegorLove
I somehow missed changing the main room to #indieweb
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GWG
tantek, I know, it was outside the scope of the example, but it should be correct. Will update
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bear.im
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+561) "adding my thoughts and votes"
(view diff)
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calumryan.com
edited /event (+319) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
bear: Can you expound on the +1 for docs? Just curious, being the first +1 vote.
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+276) "/* where to put IRC logs */"
(view diff)
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bear
I am a fan of subdomains is all - it lets the namespace be as flexible as each needs
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bear
otherwise whatever isn't in a subdomain has to fight with the wiki for url routes
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bear
subdomains also give the most flexibility for where sub-parts of the apps run
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[shaners]
+1 bear
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bear
indieweb.org/foo == means you have to run an load balancer or nginx to route to other servers if what you have isn't running on the main server
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aaronpk
well the server is already nginx so it's easy to reverse proxy to other apps
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bear
not if the app is on another server
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tantek
bear, per what you said about minimizing the core
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aaronpk
scratches head
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jonnybarnes
but doable bear?
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bear
(well, it's easy but then you have to open firewalls and incur extra networking)
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tantek
I'm not sure we should be optimizing for "lots of apps"
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tantek
seems like something to discourage actually
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[kylewm]
no not always doable, depends on the app … getting KNown to run in a subdirectory has a been a royal pita
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tantek
looks at the latest chat options
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aaronpk
it's just a matter of changing the proxy_pass directive to point to another hostname instead of localhost
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tantek
kylewm: if you don't like the chat options, brainstorm and add more!
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bear
i'm not encouraging "many apps" -- just sharing what has bitten me in the ass before when setting up domains with possible multiple backends
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tantek
bear, I'm saying discouraging lots of (multiple) backends by not generalizing first is a good thing
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bear
until you hit that moment when you need the first one...
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (-19) "/* chat subdirectory */ simplifying my vote, a la kylewm"
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kylewm.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+52) "/* move to a page on new chat logs */"
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bear
[aaronpk] sure, that is possible - but now toss https into the mix - you now have web <-> ssl <-> nginx <-> ssl <-> nginx <-> app
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bear
(I freely admit that this is where my baseline/default stance is probably out-of-touch with what is currently needed)
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (-225) "remove bear's double link to name (it's in his sparkline template already)"
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+119) "/* news subdirectory */ vote"
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colintedford
Regardless of whether it gets logged, if the chat urls change to have "chat" in them we want to rename #indiechat / #indieweb-chat to avoid confusion.
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gRegorLove
so far move to gazette.p3k.io is winning. I feel bad voting and piling up more work for aaronpk :)
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+233) "/* +1 docs subdomain */"
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gRegorLove
But I think I'm liking it more than the other options
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gRegorLove
Though "leave it as-is, move it to gazette later" is an option
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aaronpk
this chat thing is turning into like 3 different issues and i'm worried the page doesn't capture them separately right now
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bear
either way, we have to get multiple channels solved
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bear
and where those UI items and log links live is the other set of issues (accurate?)
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aaronpk
1) IRC room names, pretty much already agreed upon 2) base URL for the web interface, e.g. subdomain vs path, and 3) URL structure for web interface
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+27) "/* +1 chat subdomain */"
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+108) "/* where to put bookmark aggregator */ votes"
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[kylewm]
gregorlove: you’re +1 on gazette? why may I ask
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[kylewm]
news subdomain is winning, for the record
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tantek
wow collisions
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gRegorLove
backs away from editing for a while
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tantek
nah, keep editing one set of choices at a time
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tantek
go go go
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gRegorLove
kylewm: You're right, missed that somehow. I'm +0 on gazette.
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gRegorLove
Wait, I'm confused.
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gRegorLove
"Redirect news.indiewebcamp.com to news.indieweb.org" and "leave it at news.indiewebcamp.com"
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aaronpk
if we bump up the header level the subheaders will stand out better. that kept confusing me while i was editing the page
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gRegorLove
I thought it was a given that anything "indiewebcamp.com" is being redirected. Am I mis-reading the second one?
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gRegorLove
In my head I was reading the second as "leave it at news.indieweb.org" which is the same option. That's where I'm getting confused.
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tantek.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+628) "/* where to put IRC logs */ add votes, change a few votes per reasoning from others, simplify chat options based on non-controversial opinion patterns"
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bear
aaronpk - did I make sense with my little ascii diagram about why I don't like/recommend that proxy_pass goes to any external entity (well any that isn't behind the same firewall as the nginx itself)?
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tantek.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+170) "/* where to put slack invite page */ dislike subdomain, combine with chat logs home page"
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aaronpk
i get it, i just don't see it as a blocker
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bear
if we are to be serious about security then it is
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bear
when you do that now all traffic to the backend server is from the same tls cert
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bear
you lose PFS and other benefits
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aaronpk
what is PFS?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PFS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10N_
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bear
Perfect Forward Secrecy
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KevinMarks_
at the moment chat and wiki have separate logins (and login model) which may be an argument for isolation fo cookies
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bear
well, you don't *lose* it - you just now have all traffic going across the internet with the same cert - and the web client would not know if the backend connection was MITM'd
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: i was considering combining them
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+86) "/* leave it at news.indiewebcamp.com */ changing vote; think I misunderstood"
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gregorlove.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+93) "/* news subdomain */ vote"
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tantek.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+266) "/* where to put bookmark aggregator */ changed votes based on others' reasoning, new fave option gazette"
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tantek.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+135) "/* where to put newsletter */ different than "news" and this week is growing"
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tantek
KevinMarks - see my comment. they should have the same login
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tantek
ok I think I'm done with that iteration of adding/update my votes
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tantek
aaronpk's (and others') reasonings impacted my votes
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gRegorLove
Is anyone in favor of "leave it at news.indiewebcamp.com"? Five -1s so far.
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aaronpk
tantek: i'm a little unclear on what your votes on peoples' votes mean
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tantek
it's like a debate or agreement
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tantek
in some cases other people's votes changed my opinion and I'm saying why
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tantek
in some cases I think the reasoning was flawed so I said why
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+65) "/* chat subdirectory */"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+33) "/* slack subdomain */"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+42) "/* move to a page on new chat logs */"
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aaronpk
ok yeah votes on the url design part of "chat subdirectory" are getting conflated
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aaronpk
bear and shaners both voted "+1 for variant 1 with the chat subdomain" but the vote is under "chat subdirectory"
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aaronpk
can you move the URL design part of that out? that shouldn't have been part of the question
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tantek
shaners "The wiki is too intimidating to drop new people into" is not going to magically solve itself with a second set of pages. if anything that will only make it worse because the same people not improving the wiki will also not improve a second set of pages
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KevinMarks_
I suppose edting the wiki from chat already means that they have implictly the same login, but we do lose the 'join the club' aspect of setting up indieauth wiht a specific goal
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bear
after a while I was getting confused so I just voted where I saw others
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tantek
only way to solve "The wiki is too intimidating to drop new people into" is to keep improving the wiki
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tantek
setting up a second parallel universe just makes more work
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tantek
and in a volunteer setting where most don't do a lot of general content improvement, "more work" = fail
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KevinMarks_
the 'what is" editing model does do that
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tantek
does do what?
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KevinMarks_
- make it less intimidating
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tantek
agreed
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tantek
I really dislike having multiple places to update for stuff
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tantek
mostly I suffer with that every other week because of events
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tantek
but I really don't want to see that get worse
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tantek
with other areas like home page etc.
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tantek
thanks everyone for providing such thoughtful opinions / reasoning
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tantek
KevinMarks, would appreciate your opinions in particular since you were a remote participant during the leaders summit
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gRegorLove
Good point. At least the home page is in the same wiki-edit flow currently. *if* the home page were a different platform, I think a goal for that should being able to pull in upcoming events automatically.
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tantek
bear, at some point when I'm more cognizant I'd like to deep dive on a gentlemen's debate on merits/downsides of using subdomains. I feel have things to learn from you.
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aaronpk
if the home page is ever not actually a mediawiki page it is *definitely* going to pull in events automatically
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bear
willing to go into more depth for any of this
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tantek
I'd really like a chance to "just" update the home page with markup+CSS to look like whatever "magical" design people are imagining
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tantek
instead of leaping to "we need new plumbing for my hypothetical magical new content+CSS design"
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aaronpk
feel free to! there's nothing stopping anyone from making significant changes to the home page to make it prettier. if you're worried about "breaking" things, then copy it to a page under your user page and experiment there
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bear
aaronpk - if subdomains are not selected then will we have to reserve a few /url's within nginx so the wiki doesn't get called for them?
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aaronpk
yeah we should probably do that for anything we're expecting to have in the near future
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bear
that's kinda like stop words for mysql - we will need to have placeholder pages inside the wiki warning people about it
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aaronpk
there's going to be some slight weird/awkwardness around creating links to the non-wiki things from inside the wiki
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aaronpk
normally you can use [[page]] syntax from the wiki to link to other wiki pages, but we'll lose that for any URLs on indieweb.org that aren't actually in the wiki
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bear
(winking) yep, that's why I love subdomains ;)
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tantek
aaronpk, I don't feel the urgency (yet) to redesign the home page
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tantek
rather I am challenging those that do
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aaronpk
really?
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tantek
to do the hard work of figuring out a UX / redesign
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tantek
instead of wasting time debating plumbing
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tantek
especially since the current design (three bullets) came from Scott Jenson a UX expert
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tantek
so whoever thinks they are good at content / copy-edit / design has a high bar to meet
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tantek
aaronpk - I agree with you about event boxes
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tantek
rather than the event sections
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aaronpk
what did i say about event boxes? i don't remember
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tantek
I'll try to brainstorm specific incremental improvements for that piece
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tantek
that we need them :)