#indieweb 2016-07-05

2016-07-05 UTC
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tantek thanks gRegorLove. yes on indieweb community has a code of conduct - go for it
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 30 minutes ago: Homepage edits look good to me http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-07-04/line/1467675732778
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tantek KevinMarks: yes, style problems remain - I did nearly purely content edits
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tantek definitely feel free to add style issue to https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki#Suggestions so we collect the
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+10) "/* Beyond Blogging and Decentralization */ The IndieWeb community has a code-of-conduct." (view diff)
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tantek !tell kevinmarks looks like we have an existing issue re: mobile presentation https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/27 please add more details there!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /principles (+10) "The IndieWeb community has a code-of-conduct." (view diff)
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aaronpk okay i need a plan C
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gRegorLove what's up?
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aaronpk I didn't get enough of a head start on the new chat logs
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aaronpk proposal: launch *logs only* on chat.indieweb.org for the two channels, but leave indiewebcamp.com/irc/today in place as the web gateway, and only mirror the one slack channel for now.
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aaronpk temporary of course
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gRegorLove Sounds good to me. Whateve rs simplest :)
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tantek aaronpk, that sounds like a reasonable step forward
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tantek also demonstrates the need to have separate URLs for "web app UI to chat" vs "chat logs"
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aaronpk eh, not "need", but this is a possible incremental step
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tantek I mean it helps right? then we could redirect each one as needed to wherever it's currently "running"
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aaronpk i guess. i'm just trying to reduce the number of steps right now
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tantek makes sense
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-151) "/* IndieWebCamp */ list indiewebcamps like hwcs, briefer, simpler" (view diff)
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tantek alright well that's a pretty big simplification of what the home page used to have for the big blocks of text for events.
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@altsalt I will follow suit at some point, probably post having my laptop back and implementing the #IndieWeb https://twitter.com/makoshark/status/750118367525113856 (twitter.com/_/status/750166455568576513)
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aaronpk new plan! dropping streaming from the new logs! lol
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aaronpk chat logs are live on chat.indieweb.org
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aaronpk https://chat.indieweb.org/2016-07-04
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ben_thatmustbeme i like how the channel name changes in the logs header too
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aaronpk check it out: https://indieweb.org/
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aaronpk ping
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Loqi pong
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aaronpk not totally sure how this channel forwarding thing works
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: from what i had looked up, it was a spam security feature really, have certain people redirected on join, to another room
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ben_thatmustbeme and its just setting the rule to everyone
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aaronpk well it's active
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aaronpk Welcome! Next meetup Bellingham, Göteborg, Portland, & SF https://indieweb.org/events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club! See code of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct, log http://chat.indieweb.org/today
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aaronpk oops
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GWG Another room
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GWG aaronpk: Can't I just join it?
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aaronpk yep!
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aaronpk now how do I mark these as done on https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb
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ben_thatmustbeme with bold or color saying (Completed on 2016-07-04)?
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KartikPrabhu this work?
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cweiske !tell tantek "actual fail 32 bytes" - you don't understand what that message actually means. Accept the idea that other people may know more about things than you - https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&diff=29258&oldid=prev
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aaronpk Loqi??
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KartikPrabhu Loqi wassup?
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ben_thatmustbeme ping
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ben_thatmustbeme did Loqi not like the redirect maybe?
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aaronpk hm Loqi might be confused about ending up in a different channel than he joined
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ben_thatmustbeme ping
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aaronpk ping
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cweiske !tell tantek "actual fail 32 bytes" - you don't understand what that message actually means. Accept the idea that other people may know more about a thing than you - https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&diff=29258&oldid=prev
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ben_thatmustbeme :(
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cweiske no, broken. https://indieweb.org/irc/2016-07-04 does also not log correctly
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aaronpk oh here we go
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aaronpk ping
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Loqi pong
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi, 1 or 2?
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Loqi 2
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ben_thatmustbeme what is indieweb?
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aaronpk what is indiewebcamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu is this the place?
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ben_thatmustbeme yar
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miklb finds humor the channels switched about same time Juno entered Jupiters orbit
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KartikPrabhu it is a cosmic coincidence of catastrophic consequences!
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ben_thatmustbeme i locked up my computer and just cannot get back in to #indiewebcamp at all, was wondering how my client would handle being in both rooms
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KartikPrabhu mine says " you need invitation to join #indiewebcamp"
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aaronpk it didn't automatically redirect you to #indieweb?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes it did. but also said the above
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aaronpk ah k
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, i'm off to bed
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KartikPrabhu have now natively switched to #indeweb
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aaronpk-test cool that worked
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[aaronpk] test test
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[kevinmarks] I see you
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aaronpk does it work the other way?
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aaronpk ping
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Loqi pong
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aaronpk web logs are fixed
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aaronpk !tell aaronpk hi
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu !karma tantek
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Loqi tantek has 298 karma
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KartikPrabhu good
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aaronpk important things
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KartikPrabhu hmm did the tell not work?
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aaronpk oh it didn't reach the 60 second cutoff
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aaronpk Loqi doesn't actually repeat the message in the first 60 seconds
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KartikPrabhu !tell aaronpk stay quiet for 60s
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you can talk now
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aaronpk hello
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Loqi aaronpk: KartikPrabhu left you a message 2 minutes ago: stay quiet for 60s
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KartikPrabhu Loqi, here's a cookie for a good job
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Loqi grins profusely
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aaronpk woo
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aaronpk slack is fixed
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aaronpk wait what
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mblaney I don't know where I am.
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aaronpk lol
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mblaney well sort of works :-)
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Kevinmarks1 Hm. I can talk on slack but not see it here
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[kevinmarks] But if I talk in html it does show up in slack
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aaronpk everything looks fine to me
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[kevinmarks] It worked that time
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[kevinmarks] https://indiewebcamp.slack.com/archives/indieweb/p1467692715006614
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[kevinmarks] Didn't come through
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aaronpk i fixed it in between the time it didn't work and the time it did
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KevinMarks Splendid
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mblaney should chat.indieweb.org update the page automatically?
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rrix hi there, from Matrix
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aaronpk mblaney: not yet
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aaronpk i mean yes it should, but it doesn't yet because reasons
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mblaney ok no worries. nice work so far aaronpk!
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@CaptainKurtis @saltyhorse @aparrish @textfiles me too. Reminds me of #indiewebcamp. Til then, looks like verifying w/ Wikisource b4 syndicating is best. (twitter.com/_/status/750209265697251334)
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cweiske loqi also does not show wiki edits
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Loqi yeah!
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aaronpk Wiki edits moved to #indieweb-dev
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cweiske no, that's not good
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cweiske ok
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@voxpelli @synvila Perhaps rather a feed reader that supports Micropub so that it can send your actions back home so you yourself can send Webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/750216584019451904)
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voxpelli Good morning! Nice progress on the renaming I see :)
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@php_by PHP: Allowed memory size exhausted - Christian Weiske: The http://indieweb.org wiki has a page a... http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-memory-exhausted.htm (twitter.com/_/status/750228885963350016)
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@andiramdani PHP: Allowed memory size exhausted - Christian Weiske: The http://indieweb.org wiki has a page a... http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-memory-exhausted.htm (twitter.com/_/status/750228888148520960)
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@chrisbergr Do anybody know if new users for #ownyourgram will be accepted again in near future? I would love to use it. // cc #indieweb @aaronpk (twitter.com/_/status/750241737260601344)
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@paviles PHP: Allowed memory size exhausted: The http://indieweb.org wiki has a page about Wordpress w... http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-memory-exhausted.htm (twitter.com/_/status/750246333793968128)
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@loicmathaud @indiewebcamp Hey, since today I can't join the IRC channel because it's now in invite only mode… Why ? :/ (twitter.com/_/status/750260531072827392)
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@HeNeArXn @loicmathaud channel moved. it should redirect you to #indieweb, if not join manually there (twitter.com/_/status/750297535449817088)
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aaronpk That is why the slack bridge and logs stopped
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aaronpk sigh
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cweiske what was its quit message?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "its quit message" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10PH
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petermolnar by the way, where is our slack living?
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aaronpk Ping timeout
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aaronpk I'm hoping the new IRC library is better at this
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@Inkwater_Masha The I-Don’t-Have-Any-Time Hour-a-Day Book Marketing Plan http://tonyriches.blogspot.ca/2014/08/the-i-dont-have-any-time-hour-day-book.html #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/750324725998620676)
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@RikMende Wondering what will be of third party commenting system like Disqus or LiveFyre in a future #indieweb (in… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/wondering-what-will-be-of-third-party-commenting-system-like (twitter.com/_/status/750326558489911296)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Wondering what will be of third party commenting system like Disqus or LiveFyre in a future #indieweb (in construction) world.." by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/wondering-what-will-be-of-third-party-commenting-system-like
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@voxpelli @RikMende Well, there are certain #indieweb style commenting systems that are very similar: https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ ;) (twitter.com/_/status/750328565745475585)
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@RikMende @voxpelli this is webmention as a service right ? similarity in the fact that Disqus is "comment as a service" or more? (twitter.com/_/status/750329031317487616)
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gRegorLove Hello, #indieweb
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voxpelli Hello gRegorLove!
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gRegorLove aaronpk++ for all the indieweb.org work
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Loqi aaronpk has 173 karma
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rMdes curious on how/where the chat.indieweb.org picks the user avatar from ?
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rMdes it's lovely done, in fact i'm not sure I have seen a IRC log that nice
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rMdes also wondering what should I do so that "rMdes" in the log links to my user profile in the wiki or like kevinmarks & other to their site
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aaronpk rMdes: that's all from https://indieweb.org/irc-people
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ben_thatmustbeme the first entry in that list should be your wiki user i believe
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ben_thatmustbeme and thats why it doesn't link correctly for you
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rMdes ok, so if I edit my entry there i can fix this, right ?
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aaronpk yep! it might take a bit to show up in the logs though, it caches the list
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rMdes no worries
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rMdes it's really just me today learning mediawiki, instead of switching to something else when I can't get what I want
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aaronpk hopefully we'll be able to use shaners' directory for this soon
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rMdes not sure how I did this, but it seems i have 2 users on the wiki https://indieweb.org/User:RMdes and https://indieweb.org/User:Www.rmendes.net
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aaronpk i think that first one isn't tied to a user account, it's just a page
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rMdes indeed, can I delete it ?
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aaronpk move the content into your actual user page and blank out RMdes and then i can delete it
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gRegorLove What is h-card as a service?
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Loqi h-card as a service is a prototype web service replacement for wiki profile pages and irc-people https://indiewebcamp.com/h-card_as_a_service
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rMdes already moved the content, just now
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rMdes yep I logged on h-card the other day and got my profile on the directory...(twice, not sure why)
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aaronpk got it
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rMdes thanks
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gRegorLove The "chat people" page on there lists by unique nicknames, that's why you're on there twice. Same for Shane.
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rMdes hmm anything i can do on my side to just be listed once ?
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aaronpk nope it's fine. after a bit we can make it list them differently, but i'll have to update how the IRC logs parse the people list in order to do that
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gRegorLove It's by Shane's design, so not sure. You could leave feedback on that page though.
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aaronpk he made it that way to match the current irc-people wiki page
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gRegorLove The display could be tweaked probably, to just list alternate nicknames under the main one
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aaronpk yeah but i'll have to update the parsing code since it would end up with a different mf2 structure
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gRegorLove I'm still unclear what happens with existing wiki user pages if we switch to that
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aaronpk TBD
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aaronpk whoa, forgot we had this list https://indieweb.org/to-do
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gRegorLove On the plus side, the "Additional Info" box on there preserves newlines, so I guess it can work pretty well as a wiki user page replacement.
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rMdes confused at how to format my user on the irc-people
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rMdes neither rmdes or www.rmendes.net point to a existing user page
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rMdes while the page do exist
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rMdes https://indieweb.org/User:Www.rmendes.net
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rMdes if only i could rename this just to User:rMdes
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gRegorLove rMdes: {{irc user|Www.rmendes.net|rMdes|your_timezone}}
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gRegorLove Works with a lowercase "w" too
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rMdes Yay thank you gRegorLove !
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Loqi woot
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rMdes i was putting the nickname before the domain
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aaronpk good demonstration of the downsides of mediawiki syntax :)
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gRegorLove I'm updating the template page with better documentation.
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aaronpk cool
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rMdes indeed, and i was looking at other people, thinking I must be doing something wrong
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gRegorLove Also a reason I prefer named parameters in templates
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rMdes today I also tried to use the RSS syntax but it seems the plugin is not activated
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aaronpk named parameters would help for sure
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rMdes i was going to put the last 5 articles of my blog on my wiki profile
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aaronpk haha nice. I don't think there's an rss plugin on the wiki tho
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk where'd you find a mention of that?
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rMdes I think there is aaronpk, i mean i found the rss syntax on the mediawiki documentation
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rMdes https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RSS
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rMdes ah yes not on the indieweb wiki, you're right
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rMdes a few years ago i was using this rss feature from mediawiki to have some basic monitoring (when twitter allowed twitter search to RSS feeds)
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rMdes <rss max=4 highlight="community wiki foundation">http://blog.wikimedia.org/feed/</rss>
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tantek huh, I see only 37 people here, but supposedly 123 in #indiewebcamp
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Loqi tantek: cweiske left you a message 11 hours, 31 minutes ago: "actual fail 32 bytes" - you don't understand what that message actually means. Accept the idea that other people may know more about things than you - https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&diff=29258&oldid=prev
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Loqi tantek: cweiske left you a message 11 hours, 28 minutes ago: "actual fail 32 bytes" - you don't understand what that message actually means. Accept the idea that other people may know more about a thing than you - https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=WordPress&diff=29258&oldid=prev
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aaronpk rMdes: i think i had that plugin on my own site back when it was a wiki!
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aaronpk tantek: the automatic channel redirect only takes effect when people join the channel, so everyone still in #indiewebcamp just hasn't quit the channel yet
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rMdes it was fun to use, for a short time after google reader death i was using mediawiki as a RSS reader
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tantek !tell cweiske huh? I think I understand that it is a very bad message to ever give a user and thus a bug on the server, whether with PHP config, or with WordPress failure to catch the error, doesn't matter. No need to make it personal.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rMdes only way would be to kick everyone once at #indiwebcamp
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tantek aaronpk, can you undo the automatic redirect for yourself or you and me (with ops) so we can then kick people and then when they rejoin they'll get redirected?
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aaronpk i'm still in the old channel, i could kick everyone
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rMdes i'm there too, the channel will be used for "indiewebcamps" i guess or it's a duplicate now?
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rMdes aaronpk, redirect does not work
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aaronpk what happened?
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rMdes i had to click on #indiewebcamp "join channel" to than get redirected
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rMdes and i have auto-join, using Hexchat
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rMdes so the redirect works, but it's manual
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rMdes until the user dedice by himself to join, he wont land on the #indieweb channel
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rMdes would be greay to kick & move the user or invite
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rMdes great not greay
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aaronpk oh yeah, i could try an invite
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rMdes you can invite me back to camp if you want to test
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gRegorLove That WordPress fatal memory error is probably more correct to appear on /PHP#Criticisms than /WordPress
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tantek aaronpk, yeah, let's unlock the redirect for a bit and try inviting people by name in the channel, and then kicking
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rMdes can't you broadcast an invite to everyone on the camp channel ?
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rMdes or a IRC notice
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tantek or wait, aaronpk jus saw you are still in the channel?
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tantek ok then you do it - no need to unlock it
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aaronpk yeah I'm still there, testing things with rMdes now
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tantek cool
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tantek gRegorLove: when that PHP error shows up on another CMS, then yes I'll agree it makes sense to move it. until then it makes sense as a WordPress vulnerability
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@RikMende if you can't join #indiewebcamp on IRC it's because #indieweb is the new default channel for everything IndieWeb &… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/if-you-cant-join-indiewebcamp-on-irc-its-because-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/750358126612754432)
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Loqi [indieweb] "if you can't join #indiewebcamp on IRC it's because #indieweb is the new default channel for everything IndieWeb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/if-you-cant-join-indiewebcamp-on-irc-its-because-indieweb
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aaronpk rMdes: how was that?
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rMdes its better
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gRegorLove tantek: I've run into that error countless times during all kinds of PHP development.
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rMdes this is what the user will see
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rMdes * You have been kicked from #indiewebcamp by aaronpk (rMdes)
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rMdes * You have been invited to #indieweb by aaronpk (sinisalo.freenode.net)
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rMdes but the user have to manually click to get in
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aaronpk that's not too bad. i bet some ppls' clients will auto-join from invites too
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tantek rMdes: sure that seems fine
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gRegorLove The primary issue, imo, is that the server config is displaying fatal errors rather than quietly logging and showing a user-friendly message.
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tantek will help flush out any abandoned users
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pfefferle tantek https://www.drupal.org/node/76156
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tantek gRegorLove: I think the point is that any PHP "app" should never get there
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tantek it's WordPress's fault for not being error-proofed against that
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pfefferle tantek http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?t=275276
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gRegorLove tantek: It's a WordPress plugin, not WordPress core.
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tantek gRegorLove: what it?
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tantek pfefferle++ good citations!
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Loqi pfefferle has 19 karma
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tantek ok gRegorLove go ahead and move the criticism from /WordPress to /PHP as you suggested, since pfefferle has now provided citations for Drupal and Joomla in addition to the WordPress example failure seen in the wild
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pfefferle tantek :)
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pfefferle tantek ...as a good WordPress fanboy ;)
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gRegorLove tantek: I'm not aware of any easy way for a PHP core app like WordPress to monitor all of its plugin's code and handle memory limit issues. It just can't know how memory-intensive arbitrary code is going to be, and WordPress obviously has tons of plugins.
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gRegorLove So in my experience, anytime there's been a fatal error about memory, it's a plugin doing something.
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tantek gRegorLove: every "platform" like that has some sort of "global exception handler" for apps to catch errors like that and handle them
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gRegorLove Not WordPress, that I've seen.
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tantek that error being shown is the evidence of lack of such a handler on the app's part
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tantek which is a bug in the app
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tantek !tell cweiske citations always work better than appeal to authority statements like "Accept the idea that other people may know more about a thing than you". See the 2016-07-05 #indieweb logs here for the discussion with gRegorLove and pfefferle for an example of how to debate / discuss this kind of thing without needing to appeal to authority.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@RikMende Loving the setup @indiewebcamp using IRC/Slack + Wiki = collaborative backend + collaborative monitoring of all… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/loving-the-setup-indiewebcamp-using-ircslack-wiki-collaborative-backend-collaborative (twitter.com/_/status/750361734624321536)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Loving the setup @indiewebcamp using IRC/Slack + Wiki = collaborative backend + collaborative monitoring of all things #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/loving-the-setup-indiewebcamp-using-ircslack-wiki-collaborative-backend-collaborative
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aaronpk ooh looks like I can script the process of kick+inviting everyone
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rMdes ha sounds fun
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tantek BTW - we know Slack bridging is down right?
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aaronpk it's back. Loqi was offline last night for some reason
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Loqi who, me?
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ben_thatmustbeme gives loqi a bridge
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Loqi runs away from the bridge
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rMdes run Loqi run !
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miklb where is that confounded bridge
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[kevinmarks] Just above the trolls
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rMdes & slack is working
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[tantek] So where's the stuff I put in slack from earlier this morning?
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[tantek] Like the google cal outage?
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aaronpk you sent that while Loqi was offline so it didn't make it through
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snarfed gRegorLove: re bridgy fb 4xxes, yup, oldie but a goodie. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/512
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[tantek] In other news, did anyone else see the Google Calendar outage? See screenshot here https://twitter.com/beep/status/748527397260111873
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Loqi [@beep] *looks at screen for ten whole minutes, then stumbles outside, staring at the sky, his eyes full of awe and wonderme [photo]
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tantek ok that's good enough
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gRegorLove I read about the gcal outage, but did not experience it.
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rMdes me neither
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snarfed outages happen
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aaronpk it's funny when everyone freaks out about outages
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tantek aaronpk, it's specifically when there's an outage and no "customer service" follow-up that you can do
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tantek it highlights the fragility of depending on "free" services
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronpk okay i'm ready to automatically invite everyone to the new channel!
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tantek woot!
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snarfed not sure i follow that logic
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Loqi giggles
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snarfed paid services have outages too. you can call customer service, but they can't magically get the site up again.
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[kevinmarks] Well, it's also a sign of resilience when a small outage is headline news
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gRegorLove snarfed: Is that the same issue? bridgy gets 4xx from the FB graph but sends wm anyway?
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snarfed gRegorLove: nah, the 4xx is before/separate from sending the wm
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snarfed the 4xx is for fetching and serving the response
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tantek snarfed, paid services usually give you some sort of uptime / restore-time estimates
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gRegorLove Ah, gotcha
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Loqi [indieweb] "Yesterday had the opportunity to talk #indieweb to someone launching his business - it was an interesting ground test to find potential "type" of business" by Rick Mendes https://www.rmendes.net/2016/yesterday-had-the-opportunity-to-talk-indieweb-to-someone-launching
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snarfed tantek: tracking and communication, yes. time-to-back-up estimates are pretty rough, and cold comfort.
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tantek better than no comfort?
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snarfed eh. maybe. not really worth distinguishing that much
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snarfed more broadly, i don't know that we get much value from cataloging and laughing at silo outages. everything has outages, indieweb code and sites included, mostly *more* than big well-run silos
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snarfed lots of good reasons to go indie-hosting, but uptime probably isn't one of them
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tantek snarfed, have experienced the *very* stark difference in "service" regarding security issues for example - fixed within *minutes* with a paid service, whereas with Gmail it took nearly 48hours
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tantek customer service in general is a *very* good reason to go paid / indie
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snarfed sure! good anecdote. security and customer service are different than uptime and outages though.
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snarfed if you want to broaden the subject, ok, but then it's a different subject :P
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tantek snarfed, similarly with "outages" e.g. for bandwidth limits
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snarfed again, very different thing
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miklb was there a difference for paid google apps accounts and free?
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aaronpk let's see how many peopels' clients auto-join from my invites
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tantek customer service is a general distinguishing aspect. security, outages, etc. are all specific "errors / exceptions" that are all handled better by paid customer service support
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snarfed not site-wide outages. the rest, yes.
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snarfed anyway, i don't think we serve ourselves well to constantly point and laugh at site-wide silo outages and imply that we're better at uptime. we're better at lot of things, but not uptime.
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snarfed (which is ok!)
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aaronpk there's also the more responsible services that publish outage notices on a public page
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aaronpk e.g. https://status.github.com/
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snarfed yes! which is only very loosely related to paid/free, if at all
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KevinMarks The paid Google accounts are more cautious, which means that they often lag behind the free one in features
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aaronpk invites are rolling in!
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rMdes nice
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rMdes have you seen the IndieHosters new bundle ? https://indiehosters.net/shop/product/personal-freedom-bundle-210?category=16
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aaronpk done! everyone has been kicked from #indiewebcamp and invited to #indieweb!
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rMdes seems a good setup to drag people on the open web
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iboxifoo worked very smoothly for me thanks!
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tantek thanks aaronpk. unchecking "Autojoin" from #indiewebcamp
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colintedford tantek, the decluttered homepage looks a lot better
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tantek thanks colintedford!
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colintedford aaronpk, thatnks for all the hard transition work
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colintedford (and the easy, if any)
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aaronpk haha thanks. some of it was easy, some was not, and some is still not done :)
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rMdes aaronpk, maybe, once the number of channels we use are fixed, maybe add some of them on the /topic of the main channel? so people can find them easy & get used to split their conversation by topic/channel ?
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rMdes just a thought, maybe not needed
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aaronpk With the new Loqi logs, it'll be easy for me to add other IndieWeb related channels such as #knownchat and #bridgy. Any interest in logging those?
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Loqi is done
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cleverdevil would find that useful.
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aaronpk I kind of forgot about those channels during this whole discussion
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snarfed aaronpk: sure!
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tantek hey I thought #microformats was already in that queue ;)
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aaronpk Oh yeah lol that too
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aaronpk has some work to do!
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aaronpk Hopefully I can spend some quality time on this stuff this weekend
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ben_thatmustbeme known has its own bot i know, but as thats its own business it mgiht be good to ask ben if he wants that or not
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tantek !tell adactio could you confirm 2016-09-24..25 for IWC Brighton and that you have venue etc.? I can start wikifying the event page etc. to help with that if you like. https://indieweb.org/2016/UK
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek feels funny typing an indieweb.org URL. so much muscle memory
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rMdes i thnk it would great to have the ability from chat.indieweb.org to switch between channels at the top of the web interface
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rMdes would give a great way for non-irc people to lurk and get used to enter by the door little by little :)
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rMdes aaronpk, http://prntscr.com/bp6nhy
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aaronpk Good idea
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rMdes maybe a simple dropdown like the Timezone drop down, so you save space on that area
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bear rMdes++ great idea
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Loqi rMdes has 6 karma
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rMdes bear++ just to thank you for pointing me to fixing my SSL issue
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Loqi bear has 149 karma
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bear glad I could help
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rMdes aaronpk++ for I'm not sure where to start to thank you, but in short everything
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Loqi aaronpk has 174 karma
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tantek was going to suggest tabs. that's what the w3c IRC web interface does
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tantek tabs for channels
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tantek and I think they even change color when there's activity
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rMdes even nicer, haha color change is fun
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voxpelli that's what Slack does as well
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bear wouldn't that force a js view on something that right now is js optional?
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rMdes almost becoming a web irc client
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rMdes bear, good point
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bear (unless the drop down is used for non-js and tabs for js -- now that I could like)
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rMdes good mix
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voxpelli dropdown could do a GET submit as a non-js fallback, but tabs would probably be simpler
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tantek rMdes: it became a Web IRC client as soon as the Join button was added ;)
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rMdes indeed
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tantek bear, the color changes could be JS-dependent. the tabs per channel could work fine with just HTML
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tantek that's fine as progressive enhancement
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tantek similarly with "live updates" being js-dependent
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bear k, was just worried about losing the progressive enhancement
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rMdes where is the join button now ? I used to see it
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aaronpk not implemented yet on the new logs
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aaronpk i left some notes on the rename to indieweb page
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aaronpk hmm i could do an indicator when there's activity in other channels while still loading the content via HTML only
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[shaners] aaronpk: when you get a chance, can you change the logo on chat.indieweb.org from the lockup to the logomark, please?
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[shaners] https://github.com/indieweb/branding/blob/master/logos/SVG/indiewebcamp-logo-horizontal-color.svg
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aaronpk it would just show an activity indicator and when you click it it would load a new page
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aaronpk [shaners]: sure
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aaronpk [shaners]: can you file an issue here? https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org
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[shaners] actually, i’ll just push to the repo
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aaronpk rMdes: also can you add your idea to the issues? https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org
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aaronpk can't work on this stuff right now and would like these in a queue for later
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tantek sympathizes greatly with aaronpk
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voxpelli thinks back on the discussions for an IndieWeb task list
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk i want to do that for sure
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tantek voxpelli: what do you mean by an IndieWeb task list? like indieweb tasks for your own site?
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voxpelli tantek: Wunderlist IndieWeb style
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aaronpk yeah that is exactly what i want, i use wunderlist a lot right now
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tantek or is this like using your own site for "productivity" and "project management" ;)
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cleverdevil there are already a few self-hosted open source apps that provide *some* of those capabilities.
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cleverdevil notably, Wekan, todo.txt, etc.
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tantek cleverdevil, and do the developers of those apps use them on their own site? ;)
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cleverdevil (bulldog)
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cleverdevil good question!
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aaronpk self-hosted task list isn't hard, getting it to work with webmention and such is where it gets fun :)
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tantek waits for evidence of selfdogfooding before considering any "productivity" solution.
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rMdes aaronpk, yes will do now
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cleverdevil indeed, just saying there are likely some good starting points.
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[shaners] aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/commit/989103bec80081e8fbf33099dfcf20ffce82cdd7
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voxpelli just like I can micropub an event or a bookmark and rsvp to anothers one with webmention, I want to be able to do that for tasks ;)
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cleverdevil https://wekan.io would be my preference to integrate with indieweb concepts.
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cleverdevil its basically self-hosted trello.
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aaronpk i've started using https://kanboard.net/ myself
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gRegorLove Non-software, but I've really enjoyed Mark Foster's FVP: http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2015/5/21/the-final-version-perfected-fvp.html
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gRegorLove People in the forums have experimented with using the method in various software, though.
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rMdes aaronpk, done https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/1
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aaronpk thanks!
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tantek wonders if some color background blocks would help with breaking up the text blocks on the homepage
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tantek now that I think I've edited the content down to a simplified version of what was there
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tantek also if people think of specific problems with the wiki home page they want fixed (with or without suggestions is ok!) please add new issues here: https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues
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@calum_ryan People of @LDNWebPerf come work on your own ServiceWorker at Homebrew Website Club London https://indieweb.org/events/2016-07-27-homebrew-website-club #perfmatters #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/750405613419651076)
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tantek nice
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rMdes tantek, depends on the color, but if very light, it could put the content more visible without becoming a patchwork of colors to much defined
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colintedford tantek: yes, i'd been thinking color blocks would help the homepage
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rMdes what is the default "skin" you guys use on the wiki ?
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tantek thanks rMdes colintedford
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colintedford maybe put the text in a white box set over the color background
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tantek what is the default wiki skin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "default wiki skin" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10PJ
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tantek the default wiki skin is Vector
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Loqi <html>
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aaronpk uhoh lol
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tantek WTF
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tantek I think the Loqi(s) are fighting
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Loqi woot!
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rMdes lol
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rMdes i guess i like the indieweb skin better, less wide
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colintedford oh yeah, limiting the width on the whole site would be good
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colintedford I thinks that's already in an issue]
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tantek I don't think it's in the issues - can you add it?
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tantek and this is for wide desktops I'm guessing?
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rMdes current vector skin is nice on laptops or less then 21" monitors
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rMdes and it's responsive
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rMdes but on my big screen it's like an invasion of white space
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aaronpk let's try that again
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aaronpk what is the default wiki skin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "default wiki skin" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10PK
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rMdes & for some reason the second picture is served bigger than the one above http://prntscr.com/bp7bng
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: Rick Mendes on Twitter: &#8220;if you can&#8217;t join #indiewebcamp on IRC it&#8217;s because #indieweb is the new default channel for everything IndieWeb &#038;… https://t.co/2xvmbUExKE&#8220;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14592-2/
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rMdes the default now is vector, the one before was Indieweb
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tantek the default wiki skin is Vector
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Loqi
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aaronpk lol one more spot
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aaronpk the default wiki skin is Vector
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aaronpk the default wiki skin is Vector
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Loqi
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colintedford you're right, tantek, I had it confused w/ an issue to improve mobile appearance
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aaronpk hey wake up Loqi
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colintedford adding...
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Loqi yo
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@kevinmarks Smart thinking on silos for journalists. Time to take https://indieweb.org/POSSE seriously https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/750390601129009152 (twitter.com/_/status/750411318872510464)
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tantek rMdes,colintedford issue added to track / make suggestions for the light color bgs: https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/31
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voxpelli KevinMarks: Regarding tweet – I wonder what an IndieWeb model for a newspaper would look like? I'm now working at one so thinking about it a bit
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KevinMarks Well, a newspaper isn't that different from a blog - make sure the articles work s standalone, posse them to silos, collect comments
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voxpelli yeah, very familiar in that way
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aaronpk replying to github threads from my website is fun
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snarfed aaronpk++ jealous!
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Loqi aaronpk has 175 karma
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tantek aaronpk that is seriously awesome
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tantek wait does Bridgy POSSE replies to github?
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snarfed tantek: no, https://silo.pub/
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tantek a-ha https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/333
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rMdes need to change work flow to also participate on git issues from my known site
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tantek ah already captured https://indieweb.org/GitHub#Bridgy_Publish
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aaronpk i made it so my site can add any micropub server as a syndication target so i can easily syndicate to anything silo.pub supports!
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tantek wow
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rMdes is it normal if there is no "join the chat" button at chat.indieweb.org ? button is present at https://indieweb.org/irc
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aaronpk which now that i think about it, means i could syndicate to other indieweb sites, like my cat
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tantek rMdes: in transition
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aaronpk rMdes: yes I didn't finish that part of the new chat logs yet. ran out of time last night.
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tantek aaronpk this works now right? * Update wiki notifications to send to #indieweb-dev
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rMdes ok sorry was just noticing the diff
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aaronpk yep!
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tantek how about tweet notifications indieweb vs webmention/micropub etc. to indieweb-dev?
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aaronpk those should be done now too
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tantek is playing project mgr :P
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aaronpk (webmention + indieauth, we don't have micropub tweets because too many false positives)
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tantek is crossing things off the etherpad
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aaronpk feel free to add issues to https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues for the rest of the missing features
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rMdes aaronpk, addin now
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tantek aaronpk, ah, ok I captured the Join stuff etc. on the etherpad to do list
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tantek (where I was crossing things off that you'd done also)
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tantek FYI: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/indieweb.org
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aaronpk ah cool. that was meant to be my todo list during yesterday's work party. i'd like to drop it in favor of github issues now that i'll be working in smaller chunks and more async
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tantek ok have stopped adding things there
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tantek just the Join chat UI and remaining redirect
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tantek uh, my view of https://indieweb.org/irc/2016-07-05 just updated with IRC chatter from #Indieweb-dev
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tantek is that by design?
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aaronpk noooope
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tantek "voxpelli miklb: thinking about maybe squashing the history of the main micropub repo..."
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aaronpk should be fixed now
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tantek hah just as I was trying to test it
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rMdes i had one more idea on the trunk: a simple way to monitor updated plugins or code projects on github & send to the dev channel (or a dedicated channel) alerts to git-pull on their own instance - could be a simple way to let indiesite owners to upgrade their instance even if not watching thoese particular repo's
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aaronpk i believe Known already does that in the #knownchat channel, is that what you mean?
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rMdes in my use case yes
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rMdes i guess for WP is just much easier regarding this part
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rMdes not sure it does for plugins, i'll check
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rMdes right now the only way i get to know if i have to git-pull some plugin or the core project is by watching the repo on git-hub so i know when merge get accepted or plugins updated in some way
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rMdes i was wondering if there is another way i'm missing or if there would be a way to automatise via irc/slack the process
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voxpelli rMdes: if tagging is used correctly then there is an RSS feed on GitHub for all new released tags of a project
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rMdes hmm interesting
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rMdes u mean tags on issues ?
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rMdes voxpelli, labels not being used for what i see http://prntscr.com/bp8dvw
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voxpelli rMdes: no, I mean git tags
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aaronpk ah like https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/releases.atom
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rMdes that's what i want !!! :))
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voxpelli yep, I use them to monitor lots of projects
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aaronpk nice
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rMdes but what if the dev update by incremental changes but does not "release" a formal relase
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rMdes release*
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aaronpk most of the time i don't want the incremental updates anyway, and would rather install updates that are marked as a release
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rMdes i understand, safer approach
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rMdes i'm too much locked into Known plugin context
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rMdes thanks a lot for https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/releases.atom not sure if this is visible by default, but i never found it
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aaronpk i didn't see a link to it on the page. i viewed the source of the releases page and searched for "atom" lol
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voxpelli I still have an RSS icon in my Firefox where I can see it ;)
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rMdes just fount this one : https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/commits/master.atom
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ePirat oh, channel moved?
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tantek yes. still waiting for ~50% of previous channel inhabitants to show up again.
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cweiske I finally found a way to embed the original source URL and the linking website into a downloaded image's meta data: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/exif-url.htm
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cweiske might be interesting to some here
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Loqi cweiske: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 5 minutes ago: huh? I think I understand that it is a very bad message to ever give a user and thus a bug on the server, whether with PHP config, or with WordPress failure to catch the error, doesn't matter. No need to make it personal.
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Loqi cweiske: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 46 minutes ago: citations always work better than appeal to authority statements like "Accept the idea that other people may know more about a thing than you". See the 2016-07-05 #indieweb logs here for the discussion with gRegorLove and pfefferle for an example of how to debate / discuss this kind of thing without needing to appeal to authority.
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cweiske and about the memory error: I don't know of any java web applications that handle a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError correctly
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cweiske just start them with a too low memory configuration setting and boom
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cweiske there are errors you cannot handle on the application side
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cweiske you can have heuristics of how much RAM the application approximately use
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cweiske and warn if the current setting is below that threshold
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cweiske but there is never a gurantee that the application will never use more
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cweiske that's like requesting a web app to handle a VM machine's ulimit errors
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cweiske hah
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aaronpk omg i just discovered the preload parameter in mediawiki
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aaronpk this could help with some things
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bear applications do not have the tools to properly handle an OOM event - by the time the application has received a true OOM event, the OS will have already killed it
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bear all you can do make sure your installation instructions or scripts are very clear about memory usage and patterns
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miklb I think there's been a general disregard for memory consumption with the lower costs of RAM in hosting. I've experienced it in setting up VMs locally.
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@WordPressTTT New #WPorgSupport > https://wordpress.org/support/topic/no-relme#post-8606486 > MichaelZed on "[Plugin: IndieWeb] No rel=me" (twitter.com/_/status/750442316326957060)
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aaronpk well this makes less sense now https://indieweb.org/indieweb.org
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aaronpk what is indieweb.org?
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Loqi indieweb.org is a website in development to present indieweb ideas in a form more incrementally accessible to generations beyond generation 1 https://indieweb.org/indieweb.org
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@WordPressTTT New #WPorgSupport > https://wordpress.org/support/topic/no-relme#post-8606609 > David Shanske on "[Plugin: IndieWeb] No rel=me" (twitter.com/_/status/750457895431598081)
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tantek seriously @WordPressTTT Y U tweet the same thing over and over?
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tantek !spammer WordPressTTT
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Loqi Got it! There are now 2 spammers blacklisted
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tantek reads logs
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[kevinmarks] Does this count as a silo quit? https://ariya.io/2016/07/migration-from-wordpress-to-hugo
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aaronpk not unless the blog moved from wordpress.com
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tantek yep
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tantek what aaronpk said
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aaronpk the URL as well
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snarfed maybe not even then
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/web_hosting#Hosted_CMS_Software_as_Service
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aaronpk otherwise it's just switching hosting providers
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tantek I don't really believe use of a CDN is inevitable
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aaronpk (using wordpress.com or any hosted CMS with your own domain name is not the same as being in a silo)
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tantek if there's actual evidence of that, e.g. from a performance limitations perspective, then it likely indicates a problem with web architecture
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aaronpk tantek: i'm actually curious why you don't consider putting your site in front of a CDN. it might help with the bandwidth issues you continue having with your host
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aaronpk s/in front of/behind/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: tantek: i'm actually curious why you don't consider putting your site behind a CDN. it might help with the bandwidth issues you continue having with your host
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aaronpk lol oops
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snarfed aaronpk++ for domain as the one key
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Loqi aaronpk has 176 karma
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tantek that is, if there is something in web architecture that forces, e.g. performancewise, use of centralized services (CDNs)
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aaronpk CDN != centralized service
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tantek aaronpk, how many are there?
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bear CDN's? I could probably name 10 without even trying hard
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aaronpk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_delivery_network#Notable_content_delivery_service_providers
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tantek akamai, fastly, etc.
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bear amazon, softlayer
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aaronpk cloudflare
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tantek still, low double digits is still an indicator of centralization happening
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tantek that likely indicates a problem
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tantek what is a CDN?
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aaronpk tantek: e.g. cloudflare doesn't even charge you for bandwidth, so you could elimitate that problem from your site altogether https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/
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Loqi CDN (Content Delivery Network) is a network of distributed servers that deliver content based on the requesting clients geographical location http://indieweb.org/CDN
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bear I think your trying to apply human scale to CDN tech wrongly
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tantek why doesn't every webhost offer CDN then?
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bear because it reduces their money flow
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aaronpk looks like dreamhost does https://www.dreamhost.com/cloud/cdn/
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tantek what? that makes no sense. why isn't "[x] use CDN" just a checkbox on a webhost control panel?
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tantek just as "[x] use https" should be
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bear it's a factor of load on their servers
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tantek bear, great, even better case for why a webhost should deal with it and not the customer of the webhost
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bear when you get the message from a hosting providor that "your using too much bandwidth" that means not that your using too much bandwidth but rather your causing their hardware to become saturated
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tantek something something on a server is a good reason a webhost should deal with it and build it into their monthly/annual fee
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aaronpk frankly i would rather be able to choose which CDN I use instead of having that locked to the hosting provider i use
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aaronpk same reason i don't register domains with my hosting provider
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aaronpk the fact that these parts are interchangeable and not tied to a single provider is *good*
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tantek interesting
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bear yep, the ability to choose the CDN and DNS providor is much more valuable to me than saving $1 a month on a hosting plan
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tantek aaronpk: analogy doesn't hold. domain name is part of your identity, makes sense to keep that separate
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tantek webhost vs. CDN is just different invisible backend plumbing foo
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snarfed decoupling different plumbing parts can still be useful
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aaronpk still, being able to move your host without moving your CDN, or vice versa, is a benefit
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tantek I mean at that point (using a CDN), why not go all the way and use something like IPFS?
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bear ugh
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tantek all CDNs do is serve static content right? that's what IPFS does AFAIK
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aaronpk i don't follow that analogy
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tantek the need is to serve static content cheaply/efficiently right?
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bear tomatoes are red, so why don't we use beets instead
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snarfed in short, CDNs are much more conventional and widely supported than IPFS
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aaronpk no, a CDN is not just for serving static content
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bear a CDN is much more than just static content
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bear it's a way of spreading *load* not just content
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aaronpk it can also serve cached versions of your pages to avoid hitting your actual server. that's what i'm getting at with your hosting provider bandwidth issues.
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bear because most web heads *think* it's all about static files that is what they describe it as
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tantek when you say "not just" or "more than", what *non* static content does it serve?!?
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bear when you watched a video on youtube you were using a CDN
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bear or listen to streaming music
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tantek is this the kind of thing where people used to put a "caching proxy" in front of their webserver?
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snarfed (bear: to be fair, video and audio are still static :P)
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aaronpk pretty much yeah, except a CDN will usually also host that out of several different proxies in different locations
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tantek (even if it was just different software on the same hw)
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bear snarfed not live content
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tantek (yes I get the geo distinction)
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snarfed ah, sure, but live needs a more custom CDN
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snarfed the geo distinction is definitely key though. it means you ideally need servers in lots of POPs across the world *and across network providers*, which takes a lot of time and money to set up
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tantek bear - perhaps we are using "static" differently
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bear not to go down a rabbithole... not with mp4 allowing for chunked content now
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tantek by static I mean something content which is not dependent on who the viewer is or where they are etc. no login depedency
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snarfed (which is why not all hosts have their own CDN)
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tantek as opposed to dynamic content - where the user interacts with the content and changes it back/forth, typically shows a logged in view etc.
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bear tantek - with that definition you are describing the world wide web
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tantek bear, before cookies, yes
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bear even after
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tantek no, see login distinction / session etc.
[shaners] joined the channel
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[shaners] What is CDN?
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Loqi CDN (Content Delivery Network) is a network of distributed servers that deliver content based on the requesting clients geographical location http://indieweb.org/CDN
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[shaners] Loqi...
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Loqi is done
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bear do you view logged in content on your mobile phone?
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tantek yes and non-logged in content
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bear then you use a cdn with your logged in content
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bear because every mobile phone network has them behind their NAT's
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[shaners] Everyone who has feelings about CDNs, feel free to add it to the wiki. http://indieweb.org/CDN
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tantek bear - sorry, my "mobile phone" does not depend on a single "mobile phone network"
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bear yes it does
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aaronpk tantek doesn't have a mobile phone, he has a pocket computer :P
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aaronpk no cell connection
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tantek I have a communicator, you know, like in Star Trek :P
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bear oh - poo - still the same thing, just ignore my assumption that it was attached to a cell network providor
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tantek what? ignore assumption? that was your whole statement!
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[kevinmarks] :flag-ca: is what I was reading CDN as
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bear your mobile communicator connects to wifi which goes to the local CDN that any major internet providor has behind the scenes
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[shaners] Why is there all this talk about plumbing?
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tantek I'm finding that hard to believe, especially with https
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[shaners] Everyone just back away.
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bear all i'm trying to say is that everyone is using a CDN whether they know it or not
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tantek bear, last I checked, when I make a request in my browser to a web server, that web server sees that request in its logs
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tantek no CDN getting in the way
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tantek e.g. with any interactive website (e.g. a wiki)
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aaronpk no need to get pedantic with the definition of CDN
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snarfed man have we ever ratholed semantically
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tantek so I'm a bit skeptical of your assertion that "goes to the local CDN that any major internet providor has behind the scenes"
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snarfed to step back up to a higher level...tantek, yes, obviously that blog post was overstating that CDNs are inevitable and required for any web site to be fast
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snarfed having said that, CDNs still are useful plumbing-as-a-service, if somewhat centralized, and can optionally help some web sites serve faster
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[kevinmarks] Is it worth distinguishing the 2 cases - the edge cache type CDN that is interpolated as bear describes, from the server chosen cache?
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bear I should no better than to discuss plumbing with this crowd ;)
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snarfed and hopefully we can accept them as indie-ok plumbing
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snarfed (i feel your pain bear!)
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Loqi +1
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aaronpk i can't imagine why using a CDN is anti-indie
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[shaners] Anyone editing that wiki page?
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[benatwork] I’m coming to this late, but there shouldn’t be any reason why CDNs are anti-indie.
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tantek aaronpk: strawman? no one said that
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[benatwork] shaners: I will happily add paragraphs to that page after work
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tantek wow
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bear yea, I agree with tantek - I don't know where anti-indie came into the conversation
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aaronpk i'm just confused about why there is even a doubt that CDNs are useful
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tantek no one said that either!
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tantek aaronpk: why are you fighting negatives?
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snarfed tantek took issue with "In the context of a fast transport of a web site, the use of a content delivery network (CDN) is inevitable." on https://ariya.io/2016/07/migration-from-wordpress-to-hugo
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bear me and tantek were just going down a rabbit hole of semantics and drug the rest of you along for the ride
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aaronpk whee
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snarfed lol
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[kevinmarks] The broader point of content addressing is interesting - that I see as the connection between the CDN view and the decentralized web view
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tantek high-fives bear
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bear ^5 tantek
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[shaners] It’s like a high frequency mailing list in here
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aaronpk here's a relevant question: does anybody here use a CDN service on their personal site?
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bear my main point is that often sites are positioned behind a CDN (or a fancy cache) without you knowing it
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aaronpk if so, why, if not, why not
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tantek aaronpk: hey that's a good question
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tantek so we can add to /CDN#IndieWeb_Examples perhaps?
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bear aaronpk++ for framing the question in an indieweb way
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Loqi aaronpk has 177 karma
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snarfed i know at least a couple people here use cloudflare
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aaronpk i haven't done that on my personal site yet because I am concerned about how it will deal with logged-in content
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snarfed can't remember who offhand
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[benatwork] I use a Squid on-server proxy, because I basically get no traffic. If I got more traffic, I would almost certainly use a CDN.
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tantek bear, I suppose I was hoping to distinguish a caching reverse proxy from a geo-distributed CDN since they provide different value (AFAIK)
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tantek yeah reverse proxy like squid
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snarfed hey, actually, i serve photos from a cdn
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aaronpk I enabled it on geoloqi.com but that's because there is no dynamic content and I wanted free zero-effort https
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[benatwork] All withknown.com hosted sites use a CDN
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tantek what is a Squid?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Squid" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek benatwork ^^^
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bear that is an important distiction to focus on - because each delivers value at the opposite end of the pipe
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bear oh, tantek - I hope your site (and your browser/software stack) use PFS - otherwise your being MITM'd with your wifi only stuff
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snarfed eg wordpress.com's photon CDN serves all of my photo album photos, eg https://snarfed.org/jackson-hole . did that mainly for speed on heavy pages with many high res photos.
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tantek per shaners comment/request, perhaps CDN discussion is something for #indieweb-dev ?
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[shaners] I’m using Amazon’s Cloudfront on dateedge.com. I haven’t wired it up to my personal site yet since flipping over to Dark Matter proper.
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tantek what is a PFS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PFS" yet. Would you like to create it?
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bear what is perfect forward secrecy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "perfect forward secrecy" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek I'm using Instagram as a CDN for my photo jpgs :P
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tantek I mean, their URLs have "cdn" in the middle, that's what that means right? ;)
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tantek ...cdninstagram.com...
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aaronpk here i started an examples section https://indieweb.org/CDN
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[kevinmarks] This is related to the spiderpig fix I made yesterday