#indieweb 2016-08-01

2016-08-01 UTC
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks, tantek, CherryPuffs, snarfed, wolftune, mlncn, mblaney, frzn, AngeloGl1, goodoo, cweiske, jihaisse, loicm_, Pierre-O, adactio and Garbee joined the channel
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Kongaloosh Hey Jammy_Stuff, I finished my new photo uploader and album editor.
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Jammy_Stuff Kongaloosh: When do I get to see? I am so hype.
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Kongaloosh pgp burrito night
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Kongaloosh or I could send you snapshots
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Kongaloosh I'm really pleased with how well certain bits work
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Jammy_Stuff let's save it for pgp burrito night
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Jammy_Stuff gives me stuff to look forward to
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Kongaloosh :)
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Kongaloosh I can't wait to see more indie99 stuff
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Kongaloosh is neanias helping out with it?
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Kongaloosh also, you should see if you could wrangle tbrb
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Jammy_Stuff I shall try
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Jammy_Stuff I think HWC Edinburgh will not happen this week
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Jammy_Stuff tbrb and neanias are both (probably) busy
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Jammy_Stuff but next week, I shall deliver the most excellent sermon on Erlang
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Kongaloosh Jammy_Stuff++
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Loqi jammy_stuff has 3 karma
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Jammy_Stuff Kongaloosh: I may be going on a domain splurge...
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Kongaloosh the best kind of splurge
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[kevinmarks] I am on a domain purge, as I have accumulated lots I haven't used.
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aaronpk Kongaloosh: i'd love to see your photo and album stuff too! i've been brainstorming about photo albums recently
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: the layout is kind of based on snarfed's albums; I'll probably put up an example and an explanation later today.
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Kongaloosh I'll ping you when I do!
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aaronpk awesome! then you can link to it from here! http://indieweb.org/photo-album
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voxpelli aaronpk: in Quill, how do you link to things in a note? html? I pasted a url straight into it, but it wasn't auto-linked and not sure whether the client, the endpoint or the one rendering the content should be the one to autolink a URL
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aaronpk quill just sends plaintext for notes, so it's up to the endpoint that receives it to do the autolinking
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aaronpk you could either autolink it when you get the micropub request, and store HTML, or you can autolink when you render it
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aaronpk I prefer the latter, so I store the plaintext that quills sends
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voxpelli kind of suprised that my jekyll didn't autolink it :P
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@RikMende Thinking about how to lighten @withknown CSS/JS load https://tools.pingdom.com/#!/d71PWS/https://www.rmendes.net/ #indieweb (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/thinking-about-how-to-lighten-withknown-cssjs-load-d71pws-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/760136592811929601)
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@aaronpk @fhwang Vouch is an extension to Webmention (successor to Pingback) meant to address the spam issue: http://indieweb.org/vouch (twitter.com/_/status/760141340776640512)
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@kevinmarks @albertwenger we have a lot of #indieweb options, including https://withknown.com/ and wordpress plugins. You can… http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/albertwenger-we-have-a-lot-of-indieweb-options-including-withknowncom (twitter.com/_/status/760141717450338304)
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@kevinmarks @albertwenger Come and chat about indieweb possibilities at https://indieweb.org/irc/2016-08-01 (twitter.com/_/status/760144719078830080)
Pierre-O, TheGillies, rrix, cweiske, tantek, hs0ucy, snarfed, gRegorLove, CherryPuffs, M-nd, M-rongladney, kegan[m], M-RyanRix, M-hotzeplotz, bashrc, AngeloGl1, mlncn, goodoo and neilpdx joined the channel
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neilpdx hello from portland oregon USA
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gRegorLove Hi neilpdx
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neilpdx hi Gregorlove. what's new
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gRegorLove Not much. Might have garnered some more interest for HWC Bellingham via reddit
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gRegorLove You?
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neilpdx ah great
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neilpdx i'm doing great i'm learning django web framework and some other stuff too
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Kongaloosh aaronpk, Jammy_Stuff, neanias, tbrb: I finally put up an example album
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Kongaloosh http://kongaloosh.com/e/2016/8/1/i-graduated-with-a-bsc-in-artificial-intelligence-and-computer-science
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aaronpk very cool
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aaronpk interesting, you interleaved images and text as well
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tantek aaronpk: quite common for articles
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aaronpk i'm curious, for you, how is this different from a post with a bunch of images in it?
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aaronpk is there something in particular that makes this an "album"?
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tantek looks more like an article than an album that is
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tantek there's clearly a story / narrative being told, like an article does, and the images serve to support that story
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tantek rather than the story supporting the iamges
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tantek s/iamges/images
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aaronpk that's my initial reaction too, but snarfed's example of an album is the same
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aaronpk so i'm curious what is the thought process that led both of them to call this an "album" vs an article that has a lot of photos
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tantek aaronpk, calling something a "duck" does not make it a duck, but rather, if it actually has the features of a duck
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aaronpk right, but why did they both call this the same thing?
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tantek I have a feeling I'm going to have to make a statement like that in post type discovery
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Kongaloosh I mean
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Kongaloosh it's often the case that albums have supporting text
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tantek aaronpk because typing is hard?
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snarfed my example there is unusual for me. most of my albums have way less text. more representative: https://snarfed.org/garden-nature-walk
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tantek er, determing type of something
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Garden nature walk
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Kongaloosh I guess like scrap-books?
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aaronpk ahhh *that* kind of album, interesting
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aaronpk snarfed: wow that's totally different from your other example!
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tantek Kongaloosh: scrap-books typically are *just* collections of scraps of things, literally /collection posts
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snarfed aaronpk: yup. more on https://snarfed.org/pictures
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Kongaloosh I mean, the only distinction seems to be whether or not they actually provide any context
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Kongaloosh which is kind of the point of having an album
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Kongaloosh tantek: not always
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aaronpk snarfed: those are much more like what i would think of as an album post!
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tantek open to seeing other examples
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Kongaloosh a lot of people that scrap-book, from my understanding, try to collect the story that is associated with images
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aaronpk i'm curious, is the tiling done automatically or is it something you do by hand?
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Kongaloosh Automatically! (I am laaaazy)
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Kongaloosh I made an extension to the markdown library I'm using
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Kongaloosh all of my posts are initially stored as markdown
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Kongaloosh I define an album component as @@@[alt](image)-[alt](image)....@@@
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Kongaloosh and then translate that to the html which is displayed
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snarfed aaronpk: automatic, done by jetpack
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Kongaloosh part of that is making it work with fancybox (which I nicked from snarfed's example)
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Kongaloosh part of that is deciding the sizing
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Kongaloosh aaronpk, tantek: I guess I would call anything with a bunch of pictures--regardless of text content--an album. Personally, I'd say that an article would just be more focused on the textual content, while an album is focused on the image's content. All of the text I post is really just explaining the images. That includes who's there, where they are, what's going on.
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk my initial thoughts on what an album was did not include the idea that text would be interleaved with images
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aaronpk the silo examples i included on that page support this
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tantek right, I think as soon as you start interleaving text, you have made the text more primary as it becomes the overall story of which the images are merely leaf nodes
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tantek the image content becomes secondary
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tantek since the textual narrative becomes primary
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Kongaloosh I'm not so sure
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tantek Kongaloosh, I think that's pretty cut & dry per existing examples. And it's what happens when you consider that the story starts to make sense even *without* the images (i.e. listening to the text being spoken)
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tantek making sense without the images = images are clearly secondary
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Kongaloosh A lot of physical albums I've seen people make are similar to what I've done.
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tantek people use a type writer to add text between images clipped to a physical album?
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Kongaloosh for instance, I can think of a few people who do what I did for each holiday they go on.
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tantek that sounds more like a "book" and less like an "album"
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Kongaloosh no, that's not what I mean
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Kongaloosh what I mean is that they have a collection of images after they finish travelling
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Kongaloosh the organize them in an album
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tantek sure, people do that on Flickr
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Kongaloosh and add either annotation
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Kongaloosh or snippets alongside
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tantek and there's no general interleaved text, but they do sometimes have annotations / descriptions attached to each photo
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tantek sure, snippets alongside a photo are supported in Flickr albums (or maybe what they call a Gallery)
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Kongaloosh personally, I feel like this is way easier for me to consume and enjoy later on. This will be way more functional for me to share with other people.
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tantek same reason people include images as part of a story! I've written blog posts that way too
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tantek specifically for travel
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Kongaloosh yeah, I just feel like an article would just use photos to elaborate on a story
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tantek example: http://tantek.com/log/2002/09.html#L20020904t2359
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Kongaloosh whereas I, to me, my text is really just going through and explaining each set of photos.
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tantek except that as someone reading your text, it makes sense just read straight through even not looking at the photos
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tantek it tells a story
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tantek whether you intended to or not, you ended up writing a story for which each set of photos has become additional info for the story
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Kongaloosh Sure, but I feel like if I printed the photos out, stuck them in an album with the annotations, and showed them to people, it would be considered an album.
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Kongaloosh or if I broke up the annotations and made them pop up with the shadowbox
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Kongaloosh so that the same text was there
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Kongaloosh just tightly associated with a specific image
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tantek or some set thereof per your "explaining each set of photos"
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tantek the text as it is currently when it spans under / above multiple photos, seems like it is at a higher information hierarchy level than the photos
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aaronpk i think that might be the key difference
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tantek thus it implies it is the primary content / narrative
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KartikPrabhu is this an album or articles? https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/walk-work
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aaronpk when each piece of text is connected to a single photo, then it's what I think of as an "album"
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tantek presentationally, that is the information hierarchy and thus semantic being communicated
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tantek aaronpk - right, even there it could be a story
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tantek e.g. my http://tantek.com/log/2002/09.html#L20020904t2359
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tantek and http://tantek.com/log/2002/09.html#L20020902t2359
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aaronpk there are many different ways to present an "album" on the screen
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tantek each paragraph is arguably connected to a photo, and yet, if you read them consecutively, it's a story
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aaronpk one of which is the flickr layout of tightly packed images with no text, and you click on a photo to see its info
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aaronpk another layout is like tantek's where each photo has text next to it
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aaronpk if you can switch the layout between these different options and still retain the meaning of the album then that's an album
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tantek that would look even *more* story like
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tantek since there would be nothing interrupting the paragraphs of text
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aaronpk but if the meaning of the post requires a specific layout of text and images then IMO it's an article
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tantek yes that's a good point too
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aaronpk where i'm going with this is: can you POSSE that album from your site to e.g. Flickr and have it retain its meaning
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Kongaloosh :/
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aaronpk does that make sense?
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tantek aaronpk, OTOH, POSSEing to a silo and having something only retain "downlevel" meaning is ok too - e.g. I POSSE RSVPs to Twitter, and Twitter has no notion of RSVPs. It just looks like a text note there.
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tantek Though I suppose I could start using emoji for each for explicit typing in POSSE copies
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tantek like we do the music notes for jams
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: I could totally POSSE it to flicker and have an album of graduation pictures, but you guys seem pretty keen on calling it an article.
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aaronpk well I mean, if each section of text in your post is associated with a single image, then on flick you'd post that text as the photo description. would that be approximately equivalent once it's on flickr?
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Kongaloosh If I just POSSEd it without the text as a description?
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aaronpk the text is important to that post though isn't it?
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Kongaloosh not really
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Kongaloosh like, I just want a way to collect my favourite images from a *thing* in a way that doesn't rot
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Kongaloosh in a way that other people can consume easily
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Kongaloosh this preserves context
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aaronpk aha, that's an interesting description that focuses on a user need!
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Kongaloosh this preserves who, what, when, and why
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Kongaloosh If that's an article, then fine. Inherently it's better than an album for later use.
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tantek the who is person-tags on a photo, the what is description (or other tags), the when is the dt-created of the photo (or dt-published as a fallback), and the why would presumably be in the description as well
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Kongaloosh Especially if you start adding additional image-specific annotations, which I support but am too lazy to care about
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tantek but when all that text for (who, what, when, and why) is mixed together in prose format, then it starts looking like a story rather than just preserving context
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tantek (the when could also just be in the EXIF)
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aaronpk exif isn't exactly easy to consume :P
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tantek (modulo the limitations that aaronpk has documented re: timezones / location etc.)
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tantek sure, hence "could also"
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: yeah
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snarfed fwiw, i've always tagged my pictures with words in their filenames
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Kongaloosh snarfed: I find it annoying to keep up with that after a while
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aaronpk oh yeah don't even get me started on timestamps in exif
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snarfed kinda silly, but it's been nice for longevity. the metadata is embedded in each file, and readable without parsing EXIF
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Kongaloosh snarfed: I have real issues with this, which is why I'm doing it the way I am.
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snarfed Kongaloosh: yup, definitely takes work to edit down and name a few hundred IMG_* files per album, but it's usually worth it down the line
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aaronpk totally
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Kongaloosh I guess I won't add it to the albums wiki then :/
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tantek snarfed, I do (did) something similar, which was to cluster photos from some specific even into a folder with words in the filename
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tantek s/even/event
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snarfed sure!
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KevinMarks_ If you posse your images to Google, Joe Smarr's code will make a story for you with maps in
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Kongaloosh KevinMarks_: that's pretty cool
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Kongaloosh I'm trying to think of things to do with my location data
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KevinMarks_ I wonder how take-out exports them (if it does)
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Kongaloosh I think that will be the next thing that I do
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aaronpk i feel like i just documented everything i do with my location data, where is that...
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KevinMarks_ https://goo.gl/photos/6DTunbWSfmUM92ur8
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aaronpk hm can't find it in the usual places, perhaps i should summarize on my user page
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aaronpk would that be helpful Kongaloosh?
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: I'd certainly read it.
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Kongaloosh :)
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@ChrisAldrich Mortgaging Your Site’s Future | @photomatt https://ma.tt/2016/07/mortgaging-your-sites-future/ Wise words here and part of reason I'm for #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/760237872523776000)
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aaronpk oh haha i found it
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/gps/
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Loqi nice
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