#indieweb 2016-08-23

2016-08-23 UTC
pl_, wolftune, seekr, snarfed, snarfed1, AngeloGladding, tantek, KartikPrabhu, miklb, KevinMarks, shiflett, KevinMarks_, plindner and mblaney joined the channel
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mblaney I had another crack at the indieweb logo: http://svgur.com/s/8z
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Loqi indieweb http://svgur.com/i/8z.svg
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mblaney I feel like this one has a closer connection to the indiewebcamp logo than my previous attempt. Would love to know what others think.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Reply to: Getting started owning your digital home by Chris Hardie" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-23 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/22/reply-to-getting-started-owning-your-digital-home-by-chris-hardie/
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@ChrisAldrich @ChrisHardie, this sounds a lot like Indieweb philosophy. (http://boffosocko.com/?p=55674503) https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/767966238270038016/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/767966238270038016)
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KevinMarks who made this one? http://svgur.com/s/8z
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Loqi indieweb http://svgur.com/i/8z.svg
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Loqi [indieweb] "New Look for Boffo Socko" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-01-31 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/new-look-for-boffo-socko-94985b3ffe1a?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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@kevinmarks “It is not about the numbers. It is never about the numbers. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.” http://www.stephenfry.com/2016/04/off-the-grid/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/767983465883021312)
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Loqi [indieweb] "“It is not about the numbers. It is never about the numbers. Don’t let them tell you otherwise.” http://www.stephenfry.com/2016/04/off-the-grid/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-08-23 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/it-is-not-about-the-numbers-it-is-never-about
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voxpelli KevinMarks: mblaney according to the logs
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mblaney what do you think of it KevinMarks?
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voxpelli mblaney: for some reason I'm thinking of a spaceship when I see it :)
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mblaney haha that's not too bad then voxpelli :-) I was going for building blocks.
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Loqi rofl
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ChrisAldrich mblaney: It's growing on me. Reminiscent enough of the original with a spaced invaders 8bit feel, but the individual pieces could be kerned together a bit more to better indicate the W (for larger scales at least)
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mblaney ChrisAldrich: yes it definitely looks better smaller, and I think svgur giving it a black background works the best.
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KevinMarks the i being part of the W threw me, I was reading it as inl
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ChrisAldrich To accentuate the W and keep in line with the building block concept, you could lop off symmetric triangles from the lower left and right corners
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mblaney ChrisAldrich: Yes good idea. That might help with the "inl" problem KevinMarks mentioned too.
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mblaney omg it's turning into the autobots symbol: http://svgur.com/s/9d
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Loqi indieweb http://svgur.com/i/9d.svg
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voxpelli mblaney: liking it more, although it maybe feels a bit too hard, angular and space invader:ish to reflect the welcoming spirit of the community?
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rMdes I have an issue with Woodwind
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rMdes since I moved from Dreamhost to Indie.host
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rMdes I can no longer log in with my base domain
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rMdes I get a service unavailable respnse after giving indieauth access to the woodwind app
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rMdes but if I log in with my profile url https://rmendes.net/profile/rick instead of my domain https://rmendes.net/
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rMdes I can log in after the indieauth woodwind permission access screen
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rMdes but instead of finding back my ongoing subscriptions my account is completely empty
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rMdes forget about my rambling above, I just managed to log in with my base domain
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rMdes just getting this error but all seems functional
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rMdes Could not parse syndicate-to response: Extra data: line 54 column 2 - line 56 column 1 (char 1393 - 1633)
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KevinMarks trying out a thing: is this clear? http://svgur.com/dweb
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@freekdeman @moniquevanloon ok, aanmelden als developer. dan ->https://indieweb.org/Foursquare je eigen data extracten en inladen bijv https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/javascript/tutorials/importing_data (twitter.com/_/status/768052575996436480)
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@jeremyzilar Indie Web Camp NYC is this weekend —> http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2 This is a chance to come together and work on the decentralized web (twitter.com/_/status/768095601976369152)
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@cmal_PP There's an #Indieweb test happening at the moment at @unixcornproject :) https://social.unixcorn.org/2016/test-de-withknown-en-cours-avec-unixcornproject (twitter.com/_/status/768100020050690048)
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PFMurph 25th anniversary of the WWW launch is today :)
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/768029506426671105
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@kevinmarks There's an explanation for that http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kritzer_01_15/ from @NaomiKritzer, though @timberners_lee might not approve https://twitter.com/uhh_kate/status/768028659965919232 (twitter.com/_/status/768029506426671105)
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petermolnar https://arxiv.org/abs/1209.3026 "Losing My Revolution: How Many Resources Shared on Social Media Have Been Lost?" - yet another reason for POSSE/PESOS
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@RikMende How to fix @withknown image issues after moving to self-hosted #indieweb: https://rmendes.net/2016/08/23/how-to-fix-withknown-image-issues-after-moving-to-self-hosted (twitter.com/_/status/768115738800492544)
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Loqi [indieweb] "How to fix @withknown image issues after moving to self-hosted #indieweb" by Rick Mendes on 2016-08-23 https://www.rmendes.net/2016/08/23/how-to-fix-withknown-image-issues-after-moving-to-self-hosted
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Loqi [indieweb] "Repost of Stephen Fry on Jacking out: "Off The Grid"" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/repost-of-stephen-fry-on-jacking-out-off-the-grid-a771ca1136
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Loqi [indieweb] "likes How to fix @withknown image issues after moving to self-hosted #indieweb" by Scott Kingery on 2016-08-23 http://techlifeweb.com/14884-2/
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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Salt hi gRegorLove
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snarfed hi gRegorLove Salt!
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gRegorLove Hola
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Loqi [indieweb] "Bravo ! this is a indieweb comment made on my own website :)" by Rick Mendes on 2016-08-23 https://www.rmendes.net/2016/08/23/bravo-this-is-a-indieweb-comment-made-on-my-own
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Micropub CR" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/23/2/micropub-cr
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neilpdx congrats @aaronpk
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miklb congrats aaronpk
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aaronpk thanks!
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bear aaronpk++ congrats on getting micropub as a CR
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Loqi aaronpk has 1100 karma (422 in this channel)
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KevinMarks http://www.fastcompany.com/3063060/a-brief-history-of-the-angry-social-network
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miklb is there a common scenario where an in-reply-to would be to more than one link?
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aaronpk what is a multi-reply?
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Loqi A multiple reply (multireply) is a reply written directly in response to multiple previous posts https://indieweb.org/multi-reply
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miklb thanks. Realized my jekyll plugin didn't support sending webmentions from an in-reply-to via micropub, so adding, but didn't know if I should support mutli
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funwhilelost miklb: where can I read about your plug-in?
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voxpelli Always support multi ;)
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miklb funwhilelost which plugin? Jekyll webmention sending?
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funwhilelost Yeah
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miklb funwhilelost I'm using basically a forked version of this https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io
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funwhilelost Okay, thanks.
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miklb funwhilelost feel free to poke around my repo https://github.com/miklb/miklb.github.com/tree/jekyll and holler if you have any questions
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funwhilelost Nice setup. I've been curious how people are doing static + indieweb stuff.
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@sillygwailo I guess all of us who are using Instapaper are moving to Woodwind now? https://indieweb.org/woodwind (twitter.com/_/status/768142678345261056)
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miklb thanks. micropub credit goes to voxpelli
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aaronpk i need to add emoji reaction support! bridgy is sending them to me now from facebook!
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voxpelli is investigating crashed endpoint
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miklb uh oh
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snarfed aaronpk: started back in april :P
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snarfed but yes! afaik ben_thatmustbeme is the only one who clusters them so far...?
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aaronpk yeah i just don't post much to facebook
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voxpelli KevinMarks: are you receiving any emoji reactions do you think?
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voxpelli I don't do anything specifically for them, but could perhaps be doing it as well
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KevinMarks hm, maybe via twitter?
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KevinMarks I did send some: http://www.kevinmarks.com/notinourstars.html
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Loqi Not in our Stars 2015-11-08
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voxpelli anyone supports emoji reactions through Twitter?
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voxpelli I guess it would just be a tweet reply tweet with a single emoji in it?
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voxpelli or, yeah, quote tweet, noticed now
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snarfed yup, KevinMarks was one of the first to experiment with reactions (aka reacji)
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snarfed but just for the logs, we ended up with a slightly different markup structure: u-in-reply-to with a single emoji as the full content. (https://indieweb.org/reacji)
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I should btw have fixed two bugs now that has crashed my endpoint a few times the last weeks
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snarfed (as opposed to quote tweets/posts, which are a bit different)
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voxpelli embarrassingly enough introduced a bug in his large refactoring that crashed the app on every 404 lookup of a webmention source
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/662006580267773953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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@kevinmarks 🌟 https://twitter.com/sarawinge/status/661992450773270528 (twitter.com/_/status/662006580267773953)
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snarfed s/just for the logs//
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miklb guess it's time for me to start testing with webmention.rocks I'm not happy with how my mentions show up :(
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miklb or don't really show up
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voxpelli miklb: got some examples?
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miklb voxpelli https://miklb.com/social/2016/08/23/53088/ all that showed up on adactio's post is my site title
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aaronpk ah probably because the post permalink has an h-feed
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aaronpk most consumers of comments only look for an h-entry
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aaronpk my first reaction to "why does my comment look weird" is to look at it in an mf2 parser: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmiklb.com%2Fsocial%2F2016%2F08%2F23%2F53088%2F
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@ChrisAldrich @cleverdevil Care to join us for Homebrew Website Club tomorrow? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Los_Angeles (twitter.com/_/status/768155482238451712)
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voxpelli yeah, nesting the post in an h-feed will make it harder to find
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miklb ah, so I should only add h-feed to index and not single posts?
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aaronpk right
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miklb cool, thanks!
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aaronpk since the single post is not a feed
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miklb heh
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[kevinmarks] Well, some posts have comments feeds
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KartikPrabhu not on the main post
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@ChrisAldrich @nataliemac I just left you a message about some upcoming events relating to #Indieweb in Los Angeles https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/768158692382388224)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@nataliemac I just left you a message about some upcoming events relating to #Indieweb in Los Angeles https://indieweb.org/" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/nataliemac-i-just-left-you-a-message-about-some-upcoming
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aaronpk those are marked up as "p-comment h-entry" on the main h-entry
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[kevinmarks] I know, I meant in the old fashioned sense of linked atom/rss ones
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aaronpk that doesn't sound relevant
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voxpelli I'm moving towards linked comments feed – because of curlability
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voxpelli voxpelli.com currently uses a "u-responses" linked comments feed that is progressively enhanced to a javascript embed
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voxpelli as curlability is needed for Salmentions
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KartikPrabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/FB-open-web-irony
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] The irony of FB suggesting this post: #indieweb https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kQLKz42zlz6owmQMSCx8gwsb5q_3yoUqfd7zTC0An3MQsnddyHrL5mHHcq0vCaTA0aEMNxNSmdJN8vTv3rSiIvHZoMViEuilSZfazLyIQmjdSWaZa_2Qtu8veAFHN0sv4Uw1qtp1TNszHNfc6gfHFssnSIybKjGivGzC1f3slJFhexyptSCdG6ZQu9UNfBWF7Gs9GL6sR9AMlaBwMkJJsA_sDqIK0QFpCi5rXEM3fiO168iFefU41LSznsJRoEZmCqhfo00xetNa_9YjBbkWTsChvDizo1QZo1cljLaZg6vz3TPPdFcsgM40KcXxcrNpXjAgINzOMTc1h-Tdn5DN9BnmG4DVz2iaBE7X4bSN4jqSTU1O7YY7QfbJQnwtbgCLWhVELrrTNGdIRYZoLk71oiOkIL3vs_lHWCVyHAZHhNdsGzIu4lppUum8UT7Wbbjc5N4vHxtgh1Bw5McC2zTCCrxw6cJ6mgfrgKs_Dwa8dn_WgI51kAHQknSVRRQJiFlQb6tesDU1DF1ZR6XQYGYD7BEMBlXTuHK5rwcFbSWYH_WmyhMLpafEYUVhNfrPHO345n6b5O0GShz6MtRKO6wVcubCGdzgXHHI=s500
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KartikPrabhu oh! wow!
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aaronpk that's quite the photo URL
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KartikPrabhu yeah google photos
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KartikPrabhu sorry about that
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@kevinmarks Thanks to @Suw for her brilliant "privacy gradients" posts about twitter http://charman-anderson.com/2016/08/11/tackling-twitter-abuse/ http://charman-anderson.com/2010/03/01/a-web-for-introverts-privacy-gradients-and-trust/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/768163336395423744)
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aaronpk i wonder if Loqi should use his own URL shortener in cases like that
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KartikPrabhu or maybe just write "a photo"
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aaronpk long image URLs shouldn't be a problem
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aaronpk nah it's nice that the URL shows up in IRC, for clients that display them inline
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KartikPrabhu yeah that is true
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GWG Afternoon
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[kevinmarks] If you change the numbers =s500 on the end that will scale it server side
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KartikPrabhu I know. which is why I use it :)
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KartikPrabhu it is my google hack for responsive images
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[kevinmarks] Me too, though I have wrapped them in my own urls before
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[kevinmarks] Then you can do srcset easily
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KartikPrabhu yeah I should use some manner of photo storage/server, but haven't gotten to it yet
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GWG How about a media endpoint as described in Micropub?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I'll still have to store the photos and serve them
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GWG What are you thinking for that?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you thinking for that" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu so far nothing
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GWG Ok.
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Loqi [indieweb] "What Is the Decentralized Web? 24 Experts Break it Down" by Mackenzie Polzin on 2016-07-29 http://infospace.ischool.syr.edu/2016/07/29/test-decentralized-web-24-experts-break/
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[kevinmarks] The appengine thing makes it fairly easy
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[kevinmarks] Talking of which, kind of, any thoughts on this now it's daytime? http://svgur.com/dweb
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: yea, but you have to setup appengine which is non trivial to say the least
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aaronpk chrisaldrich_: I put together an order form for shirts! If you order one, I will throw in some stickers into the package too!
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aaronpk https://gum.co/iwc-shirt
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tantek is it possible to order shirts in time for IWC NYC2?
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aaronpk definitely can't get new ones printed in time
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chrisaldrich_ thanks aaronpk, but you didn't need to create UI for me to do this! I could have gone 18th century old school...
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aaronpk i might be able to get some of my stock shipped to arrive in time
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aaronpk chrisaldrich_: haha it was easier for me to do it that way :) i have enough here to sell that it'll be easier to handle orders through gumroad
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk i seem to have given out most of my IWC stickers already!
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@sillygwailo @ChrisAldrich I don’t know. I wasn’t the one who put Woodwind in the “Time Shifting and Reading” row at https://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure (twitter.com/_/status/768182460295380992)
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chrisaldrich_ even a couple will be useful. I've got enough time to potentially make some of my own with downloadable artwork, but it would be nice to have some samples on hand.
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aaronpk i have enough to send you some for sure
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aaronpk i'm going to order more right now too
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: you might want to respond to https://twitter.com/sillygwailo/status/768182460295380992
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@sillygwailo @ChrisAldrich I don’t know. I wasn’t the one who put Woodwind in the “Time Shifting and Reading” row at https://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure (twitter.com/_/status/768182460295380992)
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KartikPrabhu what does time shifting even mean!?
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chrisaldrich_ order placed!
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chrisaldrich_ What is time shifting?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "time shifting" yet. Would you like to create it?
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chrisaldrich_ Time shifting is the act of recording or saving a piece of content (usually video, audio) that is live and consuming it at a later date.
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu chrisaldrich_: how is it different from bookmarking?
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KartikPrabhu is the content stored on your own server/locally ?
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chrisaldrich_ typically since most text on the internet is static over time, timeshifting doesn't apply the way it does with video content. The term usually applies to live television which is recorded via DVR, VHS, other and watched later.
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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KartikPrabhu from that pov the last row of the table https://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure does not seem to invlude any "time shifting" at all
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chrisaldrich_ As an example, I love watching/listening to Gilmor Gang, but Steve prefers to only make it easy to consume live. I use Huffduffer and other tools to timeshift it and listen when I want.
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chrisaldrich_ Time shifting should probably be a separate line from reading, but I get the idea
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tantek Did anyone write a response to @anildash's https://medium.com/@anildash/the-lost-infrastructure-of-social-media-d2b95662ccd3 answering all his subheads with how it is done, with standards, on the IndieWeb, *today* ?
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tantek note also the phrasing that anildash uses:
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tantek in his concluding paragraph!
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tantek "My hope is that those who are building tools today will see what’s come before and use it as inspiration to help give ***voice to people*** on the web in ways that are a bit more open-ended and a little less ***corporate-controlled*** than the platforms we have today."
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tantek ***emphasis*** added
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tantek Anil is either deliberately, or independently citing the same contrast that we note in our tagline: "The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web". "
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tantek Another good example of why/how the current tagline is a good summary of what people want, which is what a tagline should appeal to.
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aaronpk kevin made that https://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure page in response to anil's article, but i haven't seen a blog post response yet
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aaronpk also:
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aaronpk what is a tagline?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/tagline
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tantek adding
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sknebel uhmm... indieweb.org seems to have DNS troubles?
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miklb Just saw Feed Wrangler is down for same reason
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miklb https://twitter.com/FeedWrangler/status/768188411257626624
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@FeedWrangler Feed Wrangler is currently experiencing a service disruption caused by an outage with our DNS provider. Should hopefully be resolved soon. (twitter.com/_/status/768188411257626624)
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aaronpk Linode is having DNS trouble too https://status.linode.com/
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@kevinmarks “We’ve seen this story before… next thing you know, your favorite app is dead.” http://gizmodo.com/pinterest-bought-instapaper-and-that-makes-me-nervous-1785659406 - @film_girl https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/768189099370958848)
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tantek added
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tantek https://indieweb.org/tagline#Similar_Usage
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tantek ok, /lost_infrastructure is a good start, however I feel a proper prose point by point / section by section response is needed as a firm blog post
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@ChrisAldrich @linklockerapp @jbwhaley Why create another me-too service? If #Instapaper is any indicator, maybe opensourcing is better idea? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/768202144038031360)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@linklockerapp @jbwhaley Why create another me-too service? If #Instapaper is any indicator, maybe opensourcing is better idea? #indieweb" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-23 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/linklockerapp-jbwhaley-why-create-another-me-too-service-if-instapaper-is
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@ChrisAldrich @jbwhaley @linklockerapp Given the competition https://indieweb.org/read_later and history https://indieweb.org/site-deaths you may be wrong... ;) (twitter.com/_/status/768204442722115584)
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gRegorLove Instapaper acquired by Pinterest? Uh oh
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gRegorLove http://blog.instapaper.com/post/149374303661
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ChrisAldrich gRegorLove: I feel like it's my fault for creating /read_later on the wiki yesterday...
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gRegorLove Hah
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gRegorLove I liked your post about reading / read later post types. Still processing.
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ChrisAldrich Given the list of competitors and alternatives out there, I suppose the area is ripe for consolidation.
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ChrisAldrich I've been playing around with the open source https://www.wallabag.org/ to see what else I might consider doing as part of a bigger workflow.
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ChrisAldrich Loqi++ for "giving voice" to people when they enter IRC... it's such an indieweb type of sentiment
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Loqi loqi has 406 karma (52 in this channel)
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tantek ChrisAldrich: I think it's only if you're in /irc-people ?
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aaronpk yep!
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aaronpk makes IRC look more like the web logs where people on irc-people are hyperlinked and bold
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gkbrk a lot more nicks with voice today
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gkbrk people adding themselves to the wiki for the pretty colors?
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aaronpk loqi only +v people when they join or say something, so probabky taking a while to "sync up"
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sknebel most seem longtimers, so probably just people rejoining and getting +v then?
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Loqi I think only +v people when they join
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sknebel Loqi?
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aaronpk ha
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ChrisAldrich gRegorLove, some of my difficulty on the reading problem is that I also want to cross over into reading devices and workflows to include Kindle, et al.
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gRegorLove Yeah, that'd be tricky
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gkbrk loqi becoming sentient again
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gRegorLove For now I'm mostly interested in tracking: 1) what books I've read 2) whether i own a copy 3) my reading progress
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ChrisAldrich I've got a bit of a pin in that piece for a moment, but want to be able to hook into it at a later date. Having services like hypothes.is, google books, and goodreads with APIs helps a bit. I also lean heavily on Calibre and it's data on my laptop, so I'd like to have that as a piece too.
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miklb !tell voxpelli just starting to look this over, wonder if it could be useful for micropub at some point https://jekyll.github.io/jekyll-admin/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ChrisAldrich Since GoodReads supports fairly simple and robust data export, I've used the scanner on their mobile app to scan the ISBN barcodes of the majority of my 2k+ books to at least have the basic data.
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ChrisAldrich Calibre also has a goodreads plugin that allows you to sync to your goodreads data for e-books pretty quickly. These two pieces will give you huge amounts of data for export/import.
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gRegorLove Cool. I've used Calibre occasionally. I haven't gotten heavily into e-book reading though.
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petermolnar if anyone is aware of an easily queryable, ISBN based, world-wide book archive, I'm in as well
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gRegorLove worldcat, I think it's called?
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gRegorLove https://www.worldcat.org/
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gRegorLove I don't know about API queries, if that's what you mean.
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petermolnar it's still neat, I've just tested a few, 20+ years old Hungarian ISBN numbers and they are there
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@ade_oshineye @bruntonspall both but always mark your site as the canonical #posse #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/768215635599953925)
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petermolnar thanks
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ChrisAldrich I've seen a few services use calls to google books for ISBN data requests. Calibre uses calls to a few different services to pull back book metadata. The problem is books prior to about 1974 when ISBNs were standardized....
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ChrisAldrich there are somewhat obscure services like libx.org that can be used to plug into major university library stores and worldcat as well
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ChrisAldrich I haven't dug into it yet, but I think Mendeley.com has some reasonable API infrastructure for delving into big swaths of journal articles and ISSNs
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ChrisAldrich I may be the exception in indieweb for interest in that type of academia however...
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bear http://www.worldcat.org/affiliate/tools?atype=wcapi https://openlibrary.org/developers/api https://github.com/bookfinder/Book-Finder-Api http://developer.ebay.com/DevZone/half-finding/Concepts/HalfFindingAPIGuide.html http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/LibraryThing_APIs <-- my notes on places i've used to lookup book info before
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ChrisAldrich Thanks bear, almost sounds like you're in the business...
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bear one of my past lives dealt with this type of data farming and maintenance
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bear lawyers and silos made life miserable
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ChrisAldrich Almost sounds like a new Indieweb /tagline!
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bear I worked for a legal and medical directory publisher who also ran databases for various things
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bear it was a silo itself that loved to scrape data from other silos
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ChrisAldrich ha!
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bear they leaned heavily on the rule that copyright enforcement for a directory is about the presentation - they were known to send a copy of a competitor to an overseas company for manual data entry of the raw data
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on I now proudly own all of the data from my Tumbr posts on my own domain. #Indieweb #ownyourdata #PESOS by Brian Donovan" by Brian Donovan on 2016-08-23 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/20/i-now-proudly-own-all-of-the-data-from-my-tumbr-posts-on-my-own-domain-indieweb-ownyourdata-pesos/#comment-31776
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tantek welcome Lana!
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Lana thank you!