#indieweb 2016-08-25

2016-08-25 UTC
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sknebel aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 1106 karma (424 in this channel)
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sknebel swag++
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Loqi swag has 1 karma
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Launched an #indiewebcamp t-shirt run shipping from the EU! With time to order before Brighton! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp-eu" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/24/9/shirts
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aaronpk i'm gonna tweet that tomorrow
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snarfed ^^ great name for a hipster band
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miklb heh, I looked at the stickers, it's like it doesn't make sense to order 50 when 100 only $10 more :)
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aaronpk miklb: I order them in batches of like 300-500 so I can send you some
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miklb aaronpk OK. I am planning an IW talk at our Barcamp 10/1 which is a bigger tech event here so thought I'd like to be able to hand some out
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@sdepolo You are a top gogetter grrl! Thank u! You'll be my shining example in no time...lets meet next week and implement that indieweb tookl tha... (twitter.com/_/status/768609641039134720)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @chrisaldrich: On my way to Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles in moments. http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-la-2016-08-24 (twitter.com/_/status/768613302989680640)
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ChrisAldrich I just discovered that on noterlive.com, clicking on "change speaker" when the "lookup a twitter handle here" is empty causes the fields to default to Tantek!
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KevinMarks that was my lazy default as tantek usually starts HWC
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[tantek] :wave::skin-tone-2: from Manhattan
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: welcome to Homebrew Website Club SF (twitter.com/_/status/768623799864553473)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: I teach at the Cronkite School of journlaism at Arizona State, and I still write for slate. back channel and so on (twitter.com/_/status/768624975599337472)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: I'm working on a book about how we can keep control of what we write compared to the centralising tendency (twitter.com/_/status/768625110798458880)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: My blog is very simple, but meant to be independent (twitter.com/_/status/768625163978104832)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: when I teahc journlaists, I get them to but a domain, set up their own hosting and create a blog or webiste (twitter.com/_/status/768625299256778752)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: I want them to have the experience of installing the software on a server and setting up their own things (twitter.com/_/status/768625399999922176)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: We normally use reclaim hosting, which is set up by former university popel fro this, and it is $33/year inc domain (twitter.com/_/status/768625621366956032)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: I insist they do something new, whether it is their first site. They often have no idea they can do this (twitter.com/_/status/768625890825740292)
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pl_ LETS FUGG
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dangillmor: Facebook should not be your internet presence. They need to know what is possible (twitter.com/_/status/768626059893932032)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @radernation: I don't have a live website, I have a few urls but nothing there (twitter.com/_/status/768626751438196736)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @radernation: I tries setting up a website for my girlfriend's business idea, I got a theme set up but generating content was hard (twitter.com/_/status/768627053189033984)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @radernation: I've maintained websites, but I haven't built any from scratch (twitter.com/_/status/768627145212063748)
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@terriwonglee Homebrew Website club tonight at @GoDaddy #SanFrancisco office! @kevinmarks is introducing #IndieWeb #ownYourContent https://twitter.com/terriwonglee/status/768627945862639616/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/768627945862639616)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: showing how webmentions work with a very simple post http://www.kevinmarks.com/justanote.html to link to (twitter.com/_/status/768628583967383552)
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GWG Evening
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @terriwonglee: I had a personal website, but the domain expired last week - it was a portfolio for my design work (twitter.com/_/status/768629913955995648)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @terriwonglee: I built it through https://wordpress.org/ and maintained it there, but now I'm going to build it from scratch (twitter.com/_/status/768630053559304192)
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[tantek] Evening GWG. I have arrived.
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GWG [tantek]: Welcome to New York.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @terriwonglee: Now I'm at GoDaddy I should be able to host it here, so I get to do it again (twitter.com/_/status/768630759527747584)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jeremyllewellyn: It's interesting that you both lost content on private sites (twitter.com/_/status/768632075536793600)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @terriwonglee: I do have a copy myself, so I can put it back up again (twitter.com/_/status/768632148152688641)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @jeremyllewellyn: The federated wiki is an interseting idea - you can clone the data locally (twitter.com/_/status/768632334279184384)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: I've torn some things down, but slowly rebuilding. I'm just minutes away from rel-me to be able to log into wiki (twitter.com/_/status/768632850308530176)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @ChrisAldrich: Explaining briefly how @kevinmarks' http://www.noterlive.com/ works for live tweeting events... (twitter.com/_/status/768633562358747136)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: My github was receiving some autodumps from a short-lived indieweb experiment. (twitter.com/_/status/768634288808091648)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: is describing his canopy system used to build his site. (twitter.com/_/status/768635084236853248)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I've been experimenting with content-hashing as a way of finding sites thta have gone away http://svgur.com/dweb (twitter.com/_/status/768635323513446400)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @terriwonglee: would you recommend wordpress or making a static site ? (twitter.com/_/status/768635665936420864)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: Building a site from scratch in real time based on Canopy. Compiling... 2 minutes later - an indieweb site! (twitter.com/_/status/768635700048789504)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: it depends on your goal if you are focused on writing, wordpress is great; working on design then it makes it harder (twitter.com/_/status/768635933059080192)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: Canopy builds in a minute and 52 secs... inside are folders roots and trunk w/ internals (twitter.com/_/status/768636368478150656)
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: Describing how he builds in locations to Canopy (twitter.com/_/status/768640053082021888)
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AhmetMert hello
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GWG Hello, AhmetMert
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AhmetMert hello GWG, I wanted to edit wikipage (https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/Projects_List) and add my name into Remote Participant list. In order to do that I should add rel="me" command to my personal website. I understand this part. However I did not understand how to add a link back to my my homepage using social media accounts""
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GWG Do you have any accounts on any services?
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonights Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-08-24.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/768642163643064320)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Notes from tonights Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-08-24.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-08-25 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-08-24html-indieweb
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AhmetMert I do have a github and google+ account if you are asking this
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bear AhmetMert - have you see the Getting_Started page?
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bear what is getting started
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Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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AhmetMert yes I have seen it. I almost read them all
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bear cool
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bear the http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/ site has info about it also
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bear and finally http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me
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Loqi rel="me"
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AhmetMert I was following the steps in https://indieweb.org/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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AhmetMert I will check them out thank you
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GWG We'll be here
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bear the indiewebify.me link is good because it gives you a way to validate your changes
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@ChrisAldrich #indieweb @angelogladding: Apparently @t has a broken certificate for https, so my parser gracefully falls back to http instead. (twitter.com/_/status/768643531216982017)
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tantek perhaps we need UI screenshots showing how to add a link back to your homepage using social media accounts (e.g. per silo)
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tantek hey AngeloGladding there shouldn't be any public https URLs to my site so where did you encounter that?
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tantek it's not a broken cert, it's a self-signed cert
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bear the example links on that page are url's to the profile edit pages - but nothing showing where to put the rel=me links
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tantek on your own site? or in the profile editor on a silo?
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bear silo
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tantek well it's different per silo, each has its own UI for setting your "website" link
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tantek (better to call it that - your website link - instead of "rel=me link" because nowhere on any silo do you ever put rel=me anywhere)
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bear nodsf
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tantek nice photo HWC London! https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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tantek !tell KevinMarks,ChrisAldrich,aaronpk,gregorlove any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks Doh, forgot to take a photo
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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tantek KevinMarks: two weeks ago?
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KevinMarks And tonight
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KevinMarks I'm used to being the text person while you're the photo taking person
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tantek KevinMarks clearly we need redundant roles ;)
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tantek we should both mentor seconds, like in theater
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Loqi it is probable
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tantek KevinMarks I thought I saw some photos posted to the slack
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[kevinmarks] That was Aaron with t-shirts I think
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[kevinmarks] Oh, there's one of me
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tantek yeah!
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tantek can you grab those somehow and upload?
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[kevinmarks] They're on https://twitter.com/terriwonglee/status/768627945862639616
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@terriwonglee Homebrew Website club tonight at @GoDaddy #SanFrancisco office! @kevinmarks is introducing #IndieWeb #ownYourContent https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqq3Cc-UsAEhHU-.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/768627945862639616)
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[kevinmarks] Easier when I'm or on the phone
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[kevinmarks] s/or/not/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Owning Your Own Content" by David G. Johnson on 2016-01-31 https://medium.com/@thedavidjohnson/owning-your-own-content-b2c383f8fd12?source=rss-860249c14687------2
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Loqi [indieweb] "Chris, as a kind of sidebar to this, we talk about hosting things on our own site. I’ve always kind of thought this should be 1 piece of software we use for everything. I think that way because further down the road when I think about imparting my indieweb knowledge to someone else I could […]" by Scott Kingery on 2016-08-25 http://techlifeweb.com/14892-2/
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KevinMarks Twitter web UI was failing to post, so I used quill+silo.pub instead
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cmal okay I started the personal cloud and home server pages on the wiki
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cmal sorry I disappeared yesterday (ping timeout), the soldering on my laptop charger died and my laptop with it (no battery), so that's another thing I've got to fix :D
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petermolnar backup battery, backup charger, backup laptop - contents of a drawer of mine; one more reason to buy cheap ol' laptops, like the X200 :d
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petermolnar cmal, where is the url? I might be able to add a few things
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cmal what is home server?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/home_server
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cmal what is personal cloud?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/personal_cloud
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cmal petermolnar: T420 here but no backup anything, just some tin and a soldering iron (and coffee) :)
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petermolnar oh, nice, long pages
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petermolnar cmal++
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Loqi cmal has 3 karma (2 in this channel)
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cmal well I tried to stay concise and relevant to Indieweb topics
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cmal (although I'd be tempted to say network autonomy and running our own ISPs is very relevant to Indieweb topics, but I'll get slapped on the fingers again :D)
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cmal (but I was super brief on the topic, as brief as a link to guifi.net and one to ffdn.Org)
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cmal so yeah petermolnar feel free to improve upon ;)
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cmal also there's updating to do on all the "solutions" (for instance, Indie Box has been merged into UBOS)
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petermolnar I added Webmin :)
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petermolnar gosh, that was a long time ago
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cmal for email, a friend of mine started using mailcow like a year ago
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cmal from what I saw of it does the job just fine (postfix/dovecot webgui + RoundCube app)
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cmal anyway I feel like we should move the hardware discussion from personal cloud over to home server
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petermolnar I have a stable setup of mail which I still need to document (update, actually, i have an old entry about it) and I'm not willing to change it for any automated solution
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cmal and just have a "Why" section on personal cloud talking about easy sysadmin
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petermolnar true
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cmal are you doing it already or should I do it?
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cmal (if only wiki were as easy as pads to collaborate upon u_u)
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petermolnar please do it, I need to go back to work now
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cmal sure, good luck with work :)
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cmal what is hostingnotes?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/hostingnotes
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cmal I see there's already a page full of links to different plans, would it make sense for me to move the listings of providers to different sections of this page and keep the talk on web hosting more focused on useful stuff?
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cmal or should we just merge this page into web hosting? (I think that's a lot of noise for web hosting)
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cmal anyway, I'll be off to updating the french-speaking Main Page :)
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sgreger hello indieweb. i am working on my twitter-posse implementation, aiming to tweet bookmarks with two links: the URL of the bookmarked site and the corresponding entry on my own site
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petermolnar hi sgreger
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sgreger twitter cards documentation says that multiple urls in a tweet are handled in order of appearance, but when i try it adds the card for the latter of the two urls (both linked pages set up with twitter cards)
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sgreger trying to reliably tweet bookmarks with the bookmarked page showing up as twitter card, the url to my own site only in the text
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@aaronpk Launched an #indiewebcamp t-shirt run shipping from the EU! With time to order before Brighton! … https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/768824012587741186/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/768824012587741186)
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aaronpk dammit
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 10 minutes ago: any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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aaronpk that should have fit
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[kevinmarks] That is a tricky one. Some people don't include a link to their own post if it wouldn't show more info than the tweet
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aaronpk ah my counter mis-calculated
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[kevinmarks] You want to avoid the twitter card showing everything twice problem.
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aaronpk this is not that
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@aaronpk Launched an #indiewebcamp t-shirt shipping from the EU! With time to order before Brighton! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp-eu https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/768824496492912640/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/768824496492912640)
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aaronpk there we go
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[schmarty] is it cheesy to wear an IWC shirt to an IWC event? asking for a friend who is going to NYC2. (i am that friend.)
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tantek strongly encouraged :)
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tantek I will be doing the same
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tantek also I hope you are ok with people asking you questions :D
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tantek GWG, did you get your IWC shirt?
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GWG tantek: yes
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[schmarty] as long as they are ok with the answer "great question! i don't know!" :}
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[kevinmarks] I was replying to sgreger
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tantek schmarty - very close! "great question! let's check the wiki!" :)
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tantek (but seriously even that will be a lot of help)
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[schmarty] tantek - great point!
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles Notes from 8-24-16" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-25 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/25/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadenalos-angeles-notes-from-8-24-16/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles Notes from 8–24–16" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-08-25 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadena-los-angeles-notes-from-8-24-16-453cfc9796f4?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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Loqi [indieweb] ""Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles Notes from 8–24–16" in Boffo Socko" by ChrisAldrich on 2016-08-25 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadena-los-angeles-notes-from-8-24-16-453cfc9796f4?source=rss-f9e3747f5480------2
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@ChrisAldrich Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles Notes from 8-24-16 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/25/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadenalos-angeles-notes-from-8-24-16/ #Indieweb https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/768827320832450560/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/768827320832450560)
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[kevinmarks] Make an Alexa extension that gets loqi to answer when anyone in the room says "what is x"
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tantek oh boy
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aaronpk haha oh dear
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aaronpk need one of those portable alexas
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Loqi aaronpk: lol
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ChrisAldrich sgreger: There is a lot of thought on your Twitter issue at /Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter
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Loqi ChrisAldrich: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 55 minutes ago: any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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aaronpk would people be interested in another teespring campaign shipping from the US?
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ChrisAldrich aaronpk: On behalf of the LA Camp, I'd say yes, but would leave a pin in it for a bit...
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ChrisAldrich Is there a general consensus on using microformats classes for CSS styling? I've learned from poor experiences with the WordPress universe that one is far better off leaving mf as semantic classes and creating alternate classes for styling.
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aaronpk i've been happy not using microformats classes for styling. a while ago I was, and it caused problems
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tantek yes I think it's even documented somewhere maybe on /WordPress or a subpage
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GWG It is recommended not to do it.
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GWG And while the Core team has agreed it is probably not a good idea, it has gone on too long.
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GWG They did agree at my request to remove styling classic microformats in the TwentySixteen theme
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GWG But they didn't agree to make it a recommended practice for new themes that the repository review team checks for
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aaronpk oh hey that sounds like progress!
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ChrisAldrich GWG: I knew what you were going to say, I was curious if others have run into problems. Primarily I ask because I noticed KevinMarks_ does it on his site and ran into some conflicts with using noterlive output last night.
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ChrisAldrich I was hoping that GWG's hardline stance was a community wide one, or at least something we're all behind if it hasn't come up elsewhere.
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@aaronpk ...and here is another run for people in the US! This time with women's and XL sizes: https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp-us (twitter.com/_/status/768839373550866432)
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cmal changed the image loaded on the HWC section of the main page from Twitter to indieweb.org so the image gets displayed even with tracking protection enabled
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ChrisAldrich tantek: does microformats.org have guidelines about it?
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tantek really should be in the FAQ
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tantek ugh, looks like it needs updating
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tantek I know we documented this somewhere with citations
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tantek I thought since WordPress was the most obvious example of the problems caused by this practice that it would be documented there
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tantek ChrisAldrich: I think it's somewhere on Indieweb.org that mentions wordpress - sorry I don't more specifically. If you can find that, then I can work on updating the microformats.org FAQ etc.
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ChrisAldrich tantek: I think I know where the IW/WP version is, it may need some beefing up, but I'll tweak it and ping you for the update on the other side
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tantek thank you!
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tantek There may also be discussion / answers in IRC logs
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tantek I recall observing that styling microformats classes directly is OK if you're just developing a one-off site that you have no plans of updating
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tantek but that anything else, where you may be updating the markup, presentation etc., you should have separate classes
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ChrisAldrich Or potentially for web-tools that output material (like noterlive) which is then placed on various different platforms...
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ChrisAldrich I ran into an issue when borrowing css and js from KevinMarks.com. I'll try to put together some additional details and resources for noterlive in a PR shortly.
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KevinMarks_ Right, and mine is a one off site
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KevinMarks_ I need to tidy up the hovercard stuff too
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ChrisAldrich KevinMarks_ you should be able to add additional styling classes for others without needing to change your own site. I played around with the hovercards a bit this morning, but ended up settling for good enough.
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ChrisAldrich KevinMarks++ for unmung btw
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Loqi kevinmarks has 246 karma (193 in this channel)
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aaronpk btw GWG tantek did you see I added the ti.to registrations to http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2 along with the count of people who checked "do not show"
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Loqi IndieWebCamp NYC2 2016
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tantek aaronpk++ THANK YOU
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Loqi aaronpk has 1107 karma (425 in this channel)
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tantek the indie rsvp to registration system ratio is much lower for this IWC which makes me think there will be a lot more helping people out and intro discussion sessions
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tantek also I think this is the most people we have ever had sign up for an IWC NYC so that's pretty awesome!!
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miklb spots another WP person on that list
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miklb and by WP person I mean someone who regularly contributes to core WordPress
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tantek ah, core. very cool
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tantek miklb perhaps introduce them and GWG?
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miklb he will be with Aaron Jorbin my guess is, so I trust GWG will meet Eric
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on A New Reading Post-type for Bookmarking and Reading Workflow by Andreas Petersell" by Andreas Petersell on 2016-08-25 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/22/a-new-reading-post-type-for-bookmarking-and-reading-workflow/#comment-31786
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Loqi [indieweb] "By: Andreas Petersell" by Andreas Petersell on 2016-08-25 https://twitter.com/Petersell/status/768748365454700544
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@cmal_PP @wallabagapp Mon petit doigt me dit que ça parle de vous chez #Indieweb suite au rachat de Instapaper : https://indieweb.org/Wallabag ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/768857861803966465)
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tantek !tell GWG looks like the updated IWC NYC2 page has photos for tito registrants http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2#rsvps - could you add those images to https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/Projects_List#Participants_from_Tito ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi IndieWebCamp NYC2 2016
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aaronpk thanks gravatar
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tantek did wordpress acquire .blog somehow?
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miklb yes
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tantek I thought Google had that
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snarfed tantek: google has .dev and a bunch of others
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miklb s/wordperss/automattic/
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aaronpk i'm still mad about .dev
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tantek snarfed I thought google grabbed .blog for blogger
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snarfed maybe they tried, but automattic got it
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aaronpk google bid on it https://icannwiki.com/.blog
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snarfed KevinMarks++ https://write.as/ looks interesting, from a product perspective
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Loqi kevinmarks has 247 karma (194 in this channel)
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aaronpk just realized that XOXO recently switched their website from 2016.xoxofest.com to xoxofest.com/2016
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tantek another good example to capture
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tantek re: subdomains
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, just got a free aws IoT button... now to figure out what I do indieweb-wise with it
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aaronpk also https://xoxofest.com/2016 is a good example of a clean event page with showing a full multi-day schedule
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tantek aaronpk it's also js;dr "Please enable JavaScript to view this site."
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aaronpk aw
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tantek wow like completely. view source
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aaronpk that's just not necessary
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: we have a couple at work, and we're doing a hack week this week, and a couple teams are using them
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tantek so this is what the web is turning into?
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tantek <script src="/assets/application-348aa016d6f7a1308fac6a528753a3074b5fefa78552c943bff28a70e5a7cce1.js" defer="defer"></script>
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tantek <script src="/assets/components-209666cda3674f48f5e3db8cea867c4d92e1c565004257cd56f410357bbdd733.js" defer="defer"></script>
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rascul javascript all the things
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4iyjr55u.jpg
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tantek aaronpk: the entire thing is dynamically built clientside using React
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aaronpk silly
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aaronpk it's such a simple site, there is really no reason for using React
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singpolyma tantek: I think we're past "turning into". "has become"
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tantek singpolyma: no. plenty of the web works just fine for me with NOSCRIPT
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tantek and much faster too
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singpolyma Some of it
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singpolyma I'm always happy when I don't have to enable JS for a site
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aaronpk looks like last year's was regular HTML http://web.archive.org/web/20160526232254/http://2015.xoxofest.com/
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aaronpk same with 2014 http://web.archive.org/web/20160526232245/http://2014.xoxofest.com/
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tantek so why, for the last XOXO, did they bother with breaking it by rewriting it in React?
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sgreger kevinmarks: thanks for your comment. i thought of it as good ux for my twitter readers that they do not have to click through my site to see what i bookmarked. but indeed, this is probably more a design than a technical challenge
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aaronpk ah they consolidated everything into a single website
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aaronpk the 2014 and 2015 pages are built in the same framework now and totally different from the original 2014/2015 pages
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tantek point stands, why rewrite everything
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sgreger chrisaldrich: thank you. from the wiki it seems that the topic of "bookmarks" is mostly seen as another form of note. maybe i'm trying to come up with the wheel all over again ;)
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tantek sgreger, nah, notes are primarily first person content
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aaronpk and then decided to import the previous years into it too
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aaronpk well this is the first time the 2016 schedule has been on the site, so it looks like they built the 2016 page in react from the start
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tantek whereas a /bookmark is a response to something else
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sgreger tantek: that's why i thought it would be smart to present the bookmark to my twitter readers and indicate that there is also commentary/response on my site; like this: https://twitter.com/sebastiangreger/status/768770201135505408
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@sebastiangreger "Solving all the wrong problems": @aarieff on designers solving problems that don't exist http://sebastiangreger.net/bookmark/5013/ https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F07%2F10%2Fopinion%2Fsunday%2Fsolving-all-the-wrong-problems.html%3F_r%3D5&REFUSE_COOKIE_ERROR=SHOW_ERROR (twitter.com/_/status/768770201135505408)
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tantek note also that as people build more js;dr sites in React (a Facebook project), more sites become unlikely to be Google-indexable. Almost seems like a deliberate attempt to increaingly undermine Google Search (vs. "just use Facebook")
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tantek sgreger that's a fine way to POSSE a bookmark to Twitter
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tantek though your post http://sebastiangreger.net/bookmark/5013/ is much more than a bookmark. It's an outright *reply*
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tantek https://indieweb.org/reply
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sgreger yes, design-wise i like it. but it's not easy in a technical sense, as i cannot figure out why it presents the second url in the tweet as a twitter card, not (as both the twitter docs and the indieweb wiki indicate) always the first
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tantek sgreger: "Replies rarely have names/titles, though they sometimes have other structure like multiple paragraphs, or blockquotes from the source that are being specifically responded too. "
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sgreger tantek: now that you say it, that is actually true. hmm, i might have to return to the drawing board on that one.
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tantek that exactly describes your post
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sgreger indeed
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tantek you have multiple paragraphs, which you wrote
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tantek you have blockquotes, that you specifically responded to
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sgreger so a bookmark would purely be the link, and then no backlink to my site needed in twitter syndication
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aaronpk hm who else POSSEs bookmarks to twitter?
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sgreger and in this case, i should only feature the link to my site
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aaronpk now i'm tempted to make a separate twitter account to do the same
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tantek sgreger, more here: https://indieweb.org/bookmark#Similar_Post_Kinds
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tantek aaronpk, adactio already does
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plindner That “Solving all the wrong problems” reminding me of https://ind.ie/ethical-design/ Curious what people here think about Ethical Design?
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tantek plinder, ethics are about principles, IndieWeb has /principles, one of which design before protocols so that seems fairly explicit
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tantek sgreger, and if you want even more reading on distinguishing things like bookmarks, replies, quotations, etc. see: https://indieweb.org/quotation and especially the details in https://indieweb.org/quotation#Instead_use
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snarfed good example dedicated twitter account for bookmarks: https://twitter.com/somebitsLinks
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snarfed (his main account is https://twitter.com/nelson )
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tantek as mentioned: https://twitter.com/adactiolinks
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ChrisAldrich Typically I use bookmarks as objects which I haven't yet read, but find interesting and want to /read_later
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sgreger aaronpk: syndicating bookmarks to twitter feels like such a natural thing to do. but now that i started doing it, it turns out i'm actually already full on in the indiweb-reply business :D
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ChrisAldrich Given that, perhaps I should be using a visual indicator (emoji) on Twitter POSSE copies to indicate that?
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sgreger chrisaldrich: that's my workflow as well. and since today i have a way to publish and syndicate them once i have read them, along with a few comments...
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tantek ChrisAldrich: indeed - feel free to add that to https://indieweb.org/bookmark#Why
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tantek ChrisAldrich: or a separate twitter account entirely
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tantek as has been noted
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ChrisAldrich I always have a feeling that the majority of what people post to twitter is links to material they havne't read, but feel might be useful to their audience...
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tantek hmm no POSSE section there
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tantek ok
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sgreger i won't have time tonight, but will contribute the outcome of my thinking to the wiki at some point as well
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sgreger (if there is an outcome)
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ChrisAldrich I've been rethinking the entire reading & bookmarking workflow I use on my site. Thoughts earlier this week if you're interested sgreger: http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/22/a-new-reading-post-type-for-bookmarking-and-reading-workflow/
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sgreger but back to my original headache: has anybody else experienced that twitter shows the twitter card for the latter of two links posted (which is clearly unexpected behaviour)
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] A New Reading Post-type for Bookmarking and Reading Workflow http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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ChrisAldrich In the past week, I've seen at least three twitter posts with multiple links, and if I recall, it was always the last one that was turned into a twitter card.
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tantek started: https://indieweb.org/bookmark#How_to_POSSE
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tantek sgreger I've always seen Twitter show a /link-preview for the *last* link in a Tweet. never the first. FB shows a /link-preview for the first link in a tweet.
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tantek so you can use that to cause different link previews in each
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tantek sgreger: as documented: https://indieweb.org/link-preview#Twitter
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tantek plindner re: "Solving All the Wrong Problems", the flipside of designers focused solving some (their own) problems, is even worse, designers attempting to solve problems for everyone - almost always results in failure
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tantek as in, they design things that are useless to everyone
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tantek not just themselves
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sgreger tantek: ok! there it is. on http://indieweb.org/twitter#Features it says "(only one, the first)", as it does on https://dev.twitter.com/cards/getting-started under "Multiple URLs in a Tweet"
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tantek plindner more on that here https://indieweb.org/selfdogfood (sgreger you may be interested in that too as a complement to that NYT article)
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tantek sgreger I'll fix that on the wiki
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sgreger here is a tweet from earlier today that shows the card for the first link (i tried to find some benchmarks). could of course be because instragram does not have twittercard metadata, only open graph?
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sgreger https://twitter.com/advcyclingassoc/status/768554649284702208
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@advcyclingassoc #BikeYourPark one month from today! Have you planned your September 24 ride? http://BikeYourParkDay.org/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BJgYDbzgik4/ (twitter.com/_/status/768554649284702208)
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tantek sgreger right
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tantek no reason for IG to bother with twittercard metacrap when Twitter could be using better heuristics
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sgreger so we might derive: if two links with twitter card meta, then the latter, if one has twitter card meta and the other not, then that one.
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tantek sgreger note that NYT article starts with "innovative companies" examples of narrow-design, not designers
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tantek which is a completely different thing/problem (VC funding, hype etc.)
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tantek so it's a logical error to jump from the example of "innovative companies" to then blaming "design, and by extension innovation, as an intrinsically human discipline — albeit one that seems to have lost its way."
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tantek "innovative companies" distractions != "design discipline"
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sgreger tantek: very good points, thanks
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tantek that article itself is a hack by its own definition :P
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ChrisAldrich I kind of like the functionality of using emoji in POSSE posts to indicate post-type. (bookmark example: https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/768874827218169856)
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@ChrisAldrich 🔖 A Trans-disciplinary Review of Network Science | Cesar Hidalgo http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/02/disconnected-fragmented-or-united-a-trans-disciplinary-review-of-network-science/ (twitter.com/_/status/768874827218169856)
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tantek ChrisAldrich: yeah, /jam posts do that too typically
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tantek and /read posts
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sgreger chrisaldrich: great write-up! glad to see other thoughts on that bookmark-publishing workflow
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ChrisAldrich of course, now the problem of supporting all that onmy site...
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tantek ChrisAldrich have you captured those itches?
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tantek "supporting all that on my site..."
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snarfed tantek ChrisAldrich emoji tag was also proposed/tried for plain text person tagging. eg https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/547
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ChrisAldrich tantek, I've got a full blown case of poison ivy... /User:Www.boffosocko.com :)
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tantek hahah ok nicely done :)
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Loqi hahahaha
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ChrisAldrich my problem is that sitting in chat here always makes things exponentially worse...
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sgreger i'll try to sort that workflow-thingy out with myself and might write a similar post once it's in place
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tantek ChrisAldrich: welcome to the club 😂😂😂
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tantek just make sure you eventually get around to eating lunch. or breakfast. ahem
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KevinMarks this is an interesting framing: https://twitter.com/LeaVerou/status/768876079318704129
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@LeaVerou I’m collecting a list of libraries with HTML APIs (= can be used from HTML, 0 JS required), e.g. @prismjs. Any good ones you've come across? (twitter.com/_/status/768876079318704129)
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ChrisAldrich sgreger, I'm also a publisher and do some work in academia, so sometimes my needs are extreme edge cases in this particular area. I'm trying to better abstract out all the parts so that others who are interested can pick and choose from my larger workflow.
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ChrisAldrich tantek: good reminder at 11:30 PST
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tantek and since I didn't see bear post it: https://twitter.com/bcrypt/status/768870285034426368
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@bcrypt upgrade ios now or get wrecked https://blog.lookout.com/blog/2016/08/25/trident-pegasus/ (twitter.com/_/status/768870285034426368)
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bear ha - I was distracted by another security item I was researching
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bear yes, iOS users please upgrade - http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/08/apple-releases-ios-9-3-5-with-an-important-security-update/
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tantek I don't usually, but here goes
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bear this is the reason behind the new version -- https://citizenlab.org/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphone-zero-day-nso-group-uae/
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KevinMarks weird, timestamps are getting 3.5 hours added to them
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KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/timestamps-getting-35-hours-added-in-irc2016-08-25bottom
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] timestamps getting 3.5 hours added in https://indieweb.org/irc/2016-08-25#bottom http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/ac0096f2a244e643e3af9f0f6bc6e938/Screen+Shot+2016-08-25+at+11.29.08+AM.png
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ChrisAldrich KevinMarks I just noticed that on the chat webpage a minute ago, but refreshing seemed to fix the issue
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tantek bear, wow: "To use NSO Group’s zero-click vector, an operator instead sends the same link via a special type of SMS message, like a WAP Push Service Loading (SL) message. A WAP Push SL message causes a phone to automatically open a link in a web browser instance, eliminating the need for a user to click on the link to become infected."
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tantek WAP--
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Loqi wap has -1 karma
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tantek another good reason to go phoneless :P
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bear yea, all kinds of old tech becoming vectors
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tantek WAP Push to a Mifi = do nothing :P
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rascul phoneless is the best
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rascul i got mad and smashed my phone a couple years ago and haven't replaced it
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aaronpk KevinMarks: did those come in while your browser was open?
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aaronpk looks like the streaming messages are always at 16:55...
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aaronpk i need to finish migrating everything to chat.indieweb.org already
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@wallabagapp @cmal_PP https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Wallabag&action=history en effet ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/768881846436368384)
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@cmal_PP @wallabagapp https://chat.indieweb.org/2016-08-24#t1472035965666000 Du coup j'ai creusé après :-P (twitter.com/_/status/768882923101622272)
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GWG Afternoon
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 5 minutes ago: looks like the updated IWC NYC2 page has photos for tito registrants http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2#rsvps - could you add those images to https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/Projects_List#Participants_from_Tito ?
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Gold Morning all. I was just looking over the repo and noted the externals directory. Is there any reason this is checked in to the repo rather than maintained via composer?
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aaronpk Gold: what repo?
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Gold If this has been discussed before linkage to that would be awesome.
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Gold https://github.com/idno/Known/tree/master/external
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aaronpk might want to ask in #knownchat
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cmal ah I was wondering just the same ^^
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Gold cheers.
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Gold Ah! fair point. :)
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aaronpk and i'm pretty sure they have a reason
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Gold I suspect so to. Just wondering what it is.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup Pasadena/Los Angeles Notes from 8-24-16" http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/25/homebrew-website-club-meetup-pasadenalos-angeles-notes-from-8-24-16/
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@ChrisAldrich @Angeli_Richard That's alright, we'll do another one in a couple weeks: https://indieweb.org/events/2016-09-07-homebrew-website-club concrete details shortly. (twitter.com/_/status/768905833706946560)
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@ChrisAldrich @Angeli_Richard We're working up to a much bigger IndieWebCamp in LA in November: https://indieweb.org/2016/LA (twitter.com/_/status/768906261668638720)
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@t Off boat 7 days, have not checked 99+ FB notifications. 11d away broke a habit. #indieweb… http://tantek.com/2016/238/t1/off-boat-not-checked-fb-notifications https://twitter.com/t/status/768929434959089664/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/768929434959089664)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Off boat 7 days, have not checked 99+ FB notifications. 11d away broke a habit. #indieweb Question is, is there a way to deliberately check FB notifications and avoid re-acquiring a dopamine-twitch-check habit? E.g. on a schedule, similar to only checking email twice a day (start and end of work day), methodically process them in clusters, and close the tab when done. Also trying to figure out how this personal datapoint could be used to inform a more independent-empowering/centric IndieWeb notifications design. http://indiewebcamp.com/notifications Previously: tantek.com/2016/230/t1/facebook-emails-99-notifications-but" on 2016-08-25 http://tantek.com/2016/238/t1/off-boat-not-checked-fb-notifications
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tantek Thanks Loqi for somehow grabbing my entire note (except for the photo)
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Loqi you're welcome
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@ChrisAldrich Is #indieweb the answer to this? Blog you idiots! https://medium.com/m/global-identity?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fthehairpin.com%2Fblog-you-idiots-86995e96d5d5 (twitter.com/_/status/768935882900385793)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Is #indieweb the answer to this? Blog you idiots! https://thehairpin.com/blog-you-idiots-86995e96d5d5" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-25 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/is-indieweb-the-answer-to-this-blog-you-idiots-blog-you-idiots-86995e96d5d5
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tantek_ Checking out the space for this weekend's IndieWebCamp NYC!
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tantek looks like we need a VGA to mini DVI adapter but everything else looks good
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tantek !tell GWG I just checked out the Dalberg space, and took some photos. I can probably answer any further questions you have.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek LinkedIn /silo-quit! https://twitter.com/lynncyrin/status/765661049060155394
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@lynncyrin Done ~ Gonna see what http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume is about now https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqAsaf5UAAAkvyk.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/765661049060155394)
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rhiaro I guess it doesn't count as a quit that I just replaced my linkedin profile text with a snarky message and link to /tag/cv on my site?
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Loqi [indieweb] "My Indieweb swag arrived! 👍🎩👕🚀#indieweb" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-08-25 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/my-indieweb-swag-arrived-indieweb
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aaronpk woo!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "#indieweb poll: Would you use (and/or pay for) a service that used image recognition to add tags to your photos you post on your website? • Sign in with Micropub to authorize the app to edit your posts • Enter the URL for your feed of photos (e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/photos) • Click go! Then wait... • When you post a new photo on your site, the app analyzes the photo, then edits it via Micropub and adds tags based on what's in the photo (This would basically be a service that enables automatic tagging similar to Flickr's automatic tagging https://help.yahoo.com/kb/flickr/tag-keywords-flickr-sln7455.html)" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/25/12/poll
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aaronpk wow didn't expect that whole post to come through
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tantek aaronpk - indeed, had a similar surprise earlier
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gRegorLove I added a little posting activity visualization to my site: http://gregorlove.com/2016/08/experimenting-with-a-github-style-posting/
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 20 hours, 6 minutes ago: any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Experimenting with a GitHub-style posting activity visualization. See the boxes at the bottom of this post.
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tantek what is a visualization?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "visualization" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove No HWC photo, alas
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snarfed aaronpk: are you thinking of using google's vision api for that auto tagging service?
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tantek pretty neat visualization gRegorLove
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gRegorLove Thanks. I'll probably make it SVG. Would also like to link them to archive pages (which don't exist yet)