#indieweb 2016-09-02

2016-09-02 UTC
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gRegorLove Maybe could batch subsequent mentions for the same URL (after removing the hash from the URL)
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snarfed mmm clustering
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tantek what is clustering?
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Loqi notifications in the context of the IndieWeb refer to all forms and ways that an independent web site can receive a message indicating something of interest (server notifications), and potentially relay that information (preferably in realtime) to one or more devices used by the owner of that site (client notifications) https://indieweb.org/clustering
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tantek hmm
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aaronpk my first attempt at clustering did not go well, so i'm hesitant to try it again without really thinking it through
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snarfed yup. lots of good background on https://snarfed.org/clustering-notifications and https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-127048277 . doable, and worthwhile, but subtle.
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Clustering notifications
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tantek I think that makes it worthy of its own page
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tantek especially since clustering is not just about notifications!
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tantek e.g. https://indieweb.org/photo_brainstorming#Clustering :)
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aaronpk actually now that i think about it, most of the problems with my existing implementation are more about post type discovery than clustering
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aaronpk s/discovery//
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tantek oh boy, more work
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tantek yet another IndieWebCamp participant had their WordPress site "owned" taken over / hacked / couldn't login etc. This one relatively recent version of WordPress (from no later than December 2015)
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tantek seriously makes me want to warn any new person AWAY from adopting WordPress on their hosting setup
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aaronpk yikes
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tantek seriously, auto-update is obviously not cutting it
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aaronpk yeah at this point i'm basically unwilling to install wordpress on my own server. i'll run it on dreamhost if i have to because they handle sandboxing it and proactively scan it for hacks.
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tantek the person asked me what they should do, any recommendations, and I said to try installing and using Known instead
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tantek and importing posts etc.
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plindner Is Known more secure? Or just a less attractive target?
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aaronpk likely both
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aaronpk where "more secure" means fewer attack vectors
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plindner certainly less surface area to hit.
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tantek yes that
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KevinMarks I just got done manual reinstalling Dan Gillmor's WordPress sites, then staticising 2 of them.
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KevinMarks (this was on dreamhost)
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snarfed KevinMarks++
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Loqi kevinmarks has 249 karma (195 in this channel)
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KevinMarks The auto update to 4.6 didn't work
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@aegibson73 returned to the #indieweb using @withknown. we'll see how it goes this time. (twitter.com/_/status/771517885575340032)
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KevinMarks1 framework << ihttps://medium.com/@tomdale/javascript-frameworks-distribution-channels-for-good-ideas-9f3b95c0e293
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Loqi ok, I added "ihttps://medium.com/@tomdale/javascript-frameworks-distribution-channels-for-good-ideas-9f3b95c0e293" to the "See Also" section of /framework
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KevinMarks1 gah
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GWG I go away for a few minutes and it turns into WordPress problem discussion?
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Loqi [indieweb] "What I'd really like is if it supported micropub… #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-02 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/what-id-really-like-is-if-it-supported-micropub-indieweb
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@kevinmarks What I'd really like is if it supported micropub… #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/771527116156379137)
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@kevinmarks What I'd really like is if it supported micropub… #indieweb https://paul.kinlan.me/navigator.share/ @paul_kinlan (twitter.com/_/status/771527456482144257)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-02.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek kevinmarks++ that's a huge accomplishment. is the result live somewhere we can (perma)link to?
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Loqi kevinmarks has 250 karma (196 in this channel)
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Loqi [indieweb] "This Week in the IndieWeb" on 2016-09-02 https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-02.html
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tantek aaronpk - do you know if the next Friday xoxo indieweb meetup is only for xoxo participants, or is it open in general?
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tantek if it's open in general, could you add it to /events ?
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[shurcool] (The leftmost icon.)
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[shurcool] It's a bell on the landing page that lights up blue whenever I have new notifications. Pretty much like on github.com.
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[shurcool] Here's a little feature I've added to my personal site last night. http://instantshare.virtivia.com:27080/19aufc1hqm9zu.png
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[shurcool] It was fun to implement. :slightly_smiling_face:
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Loqi [indieweb] "A short note about web standards from your friends at Known" by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-10-13 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/a-short-note-about-web-standards-from-your-friends-at
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Loqi [indieweb] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-12-08 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/why-we-built-known
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Loqi [indieweb] "Self-hosted Known 0.8.5 has left the building - with better indieweb, micropub and AMP support." by Ben Werdmuller on 2015-10-13 http://stream.withknown.com/2015/self-hosted-known-085-has-left-the-building---with-better
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KevinMarks Is this TBT by superfeedr?
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KevinMarks1 http://www.kevinmarks.com/ra%C2%B7scul.html
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[shurcool] and tonight I added notifications service support when viewing a list of blog posts/issues. http://instantshare.virtivia.com:27080/a8id2suaen6u.png
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[shurcool] Also pretty minor but a nice touch.
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jboy looks neat, [shurcool]
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[shurcool] Thanks! :)
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voxpelli Anyone compared Web Share API with the indieweb Web Actions? https://paul.kinlan.me/navigator.share/
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cweiske voxpelli, cool. looks similar to what firefox has with its social api
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voxpelli what is webactions?
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Loqi A web action is the interface and user experience of taking a specific discrete action, across the web, from one site to another site or application https://indieweb.org/webactions
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@krisshaffer "Want to build a website but find a blank canvas intimidating?" #DoOO #IndieEdTech #IndieWeb http://umwdtlt.com/clone-this-websiteintroducing-peasy/ (twitter.com/_/status/771691053393014784)
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@kevinmarks @Paul_Kinlan so could you wire it up to https://indieweb.org/webactions (twitter.com/_/status/771694606995955712)
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@kevinmarks Sounds like something to add to https://indieweb.org/database-antipattern https://twitter.com/mipsytipsy/status/771701232465432576 (twitter.com/_/status/771707510080229376)
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cweiske KevinMarks, you can ask the same about how http requests can fail and use that as reasons against the indieweb
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dmaczka greetings all. I'm in the process of indie-webifying a couchDB/sofa-based site, anyone had experience with that?
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dmaczka namely, I'm trying to figure out best practices for auth for posting content via webmentions
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tantek good morning #indieweb!
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tantek !tell adactio,Jeena,KevinMarks do you have a venue confirmed for next week's Homebrew Website Club? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-09-07-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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adactio tantek: Alas, I'm out of the country next Wednesday so no Brighton Homebrew again next week. :-(
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 1 week, 4 days ago: can you confirm a venue for your HWC this week? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Where
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tantek !tell ChrisAldrich could you add a "Travel & Lodging" section to IWC LA similar to https://indieweb.org/2016#Travel_.26_Lodging ? (looking for nearby / recommended hotel suggestions, beach proximity a plus :) )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks1 gillmor gang time
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tantek are you wearing your headphones?
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KevinMarks1 discreet pink ones
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tantek nice
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@edsu a little gem from @auchmill about the art of goodbyes on the Web http://best-of-3.blogspot.com/2016/08/its-time-to-say-goodbye.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/771759846467203072)
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Zegnat KevinMarks1: gillmor gang?
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KevinMarks1 finidhed now
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gRegorLove What is Gillmor Gang?
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Loqi The Gillmor Gang is a weekly podcast hosted by Steve Gillmor who has perennially discussed topics relating to the bleeding edge of web technology as they relate to social media, journalism, and modern life https://indieweb.org/Gillmor_Gang
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gRegorLove Zegnat ^
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snarfed notices that his site isn't automatically sending webmentions :/
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Zegnat And here I was hoping I had something to watch in between Gilmore Girls episodes, gRegorLove ;)
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gRegorLove Haha
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Loqi rofl
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gRegorLove Yeah, those new GG episodes are going to be dark, what with Rory joining a gang.
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-02.html
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Zegnat gRegorLove: I would watch that.
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snarfed any WP people know why the webmention plugin might stop sending outbound wms? i think they stopped on my site a while ago. :/ i was on plugin v2.6.0, now on 3.0.0 (head of pfefferle's repo), but still no luck
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snarfed cc GWG
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snarfed enabled debug logging but nothing relevant there
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 2pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-02.html
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dmaczka when sending webmentions, should the client follow 302 redirects and use the redirected source url, or original?
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snarfed dmaczka: redirected, http://indieweb.org/webmention-spec#Webmention_Verification
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: dmaczka is asking about sending not receiving
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dmaczka snarfed, thanks, KartikPrabhu yes, and I meant target, not source.
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snarfed ah, target
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dmaczka i.e. say I write a blog post and link to a shortened url t.co/whatever, when I send a webmention, should the target=t.co/whatever or follow the 302?
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dmaczka and snarfed the receiving specs helps because that lets me know whether the receiver will be expected to validate shortened urls or not
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tantek now that it's after Friday 14:00, hey aaronpk I have an idea for enhancing "New Wiki Pages" in /this-week
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tantek as well as pages being created, if a page goes from just a one line #redirect to having more than one line of content, it's essentially a New Page
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snarfed dmaczka: re sending, the spec may not address that. targets are often assumed to be post-redirect
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tantek wondering how hard that would be to detect, edits from redirect to non-redirect
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snarfed http://webmention.net/draft/#sender-discovers-receiver-webmention-endpoint doesn't mention following redirects
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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sknebel the target has to be as is appears in the source document, otherwise the verifier can't easily find it
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dmaczka if the sender is expected to follow redirects, that makes the receiver varification a bit easier, i.e. receiver can immediately reject hostnames it does not control
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dmaczka sknebel, oh, that does make sense
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snarfed oh wait, i lied, that spec section does say the sender follows target redirectss
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tantek invites snarfed to #indieweb-dev
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snarfed demurs
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sknebel dmaczka: see here for the logic behind it: http://indieweb.org/Webmention-faq#Why_is_the_target_URL_a_required_parameter
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tantek !tell aaronpk how hard would it be for /this-week "New Wiki Pages" to include pages that transitioned from redirect->"actual content"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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dmaczka sknebel, yeah, that does make sense... so I guess on the receiving end, the receiver can really only syncronously reject on schemes, not hostname?
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-02.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/771818746411298820/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/771818746411298820)
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sknebel dmaczka: depends on how much work you are willing to do syncronously, but if you don't want to make HTTP calls there yes
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dmaczka I guess the part of the spec I'm wondering about is "The receiver SHOULD check that target is a valid resource for which it can accept Webmentions. This check SHOULD happen synchronously to reject invalid Webmentions before more in-depth verification begins."
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dmaczka it would seem, if the purpose of doing async verification is to limit DoS attacks, we'd want to avoid HTTP requests in the synchronous phase, no?
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sknebel seems logical, yes.
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tantek dmaczka, sknebel, while very much on-indieweb-topic, details about Webmention and HTTP requests are probably better suited (and more focused) for #indieweb-dev
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dmaczka tantek, ok
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aaronpk hmm
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 8 minutes ago: how hard would it be for /this-week "New Wiki Pages" to include pages that transitioned from redirect->"actual content"
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aaronpk that's definitely a pretty big extra step in processing, because i'd have to go fetch each page on the recent changes list and also fetch its revision history
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tantek aaronpk, ok. we can file that under potentially useful but too much work for now
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KevinMarks1 any recommendations for nginx static hosting?
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bear where to put small servers that do nothing but nginx static ?
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KevinMarks A vps that will host static files with nginx and can be paid by Bitcoin
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 58 minutes ago: do you have a venue confirmed for next week's Homebrew Website Club? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-09-07-homebrew-website-club#Where
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KevinMarks Non us preferred
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bear hmm, bitcoin is a new wrinkle for me
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bear caveat that i've never used any of these: http://cryptorials.io/bitcoin-shared-web-hosting-comparison/
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Loqi Bitcoin Web Hosting Comparison: Shared Servers
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bear and also https://tomatohunter.com/
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