#indieweb 2016-09-06

2016-09-06 UTC
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@t @georgebrock sorry to miss you @IndieWebCamp NYC! Ping @dshanske @EmmaGHodge, restart HWC NYC! https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club%23New_York_City (ttk.me t4j93) (twitter.com/_/status/772911436456538112)
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@t @paulrobertlloyd looking forward to seeing you @IndieWebCamp! @jgarber @Cennydd sorry to miss you! (ttk.me t4j92) (twitter.com/_/status/772903977952292864)
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@web_DEVE__Lop #webdevelopment going to IndieWebCamp Brighton 2016-09-24…25! Register! https://ti.to/clearleft/indie-web-camp-brighton-2016 Wiki: https://t.co/01x7DBcQ81 (ttk.me t4… (twitter.com/_/status/772856285050068998)
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aaronpk backfilling search
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 56 minutes ago: what do you think of setting up http://2016.indieweb.org/LA for IWC LA? for ticketing, indie RSVP etc.
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@t going to IndieWebCamp Brighton 2016-09-24…25! Register! https://t.co/apOyq7im9O Wiki: https://indieweb.org/2016/Brighton (ttk.me t4j91) (twitter.com/_/status/772854502793764864)
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@sl007 @martijnvdven #indiewebcamp #brighton Do you go from AMS [easyjet to LGW] ? Stansted seems to be "wrong direction" … (twitter.com/_/status/772796257668595712)
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@electronic_eqpt #Adafruit The #IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the "corporate web". Read Blog: https://t.co/LprWAb7K1M (twitter.com/_/status/772750361652101120)
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@fourtonfish How do you implement sharing buttons on your websites? #indieweb #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/772658769033629697)
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aaronpk i apparently broke it yesterday
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@fourtonfish I just updated http://simplesharingbuttons.com and I'd love to hear from the #indieweb #openweb folks: (twitter.com/_/status/772658658807312384)
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tantek oh hey welcome back loqi :)
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KevinMarks1 so new feature on kevinmarks.com
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GWG Yes?
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KevinMarks1 it checks rel-me verification dynamically with indiewebify.me
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KevinMarks1 those yellow question marks become green checkmarks
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KevinMarks1 well most of them, it doesn't like flickr
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GWG My new webmention endpoint is coming along nicely.
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GWG It needs a lot of strengthening.
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KevinMarks1 ah, no it's accurate, flickr doesn't have that link
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KevinMarks1 here's the code: http://www.kevinmarks.com/verify.js
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KevinMarks1 (it's jquery flavoured because I hacked it from indeiwebify.me)
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@malcolmblaney @fourtonfish we use webactions: http://indieweb.org/webactions (twitter.com/_/status/772975421784592384)
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KevinMarks1 so, that tool was worth it - I fixed my flickr rel-me
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KevinMarks1 weird how google plus is alway last to turn green
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KevinMarks1 anybody else want to try it?
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KevinMarks1 I tried it on Christopher Allen's site adn that still is borked
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KevinMarks1 I am tempted to make this a browser plugin, but that might be a bit rough on indiewebify
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club SF 2016-09-07" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-06 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-sf-2016-09-07
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GWG snarfed: Saw your response.
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snarfed ok!
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GWG snarfed: I was experiencing similar issues, with the cron job not running. Got the same advice. Still had the same problem.
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snarfed yup, i remember. you said you never fixed it. :/
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GWG Well, it is partly why I changed it.
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GWG The Webmention Plugin uses _mentionme
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snarfed wow, cool. anyone on FB, open your news feed, open up browser tools DOM inspector, and check out the alt text for a few photos that people uploaded to FB
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GWG Pingbacks used _pingme
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snarfed they're running automatic object recognition on all photos. intense.
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GWG I switched to using _pingme.
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gRegorLove Does webmention.rocks have a test for loopback?
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gRegorLove Though not sure how that'd work, heh.
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GWG What do you mean by loopback in this case?
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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gRegorLove GWG: localhost or loopback IP address (127.0.0.0/8)
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GWG Okay, I thought you might be speaking figuratively.
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gRegorLove I didn't fully think it through before asking. webmention.rocks can't test that.
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gRegorLove I'll just set up a page that links to some bogus endpoints and test with that.
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gRegorLove Morning, Zegnat
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Zegnat Can webmention.rocks test itself?
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GWG I assume that aaronpk used standard unit tests for that
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KevinMarks_ Doesn't indiewebify.me have some sending like that?
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Zegnat indiewebify.me can also send for https://webmention.rocks
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Zegnat "Successfully sent 9 webmentions/pingbacks from https://webmention.rocks/" which I guess means they sent it to webmention.rocks as well..?
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KevinMarks_ I run mention tech locally, the it can fetch from localhost on another port
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Zegnat KevinMarks_, I like your little verify script. Is it OK to steal your idea of turning it into a browser extension?
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voxpelli gRegorLove: look into https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger – would love for more tests to be added there
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KevinMarks_ If you want to do it, it saves me from writing it. Though if it gets popular, we may need to add caching on indiewebify.me
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voxpelli Zegnat: using the cross-browser Extension API? https://developer.chrome.com/extensions
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KevinMarks_ I suppose you could do the fetching and parsing client side
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KevinMarks_ Voxpelli is that what the fragmentions one used?
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Zegnat voxpelli: yes, I want to test doing a WebExtensions based extension packaged for Opera, Chrome and Firefox.
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Zegnat I also hear Edge is implementing WebExtensions, so that will be sweet.
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KevinMarks_ Anyone doing it on mobile?
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Zegnat KevinMarks_: I was planning to try and write the extension so it would do all the checking internally, no dependency on Indiewebify. Will see how that goes.
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Zegnat Indiewebify source is on GitHub, so I should be able to replicate its checks.
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Zegnat Re mobile: Firefox for Android supports some of the WebExtensions API, yes.
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KevinMarks_ Neat
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Zegnat Though I think they have left out all UI based APIs, so you can't add buttons.
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KevinMarks_ But can you add checkmarks?
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Zegnat http://arewewebextensionsyet.com/ is a handy cheatsheet
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Zegnat I think DOM manipulation should be available even on the Firefox for Android side. But I haven't tried yet.
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KevinMarks_ I like the idea of it showing ticks or crosses by the links in profiles on twitter
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cweiske I have a bookmarklet that displays webmention/linkback status for my blog http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-03-25%20stapibas%20linkback%20info.png
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KevinMarks_ pours one out for the social graph api that dealt with chained rel-me
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voxpelli reminds me a bit of this old extension I created when the Social Graph API was still around: https://techwhack.co/othermes/ (And later ported to my own Social Graph API clone)
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voxpelli (especially as my "Social Graph API" is more of an "Identity Graph API" as that limits the scope of the crawling pretty extensively)
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KevinMarks_ Rel-me is core, but crawling following would be good too, especially when we need vouch
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KevinMarks_ Nice, voxpelli
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voxpelli I did experiment with crawling a few steps of followings as well, trying to limit the distance from the queried identity to avoid having to crawl the entire net
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voxpelli (hardest part is to come up with a good recrawl mechanism – that's where I got stuck, I recrawled everything once a day and that's too slow for sites in development and too much for stable sites)
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KevinMarks_ Right, Brad being able to piggyback on Google crawl did make it easier
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KevinMarks_ Maybe combined with push and webmention to gauge update frequency?
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KevinMarks_ That was the Technorati trick - when the blog published a post, recheck the other links
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Zegnat "showing ticks or crosses by the links" - like all those weird anti-virus link checker extensions?
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KevinMarks_ I was referring to my ugly design
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KevinMarks_ Clearly we should find someone with actual skill to make verified and unverified icons
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Zegnat The idea reminded me of the WOT extension, they added versions of their own logo (circle) in different colour gradations between green and red behind links: https://www.mywot.com/sites/all/themes/wot/images/wot-flex/how-2.png
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Zegnat It feels doable, but no promises. It would be my first extension in a while. Sounds like a nice evening project though.
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Zegnat voxpelli, do you have a JS-based rel-me parser?
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KevinMarks_ I have a jQuery one
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KevinMarks_ var results = $('a[rel~="me"]');
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KevinMarks_ Or var results = document.querySelectorAll('a[rel~="me"]');
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KevinMarks_ Oh, you mean in non-current dom, in html you downloaded as text?
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voxpelli Zegnat: https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-shiv is the same that I use in Node.js, but for the browser
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voxpelli it parses rels in addition to mf2
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KevinMarks_ Parsing just rels should be easier.
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@pfefferle da die frage aufkam: hier der artikel von @diplix zu reclaim und @indiewebcamp https://t.co/a4p6zFjUq9 #wcfra #indiewordpress (twitter.com/_/status/773061834576453632)
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Zegnat I should not need mf2 for doing the rel checks, right?
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Zegnat KevinMarks_, I don't think I can use DOM parsing on the pages I retreive. But maybe the WebExtensions API will surprise me ;)
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voxpelli Zegnat: it has some useful stuff in it: https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-shiv/blob/95823d631d1a015d29da13c0843d5bae8c48d485/lib/domparser.js
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Zegnat I'll be checking that out after work, thanks voxpelli!
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Zegnat should find a job that lets him play with IndieWeb tech more
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@rifa Top 5 events this month: @progressbar__ @IndieWebCampUK @totallyradio @CodebarBrighton @SheSaysBrighton #BDF16 @DigitalBrighton (twitter.com/_/status/773073361568137216)
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@rifa Top 5 events this month: @progressbar__ @IndieWebCampUK @totallyradio @CodebarBrighton @SheSaysBrighton #BDF16 @DigitalBrighton (twitter.com/_/status/773073361568137216)
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Zegnet Looks like I should not have left ZNC just yet :(
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@kevinmarks @sdepolo @GoDaddy @wptavern how about installing the indieweb plugins and a friendly theme by default? (twitter.com/_/status/773154009326628864)
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@kevinmarks @sdepolo @GoDaddy @wptavern how about installing the indieweb plugins and a friendly theme by default? (twitter.com/_/status/773154009326628864)
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@garrettc Hotel booked for @indiewebcamp Brighton at the end of the month. Looking forward to it https://adactio.com/journal/10950 (twitter.com/_/status/773161868051480576)
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KevinMarks_ So, did anyone else try my rel-me verifier?
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Zegnat Loqi? +v?
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Zegnat Thank you Loqi!
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KevinMarks_ Any luck zegnat?
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Zegnat I just got home and rebooted my lounge service to get IRC linked up again. Lets see if it randomly fails again or if it was a one-off
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Zegnat Now off for groceries, and then I think I might start on the browser extension
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KevinMarks so who's in SF tomorrow night? I know tantek is in potland. Ben, Kyle? http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-sf-2016-09-07
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club SF 2016-09-07
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Zegnat KevinMarks, I am guessingyou will not be at IWC Brighton?
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miklb lol potland is a funny typo for portland
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aaronpk o.O
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Representing Indieweb at DrupalCampLA by _isi_bln_" by _isi_bln_ on 2016-09-06 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/27/representing-indieweb-at-drupalcampla/#comment-32007
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on My Indieweb swag arrived! by lizhkelly" by lizhkelly on 2016-09-06 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/25/my-indieweb-swag-arrived/#comment-32026
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Representing Indieweb at DrupalCampLA by melissanoelg" by melissanoelg on 2016-09-06 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/27/representing-indieweb-at-drupalcampla/#comment-32006
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KevinMarks I won't, but my son may well be
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KevinMarks unless someone will cover my expenses getting there
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@web_DEVE__Lop #webdevelopment Hotel booked for indiewebcamp Brighton at the end of the month. Looking forward to it https://adactio.com/journal/10950 — Garrett … (twitter.com/_/status/773198657625743361)
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Zegnat KevinMarks, would you expect the extension to check every [rel="me"] link on every page you visit automatically, or wait for the user to press a button in the browser UI?
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Zegnat Hello tantek
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KevinMarks_ Hm. Making it optional is a good idea. Press a button to start with. I do like the background idea, but it would potentially cause a lot of traffic, especially on my g+ page ;)
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tantek hello Zegnat!
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Zegnat The only problem, KevinMarks_, is that Fx for Android does not currently support add-ons that require browser UI :(
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Zegnat But mobile is also where you are least likely to want it to auto-check everything
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KevinMarks_ Yes, quite
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@davidmead Thanks @xiffy for getting my Last.FM “loved” tracks onto my blog. http://djm.click/blog/b/2BH #silo #RSS #indieweb (https://t.co/z3vUnkSW3o) (twitter.com/_/status/773206122350149632)
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aaronpk oh gosh https://quilljs.com/
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Zegnat That is going to cause some confusion, I am sure
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KevinMarks hm, how about svg check marks? http://svgur.com/s/9p http://svgur.com/s/AE
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Loqi verified tick http://svgur.com/i/9p.svg
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Zegnat There are also just ✅ and ❎
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voxpelli aaronpk: just used that wysiwyg library for a thing at work, pretty neat :)
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voxpelli Seems like Vox Media and the like use it as well, so maybe their famous Chorus is even using it
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KevinMarks_ I don't get a green background on ✅✔️ on android ☑
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KevinMarks also ❎ is green on mac and red on android, ❌ is red on mac
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KevinMarks and orange on android
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KevinMarks which is why I picked ✔✖ to begin with as they are styleable (for now)
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KevinMarks the idea of svg is you can just use :after with <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width=".9em" viewbox="0 0 40 40"><circle cx="20" cy="20" r="18" fill="darkred" stroke="red" stroke-width="3"/><path d="M 10,10 30,30 M 10,30 30,10" fill="none" stroke="white" stroke-width="6"/></svg>
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KevinMarks or just append to the innerHtml of the link then you don't then need css to go with the code
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Zegnat I am not sure :after would work very well, as it is extremely dependable on the page's own css. Much more so than just adding an IMG
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KevinMarks after doesn't work with html, so I was wrong
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tantek wonders if CSS/SVG hackery belongs here or in #indieweb-dev
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tantek thoughts?
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KevinMarks tantek - go to kevinmarks.com with js on
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/verify.js just updated to not require CSS
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tantek isn't that backwards?
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KevinMarks it needs to execute code to work; having to include css as well is overhead
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snarfed voxpelli Zegnat KevinMarks: re crawling for indie use cases, consider http://commoncrawl.org/
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Zegnat I wasn't planning to crawl
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snarfed Zegnat: ok! they're just useful because they do it so you don't have to
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snarfed tantek: for consistency i'd vote css/svg in dev, but i don't feel strongly
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tantek snarfed, I'm leaning that way too
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tantek others?
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aaronpk same
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voxpelli snarfed: it's cool, been keeping my eye on that one for a long time, though it's more for science and prototyping than real world applications
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voxpelli As they only release like monthly snapshots or something rather than recrawling frequently
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snarfed true!
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voxpelli For indie-stats it would be epic ;)
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snarfed yes!
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snarfed cc bear
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bear ?
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tantek ok that's enough consensus I think to make it explicit for CSS/SVG code discussion -> #indieweb-dev
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tantek !tell gRegorLove time for October HWC event pages? I have venue resereved for HWC SF in October!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed bear: http://commoncrawl.org/ + indie-stats. just idle thoughts.
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bear do you mean for me to send my crawl data to them or for indiestats to be like them?
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snarfed maybe use their data?
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gRegorLove Sounds good to me. I just made some tweaks to URLs and text on recent HWC pages, so should be ready to duplicate.
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snarfed we don't have a specific proposal or idea, they just seem complementary maybe
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snarfed feel free to ignore :P
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bear ah - they store WARC format - yea, I could pull down a snapshot and see what indieweb folks are in it
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snarfed shudders to imagine the size
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tantek what is WARC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WARC" yet. Would you like to create it?
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bear WARC is a web archive (Web ARChive) format designed to collect all of the resources that make up a web page into a single item that does not require any external references when opened
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks jQuery free version of the verify script: http://www.kevinmarks.com/verifynojq.js
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KevinMarks put <script src="verifynojq.js"></script> at the bottom of your page to get checkmarks
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KevinMarks er
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KevinMarks <script src="http://www.kevinmarks.com/verifynojq.js"></script>
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KevinMarks ah, is this the indiewebify.me issue with twitter? http://indiewebify.me/rel-me-links/?url1=http%3A%2F%2Fknown.kevinmarks.com%2F&url2=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkevinmarks gives
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KevinMarks 'Inbound rel-me URL redirects insecurelyArray ( [0] => https://twitter.com/kevinmarks )'
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aaronpk can you link to the https twitter URL instead?
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KevinMarks when I do that I get false back
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aaronpk your twitter links to kevinmarks.com, not known.kevinmarks.com
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aaronpk so that is correct
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KevinMarks ah right. the link in the bio doesn't get a rel-me
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KevinMarks OK
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KevinMarks so http://known.kevinmarks.com/ shows an X for twitter
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KevinMarks (brid.gy is more forgiving)
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KevinMarks hope I'm not stressing indiewebify.me too much with this. Who can see its load?
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aaronpk it's on my google app engine account
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-09-06-12-33-22.png
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KevinMarks if I did make this a browser plugin, adding caching to it could be a good idea
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KevinMarks though i suppose I could make my own endpoint with caching for that
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KevinMarks anyway, known.kevinmarks.com epeus.blogspot.com and kevinmarks.com all have dynamic rel-me verification now
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Zegnat I got a bit distracted by life, but you should get an extension to test tomorrow, KevinMarks
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gRegorLove voxpelli: I don't run Node so not sure I can help with webmention test pinger. What I was wanting to test for is when I send webmentions, that the endpoint I'm sending to is not a loopback. Sounds like testpinger is for incoming webmentions?
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KevinMarks great, Zegnat - if you want to use my svg icons you're very welcome
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voxpelli gRegorLove: there's a test endpoint project as well that one can run locally and they're both standalone and can be used with apps of any language
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@sdepolo Roll your own website: Join us for #indieWeb Homebrew Website Club in #SanFrancisco tomorrow 09-07 https://www.facebook.com/events/1222619177782493/ (twitter.com/_/status/773247878177386496)
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KevinMarks this is motivating me to add rel="me" links
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KevinMarks this is motivating me to add rel="me" links
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KevinMarks https://quitter.no/notice/2230273
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Zegnat KevinMarks, I almost need to scroll down 3 times the height of my mobile screen to get to your note on quitter
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KartikPrabhu and I can not even scroll on my laptop.
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KartikPrabhu scroll-jacking--
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Loqi scroll-jacking has -1 karma
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tantek KevinMarks I can't read your note on quitter because js;dr :P
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bear grrr - I loathe with the burning fire of a thousand suns the sites that prevent me from using the down arrow to scroll
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tantek checks his site
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bear yours is good :)
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tantek phew
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Zegnat bear, I have had sites stop me from using spacebar to scroll as well. Now that one I find infuriating.
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bear the main text area gets the cursor by default so I can use arrows + pg[up|dn]
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tantek notes that he does use left/right arrow for prev/next post
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Zegnat Can I thank you for mapping j/k to prev/next, tantek? I love that.
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tantek Zegnat yes! I vaguely remember it being a feature request a few years ago and I was like sure why not
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KevinMarks_ I thought quitter had html fallback in classic gnu social
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KevinMarks_ Maybe it depends on the site
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tantek yep
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tantek or it's display:noned
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KevinMarks_ I'll write a proper post on this rel-me stuff
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Zegnat I am off for bed. I really like this rel-me-checker idea KevinMarks_. It warrants some work! But alas, tomorrow.
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/no/status/773252019096215552
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@no @kevinmarks @sdepolo Kevin, I think I saw that you’ll be in PDX this weekend. Let’s talk there? (twitter.com/_/status/773252019096215552)
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KevinMarks_ Invite him to Homebrew Website Club and xoxo meetup?
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aaronpk totally!
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@kevinmarks @no @sdepolo I'm not going to be at xoxo, but there’s a Homebrew Website Club there tomorrow and an indieweb meetup on Friday in Portland (twitter.com/_/status/773261245289861121)
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@kevinmarks @no @sdepolo I'm not going to be at xoxo, but there’s a Homebrew Website Club there tomorrow and an indieweb meetup on Friday in Portland (twitter.com/_/status/773261245289861121)
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KevinMarks_ Related https://ahmadawais.com/godaddy-managewp-acquisition-wpdrama/
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tantek aaronpk, any FB POSSE event for HWC PDX?
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aaronpk hmm nope
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aaronpk i can post one right now
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tantek woot!
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Loqi 😊
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aaronpk weird! I had to click "interested" before it let me click "going"
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aaronpk https://www.facebook.com/events/1660054967643391/
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KevinMarks_ Yes, I had that too. I think it defaults you to interested for your own event
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KevinMarks_ Tantek, can you share the fb event for sf?
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tantek checks to see if he implemented RSVP no
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tantek hmm, my Falcon UI should link to the docs on indieweb.org
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tantek let's see if that still works
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tantek aaronpk - your generic OGP makes FB link-preview of your permalinks look like spamming
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tantek see https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10102522268385733
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aaronpk i thought i disabled those
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tantek compare to the better result of what Known does: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10102522259503533
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aaronpk yea there's no ogp tags on my site
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tantek aaronpk - let me know when you've fixed and I can update the share attachment
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tantek well it's getting it from somewhere!
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aaronpk uhh
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aaronpk no idea
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tantek well this is wrong for the permalink: <title>Aaron Parecki</title>
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aaronpk yeah that's a different problem
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tantek it's part of the same problem
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tantek since that's showing up in the top of the link preview
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tantek instead of "Homebrew Website Club"
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aaronpk not sure how it decided my bio was the main thing on the page
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aaronpk maybe cause it's the largest block of paragraph text?
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tantek possibly the <footer> tag
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tantek anyway - worth experimenting with
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aaronpk you'd think the <footer> tag would tell it to deprioritize that content
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gRegorLove voxpelli: Where is the endpoint thing? I'm looking at https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
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bear mourns the loss of the S in SGML when HTML was spawned
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cweiske github switched to two-color emojis for reactions
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tantek bear, the "S" never really was more than in name, (open test suites, interop etc.) hence why HTML parsers started sloppy, then got codified in HTML5.
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bear I was foiled by my own urge to be snarky in my response - only after posting did I remember that S in SGML is for Standard and not Semantic
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KevinMarks following that rule that thinsg that call themselves 'Standard' or 'Simple' are protesting too much
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bear :)
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aaronpk tantek: okay i fixed the <title> tag on my posts that have a mf2 "name" property
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aaronpk it will take a lot of work to come up with something for the title tags that makes sense for other posts
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tantek aaronpk - better: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10102522268385733
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tantek (I refreshed the share attachement)
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aaronpk i think i'm going to have to *add* og tags in order for that to look better now
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tantek drat that's annoying
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aaronpk FB might pick up a <meta> description tag too which is another option
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gRegorLove Yeah, FB picks up meta description
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gRegorLove There's a debugger linked on /OGP I think
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aaronpk this falls under my "provide a plaintext summary for every kind of post" ticket
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aaronpk cause then i'd actually have something to put in the meta description or og tag
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KevinMarks ah. rel-me problem for my blog sidebar - the rel-me is not from the homepage in that case
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KevinMarks so I get X http://epeus.blogspot.com/2015/11/not-in-our-stars.html
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tantek just noticed aaronpk's two search boxes on permalinks e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/2016/09/07/1/hwc (top and bottom)
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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tantek but no "submit your comment URL here" box!
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tantek goes to mention.tech
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tantek hmm
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tantek finds http://mention-tech.appspot.com/webmention
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tantek good afternoon #indieweb!
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GWG tantek: Greetings.
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GWG I miss the good old days when I had a 386SX/16 and could tell what the speed was
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Loqi misses the good old days when I had a 386SX/16 and could tell what the speed was too
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GWG Oh, well.
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GWG I should get back to Webmentions, I guess
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Loqi yea