#indieweb 2016-09-13

2016-09-13 UTC
#
@BobJonkman Now @Andrew_Sullivan_Cant shows off #Indieweb starting with #microformats (twitter.com/_/status/775484638085001216)
doesntgolf and wolftune joined the channel
#
@kwlug That's @andrew_s_cant showing off #Indieweb and #Microformats, of course https://twitter.com/BobJonkman/status/775484638085001216 (twitter.com/_/status/775486885405814784)
#
@kwlug The #microformats h-events and h-feeds @andrew_s_cant shows link back to the @WatCamp calendar demonstration - WatCamp could be #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/775488078412713984)
#
@kwlug That's @andrew_s_cant showing off #Indieweb and #Microformats, of course (twitter.com/_/status/775488301000044544)
#
@kwlug The #microformats h-events and h-feeds @andrew_s_cant shows link back to the @WatCamp calendar demonstration - WatCamp could be #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/775488470072627200)
pindonga joined the channel
#
@kwlug Look to https://t.co/TrCZcdPMn5 for lots of information on #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/775491198790332417)
snarfed joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what is SGML?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SGML" yet. Would you like to create it?
snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
#
rascul eww sgml
tantek joined the channel
#
GWG Was just looking at IWC LA.
#
GWG I need some local advice on this.
#
GWG I need an Angelino to give me advice.
tantek joined the channel
#
rascul i'll give you a vice
#
GWG rascul, I have one... pudding.
#
rascul oh, i meant this kind of vice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vise
#
rascul but whatever works, i guess
#
rascul probably i didn't spell it properly
KevinMarks_, ehlovader, tbbrown, AngeloGladding, KevinMarks and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
@smc90 3. I cut the cords years ago. But cutting the cords is relative and medium misleading -- what big studios:TV::Netflix:indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/775570621140905984)
goodoo and AndChat|566325 joined the channel
#
Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
#
KevinMarks__ Morning zegnat
cweiske joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ I have someone looking for help with a WordPress dev project for a client, anyone interested?
aliusd, Pierre-O, goodoo and loicm_ joined the channel
#
Zegnat KevinMarks__: sorry, I steer very much clear of WordPress these days
#
Zegnat I wonder how I should do redirect resolving in my rel-me-check extension the optimal way. Any ideas, KevinMarks__?
#
KevinMarks__ This is probably for - dev
#
Zegnat true
friedcell, cmal, pindonga and rakaar joined the channel
#
GWG Morning
#
cweiske hiho
#
Loqi *yawn*
#
GWG Cweiske, hiho? For it is off to work I go?
#
cweiske hiho is my way to say hello
#
cweiske nothing more
#
GWG I continue to ask myself what a Webmention Receiver needs.
#
cweiske someone lately said that they would be using micropub to post comments
#
cweiske this would allow a complete separate webmention receiver with in-built moderation and spam filtering
#
GWG I am going to try Micropub post Webmention
friedcell, nitot, Pierre-O, frzn and snarfed joined the channel
#
cweiske !tell tantek - what do you think about https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/48 ?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
ben_thatmustbeme tries to avoid naming arguements, you go down a rabbit hole
#
cweiske I had to add a mapping in my code for "photo", while audio and video work without mapping - you can just use the file's mime type's media string
#
ben_thatmustbeme changing that would break every implementation :/
#
ben_thatmustbeme isn't that just a matter of 1 or 2 lines of code though
#
cweiske that's what you get from implementing a LIVING SPEC
#
aaronpk this seems like a trivial implementation detail
#
cweiske why did I hope that history would be taken into consideration here?
#
aaronpk history? that's exactly the point of "would break every implementation"
#
cweiske history before 2 years ago
#
ben_thatmustbeme living specs usually give a long lead time of changes. i'm not saying it won't change eventually, but its sort of the wrong venue for that argument i would think
#
aaronpk h-entry was created more than 2 years ago
#
aaronpk all i'm saying is it's an h-entry issue, not a micropub issue
#
cweiske that's why I asked tantek. but he'll be of course on your side
#
aaronpk you can open an issue there https://github.com/microformats/h-entry
#
aaronpk (that is linked from http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry)
#
Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
#
ben_thatmustbeme also there is #microformats on IRC as well.
#
cweiske MIME's "image" media type is from 1992; https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1341
#
aaronpk I do not know the history of how h-entry ended up with "photo" but it's a #microformats issue
#
aaronpk believe me, I would be just as happy as you to have h-entry be using "image" instead of "photo" but that's not something I can just flip the switch on
#
ben_thatmustbeme actually audio is only proposed right now, and video and photo are draft properties
#
aaronpk (I often post things that are images but not photos, like screenshots)
#
ben_thatmustbeme tries to find that link to meaning of various property levels and changes in them
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, its on the h-entry page
#
ben_thatmustbeme http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#change_control
#
Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
#
cweiske so, https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/1
#
aaronpk cool, feel free to reference that in the micropub issue
#
cweiske auto-linked
#
aaronpk ah great
singpolyma, Tennis, KartikPrabhu, friedcell, shiflett, doesntgolf and Pierre-O joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ I responded there, but photo is not just image. The initial distinction comes from photo vs logo in h-card and h-feed
#
KevinMarks__ We also now have u-featured
bashrc and bear joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme you could make the same arguement to html5 then too, as they have the newer tags, <audio><video> and <picture>
miklb joined the channel
#
miklb g'day iIndieWeb
#
aaronpk whose micropub endpoints respond to q=syndicate-to? I'm wondering if it makes sense to drop syndicate-to in favor of returning the syndication targets in q=config
#
aaronpk oh hey i just realized i can check that myself :-)
#
miklb voxpelli's does. I use it
goodoo joined the channel
#
miklb wait, what do you mean by responds to
#
aaronpk supports?
#
aaronpk uses?
#
miklb well I can pass syndicate-to to Quill with it
#
miklb then store the value for use. Not sure if that's what you are asking :)
danielcberman joined the channel
#
aaronpk I just realized I can use all the tokens in Quill and query everyone's endpoints myself :)
#
aaronpk i'm just wondering about the implementations of q=syndicate-to vs q=config
#
miklb I'm not familiar enough with the difference. I know syndicate-to isn't implemented in the latest version of his webpage-micropub-github
#
aaronpk okay summary results are most endpoints don't implement either, and the vast majority only implement q=syndicate-to
snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed aaronpk: the wp plugin responds to q=syndicate-to
#
snarfed but no need to block anything on that, easy to change
#
snarfed data++ too, nice work
#
Loqi data has 3 karma (2 in this channel)
j4y_funabashi joined the channel
#
snarfed reminds me of https://twitter.com/fatih/status/758355980442828800
#
@fatih Question: "We should add this new feature" Others: "Not sure it's worth" #Golang: Thug life 😎 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoY3loJXgAEtunq.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/758355980442828800)
tantek, snarfed, cweiske, wolftune, goodoo, KartikPrabhu, jpcguy89, snarfed1, tbbrown, hs0ucy, nitot, quails, leg, sneanias and AndChat|566325 joined the channel
#
snarfed wonders how/if aaronpk will pesos his new fb profile pic: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10102709225776736&set=a.756345934636.2343899.11500459
wolftune, ricardokirkner, sneanias, goodoo, pindonga, kants_, StatelessCat, sonicrocketman, snarfed, smcgregor, JasonO, rektide, mlncn, rascul, jdp, tnguyen14, jdcauley, MylesBraithwaite, Salt, KevinMarks__, AngeloGladding, cleverdevil, bashrc, KartikPrabhu, cweiske, lmorchard, Ruxton, halorgium, PFMurph_, M-rongladney, danielcberman, bttf, frzn, Gold, Zegnat, tommorris, kline, Jeena, R2ZER0, jboy, arlen, sbruce, comzeradd, daf, iboxifoo, tonious, ePirat, sknebel, mattl, Leeky, brianloveswords, myfreeweb, aliusd, wagle, singpolyma, __number5__, rhiaro, terminalpixel, RyanRix[m], Tennis, XgF, Erkan_Yilmaz, cjk101010, cuibonobo, lhynes, michel_v, corenominal, renoirb, marinintim, moredhel, chimo, ben_thatmustbeme, tantek, jihaisse, bnvk_, quails, braidn, neanias, tbbrown, Guerillero|BNC, catsup, squeakytoy, reidab, tbrb, M-nd, bear, petermolnar, leg, rdesfo[m], GWG, raucao, hs0ucy, plindner, bjoern, j4y_funabashi, sandro-, aaronpk, cmal, shiflett, a_, kerozene, finchd, anarchivist and Garbee joined the channel
#
Guest38512 neat! https://twitter.com/paul_tibbetts/status/775394877609836545
#
@paul_tibbetts Run your own website? Interested in the #indieweb? Live near Brum? Join us on Oct. 5th for the 1st @homebrewbrum https://homebrewbrum.co.uk/ (twitter.com/_/status/775394877609836545)
#
cweiske shpub is now able to delete posts, create articles and reposts in addition to note, reply and like
bret, ricardokirkner, matthewtrask, CaptainCalliope, snarfed, Jammy_Stuff, voxpelli, AndChat|566325, goodoo, mattl, gRegorLove, ehlovader and [benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] Who runs the Homebrew Website Club Brighton meetup?
#
Loqi [benatwork]: tantek left you a message on 2016-06-30 at 5:00pm UTC: did you take any photos or do you have slides to share from your talk last night? https://sfnewtech.com/event/062916/ if so could you share them here in the channel (or add to a wiki stub like https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-29-sf-new-tech-indieweb ) ?
#
Loqi [benatwork]: tantek left you a message 1 week, 5 days ago: I kind of have to disagree with most of your analysis in this email, but the format makes it horrible for discussion, especially several points in one message/thread. https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=topic/known-dev/orekBTTJMfg#!topic/known-dev/orekBTTJMfg
#
[benatwork] hmm, those are p old
#
Guest38512 yeah
#
Guest38512 wat
#
tantek whoa that was weird
#
Loqi tantek: sensiblemn left you a message 5 days, 1 hour ago: that i'm sorry for not RSVPing for the last MIT indiewebcamp before or during the event. i'm on there now.
#
Loqi tantek: cweiske left you a message 6 hours, 44 minutes ago: - what do you think about https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/48 ?
AndChat|566325 joined the channel
#
sensiblemn haha
#
Loqi ahahaha
#
sensiblemn loqi, you're funny
pindonga, wolftune, snarfed and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Benatwork: I think it's adactio
#
[benatwork] kevinmarks: Thanks! I might go to the one in lateish October. Although if there’s one in London, that’s where I’ll actually be, so I’ll probably go there instead.
Lana joined the channel
#
[benatwork] For a custom domain to be useable for indieauth, we just need to add `rel=“me”` links, right? Is there anything I’m forgetting?
#
[benatwork] (Asking for reasons that’ll become clear later)
#
[benatwork] And, er, apologies for Slack markup in the IRC channel
#
snarfed ooh exciting ^^^ [grabs popcorn]
#
[kevinmarks] That's pretty much it,yes.
#
[kevinmarks] And they have to add libks back too
#
[benatwork] Cool. Thank you. Hopefully adding a couple of platforms to the “supported” list soon.
#
[kevinmarks] I made a chrome plugin, but it gets false negatives because of indiewebify.me backend bugs
aaronpk, j4y_funabashi, sandro- and shiflett joined the channel
#
[benatwork] I’ve been a bit quiet for the last few months. Hoping to be much less so from here on out.
#
[benatwork] Will start with this.
#
snarfed benatwork++
#
Loqi benatwork has 1 karma
#
snarfed benwerd++ heh
#
Loqi benwerd has 123 karma (99 in this channel)
#
[benatwork] I also need to figure out why I can’t log in as benwerd from here but that’s another story
#
[benatwork] !tell benwerd Hey. When you finally make it back in here, don’t forget to make a page on IndieBot
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek benatwork PLEASE don't abuse rel=nofollow on those rel=me links if you can
#
tantek seems to be a common silo anti-pattern, assume all users are guilty as spammers unless otherwise proven, and put rel=nofollow on their outbound links
goodoo and snarfed joined the channel
#
[benatwork] In the hypothetical situation where I would lead the openness team and be working on web distribution for such a site, I would be vehemently opposed to nofollow
#
[benatwork] and certainly if you were using your own domain, I’d suggest that nofollow never be used
#
tantek nofollow, when Google et al pitched it, was supposed to be *only* for *links* in *comments* on people's posts, not the posts themselves
#
[benatwork] yeah - there are strong reasons why, eg, wikipedia use it on user-generated content, but I agree that they’re an antipattern
#
tantek benatwork, on wikipedia, they have good data on why they can assume users are spammers until proven otherwise
#
tantek most silos, that's absolutely not the case
mattl joined the channel
#
[benatwork] yep
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
[benatwork] Huh, YouTube just launched blogging
snarfed and cuibonobo joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ Wait, what?
#
gRegorLove What is nofollow?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "nofollow" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
gRegorLove What is rel-nofollow?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-nofollow" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
[benatwork] KevinMarks: https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2016/09/youtube-community-goes-beyond-video.html
arlen joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what is no-follow?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "no-follow" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
KartikPrabhu now we just need Youtube chat!
#
gRegorLove Hey, [benatwork]. Glad you'll be around more often!
#
gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: They have it for live streams :)
#
KevinMarks__ nofollow is a rel value meant to stop search engines imputing endorsement from a link. It has been overused by silos to keep SEO power for themselves rather than linked-to posts.
#
Loqi ok
#
KevinMarks__ Is that the plus engine in YouTube
#
gRegorLove no-follow is /nofollow
#
Loqi ok
#
gRegorLove rel-nofollow is /nofollow
#
Loqi ok
#
KartikPrabhu nofollow << http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-nofollow
#
Loqi ok, I added "http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-nofollow" to the "See Also" section of /nofollow
#
Loqi rel="nofollow"
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ nofollow << http://microformats.org/wiki/votelinks
#
Loqi ok, I added "http://microformats.org/wiki/votelinks" to the "See Also" section of /nofollow
#
Loqi Vote Links
jgee, pindonga, jgee85, AndChat|566325, thebaer and aliusd joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "The IndieWeb plug-ins for WordPress enable comments by Webmention - this is a good page to read to get started." by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-13 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/the-indieweb-plug-ins-for-wordpress-enable-comments-by-webmention
#
GWG pfefferle wants the rel.me stuff out of the plugin.
#
tantek GWG, and what's the reasoning?
#
tantek presumably you mean the "IndieWeb" plugin
#
tantek especially given that we've iterated on it, live, in IndieWebCamps, with WordPress users, and without some direct benefit, were repeatedly confused about the IndieWeb plugin
#
GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/40
#
GWG Yes
#
GWG But when it was just a plugin installer, people had issues
#
GWG I am taking his other issues to heart.
#
tantek right, more issues, and that was worse
#
tantek also, even as of December last year, there was no good easy way to setup IndieAuth / rel-me for WordPress users
#
tantek (and that was with several of us "experts" trying to help people)
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
KevinMarks hm, a webmention comment by me got marked as spam on Dan G's blog
#
tantek so it was pretty clear that the very first thing a new-to-indieweb WordPress user needed was a *simple* way to get IndieAuth working, which made sense that the IndieWeb plugin should provide
#
GWG Which is why it is where it is.
#
tantek GWG, perhaps you can capture that in a README for the plugin
#
GWG But more control is probably needed.
#
GWG I should, and on the wiki.
#
tantek GWG, here: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb
#
KevinMarks (that post above)
#
KevinMarks I was able to mark it as non-spam, as I am an admin on dan's blog, but that seems suboptimal
#
tantek actually marked as spam? or just held for moderation?
#
GWG If you just need the plugin installer then you might as well install for a list on the wiki.
#
GWG KevinMarks, Akismet?
#
tantek yes
#
tantek yes re: list on the wiki
#
KevinMarks marked as spam, and then held
#
KevinMarks short post with a link in?
#
GWG Is the Spam fighting using Akismet?
arlen joined the channel
#
KevinMarks yes
arlen joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks if you put too many links (e.g. citations) into a comment, whether typed into a comment form, or sent via webmention/pingback, WordPress + usual plugins will mark it as spam or hold for moderation.
#
GWG Semantic Linkbacks enhances the webmention after Akismet checks it for spam.
#
tantek Is there anyway to bypass Akismet? It seems overly aggressive on "good comments"
snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG tantek, turn it off?
#
GWG But I think if the mf2 parsing happened before the spam detection we'd get better results.
#
GWG I am still working on the new version that I started at NYC 2
#
GWG It uses php-comments to simplify things.
#
GWG It also uses OGP if the PHP version is below 5.3
mlncn, arlen and [benatwork] joined the channel
#
[benatwork] IndieAuth question: it’s claiming https://words.werd.io/ has no valid URLs, but has a rel=“me” link to my Twitter profile
#
[benatwork] However, the Twitter link uses the (valid) //twitter.com/benwerd syntax rather than specifying http or https
pindonga joined the channel
#
KevinMarks I get a 500 for words.werd.io
#
[benatwork] !
#
[benatwork] well that’s bad news
#
[benatwork] OK, thanks - back to the drawing board, I guess
#
KevinMarks ah, it loaded on a refresh
#
[benatwork] weird
#
Loqi [indieweb] "my plugin liked the re="me" on twitter #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-13 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/my-plugin-liked-the-reme-on-twitter-indieweb
#
[benatwork] yeah, it’s actually giving errors on the accounts:
#
[benatwork] //twitter.com/benwerd - This is not a supported authentication provider
#
Loqi [indieweb] "and vice versa, it liked the link back too #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-13 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/and-vice-versa-it-liked-the-link-back-too-indieweb
#
KevinMarks so the indiewebify.me link checker is happy
#
[benatwork] kevinmarks: ok, your plugin is cool
#
[benatwork] yeah, the link checker seems happy - but alas, not indieauth.com itself
#
[benatwork] is that still aaron?
#
[benatwork] (and I want to play with that plugin!)
pindonga joined the channel
#
KevinMarks I haven't made a lot of fuss about ti as it is showing errors with case due to indiewebify.me
#
KevinMarks also there is an http to https issue that we're still debating
#
KevinMarks and I wanted to give aaron a chance to recover from xoxo
#
[benatwork] :slightly_smiling_face: the podcast studio he built was the coolest thing ever.
#
gRegorLove Re: the http/https issue, KevinMarks, I'm leaning towards an indieauth-specific test that is strict on that, and then a separate, general test for rel-me that only shows a notice if there's an http => https change
#
KevinMarks https://github.com/indieweb/verify-me
#
gRegorLove The latter would also work regardless of the order
#
KevinMarks I think coming up with a way to return warning text instead of just 'false' would be good
#
KevinMarks as warnign that you have a link, but no rel=me on it is also useful
#
gRegorLove Definitely. That's a pre-req to any solution I think
#
KevinMarks (I could make my own server-side link checker, but I thin iterating on indiewebify.me's one is worth it)
#
KevinMarks that's the code, ben
#
gRegorLove Agreed. I'm eager to improve indiewebify.me
#
KevinMarks or instal the extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/verify-me/nnefkajddpfponfnmaflddipljfdlcjb
#
KevinMarks (if you try it on my site you get double-ticks as it's also running locally)
tantek joined the channel
#
KevinMarks hm, and apprently not linking twitter at the moment
thebaer joined the channel
#
[benatwork] kevinmarks: super-cool - thanks
#
KevinMarks (it's using the indiewebify link checker service)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] I wonder if I should show a shruggie if I get the 400 error