#indieweb 2016-09-16
2016-09-16 UTC
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@girlziplocked Facebook actually kills your social muscles. It's like how TV kills your brain. You stop being a strong friend. You're just a weak tie. (twitter.com/_/status/776462918447534080)
# @girlziplocked If you quit Facebook, you'll probably literally have withdrawal symptoms. You need to treat it like an actual addiction. (twitter.com/_/status/776471572802527232)
# 
tantek what I've been doing (and thinking about) so far: https://indieweb.org/Facebook#How_to_wean_yourself_from
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[kevinmarks] Did you share the link with Holly?
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# 
Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-16.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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# 
gRegorLove Good evening, indieweb
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petermolnar cweiske no, it can be any text
# petermolnar wp_insert_post does magic, many, many magic
# petermolnar so answering your question is rather hard
# petermolnar if it's a regular wordpress use case, I'd convert it to HTML
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@Moturoais Want to see us in person? You can, at @TheScarefest , Sept 30 - Oct 2nd. #indiefilm #indie #horror #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/776733416658206721)
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# petermolnar put it in <pre> :)
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DanC_ I want to do a "fragments" thing like Tim Bray and Norm Walsh where they republish their tweets and such once a week on their blog.
# 
Zegnat DanC_: IndieWeb largely prefers POSSE (http://indieweb.org/POSSE) which means tweets go from your site and are then published to twitter, so not a lot of it going the other way
# DanC_ making adequate harvesting tools is easier than making good authoring tools
# DanC_ plus I want to do it retroactively
# DanC_ most of the POSSE tools I've seen are in PHP, which I have a profound distaste for
# DanC_ also: I'm thinking about collecting weekly fragments from github, twitter, etc.
# DanC_ aaronpk, you wrote a piece about a 3-tier architecture that I'd really like to adopt.
# DanC_ I think.
# DanC_ oh... and diigo. twitter, github, diigo. (and flickr? maybe a few other places. https://www.diigo.com/user/dckc-madmode/me )
# DanC_ hopes he bookmarked the 3-tier thing under https://www.diigo.com/user/dckc-madmode/publishing ...
# DanC_ chrome thinks https://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ isn't safe to look at. :-/
# DanC_ looks like the cert is for www.aaron-gustafson.com
# DanC_ Octopress is nice... but it's ruby. I have nothing against ruby except that it's not interestingly different from python and I'm heavily invested in python.
# DanC_ ah... that's another Aaron
# DanC_ on the other hand, The Cost of Being Different argues for piling on with Octopress.
# DanC_ I wonder what it would cost to preserve my existing URLs. And most of my content predates markdown. And I like using ipython notebook to write some of my more technical blog items.
# DanC_ (I generate HTML from .ipynb)
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[schmarty] DanC_: since so many folks are rolling their own implementations, there may not be that many benefits to reworking your content info Octopress.
# DanC_ I'm particularly interested to use https://sandstorm.io/ for any services. I started http://capsite.madmode.com/
# [schmarty] i run an ugly mishmash of jekyll for site generation, but all of my micropub and publish handling is done with little Flask-based services written in python. each piece is kind of standalone and gets the job done.
# DanC_ Flask for micropub... do tell?
# DanC_ (Flask uses globals more than I'd like, but for front-side-of-a-page stuff, I don't mind.)
# DanC_ pointers?
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# Loqi kaku is an open-source Python Flask app that can be used to handle incoming micropub, webmention and token requests https://indieweb.org/Kaku
# [schmarty] My micropub handler is derived from bear's in many ways. It accepts micropub requests, writes them into jekyll posts, commits and pushes to a remove git repo.
# Loqi ronkyuu is a Python open source project that is being designed to help with Webmention requirements for static sites https://indieweb.org/ronkyuu
# DanC_ my site is "based on a flask-based static blog generator by Nicolas Perriault" -- http://www.madmode.com/
# [schmarty] The git push triggers a rebuild that syncs the static site.
# DanC_ git... sigh... I'm learning it, reluctantly... migrating my hg knowledge is slow and painful
# DanC_ bear, pointer?
# DanC_ stalks bear...
# Loqi Bear is Indieweb'r creating and using Python toolkits living near Philadelphia, PA https://indieweb.org/bear
# DanC_ (boy did I hit the jackpot wandering into #indieweb today!)
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# DanC_ ok... I'm wandering thru https://indieweb.org/bear ... who else ... [schmarty], voxpelli...
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# [schmarty] bear: thanks! I tend to work by cargo-culting parts of different projects together, so I mostly cribbed little bits of request handling here and there. i'm grateful that you published your work!
# DanC_ what is voxpelli
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "voxpelli" yet. Would you like to create it?
# [schmarty] What is User:martymcguir.e?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "User:martymcguir.e" yet. Would you like to create it?
# [schmarty] s/mcguir.e/mcgui.re/
# DanC_ searches indieweb.org; finds http://voxpelli.com/
# DanC_ nick links... nice! let's see if I can figure out how to do that...
# [schmarty] What is schmarty?
# Loqi Marty McGuire is a freelance web developer in Baltimore, MD, USA https://indieweb.org/schmarty
# DanC_ identity crisis... maybe time to use dckc for my nick?
# [schmarty] Hmm, not sure I set up that redirect correctly.
# DanC_ wishes for a rocket.chat bridge
# Loqi Marty McGuire is a freelance web developer in Baltimore, MD, USA https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Martymcgui.re
# [schmarty] It's important to ask the right question, haha
# Loqi Bear is Indieweb'r creating and using Python toolkits living near Philadelphia, PA https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Bear.im
# DanC_ as timbl pointed out at the decentralized web summit, chat.indieweb.org (using, say, rocket.chat) makes more sense than centralizing at freenode.net. Perhaps another day...
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rocket.chat" yet. Would you like to create it?
# DanC_ I'll spin up a quick rocket chat using standstorm...
# 
aaronpk DanC_: i'm still working on moving the chat interface from https://indieweb.org/irc/today to https://chat.indieweb.org
# DanC_ oh... so you're ahead of me
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# DanC_web_ui ping
# DanC_ well, FWIW: I spun up a new rocketchat on sandstorm meanwhile: https://oasis.sandstorm.io/shared/ZiAtje8STuozoBEPOT64GsFkqQeuPFzoz5OyTY-iez8
# DanC_ pop()
# DanC_ too many tabs :)
# DanC_ ok. got it. I was a little disoriented by the page that asked me to choose between twitter and github OAuth
# DanC_ hard to articulate
# DanC_ the green bar is clear...
# DanC_ but the buttons with checkmarks look like they're done. They don't invite clicking.
# DanC_ green buttons with checkmarks
# DanC_ it wasn't until I read the text that I understood what to do
# DanC_ "Authenticate using one of the methods below"
# DanC_ and there's somehow not enough separation between the buttons I should choose between and the "You will be redirected to ..." stuff
# DanC_ screenshot, FWIW: https://diigo.com/08wd72
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# DanC_ hm. that didn't work so well
# 
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: the check mark is indicating that the endpoint is "verified" yes?
# DanC_ er... I think I already had an account on indieweb... did I just make another one?
# KartikPrabhu DanC_ : authenticating via Indieauth does not make a new account
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# [kevinmarks] I saw someone confused by the green buttons too
# DanC_ no... I guess I'm thinking of microformats.org
# [kevinmarks] Dan: other python projects are woodwind and unmung
# DanC_ Hi [kevinmarks]. the gang's all here today! Or did I just usually check at the wrong time of day?
# [kevinmarks] It's usually most active daytime/evenings pdt
# DanC_ (does [nick] mean you're proxied or something?)
# [kevinmarks] I'm talking in slack, yes
# [kevinmarks] There's an activity graph here: http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html
# [kevinmarks] I should rerun that
# DanC_ I followed a link to the unmug github page, where I utterly failed to ignore the blue notifications icon.
# DanC_ no unmung/README ... whee!
# KartikPrabhu DanC_: http://www.unmung.com/
# KartikPrabhu what is unmung?
# Loqi Unmung is a service that turns Atom and RSS feeds into h-feeds https://indieweb.org/unmung
# DanC_ h-feed... not many market forces lining up to help with that one, are there?
# KartikPrabhu DanC_: we use it regularly so <shrug> for "market forces"
# DanC_ which "we"? use it for what? do tell?
# Loqi Woodwind is a minimalist open source indie reader by https://kylewm.com/photo.jpgKyle Mahan https://indieweb.org/Woodwind
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# KartikPrabhu DanC_: we as in people on indieweb using their own sites. h-feed or microformats in general are very useful for webmentions (sending/receiving responses/comments)
# KartikPrabhu for example
# KartikPrabhu also see woodwind which is a /reader based on h-feed and h-entry parsing
# DanC_ I'm in the market for a new feed reader... transitioning from feedly... used tinytinyRSS until the trial period on the android app expired... haven't gotten past the cognitive burden of purchasing. (the price doesn't bother me)
# DanC_ I must confess to (still) reading slashdot regularly; tinytinyrss rejects slashdot's feed syntax
# DanC_ I hope I am misanalyzing. But twitter used to offer RSS feeds but don't any more. and linkedin has turned itself into a facebook clone. and so on.
# DanC_ let's see...
# DanC_ fair enough
# KevinMarks Woodwind uses feedparser so it can read anything
# DanC_ it would be nice if I didn't have to make all my own tools. It was nice when android matured to the point where I don't have to sysadmin my phone (much)
# DanC_ OTOH, I *like* making some of my own tools :)
# DanC_ in fact, I'm on vacation this week, and all I can think about is all the stuff I want to make/fix
# [kevinmarks] What is granary?
# Loqi granary is a library and REST API that frees you from social network API chaff and and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, Atom, XML, and more https://indieweb.org/granary
# [kevinmarks] Granary will make feeds from silos for you that you can read in woodwind
# DanC_ ok... stepping back from kid-in-candy-store overwhelm...
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# DanC_ I want to read sandstorm's feed and slashdot from my phone and have some service keep track of what I read. and I better add an indieweb feed so I learn about these tools as they appear rather than all in one firehose
# KevinMarks Woodwind is a good reader, especially with micropub integration to post from
# DanC_ yeah... I'd like to start with the hypothesis that I don't need a new project
# DanC_ (except maybe to package woodwind for sandstorm)
# KevinMarks It does not track read/unread status though, it's more river of news than inbox style
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# DanC_ I read different feeds at different rates. For some of my peers, I'm happy to catch up once every few months. But I don't want to miss anything they wrote
# DanC_ I haven't managed to adopt the zen of river-of-news
# DanC_ I'm infected by inbox zero and such
# KevinMarks Well, woodwind lets you tag feeds so you can have different lists of feeds to check
# KevinMarks You can do that with the tags
# DanC_ elaborate? I don't see how tags help me keep track of what I've read
# KevinMarks It lets you have a stream for the "don't miss" separate from the main stream
# 
bear watching this video about failure of standards and at time marker 2:38 Harry mentions what describes the IndieWeb http://redecentralize.org/conf2015/2016/09/07/13-ten-years-of-standards-failure.html
# DanC_ tantek, care to recommend a reader for every item?
# KevinMarks Right, and there is no unread number
# DanC_ wishes for a way to queue harry's talk for an upcoming commute
# DanC_ easy enough...
# KevinMarks By default, everything goes in the main stream
# KevinMarks You can tag some feeds to go in other streams as well
# DanC_ bookmarked harry's talk under https://www.diigo.com/user/dckc-madmode/commute
# KevinMarks And you can exclude them from the main stream
# DanC_ I'm utterly addicted to diigo. I'm more hopeful of PESOS than POSSE on that one. (in fact, I already sorta do that with a js tag cloud on my site)
# KevinMarks What is diigo?
# DanC_ diigo is like delicious plus the killer feature: saving highlighted selections
# DanC_ (and a few other bits and bobs)
# DanC_ when I go hunting for something, when I find the solution, I squirrel it away as a diigo selection
# 
voxpelli I publish highlighted sections, highlighted in Instapaper, to my blog: http://voxpelli.com/links/2016/06/why-britain-banned-mobile-apps/
# DanC_ I have mentally filed Instapaper as too expensive or something. but if it has highlighted sections, that might explain why I hear about it as often as I do
# KevinMarks Does it still use fragmentions?
# DanC_ has mixed feelings about not going to TPAC any more
# KevinMarks Tantek: you could port my fragmention display back to your version of autolink
# tantek KevinMarks: go ahead and add to https://indieweb.org/Demos#IndieWeb_Demos
# Loqi Demos are IndieWeb projects with instructions on how to demonstrate them, preferably quickly like under a minute or so, and lists of demo sessions from past IndieWebCamps https://indieweb.org/Demos
# KevinMarks http://www.unmung.com/?rawtext=Thus+we+could+turn+a+link+like+this%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fkartikprabhu.com%2Farticle%2Fmarginalia%23In%2520the%2520case%2520of%2520digital%2520content%2C%2520the%2520artifact%2C%2520once%2520created%2520and%2520published%2C%2520is%2520not%2520static.+into+an+inline+embed&maxurllength=0&embed=on
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# KevinMarks It does encourage longer fragmentions, true
# KevinMarks But it is within the spirit of autolink being bale to transform with just what it has, nor having to fetch the url
# Zegnat True. And I do like that part! I just don’t think it is equal to the first example on http://www.kevinmarks.com/mentionquote.html where you quote a sentence and link an article.
# DanC_ is reminded of aaronsw via https://indieweb.org/comment-policies ... still mourning after how many years?
# DanC_ "When you lose something you can't replace"
# [kevinmarks] Hm, I like the idea of verify-me showing Facebook as a bad rel me player
# [kevinmarks] Maybe I'll link an archive.org version of my fb page back when it had rel me on
# KevinMarks I suspect that content hashing would help there - link and include a hash for the version you linked to.
# tantek GWG, neither am I, however I am weaning myself, e.g. https://indieweb.org/Facebook#How_to_wean_yourself_from
# KevinMarks The toc is a bit odd on that page now
# KevinMarks The toc is showing next to Features, which is broken looking on mobile
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Toc still a bit odd #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-16 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/toc-still-a-bit-odd-indieweb
# KevinMarks True
# KevinMarks Chrome for Android gives a "make mobile friendly" prompt now
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# Loqi [indieweb] "Jeremy, it's not exactly a mobile bookmarklet, but perhaps you can co-opt the sharing function on mobile with something like URL Forwarder in the Google" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-09-16 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/jeremy-its-not-exactly-a-mobile-bookmarklet-but-perhaps-you
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# @girlziplocked .@t creating an open-source guide to help you break facebook addiction: https://indieweb.org/Facebook%23How_to_wean_yourself_from (twitter.com/_/status/776861055460921344)
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# KevinMarks Yes I told Holly
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# Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-16.html
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# [kevinmarks] We forgot at sv Homebrew
# [kevinmarks] Also someone was there incognito
# [kevinmarks] There was this one, but I don't think that is right for the newsletter
# 
@sdepolo Happy Birthday to @kevinmarks! Good times chatting bout #indieweb innovations at our first… https://www.instagram.com/p/BKXSOHKBETd/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsXou2IXEAA6KKE.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/776282405154000896)
# Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 2pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-09-16.html
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# aaronpk related to this https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub/issues/34
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# KevinMarks1 why is loqi showing tantek in here? he didn't mention indieweb
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# DanC_ hmm... python or javascript? anybody here use ghost or any other javascript static site generator? or a node.js based blog?
# DanC_ maybe I'll start with https://github.com/bear/python-twitter ...
# DanC_ Sep 16 12:29:29 <bear> I would suggest creating your project list on your user's page and then start iterating :)
# Loqi [indieweb] "ghost tantek posts in #indieweb irc from loqi (only on the live updates)" by Kevin Marks on 2016-09-16 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/ghost-tantek-posts-in-indieweb-irc-from-loqi-only-on
# KevinMarks1 if I reload, the tantek posts vanish
# gRegorLove What is ghost?
# Loqi Ghost is an an open source blogging software project written in node.js, and also a hosted silo at ghost.org https://indieweb.org/Ghost
# KevinMarks1 are these the lost xoxo ones?
# gRegorLove DanC_: There's IndieWeb Examples on that page ^
# KevinMarks1 I have used Hugo which is a go SSG
# DanC_ I tried go... didn't float my boat somehow
# DanC_ tried Hugo that is
# KevinMarks1 it is very magic inheritance folder centric
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# KevinMarks1 i managed to get hugo to do that right for lifewithalacrity.com
# KevinMarks1 also mirrored the old site at lifewithalacrity.com/previous
# KevinMarks1 I had to relativise the urls so, I wrote a thing for that
# KevinMarks1 true
# DanC_ lifewithalacrity.com ... I like the look
# KevinMarks1 python munging utils for that at https://github.com/ChristopherA/LifeWithAlacrityBlog
# KevinMarks1 the look is the Tufte CSS, changed a bit to fit Hugo
# DanC_ Tufte CSS... that's a thing? cool.
# KevinMarks1 I had to adjust it for nesting things, as christopher uses more nested lists than tufte does
# DanC_ "When a casual user wants a quick place to write, they have Medium. When a serious user wants to build out a full publication and control their whole site and subscriber-base, they have Ghost." <- is medium powered by ghost?
# DanC_ quote is from http://john.onolan.org/the-state-of-casual-blogging/
# KevinMarks1 medium has that now
# KevinMarks1 what was the bug?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bug" yet. Would you like to create it?
# DanC_ medium has what now? I think i'm lost
# KevinMarks1 " a full publication and control their whole site and subscriber-base"
# DanC_ ah.
# DanC_ full control... so they'll let you use your own domain?
# KevinMarks1 yes
# DanC_ cool
# kteare test
# KevinMarks1 eg https://theawl.com
# KevinMarks1 hi keith
# kteare Hi
# KevinMarks1 what is chatcenter?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chatcenter" yet. Would you like to create it?
# kteare chat.center is a cloud service issuing chat URLs to people and businesses. It allows others to chat with the URL owner simply by knowing the chat URL. An example is chat.center/keith [mine]
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "talky.io" yet. Would you like to create it?
# kteare The URL is sufficient. No need to have the chat initiator install anything
# kteare It uses the DNS so chat.indieweb.com can be a chat URL, by using a cname
# kteare map chat.indieweb.com to domains.chat.center
# kteare once you have subscribed
# kteare what is chat.center
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chat.center" yet. Would you like to create it?
# DanC_ and lo! PESOS: http://capsite.madmode.com/some_tweets.html
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# DanC_ todo: un-shorten URLs, add h-* markup, find reasonable style
# DanC_ ah... API provides expanded_url
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# KevinMarks They also provide rules for how you're supposed to present things
# DanC_ sounds helpful
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