#indieweb 2016-10-21

2016-10-21 UTC
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KevinMarks1 Per user would imply I have user login, which I don't
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KevinMarks1 but I should add a NIPSA setting
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tantek per post then
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KevinMarks1 the fullscreen version is worse, wow
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tantek you could even implement optional IndieAuth sign-in, which could give privilege to mark/unmark something NIPSA as well
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tantek trusting the indieweb to moderate for you
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tantek indieauth login = super user level 1
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tantek what is a superuser?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "superuser" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks1 I can do google login for free 'cos it's appengine, but indieauth is work
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tantek A superuser is a privileged user on a site (typically a [[silo]], like [[Foursquare) that has some admin abilities, sometimes different based on what "level" of superuser the user has been granted or has achieved.
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Loqi ok
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tantek oops
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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gRegorLove !tell aaronpk I think I've got my private webmentions sorted out
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks Try http://indieweb.org for advice on making your own site https://twitter.com/sohamkanade/status/789355261987201024 (twitter.com/_/status/789357055790374912)
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@jkphl The postman rang. We got some stickers. \o/ In other words: Bring it on, @indiewebcamp Berlin! Thanks @aaronpk!… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/789436184686657537 (twitter.com/_/status/789436184686657537)
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@daskitsunet @jkphl @indiewebcamp @aaronpk @IndieWebCampDE @indiewebcat @microformats HALP, need cat stickers, how to get if not possible to come? (twitter.com/_/status/789436898368520192)
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jonnybarnes if I want to POSSE to facebook, I need to make an app and submit it feo review?
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Jeena you can use brid.gy
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jonnybarnes the login review process looks ridiculous
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Jeena http://brid.gy/
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Jeena they take a post which you have marked up with microformats and post it for you to facebook via the API
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Jeena you could also use https://silo.pub/ if you have a micro pub client already
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jonnybarnes I migh need to look into silo.pub? can a client post to two seperate endpoints?
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Jeena I haven't used it myself but I think it does post everywhere you connect it to
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: i use silo.pub to post to facebook
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Loqi aaronpk: gRegorLove left you a message 9 hours, 9 minutes ago: I think I've got my private webmentions sorted out
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aaronpk yay gRegorLove
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: using you Quill client?
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aaronpk not quite
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aaronpk in this case, p3k itself is the micropub client. basically i can add any number of syndication targets that support micropub to p3k
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aaronpk here's my settings screen https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-10-21-07-26-37.png
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aaronpk those options show up in quill https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-10-21-07-27-34.png
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aaronpk so quill posts to my micropub endpoint to create the post, and then totally separately, my endpoint syndicates the post to whichever i clicked on by either making another micropub request or sending a webmention like for bridgy and indienews
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jonnybarnes how does location need to be marked up (specifically lat,lng) for bridgy to syndicate it to twitter?
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jonnybarnes the preview option doesn’t suggest my current location markup is compatible with bridgy
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tantek jonnybarnes: how are you marking it up? example URL?
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jonnybarnes here’s the current deployed version: https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/CB
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Loqi [Jonny Barnes] What a goal! #mufclive
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jonnybarnes though I’ve edited it slightly
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jonnybarnes but I can’t deploy
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jonnybarnes because I can’t access github.com
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jonnybarnes or twitter.com
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tantek do you have screenshots of those sites being unavailable/down? perhaps add them to the wiki?
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jonnybarnes well, I can’t access them at the moment because of a DNS issue
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tantek location, latitude, longitude seem reasonable, and re-used from h-event and h-card. let's see if they made it into h-entry...
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jonnybarnes even switching to google dns doesn’t work
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tantek a-ha p-location made it!
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tantek whoa I can't access github.com either!
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sknebel Dyn is being DDOSed
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sknebel which has hit quite a few high-profile sites
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jonnybarnes yeah, dig just comes up blank
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tantek i was going to file an issue for Bridgy Publish to support p-location when POSSEing to a destination that supports location
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jonnybarnes well, twitter doesn’t acually support location, just latitude and longitude values
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sknebel now the outage even seems to have spread to europe, we were fine at first
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[schmarty] a DNS DDoS?
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[schmarty] now's my chance to advocate for more .onion versions of sites
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tantek jonnybarnes: ^^^ when github comes back, file an issue requesting that Bridgy Publish parse p-location in the source h-entry and POSSE it to destinations that support location: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/
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jonnybarnes okay
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tantek since p-location is part of the h-entry spec :)
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tantek (core property even, which means it's considered very stable)
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[schmarty] speaking of stable properties - is the h-event under active development?
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sknebel [schmarty]: it's surprising to see how many of these high-profile sites rely on one DNS provider
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KevinMarks Is dyn used to do clever cdn things with dns?
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jonnybarnes so regrding POSSE to twitter, you either send lat/lng pair, or a place id
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tantek schmarty, h-event is pretty solid, did you have a specific question about it?
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jonnybarnes but thats a random string you need to lookup with twitter first
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aaronpk wow yeah that's an impressive list http://dyn.com/about/clients/
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jonnybarnes so its easiest with twitter to just send the coordinates
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sknebel KevinMarks: Dyn is mostly used because they are massive and reliable, + apparently they were among the first to offer geo targeting
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tantek jonnybarnes - huh? nah, leave that up to discussion in the bug
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tantek just file the bug minimally
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tantek ok ok
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tantek what is Dyn?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dyn" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel but they are a fairly "normal" DNS provider
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jonnybarnes the other thing, which sanrfed may be able to clarify, is I haven’t actually symdicated anything with bridgy yet
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jonnybarnes just trying the preview mode
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[schmarty] tantek: i've been working on getting quill event posting to my site. between the pages on indieweb and microformats wikis, plus some eyeballing with the pin13 mf2 parser, i think i have something that works well
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jonnybarnes maybe that doesn’t show location
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jonnybarnes but it would get syndicated
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[schmarty] example: https://martymcgui.re/2016/10/19/204651/
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Loqi GHOST PARTY ?? https://martymcgui.re/assets/posts/2016/10/19/204651/ghost-party-header.jpg
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[schmarty] i guess i am curious if anything consumes h-events that i could test this out on.
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jonnybarnes interstingly twitter.com is down, but tweetbot is currently still working
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tantek schmarty - woodwind consumes h-event
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tantek even lets you RSVP right there from the reader!
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[schmarty] tantek - ah, thanks! i'll check out what woodwind thinks of it.
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tantek woodwind is quite amazing
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KevinMarks I love woodwind, but I don't want to promote it too much so Kyle gets big bills
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[schmarty] haha, my site has an issue with woodwind - i put truncated posts on my front page. will need to include the event info there.
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Loqi [schmarty]: lol
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bear looks and sees that people are aware of DYN ddos
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KevinMarks Signing into woodwind with twitter via silo pub could be a great thing to do
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tantek what is DYN?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DYN" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks Do you have a good analysis to read on it bear?
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bear not yet - this is the 3rd ddos on them this morning
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bear DYN is a major DNS providor used by AWS and other companies with world-wide presence
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Loqi ok
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tantek jonnybarnes: feel free to join #microformats to track progress of h-entry btw. it's fairly low traffic
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jonnybarnes tantek: is it on freenode?
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tantek yes!
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KevinMarks This dns outage is an example of where the content hash fallback would be good
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jonnybarnes github is back up for me for now
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jonnybarnes tantek: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/706
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Were you able to retrieve my private post?
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aaronpk gRegorLove: the token from yesterday expired
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aaronpk can you send the webmention again?
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gRegorLove Sent
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tantek jonnybarnes: "You can't comment at this time. "
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tantek wow
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tantek screenshots
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aaronpk gRegorLove: i'm still getting "Please authenticate to view this page."
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gRegorLove argh
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aaronpk the header i'm sending is "Authorization: Bearer eyJ0eX..."
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gRegorLove Huh, expired token error. More for me to debug.
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aaronpk odd
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aaronpk when i used yesterday's token I got a json message saying expired token
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aaronpk this time i just get the HTML page
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gRegorLove Also odd. You should have gotten form-encoded response "error=invalid_request&error_description=Expired+token"
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aaronpk oh you're right. i turned it into json in my head :P
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gRegorLove Hehe. But right now you didn't get that?
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aaronpk right
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gRegorLove First thought was maybe the timezone on the server is wrong, but the code I sent is only valid 5 minutes, vs 1 hour for the authorization_code, so that doesn't make sense.
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gRegorLove takes further discussion to #indieweb-dev
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KevinMarks1 I need a logo for svgur.com - this one doesn't really work: http://svgur.com/s/17
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Loqi svgur spiral http://svgur.com/i/17.svg
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Loqi [indieweb] "I'm complaining about #Twitter #DDoS on my own website because I can :) #indieweb #selfhosting #ownyourdata" by Rick Mendes on 2016-10-21 https://www.rmendes.net/2016/im-complaining-about-twitter-ddos-on-my-own-website-because
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Loqi [indieweb] "I'm complaining about #Twitter #DDoS on my own website because I can :) #indieweb #selfhosting #ownyourdata" by Rick Mendes on 2016-10-21 https://rmendes.net/2016/im-complaining-about-twitter-ddos-on-my-own-website-because
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sknebel *sigh*
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tantek hey is anyone posting issues on their own site and POSSEing them to github (whenever it happens to be up) ?
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tantek https://indieweb.org/github#POSSE_to_GitHub doesn't mention whole issues, hmm
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tantek what is an issue?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "issue" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek wat
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KartikPrabhu what is OOP?
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Loqi The object-oriented-programming antipattern is the excessive / unnecessary use of object-oriented-programming (OOP) and OOP techniques when simple procedural functions would have sufficed, with less overhead, fewer files to navigate around, fewer indirections to follow while debugging, etc https://indieweb.org/OOP
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KartikPrabhu tantek: i recall that you had a OOP vs functional article somewhere... link please :)
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tantek An issue is a special kind of [[article]] post that is a [[reply]] to typically some source [[code]], though potentially anything at a source control repository. silo example: [[GitHub]] issues.
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Loqi ok
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tantek hey snarfed, have you ever posted an issue on your own site and then POSSEd it to github?
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snarfed tantek: i don't think so, sadly
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snarfed maybe once, not sure
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snarfed i've done a few stackoverflow Qs/As
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tantek snarfed, seems like a timely moment to explore the possibilty :)
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snarfed lol
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aaronpk i've done that a couple times
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aaronpk more often replies, but a few issues
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tantek aaronpk, can you find any of the issues? I'm looking for indieweb examples for /issue
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/28/6/push
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] It would be amazing if Granary supported PuSH. That would allow Granary to be smart about how it polls the underlying data sources (since each may have their own varying rate limits) instead of relying on the Granary consumer to implement smart polli...
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snarfed yes! there's already a feature request issue for that
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snarfed oh i see, nm :P
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aaronpk haha sorry
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Loqi ahahahaha
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aaronpk tantek: i found a few more i can add too
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tantek aaronpk: please do! https://indieweb.org/issue#Aaron_Parecki
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tantek hands aaronpk the editing token
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@m_ott @jkphl Brauchte auch noch was übers #IndieWebCamp Wochenende und dachte, Du hast wahrscheinlich schon was gefunden… Viel Erfolg! (twitter.com/_/status/789527575706099712)
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tantek has anyone been able to at least POSSE to Twitter via their API?
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tantek snarfed, when was the last time Bridgy Publish succeeded with posting to Twitter?
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tantek wonders if that's on the home page
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snarfed not on the home page
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snarfed their api was down earlier too
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snarfed saw a few dns errors from bridgy, ownyourresponses, etc
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snarfed dns for twitter.com includes api.twitter.com :P
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snarfed (btw example SO posse answer: https://snarfed.org/app-engine-global-transactions )
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] App Engine global transactions
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KevinMarks Their media endpoint was failing
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KevinMarks1 handy for today? https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/no-more-404s/
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tantek needs an emojicon for issue
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tantek ??
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tantek ?is "BUG" though
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KartikPrabhu so twitter is already down?
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tantek is twitter down?
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tantek how long has twitter been down?
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plindner depends on your DNS I think.
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KartikPrabhu at least 1/2 hour here
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plindner More details in https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/ddos-on-dyn-impacts-twitter-spotify-reddit/
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KevinMarks It's variably down. Because they have lots of hosts, different bits are broken
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aaronpk i can get to it just fine
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KartikPrabhu i guess east-cost is most affected
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bear also depends on where your dns resolver points
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bear lots of isp's run internal dns and probably have increased their ttls just for this
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sl007 aaronpk: From the FAQ: "Why does IndieAuth.com need to see my tweets and see who I follow?" - it does not (at least not for twitter) - this is what the endpoint "1.1/account/verify_credentials.json" was made for …
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aaronpk hm that may not have been there when i first made indieauth.com
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snarfed sl007: it's not about which endpoint you hit, it's about how fine grained the oauth scopes are
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snarfed twitter's are pretty coarse
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tantek yep
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tantek though they added more fine-grained ones over time
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tantek dev-sense tingles
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snarfed hmm not sure about that, iirc twitter's access_type is either read or write
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aaronpk yeah i don't think there's a scope that doesn't give access to tweets
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snarfed oh there's one more for DMs
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snarfed right
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snarfed when twitter's back up, it'll be on https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/post/oauth/request_token
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aaronpk there's a parameter there to request read-only access when the application's default is read/write
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tantek heya what happens to all those github static served JS frameworks yo?
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tantek and sites that depend on those scripts to show anything?
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KevinMarks https://medium.com/@mgsiegler/twitter-is-down-4d5f7cf002b9#.f2f808xsj
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KevinMarks I think I now know what my content addressing demo should be
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tantek a series of screenshots of sites being down today?
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tantek anyone here have any experience with Shopify?
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KevinMarks_ No, a plugin that caches hashes of every url it sees, then uses hash lookup if it finds 404s
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tantek hmm looks like Bing has a decent cache of Twitter URLs
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tantek e.g. http://www.bing.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbcrypt%2Fstatus%2F789510213237895168&go=Submit+Query&qs=ds&form=QBLH
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tantek same query in Google https://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbcrypt%2Fstatus%2F789510213237895168&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Your search - https://twitter.com/bcrypt/status/789510213237895168 - did not match any documents.
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tantek I see: "global DNS ddos is the grownup version of a snow day. ☃️"
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tantek hey everyone who POSSEs - do you do any (semi-)automatic retries upon POSSE failure (e.g. if silo is down for whatever reasons e.g. DNS DDoS)
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tantek Falcon just keeps track of what it has / hasn't POSSEd, and always attempts to POSSE the earliest thing that has yet to succeed POSSEing
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tantek (e.g. upon trying to "Post" another post)
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snarfed bridgy retries backfeed webmentions for up to 1d
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KevinMarks_ Wayback is good for the icon urls
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snarfed starts at 30s, expentional backoff to 1h
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tantek snarfed, that's on the silo side, or the sending backfeed webmentions to indieweb sites side?
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snarfed wms to indie sites
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tantek cool
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tantek aaronpk: does the Webmention spec say what to do if the sending fails (after discovery step) ?
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snarfed http://indieweb.org/Webmention-brainstorming#retrying.2Ferror_handling
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KevinMarks_ Twitter for me is showing html but no css
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aaronpk hmm it doesn't
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tantek so I suppose that's up to implementations then
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tantek email keeps trying over days. http fails immediately and doesn't retry.
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tantek (e.g. loading a web page in a browser)
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aaronpk and post requests too
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tantek though some browsers do retry in the case of "no network available" "you appear to be offline"
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snarfed actually bridgy silo api retries follow mostly the same schedule
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snarfed just not as important since bridgy re-polls regularly anyway
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tantek snarfed but presumably not Bridgy Publish
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snarfed no definitely not. tough to do that safely and not surprise users.
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tantek right. users don't expect posting to Twitter to be like sending an email
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tantek what are issues?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Issues
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tantek wow that's old
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gRegorLove tantek: I have some experience with Shopify
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tantek gRegorLove: are any of your Shopify sites online?
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tantek shopify sites hotlink to shopify for their JS and CSS right?
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gRegorLove One was down earlier today (DYN DNS), let me check now.
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gRegorLove It appears to be up currently.
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gRegorLove Yeah, assets are through cdn.shopify.com
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gRegorLove What is Shopify?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Shopify" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove Shopify is a service for selling online https://shopify.com
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Loqi ok
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html
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KevinMarks_ Hm, does someone want to clarify mp-type as my summary is wrong
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sknebel ... and my bouncer rebooting reminds me:
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sknebel PSA: critical kernel patch for linux systems!
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tantek yeah
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bear CVE-2016-5195 -- all of the linux OS vendors have kernel patches in place
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sknebel yeah, I assume everybody running their own server already heard, but just to be sure I thought I'd mention it here
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bear we need to also remind folks that it's a kernel update - so a reboot is required
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@kevinmarks The #indieweb is there for you Roman. https://twitter.com/romanmars/status/789565194540384256 (twitter.com/_/status/789569018440986625)
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GWG Howdy all
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GWG Another fun vulnerability?
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@sandhawke @Matsubue nod nod. Have you seen the indiewebcamp approach? It's deeply that, although very html centric. (twitter.com/_/status/789579494793310208)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html
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tantek oh hey - aaronpk the extra hour bought you time to fix mp-type! it made it in!
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aaronpk \o/
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/789590856227364865/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/789590856227364865)
snarfed, GWG, kants, finchd, rrix, petermolnar, camerongray, comzeradd, chimo, StatelessCat, R2ZER0, eayoungs, matthewtrask, michel_v, daf, renoirb, bttf, ehlovader, g3funk, gko, myfreeweb_, moredhel, __number5__, reidab, cleverdevil, tbrb, seekr, minsky, bear, terminalpixel_, Ruxton, bnvk_, neanias, cuibonobo, jmelesky, XgF, kline, JasonO, dansup, sonicrocketman, gRegorLove, ChrisAldrich, ben_thatmustbeme, sknebel, pindonga, M-mxuribe, M-hotzeplotz, plindner, PFMurph, bergie, Gold, jdcauley, asheesh, lmorchard, Erkan_Yilmaz, rhiaro, KartikPrabhu, acegiak, bjoern, slow, dkm, MylesBraithwaite, wagle, koray, rascul, corenominal, brianloveswords, rektide_, marinintim, raucao, prtksxna, jacus, smcgregor, DanC_, Zegnat, jonnybarnes, emceeaich__, ePirat, zichy, smth[m], voxpelli, kapowaz, mattl, sensiblemn, tommorris, Salt, sbruce, Jeena, anarchivist, cjk101010, Jammy_Stuff, AngeloGladding, tridnguyen, shiflett, KevinMarks_, aaronpk, arlen, thebaer, smth[m]1, M-nd, M-rongladney, halorgium, Kongaloosh, Leeky, Guerillero|BNC and Guest22907 joined the channel
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snarfed wish i could hide the +v voice messages :/
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snarfed do we get any value from the +v thing? seems like it's just a vague non-functional IRC nicety? i wonder if we should turn it back off
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@kevinmarks Does this work as a logo for http://svgur.com http://svgur.com/s/EP #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/789607003496718336)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Does this work as a logo for svgur.com? http://svgur.com/s/EP #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-10-21 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/does-this-work-as-a-logo-for-svgurcom-sep-indieweb
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gRegorLove What IRC client, snarfed? Should be able to hide them. http://wiki.xkcd.com/irc/Hide_join_part_messages
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snarfed gRegorLove: i already hide join/part messages. these are different
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gRegorLove event messages can be hidden too
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snarfed i'd love to! haven't found how yet. i'm on adium
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gRegorLove But yeah, I don't particularly use it. Guess it's nice to at a glance see how many are on irc-people
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gRegorLove !tell funwhilelost I'm down for Seattle IWC
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
pindonga and friedcell joined the channel