#indieweb 2016-11-05

2016-11-05 UTC
KevinMarks, wolftune, snarfed and camerongray joined the channel
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GWG
Heading to the venue
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GWG
Chrisaldrich, where are you?
camerongray and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich]
I'm on the second floor.
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[chrisaldrich]
You may have to get security to let you up if the elevators are locked off.
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GWG
I am still on the light rail
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[chrisaldrich]
Do you have the address?
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TheGillies
Is the name.example domain in an RFC or something or did people just adopt using that?
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aaronpk
.example is reserved like example.com is
tantek, wolftune and KevinMarks joined the channel
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TheGillies
How do you guys determine what your token is on 401 protected posts?
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TheGillies
Do you generate a nonce token when they hit the token request endpoint?
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@altsalt
#TwiceInOneDay #SoParched @Techyizu time to start preparing for my #IndieWeb talk @SeaGL #FLOSS #SpeakerLife… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/794800824102723585
(twitter.com/_/status/794800824102723585)
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tantek
good day #indieweb!
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@webrocker
@jkphl have fun y'all! bummed to miss out, but at least warm and cozy in the new hoodie right now :) //@indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/794822952638443520)
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Loqi
sl007: sknebel left you a message 10 hours, 30 minutes ago: I'll ping you tomorrow morning once I know when I'll be at Mozilla, I'll try to be early so I can help with stuff
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sknebel
any remote people watching?
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Zegnat
sknebel: I am just booting up all my stuff. Will see if I can get the video going :)
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Zegnat
“Please install Flash Player to view this recording” - seriously?
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Zegnat
There is the sound!
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Zegnat
fmarx just wrote his domain
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sknebel
Delay is good then
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Zegnat
Are you all the way in the back? Well hidden ;)
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sknebel
Yeah, arrived way late, missed some intros
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Zegnat
Ah, too bad. I was noting the distinct lack of notes here, haha
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sknebel
Also no power for my laptop and would have to crawl under half the desks, so no live-IRC-ing
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Loqi
hehe
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Zegnat
justonestep.de / Bea / is showing of her website
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Zegnat
Wants to implement IndieAuth this weekend
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sl007
Welcome Zegnat !
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Zegnat
And work on another domain (sideproject) she launched last week
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Zegnat
wireshell.pw
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Zegnat
The other Sebastian is up (hello familiar faces!)
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Zegnat
sebastiangreger.net
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Zegnat
Sebastian is POSSE’ing, and syndicating to Twittr and LinkedIn. Pulling in things through Bridgy. All running on WordPress.
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Zegnat
“Pretty goo at producing spaghetti code”
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Zegnat
Wants to get away from the linear “screen” thinking
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Zegnat
“want to contextualise”
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Zegnat
Wants to talk about opening up the indieweb movement (this was also done during the Brighton one! Keeping the lights on, I think the session was called.)
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Zegnat
Next up is ???
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Zegnat
sl007, sknebel, microphone please!
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Zegnat
treora.com
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sl007
Thanks Zegnat !
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Zegnat
Not on Twitter/Facebook/all the other things
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Zegnat
Thanks!
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sknebel
Name is Gerben
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Zegnat
how to improve browsers to make you more independant on the web
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Zegnat
prototyping his own “web browser kind of thing” - webmemex.org
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Zegnat
“a browser in your browser so you can browse while you browse”
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Zegnat
showing of opening indieweb.org within webmemex
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Zegnat
You create a personal mind-map while browsing, and you can make notes/add links during your browsing session
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Zegnat
note by me: This kinda feels like a research tool, I think KevinMarks_ might like it
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Zegnat
Next up sknebel
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Zegnat
Gerben want to increase his webpresence this weekend
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Zegnat
Loving the sweater ;)
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Zegnat
Posting is still hard to do for sknebel, creating files on the server and running scripts is the current workflow. So his website seems to have 1 post per indiewebcamp so far.
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Zegnat
This is his third indiewebcamp
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Zegnat
Next up Johann (from Mozilla)
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Zegnat
Cups? Can someone pinch me a Mozilla cup?
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Zegnat
Johann references the Mozilla Code of Conduct, good to have reminders about those!
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Zegnat
Hello Joschi ^^
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sknebel
Session planning now
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Zegnat
I can see the left side of the whiteboard
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Zegnat
And German mumbling. Something about when to start.
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Zegnat
Depending on the current xperience level of the crowd, I would recommend doing an intro-to-microformats session, btw. Went down pretty well in Brighton (I thought) and the lack of one was felt in Düsseldorf.
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Zegnat
Of course provided someone can do one.
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Zegnat
Internationalisation! Thanks sl007!
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Zegnat
Hmm, the camera quality is just slightly too low for me to recognise faces :( Is matthiasott the one with no stickers on his laptop?
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Loqi
it'll be okay
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Zegnat
Please don’t scrunch paper next to the microphone
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Zegnat
can literally hear jkphl writing
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Zegnat
sknebel, matthiasott, sgreger, can someone please move the microphone away, or tell joschi to use it?
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Zegnat
sl007 plugging withknown
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sknebel
Zegnat turned it off
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Zegnat
Thanks sknebel!
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Zegnat
Now I will miss out on conversation, but at least my earbuds will not get upset about people writing or pulling of postits ;)
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Zegnat
now understands the value of aaronpk's mics
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Zegnat
Oooh, passing the mic around, also nice! Thank you sl007
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sl007
Zegnat - I know. We will put an order it soon and then I move it in front of the camera …
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sl007
Welcome !
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Zegnat
sgreger would like a session on non-technical people joing the indieweb
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Zegnat
has all the links today
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Zegnat
Interesting idea: linking cozycloud/nextcloud calendars and decentralise services to your website
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Zegnat
(don’t know who was speaking there)
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Zegnat
They are both definitely working
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Zegnat
While I like that the stream isn’t going completely quiet. I still think turning off errant microphones would be a good thing. For future reference.
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@xtof_fr
@nicolas2fr Donne-nous un lien et une description en t'inspirant d'exemples sur le wiki #indieweb https://indieweb.org/Webmention%23IndieWeb_Examples
(twitter.com/_/status/794841594037997568)
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@martijnvdven
@indiewebcamp (@IndieWebCampDE) is on in Berlin, and I am home begrudgingly finishing up work related things.
(twitter.com/_/status/794842024809820160)
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Zegnat
Hahaha
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Loqi
awesome
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Zegnat
is happy to be getting a shout-out :D
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Zegnat
Cool, grabbd a screenshot of the schedule, thanks!
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Zegnat
Apparat on the schedule. That’s sl007’s thing, right?
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sgreger
zegnat: joschi's project
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Zegnat
Aah, I am mixing things up
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Zegnat
You are right, ofcourse, sgreger
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Zegnat
redaktor is sl007’s thing
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Zegnat
is working on the wiki schedule
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sknebel
Oh, OK. Then you do that Zegnat, thank you
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Zegnat
I might not get all the details right from the pictures, but if I can’t readsomething I will add a stub marker
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Zegnat
I had already started with the table ;)
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Zegnat
Wow, that wasn’t English
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matthiasott
So the mics are still working ;)
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Zegnat
We need a hashtag for WordPress Webmention First Step later on!
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Zegnat
https://indieweb.org/2016/Berlin/Schedule is up, sknebel please take a look. I had to improvise some of the hashtags
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sknebel
Zegnat++
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Loqi
zegnat has 23 karma in this channel (25 overall)
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Zegnat
I have also added group photo to the schedule ;)
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voxpelli
Was pubsubhubpub meant to be pubsubhubbub?
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voxpelli
Or are you all going to a pub to discuss PuSH, if so – fair enough ;)
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Zegnat
I just copied from the schedule :p
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Zegnat
Don’t shoot the messenger, voxpelli ;)
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Zegnat
Note for people reading: there are browser extensions to check your rel-me’s. KevinMarks_ made one, and I made one.
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@m_ott
If you set up IndieAuth, you can check your rel=me’s with @kevinmarks’ verify-me https://github.com/indieweb/verify-me #indieweb HT @martijnvdven
(twitter.com/_/status/794851057386029059)
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@m_ott
And @martijnvdven also wrote a spin-off without external dependecies: https://github.com/Zegnat/verify-me-locally #indieweb #indieauth
(twitter.com/_/status/794851378183147520)
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voxpelli
Zegnat: a screenshot would look great in that repo ;)
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Zegnat
Yes. Maybe I will make this my weekend project. Get it into the add-on repos of the different browsers and make the README more user friendly.
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Zegnat
I think aaronpk would appreciate that, as KevinMarks_’ extension hits his server API pretty hard
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voxpelli
reminds me of my https://github.com/voxpelli/gm-othermes/tree/relspider that was pointing towards my identity graph crawler
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voxpelli
Zegnat: do your extensions show rel-me's one step away or more than one step away?
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Zegnat
Only 1 step
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Zegnat
No graphing I am afraid ;)
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Zegnat
I see that jkphl has incorporated Webmention W3C standard in his presentation. Might be interesting to note that tantek is working on a standard for post-type discovery, which includes a hefty bit of microformats: https://www.w3.org/TR/post-type-discovery/
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] Post Type Discovery
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matthiasott
Zegnat: Nice! ?
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@isabelanastasa
Listening for @jkphl explaining the basics of #indieweb at #indiewebcamp Berlin. Very clear intro and how to get started. Thank you!
(twitter.com/_/status/794854105055367168)
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Zegnat
What is happening?
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Loqi
News is where you keep up with the latest news and developments in the IndieWebCamp Community https://indieweb.org/happening
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Zegnat
No more sound, people moving about
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Zegnat
matthiasott?
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Zegnat
Well, there went both the stream and matthiasott :p
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@jkphl
@martijnvdven We need to interrupt because lunch is here and getting cold. Will continue afterwards. :) .@m_ott #indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/794855168965746690)
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@martijnvdven
@jkphl if everyone gets together for lunch, don’t forget the group photo! I actually added that to the schedule ? #indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/794855454497239040)
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Zegnat
Lunch does seem to disrupt the schedule a little. sknebel, can you double check the timestamps on https://indieweb.org/2016/Berlin/Schedule#Saturday_2016-11-05 to make sure they reflect the day?
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sknebel
Will update once I know when lunch is over
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Zegnat
Thank you
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@martijnvdven
What I like the most about #indieweb? The community feeling that makes people shout “hi Martijn” at a camera in Berlin when I am watching.
(twitter.com/_/status/794858838386233344)
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@dhettema
@martijnvdven #indieweb looks like fun, gotta try it
(twitter.com/_/status/794859925897887744)
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@martijnvdven
@dhettema definitely! http://indieweb.org has the info, or ask me. The idea for an #indiewebcamp in Sweden next year is floating around.
(twitter.com/_/status/794860604616019977)
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sknebel
Zegnat, you have some hacking planned for tomorrow?
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Zegnat
Yes. I am working on h-feed demo code, and I would like to get the rel-me-extension deployed so people can actually start using it an filing bugs
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Zegnat
But I also still have to do some actual work-work, so I am unsure how much time I will have :( That’s also why I’m not over there right now
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Loqi
*sniff*
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sknebel
Yeah, I wanted to have way more stuff prepared for tomorrow, but really backlogged with uni stuff
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Zegnat
Nürnberg 2017 will probably be my next IWC
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Zegnat
I basically promised the tollwerk crew that I would be there, so...
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voxpelli
I'll try to do Nürnberg as well, and yeah, that Swedish one, we should maybe get planning Zegnat? ;)
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voxpelli
(Or I should get started planning/discussing with someone)
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sknebel
Ohh, I need more excuses to go to sweden ;)
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sknebel
(IWC with Northern Lights?!)
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Zegnat
Definitely voxpelli!
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Zegnat
The guy who reacted to my tweet that indieweb “looks like fun” might even be able to help with finding sponsors if I can turn him ;)
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Zegnat
sknebel, do you know if there is a stream somewhere?
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sknebel
I think the main room is still cleaning up, i'll check
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Zegnat
thank you!
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matthiasott
Stream should be up and running again
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sknebel
should be online?
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Zegnat
Yes, I have video :)
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Zegnat
No sound as of yet
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Zegnat
I see jkphl has a mic, waiting for sound test ;)
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sgreger
mikes working?
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Zegnat
No sound on my end
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Zegnat
Let me refresh
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sgreger
zegnat: the mikes were off. now it should work
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Zegnat
Now there is sound
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Zegnat
Hello :D
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Zegnat
waves back at joschi ;)
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Zegnat
jkphl “has everything”, haha
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Loqi
nice
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Zegnat
nicolas-bermond.com is demoing IndieWeb WordPress plugins
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Zegnat
Can double IndieAuth do any harm, is the question. I am not 100% sure what plugins would be that, but I see pfefferle’s IndieAuth plugin on screen.
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Zegnat
Interesting for the WP guys: if multiple indieweb plugins are installed, can there be any conflict? GWG?
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Zegnat
Apparently also not 100% clear how webmention.rocks works for people who are not well read in it. How can one quickly test if a webmention plugin is working on ones site? cc. aaronpk
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Zegnat
aaronpk hasn’t reacted yet, jkphl
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matthiasott
We are all having trouble checking the IndieAuth implementation with the form on indiewebify.me
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Zegnat
aaronpk: indiewebify.me seems to have DNS problems, no domains are resolving.
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matthiasott
"we" is Bea, Nicolas, Matthias. Maybe aaronpk needs to look after this?
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Zegnat
My URL doesn’t work either, matthiasott, I just tried
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Zegnat
I am currently looking how quickly I could get a second instance of indiewebify.me online, which would be nice to have
nitot joined the channel
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matthiasott
Same for the other checks like h-card
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Zegnat
Also, joschi might want to show this, if people want homework for tomorrow: https://www.w3.org/TR/post-type-discovery/
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] Post Type Discovery
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Zegnat
jam is your current jam, a song you like. While a scrobble is what you are listening right at that time
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sgreger
small side conversation at the end of the table: the major drawback of getting non-tech ppl onto the indieweb using wordpress is that most themes lack mf support
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Zegnat
sgreger, definitely
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Zegnat
chat.indieweb.org might have been easier to type, and then just click my link ;)
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sgreger
ppl already have their well-designed sites and would like to add webmentions, but it would require knowledge to modify the templates of their theme (too difficult for many), or to change their theme (losing their site's style etc)
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Zegnat
Isn’t GWG working to have webmention-replies just show up as comments? Most themes do support that.
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matthiasott
Zegnat: You're right ?
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Zegnat
I am not really in the WP field. pfefferle and GWG would be better to speak to
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sgreger
we are wondering: one solution could be a WP plugin that leads the user through adding mf to their templates in a click-by-click flow
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Zegnat
That would be interesting
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Zegnat
“no problem” - except for my ears
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Zegnat
Trying to ship microformats with WordPress? Ha! Talk with the crowd here and you will hear how hard it is to get WordPress to ship anything ;)
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Zegnat
Alright, lets see if I can host a copy of indiewebify.me, while aaronpk is still asleep
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Zegnat
There is https://github.com/indieweb/blank-gh-site as a starter for running on github
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Zegnat
Emma Hodge was running her site with that
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Zegnat
voxpelli getting namedropped again when static sites are mentioned ;)
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Zegnat
the voxpelli link: webmention.herokuapp.com
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matthiasott
Here's the link fredericmarx was talking about: https://webmention.herokuapp.com
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fredericmarx
Webmention service for static sites: https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
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@m_ott
If you mark up your content with #microformats, here is a list of post types that you could use: http://indieweb.org/posts #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/794884044886573056)
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Zegnat
Apparently my upload speed sucks here at the new studio :/
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sgreger
big room has now moved on to the next session: indie actions (about implementing like/share/etc buttons in "indie" manner
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voxpelli
if anyone in the big room wants to play around with indie-config for their indie-actions, then one can easily do so with: http://voxpelli.com/demo/indie-config/
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voxpelli
there's also the new API in Chrome which is kind of interesting: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2016/10/navigator-share
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Zegnat
more ASMR, blowing on the mic :p
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Zegnat
Hmm, we need more cross-browser extensions
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Zegnat
is again reminded he should launch his extension
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voxpelli
for indie-actions we can come pretty far using polyfills though
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sgreger
cweiske now showi
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Loqi
[Christian Weiske] web+action:*
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Zegnat
So this is what cweiske looks like :)
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voxpelli
-1 on using web-action-URL:s without the iframe loader, makes fallback impossible + also goes against what web-action: is currently used for
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voxpelli
the idea with the iframe polyfill is to polyfill a setting that the browser could contain itself and to fall back to standard share functionality for all other cases
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voxpelli
this eg. makes it possible to support both indie-config, Chrome's Web Share API and regular good old Twitter share links – all with the same UI element
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voxpelli
Is the iframe hack perfect? No, but it works for prototyping how it could work and then browsers and/or browser extensions could move in and provide more rigid native support
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Zegnat
matthiasott : could you please try out http://indiewebifyme.zegnat.net
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matthiasott1
Works!
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Zegnat
spread it around and use that until aaronpk can fix his then
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Zegnat
Hope that will kickstart some people in Berlin :)
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matthiasott1
I guess so! Great work, thank you very much!
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Zegnat
I think Known is recommending only CSS changes and no actual theme changes, which means the microformats will always stay in place. But I am not 100% sure.
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Zegnat
voxpelli: can web+action links be hidden with the iframe work?
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Zegnat
Because that seems to be the main problem-case being cited: people clicking on them and getting confused
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Zegnat
Didn’t sl007 do work on that too?
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Zegnat
does web extensions from time to time too
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voxpelli
Zegnat: well, clicking is kind of necessary unless you up-front wants to ask for someone's config
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Zegnat
The thing is, the links were removed from a website because people got confused by those (for them) not working web+action protocol
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voxpelli
If no protocol handler is found then it should fail silently
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voxpelli
That's the intended functionality
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Zegnat
So I would run 2 separate share links on every post? One that works for everyone, and one that almost nobody can use?
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voxpelli
If it doesn't fail silently somewhere, then that's a bug or a change in behavior in that browser that maybe needs to be addressed
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voxpelli
No, the config lookup fails and you then fall back to your plan B
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voxpelli
Which is eg Twitter link or something
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[daiyi]
maybe this will be useful for those getting started on their web presence on hack day tomorrow? https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb
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sl007
Zegnat, voxpelli - Have you seen my Brighton demo ? The iframe stuff was shown. Zegnat: If the iframe did NOT detect the protocol it still shows the enter domain ui. Also indieauth for node is 80% ready - please let's keep in contact - I'll try to send code asap
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Zegnat
Aah, see, that was what I was asking about :) Because someone in the room (forgot who) said they removed web+action links from their site because average users were confused by those non-working buttons
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voxpelli
Sounds like a misconfigured setup
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voxpelli
Entire purpose of the iframe hack is to enable fallbacks, as no other solution outside browser support has been found to support that
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Zegnat
So many interesting discussions. voxpelli, we have to make IWC Sweden a thing for sure!
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voxpelli
Just tried my site on my new Android and fallbacks works perfectly there
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Zegnat
Alright, so web+action = definitely not dead
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voxpelli
Just tried tantek's site as well, same there – perfect fallbacks in eg. Android and well-working indie-config in desktop Firefox
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@martijnvdven
Good discussions being had in the main room of #indiewebcamp. But also on the side lines in the IRC channel! https://chat.indieweb.org/2016-10-01%23bottom
(twitter.com/_/status/794894501743644673)
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Zegnat
Grabbing tea, brb'
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Zegnat
I think I can literally hear jkphl’s mouse clicks ;)
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sknebel
turned it off
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Zegnat
I saw, hahah
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Loqi
ahaha
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Zegnat
Did matthiasott just show the chat to jkphl? :p
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@jkphl
I just started a Flickr album to which I'll add some @indiewebcamp Berlin photos soon https://flic.kr/s/aHskGyLPr1 #btconf
(twitter.com/_/status/794898099294576641)
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GWG
Did someone have a WordPress question while I was sleeping?
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sgreger
gwg: plenty of wordpress discussion in berlin today
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GWG
sgreger: There was video, right?
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GWG
I would have gotten up for it, but I wouldn't be able to last then till the end of IWC LA
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Zegnat
It is currently live, no idea how archival footage will be made available
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sgreger
currently mainly hovering around the issue that adding microformats is needed to "join the indieweb", but requires coding skills from users (hard to do by "just installing a plugin", since it is theme specific)
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Zegnat
sgreger, yes, we haven’t gotten past that yet other than with isntalling specific themes or cms (known)
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Zegnat
Or encourage people to learn HTML, e.g. Emma Hodge
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GWG
sgreger: We've had that issue in the past and tried to come up with some things.
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GWG
For example, wordpress-uf2, which tries to dynamically add MF2 regardless of theme needs a refresh
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sgreger
gwg: just looking at some of the documentation from the past (this is off-session, just informal discussion)
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sknebel
Zegnat: does the microphone on the desk work or do we need the hand mike?
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Zegnat
I hear someone now
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Zegnat
On the table was muffled
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Zegnat
I didn’t realise we had started again
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GWG
sgreger: Okay.
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sgreger
i'll try to write up a blog post about all these things in a few days
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Zegnat
GWG: wordpress-uf2 does sound exactly like what was being discussed
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sgreger
zegnat: yes, just looking at that source code right now :)
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Zegnat
Interesting homepage design: http://kottke.org - the latest article first, then a block with several of his latest links, and then it continues with articles
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GWG
sgreger: pfefferle gave me commit access if I ever got to updating it. There have been a lot of developments since last commit.
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Zegnat
sknebel: I think aaronpk actually copied the sparklines from adactio, not the other way around ;)
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sknebel
that's what I said I thought?
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Zegnat
ah, sknebel, I thought you were pointing at the sparklines on aaronpk’s website and saying they would spread around to other websites. So I assumed you were making aaronpk the origin. Sorry if I misunderstood
#
sknebel
maybe I did. kind of sleepy ;)
#
jkphl_
I just started a Flickr album where I will post pictures of the IWC Berlin to soon. So far, there are only the group photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHskGyLPr1
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sl007
jkphl_++
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Loqi
jkphl has 17 karma
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Zegnat
jkphl_ should I add a picture of the stream on my TV? ;)
#
Zegnat
I don’t agree that we are modelled after social networks. I would say we are modelled on pre-social-media blogging sphere. Where replies were often written on your own site.
#
Zegnat
I should not have said that, now the stream died on me
#
Loqi
it is probable
#
sknebel
still down?
#
Zegnat
Refresh seems to have fixed it
#
jkphl_
Zegnat: Sure -- take a picture of your screen and send it to me, I'll happily add it t the album!
#
Zegnat
To qualify as an indieweb-page, it should be in your own control. That is my definition.
#
Zegnat
re sgreger
#
@jkphl
@martijnvdven You could take a picture of me downloading your picture of us ... ;D +@indiewebcamp #inception
(twitter.com/_/status/794904769739575296)
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Zegnat
Did everyone stop talking or did the mics disconnect?
#
@nicolas2fr
@hay_out tu as été ma première #webmention <3 #IndieWebCamp
(twitter.com/_/status/794905338315153408)
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Zegnat
Aah, sound is back!
#
sknebel
sorry, we were thinking
#
Zegnat
hahahaha
#
Loqi
awesome
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Zegnat
what is a registry?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "registry" yet. Would you like to create it?
johannh joined the channel
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Zegnat
I was just testing to see if we had a page on /registry
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sgreger
zegnat: yes, independence is the decisive feature of an indieweb site, not having a feed. everybody in the room seemed to agree on that.
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sknebel
who was it that just shows the last note on the front page?
#
sknebel
I though barnaby, but maybe he changed it
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Zegnat
Only a single note?
#
Zegnat
Uuuhm
#
Zegnat
Nobody comes to mind, sorry, sknebel
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sgreger
sknebel: it was glenn. don't remember the url though
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Zegnat
sgreger: everyone agrees. IndieWebifyMe will also let you score Level 1 without adding a single feed or microformat to your site
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Zegnat
Indeed, only 1 note
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Zegnat
sgreger, actually, I do not even have a feed! http://vanderven.se/martijn/
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven h
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Zegnat
I do have rel-me and I accept webmentions, I just do not post anything there
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Zegnat
sknebel, tanteks old blog is on /log/YEAR
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Zegnat
matthiasott ^
Gerben and jansauer joined the channel
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Zegnat
Another person who has had a personal site for a long time and has old versions still accessible is JSM: e.g. http://v2.jasonsantamaria.com
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aaronpk
Good morning Berlin!
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sknebel
morning aaron!
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Zegnat
Good morning aaronpk!
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Zegnat
We have work for you ;)
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sknebel
and a livestream to watch ;)
#
GWG
aaronpk, someone needs to be a surrogate aaronpk for these events.
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Zegnat
surrogate would not help GWG, IndieWebify.Me apparently broke :(
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aaronpk
what happened to indiewebify.me? It looks up from here
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Zegnat
It is up, but it can’t resolv any domains with curl
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aaronpk
oh dear
#
Zegnat
exactly
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Zegnat
For now there is a copy running on indiewebifyme.zegnat.net (yeey open-source!)
#
aaronpk
I should just move it off of app engine.
#
aaronpk
All the issues I've had with it are because it's on app engine
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GWG
aaronpk, have you considered building a robot aaronpk to handle things while you are sleeping?
#
Zegnat
I have no experience with app engine. What are the pros of running on app engine?
#
Zegnat
GWG, we have that, its called Loqi ;)
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aaronpk
running on app engine means it can't go down when my server goes down
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voxpelli
what does app engine cost?
#
Zegnat
Not free. The rel-me verifier seemed to drive aaronpk’s bill up
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aaronpk
normally it runs in the free tier but that month it was like $15
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voxpelli
could try Heroku then, it costs as well but a fixed fee + can be set up easily to eg. do autodeploys from GitHub + even set up staging sites for every PR
#
voxpelli
ah, Heroku costs $9 for an ordinary month ;)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich]
Good morning campers
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sknebel
morning
#
Zegnat
morning [chrisaldrich]
#
aaronpk
I thought Heroku didn't have a free tier anymore
#
Zegnat
Are we changing session again?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: they do, but it only allows you to run for a certain number of hours a day
#
voxpelli
so I run my micropub endpoint for free, but my webmention endpoint I pay for
#
GWG
Loqi, is aaronpk your father?
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Zegnat
So they charge for time rather than use? Interesting
#
GWG
Good morning, Chrisaldrich. You at the LA venue?
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voxpelli
Zegnat: well, they put your free machines to sleep when they haven't been accessed for a while
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Zegnat
Oh, interesting
sl007 joined the channel
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Zegnat
Oh, right the LA changeover... I am not going to bed tonight, am I?
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voxpelli
great for a micropub endpoint or other webhook thing :)
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sknebel
Zegnat, yes, ext is "indieweb community"
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sknebel
(really need to decrumb my keyboard)
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sknebel
(aaronpk, "indieweb community"/getting less tech-y is interesting for you to watch as well maybe? ;))
mlncn joined the channel
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GWG
Zegnat, sleep on Monday.
jansauer joined the channel
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Zegnat
I will keep watching. I love the community.
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Zegnat
GWG. I think I will skip LA. I still have real work-work to finish :/ Otherwise I would’ve been in Berlin right now
#
aaronpk
I am making breakfast tacos and then I will join :-)
#
GWG
What is real work-work?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "real work-work" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
GWG
aaronpk, I will eagerly watch your website to see what beverage goes with your tacos.
#
Zegnat
real work-work is the work you do for your employer, allowing you to spend free time on the IndieWeb
#
Zegnat
community looks like a popular session
#
GWG
I am waiting for the train. I just missed the last one.
#
Zegnat
Community step 1: get all those people in the room onto /IRC_People ;)
#
sknebel
Zegnat: alternative session got cancelled
#
Zegnat
Sound is live :)
#
@BasementTrix
@threadyblock @neil_h_watson @kevinmarks If a site is hard to read, disable CSS. Still unreadable? Site not worth it. Think about it.
(twitter.com/_/status/794911732296806400)
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Zegnat
lol @ KevinMarks_
sl007 and jkphl_ joined the channel
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Zegnat
“Adds microformats2 classes to your WordPress theme.”
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Zegnat
you do definitely not require microformats to send webmentions. Your webmention just can’t be auto-parsed by the receiver.
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voxpelli
KevinMarks_: css;dr – also called, "reader mode"? ;)
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voxpelli
css;dr seems much more mainstream than js;dr
matthiasott1 joined the channel
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sgreger
gwg, are you tuned in to the stream? wordpress discussion to be expected in this session
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GWG
sgreger, I am on my way to the LA venue. Maybe when I get there.
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GWG
I can't stream and walk.
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Zegnat
Note that you do not need to publish! See http://vanderven.se/martijn/ I do not publish, but I have rel-links and I accept personal web-mentions
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven h
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Zegnat
Indieweb is more about identity than publishing at the core.
sl007 joined the channel
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KevinMarks_
WordPress templates have mf1 hentry so you usually get something for a webmention, just not likes etc.
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voxpelli
Zegnat++, very good point
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Loqi
zegnat has 24 karma in this channel (26 overall)
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Zegnat
So. Are we selling IndieWeb the wrong way by starting people of at indieauth? On the other hand, rel-me is the easiest mark-up. It should maybe not be about indieauth, and just be about centralised identity?
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Zegnat
Th centralised identity lets people validate your other profiles, e.g. with KevinMarks_’ or my extension
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voxpelli
yeah, I don't think indieauth is at all that crucial
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Zegnat
would like to phone in to the discussion :p
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KevinMarks_
Centralised identity is confusing when talking about distribution verification
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voxpelli
Most crucial IndieWeb tech as I see it: Webmention
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KevinMarks_
Personally controlled identity
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sl007
Good morning, chrisaldrich - We send a warm welcome from cold IndieWebCamp Berlin - we can also send greetings live via video if you like, just tell me, see https://indieweb.org/2016/Berlin / Remote ...
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GWG
KevinMarks, themes, templates are something else
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sknebel
Zegnat: I can play IRC-to-speech
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Zegnat
if you want, sknebel. You can start at my note about how I do not publish but still have an indieweb identity ;)
sl007 joined the channel
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Zegnat
subdomains work
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Zegnat
I personally use a directory!
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Zegnat
http://vanderven.se/martijn/ - not even the whole domain
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven h
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Zegnat
https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started does start with getting a personal domain
sl007 joined the channel
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@m_ott
Should you be forced to be running your own server to become part of the #IndieWeb? Really interesting discussion at the @IndieWebCampDE.
(twitter.com/_/status/794920166639497216)
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Zegnat
Hosting is a running problem, discussed often, e.g. https://indieweb.org/2016/Indiehosting
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sl007
soverin.net
[daiyi] joined the channel
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[daiyi]
running your own server is not nomad friendly :disappointed:
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sknebel
[daiyi]: why not?
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sknebel
(given that we are (mostly) not talking about a server under a bed, but somewhere else)
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[daiyi]
where else? in the end you have to trust another entity though?
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sl007
soverin.net was the easy thing for domains / "your own place
#
sl007
on the web" which Gerben showed
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Zegnat
soverin looks interesting, maybe I should see if I can go get a cup of coffee at their offices
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sknebel
[daiyi]: yeah, ok, if you go that far, but I personally worry more e.g. about my domain registrar than the VPS hoster
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[daiyi]
another email thingy: https://protonmail.com/
KevinMarks joined the channel
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[daiyi]
@sknebel oh oops I didn't know how far you were going xD
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aaronpk
yeah the domain registrar and domain identity are far more important than where you actually host at
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aaronpk
you can move your hosting between hosting companies without changing your identity
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Zegnat
I wonder if this discussion is still IndieWeb? While IndieWeb says you should get a domain, it takes a hands-off approach to everything else. It is about distribution over HTTP/S more so than what is behind the HTTP.
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aaronpk
exactly
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aaronpk
also because it's behind http, it turns out we can all make different decisions about how that works, and we can still interoperate
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aaronpk
i think i am watching live now
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jkphl_
aaronpk: Welcome! :)
sl007 joined the channel
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aaronpk
what session is this?
#
Zegnat
community, oddly enough
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sknebel
which got sidetracked from difficulty of getting domains
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jkphl_
aaronpk: however, the focus shifted somewhat during discussion
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sknebel
jkphl_: if you have a good point to direct it back, please do ;)
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Zegnat
Uugh, I do not like three words. Last time I checked their dic is proprietary.
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aaronpk
but..but there is! it's the canonical URL for where that was posted
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Zegnat
I was just gonna say that, aaronpk
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Zegnat
If it is not visible on my own domain, I did not say it
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Zegnat
sgreger, I would love to help you out there
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Zegnat
ping me tomorrow
#
aaronpk
whoever is speaking into the mic sounds great but everyone else is barely audible :)
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Zegnat
they have to remember to pass around the mic, aaronpk
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@m_ott
“Authenticity of information is an important thing when building a decentralized web.“ –@brennannovak on identity at #IndieWebCamp Berlin
(twitter.com/_/status/794924111046864896)
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Zegnat
sgreger, also please help us out with https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started ! That page is the actual onboarding
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aaronpk
i think that's what indiewebify.me is supposed to do! so feel free to use that as a starting point
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jkphl_
aaronpk: we've only got two mics, but like 5 ppl waiting for their slot, so the mics sometimes are not where they should be at that moment ;)
#
aaronpk
jkphl_: it's working out okay :)
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Zegnat
indiewebify.me basically assumes you have a domain and site already online, aaronpk. They are talking about the steps before that.
#
[daiyi]
the getting started page is cool! I think it should use a polish though. perhaps @sgreger has more of a cookbook-style tutorial in mind?
jansauer joined the channel
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KevinMarks
A tutorial for hosting via github pages?
#
jansauer
Is it possible to use indieAuthin a way where i login for the first time with fb/github/... and no homepage and later move the user to his domain.
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Zegnat
jansauer: not really, because IndieAuth is specifically for using “your own domain name to sign in to websites”. - https://indieweb.org/indieauth
#
aaronpk
really? i think /site-deaths would say otherwise
#
jansauer
the point behind this is to use indieAuth for users to create therer IndieWeb Homepage
#
sl007
Zegnat - totally disagree : github yes, fb no (no rel me link)
#
sl007
Explaining:
SvenABischoff joined the channel
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Zegnat
If you do not know code, you can sign-up with Known, and you are done.
#
Zegnat
Actually. When you have known, you can probably sign-in using IndieAuth, right?
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sl007
If user clicks login with github and it has a rel="me" linking back. Discovery is just the same than the other way around.
#
aaronpk
sl007: we haven't really explored the idea of "moving" your identity from one thing to another with indieauth yet.
marcthiele joined the channel
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sl007
The "me" is just a GET parameter. It can be changed anyway and is saying nothing else than this both trust each other and the person acting got the credentials. Off course. This is why I wanted to start it. What does "moving" mean exactly. Should we greet LA in the video?
#
@Digitalkapitaen
Never been exposed to so many new concepts in such a short time. Very inspiring! #indiewebcamp #berlin. https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/794890952360022017
(twitter.com/_/status/794926513636380672)
Gerben and medienlampe joined the channel
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Zegnat
But “what do you need” is something we ask ourselves all the time.
#
Zegnat
Aah, thank you sgreger for noting self dogfooding!
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Zegnat
sgreger++
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Loqi
sgreger has 3 karma
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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aaronpk
sgreger++
#
Loqi
sgreger has 4 karma
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aaronpk
someone mention micropub!
Tantek_ joined the channel
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aaronpk
this is the whole point
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aaronpk
Zegnat: ^^
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Zegnat
I am still working on a FB-cloned interface, that will also work with micropub ... but I agre that we need a UX designer onto micropub clients
sl007 joined the channel
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Zegnat
Hahaha, aaronpk, I wish I was sitting thre :p
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aaronpk
oh i thought you were there lol
#
Loqi
nice
#
aaronpk
sknebel is there
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Tantek_
Outside the IWC LA venue but no sign not sign of anyone
#
aaronpk
suggest that as a project tomorrow to work with designers there
#
Tantek_
ChrisAldrich?
#
aaronpk
sgreger: yes!
#
sgreger
aaronpk: thanks for the reminder
#
KevinMarks_
You can use silo.pub to make a url from a silo, but it's not ideal
#
sknebel
Berlin is closing down. LA, your turn!
#
jkphl_
have fun over in LA, see you tomorrow! _o/
#
sgreger
moving from micropub to a real pub :)
#
Zegnat
It was interesting to watch sessions with a lot of people unfamiliar with IndieWeb tech stack. But sometimes also infuriating, hahahaha
#
aaronpk
realpub++
#
Loqi
realpub has 1 karma
#
sgreger
zegnat: yes, compared to brighton i feel there is a lot more "newcomers", hence these discussions about these topics.
#
Zegnat
sgreger, yes, and its interesting to hear their perspectives. But it also means you do not get someone instantly shouting “there is Quill, a micropub client that will let you post to anything!” ;)
nitot joined the channel
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voxpelli
Zegnat: oh, FB-cloned interface, intriguing :)
#
@jkphl
@martijnvdven Done, thanks! Will add author information later :) +@indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/794930430566944768)
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Zegnat
voxpelli, yes, I really like their mobile interface. The options get out of the way when you want to write text, but when you tap it give quick access to tag your post with all sorts of activities
#
Zegnat
Mine is still a lot more basic, but I am slowly working on it. At the moment I have maybe 1 hour/week to work on personal projects though, so it all stagnates quickly.
#
voxpelli
Zegnat: yeah, been wanting to do a Twitter-cloned interface myself, for mobile
#
sgreger
zegnat: that's where i tried to take the role of a moderator a bit. but i think it is also fruitful to have the discussion diverge a bit, without intervention, as it is the most promising way to collect new ideas and perspectives
#
voxpelli
The silos has great patterns for indieweb clients to mimick
wolftune joined the channel
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Zegnat
The silos have invested thousands of dollars just on the size of the font in the input boxes ;)
#
miklb
good morning!
#
Zegnat
Morning miklb
tantek joined the channel
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miklb
Slack tells me someone mentioned my jekyll-indieweb project. Did anyone have a question?
#
Zegnat
miklb, I am trying to recall ... I think jekyll was touched on a few times, and how to get it connected to the indieweb, but I do not recall spcific questions
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @ChrisAldrich: Getting the last bits set up to start streaming IndieWebCamp LA
(twitter.com/_/status/794936907373416448)
tantek and adactio joined the channel
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Zegnat
Alright, I am bailing out before I get dragged into IWC LA! I need to get my real work-work done so I might do some IndieWeb stuff tomorrow
#
Zegnat
Have a good one, everyone!
#
tantek
getting setup and started at IndieWebCamp LA!
#
aaronpk
this weekend is like a 48-hour indiewebcamp
#
tantek
ChrisAldrich just showed us the "video"
#
aaronpk
berlin just ended for the day and LA is picking up where they left off!
Jeffrey[m] joined the channel
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tantek
Jared of Pivotal is giving us the basics of the space
#
tantek
Thanks Pivotal for hosting IndieWebCamp LA
#
tantek
Pivotal likes to help and encourage open source software
#
Jeffrey[m]
hi all - i'm new, on the way to pivotal and running late - just wanted to give a heads up! - rey.sc
#
tantek
Jeffrey[m]: great! there's a person downstairs that will let you in to come up to the 2nd floor
#
GWG
We have one viewer?
#
GWG
Who is it and how is it?
#
aaronpk
so far so good
#
aaronpk
can't really see the screen
#
aaronpk
but that's okay
#
GWG
But you can hear?
neal1 joined the channel
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tantek
Chris is giving us an introduction
#
Jeffrey[m]
ty tantek
#
tantek
Chris: brief history, Twitter's disappointments, Tantek & Aaron deciding to build for themselves
#
GWG
I thought it was over drinks at a Lounge
#
tantek
Chris: Twitter and FB made it easy to get online, but then they own your identity
#
tantek
Chris: I've signed up for 200+ services and most of those don't exist any more ( /site-deaths )
#
GWG
Chris notes how he loved many services, but they didn't love him back.
#
tantek
Chris: and with them went most of my data
#
tantek
Chris: out of that philosophy, started this movement IndieWeb
#
tantek
Chris: two basic principles: 1 own your domain name, 2 own your data
#
tantek
Chris: you can build your website any way you want
#
tantek
Chris: But with those two things, owning your identity online, you can do anything you want
#
tantek
Chris: Going beyond that, there are some principles that can guide what you do
#
tantek
Chris: creating for people first, working on things for users first
#
GWG
Apparently I'm Chris's hero.
#
tantek
Chris: Thanks to David Shanske for doing some great things too
#
tantek
Chris: Selfdogfooding is a good thing, building for imaginary customers or users may be a waste of time. But if you're hacking and building for yourself, you will use it.
#
tantek
Chris: 3/4 of the data on my website is visible only to me, and I use it like a notebook for myself
#
tantek
Chris: it's like a "common place book", insitutional memory, I kind of use my site like that
#
tantek
Chris: the rest of it is for family & friends, the rest of the world
#
tantek
Chris: (shows home page)
#
tantek
Chris: Our home page has changed a lot in the past 6 months
#
tantek
Chris: with principles, showing what cities are active
#
tantek
Chris: Bunch of cities are active every other week with hacking and getting together at Homebrew Website Club
#
tantek
Chris: There's an online chat going on almost 24h/day people working or hacking on things
#
tantek
Chris: People have been very helpful
#
tantek
Chris: even if you know nothing about the internet
#
tantek
Chris: I've seen people Tantek and Kevin Marks help people setup a domain name and a website
#
GWG
Chris has just compared Tantek to the Supreme Deity and Steve Jobs in the same sentence
#
tantek
Chris: There's been IndieWebCamps around the world in many cities
#
tantek
Chris: This is a multitimezone indiewebcamp this weekend, with Berlin going simultaneously
#
tantek
Chris: What we're going to do this weekend, talk about principles, how things work, handfuls of protocols & formats, projects in nearly every computer language known to man
#
tantek
Chris: We're going to hack on our own website, and hopefully make them a little better
#
tantek
Chris: If you don't have one, we can help you get started
#
tantek
Chris: we'll do some sessions later this afternoon
#
tantek
Chris: We'll do demos so you can see what people's sites look like
#
tantek
Chris: We have this thing called having an itch
#
tantek
Chris: maybe you see something on someone else's website, or facebook or twitter
#
tantek
Chris: you might not know how it works, but you know you want it on your website
#
tantek
Chris: there's a process for teasing it apart
#
tantek
Chris: I start with the wiki
#
tantek
Chris: because usually someone has documented how they made it work, how they post photos or galleries
#
tantek
Chris: maybe you take that as inspiration to do it on your own site
#
tantek
Chris: and then suddenly there's a new way of doing that in the world
#
tantek
Chris: I'm waiting for the day when big corporations will be stealing from us
#
tantek
Chris: throughout the day we'll be talking about the handful of protocols that have come out of this community
#
tantek
Chris: like W3C protocols
nitot joined the channel
#
tantek
Chris: there is a small handful of people here that are having a big impact on the web
#
tantek
Chris: e.g. Twitter has @-mentions, but only works on Twitter
#
tantek
Chris: but you can do Internet-wide @-mentions to people who support this protocol
#
tantek
Chris: that's what the web should be, to be able to communicate from one person on one website to another across the web
#
tantek
Chris: The other one is Micropub
#
tantek
Chris: back in the early days of Twitter there were like 500 clients to read/post to Twitter
#
tantek
Chris: the ability to do that, but with your own website, not exists
#
tantek
s/not/now
#
tantek
Chris: so you can put an endpoint on your website, and post things there from many clients
#
tantek
Chris: one of my favorites is ownyourgram
#
tantek
Chris: Instagram doesn't easily allow you to get your data
#
tantek
Chris: but ownyourgram lets you get that data, it will reformat it a lovely way, and send it via micropub to your website
#
tantek
Chris: you can use the infrastructure that Instagram provides as a posting tool to your website
#
GWG
Reminding all lurkers we are live on Youtube...
#
tantek
Chris: I do the same thing with Foursquare
#
tantek
Chris: someone did the same as ownyourgram but ownyourcheckin
#
tantek
Chris: so all that data, photo, lat long, goes to my site, and I keep and own all that data - that's awesome
#
tantek
Chris: David was saying, someone asked aaronpk where he was, and what he was doing 5 years ago, and he literally just looked up on his own website
#
tantek
Chris: and he could name to the minute and geographical coordinates because he had that data
#
tantek
Chris: There's a code of conduct, and I think it's very impressive that we have one
#
tantek
Chris: essentially a good wifi password can make a good code of conduct
#
tantek
Chris: I particularly love this because of the inclusivity of this, and the kindness. Especially in IRC chat room where things can be misinterpreted
#
tantek
Chris: I showed a 60+ year old friend who has written books on civility this Code of Conduct
#
tantek
Chris: and he said this is not only how the internet should work, but how life should work
#
tantek
Chris: if you have modifications or additions to things like this, it's on a wiki, you can login, change/modify and go from there
#
tantek
GWG: If anybody here has a conduct related problem, you can see ...
#
tantek
Chris: Come see me, for any problems in general, need help, or David as co-organizer
#
tantek
Chris: handful of tools we'll be using
#
tantek
Chris: my guess is there are 7-8 people out there in the ether
#
tantek
Chris: who you don't see but they are present in the IRC chat room
#
tantek
Chris: or they'll be lurking in the wiki and hacking with us on the weekend
#
GWG
If you are in the IRC channel, please raise your hand
nikivi joined the channel
#
tantek
Chris: There's some general chat there (shows https://indieweb.org/irc/today )
#
tantek
Chris: there's also a dev channel (#indieweb-dev)
#
tantek
Chris: general philosophy in the main chat
#
tantek
Chris: the dev channel has the more hardcore coding questions
#
tantek
Chris: there's a few others but they're not used as much
#
tantek
Chris: but I'll mention them because they should be used more often
#
tantek
Chris: there's #microformats. microformats are classes that are added to HTML that add a layer of semantic goodness to what happens on the internet
#
tantek
Chris: like if you write your name on the internet, there's a structure called h-card
#
tantek
Chris: that's a microformat, and there are things under that that say this is my name, my phone number, my address
#
tantek
Chris: so that when other services interact with your web page, they can parse the data on your website and know what your name is, how to interact with your data
#
tantek
Chris: so it's an easy way to markup your data
#
GWG
Chris uses Known and WordPress
#
tantek
Chris: there's also a #bridgy channel, and also a #knownchat channel for those working on and using Withknown.com - built by Ben Werdmülller and Erin Jo Richey
#
tantek
Chris: onto demos!
#
tantek
Chris: as I mentioned earlier, having an identity, and having an h-card
#
tantek
Chris: (shows boffosocko.com)
#
tantek
Chris: it's a bit of variety slanguage
#
tantek
Chris: In Hollywood when someone says your movie did boffo, it means your movie did really well at the box office
#
tantek
Chris: In a muppets movie
#
tantek
Chris: and there's a scene where Kermit says it's going to be boffo, it's going to be socko, and so I went and got the domain name
#
tantek
Chris: I've got a PGP key, email address, even a few things hiding that don't show but if you have a tool that pulls it up you can see it
#
tantek
Chris: my favorite thing is, recently I went to an event
#
tantek
Chris: and a councilman of the city of LA gave me an honor
#
tantek
Chris: I do a lot of work for literacy in the city
#
GWG
Chris: (phone goes off)
#
tantek
Chris: and I posted up a photo of this to Instagram, and my site went out and posted it to my site
#
tantek
Chris: and my site automatically sent this post to FB, Twitter, G+, maybe LinkedIn
#
tantek
Chris: down here there's a syndicated to section
#
tantek
Chris: then it got the biggest response to anything that I got ever
#
tantek
Chris: I logged in the next morning
#
tantek
Chris: Bridgy sent webmentions for all these things back to my website
#
tantek
Chris: and not just seeing the messages, but every like had its own line-item
#
tantek
Chris: hundreds of people liked it on FB, dozens of people wrote short notes
#
tantek
Chris: and it had a visceral impact, more than just seeing the number 557 people liked this
#
tantek
Chris: to me this was way more personal, to see each individual one with a name and face
#
tantek
Chris: to me, part of that process would have been killed on Facebook, because it would have just showed a number, and I never would have seen the names and faces of the people that I know and love say hey I liked this
#
tantek
Chris: this is really a part of what I like about the IndieWeb
#
tantek
Chris: this site runs on WordPrss
#
tantek
*WordPress
#
tantek
Chris: with the IndieWeb Plugin and 4-5 others
#
tantek
GWG is up
#
tantek
GWG: shows david.shanske.com
#
tantek
GWG: this is my website, it's barebones, the name of this theme is bearbones (with an ea)
#
tantek
GWG: there's very little in terms of style
#
tantek
GWG: so you'd focus on everything else
#
tantek
GWG: also a WordPress site
#
tantek
GWG: this is the last thing I posted
#
tantek
GWG: I went to Woodstock
#
tantek
GWG: there's a picture
#
tantek
GWG: One of the things that I've done for a long time in the community is work on IndieWeb plugins for WordPress
#
tantek
GWG: I do most of my testing on an alternate version of the site
#
tantek
GWG: I've added how to make different types or kinds of posts
#
tantek
GWG: If I went to my live site, you won't see as many choices because I don't use them all, but they're there
#
tantek
GWG: the other thing I added is a box so I can react to another article
#
tantek
GWG: any article I happen to be reading it will automatically pull in some data
#
tantek
GWG: when it was updated, summary, publication (if any), and the name
#
tantek
GWG: so I spend a lot of time building tools like that
#
tantek
GWG: when it's all done it shows up on my site
#
tantek
GWG: all the photos, etc. location
#
tantek
GWG: this is one of those link-previews that I have looks like
#
tantek
GWG: I guess that's it and we'll see if I what I build this weekend
#
GWG
He's Tantek and this is his website, tantek.com
#
GWG
Chris has never heard his last name pronounced.
#
GWG
At the end of 2009, he became very frustrated with Twitter
#
GWG
He hated the fail whale.
#
GWG
He started with notes, then added photos, etc.
#
GWG
Anything he posted on his other sites, he now posts on his own.
#
GWG
He can do what he wants, he can keep it minimal
#
GWG
He won't worry if an update of someone else's will break his stuff as he controls it all.
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#
GWG
Putting stuff on your own site may be more powerful than social media. You can push it whereever you want.
#
GWG
He was frustrated because he created a new Twitter account and followed three people and got locked
#
GWG
tantek: Mostly just posts to Twitter using Bridgy
#
GWG
It all started really simple
#
gRegorLove
Good morning, indieweb
#
GWG
It started out as a response to frustration, but now he is FREE!!!
#
GWG
Free at last
#
GWG
Chris mentioned scientific papers, etc.
#
GWG
Chris bringds up Marginalia
#
GWG
Marginalia allows you to comment on specific paragraphs
#
GWG
tantek would like to allow people to link to specific paragraphs on his site as well
#
GWG
This weekend, he encourages people to start small and build
#
GWG
Everything here started small
#
GWG
aaronpk's website wasn't built in a day
#
aaronpk
oh jeez tell me about it
#
tantek
Rachel: my domain name is being held hostage by google
#
tantek
Rachel: mostly I want to listen and learn
#
GWG
Jocelyn produced a site after being encouraged by ChrisAldrich
#
GWG
She wants to look into a newsletter version.
#
tantek
Jocelyn is looking for a way to watch and get notified of when people post
#
tantek
Chris: (shows woodwind.xyz)
#
tantek
Internal Server error!
#
GWG
Demo failed
#
KevinMarks_
Woodwind.xyz was doing that to me yesterday too
#
gRegorLove
One of those viewers is me :)
#
GWG
The other is aaronpk
#
GWG
tantek demonstrates woodwind
#
GWG
We discover he only subscribes to aaronpk and himself
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#
GWG
adactio(Jeremy) is now presenting
#
GWG
Jocelyn.inturnaround.com
#
tantek
then I added boffosocko.com and adactio.com to show more stuff showing up in woodwind
#
tantek
adactio: my name is Jeremy and my website is adactio.com
#
tantek
adactio: I've been blogging for ~15 years
#
tantek
adactio: when I write a blog post I syndicate out to Medium
#
tantek
adactio: a lot of people are blogging on Medium, but what I like to do is give Medium a copy
#
tantek
adactio: this is what we do on the indieweb - POSSE
#
tantek
adactio: I've got a links section also
#
tantek
adactio: I was syndicating it out to Delicious, are they still around?
#
tantek
adactio: I used to use link services, delicious, magnolia but they all end up getting shut down
#
gRegorLove
Heh, yep, Delicious is on like the sixth iteration
#
GWG
Pinboard is still doing well.
#
tantek
adactio: common theme, you put all this energy into another website, and then it gets shutdown
#
tantek
adactio: you spend all this time writing for other sites, only for the data to disappear
#
tantek
adactio: so that's kind of the thing we do, write on your own website, and just send copies to other sites
#
tantek
adactio: I have notes too
#
gRegorLove
What was Pownce?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Pownce" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
tantek
adactio: with photos
#
tantek
adactio: typically I POSSE out to places
#
tantek
gRegorLove maybe ask that in dev or chat?
#
tantek
adactio: e.g. here is a photo on my site, and on Twitter
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#
tantek
and all the likes on my site from Twitter
#
tantek
thanks to Bridgy
#
GWG
Everybody Loves Bridgy
#
tantek
not only do I syndicate out to these places
#
tantek
but when people comment, like etc. I get that back on my site
#
tantek
adactio: I like it when I post an article, and people post comments on their own sites
#
tantek
adactio: I have control over my data, and they have control over their data
#
tantek
adactio: I've been adding incrementally at indiewebcamps, photos, etc.
#
tantek
adactio: that's generally what happens at indiewebcamp, one day we discuss thigns, get ideas, and day 2 we hack things
#
tantek
adactio: like these sparklines, I think I built at IWC Nürnberg
#
tantek
adactio: got some ideas, and what I'm working and hacking
#
tantek
up next: Neal
#
tantek
Neal: this is my website
#
gRegorLove
waves to Neal
#
tantek
Neal: the unfortunately named . wiki-...
#
tantek
Neal: it's a fedwiki, supposed to be like github for notes
#
tantek
Neal: it's an old version, you can copy paste script tags and such
#
tantek
Neal: it's gotten to a point where it takes like 3 seconds to load
#
tantek
Neal: as far as I know it's the longest fedwiki page ever
#
tantek
Neal: today I want to figure out what to do about this
#
tantek
Neal: I can paste javascript straight into the page
#
tantek
Neal: It's kind of nice, you can drag & drop stuff
#
gRegorLove
That's Smallest Federated Wiki?
#
tantek
Neal: this is my personal replacement to Delicious getting shutdown
#
tantek
(discussion about is delicious being resurrected or not)
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#
@IgnaciodeNuevo
@jkphl @indiewebcamp I've been at @os_weekends in the first Meetup. Why not to do a Spanish IndieWebCamp? ?
(twitter.com/_/status/794956384408338432)
#
tantek
Up next: Michael
#
tantek
michael: this is a wordpress site, mostly a premium theme
#
tantek
mikirk.com
#
tantek
michael: my name is Michael Kirk so it's a condensed form
#
tantek
michael: I'm a graphic artist and designer
#
tantek
michael: I used to use uber.com which was a place to do personal art sites and one month it was gone. that's what brings me here
#
tantek
up next: Jeffrey
#
tantek
Jeffrey: Hi I'm Jeffrey, an indiewebcamp newbie. I'm an artist and a web developer too.
#
tantek
jeffrey: all my pages are built with a static site generator, called nana (sp?) in Ruby I think
#
tantek
jeffrey: I have many domain names
#
tantek
jeffrey: like this is my personal backup/archive of everything
#
tantek
jeffrey: like this is my database of drawings
#
tantek
jeffrey: it's a ruby on rails app
#
tantek
jeffrey: it makes thumbnails, I can tag them, how large they are, they are location based. this database has about 4000 records in it
#
tantek
jeffrey: plenty of ways to navigate it, autopilot features
#
tantek
jeffrey: nothing being posted to other sites, I don't trust them.
#
tantek
jeffrey: the other thing I make is a lot of drawing tools
#
tantek
jeffrey: like this is a drawing tool, it draws automatically and you can click No or Paint
#
tantek
jeffrey: I have too many domains and want to figure out a way to do that better
#
tantek
jeffrey: I'm trying to figure out a way to bring my own community into an actual place where people own their information but can still talk to each other
#
tantek
jeffrey: "I am my own silo"
#
GWG
I still say it would make a good t-shirt
#
GWG
What is tanteking?
#
Loqi
Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indieweb.org/tanteking
#
neal1
who owns freenode ?
Mikirk joined the channel
#
tantek
welcome neal1 !
#
gRegorLove
That box is still on indieweb.org/irc/today
#
gRegorLove
It's on the todo list to carry tha tover to chat.indieweb.org btw
marcthiele joined the channel
#
tantek
what is the todo list?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "todo list" yet. Would you like to create it?
rachel joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
What is todo
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "todo" yet. Would you like to create it?
Pierre-O, Jocelyn and rey joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Pretty sure that schedule was copied from something old that wasn't as realistic :)
#
gRegorLove
5 is break for dinner
#
gRegorLove
That's also a generic schedule I copied. Change as needed.
#
aaronpk
that chat session sounds exactly what i've been brainstorming
rey joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
crickets
#
gRegorLove
Screen, can't read it though
ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
I can update the schedule on the wiki if you want
#
gRegorLove
45 minute slots and adding a new slot, right?
#
GWG
Yes
#
gRegorLove
If someone can post a clear picture of the grid I'll get it online.
rey joined the channel
#
Loqi
adactio: gRegorLove left you a message on 2016-09-26 at 8:49pm UTC: FYI your site returned a PHP error when I sent a webmention for a post I deleted (returns 410 Gone). Warning was file_get_contents failed to open my URL https://gregorlove.com/2016/09/2016-09-26-13-36-22/
#
Loqi
adactio: gRegorLove left you a message on 2016-09-26 at 8:52pm UTC: It was a like of https://adactio.com/journal/11246, which I re-posted. Currently both show up there.
#
Loqi
adactio: aaronpk left you a message 1 week ago: when you get a chance, can you add a u-url property to your link posts? Right now, it's using the implied rules and thinks the bookmark-of URL is your post's permalink. See: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadactio.com%2Flinks%2F11408
#
aaronpk
waves to adactio
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#
Asher1
I got to the pivotal building but access to the second floor closed at 11
#
GWG
Asher1: We can come down and get you
#
adactio
aaronpk: So, I don't have a link to my link post's permanent URL on that permanent URL itself (if that makes sense). Same with my journal posts—on the actual post itself, there's no u-url value.
#
GWG
Asher1: Are you still out there?
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Can't read what's in Topanga at 13:00
#
GWG
#IndieWebPress
rey and Pierre-O joined the channel
#
aaronpk
adactio: that makes sense, but maybe you could add the link to your post in the timestamp of the bookmark?
#
aaronpk
the problem is the parsed version thinks the u-url property is the external URL
#
tantek
gRegorLove: Topanga a 13:00 is # IndieWebPress hosted by GWG
#
gRegorLove
Thanks, got it. Schedule page is up to date, incl etherpad links
#
tantek
gRegorLove++ Thank you!!!
#
Loqi
gregorlove has 70 karma in this channel (88 overall)
#
gRegorLove
May have been mentioned already, but definitely remind everyone about DST tonight :)
#
calumryan
adactio: did you get my webmention? (https://calumryan.com/note/368)
#
Loqi
calumryan: miklb left you a message 2 days, 22 hours ago: I'd love to discuss your jekyll sending webmentions workflow and compare notes
#
Loqi
[Calum Ryan] Hope it went well! On a related topic at my last Homebrew I noticed the weather links in your posts are reporting based on the location of where the user is currently, not where you posted from....
#
GWG
adactio is lecturing now
#
GWG
Please hold
#
gRegorLove
GWG: Is it the Real Real Basics session?
#
GWG
Sort of an abbreviated version due to time constraints
rey, friedcell, hs0ucy and matthiasott joined the channel
#
tantek
adactio just gave an excellent Building Blocks introduction section
#
tantek
showed how to setup IndieAuth
#
tantek
and how to check your site with IndieWebify.me
#
tantek
and now we're breaking for lunch!
rey joined the channel
#
aaronpk
speaking of indiewebify.me
#
aaronpk
I was getting tired of dealing with weird appengine errors, so indiewebify.me is now running on the wiki server and we shouldn't have any more weird errors anymore. also it's set up with https.
friedcell joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Does it still auto-deploy?
#
aaronpk
not yet
#
aaronpk
glad i fixed it before adactio used it for the demo :)
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#
[dariusdunlap]
I saw “email” on Tantek’s post of the agenda. I recommend Mailroute.net for Spam processing, and mailserver protection. You point MX records to Mailroute, and tell Mailroute where to deliver the mail. Then tell your server to only accept mail from Mailroute. Very nice, tight setup.
#
aaronpk
gets back to work on pubsub.rocks
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#
ChrisAldrich
Live feed from IndiePress Session at IndieWebCamp LA http://youtu.be/gVQBXIAqAXw
rachel joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Etherpad for list of participants and notes: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/indiewebpress
#
@poke
@webgefrickel @jkphl Wo ist denn das IndieWebCamp heute abend so unterwegs? Ich brauch noch ein bisschen frische Luft ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/794996518658998272)
#
TheGillies
Live feed is a nice touch
#
GWG
We try
#
TheGillies
Everyone is looking at me lol
#
TheGillies
Oh I think camera is near the screen
#
TheGillies
IndieWebDrinkingGame; Take a shot everytime someone says bridgy
#
Loqi
ahaha
#
TheGillies
I never get anything out of conferences because I'm always too distracted writing code to listen to the speaker
#
TheGillies
There was a bit of hyperbole in that statement obviously
#
aaronpk
that's why day 2 of indiewebcamp has no speakers!
#
TheGillies
It's kinda cause and effect. I want to code _because_ the speaker is talking about something cool and then I get distracted as soon as I get clone
#
TheGillies
So I'm good for the first 15 minutes of the talk
#
TheGillies
I git clone*
#
gRegorLove
There can be issues with emoji in mysql databases (WordPress) if the encoding isn't utf8mb4
Tantek-iPad joined the channel
#
Tantek-iPad
.
#
aaronpk
tell me about it
#
TheGillies
What is mb4?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "mb4" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
gRegorLove
(I think somebody was saying something about that in the session.
#
gRegorLove
terminalpixel: utf8mb4 is the mysql encoding name for "full, actual utf8"
#
aaronpk
gRegorLove: i'm actually still having issues with emoji even though everything is utf8mb4
#
gRegorLove
Oops, wrong name. ^^ TheGillies
#
Tantek-iPad
Hello
#
TheGillies
Tantek-iPad: Hello Tantek's iPad
#
aaronpk
i've started making columns BLOBs to avoid it
#
aaronpk
"no really just put these bytes here i'll figure it out later thank you"
#
gRegorLove
There's so many different places the encoding has to be right; it's frustrating.
#
gRegorLove
Table, column, server, client, yada yada
#
TheGillies
The proper solution is to avoid MySQL. I kid.
#
gRegorLove
It's definitely on /database-antipattern :)
#
aaronpk
TheGillies: you're not entirely wrong :P
#
aaronpk
luckily my website stores all the post content in text files so at least i don't have that problem there
#
TheGillies
Storing data in text files? Unheard of! ;P
#
gRegorLove
I think on Dreamhost you have to still make a support request to get utf8mb4. I haven't gone into that yet.
#
gRegorLove
This is getting into -dev talk though
#
TheGillies
I'm making a phoenix indieweb framework right now
#
TheGillies
Just decided I'm going to store everything as html flat files
#
gRegorLove
What's Phoenix?
#
TheGillies
It's the elixir version of Rails
#
GWG
This is really interesting.
#
@nicolas2fr
J'aime une vidéo @YouTube : "Indiewebcamp LA 2016 Topanga Room" à l'adresse https://t.co/xyzTl2VoSp.
(twitter.com/_/status/795001162869211136)
#
gRegorLove
ChrisAldrich: bridgy uses your domain when you sign in to check for backfeed.
#
Loqi
[gRegor Morrill] https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/3951/img_20161027_225613.750x0-is.jpg The Naked and Famous were on fire last night
rey joined the channel
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#
gRegorLove
Session switch time
Hanweir joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
Did what?
rey joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
waves to IndieEmail session
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#
gRegorLove
refuses to woo
#
GWG
gRegorLove: I know you are spoken for
#
ChrisAldrich
gRegorLove++ for wikifying!
#
Loqi
gregorlove has 71 karma in this channel (89 overall)
neal2, KevinMarks and rey joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
What is Feedburner?
#
Loqi
FeedBurner is a service that aggregates feeds and provides analytics to publishers https://indieweb.org/FeedBurner
#
gRegorLove
Feedburner did stats and also made better-formed RSS and Atom from a single feed.
#
gRegorLove
Had email subscriptions too.
#
aaronpk
the /this-week newsletter uses mailchimp to send emails from the RSS feed
#
gRegorLove
Feedburner seems like a likely service Google will axe in the future.
#
gRegorLove
Thankfully when you migrate away from it, they can permanently redirect your feedburner URL to where you specify
#
tantek
does anyone here use Feedburner?
#
gRegorLove
I used it - past tense
#
aaronpk
is this conversation about sending emails from your website?
#
aaronpk
mention mailchimp
#
aaronpk
that's how the indieweb newsletter works
#
tantek
or rather, people subscribing to your website via email
#
aaronpk
that's exactly how it works
#
gRegorLove
IFTTT can probably do RSS to email
#
aaronpk
https://indieweb.org/this-week/feed.xml is where mailchimp gets the data from
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aaronpk
i think that does exist
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aaronpk
ah he shut it down
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gRegorLove
Stream died?
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aaronpk
GWG: where'd the stream go?
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ChrisAldrich
screensaver, we're checking
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GWG
aaronpk: It says it is still going
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ChrisAldrich
stream says it's still up
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GWG
When did it stop?
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aaronpk
30 seconds ago
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GWG
Odd
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GWG
Now?
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GWG
adactio is claiming no one wants to build an email to webmention service
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GWG
Anyone?
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GWG
Bueller?
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gRegorLove
GWG: One exist(ed)
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tantek
what is feedburner?
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Loqi
FeedBurner is a service that aggregates feeds, provides analytics to publishers, caches their feeds, and has an optional email feature to deliver posts as emails to subscribers https://indieweb.org/FeedBurner
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gRegorLove
What was questo?
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Loqi
questo.email was an email-to-webmention bridge that was live from December 2014 through December 2015 https://indieweb.org/questo
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aaronpk
quill has an email-to-micropub service, so if your site sends webmentions when new posts are created from a micropub request then that would do it :)
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gRegorLove
The code is still up on github
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GWG
Is the feed working again?
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GWG
Darn
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gRegorLove
Feed video, no audio here
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aaronpk
oh yeah
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gRegorLove
Refreshed and I've got the stream now
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aaronpk
mine says the stream is over
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gRegorLove
Mine did too. Reloading the page brought it back
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aaronpk
oh there it goes
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aaronpk
are we sure this is live?
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gRegorLove
Good point, hah
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GWG
I'm restarting the stream
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aaronpk
yeah no that's from an hour ago :)
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GWG
New link in a moment
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gRegorLove
I wondered why he said "we'll talk wordpress" haha
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Loqi
hehe
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GWG
This is the same system from last time.. Not sure why it froze
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GWG
yotu.be/KruTRphVCsM
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GWG
Try that
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aaronpk
what the
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gRegorLove
Yeah, that freaked me out for a second.
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aaronpk
oh gosh
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GWG
Sorry about that
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GWG
I hand typed it
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gRegorLove
That was a pain of a tab to get out of.
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GWG
I am trying not to open another window on the streaming laptop
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aaronpk
what is a year in review?
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Loqi
Year in Review is a feature on some silos (like Facebook) as well as being a special kind of article on some indieweb sites that summarizes important aspects of the past year https://indieweb.org/Year_in_Review
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gRegorLove
joeld has experimented with printing out his site
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aaronpk
wonders if anyone would buy his website if he published it in a book format and sold it on amazon
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GWG
aaronpk: I will volunteer to write a review
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aaronpk
hahaha
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GWG
"Tacos for breakfast....tacos for lunch...."
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tantek
what is Calibre?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Calibre" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek
what is an ebook?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ebook" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove
Calibre is a free and open source e-book library management application https://calibre-ebook.com
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aaronpk
amazon has an email-to-kindle service so if your website sends emails with HTML attachments that work on kindle, that ends up working well
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aaronpk
i was subscribing to the /this-week newsletters on my kindle for a while, (before we switched to mailchimp)
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tantek
aaronpk: is there a name for that service
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aaronpk
what is Send to Kindle
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Send to Kindle" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk
Send to Kindle is a service from Amazon that provides an email address and anything sent to that address will be delivered to the Kindle device https://www.amazon.com/gp/sendtokindle/email
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aaronpk
hmm amazon has the concept of publishing "updates" to an ebook
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snarfed
re email/mailing lists <=> blog posts, http://bcc.npdoty.name/
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gRegorLove
tantek: are you getting photos of sessions?
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aaronpk
i kind of like this idea of POSSE to snail mail
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miklb
could send Instagram photos as postcards lol
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aaronpk
if one of my photos gets more than N likes then it gets sent out as a postcard
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@nicolas2fr
Difference between #Centralized #Decentralized #Distributed cc @jkphl #IndieWebCamp BER https://twitter.com/nicolas2fr/status/795018117999194112/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/795018117999194112)
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GWG
Travel with Tantek may be canceled.
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GWG
I'm giving it another two minutes
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tantek
Travel with Tantek was Thursday and Friday
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GWG
tantek: I wasn't there, so I was traveling without Tantek
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aaronpk
I kind of do this on my website
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gRegorLove
Hah "AKA Miss Jocelyn's Home For Particular Posts"
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aaronpk
I guess I mostly do this with tags https://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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aaronpk
I actually want to do more curated feeds too
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aaronpk
this sounds like my old twitter clone!
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aaronpk
i called it "channels" and you could subscribe to particular channels of my content
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aaronpk
and my profile listed the channels I published
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gRegorLove
Known might be worth looking at for its filtering, tantek
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tantek
gRegorLove: really? haven't noticed - if you could maybe show a specific URL or screenshot that demonstrates that
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gRegorLove
werd.io "Filter content" at the top
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snarfed
filtering++
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Loqi
filtering has 1 karma
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tantek
but that's by post type right? not topic?
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gRegorLove
Yeah, but that list could easily be topics
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aaronpk
perks up
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aaronpk
aaronpk.com
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: hope no one is minding my typing into the etherpad as KP
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Demoed my #micropub app for #pebble which I've been using to track food & drink on my website. #indiewebcamp https://aaronparecki.com/2014/10/12/13/photo.jpeg
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gRegorLove
Not at all, KartikPrabhu
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gRegorLove
List yourself as remote in the participants
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gRegorLove
What is Teacup?
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Loqi
Teacup is a Micropub client for posting various types of food posts to any server supporting Micropub https://indieweb.org/Teacup
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aaronpk
refresh
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gRegorLove
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 435 karma in this channel (1131 overall)
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Is this image because it couldn't get a screenshot? https://aaronparecki.com/2016/11/05/5/
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aaronpk
haha what
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Loqi
rofl
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gRegorLove
"only" since 2008
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GWG
aaronpk: Go to bed
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aaronpk
my sleep from last night hasn't synced yet!
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: i think that's because blogger is js;dr
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KartikPrabhu
yeah their "dynamic template" stuff is js;dr. Prompted me to drop Blogger
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gRegorLove
Wow, Netflix blog is on blogger??
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KartikPrabhu
looks like it
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gRegorLove
Someone should tell them the new hotness is to blog on medium.com ;)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: that netflix blog post is on the old Blogger template so not js;dr
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KartikPrabhu
works with JS off on my side
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aaronpk
i'm using benwerd's screenshot api
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aaronpk
instagram -> my website -> sometimes twitter
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aaronpk
(re: where I post photos)
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@koehr_in
@sophiemarshUK Hey, how are your blog experiments going? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/795026699821916160)
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aaronpk
ooh this is something i've been thinking about a lot lately
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aaronpk
notice the new "sticky" things I have on my home page now
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tantek
smooth segue to Reading Workflow session
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tantek
from publisher - and wondering about top level coarse grouping/categorization of posts for different audiences
DanC_ joined the channel
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tantek
to being a member of that audience, reading a site
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gRegorLove
Can someone drop a link to what ChrisAldrich is demoing?
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GWG
Oops
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TheGillies
Is there a test webmention article that I can spam with webmentions?
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aaronpk
pick any of those
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aaronpk
the webmentions will show up at the top in realtime too :)
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aaronpk
webmention.rocks doesn't support private webmentions yet tho
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TheGillies
aaronpk: Do any of them support private webmentions?
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TheGillies
That's what I'm testing
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TheGillies
bollocks
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aaronpk
ah well i will make you a post on my site you can spam then
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TheGillies
just read your message
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tantek
maybe for testing dev stuff #indieweb-dev would be better?
#
tantek
ChrisAldrich is very thorough about what he reads (books), and posts commentary along the way
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TheGillies
TIL #indieweb-dev
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gRegorLove
tantek: URL you're referencing?
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GWG
tantek.com/2016/272/t1/finished-first-fifteen-lives-harry-august
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tantek
search results for "Harry August" on my site:tantek.com
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gRegorLove
No results
<