#indieweb 2016-12-19

2016-12-19 UTC
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Loqi [indieweb] "RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-12-19 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/
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@ChrisAldrich RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ (twitter.com/_/status/810639344826482692)
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KartikPrabhu !tell ChrisAldrich: your posts keep on automatically refreshing
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Now accepting new users on OwnYourGram again! OwnYourGram has been pretty stable since the major refactor this summer, so I just enabled new user registration again! Once you log in with IndieAuth and verify your Instagram account, you'll be able to run a test post to test that your Micropub endpoint accepts photos, and then it will enable your account. I also improved the documentation and text in the interface. Have fun!" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/18/15/ownyourgram
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miklb no link Loqi?
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aaronpk i think i broke loqi with the newlines
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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sknebel good morning Zegnat!
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sknebel miklb: what issues would you want to solve? If I had to guess you are after an easier way to update HWC data?
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@mrkrndvs @IaninSheffield I think that #indieweb has so much to offer you http://readwriterespond.com/?s=Bridgy&submit=Search (twitter.com/_/status/810782872013447172)
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petermolnar any CSS gurus around?
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@mrkrndvs @IaninSheffield for you, #indieweb offers a means of connecting the convo on Twitter assoc w/ various posts. Only you can ans why 4u thou (twitter.com/_/status/810791532634570752)
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Zegnat petermolnar: I used to do a lot of CSS, but I haven't really kept up. What's the issue?
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Zegnat (Take it to -dev?)
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petermolnar k
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j4y_funabashi morning
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mars Hi I'm really just testing the water but feel there might be something in this IndieWeb stuff. First up can anyone suggest why my email address won't validate on indieweb.org. Can send email to myself okay but site says PHP error of sorts.
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mars On https://indieweb.org/Special:Preferences
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mars The upon send confirmation email, site responds: IndieWeb could not send your confirmation mail. Please check your e-mail address for invalid characters.
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mars Mailer returned: Unknown error in PHP's mail() function
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mars But my email address works when sending email to myself in ThunderBird
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sknebel mars: I'm not even sure if the wiki supports email
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sknebel oh, and welcome!
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mars sknebel the wiki has a preferences page to enter your email address https://indieweb.org/Special:Preferences
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petermolnar mars what is the email?
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Jeena I'm giving my IndieWeb-talk tomorrow for the third time, this time at work in our biweekly 'sharing is caring' event in our team (around 10 people)
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: can you confirm venue for HWC Göteborg 2016-12-14? https://indieweb.org/events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Deep linking with fragmentions" https://adactio.com/journal/11632 (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/19/3/)
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miklb sknebel I've just seen several comments regarding the homepage/sidebar/events should be more automated/easier to keep up with, so wondered if that idea had been floated out there again
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Dumbpersoninwhol Is this something related to india
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Dumbpersoninwhol ?
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ben_thatmustbeme no, https://indieweb.org
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dansup lol
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Zegnat !tell Jeena is HWC Göteborg happening 12-28? I would consider coming down for that.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk can I retroactively add posting reviews as my 2017-01-01 commitment?
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tantek hahaha I think that's not quite the intent ;)
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk i knowwwww
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aaronpk it was just a much bigger project than expected, and yet also smaller than what it'll take to own my checkins
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tantek aaronpk - I say put it down as a "bonus" that you achieved in addition to your 2017-01-01 commitments
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tantek that's reasonable, and what people have done in the past when they've exceeded their commitments
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Zegnat The commitments are for things you finish before that date, right? Maybe I should start a page for 2020-01-01
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aaronpk lol
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ben_thatmustbeme gnu social was quite parsable for h-entry and h-card, had tested it out at the time https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/6/16/1/
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] Thats what webmention is for, yes. Right now its slightly different as the syndicated copies don't know about the original. Also no feedback of comments. Hoping that fix gets pulled in soon and people start to use the plugin. There are already pl...
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry, random other convo
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aaronpk pushed some more updates to quill!
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sknebel miklb as aaron said it hasn't come up again, but I noticed the comments about events as well and quite a few people would probably be happy about a solution for that, whatever tools it involves
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sknebel (as in, I wouldn't start with "let's use jekyll for that", but with a design of what you want it to do)
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aaronpk for now, keep adding thoughts to https://indieweb.org/events#Brainstorming
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tantek event sites are hard, especially ones that take into account any particular community's needs
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tantek and yeah, just changing the plumbing has pretty much no positive (likely more negative) effect on usability
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tantek (as in "let's use jekyll for that")
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tantek also anyone who is going to volunteer to build a new system should also volunteer to maintain it, otherwise it's just trading one (known) maintenance tax (updating multiple places in the wiki, annoying, but simple/easy that anyone can do it), for another (unkown) maintenance tax (updating/fixing software, likely much harder, means it doesn't get done)
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miklb I think the idea behind using jekyll is that it could be put on GitHub pages and provide a simple web interface for creating/editing, not because it's a static page tool
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miklb and I was just asking a question, not advocating or volunteering to head anything up
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tantek just pointing that out as it seems far too often that folks (devs especially) only see the "time to code it and getting working cost" and assume it will be self-maintaining or something
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tantek "provide a simple web interface for creating/editing" <--- no events system has this
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tantek so assuming you (or anyone) could provide it is a bad assumption
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aaronpk not to start an actual debate about this, but the "simple web interface" benefit of jekyll is actually more complicated than the current wiki which is also a web interface
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tantek basically, if all you're doing is replacing wiki markup with markdown, it's not a benefit
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aaronpk mediawiki: wiki syntax + mediawiki templates. jekyll: markdown + yaml blocks and includes. they're not actually that different.
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tantek "learning one more system" = worse overal UX
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tantek lastly, I'm kinda biased to offhandedly reject any such (event system) proposal by anyone who hasn't at least *tried* actively updating / creating events on indieweb.org so that they have some direct first-person understanding of the needs of the community
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tantek because without that first-hand knowledge, any such proposal is likely ignorant of the community's actual needs
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tantek also not buying the "I won't use the existing system because I hate wikis" argument either, as absence of use of a current system provides no evidence that any new system would gain any use at all
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tantek (just reiterating arguments I've heard)
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aaronpk i'm going to go out on a limb and say that anything any of us want to build to replace the wiki events has to start out with UI/UX sketches, no code at all.
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tantek I'd agree with that
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tantek and frankly, group events software is so much harder / more complex than indie events support (likely a superset of), that that would be a likely pre-req as well
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aaronpk eep. two weeks til the end of the year.
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tantek goes to wikify the events brainstorming above
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aaronpk awesome
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tantek has anyone posted "safety status" type posts on their own site? https://indieweb.org/safety_status
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Zegnat I am wondering if I should only post the reactionary. But how can I have people request my safety status? And how do I make sure to reply to them timely?
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tantek Zegnat, great questions
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tantek you might be able to find plain text queries for that sort of thing on Twitter
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tantek like hey @-someone, are you ok?
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tantek or are you ok in Berlin?
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tantek that kind of thing
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tantek I'm hypothesizing, can't recall any specific examples
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Zegnat That would boil down to “receiving a webmention” though. While I imagine my grandmother would rather just press a button
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bear my vision of that would be a post that is tagged as part of a well-known feed - then anyone can subscribe to it or view an aggregation page for it
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bear tag:safety-check published:20161219T110000
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Zegnat Would you just post to that continuously, bear? E.g. every half hour?
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tantek maybe use a pinned post?
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bear no, that would violate my own rules for not being tracked
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bear I could see it being used as the basis for a last-seen post tho - I think that is what you meant
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Zegnat I don’t really want to make my own tracking public either. So I would only want to tell people I am fine, when they are actually wondering.
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Zegnat But I don’t know when people will be wondering.
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bear if the only thing being pushed is a "last know activity" type item - I could see that being useful
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bear or rather "time of last known activity"
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Zegnat I.e. should sknebel post a safety note now, because he is only 25 minutes outside of Berlin? There is no reason for me to think he was visiting the christmas market, but he might have been. Or should I have a way of asking him to post a safety note?
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bear that's the issue, IMO, with these things -- I think things like "I don't need to post because I'm not near that city" where as my friends from the EU are going "OMG he may have been involved" because they don't grok that 30 minutes away is huge
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tantek bear, yeah, a kind of hearbeat
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tantek *heartbeat
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tantek takes some screenshots
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bear I could see this being tied to a geo fence solution also - filter the location of the heartbeat/status to be not precise
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Zegnat I like Google’s Open Location Codes for imprecise location reporting. Just dropping characters from the end will basically “zoom out” your location.
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bear oh, hadn't seen that before
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Zegnat So that could be used as a heartbeat of showing where abouts in the world you are currently at
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Zegnat http://openlocationcode.com/
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aaronpk google has a version of that? I thought that was called Geohash
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bear http://openlocationcode.com/
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aaronpk huh it appears to be slightly different
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Zegnat Geohashes have to be complete, or so it seems from skimming Wikipedia. Open Location Codes grow more precise the more characters you add.
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aaronpk that's exactly how geohashes work
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Zegnat Ah, then I miss-skimmed the wiki article
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Zegnat notes down geohashes as another possibility for higher-privacy location reporting
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aaronpk http://geohash.org/c20fcjjv7 "Hint: characters may be removed from the end of the geohash to make it shorter, but gradually less precise."
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Zegnat aaronpk: Geohash compared to Open Location Code https://github.com/google/open-location-code/wiki/Evaluation-of-Location-Encoding-Systems#geohash
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Zegnat Google seems to have put some real thought into this. And the algorithm has been well documented, which I like
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aaronpk nice
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Zegnat I am going to give this safety thing anothr good thought while I sleep.
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Zegnat Goog night all!
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tantek Zegnat: what Google’s Open Location Codes?
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Zegnat http://openlocationcode.com/
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tantek sounds like what people call geohashes
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tantek Google did not invent the concept
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Zegnat they did not
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Zegnat they still look good, and lots of thought went into it. E.g. geohash compared to open location code: https://github.com/google/open-location-code/wiki/Evaluation-of-Location-Encoding-Systems#geohash
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tantek figures they would make up their own
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tantek there are some clever aspects of this and some dumb. the "drop from the beginning" is pure dumb, not how numbers work, and unintuitive
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tantek every other solution to this I have seen drops chars from the end
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tantek which makes much more sense
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Zegnat You drop from the end to lose precision
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Zegnat You can exchange characters at the start for things like country name and place name
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Zegnat should head to bed
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tantek sigh .codes
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Zegnat Will catch up on this talk tomorrow.
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tantek are you fricking kidding
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tantek so far their demo site asked me for my geolocation several times
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aaronpk yeah that was annoying
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aaronpk the "drop from the beginning" is clever, since it's what people do when describing locations anyway
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aaronpk I don't say "US, Oregon, Portland, Hollywood neighborhood" I just say "Hollywood neighborhood" when talking with someone who lives in Portland
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tantek ok the demo site sucks. back button doesn't work properly. URL changes but mapview does not
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tantek lame
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tantek I wonder why they went to such lengths to avoid things that look like words
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tantek "The codes aren't case sensitive" - yeah that's making me consider additional base60 and base64 encodings
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tantek (beyond newbase60 and newbase64)
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GWG Looks like a busy day around here
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tantek This is unnecessary: "don't include easily confused characters", you simply pick one to map all confusing sets of characters to.
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tantek (which both newbase60 and 64 do)
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tantek this seems unnecessary: "We've selected the characters to make it difficult to impossible to spell words in any language."
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aaronpk i believe avoiding words was to avoid potential profanity or otherwise offensive things
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tantek that sounds like default social-conservative design and I tend to reject that sort of thing
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aaronpk i dunno, I wouldn't really want my address to be 99BUTTS
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tantek if you try to consider "potential profanity or otherwise offensive things" across all languages and cultures, you're gonna have a bad time
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tantek lol
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tantek aaronpk: I think such humor would actually be a feature that would cause uptake
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GWG aaronpk, I hate to interrupt but thank you
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tantek hasn't checked to see if any such octalgeo words go anywhere interesting
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 by Charles ☕ Stanhope" by Charles ☕ Stanhope on 2016-12-19 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/#comment-33282
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 by Jeanie Aldrich" by Jeanie Aldrich on 2016-12-19 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/#comment-33280
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GWG I really need to push permalinks for comments in WordPress
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GWG Pretty much every time Loqi does that.
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