#indieweb 2016-12-20

2016-12-20 UTC
aegibsonme, wolftune, nitot, snarfed, tantek and friedcell joined the channel
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aaronpk whoa, does twitter not t.co *every* URL in tweets?
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tantek pretty sure it does - want to show an exception?
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aaronpk ohhh nvm haha i have a chrome extension that's replacing them
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tantek lol
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk totally forgot about that. maybe i should disable that to speed up chrome
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KevinMarks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13212465
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KevinMarks Oh, already discussed in #indiechat
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tantek yep
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tantek didn't realize asp.net was still a thing
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tantek js;dr << https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13212465
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Loqi ok, I added "https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13212465" to the "See Also" section of /js;dr
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aaronpk heh
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tantek heh: "In other cases, like my personal blog, I use Jekyll to generate a bunch of static HTML and, essentially cache all this on Github pages."
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tantek winner: " Ummm... The page you are looking at is server-side rendered. "
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KevinMarks The "use WordPress but add react" reply is also amusing
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GWG Did someone say WordPress?
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KevinMarks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13213095
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bignose what is js;dr
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Loqi js;dr is JavaScript required; Didn’t Read https://indieweb.org/js;dr
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aaronpk this isn't quite enough code to justify its own repo or project, so thought I'd post it as a gist: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/786c84682056bcbb5ebdd3d4932d9199
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snarfed aaronpk++ that's what i use a "misc" repo for. https://github.com/snarfed/misc
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Loqi aaronpk has 442 karma in this channel (1154 overall)
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aaronpk ah nice
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aaronpk wow that's quite a collection
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aaronpk good idea. i have a bunch of stuff i could throw into a repo like that
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bignose aaronpk: are you implying that <URL: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-nan> is not enough code to justify its own project?
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aaronpk heh
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bignose #JSDontNeedNoSteekingStandardLibrary
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tantek snarfed++ that's an amazing grabbag
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Loqi snarfed has 244 karma in this channel (248 overall)
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tantek snarfed, would you consider CC0 instead of "public domain"? it formalizes it a bit better for international re-use
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tantek (CC0 is the closest to "international public domain")
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tantek considers filing a pull request
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snarfed tantek: yeah, i've done that on a few repos
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snarfed in practice i tend to wait until someone has a concrete need for it
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tantek heh
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tantek aaronpk, what about rel=canonical in link headers?
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aaronpk i should probably add that, but I probably won't until I see some links that fail without it
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tantek hops over to #indieweb-dev
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Loqi it is probable
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snarfed hi rhiaro! saw your bridgy bug. looks like your twitter profile didn't have a link to your site when you last logged in. see https://brid.gy/twitter/rhiaro . try logging into bridgy w/twitter again?
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rhiaro Hey snarfed! I reauthed just now
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rhiaro My twitter profile has never not had a link to my site
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rhiaro I've tried re-logging in a couple times, it still doesn't find it
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snarfed hmm ok
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rhiaro snarfed: The error was 'no valid URL'.. what is bridgy's definition of 'valid'? I had a quick look but couldn't find code that might be checking the URLs it finds in profiles
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snarfed rhiaro: i'm debugging now. more when i know it
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rhiaro :D Thanks
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snarfed rhiaro: aha, got it. bridgy doesn't do content negotation, so your site gives it Content-Type: application/ld+json, which it doesn't support
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rhiaro I thought it might be that. But my webmention endpoint is in the HTTP Header, so it shouldn't care about the content type at all
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rhiaro Everyone seems to check the content type even when they're not using the content :s
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snarfed heh, understood
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rhiaro My reasoning for defaulting to JSON if no Accept header is sent is that HTML is for humans, humans use browsers, and browsers send Accept headers. So I assume scripts tend to want JSON, and if they don't they will send an Accept header for something different
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snarfed rhiaro: in practice people may be less sophisticated about HTTP than you. :P not much code outside of browsers does content negotation, so many people writing it would be surprised to get different content types in their browser vs their code or curl
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rhiaro If bridgy either sent an Accept header or didn't drop it on the floor without checking the HTTP Headers first it would be okay. Would either of those be reasonable to add?
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snarfed you're still right! but here we are.
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snarfed definitely, both reasonable.
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rhiaro If you can point me to the right part of the code, I mgiht be able to PR
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snarfed np, i'm happy to. thanks for reporting!
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rhiaro Thanks for being so responsive!
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rhiaro snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 245 karma in this channel (249 overall)
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Jeena !tell Zegnat Sadly no, I'm on vaccation in Germany then.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Jeena: Zegnat left you a message 14 hours, 39 minutes ago: is HWC Göteborg happening 12-28? I would consider coming down for that.
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Zegnat That's too bad Jeena. It makes no sense for me to take over organising either, too far from home for that
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Loqi Zegnat: Jeena left you a message 6 minutes ago: Sadly no, I'm on vaccation in Germany then.
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Jeena Yeah and during the vaccations not many people will come either I think
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Zegnat I could set one up in Åmål, if you know of anyone willing to travel all the way up there ;)
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Jeena hehe
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sknebel good morning everybody!
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sknebel reading the logs, last activity as safety-indicator has risks if it is too fine-granular -> you probably want quick updates, but no logged activity for a few hours could easily happen naturally
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Zegnat Morning sknebel
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Zegnat Yes, that's why I feel like a request-answer structure is better. But that has the risk of someone asking you when you are without internet
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sknebel facebooks implementation also only works as a positive signal. no news is no news, not necessarily bad news
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sknebel and I don't think that can be changed, implanted satellite uplinks maybe excepted
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cweiske wtf. http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ reloads every 10 seconds
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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cweiske resetting my scroll position
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Zegnat Does that for me too
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Zegnat Disabling JS doesn't seem to fix it for me :o
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cweiske <META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" CONTENT="10;URL=http://boffosocko.com/?p=55680751">
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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cweiske I wonder why loqi shows the image url
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Zegnat Just spotted that same line, cweiske. Wonder why Chris is doing that
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Zegnat That URL is his canonical URL. So I guess it is to redirect everyone to the canonical one?
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cweiske ANNOY ALL THE USERS!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4kv7mtYp.jpg
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Zegnat <link rel="canonical" href="http://boffosocko.com/?p=55680751" />
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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cweiske what if I reloaded my page every 10 seconds?
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4kv11T9J.jpg
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cweiske increase page views :)
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Zegnat So he refreshes to the canonical page (http://boffosocko.com/?p=55680751) which redirects to the fancy "SEO" URL (http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/) which then refreshes again...
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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sknebel I don't get why Loqi shows the image URL... markup seems fine to me, no image accidentially included in the title or anything
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Loqi i don't get why loqi shows the image url... markup seems fine to me
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sknebel (oh, Loqis "or" replies support lists as well?)
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sknebel !tell aaronpk Loqi includes the avatar URL in the preview of http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ , we wonder why
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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cweiske loqi is closed source software that's documented by users that discover features by trial and error
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cweiske that sucks
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sknebel ;)
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@indiescripter Good article from 2015 by @webireland. The social media "dopamine retweet" bit is spot on. #indieweb http://www.webdistortion.com/2015/05/11/living-the-indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/811172618237714432)
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@indiescripter Thanks for writing that article, @gjhead. Kinda resonated with me even as just getting into #indieweb http://www.jasonhead.com/early-indie-web-thoughts/ (twitter.com/_/status/811175731715665920)
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@indiescripter @benwerd Wow, that's a heck of a lot of spam in your "Rainy Day" post (when click on stars). Need fix for #indieweb. http://werd.io (twitter.com/_/status/811183412232888320)
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indiescripter petermolnar what's your CSS question (from yesterday)?
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petermolnar that is fixed
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petermolnar it was an unexpected ff config on my side
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indiescripter cool
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indiescripter petermolnar also from yesterday (I was logged on as mars) and had some trouble with email preference on indieweb.org. You asked my email. It's connect@indiescripter.com
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indiescripter petermolnar On https://indieweb.org/Special:ConfirmEmail it comes back with IndieWeb could not send your confirmation mail. Please check your e-mail address for invalid characters.
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indiescripter Mailer returned: Unknown error in PHP's mail() function
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sknebel indiescripter: I think the wiki just doesn't have e-mail support. as in, it is not configured on the server
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sknebel !tell aaronpk the wiki throws errors when a user tries to add an e-mail address to their settings, is that "intentional" (as in, not configured) or a supposed to work and thus a bug?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel (don't know why I didn't think of just asking yesterday...)
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sknebel (aaron maintains the server the wiki runs on, so he should know ;))
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indiescripter sknebel Loqi thanks for taking notice. Sounds like I'm not missing out on anything though.
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sknebel don't think so, I think e-mail is only used in mediawiki for subscribing to page updates
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indiescripter Anyway group, may I take this opportunity to introduce myself, Justin Johansson. Just getting started on this indie journery. indieweb.org site suggested checkout IRC for where to go next.
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sknebel Welcome!
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sknebel I see you already have a site started
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indiescripter sknebel thanks. background .. met someone on Twitter who never programmed let alone knew Haskell. Went on to write a book about Haskell while learning how to program and the language at the same time. Me .. 30 years software career .. know nothing of indieweb though .. looking for something new to do so may as well become an "IndieScripter".
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sknebel What do you use to power your site? Any system behind it, or handwritten HTML for now?
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indiescripter sknebel So like that Haskell book author, possibly I could become good at indieweb if i really put my mind to it.
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indiescripter selfdogfood
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indiescripter static site generator hacked up in TypeScript over a few days
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indiescripter take a sneak peek at (few) pages on http://indiescripter.com . Towards top of righthand side there is "View Markdown" which gives insight into my simple page content model.
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indiescripter sknebel Ok so it's nothing awesome but at least a start. Next step (I think) is to actually write a few real articles. Mention on Twitter and then somehow, don't know how, get comments posted on Twitter reflected back into article page on my site. For this last bit of the puzzle I have absolutely no idea how just right now.
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sknebel Yes, the writing real articles thing is important ;)
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sknebel I'm guilty of spending to much time on tech and not enough on actually using my site as well
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indiescripter What's your site?
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sknebel for backfeeding comments from twitter, the most common solution used here is implementing webmentions and then use bridgy, which translates twitter to webmention
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sknebel https://www.svenknebel.de
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sknebel what is bridgy?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
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sknebel what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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indiescripter thanks that all sounds awesome. btw I've read W3C https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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sknebel yeah, it's a standard now as well. the wiki has more documentation of use cases and existing tools
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indiescripter Unfortunately people I'm on Australia time and 1.00 am now so it's goodnight till next time. Have a great day. Justin Johanssonr day
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Loqi sleep tight!
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sknebel good night!
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indiescripter Thanks.
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@tuxerware @jeena doing #indieweb introduction at work https://twitter.com/tuxerware/status/811206405327847424/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/811206405327847424)
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sknebel (just tried it out of curiousity, php-mf2 does accept data-urls for photos)
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sknebel (since somebody wondered yesterday)
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petermolnar that somebody was me
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petermolnar and that's impressive
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Zegnat Most parsers also seemed to pick-up on u-tel correctly, even though most examples talk of p-tel. That's the beauty of generalised parsers, they just need to take the data and fill properties.
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sknebel right, there probably isn't much validation of URLs, so as long as it is in a property that's supposed to contain a URL it'll work
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Zegnat I think u-* only specifies to look in the href/src attribute and take the value there. I am not sure it actually specifies it has to be a valid URI
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Zegnat "special parsing required: prefer a/href, img/src, object/data etc. attributes to element contents." -- http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#naming_conventions_for_generic_parsing
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Loqi microformats2
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sknebel "if there is a gotten value, return the normalized absolute URL of it, following the containing document's language's rules for resolving relative URLs " on http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property implies some interpretation
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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tantek good morning #indieweb
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PFMurph helo
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KevinMarks_ !tell webscripter webmention.herokuapp.com is one way to get your responses on a static page
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, trying to think up some things i can do with google home + indieweb
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Owning my old Delicious Bookmarks… Sadly not today. by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-12-20 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/13/owning-my-old-delicious-bookmarks-sadly-not-today/#comment-33294
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ben_thatmustbeme "ok google post to my site." "what would you like to post?" "a note" "what would you like it to say?" "Wow the house is cold this morning" "ok, <reads back>. Is this correct?" "yes" "Your note has been posted"
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ben_thatmustbeme that would be neat
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sknebel easiest way probably would be an e-mail or SMS gateway, surely they support sending those already?
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sknebel that said, at least for Amazon Alexa writing your own "apps" didn't look to difficult either
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ben_thatmustbeme from the sound of it, writing interactions for google home is pretty easy as well
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ben_thatmustbeme it would probably be easier to just go through micropub than to deal with email
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ben_thatmustbeme "would you like to syndicate a copy to facebook?"
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 7 hours, 13 minutes ago: Loqi includes the avatar URL in the preview of http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ , we wonder why
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Loqi aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 4 hours, 44 minutes ago: the wiki throws errors when a user tries to add an e-mail address to their settings, is that "intentional" (as in, not configured) or a supposed to work and thus a bug?
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aaronpk catching up on logs
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aaronpk the link preview of http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/ is actually done by XRay (which is open source, *ahem* cweiske)
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d5fb4e498fe609cc29b04e5b7ad688c4?s=42&d=mm&r=pg
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aaronpk if you look at the parsed mf2 of that page, you will notice there is a "photo" property on the h-entry which is where that image is coming from
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aaronpk you can verify this using either pin13.net or xray.p3k.io https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fboffosocko.com%2F2016%2F12%2F18%2Frss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017%2F and https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fboffosocko.com%2F2016%2F12%2F18%2Frss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017%2F
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sknebel ah, I only looked at pin13 and didn't think the preview would include the image url
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aaronpk sknebel: I don't get an error adding an email address
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aaronpk adding an email address doesn't actually do anything though, so i'm not too concerned
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aaronpk i don't actually have email sending hooked up for the wiki
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sknebel I assumed so, since the error reported came when it tried to send webscripter a verification email
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aaronpk huh. a verification email for what?
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sknebel <indiescripter> petermolnar On https://indieweb.org/Special:ConfirmEmail it comes back with IndieWeb could not send your confirmation mail. Please check your e-mail address for invalid characters.
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aaronpk ah i see. after you try to have it send the confirmation
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sknebel (and I should have included a log-link to my tells, sorry about that)
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aaronpk i've never even thought of setting up email for the wiki to send notifications
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aaronpk there's no passwords so it won't send password reset emails ever
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sknebel surprised me as well, but since it came up I thought I'd get the "authorative" answer
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snarfed aaronpk++ for no emails or passwords when possible. bridgy is the same way.
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Loqi aaronpk has 443 karma in this channel (1156 overall)
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sknebel !tell indiescripter: confirmed, the wiki is supposed to not send you e-mail
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club San Francisco 2016-12-28" by Kevin Marks on 2016-12-20 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-2016-12-28
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@benborges_ @HongPong @b9AcE this is pretty much what i'm using now : https://1-m.cc/2016/self-hosting-a-custom-news-publishing-system-part-1-indieweb-openweb-selfhosting part 2 https://1-m.cc/2016/how-to-setup-a-self-hosted-information-system-part-2 this can be opened (twitter.com/_/status/811351986671075328)
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tantek manual person-tagging has its attention / incentive limits
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tantek (I am finding)
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tantek for more than a few people in a photo. unless I know who everyone is in the photo and can tag everyone, then my compulsion for completeness has a stronger pull and that motivates me to do all the person-tagging
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tantek I have thought of a few ideas for semi-automating the process
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tantek 1. auto-suggest a person-tag for anyone who is @-mentioned in the photo post name / summary / content.
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tantek 2. create a recommendation engine that shows suggested person-tags after you have person-taggged 2+ people, simply based on previous photos you have person-tagged (when you tag A and B, you also often tag C. that kind of thing)
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tantek that could reduce the UI effort to person-tag down to one-click per person that is suggested
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tantek and if the recommendation engine gets "lucky" with the first few suggested people, and you click them, then it has more precise data with which to suggest more people