#indieweb 2016-12-29

2016-12-29 UTC
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KevinMarks The json examples in that article are instructive, but it's still better than xml
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mindB csv is simple enought that it's difficult to create interoperability issues. Doesn't exhibit a lot of the issues from that article, but you give up some flexibility in return. That said I'll grant that delimiters other than commas are often much nicer to work with.
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KevinMarks Csv has terrible escaping issues if your data has commas or quotes in
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KevinMarks Because the default practice is both poorly defined and daft
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KevinMarks Tsv has well defined escaping for the significant characters
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mindB KevinMarks: could you link me somewhere where tsv escaping is defined. This is actually the first I'm hearing of it as a format with its own abbreviation.
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mindB My googling isn't yielding much differentiating it from csv.
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KevinMarks https://docs.python.org/3/library/csv.html is helpful
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KevinMarks The quote escaping is not needed for tsv
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tantek hello from HWC SF!
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tantek in the midst of quiet writing hour with Kevin and Aaron (different aaron!)
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GWG Hello, HWC SF
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GWG I'm not being quiet
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tantek GWG, you sounds quiet from here
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tantek sound*
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GWG tantek: I'm still trying to live up to my commitments.
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tantek same
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KevinMarks slack unfurling and oembed: https://medium.com/slack-developer-blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-unfurling-but-were-afraid-to-ask-or-how-to-make-your-e64b4bb9254
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KartikPrabhu wow! Slack unfurl seems to be using a combination of open graph and twitter meta stuff
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GWG Darn. I have to completely rewrite another piece of this code. I really want to finish this.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the only topic for tonight's meeting is 2017-01-01 commitments - stuff to get built by new year (twitter.com/_/status/814304817640337408)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: they're pre-new year resolutions - stuff to get done by 2017-01-01 on your website so you can do things there in the new year (twitter.com/_/status/814304998246989825)
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GWG I will be really happy when my commitment is committed.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: this started back in 2009 when I committed to post to my own site first from 2010, and we did some for 2015 as a group (twitter.com/_/status/814305205718290432)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: this year we have a lot of interesting commitments listed at https://indieweb.org/2017-01-01-commitments (twitter.com/_/status/814305399897784320)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I already have notes, replies, favorites, photos - this year I want to own all my RSVPs on my site (twitter.com/_/status/814305664466087936)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: At the moment I am manually reposting the RSVPs to the silos as wel (twitter.com/_/status/814305921820225537)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb Aaron: imagine if you had been using meetup for events, and you lost all your history (twitter.com/_/status/814306007295918080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: so tonight's event is posted at http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-2016-12-28 and I RSVPd at http://tantek.com/2016/355/t2/homebrew-website-club-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/814307031708499968)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Brid.gy will see the facebook URLs and RSVP there as well (twitter.com/_/status/814307133047132161)
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tantek What is Bridgy?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/bridgy
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KevinMarks looks like withknown doesn't like h-cite in RSVPs
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: in IRC you can ask 'what is Bridgy?' and Loqi will answer with a definition: http://indieweb.org/irc/2016-12-28/line/1482980959 (twitter.com/_/status/814307681435578368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: my next step is to look for my RSVPs and get the event details back from them - parsing the remote event (twitter.com/_/status/814307901040893953)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the other thing going on this week is @aaronpk's 100 days of indieweb idea: https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/814309233785262080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: he has decided to make 100 days of visible improvements to his indieweb sites: https://aaronparecki.com/tag/100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/814309504166887425)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: also @aaronpk is doing 100 days of music too, composing and publishing a piece each day as a video: https://aaronparecki.com/tag/100daysofmusic (twitter.com/_/status/814310199506980865)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @sdepolo: is there a non-silo'd option for posting video or audio? (twitter.com/_/status/814310712390598656)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: https://archive.org allows you to upload video or audio that you created (twitter.com/_/status/814310813943074816)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: https://archive.org wants you to upload creative commons content, so they will host that for you. (twitter.com/_/status/814310951923175424)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: so #100daysofindieweb seems much less hard than composing music every day (twitter.com/_/status/814312116190674947)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there are lots of 100 days things we could do - like 100 days of closing tabs (twitter.com/_/status/814312755461296133)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: how about 100 days of contributing to wikipedia? You could just take photos of things and contribute those to wikimedia (twitter.com/_/status/814314075647787009)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: how about 100 days of deleting accounts? I bet I have 100 accounts on websites I don't need (twitter.com/_/status/814315849255358464)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: 100 days of deleting apps that you don't need? (twitter.com/_/status/814316874070654977)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: 100 days of charity donations - post one every day (twitter.com/_/status/814317772352212992)
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KevinMarks I put the birthday balloons into a plugin, but the script aaron is using seems to stomp the entire webpage
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@sdepolo Thanks @tantek...I may be able to clear my open tabs by end of Q1 if I do this! #100daysIndieWeb #indieweb cc:… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/814319323602784256 (twitter.com/_/status/814319323602784256)
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tantek Happy birthday aaronpk !!!
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@sdepolo Great ideas for doing something amazing in 2017 inspired by @aaronpk, @t & #indieWeb: https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/814323434318536704)
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@indiescripter Thanks for reply @aaronpk @indiewebcamp . Explained in my 1st #indieweb article. Hope counts as 1 of the 100 days! http://indiescripter.com/articles/reply-aaron-parecki-2016-12-29.html (twitter.com/_/status/814363314012569601)
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@kartik_prabhu @indiescripter @aaronpk @indiewebcamp I think what you are looking for is Webmention https://indieweb.org/Webmention (https://t.co/hK638ABdEi) (twitter.com/_/status/814382737528332289)
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KartikPrabhu !tell indiescripter you can leave messages for people if they are not around using "!tell <name of recipient> <message>"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles notes, December 28, 2016" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-12-29 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/28/homebrew-website-club-los-angeles-notes-december-28-2016/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles notes, December 28, 2016" http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/28/homebrew-website-club-los-angeles-notes-december-28-2016/
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@ChrisAldrich Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles notes, 12-28-16 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/28/homebrew-website-club-los-angeles-notes-december-28-2016/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/814394269293281280)
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tantek Twitter sent my locked account a "get started with Twitter" email
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tantek this is too rich
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tantek replying to it saying I can't
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@ChrisAldrich @indiescripter I think you've probably got a pretty good start on the IndieWeb philosophy. And an even better… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/indiescripter-i-think-youve-probably-got-a-pretty-good-start (twitter.com/_/status/814407148713164800)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@indiescripter I think you've probably got a pretty good start on the IndieWeb philosophy. And an even better start in that you're writing your thoughts" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-12-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/indiescripter-i-think-youve-probably-got-a-pretty-good-start
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KevinMarks earlier, I was testing my birthday balloons extension on aaron's site on the train home, and it suddenly stopped working
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KevinMarks I wondered if I had a script error, but it was just that it had turnede midnight
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sl007 aaronpk - FYI https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7827-on_the_security_and_privacy_of_modern_single_sign-on_in_the_web
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@xtof_fr A étudier pour stratégie de #sauvegarde #indieweb (ducamp.me sauvegarde) https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/814310951923175424 (twitter.com/_/status/814423861563375616)
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tommorris Wait tantek got twitter locked? Damn silos.
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petermolnar huh? I missed that, where, what?
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Zegnat tommorris, petermolnar, he only got one of his project-specific-accounts locked I think. Not @t
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Zegnat Alright, got my commitment in. I work better when on a deadline. https://licit.li/58651f399057e
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aaronpk ?
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aaronpk did we ever figure out why XRay can't do link previews for your posts? was that the ipv6 issue?
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Zegnat No, that was sebsel
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Zegnat Mine are still an open question
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aaronpk oh. maybe it's the same thing with yours. i notice an ipv6 address for licit.li
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Zegnat Mine should be available over IPv6 though
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Zegnat Also, they were working a couple of days ago, aftre I fixed some faulty mf artefacts.
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aaronpk oh yeah hm
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Zegnat “{"error":"timeout","error_description":"Operation timed out after 4097 milliseconds with 0 bytes received"}”
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Zegnat huh
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aaronpk yeah thats why i thought it might be an ipv6 thing
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Zegnat It shouldn’t be. Anyway we can easily check if my website resolves on IPv6?
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aaronpk i checked with curl and it looks fine
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@aaronpk @indiescripter @indiewebcamp Thanks for the explanation! It's great to hear this feedback from people new to… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/814487296896540672 (twitter.com/_/status/814487296896540672)
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Zegnat I’m just going to blame app engine then and call it a day ;)
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aaronpk ugh, appengine has been nothing but a host of networking problems.
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aaronpk wow bridgy publish is so good
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aaronpk i've been using it when I want to reply with something longer than 140 chars and have it include the link back to my post
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aaronpk i use silo.pub when i want to post normal tweet-length things
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aaronpk bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 45 karma in this channel (51 overall)
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Zegnat How do you use silo.pub for that? Your CMS sends out an extra micropub POST to silo.pub and uses that to syndicate?
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk basically using it as a standard API to post to any silo
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GWG Not a bad way to do it
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Zegnat What is dating?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dating" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Zegnat Hmm. I was just talking about putting a dating profile on my site. Anyone know of prior-art?
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Zegnat Probably easier to syndicate using Micropub than whatever APIs the silos think up
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GWG Zegnat, likes long walks on the beach and silo quits?
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Zegnat I was talking about dating with a friend. And online dating sites came up. But those are obviously silos. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have a clue what to put on my own site to self-host a dating profile.
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Zegnat Interesting thought experiment
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aaronpk start by analyzing the silos!
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GWG At the least, you can post an equivalent on your site.
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gRegorLove Howdy, indieweb.
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chrisaldrich2 Good morning indieweb
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Zegnat Good morning chimo_
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Zegnat chrisaldrich1
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Zegnat (Well, looks like I keep missing the amount of times I need to hit tab.)
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chimo_ Zegnat good morning regardless :)
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chrisaldrich2 Working on the last bits of my /2017-01-01-commitments
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GWG Oh?
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Loqi [indieweb] "@aaronpk @indiescripter Another option to encourage others to post their replies on their own sites rather than directly on yours, you could provide a URL" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-12-29 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/aaronpk-indiescripter-another-option-to-encourage-others-to-post-their
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chrisaldrich2 GWG++ for "likes long walks on the beach and silo quits"; I'm still laughing!
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Loqi gwg has 176 karma in this channel (191 overall)
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snarfed GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 177 karma in this channel (192 overall)
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chrisaldrich2 The dating conversation does make me think how nice it would be if I could swipe right on a website and have a "like" post be sent to my own website.
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GWG How about Must Love Webmentions?
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snarfed ah the neverending battle to make indie liking/replying as easy as on silos
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snarfed (cf https://snarfed.org/2015-01-22_pesos-for-bridgy-publish#disadvantages )
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] PESOS for Bridgy Publish
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chrisaldrich2 GWG is here all week ladies and gentlemen. Don't forget to tip your waitstaff.
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chrisaldrich2 snarfed: I like that idea for a Micropub channel on IFTTT on that page.
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aaronpk you can do micropub with ifttt!
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aaronpk it's called the "developer" channel and you can just build the post request that way
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chrisaldrich2 aaronpk: Wait, what?!!
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GWG If I really wanted to get corny, "Take my rel=spouse please."
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aaronpk that's how i get my weight posts from my scale onto my site
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chrisaldrich2 Henny Youngman, eat your heart out!
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chrisaldrich2 aaronpk, have you documented it anywhere?
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aaronpk hm looks like i haven't
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petermolnar please do so
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aaronpk oh that's right...the developer channel doesn't let you set headers, so you have to include the access token in the post body, but it works other than that
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chrisaldrich2 Do you have a published applet for it there? or not because of the access token issue? https://ifttt.com/p/aaronpk/shared
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aaronpk it's just a one-off for my scale. i wonder if i could publish it with a field for the access token
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Zegnat chrisaldrich2: now I feel like I have to implement a swiping thing on my personal page
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Zegnat And have little hearts pop out or something
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chrisaldrich2 Zegnat: it's your own fault for bringing the topic up. I always did like those little hearts on periscope...
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Zegnat It was a semi-serious question, so I don’t mind semi-serious answers
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@100daysindieweb Day 9: Webmention form #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/29/9/day-9 (twitter.com/_/status/814523870543691776)
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chrisaldrich2 I can feel a new post type coming on.... first it's "like", then it's a "favorite", followed by "love", and then an "engaged" and "married" post type. Hopefully these last few are infrequent...
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chrisaldrich2 I could see a work/professional related case that could piggyback on the dating site functionality. There's a phone app that does something like this already: http://www.shapr.co/
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chrisaldrich2 I could see a work/professional related case that could piggyback on the dating site functionality. There's a phone app that does something like this already: http://www.shapr.co/
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chrisaldrich2 I can see a work/professional version of some of the dating type functionality. There's a phone app version of it at http://www.shapr.co/
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Zegnat Feels likebringing back xfn. And then most when an update to the xfn has taken place.
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petermolnar xfn never really went away... it just got unused, when the wordpress blogroll functionality got hidden from the core.
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Zegnat Hmm, interesting, Facebook sends out a notification when people post something again after not posting for a while
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@cswordpress One more reason to start doubling down on the #indieweb, although social media habits die hard. https://twitter.com/dennisl/status/814578868753465348 (twitter.com/_/status/814585792555315200)
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tantek sdepolo++ for the big update on https://indieweb.org/GoDaddy
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Loqi sdepolo has 3 karma
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GWG I just noticed something in the Micropub specification. It supports location as a geo URI, as a URL, or as a nested h-adr. Why not as a plaintext string?
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snarfed GWG: h-adr.p-label is a plain text string. http://microformats.org/wiki/h-adr#Properties
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Loqi h-adr
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GWG Yes, but h-adr is suggests a full address whereas just a text property...
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Zegnat Feels like it was taken from http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#lat_long_an_entry_was_posted_from
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
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Zegnat I.e. it assumes you want to provide lat/long?
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GWG p-label suggests a mailing label.
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GWG I am wondering if I want to set my location to 'Home'
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sknebel http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#p-location points to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event#p-location, wich says "p-location is typically a physical address, optionally marked up with h-adr,"
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
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sknebel key word being "optionally"
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GWG But look at the example in h-event, which shows just a plaintext p-location
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GWG And the p-location in h-entry notes as implemented in the same manner as h-event
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sknebel I'd see the part in the micropub spec only as examples, since micropub by design wants to be about submitting mf2
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sknebel and in the mf2 specs it is clearly optional
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Zegnat All the h-entry FAQ items seem to want you to use nested mf for locations though. That is the only place that suggests that plain strings are not allowed
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Zegnat “venue an entry was posted from” / “address an entry was posted from” / “lat long an entry was posted from” - they all tell you to use nested structs
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GWG I specifically want to know if there was a rationale behind it not being mentioned in the Micropub specification.
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tantek p-location
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sknebel sure, if you have a venue or an adress or lat-long
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GWG tantek, yes?
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tantek can be a plain string
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GWG tantek, that I derived, but why is that omitted in Micropub specifically?
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GWG I am trying to figure out if there was a reason, or just an oversight
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tantek not sure, I think you can still use it, because micropub accepts any microformats properties
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sknebel GWG: if someone asks, the examples section it is missing from explicitly is "non-normative" ;)
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Zegnat Good catch sknebel!
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GWG Yes, but if I want clients to support it, I should propose it be referenced
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GWG In the project I am working on, I decided to support everything but nested h-adr.
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[kevinmarks] You do support nested h-card?
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[kevinmarks] Zegnat, Chris if you want a heart animation I extracted twitter's here http://www.kevinmarks.com/lovetwitter.html
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Loqi Love Twitter
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GWG [kevinmarks]: I will. I don't yet. I decided if you are feeding a full h-adr, you might as well have a venue.
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GWG I had to make a bunch of fixes in the non-venue code first.
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GWG I've been stuck on this project for too long, I want to get part of it done if not by 2017, shortly thereafter
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Zegnat GWG, I don’t know if I agree. My home can be described by its h-adr, but it doesn’t have a name or other identity that it would make sense as h-card/venue
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aaronpk My home usually has a name but I haven't named the last 2 yet
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aaronpk (I move a lot apparently)
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GWG Zegnat: Why does it need another identity than the one relative to you? It is your h-card
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Zegnat I don’t think I will start putting people in my location property, seems odd
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Zegnat Also, my h-card usually has 2 h-adr, so it wouldn’t work well
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GWG Zegnat: If the URL for my h-card is on my website, and I call it home, isn't it assumed it is my home?
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Zegnat Maybe. But I am only looking at the location property on an h-entry. I could use h-card for it, if I am at a named venue. My house has no name, but it has an adress, so I would use h-adr.
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Zegnat I would not link to my h-card, my h-card has two nested h-adr so it would not be clear what the actual location of the h-entry is. I would also not create an h-card just for my home.
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Zegnat Though this is just philosophical. If you do not have a use for h-adr in your micropub handling, then don’t :)
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GWG Why does it have two nested h-adrs?
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GWG I want to reflect being at home, but I don't want to give out my address.
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GWG So, I want a venue that represents it without revealing its exact position.
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tantek GWG, I believe Foursquare / Swarm has a notion of such private venues
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tantek where they have names, but their addresses are not revealed
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miklb would neighborhood be enough?
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Zegnat GWG: Postal and living adr. Currently lacking the latter.
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tantek and frankly, you could just have an h-card with p-name of "home" and u-url of its own page on your website
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GWG tantek: That is what I'm implementing.
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tantek I see no problem with that
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tantek it becomes a "logical" venue of sorts, without disclosing anything specifically physical
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tantek Zegnat, it doesn't make any sense to use your own h-card (that represents you the person) as a "venue"
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tantek (aside from humor value - in Foursquare, before Swarm, people did end up creating venues for *parts* of other people, e.g. there was a Trammell's Beard venue)
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Zegnat that’s what I was thinking, tantek. But it also doesn’t feel like it makes sense to make an h-card for every address I visit.
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tantek wow the URL is still there.
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tantek https://foursquare.com/v/trammells-beard-austin-edition/4b9c558af964a520656036e3
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tantek one of those Foursquare / SXSW jokes / humor things
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tantek Zegnat, why not? "make an h-card for every address I visit." <-- that's called owning your venues!
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tantek makes at least as much sense as logging "read" posts for every article you read
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tantek or logging " listen" posts for every piece of music you listen to
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Zegnat Because I do not want to “own” my neighbours’ or my grandparents’. I just want to keep a note of the fact I was at a specific place when I posted.
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GWG Zegnat: That is why I would make some 'private venues'.
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tantek Zegnat, then you can use a geo: URL
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Zegnat that requires GPS supporting hardware though, right? While the address I know and can just write down.
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tantek Zegnat, sounds like you're looking for an adr: URL scheme (to be invented)
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Zegnat I think that wrapping the h-adr I am going to use anyway in an h-card just so I have to give it a name is unnecessary overhead