#indieweb 2016-12-30

2016-12-30 UTC
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Zegnat h-card with p-name “neighbours” and h-adr really does not add anything of value to just h-adr
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Zegnat I think that’s my biggest gripe with this
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tantek Zegnat, depends on your human usage
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tantek if you in speech refer to it as "at the neighbors" then clearly you see value in referring to the venue by name
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tantek or if you only refer to it by address in normal speech, then not
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GWG tantek: I only have one problem with declaring a venue home.
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GWG What if, like aaronpk, I move?
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tantek venues can move
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tantek so that's up to you, do you care about knowing when you were at one specific home vs another? or is it just enough to know when you were at "home"?
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tantek probably a good FAQ for /venue - re naming
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GWG Well, let's say I want to reminisce about the time I lived on 1st Avenue?
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GWG I could always change the name of the old one.
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GWG And keep the URL
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tantek or keep the name, and change the URL
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tantek that is, you could have many venue URLs named "home"
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tantek you could also mark old ones as "closed" (something that Foursquare allows)
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Zegnat The question there is almost about what makes something unique: the venue (home) or the location (1st Avenue)
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GWG I meant, Home is the designator for the current home, and if I move, I change the name to Old Home.
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tantek Zegnat, more than that, which aspect do you personally care about?
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tantek because depending on what you care about, you could track it either way
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Zegnat I personally care about location.
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GWG Let me just get some location code live already and I'll be happy
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tantek GWG, do you have Old Home (n) for when you have moved more than once?
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GWG No. I've lived in the same place a long time
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Zegnat Especially as home can refer to 3 completely different locations for me at this moment, not ven confined to 1 country.
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tantek Zegnat, sounds like you need different names :)
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tantek even for when you just tell people
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Zegnat I refer to all of them as home, haha
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Loqi hehe
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Zegnat Also why my page says “Currently no residential address.” Didn’t want to open up that can
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GWG Zegnat: Most people do not have such a complicated situation. But as you do, you have a unique use case
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Zegnat I realise that, GWG :) But even if I had just the one home, I would prefer to add unique locations (1st Avenue) rather than unique venues (home) to my h-entry. Because that’s how my mind works. (“Where in time-space was I?” not “Was I at home?”) And I would just not bother wrapping every h-adr in an h-card.
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Zegnat But that, too, might just be me
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tantek Zegnat, you can do that with an h-card too, by putting p-name on the p-street-address. There are several venues in SF (other cities too) where the *name* of the venue *is* the street address
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tantek you can subset it too <span class="p-street-address">432 <span class="p-name">1st Avenue</span></span>
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GWG Venues are locations with more meaning
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GWG That is why I eliminated nested h-adrs
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tantek GWG, you can have an h-card with direct address properties, you don't need a nested h-adr
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@kevinmarks @realkimhansen @supercellgames @jack decentralized Green ticks are better: http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/814629873784262656)
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GWG tantek: Agreed. I eliminated nested h-adrs inside the h-entry.
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GWG On the theory that I would either have geo, plaintext, or venue h-card only
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/SkyChrisCreegan/status/814581019244457984 :face_with_rolling_eyes:
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@SkyChrisCreegan @jack Also - blue ticks have lost value now everyone has one. Replacing it with tiered tick system (i.e. Bronze, silver, gold) would be cool (twitter.com/_/status/814581019244457984)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-12-30.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@kevinmarks @jenn @realkimhansen @twitter well, the plugin is open source https://github.com/indieweb/verify-me but I'm not sure how we check bagpipe skills (twitter.com/_/status/814683811552239616)
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@m_ott Endpoint discovery of the @CraftCMS #Webmention plugin just passed all 21 tests of https://webmention.rocks/ – update coming soon… #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/814762592841400320)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Extending Press This in WordPress to support indieweb reply, like and repost" by Peter Molnar on 2016-03-10 https://petermolnar.net/press-this-indieweb
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petermolnar huh?
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GWG If I don't achieve my 2017 commitment by the end of 01-01 am I required to post a shame post?
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Zegnat Depends what you think of as a shame post. A post about why you didn’t achieve them and what you are going to do about still achieving them can be helpful and isn’t shameful at all!
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GWG I still hope to complete very shortly into 2017
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GWG Even with limiting the scope of my plans, I had to change a bunch of things in order to make it work.
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petermolnar what meta should a shame post contain?
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GWG Degree of regret?
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sebsel u-failure-of, for a link to the commitment
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sebsel I'm also not on course with my commitments :(
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petermolnar I'm not setting commitments, so my shame post could be about not setting commitments
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GWG I have made progress. I just have to refine it. I took full venue support out of my commitment to improve location and made it a future goal
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DanC blogging friction... ugh.
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tantek despite your account being locked, Twitter still spams you with all the "get started with Twitter", "do you know how to Tweet?" emails
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miklb GWG I just purchased my WordCamp Miami ticket. still interested in an IWC Miami?
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tantek when is WordCamp Miami?
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Loqi what
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tantek lol
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miklb March 24-26. The 24th is a beginners day, so was thinking that would be good day for IWC
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tantek miklb, if there's any IndieWeb related talks in particular at WordCamp Miami (like especially if you're giving one), go ahead and add the event to /events !
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GWG miklb, if you think it might work, I'll buy a ticket and talk to my boss about my schedule.
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miklb I don't see why it couldn't work. Maybe see if Aaron Jorbin is going, might be able to recruit some other WP users, plus any existing IW people
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tantek GWG, it would be an excellent opportunity to find the most common "pain points" for getting beginners started with WordPress and indieweb related plugins
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miklb tantek I didn't propose a talk for that camp.
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GWG I will drop him a line.
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tantek miklb, when the schedule is up, if there are any indieweb related talks, add them!
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miklb wil do
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tantek GWG, nothing like helping out a room of beginners getting started to quickly find out where people struggle
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GWG tantek, agreed.
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tantek that's how we found out about the challenge of even just getting rel=me for IndieAuth working with a "plain" WordPress install
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tantek (last year at IWC SF 2015)
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GWG tantek, it got easier, although the difference of opinion between pfefferle and myself on the matter made me agree to enable commit review on the repository
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GWG In order to merge a PR, it needs review by a second party.
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KevinMarks See if Stacey is going, she is at a lot of Word camps
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tantek GWG, hopefully the situation is better than a year ago!
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GWG tantek, you saw some of it at the Summit
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GWG pfefferle thought it should be a separate plugin, whereas the point was to set it up in the main plugin.
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GWG But that is settled
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tantek GWG, main plugin right?
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GWG Although there are still some issues.
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tantek I would question the reasoning for "separate plugin" without beginner feedback
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GWG tantek, yes it is in there now. But there are some filed issues about plugin conflicts
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miklb GWG just an fyi, Miami is about to close early-bird tix @ $35
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GWG About to means?
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miklb running out of early bird tix
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tantek what is WordCamp Miami?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordCamp Miami" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek miklb ^^^ feel free to create a stub with dates + location + link to the official site for it
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GWG I meant how much time do I have?
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GWG I won't see my boss till Tuesday
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tantek GWG, sounds like it's more of an issue of limited # of tix than time
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tantek probably worth emailing about
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miklb hmm https://twitter.com/wordcampmiami/status/814853414886735872
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@wordcampmiami We are down to 10 early bird tickets. Grab one and maybe win some goodies in March! #wcmia https://2017.miami.wordcamp.org/tickets/ (twitter.com/_/status/814853414886735872)
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tantek exactly
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miklb that was an hour ago, but I just bought one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tantek so there's now less than 10 ;)
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miklb indeed
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GWG How much is it after that?
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miklb GWG not sure they've said.
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miklb I doubt much more.
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GWG So I will live
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GWG I hope I like Miami more than NYC
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Loqi [indieweb] "Extending Press This in WordPress to support indieweb reply, like and repost" by Peter Molnar on 2016-03-10 https://petermolnar.net/extending-press-this-in-wordpress-to-support-indieweb-reply-like-and-repost
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tantek GWG, should be warmer ;)
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petermolnar Loqi, you are being dumb
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petermolnar and I should also not ping you repeatedly
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tantek I still want to know why Loqi said "what" above
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miklb "who is"
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tantek or when is?
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miklb ah, I misread, sorry
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GWG tantek, I didn't enjoy WCNYC and posted about it
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GWG I am well familiar with South Florida
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miklb GWG I haven't been to many WCs, but David does a great job and Miami is a huge event, should be a lot of sessions to choose from
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miklb I'm not into all of the WP fanboy stuff which it will have its share of, but last year's speaker line up looked great. The year I went it was on UM campus and was a great event
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miklb now I just need to decide if I'm going to take the train or fly :-)
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GWG I am down in South Florida right now. I can borrow my family's car and stay with them.
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miklb nice
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tantek I have found myself still using the Twitter iOS native app to "follow" people because I'd rather do that than waste time activating all their JS
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miklb cheap accommodations is next on my list. I had a company picking up tab last time I was in Miami
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tantek but I think KevinMarks has something clever to say ;)
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aaronpk petermolnar: superfeedr is picking up changes in your site for some reason. are you sending pings to it? did you just change your permalinks?
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petermolnar I definitely did not send pings
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KevinMarks__ The twitter text commands still work I think send "f @username"
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petermolnar and I avoided touching the permalinks in rss
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tantek KevinMarks++ that is genius. thanks for the reminder. And that's a great way to POSSE a /follow post to Twitter!
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Loqi kevinmarks has 203 karma in this channel (258 overall)
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petermolnar I am trying to make relative urls where it's clickable for local/ipfs support
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petermolnar which might cause issues
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petermolnar I'll look into it
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petermolnar thanks for poking me
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tantek I'm assuming even sending that through the Twitter API (e.g. via Bridgy) would work too, though haven't tested it.
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tantek what is follow?
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Loqi follow is a common button in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indieweb.org/follow
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KevinMarks__ Oh, hang on, don't send the @ https://support.twitter.com/articles/14020
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tantek heh
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KevinMarks__ So I can send "l t" to like your last tweet?
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petermolnar aaronpk it could also be the change from wp to static itself, thought that happened 2 days ago
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tantek KevinMarks that doesn't sound dependable, or rather, sounds like a race condition, in that "last" could change in between the time you decide to like something, and when your server/software sends "l t" to Twitter
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KevinMarks__ Apparently not
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KevinMarks__ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/814881349001560065
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@kevinmarks l t (twitter.com/_/status/814881349001560065)
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tantek there was a short command for it though
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tantek what is microsyntax?
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Loqi microsyntax refers to short text conventions for conveying specific semantic meaning, such as an "@" prefix indicating a (user)name, or "#" prefix indicating a hashtag (both conventions popularized by Twitter) https://indieweb.org/microsyntax
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KevinMarks__ That was it, but it may require SMS now
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KevinMarks__ They used to work in all clients
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tantek KevinMarks__: no it was "fav username"
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/twitter-syntax#Commands
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Loqi Twitter Syntax
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tantek (not sure if it still works or not)
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KevinMarks__ Oh, like or *
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KevinMarks__ None of them work
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tantek still not reliable per aforementioned race condition
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tantek KevinMarks not even the "f username" for follow?
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DanC blogging friction not insurmountable, but it took me an hour to do http://www.madmode.com/2016/deep-learning-promote-truth.html
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DanC github pages foo isn't smooth yet
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tantek DanC, there is no "smooth", only smoother, and less smooth ;)
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tantek see also: seamless :)
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DanC There's this tension between a direct-manipulation interface and version control habits that I haven't managed to reconcile for years and years.
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tantek DanC, why not both? E.g. wikis (like indieweb.org) have direct-ish editing, and versions
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tantek or perhaps by "version control" you're referring to cults of CLIs dedicated to rituals of typing in numerous magic unmemorable incantations
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DanC I'm reluctant to let go of the cryptographic integrity provided by hg / git.
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DanC ~/sites/madmode-blog$ hg log10
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DanC 220:58f15c238fff 2016-12-30 publish Google fiber bit too
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DanC 219:acc00bb6954e 2016-12-30 on deep learning applied to the fake news problem
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tantek oops I mentioned CLIs, that's more ontopic for #Indieweb-dev (new channel since I think I last saw you here DanC)
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tantek where there's much more talk like this now
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tantek (rather than in the "main" channel :) )
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DanC is there a blurb on the line between them? hard for me to see
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/discuss
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DanC I'm struggling to reconcile the split with principle #3 "Build tools for yourself"
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DanC and yes, I'm a ~30 year member of the CLI cult. Habits die hard.
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DanC CLI and emacs are embedded deep in my brain
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tantek DanC, more like the heavy dev-talk here in the channel made it more intimidating for new/beginner folks, so in the interest of friendliness/inclusivity, made sense to move cryptic dev-specific back/forth to a separate channel
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DanC I recognize this is a bug and not a feature, but there it is.
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@xtof_fr #indieweb ma stratégie de sauvegarde 2017. @Jamstatic_fr "hébergement web" : où classer la #JAMStack ? https://xtof.me/2016/12/30/sauvegarde-2017/ (twitter.com/_/status/814907761624514560)
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tantek what is twtmore?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "twtmore" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek twtmore (dotcom) was a service from 2009-2015 for posting notes to [[Twitter]] over 140 characters by auto-truncating the tweet with a tm.to permalink to the full note, all of which are now dead links. See also: [[site-deaths]].
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tantek oops
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@xtof_fr #indieweb ma stratégie de sauvegarde 2017. @Jamstatic_fr conc. "hébergement web", où classer la #JAMStack ?… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/814908933970202624 (twitter.com/_/status/814908933970202624)
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tantek twtmore was a service (twtmore.com) from 2009-2015 for posting notes to [[Twitter]] over 140 characters by auto-truncating the tweet with a tm.to permalink to the full note, all of which are now dead links that redirect to the home page. See also: [[site-deaths]].
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is wl.gs?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wl.gs" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek wl.gs was apparently a service like [[twtmore]] for posting notes to [[Twitter]] over 140 characters by auto-truncating the tweet with a wl.gs permalink to the full note, all of which are now dead links that [[404]] (domain appears to be for sale). Example: https://twitter.com/feriyantoro/status/536595285620056064 See also: [[site-deaths]].
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@feriyantoro 404: {"errors":[{"message":"Sorry, that page does not exist","code":34}]} (cont) http://wl.gs/3emmF (twitter.com/_/status/536595285620056064)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is a link shortener?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "link shortener" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek really?
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@artlung @Spkr2Managers @datawitch000 some still care about the open web #indieweb open formats privacy self-determ, @TechSolidarity ray of hope (twitter.com/_/status/814921183816597504)
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tantek A link shortener is a website that creates a [[shortlink]] (typically for any link) for use in space constrained contexts like [[SMS]], [[Twitter]] pre-tco and other [[silo]]s with post length limitations, and have been criticized for worsening link fragility. See also: [[shortlink]]
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Loqi ok
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tantek well at least the newsletter won't be empty this week :P
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aaronpk hm should I post all my 100 day projects to indie news so they show up in the newsletter?
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tantek all your 100daysofindieweb projects for sure!
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tantek or maybe do a weekly summary post on Friday mornings?
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tantek your own personal this week in aaronpk's indieweb :D
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tantek I think " How to export your data" is the friendliest / most easily findable / readable of the subheads I found
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aaronpk weekly summary post would be fun
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tantek at least you only have to do 15 of them
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KevinMarks Can you find another recording of the Lachrymosa that has less touchy rights holders?
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aaronpk i might just make one myself today ;-)
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tantek I think we should use aaronpk compositions for stage music for future indiewebcamps
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aaronpk we can have intro theme songs for each person as they walk up to demo
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aaronpk as long as there are <100 people demoing
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tantek (while people are filtering in, right before an intro talk, right after a talk/q&a is over, during snack break, during lunch break)
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Zegnat Oh, sign me up for a personal theme song! Something 8bit, if you can manage
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aaronpk 8bit is on my list :) we'll see when it makes it
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davidmead can we handle retweets via indieweb?
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aaronpk what is repost?
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
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aaronpk fixing my repost display is on my list, but here's what it used to look like http://2015.aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/11/02/1/oauth2
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Reposted https://twitter.com/zer0n1ne/status/529126352633344001
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davidmead i was looking at that aaronpk, but that seems more like showing how many people have reposted your post, via a webmention
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davidmead unless i’m missing something
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tantek davidmead there's /repost and /reposts ;)
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aaronpk oh gosh
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davidmead tricky tantek
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aaronpk yeah /repost is what you are asking about
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davidmead you guys :-)
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aaronpk i think i finally figured out how i'm going to handle storing reposts on my new site, so i can finally fix it
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tantek could use better cross-linking
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davidmead going to look at making that part of my own your data goal, doing that on my site rather than twitter
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aaronpk nice
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davidmead think i’ll give up on “hearting” stuff there
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tantek davidmead, own your favorites! (now ownyourlikes ;) )
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davidmead its lost that meaning for me know, since switching from stars to hearts
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club 2016-12-28" http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-12-28.html
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davidmead more like “i agree” or “i approve” than something i would come back to
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davidmead i would rather re-tweet or post something that mentions it
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club San Francisco 2017-01-11" by Kevin Marks on 2016-12-30 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-2017-01-11
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GWG What about blue moons and green clovers?
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davidmead hmm. seeing an issue with using h-entry on a repost and sending it to twitter
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tantek what's the permalink of your indie repost?
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davidmead when i have h-entry in the html twitter doesn’t see it as a re-tweet. take it out and post as new, sees it as a retweet
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davidmead tantek http://davidjohnmead.com/blog/2016/12/30/10641/ is the one with h-entry
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aaronpk this is bridgy publish I assume?
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Loqi [davidmead] Reposting: It's been a good year for film…check out this comprehensive list from @TheFilmStage to see what you may have missed! https://t.co/dsFXt6W0dF — Raffi Asdourian (@zaffi) December 30, 2016 Syndicated to: Twitter...
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tantek davidmead, how are you authoring your retweet?
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aaronpk take a look at the parsed version, it looks like there's a nested h-entry https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdavidjohnmead.com%2Fblog%2F2016%2F12%2F30%2F10641%2F
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tantek could be a problem with how the post is being generated, or a way Bridgy is interpreting your post (less likely)
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davidmead i’m adding it as html in WP tantek
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aaronpk looks like your theme already is adding h-entry for the post, so when you add h-entry into the post then it becomes a nested h-entry
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davidmead but i’m using [embed] to show the tweet
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davidmead could be that the embedded tweet uses h-entry as part of twitters code
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davidmead and that’s making it nested, which throws off twitter
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davidmead annoying
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davidmead i’m using the sempress theme aaronpk, but i didn’t think that added h-entry
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@100daysindieweb Day 10: HTML status pages for webmention.io #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/30/5/webmention-io (twitter.com/_/status/814944584119689216)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-12-30.html
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GWG SemPress does add h-entry.
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tantek aaronpk, chrisaldrich - any photos from HWC PDX / LA this week?
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aaronpk nope
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Zegnat I have a photo of my living room today, 4 people wearing IWC hoodies. Need to find a good place to put that.
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KevinMarks No upcoming events?
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tantek KevinMarks, quick create the page for 2017-01-11!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Week in Review #100DaysOfIndieWeb" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/30/7/
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aaronpk there we go
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@aaronpk I'm doing #100DaysOfIndieWeb! Here's what I finished this week: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/30/7/week-in-review (twitter.com/_/status/814960178139279360)
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aaronpk wow that triggered sending a *lot* of webmentions
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tantek heh
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tantek KevinMarks: this: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-11-homebrew-website-club (after-all, you linked to it from your indie event!)
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aaronpk that post showed up as a comment on the review post, so then the review post sent "update" webmentions to each of the 7 posts it links to, and then it caused those posts to be updated which then sent all the webmentions from those posts again
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tantek salmention propagation!
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aaronpk yup, where most of the players are myself
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-12-30.html
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davidmead thanks GWG. I’ll remove h-entry from my posts, leave it in the theme, and I should be good to go :-)
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tantek aaronpk, https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/30/7/week-in-review is truly impressive
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Week in Review #100DaysOfIndieWeb
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aaronpk It's pretty amazing what 1-2 hours a day can do!
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tantek it's pretty amazing what *you* can do in 1-2 hours a day
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tantek !tell jkphl when is the first HWC Nürnberg of 2017? 2017-01-04? 2017-01-11? 18? 25? Can you add/confirm on indieweb.org/events ? Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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