#indieweb 2017-01-26

2017-01-26 UTC
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tantek !tell cdevroe take another look at https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy and see if it makes it any easier, and definitely speak up when you see steps that you've run into trouble with before
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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davidmead i think that’s a good start tantek, but still reads a little too insider IMHO…like “bootstraps silo services”
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miklb we might still be at the insider phase. Getting experienced deva able to hook up the services and expand on the tools needs to happen first IMO
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miklb s/deva/devs/
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gRegorLove "we'll presume you've got the IndieWeb WordPress plugin installed with the following minimal set of sub-plugins installed:" then lists the webmention support for threaded comments plugin "technically not required, but recommended"
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gRegorLove I'd suggest minimal should be what's required to make it work
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miklb what is wordpress bridgy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wordpress bridgy" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove wordpress bridgy is /WordPress_with_Bridgy
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Loqi ok
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miklb what is WordPres_with_Bridgy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPres_with_Bridgy" yet. Would you like to create it?
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miklb gah
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gRegorLove what is wordpress bridgy?
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miklb what is WordPress_with_Bridgy
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Loqi WordPress with Bridgy is a work-in-progress guide for how to setup your WordPress blog to work with Bridgy to both backfeed (have social media likes, replies, reposts show up on your original posts) and POSSE (cross-post your posts to social media) https://indieweb.org/wordpress_bridgy
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Loqi WordPress with Bridgy is a work-in-progress guide for how to setup your WordPress blog to work with Bridgy to both backfeed (have social media likes, replies, reposts show up on your original posts) and POSSE (cross-post your posts to social media) https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove You can use spaces btw, and not case-sensitive.
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gRegorLove What is wordpress with bridgy
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Loqi WordPress with Bridgy is a work-in-progress guide for how to setup your WordPress blog to work with Bridgy to both backfeed (have social media likes, replies, reposts show up on your original posts) and POSSE (cross-post your posts to social media) https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy
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miklb just what I thought. Needs huge disclaimer about theme needing mf2.
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miklb goes to his notes so he can add
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gRegorLove Only for publishing
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davidmead true miklb
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davidmead and i’m just a simple bear ;-)
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miklb gRegorLove what do you mean "only for publishing"?
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gRegorLove Backfeed doesn't require mf2 unless I'm forgetting something?
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miklb probably, but I'm going with the precept that someone setting up bridgy with WordPress is going to want to POSSE to silos, and without knowing they need an mf2 supported theme, pull their hair out trying to figure out why bridgy isn't doing X
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gRegorLove Yeah, agreed
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davidmead Do you have to POSSE your post first, before you can get backfeed?
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gRegorLove No
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snarfed also manual posse is fine, doesn't require mf2 etc
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gRegorLove If your tweet contains the link to your original post, Bridgy sends wm for replies to that URL
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snarfed sometimes thinks we over-emphasize automating and code. manual until it hurts!
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aaronpk manual-til-it-hurts++
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Loqi manual-til-it-hurts has 1 karma
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gRegorLove Good point.
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miklb I disagree snarfed
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davidmead thx gRegorLove
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aaronpk doing it manually a few times ensures you automate the right aspect of it by looking at what parts in particular are causing a pain point
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miklb If the goal is to encourage more users, seamless tools is going to be the only way
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gRegorLove It's definitely not going to onboard Generations 2+ very well, but... the plugins aren't quite there yet either.
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gRegorLove e.g. A list of 4 plugins as the minimal setup for WordPress with Bridgy... that alone isn't very user-friendly. Not trying to be critical, just saying.
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davidmead what is Generations?
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Loqi Generations in the context of the indieweb refer to clusters of potential IndieWeb adopters in a series of waves that are expected to naturally adopt the indieweb for themselves and then help inform the next generation https://indieweb.org/generations
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miklb gRegorLove I don't disagree with that
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gRegorLove snarfed: You just don't like writing code. ;) jk
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aaronpk lesscode++
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Loqi lesscode has 2 karma
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snarfed gRegorLove: true!!!
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/2017-01-23_23351
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Software Prevention Engineer
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aaronpk i deleted a bunch of code today. it was great
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gRegorLove Hehe. I know
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/2016-01-11_16967
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] All code is liability. - Peter Norvig, via Towards an understanding of technical debt
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@mholzschlag If #webdev #webdesign #ui #ux #openweb #indieweb #hacktivists #OpenSource #OpenData #OpenAccess #a11y #computing… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/824419614239051776 (twitter.com/_/status/824419614239051776)
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@mholzschlag If #webdev #webdesign #ui #ux #openweb #indieweb #hacktivists #OpenSource #OpenData #OpenAccess #a11y #computing… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/824419898067529729 (twitter.com/_/status/824419898067529729)
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gRegorLove davidmead: Check out that backfeed paragraph now. I rephrased it a bit.
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davidmead much better gregorlove
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GWG Finally home.
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GWG I missed all sorts of conversations I wanted to be in
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GWG Manual till it hurts, huh?
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GWG snarfed: It does hurt, I don't post enough
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snarfed but you don't do it manually either, right?
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GWG Yes, because I talk myself out of it.
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gRegorLove I kept thinking that today, GWG "GWG should be here" Sorry.
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gRegorLove Heading out to start up Bellingham HWC
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miklb Until I figure out why I'm not syndicating micropub posts, I've put my WP site in a pinned Fluid instance, and I'm digging it.
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tantek Hello from HWC San Francisco!
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GWG miklb: That makes me feel like I could do better
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miklb don't. I have no idea why it's not working, certainly don't hold you responsible.
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GWG miklb: I know. I just want it to work for me and everyone else.
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GWG I admit I am not a professional coder by training or vocation. And many people here are more experienced than I. I am just dedicated.
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miklb I apologize it came out that way. I had Quill as a pinned app, and this actually gives a little more flexibility. Will need to debug micropub at some point for use on my phone.
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GWG miklb: It didn't. I am really having a bad day today for non-Indieweb reasons. I feel like Indieweb stuff is something that I can control...I build it.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "HWC Baltimore 1/25 Wrap-Up" https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/25/202441/
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miklb you have done yeoman's work in making tools to allow millions of people to use IndieWeb. It's up to the rest of us to help refine and document it
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aaronpk martymcguire[m]++
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Loqi martymcguire[m has 2 karma
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tantek aaronpk: can we ditch the [m] with karma canonicalization just as we ditch the brackets around?
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tantek !karma martymcguire
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Loqi martymcguire has 1 karma
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tantek martymcguire++
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Loqi martymcguire has 2 karma
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aaronpk hm sure. it seems like there's enough people using the matrix gateway i should do that
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GWG And even though I don't always understand how people got into trouble, I never hold feedback against anyone.
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GWG I have the same problems elsewhere. My old mentor used to warn me you have to do things backwards and forwards to prevent misunderstanding, and there will always be the person who does exactly what you strive to prevent.
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tantek wise words
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tantek what are private posts?
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen by the author https://indieweb.org/private_posts
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tantek goes to edit / add to use cases
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gRegorLove Hello from Bellingham HWC
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tantek hello gRegorLove !
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gRegorLove Party of one again, but just today someone reached out to me via Twitter, so maybe more new people in the future.
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gRegorLove Made some good progress on a post, though, and now working on php-mf2
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@wdenton Blog post: Notifying Internet Archive when a new post is published https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/01/25/internetarchive/ #indieweb #jekyll (twitter.com/_/status/824449357244170240)
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tantek yes
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tantek nice - they learned it (and quote from) our Internet Archive page!
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GWG By the way... https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/112
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tantek GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 183 karma in this channel (199 overall)
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GWG Well, pfefferle notes in October of 2013 "removed all microformats stuff - the plugin should only implement the spec stuff" https://github.com/dshanske/wordpress-webmention/commit/c23c4342defcb2355acf427e2081cdfd2a421405
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GWG The current spec suggests it should support h-entry at the least.
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tantek that's a bit out of date now
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tantek Webmention has been expanded to reference h-entry
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tantek so that's worth adding back in
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GWG tantek: My point exactly. I see why it was removed. I want to discuss putting it back together because so many people seem to not realize they are codependent.
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tantek great - file an issue to add it back accordingly
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GWG I did.
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tantek URL?
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GWG That is this... https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/112.
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GWG The one I mentioned.
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tantek oh that doesn't say anything about h-entry
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tantek I'm confused
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tantek perhaps you could more context in the issue?
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tantek and more details?
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Loqi [indieweb] "William Denton: Notifying the Internet Archive when a new post is published" by William Denton on 2017-01-26 https://www.miskatonic.org/2017/01/25/internetarchive/
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@sdepolo Sadly missing #indieweb tonight. WFH seeing if I can indiewebify GoDaddy's new DIY web builder: https://www.godaddy.com/gocentral?isc=fbengsb17&cvosrc=advocacy.trapit.trapit&campaign=indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824467347222126592)
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tantek Here at HWC SF it was just me so I held an extended quiet writing hour as it were, and spent some time documenting use-cases for private posts, from discussions I've had with others: https://indieweb.org/private_posts#Sharing_With_Fewer_Friends
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@kevinmarks Day 3: better hovercards on mylive-noted posts #100DaysOfIndieWeb: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-3-better-hovercards-on-mylive-noted-posts-100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824517657084825600)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on The IndieWeb and Journalism by IndieWebCamp" by IndieWebCamp on 2017-01-26 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/#comment-33595
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_: your unmung link URL in http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-3-better-hovercards-on-mylive-noted-posts-100daysofindieweb seems to be realtive and so 404s
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Day 3: better hovercards on mylive-noted posts #100DaysOfIndieWeb
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KevinMarks_ Thank you - fixed
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chrisaldrich Somehow I managed to lose an hours' worth of documentation in the wiki because I didn't hit save. Sure sign that I should give up tonight and go to bed. Good night mush. Good night brush. Good night IndieWeb. Good night moon.
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[jeremycherfas] I also asked yesterday in the Grav forum whether a plugin to do the same could be built. Not something I can do myself.
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petermolnar it's not hard to write grav plugins
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petermolnar not _that_ hard
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[jeremycherfas] Maybe not for you!
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sebsel those threaded Slack messages are going to create a lot of confusion here in IRC one day
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cweiske i'm connected via the slack xmpp gateway to our company's slack, which has the same issues
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sebsel yeah I get the usefulness of the feature, but their are breaking everything :)
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sebsel for here, it might be nice if the bridge would include the last message in the thread as something like [re: message]
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sebsel or a link to the original on chat.indieweb.org, but I think that's hard
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petermolnar I don't see any use for threads in a _chat_
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petermolnar for mail, yes, for forums, yes, but for chat? It's just confusing.
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sebsel no but jeremycherfas's first message was a thread-reply to tantek's 'yes', a few hours ago
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sebsel the best option would probably be to disable threads on the Slack, but I don't think that's possible
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sebsel they are here and they are going to be confusing :p
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petermolnar keep calm and use IRC ( yes, I'm aware of https://xkcd.com/1782/ )
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[jeremycherfas] petermolnar I wonder how you think it is best to reply to something someone said in a chat some hours ago? I wasn’t here when it was said, or I might have replied immediately, and everyone could have seen it in context. I suppose I could quote the original message in my reply.
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petermolnar re @user "topic xyz" - for example
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petermolnar you don't need to quote
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petermolnar https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-01-26/1485430385054000 will quote for you
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Loqi [[jeremycherfas]] petermolnar I wonder how you think it is best to reply to something someone said in a chat some hours ago? I wasn’t here when it was said, or I might have replied immediately, and everyone could have seen it in context. I suppose I could quote the ...
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petermolnar the team chats tend to have multiple simultaneous threads going on and it's never really been an issue for the past ~30 years; you just need to learn how to follow. introducing threads will just add to the complexity, which is already bad with Slack imho, having all the images and stuff displayed inline.
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[jeremycherfas] Let me see. I have to go out of Slack, find the specific message, copy the URL, paste it here https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-01-26/1485399145715000, mention tantek and it’s done?
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Loqi [tantek] nice - they learned it (and quote from) our Internet Archive page!
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[jeremycherfas] Oh no, simpler than that, I can get the permalink from the timestamp https://indiewebcamp.slack.com/archives/indieweb/p1485431375011483 That is easy enough.
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sebsel [jeremycherfas] but that permalink is Slacks permalink. What happens when Slack goes out of business? Better to own your own permalinks. So that's why chat.indieweb.org
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sebsel (also, there is a limit on how far your Slack Archive goes. 10000 messages I think? If our Slack has more messages than that, the link would probably die.)
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cweiske the whole chat archive is 950k messages
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cweiske https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/status.php
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cweiske 922k, ok
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sebsel yeah, 10k messages goes pretty fast :)
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[jeremycherfas] OK, sebsel, I see your point. And now I suppose I’ll have to find a proper IRC client for Mac. I used to use Adium, but gave up on it because it couldn’t handle iChat properly.
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sebsel Oh no, please stay on Slack, it's a way to communicate, so it's ok
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sebsel I'm against Slack's threaded messages, not against Slack per se.
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sebsel or no not even against, that was petermolnar :P
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sebsel It's just that they need a better integration with IRC
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sebsel Just flagging them as [thread]/[threat] would take some confusion away :)
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jeremycherfas Funny, I see your posts to Slack here in Cooloquy/IRC, but I don’t see mine in Slack. Yet.
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jeremycherfas Ah. Now I do. Loqi hjas recognized me. Thanks Loqi.
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[sebsel] Well, that’s the thing. They are mirrored. It doesn’t matter where you chat
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sebsel I could switch between them all day :)
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jeremycherfas Yup. I was just being impatient. Thanks for tolerating me. Now to see about a proper avatar.
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sebsel what is IRC People?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IRC_People
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sebsel There are the avatars.
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sebsel stops talking meta about Slack and IRC.
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sebsel jeremycherfas if you need help for setting up, DM me :)
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jeremycherfas Got it. I want to figure this out. Thanks for your help.
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voxpelli I can recommend IRCCloud if one is okay with paying to get an IRC-client that has the ease of use of Slack
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jeremycherfas Thanks voxpelli. None of my friends or co-workers use IRC — heck, some of them won’t even use iChat — so I don’t think I need anything as easy as Slack for anything other than Slack. I’m not sure about paying. But the free tier also looks good. I’ll see how this works out.
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jeremycherfas Got to hget the hang of @ replies though.
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@jkphl ? Beyond happy to announce that @openSUSE will — again — sponsor the @indiewebcamp Nuremberg 2017! ? https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg#Platinum_sponsor Yay! (twitter.com/_/status/824605969963425792)
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@IndieWebCampDE Auch 2017 wieder als Platinumsponsor des #IndieWebCamp Nürnberg am Start: @openSUSE. Vielen Dank für den Support! ? https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg#Platinum_sponsor (twitter.com/_/status/824606445375262720)
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petermolnar IRCcloud is essentially a hosted ZNC
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petermolnar what is ZNC?
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Loqi ZNC is an IRC proxy, usually used to maintain uninterrupted connections which you can access from anywhere https://indieweb.org/ZNC
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voxpelli IRCCloud is quite a lot more than that, it's a web app and mobile app as well + an active contributor to the IRC community itself
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GWG I agree with voxpelli
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GWG Although I am not a user
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jeremycherfas Either way, it is more than I poersonally need at the moment.
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@Sebsel Woei, @TransIP heeft vandaag .nl-domeinnamen voor 1 euro. ? Heb jij al een persoonlijke domeinnaam? Ik zou er voor gaan. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824612792837758976)
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sebsel ^^^ Dutch registrar has .nl for sale :)
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sebsel (nice: I posted it on my blog via Quill, syndicated via Bridgy, and see that it worked via Loqi and IRC, so no need to actually check Twitter anymore)
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GWG sebsel, I am trying to get that workflow set up
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sebsel Yeah I'm on Kirby and wrote most of the plugins myself.
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sebsel But I also stopped trying to get an out of the box experience. :/
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sebsel Renamed my webmentions plugin to seblog-kirby-webmentions, so it's clearly a more personal plugin.
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sebsel I want to move back to a bit more out of the box experience.
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sebsel I guess Kirby has less moving parts.
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sebsel what is getting started with Kirby?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "getting started with Kirby" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel Don't know if I should start that one :P
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petermolnar why not?
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sebsel because I modified my Kirby quite a lot
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sebsel but maybe I should.
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sebsel what is Getting started on Wordpress?
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Loqi By using a WordPress blog on your own domain, you are already part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support IndieWeb philosophies https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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sebsel ah with capitals
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sebsel what is Getting started?
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Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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sebsel I added G/s on Wordpress to that page.
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sebsel what is getting started on Known?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "getting started on Known" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel hmm, Jekyll is not a CMS, right?
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sebsel It still can fit in a 'getting started with' series.
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sebsel what is getting started with static generators?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "getting started with static generators" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel oh well
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sebsel oh, I said 'on'.
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sebsel https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_Known
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sebsel getting started on Known is [[Getting Started with Known]]
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Loqi ok
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voxpelli Jekyll and static site generators are a bit more complex than eg. Wordpress as they consist of so many more standalone parts than eg. wordpress does
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sebsel oh yeah, but they are valid approaches right?
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sebsel I kind of want to start 'getting started with HTML', because you can do that too
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sebsel manually till it hurts :P
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voxpelli sure, but 4 different parts with 4 alternatives each means 256 different combinations in total
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sebsel I should not comment on static, because I never used it
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sebsel I will stick to getting started with Kirby :)
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voxpelli and Jekyll can be replaced by Hugo, Middleman or whatever while still keeping all other parts the same :)
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Loqi yea!
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petermolnar maybe a Getting started with static generators?
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jeremycherfas What is getting started with grav
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "getting started with grav" yet. Would you like to create it?
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jeremycherfas No, thanks.
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jeremycherfas I haven’t got far enough.
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sebsel If I get someone to register a personal .nl today, does that count as a #100days?
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voxpelli petermolnar: sure, we probably need to do some more work before we're far enough to be able to describe that though :)
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@schmarty Introducing Flask-IndieAuth, a Flask extension for #IndieWeb #micropub server implementations in Python. https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/26/104730/ (twitter.com/_/status/824646292571877379)
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@_dgoldsmith Hugo transition complete, it is time to go Indie: https://ascraeus.org/embracing-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/824649055787683841)
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KevinMarks_ Getting started with static html could link to https://github.com/indieweb/blank-gh-site
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KevinMarks_ Can you get indieweb.nl?
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Flask-IndieAuth - A Python Library for Micropub Servers" https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/26/104730/
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sebsel I have http://indieweb.nl :)
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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sebsel goes to .org
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sebsel hmm.
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dgold hey! thanks Loqi!
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@kevinmarks @batterpunts I blame silos http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/12/facebook-twitter-and-google-plus-shun.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824655163356876801)
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dgold ah, hells bells, I forgot a #indieweb in my tweet
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi rise and shine!
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gRegorLove Loqi, coffee me
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chrisaldrich Good morning indiewebs!
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gRegorLove Looks like Google Contacts got a bit of a redesign. At least an introductory tour slideshow. I think they're auto-merging duplicates now, or displaying them as such. Mentioned in one of the slides.
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chrisaldrich !tell jeremycherfas, [jeremycherfas] this link (and references) might help you as an example in part of your recent quest to wikify yourself: https://indieweb.org/Template:chrisaldrich
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat gRegorLove, looks nice and clean. I’ll have to test it out some more, but Google Contacts used to have some pretty clunky interactions IMHO.
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@schmarty Another release today for #indieweb devs: Spano, a content-addressable #micropub media endpoint made with Python. https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/26/122700/ (twitter.com/_/status/824671060129959937)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Spano - a minimum-viable Micropub Media Endpoint" https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/26/122700/
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aaronpk martymcguire[m]++
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Loqi martymcguire has 3 karma
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martymcguire[m] pretty excited about having a media endpoint and very excited that i was able to set it up as a decoupled service.
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aaronpk that's awesome. i'm glad that worked out
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aaronpk that was precisely the goal of that design, and i'm very glad to see the benefits you listed there!
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snarfed martymcguire[m]++ wow yeah. agreed! also seems like this is begging to be a hosted service. any plans to run one?
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Loqi martymcguire has 4 karma
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snarfed aaronpk++ for media endpoint design
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Loqi aaronpk has 459 karma in this channel (1190 overall)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: here is a SVG problem for you (I am thinking about it too) http://mediatemple.net/blog/tips/map-rollovers/
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KartikPrabhu oops wrong channel over to -dev
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martymcguire[m] this would definitely make a good hosted service. i'm not currently up for taking that on from a support standpoint, but it seems worth doing!
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martymcguire[m] i can imagine an implementation that runs on AWS lambda + S3, or GCE, or heroku, or ...
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martymcguire[m] also aaronpk++ for quill which has made development and testing my micropub implementations not only easy, but magical.
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martymcguire[m] oop, gotta drop that also.
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martymcguire[m] aaronpk++ for quill making it feel like magic when you make that first post and all of the plumbing works
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Loqi aaronpk has 460 karma in this channel (1191 overall)
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aaronpk yay \o/
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Loqi ?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replacing Baïkal with Radicale" by Peter Molnar on 2017-01-26 https://petermolnar.net/replacing-baikal-with-radicale-for-carrdav-and-caldav
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tantek good morning #indieweb
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu can you tell if Feedly supports any IndieWeb building blocks? Like do they support subscribing to an h-feed? Or consuming WebSub notifications?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove I'd be really surprised if they support h-feed
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tantek gRegorLove: I like to think optimistically
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tantek working on adding more positive things to the top of /Feedly
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu I added some more positive stub sections to /Feedly like Features, IndieWeb Examples, IndieWeb Friendly - could you take a look and expand? Thanks much!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek anyone else here use Feedly?
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gRegorLove There isn't self-hosted Feedly
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[cleverdevil] I currently use Reader Self, but hope to transition to Nextcloud News once native desktop and mobile readers actually support its API.
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chrisaldrich I've used Feedly off and on since the death of Google Reader. But have been using an "embedded" reader in my site via the PressForward plugin for WordPress for the past month and change.
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tantek what is Reader Self?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Reader Self" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is Nextcloud News?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Nextcloud News" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] I'm on it, tantek.
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tantek chrisaldrich: can you add yourself to the users list here? https://indieweb.org/Feedly#IndieWeb_Examples
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[cleverdevil] What is Reader Self?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Reader_Self
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chrisaldrich A solid feed reader built into one's site with webactions seems to be the next biggest indieweb frontier....
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[cleverdevil] What is Nextcloud News?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Nextcloud_News
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tantek chrisaldrich: I think I mostly agree with you
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tantek I think both of those (reader with webactions) are key to solving the ease of use of "reply" and "like" actions, making them as seamless as they are in silos
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voxpelli Webactions or micropub integration
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tantek preferably both!
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voxpelli Some readers are open for contributions: https://github.com/feedbin/feedbin So possible to help them on their way
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tantek what is Feedbin?
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Loqi Feedbin is a feed reader that is available as a paid, hosted service or as free software you can run on your own site[1] https://indieweb.org/feedbin
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gRegorLove I haven't worked on it in a while, but I was working on adding h-feed parsing to picoFeed
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gRegorLove what is picofeed
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Loqi picoFeed is a PHP library to parse and write feeds, used in Miniflux https://indieweb.org/picoFeed
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tantek Are all these feed readers already listed in https://indieweb.org/feed_reader#Examples ?
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tantek That looks like it could use some updating / sorting / cleanup
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gRegorLove Shoot, started that last April. Too many things. :)
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tantek heh
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tantek gRegorLove: I need a chart of the bytesize of https://indieweb.org/Falcon#Working_On and https://indieweb.org/Falcon#Itches in one of those stacked area chart like things
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tantek I mean I think I know what the answer will be but I kinda want to see if how fast it grows and if there are any time periods where I make net progress ;)
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[kevinmarks] A media endpoint on appengine would be fairly easy, as the Google image store api is quite nice.
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GWG Dum dee dum
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GWG Tonight's Indieweb goal...do anything Indieweb
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KevinMarks1 https://twitter.com/FuckTheory/status/824693845564813312
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@FuckTheory I'm calling on everyone in the tech sector to line up and go on a concentrated campaign to get everyone you love off Facebook. (twitter.com/_/status/824693845564813312)
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aaronpk that tweetstorm would be more convincing if he posted it to his own website
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tantek what the what
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tantek I just saw the topic change show up in the real-time update of the logs, but it's not there when I reload!
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aaronpk i don't think i am logging topic changes. i'm kind of surprised they make it to the realtime logs
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tantek it looked like I "spoke" the new /topic
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tantek what is TinyLetter?
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Loqi TinyLetter is a service to organize email newsletters, with an optional blog-like web archive https://indieweb.org/TinyLetter
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tantek trying to think of how to productively engage / respond to that tweetstorm
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tantek is he basically pitching less-bad silos as a replacement for FB?
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aaronpk apparently yes
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/FuckTheory/status/824694533682294785
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@FuckTheory We need a Signal but for social networking instead of messaging. (twitter.com/_/status/824694533682294785)
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[jgarber] Hello, all! I’m reading over the Micropub spec’s “querying” section and thinking about editing UI. From what I can gather, a Micropub client can query a Micropub server for information about a _single_ piece of content with `q=source` and `url=<foo>`.
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[jgarber] But what I’m wondering: is it possible to query a Micropub server for a listing of posts (perhaps of a particular type) so that a Micropub client might display a UI of editable content?
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[jgarber] I couldn’t find that obviously spelled out anywhere in the docs and it may be beyond the scope of Micropub, but the thought crossed my mind and I figured I’d ask here for input.
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aaronpk [jgarber]: that hasn't made it into the spec yet because we haven't had clients that needed it so far
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tantek jgarber - you can alwasy get the list of recent posts from someone's home page h-feed
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tantek no need for micropub
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[jgarber] tantek: Right, that idea crossed my mind, too.
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tantek and if they have pages for particular types of posts, you can get the h-feed of those pages instead
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[jgarber] aaronpk Thanks!
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tantek that's a good start, once there's proof of concept that someone's actually bothering to do that, then it makes sense to talk about a more extensive protocol to do more, e.g. query for private posts
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bear i've started to form a thought about feeds and such...
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[jgarber] tantek Implementation informs specification. :smile:
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tantek jgarber++ precisely
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Loqi jgarber has 7 karma in this channel (8 overall)
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bear because we do things in IndieWeb in a way that consider the AdminTax of activities we should do the same for feeds
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aaronpk admin tax of activities?
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tantek bear, I couldn't quite parse that, could you state it in two sentences?
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bear if someone wants to offer a feed they will (explicitly owning the admin tax) and if they do not then the consumer needs to own it by using something like superfeedr
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tantek bear, you mean a feed file?
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bear yes, feed file, atom file, anything people assume wil be present when they point a feed reader at my site
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bear including micropub querying of past activities
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tantek superfeedr does not generate feed files, did you mean granary?
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bear probably - I was trying to say that the person who wants a feed would use the tools needed to make one
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bear superfeedr just happened to be the first thing I thought of
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bear anyways - was just a thought I have had brewing for a while
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bear sparked in some ways from a feeling that we should always have the bar for "functional IndieWeb" be low
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tantek or positively reframed, simple IndieWeb things ought to be simple to setup and use
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bear yea, I was chewing on how to reframe that - thanks
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bear my indieweb skills are stale, have been out of action for a while
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tantek that's ok, are you considering completing your 2017-01-01 commitment(s)?
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bear working on them still - just as a point of personal achievement
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bear with a bit of wee pressure because I know that some people look to my code for python examples
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tantek nice
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bear so i'm allowing that pressure to nudge me into action :)
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tantek bear, do you auto-archive everything you link to to internet archive?
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bear yes - cron job that runs weekly
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tantek what about thinks like tweets which could disappear moments after you link to them?
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bear one of my new itches is to get my pinboard activity which is also where I archive my twitter activity onto my site
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bear so then it all is IA stored
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snarfed [jgarber]: you may be interested in https://snarfed.org/posting-to-the-indieweb-from-your-phone#straw+man+design
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Posting to the indieweb from your phone
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[jgarber] snarfed You had me at Service Workers. :heart_eyes:
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[jgarber] snarfed This is great and in the neighborhood of what’s been floating around my head. Thanks for the link!
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tantek I wonder if Pinboard auto-internet-archives bookmarked links
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bear unsure
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bear oh my - this is where I learn I forgot to change pinboard when my twitter handle changed
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tantek well, this should be interesting to watch (hopefully document)
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bear let me gather some screen shots as I update my twitter config on pinboard
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Loqi [indieweb] "Micro.blog Project Surges Past $65K on Kickstarter, Gains Backing from DreamHost" by Sarah Gooding on 2017-01-26 https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost
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aaronpk whoa that's a great article
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Micro.blog Project Surges Past $65K on Kickstarter, Gains Backing from DreamHost" https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/26/12/)
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[jgarber] Speaking of auto-Internet Archive-ing URLs… is anyone programmatically pinging the Archive? If so, how and at what URL/endpoint?
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[jgarber] I see they have a bookmarklet that will hit `https://web.archive.org/save/<url>`.
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tantek jgarber - you must have missed my recent few posts ;)
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[jgarber] tantek _clearly_ :neutral_face:
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tantek I mean, I suppose they were *two days ago* ;)
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gRegorLove What is Pinboard?
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Loqi Pinboard is a silo for hosting bookmarks https://indieweb.org/Pinboard
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tantek jgarber: http://tantek.com/2017/024/t1/every-link-auto-archived
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aaronpk what is the internet archive
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] #100DoPP d5: Every link I post is auto-archived @InternetArchive. You can too: https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive#Trigger_an_Archive E.g.: @GoldenGateNPS mentions of climate: https://twitter.com/GoldenGateNPS/status/823624278230695936 https://www...
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Loqi The Internet Archive is a non-profit organization that is building a digital library, including archival copy of much of the public web https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive
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aaronpk there's some sample code and a list of people pinging the archive there ^^
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tantek clicks the truncated link from Loqi
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[jgarber] tantek Thanks! That particular post had slipped past me.
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tantek gets: "Firefox can’t find the server at www."
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tantek what is the Archive?
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Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indieweb.org/archive
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gRegorLove Interesting, had not thought of POSSE bookmarks to Pinboard
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gRegorLove I don't see anything about Internet Archive in the Pinboard settings or FAQ, so don't think they backup to IA
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bear gRegorLove - yea, I was looking and haven't found anything
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tantek could suggest it to them via their support channel (@Pinboard) you know, to help fight censorship ;)
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[jgarber] You _could_ wire up IFTTT to submit any new bookmark you add to Pinboard over to the Internet Archive (I think).
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[jgarber] Using the Pinboard and Maker channels, perhaps.
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tantek jgarber - are you adding auto-archiving to your CMS?
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[jgarber] tantek I’m planning phase 2 of my CMS and auto-archiving is top-of-mind.
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tantek doesn't understand these "phase" things.
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tantek understands get a feature to work, ship it. repeat.
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[jgarber] tantek When your personal website gets worked on in fits and starts, it feels more like phases. :joy:
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tantek jgarber, note, if a feature is taking me too long, or is breaking things, and I have "no" time left to work on it in that session, I finish by commenting out anything "breaking", and leave in any silent partial implementation for future iteration.
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tantek that way I can come back and work on a completely different feature and ship, and things keep working
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[jgarber] Solid advice!
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[jgarber] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 205 karma in this channel (315 overall)
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tantek or if the source-in-progress is irrecoverably broken, then it gets copied to a "parked for mining" folder, and reverted to the live version on the site.
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tantek that way in the future if I decide to try building that feature again, I can see what I tried in the first attempt (and maybe come up with a better approach with the passage of time)
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tantek wonders if this is worth explicitly writing up.
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[jgarber] I’m looking back at the source for FrancisCMS given what I’ve learned in the interim since I wrote it and thinking it may be a contender for “parked for mining.” Evolution tends to win out over revolution on code projects, though, so I haven’t come to a final conclusion on that.
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[jgarber] Like: "Is the thing I want to build a version of what I’ve got or is it something completely new?” That’s the major question I’m considering while brainstorming ideas.
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[jgarber] I’m _really_ inspired by barryf’s approach with Transformative, for instance.
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tantek idk - successful rewrites are rare
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tantek and yeah, barryf, aaronpk, are notable exceptions
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tantek "parked for mining
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tantek "
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tantek is only for things that are irreparably broken, like actually not running
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tantek if it's running, then it's worth keeping running
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aaronpk bear in mind how long i held out before starting that rewrite, and then also how long it took to launch it.
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aaronpk i'm happy to have done it, but it was not a painless process
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[jgarber] No doubt. I’ve been in the game long enough to know the perils of The Grand Rewrite™.
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bear I try to only rewrite if it does two things: makes things modular so I can do faster iterations or removes tech debt
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bear and the deciding point for that is conversion cost
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[jgarber] bear Excellent points.
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bear now there is an interesting edge case for that when your dealing with personal projects -- learning a new thing
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tantek bear++
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Loqi bear has 131 karma in this channel (177 overall)
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tantek I do do a lot of tightly scoped "rewrite inline" bits
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tantek often where there's a code pattern getting repeated (copy/pasted) and it starts to look just ugly / error-prone (or causes one) enough to make me think the time rewriting that *piece* is worth the time saved debugging errors from copy/pasta in the future.
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[jgarber] For instance: FrancisCMS is a Rails engine. You use it by including it in _another_ Rails app and mounting it at a base URL. That’s cool and interesting, but not without its shortcomings. At the time, I thought maybe others might pick it up and use it on their sites. That seems unlikely for all kinds of reasons (none of which I’m upset about).
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[jgarber] So then, do I carry that implementation detail slash tech debt and iterate or do I scavenge the code for the good parts and write myself a standalone Rails app that’s easier to maintain based on my current skill level.
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[jgarber] :point_up::skin-tone-2: That’s where I’m at.
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[cleverdevil] This is part of my personal reason for wanting to start diverting attention to WordPress...
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[cleverdevil] Its such a juggernaut that is going to continue to grow.
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[cleverdevil] Wouldn't it be great if it were the best IndieWeb-compatible platform out there?
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bear [jgarber] that sounds like you are using this as a learning task, so the answer is "yes, do it" but start working on tasks not with the mind you are going to "create the best thing in indieweb EVA" but rather start it as solving immediate problems
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bear nibble at it from all directions to avoid the Architecture Astronaut path