#indieweb 2017-02-04

2017-02-04 UTC
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tantek this is an interesting article and specific definition of "blogspamming" https://danielmiessler.com/blog/digg-and-reddit-please-learn-the-difference-between-original-content-and-blogspam/
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aaronpk what is blogspam?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "blogspam" yet. Would you like to create it?_L
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tantek I'm curious what others think of this, especially in comparison to a "repost" of an entire article
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tantek aaronpk, that's part of the challenge, to actually figure out a reasonable definition
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tantek that's not just the same as "repost of an article"
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aaronpk hm, do we have examples of reposts of articles?
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tantek OOPS, newsletter email has next week's event as a "Recent Event" not Upcoming!
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aaronpk i've never reposted an article. the closest is i've posted a bookmark with a blockquote of text from the article
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tantek tries to track down how that happened
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aaronpk that was the whole after-3pm regeneration snafu
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aaronpk basically it sent next weeks' newsletter today
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tantek ohhhh
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tantek ok that's why it only showed your one bookmark
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tantek that was the one bookmark for next week,
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aaronpk yep haha
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Loqi awesome
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tantek (by one minute)
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aaronpk because that bookmark was submitted after 3pm
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sknebel re the blogspam issue: in the context of link aggregators like reddit, I'd say "blogspam" is submitting (a link to) a post that doesn't add anything over an original source. E.g. when a news site reports something, submit that, not a blog post that's reporting on the fact that the someone else has reported on something
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sknebel typically those posts quote extensively from the original source, but not always
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tantek sknebel - the author of that post seems to have defined it as just copying the original, which sounds like it could just be a repost
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aaronpk a repost of an article that does not acknowledge the original source is definitely one form of blogspam
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tantek worse, that would be plagiarism
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tantek I think the point is that even if it *does* acknowledge the original source, if you submit the repost to a bookmark/link aggregation service, then you are "blogspamming" (verb not noun)
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aaronpk i've seen that a lot. i get pingbacks from those often
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sknebel tantek: it's not 100% (to me) if they only mean 1:1 copying of the text (Iet's call that a repost, if it has the source properly attributed) or include posts that include just the same information and don't add anything to it
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tantek I'm trying to separate clumsiness from mal-intent
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tantek that is, if someone is just "clumsy" at doing a repost, I think that is different than intentional blogspamming
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sknebel if you get overly strict with the latter even some tech news reports become "blogspam", if they only quote from a company press release
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tantek where someone is trying to "steal" the credit / traffic for an article from someone else
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tantek sure, that's part of the problem with getting this definition right
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tantek people used to repost articles all the time and call it "reblogging"
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tantek back when blog posts were all articles, before Tumblr even
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tantek and "reblogging" was seen as a *good thing* a way to promote the original author / content, but just using your own site to do so
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tantek This is essentially what "share" on Facebook does today
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tantek I think G+ too
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sknebel what I also liked back then that they often included a chain where its from
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tantek however I think G+ made (originally? still?) made the mistake of making shares of shares be derivative, rather than transparent to the original
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sknebel "found via X via Y via Z" or something like that at the bottom, which was nice for discovering other interesting blogs
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tantek so if someone shared a share of your article, you would never see the reshare, you would just see one "share" of your article
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tantek yes, the via chains are a nice touch
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tantek what is repost
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
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tantek aaronpk: re: examples of reposts of articles, here's one: https://indieweb.org/repost#Syracuse_iSchool
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tantek also: https://indieweb.org/repost#Barnaby_Walters
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KevinMarks_ Another part of this is news orgs reporting some other orgs article, especially when the original is behind a paywall
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KevinMarks_ For @aaronpk https://twitter.com/HollyGraceful/status/827679581159186433
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@HollyGraceful Stop saying kids born after 1990s don't know what the save icon is (floppy disk) as they're too young. The compose tweet button is a quill. (twitter.com/_/status/827679581159186433)
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi ahahaha
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KartikPrabhu I had that objection a few years ago when the whole "redesign the save icon" became a thing
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KevinMarks_ My point is more subtle. Abolish the save icon. Keep all the versions.
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aaronpk isn't apple trying to do that?
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tantek HyperCard did it already :P
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aaronpk why didn't it stick?
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tantek "save" is potentially useful to keep as "explicit version with comment about changes"
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tantek aaronpk: because HyperCard+HyperTalk was proprietary and HTML+JS was open
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_: how does one keep all versions on say a Micropub client? Automatically save every x-seconds?
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tantek from a UX perspective, is each addition/deletion keystroke a version ala Etherpad?
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KartikPrabhu what happens when js fails?
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KartikPrabhu I don't think you can just get rid of a "save" button
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tantek then the content is only kept locally in the form field per the browser's own save/restore of the form field functionality
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aaronpk i like the idea of save being the explicit version with comment
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aaronpk i've done that by copying files and renaming them before
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tantek which is kind of what it is with mediawiki
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aaronpk and that's also kind of what a git commit is
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tantek yeah
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tantek I also like the "minor revision" detail, though I feel like that should be semi-automatable? e.g. auto-detect mere typo / grammar fixes?
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KevinMarks I didn't say that this was easy, but it is definitely a direction we are moving towards
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aaronpk when i'm working with music in Logic Pro, it auto-saves everything, but sometimes i want a snapshot at a point in time so i'll save a copy with a new filename
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KevinMarks Right, so is that "save" or is that some other verb?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: the default (minimum) is that a micropub server would not keep any versions, just the most recent update
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tantek where you go from there is up to you
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KevinMarks This also maps to the functional programming view of the world
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KevinMarks Where you never replace anything, only transform it
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tantek that seems to ignore costs, e.g. both in complexity and amount of storage
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tantek KevinMarks: re: is that "save": per mediawiki, that *is* the Save verb: "Save page"
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aaronpk oh yeah and Final Cut Pro doesn't even have a "save" option. everything you do is saved automatically
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KevinMarks_ Right, in Google docs there isn't a save either
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KevinMarks_ In QuickTime we had "flatten"
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KevinMarks_ Which was keep just the current version of the edits, not all the edited out bits
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KevinMarks_ Databases are like that too, they're append only a lot of the time, so you need to dump+restore to clean out the stale bits
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KartikPrabhu anyone have a good CSS naming convention for h-cards? I don't want to use h-card for styling
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KartikPrabhu particularly I am currently styling using .h-card .u-photo which is getting annoying due to mixing mf2 and styles
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tantek interesting challenge KartikPrabhu
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tantek what I've been doing for my own site / class names, is using a *generic* plain word for local semantics to be style with CSS class selector
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tantek e.g. just "card" or "person" for h-card and "photo" for photo etc.
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aaronpk I typically use "photo" along with "u-photo" and style the .photo
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tantek :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Liked this tweet: https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/827206319551700993 ChrisAldrich on Twitter: “I can’t wait to try out Micropublish https://t.co/lJ2XoVkaI7 with @WordPress. #indieweb #micropub https://t.co/TV1V2iKVM3“" by Scott Kingery on 2017-02-02 http://techlifeweb.com/posse/15311/
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tantek keeps your stylesheet and rules looking nicer and cleaner
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tantek Chrisaldrich any news on HWC LA next week?
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tantek we're up to 8 cities for sure, and if we get LA that would be 9, a new record!
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tantek also Berlin and Scranton are doing the first HWC this coming week!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: aaronpk: thanks, I have temporarily gone with "person"
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KartikPrabhu though I have to keep the old one for backcompat for now
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tantek what old what?
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KartikPrabhu old CSS styles
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KartikPrabhu I have some articles that use those styles so I have to fix their markup first :P
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KartikPrabhu it is very tempting to just use the mf2 classes since they are already there, but then moving mf2 markup around affects the style of things which is annoying
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@cswordpress Posting the statuses and checkins I own on my personal account because #indieweb+#loopconf=win https://twitter.com/megarush1024/status/827776919504560128 (twitter.com/_/status/827777194382544897)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on This has to be the most awesome Indieweb pull request I’ve seen this year. by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-02-03 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/30/this-has-to-be-the-most-awesome-indieweb-pull-request-ive-seen-this-year/#comment-33723
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@kjmobb @thedancingflea of course. It's just a shame we've outsourced that function to the likes of Facebook...#indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/827814888571596806)
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GWG Hmmm...maybe I should write this plugin: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/120
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Loqi [indieweb] "If all is set up properly, this will be the first micropub entry on my site. #indieweb" by dgold@ascraeus.org (Daniel Goldsmith) on 2017-01-30 https://ascraeus.org/micro/80314/
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GWG Morning all
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davidmead Just noticed “badges” from Untappd get posted to Twitter, but don’t appear in the RSS feed, so don’t show up on my blog :-(
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@danielpietzsch On my new photo journal website. #indieweb http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/156806132628/on-my-new-photo-journal-website%23_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/827936468450607106)
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GWG So last night I implemented original of
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GWG I saw other people had it and was working on Syndication Links anyway. Not sure what to best do with it
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aaronpk pinned posts for tag pages are so much fun
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aaronpk it's like i get to have a bunch of mini-blogs that way
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GWG aaronpk: Got an example of what makes things fun?
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aaronpk well i'm sure you've seen https://aaronparecki.com/tag/100daysofindieweb already
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aaronpk I just added a pinned post to https://aaronparecki.com/tag/oauth so now I have an "OAuth blog"
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GWG I'm not sure if WordPress can do that on a tag page.
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GWG I'll have to check.
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GWG In the meantime, I have to update your timezone code.
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GWG Or rather, update my usage of it now that it is a library instead of something I ripped out of your repo
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aaronpk ah cool. nothing changed functionally, you can just install it as a library now
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GWG aaronpk: I know. I just figured I could make my usage of it 'cleaner'.
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[dgold] has never seen an error like <class 'sqlalchemy.exc.OperationalError'> before.
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[dgold] oh, **SQL**alchemy
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[dgold] I was reading it as squelchemy
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[kevinmarks] That is a nice affordance aaronpk
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@100daysindieweb Day 46: Expanding the IRC/Slack Gateway to all IndieWeb Channels #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/04/8/day-46-slack-irc-gateway (twitter.com/_/status/828023382780243968)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Day 46: Expanding the IRC/Slack Gateway to all IndieWeb Channels #100DaysOfIndieWeb" on 2017-02-04
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Day 46: Expanding the IRC/Slack Gateway to all IndieWeb Channels #100DaysOfIndieWeb" https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/04/8/day-46-slack-irc-gateway
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