#indieweb 2017-03-18

2017-03-18 UTC
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@priya_somani_ RT cleverdevil: Headed to Atlanta for #WCATL. Find me if you want to chat about WordPress, DreamHost, or the #IndieWeb! (twitter.com/_/status/842897901718257664)
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gRegorLove Noticed [eddie] has a "Follow on Apple News" button in his footer. Wonder how difficult it is to publish for Apple News, what the pros of it are.
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[eddie] gRegorLove: Currently I’ve been manually POSSE-ing Long-Form Articles to Apple News using their Apple New Publisher iCloud App. Primarily because it will recommend similar articles at the end of an article, so discovery is really why I post there. Plus, I love Apple products ?
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[eddie] Also, my wife (I have not IndieWeb-ified her blog yet lol) uses WordPress and we installed a WordPress plugin that auto POSSEs her Articles (aka Blog Posts) to Apple News.
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[eddie] So I actually haven’t delved into the actual Apple Format yet, having been shielded by the Web App and the WordPress plugin. Eventually when I begin looking at automating POSSE down the line, I’ll likely begin playing with some custom Apple News POSSE from my site
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[chrisaldrich] I was wondering that same thing earlier today gRegorLove...
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[chrisaldrich] What is Apple News?
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Loqi Apple News is an iOS app for reading stories published in Apple News Format https://indieweb.org/Apple_News
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[eddie] From what I understand it’s very JSON heavy
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[eddie] ?
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[chrisaldrich] I wonder what the differences between it and AMP are?
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[chrisaldrich] eddie Let us know if you need any help/pointers for indiewebifying her WordPress site, we're all still iterating on the process... curious to hear your thoughts on how easy/hard it is.
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[eddie] AMP is HTML-based, ANF is JSON-based attributes defining layouts and styling from what I understand.
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[eddie] What is Apple News Format
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Loqi Apple News Format is an Apple-proprietary format for publishing news in the iOS app Apple News https://indieweb.org/Apple_News_Format
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[eddie] What is Apple News Format?
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Loqi Apple News Format is an Apple-proprietary format based onJavaScript Object Notation (JSON) document format for publishing news in the iOS app Apple News https://indieweb.org/Apple_News_Format
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[eddie] close, better. Just some typos to fix.
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[eddie] chrisaldrich: great! I’ll definitely try to take some notes about the thoughts when I get around to it and provide feedback. That probably won’t be for a month or two. Haha
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Loqi hehe
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[eddie] That’s creepy Loqi, no need to laugh at people
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[eddie] glares at Loqi
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[eddie] Night all! ?
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[chrisaldrich] What if Loqi glared back at you?
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4nPmXKaC.jpg
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@100daysindieweb Day 87: Docs for Favorites in Quill #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/17/16/day-87-quill (twitter.com/_/status/842950138834255872)
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aaronpk First 100days created and posted using only my phone ?
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@Shipoclu @ckhonson google "indieweb" you'll get a bunch of hipsters but they're trying to bring back decentralized self-owned social. (twitter.com/_/status/842959524659060739)
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aaronpk That thread ?
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aaronpk great example of the problems of monoculture tho
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/Shipoclu/status/842960780681134081
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@Shipoclu @ckhonson tbh it works better too. I'm sort of hostile to Ruby stack or I'd jump into it more. (twitter.com/_/status/842960780681134081)
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aaronpk Re: Mastodon being a nice looking site built using the older open web specs
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KartikPrabhu as a rule I ignore anyone who calls anyone else "hipster"
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aaronpk Unless they call someone a hipster ironically, right? ;-)
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KartikPrabhu haha
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Loqi hehe
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gRegorLove [eddie] Saw you refer to my /read posts with p-page, etc. Don't give much weight to those. :) Just an experiment, and probably a bit of putting the horse before the cart. No known consumers of that for read posts, so not necessarily useful.
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bear have they seen me? hipster? really now, that's just kinda rude
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[kevinmarks] Shipoclu is moonman, who runs a gnu social site
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[kevinmarks] What is gnusocial?
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Loqi GNU social is a free software project that "will be a decentralized social network that you can install on your own server" https://indieweb.org/gnusocial
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[kevinmarks] gnusocial << mastodon.social
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Loqi ok, I added "[[mastodon]]" to the "See Also" section of /GNU_social
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@kevinmarks @ckhonson @Shipoclu adding more indieweb stuff like rel=me, h-entry microformats, webmentions and micropub would help with the federation (twitter.com/_/status/843018736512786433)
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@jkphl Happy to announce an #IndieWebWeek Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg special edition on May 17th. Be there! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club +@nueww (twitter.com/_/status/843024807637762049)
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@IndieWebCampDE Zur #IndieWebWeek oder @nueww in Nürnberg? Dann keinesfalls den Homebrew Website Club am 17.5. verpassen! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/843025188388327424)
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@jkphl ? Updated the #IndieWebWeek site with details about the HWC & @adactio's «Evaluating technology» workshop http://indiewebweek.indieweb.org/#hwc #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/843041922654650368)
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@IndieWebCampDE ☑️️ Updates auf der #IndieWebWeek-Seite: • HWC Nürnberg am 17.5.2017 • Masterclass mit @adactio am 18.5.2017 http://indiewebweek.indieweb.org/#hwc (twitter.com/_/status/843044264212942848)
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[eddie] gRegorLove: yeah, but that's kind of the path of indieweb, isn't it? dogfood something and if it works and takes off, awesome. If it doesn't we all learned something. That's what I see as valueable in that. So I've thought of similar potential in /watch posts. Thinking through potential attributes, etc. if others use them awesome. If not, we all learned it's not important or doesn't work well in that form.
martymcguire[m], M-mxuribe, TheGillies, garlox[m], pniedzielski[m], [dgold], mindB, crasch[m], SpEcHiDe, plindner, JulianFoad[m], jcgregorio[m], M-hotzeplotz, dgold[m], Guest86807[m], jaduncan[m], afrogeek[m], fzylogic_, davidmead, Pierre-O and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
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GWG I fear I am getting sloppy of late
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miklb how so GWG
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GWG I forgot to take out something temporary before committing
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GWG Okay, pfefferle just merged my repaired code
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aaronpk Huh I just realized the twitter mobile website has a totally new design, with a spiffy new posting interface
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GWG Morning, aaronpk
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aaronpk Morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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GWG Hello, snarfed
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snarfed morning!
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GWG snarfed, you saw your webmention issue got fixed?
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snarfed which?
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snarfed link?
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/126
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snarfed cool! yes
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snarfed head of wm + semantic linkbacks hasn't worked for me for a while though
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snarfed i'll try again eventually
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GWG snarfed, I am on the case there.
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@zpinternational Info for the #film #indiefilm #indie #Indieweb #indiedoc crowds https://twitter.com/IamMelanieWise/status/843122585089048577 (twitter.com/_/status/843146012818624514)
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@wltrd Kein IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf für mich, sondern Nürnberg https://indieweb.org/2017/Nuremberg. Und #nueww als Bonus :) (twitter.com/_/status/843150443266146304)
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@Buddenbohm @mamakeinezeit @FrauBruellen Es ist eine ganze Batterie von Plug-Ins, Stichwort Indieweb und Bridgy. Und ich lösche Likes und Favs raus. (twitter.com/_/status/843151051675058176)
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aaronpk i'm wondering if i should launch checkins on my site even without venue URLs, just including the venue information in each post individually
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aaronpk ultimately I do want venue URLs on my site, so that I can show a list of all the times i've checked in to a venue
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aaronpk but i think that's the main thing keeping me from moving forward with checkins right now
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sknebel aaronpk: do venues need to be anything fancier than posts to get started?
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sknebel as in, can't you just create a post to represent a venue for now, and link to that? Gets at least the mention-logic going already, and you can pile nicer display, easier creation, ... on later
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aaronpk that's how i'm planning on implementing it, but that also means i have to work on the presentation of venue permalinks
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aaronpk also i still have some unresolved thoughts around how I want to handle the case when a venue is moved or renamed
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GWG aaronpk: I would say renamed is a new venue, with a cross reference... Formerly x
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aaronpk probably. except in the case of correcting typos.
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GWG aaronpk: Keep me posted on your decision. I'm going to go back to venues at some point.
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GWG I'm knee deep in webmentions again.
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aaronpk good! it'll be great to get the webmention plugin to a solid point
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GWG Maybe I should spread out making pfefferle approve PRs a bit more.
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GWG aaronpk: Last night/this morning, I fixed an issue regarding custom post types and the page post type.
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GWG I got fragments working last week.
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GWG So, a new fix every few days.
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GWG It's fairly solid, but there is room for improvement.
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aaronpk awesome
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GWG Deleted Posts would be a big project, as would Async
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GWG Mostly due WordPress itself. It doesn't have deleted as a status, only trash.
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GWG And wp cron is not the best async option
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GWG Next is likely comment author URL
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[chrisaldrich] GWG++ for updates and new functionality/updates to WordPress Post Kinds
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Loqi gwg has 192 karma in this channel (210 overall)
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GWG Chrisaldrich, working for you now without the debug?
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@kimberlyhirsh @jdmar3 Are you acquainted with http://indieweb.org I'm just learning about it now and it seems like it's maybe a partial cure? (twitter.com/_/status/843168550403670020)
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sknebel highlight << https://crc.io/blog/2016/01/highlighting-the-internet-part-2/
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Loqi ok, I added "[[https:/[[crc]].io[[blog]]/2016/01[[highlighting]]-the-internet-part-2/]]" to the "See Also" section of /highlight
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Zegnat Wait, Loqi, you added what?!
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sknebel Loqi *loves* things he can put [[ around right now
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Zegnat Apparently
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sknebel if it is a page on the wiki, it gets [[]]
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Zegnat Definitely a bug though, as this renders the URL useless
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sknebel if it is in [[]], it gets [[[[]]]]
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sknebel yeah, already fixed it
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[kevinmarks] Isn't trash just deleted posts with undo?
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[kevinmarks] Seems CTHULU
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GWG Trash gets emptied
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GWG Deleted needs to be a status that serves a 410, not a 404 also
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tantek trash is one UI metaphor for CDURU
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tantek agreed
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GWG Trash is a complete purge
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GWG Deleted keeps a placeholder.
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tantek empty trash is typically an insecure purge
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tantek there's also secure empty trash, which overwrites the storage of the deleted thing
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GWG So deleted posts is a project that should start outside webmentions
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tantek huh?
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tantek certainly you need a UI to delete/undelete posts independent of webmention
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GWG WordPress doesn't have the feature at all. So while we want it for webmentions, it isn't a webmentions feature inherently
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GWG Tantek, that is what the separation is, for the UI and support
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GWG I am working on Webmention and Semantic Linkbacks stuff. Partly moving over features one by one or fixing issues
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tantek cool
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GWG It is hard, because it has to work in a stable way for the future without breaking the current system.
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[kevinmarks] Do you mean micropub for deleted posts?
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GWG No, Webmention for deleted posts
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GWG Or more specifically, Deleted Post support for WordPress in general
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GWG Then all plugins can hook into it
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GWG I look forward to tackling the problem one day
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GWG I am trying to smooth the playing field right now.
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GWG I want to make what we have work better before I go further.
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GWG I have an idea but I am not sure I should bother
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GWG Remove the pingback handler and have any pingback generate a Webmention.
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aaronpk wouldn't that just lead to people disabling webmention because they don't want to receive pingbacks?
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GWG As an option, not a requirement.
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GWG That would eliminate the fact that Semantic Linkbacks supports pingbacks
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GWG Another question on the Semantic Linkbacks side. It doesn't just support webmentions
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tantek GWG, I get the impression very few (if any?) people who run WordPress actually care about displaying (much less enhancing) pingbacks
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GWG Tantek, I barely do and I have advocated for it
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tantek if it simplifies things, make all the cool responses stuff (comments, likes, replies etc.) just work with Webmention
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tantek right, backcompat with pingback would only be interesting if there were anyone who actually cared about it. otherwise it's unnecessary design/coding/maintenance work
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GWG That is part of my plan. Back the idea of conversion is to remove the code that enhances both
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GWG So, it is sort of a way of getting out of backcompat
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GWG The code to route pingbacks into webmentions is about ten lines. Supporting pingback processing is longer
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aaronpk i think i am happy with my checkin permalink design
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tantek oh?
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tantek visual design?
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek do you have screenshots to share?
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tantek what did you decide to do in terms of markup if anything?
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-03-18-13-13-20.png
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aaronpk heavily based off of (but not exactly the same as) the foursquare design https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-03-18-13-13-41.png
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aaronpk i'm going with "p-checkin h-card" for the venue
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tantek that seems reasonable. as would u-checkin h-card
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aaronpk oh yeah i should do that actually
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tantek similar to the h-cite embeddings we've discussed
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aaronpk better to have the "value" of the checkin be the venue URL
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tantek that's what I would guess, but haven't fully thought it through
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tantek hence the u-checkin suggestion
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aaronpk and in order to make this project vastly easier for myself, I am including all the h-card information in the post itself, and I don't have my own venue permalinks yet
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tantek I wonder if that's adding data debt to your structures
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aaronpk in database terminology, this is "denormalized"
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tantek or rather, including the h-card information seems reasonable (from a cache, UI display perspective), however, omitting venue permalinks seems potentially problematic or perhaps a shortcut to ship
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aaronpk and yes it means i have duplicate data
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aaronpk but it also means each checkin is a snapshot of the venue at that point in time
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tantek or data snapshots as of that point in time, since venues also change over time
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tantek slow changing data over time appears to be duplicated when sampled
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tantek FWIW venue changes are one of the more awkward aspects of Foursquare / Swarm and they've put considerable effort into trying to make venue changes work
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tantek most difficult are merges/unmerges
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Zegnat has completely forgotten what mark-up he used for his checkin.
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tantek Zegnat did you add permalinks to your checkin posts on /checkin#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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Zegnat Yes
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Zegnat http://indieweb.org/checkin#Martijn_van_der_Ven
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Zegnat With link to the then discussion on IRC about the mark-up.
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tantek often rechecks his own permalinks in such examples to figure out what he did ;)
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Zegnat Yeah, I just don't have a view-source bookmark let handy on my mobile phone. So still no clue about the mark-up, haha
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Loqi rofl
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Zegnat .p-checkin.h-card on mine
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KevinMarks hm, trying to post 2 gifs using quill to known and it isn't happy
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KevinMarks maybe I should just do it by hand on my site
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aaronpk is it a quill problem or a Known problem?
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KevinMarks it may well be known not liking multiphoto
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KevinMarks I tried a FB post and it made the gifs stills
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KevinMarks twitter only lets me have one gif
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tantek one animated gift right?
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/arguments-yard.html
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Loqi Arguments Yard 2017-03-18
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@schmarty Your < 10min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for Mar 11th - 17th, 2017. https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/18/180223/ (twitter.com/_/status/843222939994652673)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • March 11th - 17th, 2017" https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/18/180223/
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@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • March 11th - 17th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/397599 (twitter.com/_/status/843225133435314177)
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@jjdelc Implementing #Indiauth support was a breeze! #indieweb @indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/843228164751089669)
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aaronpk \o/ i posted a checkin via micropub!
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/07/19/ might need to hard-refresh to get the new CSS
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Class time! ? https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/07/19/photo.jpg
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aaronpk heh I need to add checkin support to XRay next
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tantek whoa
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tantek wait where did the coins come from?!?
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tantek what is a coin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "coin" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what are coins?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "coins" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk manual for now, but i'm going to create them automatically via webmention with a swarm->webmention proxy like bridgy!
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tantek Swarm commented on your checkin?!?
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aaronpk a little sneak peek of what's to come :)
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snarfed whoa wait so aaronpk you're going to build a new backfeed proxy?!
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aaronpk snarfed: yeah! actually more like ownyourgram than bridgy
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tantek BTW if you have Swarm auto-crosspost to another silo, then Swarm will generate permalinks to your checkins so you can add u-syndication links to them - just FYI :)
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tantek what is ownyourcheckin?
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Loqi OwnYourCheckin is a service which streams your Foursquare (technically Swarm) checkins to your own site in real-time https://indieweb.org/OwnYourCheckin
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aaronpk oh i was wondering about that. right now i included the "private" share link I got from sharing the post
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snarfed huh ok. i probably don't understand just because i don't know swarm.
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snarfed on the one hand, i obviously want to encourage you to add it to bridgy...but on the other hand, i've badly wanted to see another backfeed service for a while now.
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snarfed open to either!
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aaronpk snarfed: i'm not planning on backfeeding comments to start with, just the stuff that swarm adds to the checkins
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aaronpk swarm awards points to the checkin, so i'm planning on receiving those as "comments" on the post
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snarfed ah ok. so no need for polling etc
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk and the swarm API will push checkins to me in real time so i can avoid polling there too
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snarfed ...except i assume you have no guarantee of swarm's timing on adding that stuff...?
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snarfed ah ok if you know they're there when the API pushes, then nm
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aaronpk yeah i'm not 100% sure if they are in the initial post request, but i suspect they are
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aaronpk we will find out soon
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snarfed ok. gl!
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aaronpk but for now, i can at least post a checkin manually!
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GWG snarfed, by the way, re your comment, are you using the acegiak or pfefferle branch of Semantic Linkbacks?