#indieweb 2017-04-03

2017-04-03 UTC
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndiewebPress: Improving Comments" by David Shanske on 2017-04-03 https://david.shanske.com/2017/04/02/indiewebpress-improving-comments/
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GWG I didn't think that would show up so easily.
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aaronpk Nice
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sknebel good morning GWG!
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aaronpk may i make a suggestion?
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GWG aaronpk: I respect your opinion.
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aaronpk More hyperlinks!
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GWG To where?
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aaronpk I am curious about what "for things like logs, receipts" means. Which I presume means that other readers may enjoy having other terms hyperlinked such as webmention, etc
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aaronpk You added a hyperlink to fragmentions which is great, so more things like that
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GWG I've seen plugins that use the WordPress comment table in commerce applications, for example.
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jaduncan[m] GWG I must be missing something with that use of the comment table. How is the security risk of using a table that users can type values into mitigated?
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GWG jaduncan[m]: That is only one type of comment.
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GWG You can only type values if it is a traditional comment
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jaduncan[m] Ah, OK. It is differentiated on the backend. Carry on, life is normal again.
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sknebel ;)
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jaduncan[m] I had a moment of thinking about little Bobby Tables.
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GWG I'm trying to find the discussion I read about using the comment table for receipts
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GWG Found it.
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GWG Here are a few excerpts mentioned in a trac ticket. "In Easy Digital Downloads, we use comments on our payments post type to track info related to individual purchases, and also for allowing store owners to leave notes about individual orders. Comments work exceptionally well for this, except they start showing up in recent comment widgets, which is not optimal, especially when notes may contain sensitive information."
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GWG " I'd also like to build another plugin that uses comments to manage support requests for a support ticketing system. "
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aaronpk Heh, another unintended side effect of the comments feeds?
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GWG aaronpk: This would be part of a proposed custom comment type revamp. If you register your custom types, you also register your built-in types, which mean they should be adding properties like public/private.
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GWG This is what Core could do to fix comments and support the new responses and more I want
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GWG I am going to continue with some other thoughts.
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gRegorLove Wow, using comments for that type of stuff seems like a really bad idea
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gRegorLove (receipts, internal notes)
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GWG Gregorlove, that isn't me, but the system needs an overhaul.
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sknebel GWG: I'd agree with aaronpk. When you mention one of your plugins, link it.
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sknebel also, maybe give some more concrete examples of what you want to enable to make easier (screenshotsm, links, quotes)
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GWG I didn't mention one of my plugins.
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GWG I mentioned two of pfefferle's, but point taken
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sknebel right, sorry
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sknebel link those^^^
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sknebel in my mind their yours, since your always here and talking about them, but I should know
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GWG I'm very much invested.
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GWG I'm a contributor, not the author.
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sknebel exactly
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GWG I do want to talk about users as well
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GWG pfefferle put the mention type as meta instead of as a type because the comment type support is so limited.
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GWG But that itself is a problem.
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GWG sknebel: I talk about the whole WordPress Indieweb problem.
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sknebel I guess the question is, do you want to link other people you want to convince to that post? I have a pretty good idea (I think) what types of replies we have and what they mean, for "outsiders" it might seem a bit unspecific? That's why I mentioned more specific examples
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GWG Specific examples of which?
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GWG I was trying to talk about the Core issues in building new Comment functionality. Are you suggesting that I show stuff I want to build or that has been?
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sknebel something that the Core changes either would enable (want to build), or thats really difficult right now and would be easier.
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GWG Any custom comment type is hampered by lack of official support
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sknebel not everybody might have a good vision what they'd do with custom comment types and why they'd be important, a specific motivation example might help them understand
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GWG I may try that
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GWG I think there is support for the idea, but no Core interest.
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GWG You need drivers
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GWG Same with my next topic
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 9 hours, 51 minutes ago: Do you want to update /planning#Summit so the two leading sets of dates are more prominent, or leave them all?
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tantek GWG++ for a thoughtful post!
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Loqi gwg has 194 karma in this channel (212 overall)
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GWG tantek, I got some good feedback in here.
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GWG It is hard to see explain a big change, especially when people are turning off comments in favor of letting silos take them over completely or having nothing
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GWG Although explaining the trend is a different thing.
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tantek GWG, sometimes observing a trend, and then asking questions (like why), can also be helpful, even if you do not have an explanation yet for a big change
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GWG I have some thoughts. But my suggestion in the case of my post is a lack of attention for those features.
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tantek sometimes asking the right questions gets people thinking enough to accept the possibility of larger changes
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GWG Part of this is to work on expressing how I feel the Indieweb vision fits in with improvements in the WordPress space.
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GWG I want to ponder Microformats and Users too.
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tantek GWG, do you understand the bigger picture of improvements in the WordPress space?
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GWG tantek, I hope so.
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tantek do you understand the particular motivations driving the improvements in the WordPress space?
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GWG Well, annoyingly of late they seem to be more on the business end of the spectrum
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tantek GWG, it is a common trap
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GWG Right now, if it isn't REST API, Editor, or Customizer, it isn't a Core focus.
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tantek GWG, both Webmention and Micropub are REST APIs
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tantek Editor should be a Micropub client
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tantek I don't understand what "Customizer" is but I imagine something business-CMS related
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GWG There is potential in the editor content block proposal in getting better control for microformats
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GWG Webmention is now implemented using the WordPress REST infrastructure.
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GWG The customizer is more dynamic theme editing
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GWG Either way, I still hope to get interest
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@mrkrndvs @DrNomyn What is the alternative? I am a big fan of #IndieWeb and recently started a #Wikity… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/848785428211580929 (twitter.com/_/status/848785428211580929)
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@daiyitastic Omg someone finally made decentralized indieweb Twitter https://mastodon.social/about (twitter.com/_/status/848786730266365952)
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@derhess Homebrew Website Club #5 this Wednesday #Berlin. Join us and let's talk about #indieweb https://sebastiangreger.net/2017/03/homebrew-website-club-berlin-2017-04-05/ | https://indieweb.org/events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club#RSVP (twitter.com/_/status/848881096985018368)
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[kevinmarks] Email http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-04-02
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@aaronpk @thursdayb Can you add IndieWeb Summit to the list once we announce the date? (Hopefully today or tomorrow) (twitter.com/_/status/848921277108674560)
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aaronpk We have to make a call on the date
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think i'll be physically attending either way, so it doesn't really effect me. though my wife does want to take a trip....
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 4 days, 14 hours ago: hey because you're recognized in IRC (probably due to being signed in and /irc-people) can you make it to any of the dates here? add yourself! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
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tantek aaronpk any more input on the date?
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tantek looks like late June is it unless we get some last minute different prefs
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tantek shall we call it after HWC this week? Give people a chance at HWCs to note their prefs?
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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aaronpk June 24-25 is doable for me, tho might be a bit challenging since I'll be returning from europe earlier that week.
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tantek Yeah I'll only be returning from Boston that week ;)
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[kevinmarks] gah. When I delete a custom domain from github pages, it still redirects the root there.
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[kevinmarks] or is that just browser caching?
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb!
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: check with curl
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tantek goodmorning [cleverdevil] !
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[kevinmarks] I turned off caching in the network tab of developer tools and that fixed it.
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@jgarber @schmarty Forgot to mention this sooner: thanks for doing the This Week in IndieWeb audio edition! (twitter.com/_/status/848939341846110208)
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[cleverdevil] Yay! I think I fixed the last known issue in my Food plugin for Known ?
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Loqi ?
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[cleverdevil] I also switched it over to using icons to represent different types of food and drink.
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[cleverdevil] More visually appealing.
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/content/food/
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[cleverdevil] Next on my list: sleep tracking.
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aaronpk nice!
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[cleverdevil] I'd like to use the data that iOS already collects.
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[cleverdevil] But, I am not sure the right way to go about it. I also won't use it unless its automatic.
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aaronpk I didn't think iOS collected sleep data itself
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[cleverdevil] So, unless I can find a way to make it happen magically, then I'll skip it.
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[cleverdevil] So, it appears to do some analysis now if you set "Bedtime" up in your Clock app.
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aaronpk ohhh right i forgot about that new thing
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aaronpk i've done some research into this. it is technically possible to make an app that will automatically push data out of HealthKit into a micropub endpoint or whatever. however, I haven't yet seen an app do this completely automatically like i'd like
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[cleverdevil] Might be a point for us to collaborate on. I have minimal experience with Objective-C and Swift, but enough to be dangerous.
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aaronpk same
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aaronpk tho i'm terrible at iOS UI stuff
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[cleverdevil] It'd be even more awesome to have it post my daily activity rings from my Apple Watch.
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aaronpk that data must be part of healthkit, right?
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[cleverdevil] Yup.
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[cleverdevil] Its all there in the "health" app.
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aaronpk i've also been struggling with deciding even how I want to post my daily activity summaries
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[cleverdevil] Just a matter of finding out how to extract it and post it automatically.
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[cleverdevil] Maybe something like Workflow could be of assistance?
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[cleverdevil] To avoid having to write a fully custom iOS app.
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aaronpk i call them summaries because when i'm posting a step count of a total for a day, it feels different than posting sleep or food which are as-they-happen
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tantek aaronpk, is there a difference between a summary and an aggregation?
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I think they're definitely different. I actually like how the Health app displays them.
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tantek or is an aggregation a type of summary?
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aaronpk tantek: i'm not sure. i think one difference might be that i wouldn't have the raw data of each step with a timestamp
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tantek (steps for a day, drinks for a day, food for a day, calories for a day all feel/sound like aggregations)
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tantek (sleep for a day)
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tantek etc.
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aaronpk for everything except steps i agree
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aaronpk at least in a practical sense
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aaronpk of course each step i take does have a timestamp, but i don't really care to store that much data
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tantek (yet)
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tantek ;)
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tantek wonders if that's true for dancing as well, like could you gather dance step data that way
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[cleverdevil] I would be delighted if I could just have my daily activity summary posted to my site.
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[cleverdevil] Exactly as Apple presents it in the Health app.
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tantek what is Health?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Health" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] It'd also be nice if a monthly rollup summary could be included.
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[cleverdevil] And then a yearly, too.
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tantek [cleverdevil]: ^^^ create a stub and a screenshot of what you like in the presentation?
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[cleverdevil] Sure.
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aaronpk yeah these are the things i haven't decided how i want to present on my site yet
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aaronpk one thought i had was to have a daily "summary" post on my day permalinks, kind of like how my tag pages have pinned posts
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[cleverdevil] Health is an [[iOS]] app from [[Apple]] that allows users to track data collected by [[HealthKit]], which includes things like sleep tracking, heart rate, steps, exercises, and more, which are collected via the [[Apple Watch]] and the [[iPhone]].
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] What is HealthKit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HealthKit" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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[cleverdevil] HealthKit is [[Apple]]'s [[iOS]] framework for collection, aggregation, and tracking of health-related data like sleep tracking, heart rate, steps, exercises and more, which are collected via the [[Apple Watch]] and the [[iPhone]].
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Loqi ok
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[cleverdevil] What is Apple Watch?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Apple Watch" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk oh right, FitBit doens't write to HealthKit :facepalm:
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tantek what is FitBit
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FitBit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] Apple Watch is a smart watch from [[Apple]] that enables health tracking through [[HealthKit]].
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is a smart watch
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Loqi A smart watch is a mobile device designed to be worn on the wrist https://indieweb.org/smart_watch
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tantek lol but what makes it "smart"?!?
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[cleverdevil] ?
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tantek and does it even tell time?
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[cleverdevil] Bleh, is there an easy way to batch upload a bunch of screenshots to the wiki?
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aaronpk sadly no
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aaronpk i usually make all the [[File:...]] links on the page first, then open a bunch of tabs
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[cleverdevil] No worries, I'll just slog through it. Not that bad ?
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[cleverdevil] Okay... https://indieweb.org/Health
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... missing one screenshot... sec.
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[cleverdevil] There we go.
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[cleverdevil] I'd love it if my daily summary was just the little black box from here: https://indieweb.org/File:Health-2.png
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[cleverdevil] Then, week: https://indieweb.org/File:Health-3.png
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[cleverdevil] Month: https://indieweb.org/File:Health-4.png
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[cleverdevil] Year: https://indieweb.org/File:Health-5.png
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[cleverdevil] Similar for sleep tracking.
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[kevinmarks] Hm, Google fit looks like I need to explicitly tell it to start
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[cleverdevil] Looks like something could be built with Workflow.
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[cleverdevil] Though, I think it'd have to be manually run on a daily basis.
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miklb_ would be nice to build/collaborate on a generic micropub Workflow that everyone could use as a base
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[kevinmarks] And it doesn't count steps if it's in my hand
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[cleverdevil] Agreed.
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[cleverdevil] I believe that there is already something that does Micropub from Workflow, but I could be wrong?
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miklb it is high on my list of itches, but haven't quite tackled it
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[cleverdevil] what is Workflow?
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Loqi Workflow is an iOS app used to automate various actions https://indieweb.org/Workflow
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miklb I think on that page there's one for posting photos to Instagram and a site
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[cleverdevil] Yup, just took a quick look.
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miklb so definitely prior art for building something more generic
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[cleverdevil] I wonder if there is a way to access HealthKit data from my Mac?
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[cleverdevil] If there is, then it'd be much easier to create something that runs there on a scheduled basis.
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miklb I don't think you can completely automate a Workflow,but you can use Launch Center Pro to schedule the action
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miklb or just a regular Reminder to run it, say if the workflow is in notification center
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[mko] cleverdevil You can access your HealthKit data via Mac if you sync your backups to your Mac, as you can extract the data from the backup. It's a very roundabout way to do it, and I'm not sure it still works on the latest version of iOS.
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[mko] The other option is to use https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/qs-access/id920297614 to export the files
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tantek this sounds like the iMessage situation a while ago before there was an OSX Messages app that got all your messages
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tantek so perhaps wait til there's an OSX Health app?
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tantek if the pattern continues
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[eddie] I believe voxpelli has a micropub workflow for posting notes that could be used as a basis
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aaronpk ah yeah that QS app is the one that exists, but you have to run it manually to export anything
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aaronpk i'd love to see them add automatic upload to a URL, but that's gonna be a bit of work and i have no idea who the developer is
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[eddie] Also, a healthkit micropub sync app is actually on my long-term brainstorms as well ? Definitely an area that interests me as you guys investigate
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aaronpk tho i'll be hanging out with the QS people in a couple months so maybe i can track down more info then :)
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voxpelli Would be lovely with a Micropub Swift library / IndieWeb SDK, I wonder if Micro.blog will bring any such thing
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[eddie] Interesting. An IndieWeb swift SDK that supports IndieAuth/Micropub/etc? That would make various iOS apps easier.
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aaronpk that may be something i could write, since it wouldn't need a UI :)
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[mko] QS Access is by the quantifiedself.com team
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voxpelli You do btw know that there's an export method built right into Health.app btw?
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voxpelli First screen, top right corner, click to profile there and at the bottom of that page "Export"
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[mko] Yeah, it just doesn't seem all that easy to use.
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[eddie] aaronpk: let me know if you do start on something like that or not. Over the next week I should be finished with my transition to DreamCompute and my micropub integration with my website. Once that is done, I’ll be beginning work on indieweb.org/indigenous so I’ll be crossing through that territory to and be able to help on that arena
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aaronpk the goal is to have something continuous without manual steps every day
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[mko] It might be a better way to export the data, though.
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[mko] In the short-term anyway
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tantek it's good recognize intermediate steps along the way
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tantek spectrum from 100% manual double-entry to manual export/import to batching that to automatic/continuous
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aaronpk omg the export is a 132mb xml file
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[eddie] yeah that file is the worst thing ever
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[eddie] I thought about trying to build a server to parse it and do a semi-manual process
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aaronpk at least it's thorough
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[cleverdevil] I am pretty sure a full app that is granted the proper permissions in iOS could automate everything.
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[cleverdevil] And actually run in the background, etc.
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[eddie] I’m not a fan of xml so I ran far far away
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: absolutely
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aaronpk "in the background" as much as iOS lets you, but there are various tricks you can do
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[cleverdevil] Everything else sounds like a bit of a hack.
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tantek yeah and that's where all those moore's law cpu & ram increases went
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tantek wasteful formats and likely layers and layers of abstractions of interpreted code to process it
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tantek because, developer productivity!
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[kevinmarks] Hm, Google fit recorded something like the old "my tracks" app, but no obvious way to export this
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dgold uses the app called 'Trails' on iOS - that exports fine, but needs to be uploaded to (in my case) known
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dgold they don't appear to do an android version
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gRegorLove Good afternoon, indieweb
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[cleverdevil] That's interesting-ish.
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[cleverdevil] https://github.com/GregWilson/react-native-apple-healthkit
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gRegorLove What is Google Fit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Fit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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@cleverdevil Yes. This thread. IndieWeb is the way forward, not Diaspora or GNU Social. https://twitter.com/keithjgrant/status/848976354817314817 (twitter.com/_/status/848988494009573376)
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aaronpk i'm finding myself wanting a page that lists all the upcoming Portland HWC dates
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471742
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471741
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471743
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471744
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Jul 12, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, May 10, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Aug 2, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Jun 7, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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GWG Good day
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aaronpk incoming
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GWG Hello, aaronpk.
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tantek Good day GWG
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GWG If I come to Portland, can you turn down the heat this year?
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aaronpk haha. i will see what I can do
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Loqi nice
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GWG I did like how the city did water though
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471748
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471745
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471747
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" on 2017-04-03 http://calagator.org/events/1250471746
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Sep 13, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Dec 6, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Nov 8, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Oct 4, 5:30pm at DreamHost
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GWG I was thinking about another vision article like the one I wrote last night
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GWG I was thinking about users
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[cleverdevil] Fun! http://inessential.com/2017/04/03/frontier_diary_1_vm_life
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GWG Hello, cleverdevil
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[cleverdevil] Hey, GWG.
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GWG How goes the good work?
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tantek that's quite the claim about "the following were either invented or popularized and fleshed-out: scripted and templated websites, weblogs, hosted weblogs, web services over http" not sure I'm buying it
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[cleverdevil] People who were big in Frontier have a very strong view about its importance in the early days of the web.
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[cleverdevil] I don't think they're necessarily wrong, it was very influential with a particular group of people, but I think he may be exaggerating a bit.
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tantek cleverdevil, yes that seems to be a common theme, especially the exaggeration part
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tantek clearly it influenced some people, however "invented or popularized" claims are very large and need evidence to back that up
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tantek for example, the claims about RSS are massively exaggerated, and repeatedly so over the years. So much so that I (and others) took time to document actual citations in /timeline
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tantek what is the timeline?
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Loqi The timeline briefly documents key IndieWeb terms/ideas/concepts, implementations, specifications, and other achievements; people involved, and dates/URLs for each https://indieweb.org/timeline
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I always found it a bit perplexing, good summary on the timeline.
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tantek basically, when people make bold claims of invention and such like that especially for older things (i.e. not immediately obviously apparent), I tend to treat them as self-serving exaggerations unless citations are provided
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tantek perhaps due to my skeptic scientist ways
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[cleverdevil] I am guessing its more likely a result of people viewing the world from their own experiences.
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tantek also anyone that in particular claims to have invented anything related to blogging should be able to cite blog post permalinks, otherwise, they weren't actually blogging were they?
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[cleverdevil] Rather than having a more broad view about the way that other people experience the world.
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tantek their own experience is irrelevant in terms of citations
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tantek they claim to have done something with blogging? great, where's your blog post permalinks?
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[cleverdevil] If you were knee deep in Frontier and it is how *you* were introduced to blogging, RSS, etc., then it may seem more influential to you personally.
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tantek even if so, you should be able to cite blog posts about it
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[cleverdevil] Makes sense.
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tantek if it wasn't blogged, it didn't really have anything to do with blogging did it?
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tantek that's the trivial debunking about blogging related "inventions"
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tantek do we have a way to represent "Recommend" an event?
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tantek e.g. note the list of Attending vs Recommend here: https://upcoming.org/event/homebrew-website-club-pdx-6rgekn5gmp
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tantek how would I "Recommend" an event on my own site? Is that a special kind of RSVP? Or is it a "review" or "rating" or something else?
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tantek a "Recommendation" seems pretty generic (could apply to lots of things) so is that a new kind of response?
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tantek like, here's a book, movie, etc. that I recommend
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aaronpk Is it like facebook's "interested" on events?
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tantek no
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tantek interested implies actual intent
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aaronpk I haven't quite figured out the meaning of it on upcoming
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tantek (to possibly attend and/or participate)
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tantek whereas recommend I think is a lighweight kind of "share" without spamming everyone
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tantek love this: "Upcoming will never be comprehensive, and it's not for everybody. That's okay."
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tantek that's the right answer for so many things, especially when people clamor for "mass adoption" or "you'll never get x without mass adoption"
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tantek aaronpk - there is "interested" separate from those two on Upcoming events!
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gRegorLove "Recommend" seems a lot like a /like there
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tantek e.g. http://archive.upcoming.org/event/2852506
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tantek which is odd as I'm pretty sure I Attended that one :)
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tantek I wonder if they lost attending/interested distinction in the data
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aaronpk hm he used a star for "recommend" too
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gRegorLove Interesting that it's a toggle between "I'm Going" and "Recommend"
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gRegorLove Can't both attend and recommend
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aaronpk i think recommending an event makes it show up to your followers
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Wasn’t aware of this. Any #indieweb folks using it? | GitHub – tootsuite/mastodon: A GNU Social-compatible microblogging server https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon" by Scott Kingery on 2017-04-03 http://techlifeweb.com/15802-2/
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tantek can't both makes it seem like an RSVP value then
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@TechLifeWeb Wasn’t aware of this. Any #indieweb folks using it? | GitHub – tootsuite/mastodon: A GNU Social-compatible microblogging server … (twitter.com/_/status/849021570521739268)
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tantek aaronpk, likely attending an event also makes it show up to your followers
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aaronpk pretty sure yeah
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aaronpk i think "recommend" is there to be able to share events with your followers even if you aren't going
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tantek so you think it may mean share
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aaronpk or a kind of repost in a way
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tantek except RSVPing undoes it?
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aaronpk tests something
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aaronpk yep, i'd say it's similar to a repost
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aaronpk https://upcoming.org/@aaronpk
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aaronpk events i recommend appear on my profile page!
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tantek could be like likes though
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tantek as we have found, sometimes tweets people like show up on their profile page
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aaronpk not on the main profile page
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tantek or many of us have our likes show up on our home pages (personal profile page)
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gRegorLove Twitter "shares" followees likes in my timeline sometimes.
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aaronpk twitter started pushing "likes" into the timeline, but not on your profile
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gRegorLove Jinx
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tantek they did start pushing followings into your pfoile
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tantek s/pfoile/profile
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tantek needs a coffee
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aaronpk that's true
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tantek that likely deserves a screenshot
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure i don't like that, but that's what happens on someone else's network
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tantek it is an interesting enough behavior
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tantek what is a following
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Loqi follow is a common button in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indieweb.org/following
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aaronpk speaking of events, I want a page on the wiki to list all the HWC PDX events. which is making me want a real events site for us even more
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tantek aaronpk would "all the HWC PDX events" be a subset of all your indie events + RSVPs?
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aaronpk i suppose so
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aaronpk tho i haven't posted indie events for all these yet
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tantek tries to find shortcuts
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tantek since no one has actually ever built a decent "real events site" that doesn't require a ton of admin / custom APIs :P
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aaronpk this is basically what I want to share http://calagator.org/events/tag/indieweb
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX
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tantek aaronpk the upcoming copy should list your indie event as the "website" for the event so you get RSVPs backfed to you
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tantek and then the description can contain the wiki URL
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aaronpk oh yeah i should totally do that
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aaronpk :sigh: time to post a bunch of indie events
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tantek heh
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tantek Quill can post events right?
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek can it clone a previous event?
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tantek the way FB lets you?
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aaronpk calagator has a clone function, it was super handy
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aaronpk i might have to add that to quill
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tantek what is create event
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Loqi create event is the act of and UI for creating a new event post, in its simplest form a new event permalink https://indieweb.org/create_event
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tantek very odd, I thought I had documented FB clone event on the wiki somewhere but I can't find it
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[kevinmarks] Known autopopulates events with the last event you posted, which is a low cost way to do it, though a smarter duplicate with date changes would be good
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[kevinmarks] FB does have something like that
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aaronpk tantek: curious why you don't think calagator is a "real events site"
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aaronpk it's a wiki, there's no admin privileges
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tantek no photos?
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aaronpk it imports from h-events as well as other sources, and has mf2 markup
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tantek no comments?
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tantek the sad thing is that Facebook is the closest thing to a "real events site" currently
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tantek can you invite someone from calagator?
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tantek can you RSVP to an event on Calagtor?
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aaronpk you can embed images with an <img> tag on calagator so that's a start i guess
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tantek only the event creator or anyone?
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aaronpk there are no accounts on calagator, anyone can edit any event
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tantek how does it show RSVPs on an event if there are no accounts?
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aaronpk calagator used to show RSVPs from i think lanyrd
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aaronpk it doesn't do native RSVPs
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tantek interesting, it proxied RSVPs
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[cleverdevil] Was just chatting with a co-worker, and showing him my Known site. His first question was an interesting one:
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[cleverdevil] He wants something that would allow him to share galleries of photos with friends and family *privately* on his own site.
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[cleverdevil] Right now, he has to use Facebook for this, and hates it.
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[cleverdevil] Is there an IndieWeb concept for this kind of "private" post?
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aaronpk there have been some experiments!
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/private#IndieWeb_Examples
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[cleverdevil] It'd be cool if I could send something roughly equivalent to a "friend request" in social network terms from my site to another person's site.
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[cleverdevil] They could "accept" it.
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[cleverdevil] Pinging back my site.
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[cleverdevil] And then I could create groups of these connections, and optionally specify visibility on posts when I create them.
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neilpdx cleverdevil: the old posterous used to do this
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neilpdx :(
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neilpdx RIP posterous
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[cleverdevil] If Known had this PLUS had the ability to create "galleries" of images (instead of just one image), it'd be awesome for that.
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[cleverdevil] That said, people would still have to have a site in order to participate.
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aaronpk well, they have to have some identifier that can be authenticated. a twitter account would work.
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[cleverdevil] Good point.
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[cleverdevil] Or even Facebook, to bridge in the old world.
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gRegorLove What is private webmention?
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Loqi The Private Webmention protocol is an extension to Webmention that supports sending and verifying Webmentions for posts that require access control https://indieweb.org/private-webmention
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aaronpk i did it manually https://indieweb.org/hwcpdx
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tantek cleverdevil do you think you need complete gallery support or is /multi-photo support enough?
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tantek compare /album to /multi-photo
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aaronpk guess i can delete my 100days syndication options now
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@seanflannagan Every product wants you to join their Slack, but would be easier to click to a website (https://spectrum.chat/ https://indieweb.org/irc/today?%29= (twitter.com/_/status/849031218859458560)
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tantek aww
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[cleverdevil] Good question, tantek, looking.
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tantek cleverdevil I'm struggling with the distinction myself (as a recent /multi-photo "implementer")
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tantek and publisher
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tantek actually no scare quotes - I just need to document it better on /Falcon - /multi-photo support is live
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aaronpk the distinction for me is whether the individual photos have their own permalinks which can accept webmentions individually, as well as whether a photo can be part of multiple albums
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[cleverdevil] I think multi-photo is fine, generally speaking.
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aaronpk (i have support for both in p3k)
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tantek aaronpk, I'm just glad no one has yet implemented *both* and created a mess
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tantek uh
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aaronpk lol
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tantek what happens when you put a /multi-photo into an album?!?
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aaronpk umm
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tantek lol
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aaronpk i haven't done that yet
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tantek steps back
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[cleverdevil] Don't cross the streams!
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[cleverdevil] ?
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aaronpk actually i know how i *could* do it
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aaronpk not sure i'd want to tho
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[cleverdevil] I'm just thinking that pretty much the only reason I'm still personally on Facebook is to share photos of my kids with my family and friends.
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tantek cleverdevil, photos turn out to be pretty close the #1 private social network use-case
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[cleverdevil] I usually have between 1 and 10 photos, optionally with captions, and people can view them all in a nice way, and then reply or like them.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, it makes total and complete sense.
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[cleverdevil] I hate literally everything else about Facebook.
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tantek "Did you get your precious photos?"
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club PDX 2017" https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/03/10/hwc-2017
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tantek Brace yourselves, the HWCPDX indie events are coming!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4nez5KE_.jpg
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[cleverdevil] Yay!
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[cleverdevil] I'm gonna try and make it to a few.
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Loqi ?
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aaronpk awesome!
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snarfed how would you all identify whether a web page is substantially part of the indieweb, thinking primarily in terms of technology?
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snarfed my current heuristic is: has a top-level mf2 class and/or advertizes a micropub or webmention endpoint
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snarfed i'm debating rel-me, but leaning toward not counting it, since i suspect lots of sites have it but aren't meaningfully indieweb otherwise
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aaronpk if more websites let you sign in to them with rel-me to see private content then i'd count it, but i think i agree with you on that
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[kevinmarks] Hm, http://webmention.com is 403
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[kevinmarks] And webmention.org is rather dated
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aaronpk https://webmention.net is mine and links to the current things
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aaronpk it's deployed from https://github.com/w3c/webmention if you have any suggestions