#indieweb 2017-04-18

2017-04-18 UTC
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miklb anyone tried to use twitter topics to thread POSSE notes?
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gRegorLove What's twitter topics, miklb?
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miklb I assume it's a Twitter thing, Tweetbot added it a while back. meant as a way to thread updates. Maybe same as a moment?
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miklb oh, it is a Tweetbot feature, but can be saved as a collection.
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miklb https://dev.twitter.com/rest/collections
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miklb so I guess the question would be is there an indieweb equivalent to a collection. I guess could just use a custom tag for the notes so could present them in order on some fashion.
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aaronpk what is a collection?
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Loqi A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indieweb.org/collection
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aaronpk oops gotta update my example there
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miklb aaronpk are you grouping by a tag, or is it something you curate?
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@frazzledjazz @RealAlexJones #ownyourcontent #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/854167049408577538)
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gRegorLove haha
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Loqi nice
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[jhsheridan] this post by pwcc seems like a great overview of what all a WP indieweb site would involve https://peterwilson.cc/one-click-indieweb-for-wordpress/
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Loqi One click indieweb for WordPress
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[jhsheridan] useful, even if slightly intimidating
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miklb [jhsheridan] not quote "one click" as the plugins are still spread out, but the IndieWeb core plugin guides you into installing the plugins (and there is effort to consolidate the plugins incrementally). A lot of those features are there though.
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miklb I've committed myself to the theme we discussed, my goal is to be able to launch it for IndieWeb Summit (albeit remotely).
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[jhsheridan] that's great
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[jhsheridan] Are you planning to merge it with underscores or something similar?
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miklb I wasn't. I appreciate what _s is, and who's behind it, but as a "not a designer", I intend to use a Sass framework and would be too much to merge them. I will use it for inspiration in places though, as I did for my site.
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[jhsheridan] I lean programmer more than designer as well. Have been working on a gulp-powered static site gen that compiles sass and minifies things, etc, etc
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[jhsheridan] let me know if you need an extra hand
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miklb in a past life I did a lot of work with the Genesis framework, could see doing something with that in the future.
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[jhsheridan] I've never dealt with it
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miklb [jhsheridan] it will be open from the beginning, so will definitely take any and all help/suggestions/etc
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[jhsheridan] awesome... I'll keep an eye out
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miklb [jhsheridan] I just started embracing using Gulp w/WP to compile & minify. Was previously just using Sass at the CLI. I'm a full Gulp convert now though.
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[jhsheridan] There is something innately wrong about having to have node to write some CSS, but, as far as I can tell, it's somehow the best solution.
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miklb lol, exactly
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[jhsheridan] I like that it can be used for a lot more too.
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miklb this post from Ben Balter last week is resonating with me regarding the theme, so I'm spending a little time to think it through. http://ben.balter.com/2017/04/14/your-projects-readme-is-your-project-constitution/
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[jhsheridan] I'll give it a read
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gRegorLove Facebook event for IndieWebCamp Bellingham is up, if you know anyone in the PNW that might be interested, or is already attending LinuxFest Northwest, send them our way: https://www.facebook.com/events/283727805371801/
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gRegorLove likes/shares/toots appreciated
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GWG toot?
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gRegorLove Mastodon /notes
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miklb or what Merlin Mann has been calling tweets for 10 years :-)
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GWG I'm not hip, I guess
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miklb So…I started a repo for the theme, so I guess that makes it a real project. lol
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GWG Yes, but you seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on it
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GWG What concerns you about it?
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miklb ?
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miklb sorry, guess I think out loud a lot.
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aaronpk miklb: my collections are manual. Otherwise it's just a tag feed
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miklb I remember now you discussing "pinned posts" for your tags page.
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aaronpk Yeah! That's been super useful!
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aaronpk Totally different thing
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miklb GWG I guess I don't want it to be half-baked, so putting a lot of thought in it and making sure it's something I can/want to commit to.
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miklb so far the answers are all yes.
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GWG I have been thinking about audience
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@sebastiangreger Tomorrow Wed 19.4. 19:00: 6th Homebrew Website Club Berlin (at Betahaus Cafe in Kreuzberg, U8/Moritzplatz) #indieweb http://sebastiangreger.net/2017/04/homebrew-website-club-berlin-2017-04-19/ (twitter.com/_/status/854210856221016064)
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miklb GWG from what perspective?
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GWG miklb: The experimental property aaronpk implemented
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miklb I'm not familiar. ACL?
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GWG What is audience?
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Loqi audience is an experimental property of a post that indicates the intended recipients (readers) of the post https://indieweb.org/audience
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miklb makes sense
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Salt is https://indiewebify.me/send-webmentions/ working for anyone else?
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miklb alas, time to sleep. good night all
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skippy what, if any, spam mitigation options exist with webmentions? it seems trivial to build spammy web pages that contain links to my posts as well as whatever spam rubbish they want linked; and then webmention my links for links back.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: there have been no reported cases of webmention spam yet, but
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KartikPrabhu what is vouch
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Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention. Webmention with Vouch depends on understanding Webmention https://indieweb.org/Vouch
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KartikPrabhu skippy: try that ^
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KartikPrabhu also one should add rel-nofollow to links contributed by external content
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skippy interesting. thanks.
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skippy makes it kind of hard for newer users to get vouch support, but I understand the dilemna.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: you are of course free to add in any other anti-spam measures on your own site
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skippy sure, I understand. I'm not trying to be critical. still learning.
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KartikPrabhu yes, didn't take it as being critical
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gRegorLove I thought rel nofollow wasn't recommended anymore?
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gRegorLove what is nofollow?
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Loqi nofollow is a rel value meant to stop search engines imputing endorsement from a link https://indieweb.org/nofollow
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gRegorLove Salt: There's been multiple reports of indiewebify.me failing to send wm, yes. webmention.rocks probably works better.
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gRegorLove Documenting in: https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/46
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: is it not?
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gRegorLove I might be mis-remembering. It's been a while. Some convo on page 3-4 here: https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=nofollow&page=3
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gRegorLove Think it still makes sense on links in comments, and for use with vouch
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KartikPrabhu yeah same here
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KartikPrabhu shuldn't put nofollow on all external links for sure specially ones that are actually in your post
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@HackerEvents IndieWebCamp on Saturday 04 November 10:00 @ Contentful (Germany) https://indiewebcamp.com/2017/Berlin (twitter.com/_/status/854243320280829953)
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[jeremycherfas] Getting a warning from my WithKnown site. `Mixed Content: The page at 'https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/first-gt-of-the-season-and-no-lemon-in-the' was loaded over HTTPS, but requested an insecure image 'http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/file/a870b8126c82690546ca1d45aa8844da'. This content should also be served over HTTPS.` I think this may be a problem with ownyourgram, or if it isn’t, I’m not sure how to fix it.
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] First G&T of the season and no lemon in the house. The shame! https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/file/84efa24f54ecc7ebac2ea96b16dd9451/thumb.jpg
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KartikPrabhu why did that ^ show up here?
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[jeremycherfas] Good question. Because Loqi saw it in my previous post here?
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KartikPrabhu oh sorry, Loqi pulling posts
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KartikPrabhu yeah, my bad
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[jeremycherfas] Nah. No problem, except that I had no lemon. ?
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[jeremycherfas] what is rel=publisher?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel=publisher" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: I get the same warnings for the user icons in rthe esponses
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sknebel and those clearly are through other channels
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[jeremycherfas] @sknebel So you are saying that this is not a problem from ownyourgram, but because withknown gets some assets from other sites that are not using https?
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: no, since they are all from your local site. with the main image via ownyourgram it would have been possible that OYG sets an http url for some reason, but if I see it right stuff like the comment avatars are cached by known itself
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sknebel so this seems like a known bug/misconfiguration to me
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sknebel (you didn't add HTTPS just recently, right?)
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[jeremycherfas] I added https weeks ago.
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[jeremycherfas] I suppose I should raise an issue with known.
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skippy webmention.io says "If you configure a web hook for a site, webmention.io will send a post request every time a webmention is received and verified. You will not receive webhooks for webmentions that are invalid." but I don't see how / where to register a web hook.
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aaronpk skippy: give me a minute and i can help. more like 30 minutes
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skippy no rush. i'm not in a position to implement right now. still gathering data to make an imeplemtnation plan.
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skippy if there's docs / a gist / howto i can read. thanks!
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martymcguire[m] skippy: once you log in to webmention.io there is a dashboard page: https://webmention.io/dashboard
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martymcguire[m] it includes a "Web Hook" section where you can enter a URL for a web hook and an optional secret key for wm.io to pass along for verification.
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martymcguire[m] if i understand correctly, each domain that you've logged into wm.io with will have a webhook option box on that page.
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skippy i see no such options. does it not show those options until I actually add the <link rel=...> bits to my site(s)?
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aaronpk You'll need to receive a webmention first
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skippy ah. okay
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skippy thanks!
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@grigs Learned about Bridgy because they are a sponsor of IndieWeb Summit coming to Portland in June. I hope to attend. https://2017.indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/854370426667008000)
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb.
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snarfed hey cleverdevil
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[jeremycherfas] Hey cleverdevil: have you been engaging more on the Google group for WithKnown than here?
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[cleverdevil] I've tried both. Neither gets much in the way of a response.
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[cleverdevil] Pull requests also stay open for very long periods.
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aaronpk still has some open pull requests
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[cleverdevil] It's a time of transition for the project I think, but it's sort of sad to see :/
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[cleverdevil] It might be valuable for a few of us to volunteer to police pull requests (review, merge, etc.)
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snarfed mapkyca has been doing that for a while
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aaronpk i was never clear on his role. is he "official"? does he have to review everything? should others be stepping up to help review?
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snarfed and benwerd has made noises that he might have a bit more time for it now that he's in a different job and matter's application deadline has passed for this upcoming class
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snarfed knows nothing official
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I think just a frank conversation between the appropriate parties would help.
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[jeremycherfas] After all the reassurances that “nothing would change” I had been hoping that things would change — for the better.
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jaduncan[m] I want to apologise to you all.
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jaduncan[m] Today I changed my main domain to Known.
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jaduncan[m] Naturally this would bring such issues. ;)
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[cleverdevil] Haha.
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Loqi [cleverdevil]: lol
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[cleverdevil] Known is a great platform, and I think it *can* have a bright future.
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[cleverdevil] But, it could definitely use a shot in the arm from a leadership perspective.
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[cleverdevil] Its pretty easy to work with, and has a lot of potential.
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snarfed erin jo is definitely still working on the business and product full time
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snarfed but not the code or repo much
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, Ben mentioned that.
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[cleverdevil] Which is awesome! I'm glad that there's a business still operating.
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snarfed maybe. sometimes when a project also has to be a Product or Business, or when people think that, it sometimes seems like an albatross around its neck
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snarfed projects definitely need sustainable funding. there are just lots of different shapes and sizes between full-fledged startup and all-volunteer.
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skippy what is the "correct" (or preferred?) way to handle webmentions to the root of a site? Should I not put <link rel...> tags on my home page,but only on content pages?
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snarfed skippy: totally up to you!
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martymcguire[m] skippy: many folks accept mentions of their homepage for various reasons
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snarfed example: http://www.kevinmarks.com/
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martymcguire[m] see /mentions and /person-tag
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martymcguire[m] i show mine at https://martymcgui.re/mentions/
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jaduncan[m] I wonder if Known has a slightly different deal, though. Matter are VCs, and thus almost certainly have growth targets for continued funding. I wouldn't be that surprised if erin jo is doing a lot of biz dev/sales work.
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[cleverdevil] I'm sure that's what she's doing. Busy building sites, working on selling and marketing, etc.
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[cleverdevil] Things that drive revenue.
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miklb GWG is there a filter or setting I'm missing to not add a title when retrieving a URL for a reply or quote?
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snarfed huh a couple new FB API changes announced at F8 look relevant to us
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snarfed 1. opening up their venue db (much more): https://developers.facebook.com/products/places
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snarfed 2. better "URL engagement" API (ie likes reactions etc on shared links): https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.9/url
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@voxpelli @persand Momentumet för @indiewebcamp med vänner blir bara större för var dag som går ;) WebMention och Micropub på god väg genom W3C (twitter.com/_/status/854409045654065152)
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@josemurilo #indieweb~#Mastodon não tem usuários, tem pessoas. Você pode até chamá-los de membros (das instâncias), não usuários https://ecodigital.social/@josemurilo/7544 (twitter.com/_/status/854410547890184197)
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@ncollig_net @rMdes_ \o/ And @HwcBrussels meeting on Thursday in Brussels! #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/854419671050792961)
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snarfed ugh wordpress webmention + semantic linkbacks keep regressing further and further back for me :( e.g. https://snarfed.org/2017-04-18_24079#comment-2603911
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Loqi Aaron Gibson
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aaronpk Oh dear.
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aaronpk I think that's a Known issue tho?
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aaronpk i submitted a PR for the Known markup for likes/bookmarks recently
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snarfed maybe!
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GWG snarfed, we need more active developers on it. I have done a lot of stuff, but it is far from finished.
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GWG miklb, not specifically, but you can propose it
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GWG The parsing section has not been touched in a long while
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aaronpk if you look at the parsed version of that URL, it's missing the 'like-of' property and the 'name' is a mess https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fknown.aegibson.me%2F2017%2Fsnarfedorg-1
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miklb GWG will do.
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aaronpk i don't know how that markup ever worked, it was kind of a mess. i fixed it here https://github.com/idno/Known/pull/1690
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GWG I am working on trying to fold Webmentions for Comments into Webmentions... because one less plugin.
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miklb GWG I saw a similar issue, so added to that.
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gRegorLove !tell funwhilelost Awesome on starting Seattle HWC! Did you see we're having an IWC in Bellingham? Would be great if you could join. /2017/Bellingham
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Salt !tell funwhilelost o/ look forward to making a future Seattle HWC and wrangling you into an October IWC
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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skippy "Known issue". The irony is rich.
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Salt gRegorLove, I recall there being a way to send webmentions without implementing the functionality (super low on time), can that be done through webmention.rocks? or was it a page on indieweb.org itself?
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aaronpk https://telegraph.p3k.io/ and https://indiewebify.me
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gRegorLove Salt: To send *from* your site? You can use curl
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gRegorLove I think you're just referring to your rsvp post, right?
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Salt right
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gRegorLove Oh, hey. Discovered https://2017.indieweb.org/webmention.php
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gRegorLove Presumably that works if changing the target to /bellingham
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aaronpk oh yeah i forgot i did that :)
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gRegorLove woot! Attendees incoming for IWC Bellingham
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Loqi ?
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gRegorLove skippy: I think that makes issues for all other software "Un-Known issues" right? :)
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miklb has lots of un-known issues
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skippy heh
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miklb btw, everyone say hi to skippy. He just switched to Hugo and is exploring indieweb things, has had a blog for a long time.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Reply to Rachel Andrew’s “It’s more than just the words”" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-18 http://boffosocko.com/2017/04/18/reply-to-rachel-andrews-its-more-than-just-the-words/
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skippy hi everyone!
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skippy i'm mulling over how to add webmentions to a static site. Or if it's too much hassle for too little personal benefit at this time.
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gRegorLove o/ skippy
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gRegorLove What is webmention.herokuapp.com?
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Loqi webmention.herokuapp.com is http://voxpelli.com/avatar.jpgPelle Wessman's Webmention endpoint as a service, for both receiving and displaying (via JS embed) webmentions https://indieweb.org/webmention.herokuapp.com
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gRegorLove skippy ^ That's one option
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aaronpk what is webmention.io?
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Loqi webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indieweb.org/webmention.io
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aaronpk and another one ^
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aaronpk the herokuapp.com one has more of a UI built in. webmention.io just makes the data available as JSON and you have to embed it with your own JS
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voxpelli ? that wasn't a nice looking summary for my endpoint (the Heroku one - which has embed option, hosted mention pages and JSON API)
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gRegorLove Once some PRs get into php-mf2, should resolve those img URLs
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gRegorLove Actually, think they're in master, just not a new release
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voxpelli gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 85 karma in this channel (116 overall)
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miklb GWG I'm going to try and incorporate my comment form & custom query into standard get form/get comments so I can start using/testing the comment webmentions
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skippy thanks all.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Domain Swap!" on 2017-04-18 http://calagator.org/events/1250471801
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Loqi Domain Swap! on Tuesday, Apr 25, 7:00pm at Migration Brewery
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funwhilelost @gRegorLove - thanks! I'd love to join you guys for that.
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Loqi funwhilelost: Salt left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: o/ look forward to making a future Seattle HWC and wrangling you into an October IWC
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Loqi funwhilelost: gRegorLove left you a message 1 hour, 40 minutes ago: Awesome on starting Seattle HWC! Did you see we're having an IWC in Bellingham? Would be great if you could join. /2017/Bellingham
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funwhilelost @Salt me, too! And hopefully windsurfing soon. Small world!
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funwhilelost lol, excuse the non-IRC mentions... I guess that's faux pas from all the Slack users by now.
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@rachelandrew @ChrisAldrich I already know about Indieweb and all of the things mentioned, thanks. (twitter.com/_/status/854461369688539136)
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funwhilelost Terse.
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[keithjgrant] ?
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martymcguire[m] Hmm.
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