#indieweb 2017-04-25

2017-04-25 UTC
rrix joined the channel
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tantek
speakin gof
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tantek
when is HWC?
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tantek
when is next-HWC?
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-04-19 at Betahaus Café https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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rrix
hey that's me
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tantek
rrix++ hey! and yes definitely!
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Loqi
rrix has 1 karma
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rrix
long time no see
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tantek
indeed
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rrix
writing words on his website for the first time in six months
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rrix
i started re-writing my silly org-mode thing in to an even sillier general purpose knowledge graph
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rrix
also my matrix-irc bridge keeps disconnecting me from freenode
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tantek
what is sudoroom
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "sudoroom" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek
what is self-hosting
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "self-hosting" yet. Would you like to create it?
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rrix
Sudoroom is a hackerspace in Oakland, California https://sudoroom.org/
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tantek
I dislike Twitter's new reply UI - I can't easily scroll to the top of a thread to see where it startd
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tantek
I have to keep clicking the most recent reply-context
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rrix
yeah, it feels like a bad hackathon project :(
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tantek
I mean I realize I have this own problem on my own site, but this is a *regression* for Twitter
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tantek
rrix were you able to preserve your permalinks?
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rrix
I haven't shipped anything yet, it's still the org-mode thinger
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rrix
but when I do, I'm going to rewrite the URLs or support non-canonical URLs in the engine
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tantek
are you changing canonical URLs?
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rrix
I still need to migrate my old-old org-mode blog to the old org-mode blog >_<
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@rrrrrrrix
Strongly considering becoming a militant copyleft advocate. Anything else in 2017 feels irresponsible. https://home.rix.si/git/memex/memex/commit/3b58d8b3b8a30e3ce01a7eee4605325366d89f45
(twitter.com/_/status/856655117164044289)
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rrix
Unsure, there's not actually any web frontend to this thing yet :)
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tantek
rrix lol oh dear
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rrix
and wont' be for quite a while, I think
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tantek
^^^ points to that home.rix.si URL
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rrix
I'm working on solving my "brain forgets things I need to remember" issue right now
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tantek
might suggest doing that one use-case at a time
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rrix
and then adding a "other people could benefit from seeing/reading this thing" layer when that's in a good place
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tantek
it creates more easily hotswappable solutions
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rrix
Right now this thing just ingests web browser history, and stores textual snapshot of the page
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tantek
whereas the "put everything in a giant knowledge graph!" approach tends to cause you to get stuck with whatever that one thing is, or constantly maintaining it, or being very scared when you migrate
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rrix
The data model is stupid enough that dumping JSON blobs of each item in the store and doing ... something with them makes me feel mostly safe with it, but that's a good thing to keep remembering
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rrix
case in point: the two unmerged instances of my blog
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tantek
uh, nothing simple about "JSON blobs"
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rrix
and hell those are the same file format, just different representation of the post metadata
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tantek
because now you've already picked a second representation in addition to the human-friendly one that you see / edit
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rrix
nod
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rrix
I already have that with my current solution though
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tantek
this is literally why I started with flat HTML storage files I could immediately *view* in a browser and see the data, and then edit the markup
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tantek
using markdown (plus a markdown browser add-on) would be similar
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rrix
yeah
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tantek
as long as you used conservative markdown that was actually readable
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tantek
instead of all the crap that's in it that violates markdown principle #1
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tantek
(which no one seems to mind in practice, that is, it feels like cargocultism trumps principles)
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rrix
I'm pretty sure I only know enough markdown to write repository readmes, and I like it that way
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tantek
that's a good strategy
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tantek
Kevinmarks
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tantek
What if I told you, Webfinger has no test suite, nor a validator?
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tantek
nope, wrong meme Loqi
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KartikPrabhu
lol! Loqi meme fail
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rrix
Loqi: <3
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KevinMarks
./well-known/ all the things
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KartikPrabhu
waits for someone to make WebToes
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: AFAIK there is no Unix "toe" command
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aaronpk
WebTail
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aaronpk
and we already have WebCat
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KartikPrabhu
there is a "finger" command!
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tantek
wow JS on sucks battery life way more than when NOSCRIPT is on
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tantek
and noises up the fan
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KevinMarks
Yo dawg, I heard you liked well-known rels, so I put your webfinger in a lrrd
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tantek
wow that fit
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tantek
what is Hackpad?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Hackpad" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek
Hackpad is an interactive collaborative document editing silo that was acquired by [[Dropbox]] and is shutting down on 2017-07-19 (email to users). Existing users were encouraged in a 2017-04-21 email to try using [[Dropbox Paper]] instead, with the options of importing Hackpad pads into Paper, or exporting your pads into a single zip folder, or do nothing and let pads be automatically migrated to Paper on 2017-07-19, or opt out of
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tantek
auto-migration to and have pads deleted on 2017-07-19.
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tantek
when is the next IndieWebCamp?
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Loqi
what
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tantek
the next IndieWebCamp is /2017/Bellingham
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KartikPrabhu
so OAuth does not have a good "nuance" of permissions?
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KartikPrabhu
that is also a problem with most mobile apps; they seem to want access to everything when you install
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[pfefferle]
good morning
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Loqi
[pfefferle]: strk left you a message 9 hours, 35 minutes ago: to take a look at https://github.com/openid/php-openid/pull/134 (and https://github.com/openid/php-openid/issues/138) please
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Loqi
*yawn*
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[pfefferle]
!tell strk sure, but I am no editor to the php-openid lib, so I can't help much... sorry
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
Good morning
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strk
[pfefferle]: hi
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Loqi
strk: [pfefferle] left you a message 7 minutes ago: sure, but I am no editor to the php-openid lib, so I can't help much... sorry
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strk
I think I filed a PR to wordpress too
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strk
wordpress-openid, that is
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strk
ah ok not a PR yet, but the issue yes [pfefferle]
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[strk] #48 Fails to find link attributes in HTML with uppercase HEAD tags
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[pfefferle]
strk sure, but I think we discussed it before... I would prefer to not edit the php lib for WordPress, because the changes might get lost if I had to update the lib again ?
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Loqi
[pfefferle]: strk left you a message 2 minutes ago: here it is https://github.com/diso/wordpress-openid/issues/48
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: That's one angle, yes. But in this instance Unroll.me sold anonymized user's data, Lyft receipts, to Uber.
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GWG
Hello, pfefferle. Long time
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[pfefferle]
how is europe?
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GWG
pfefferle, here for work. Fine though
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GWG
Trying to figure out my next Indieweb task. I need to skip comments till I have a better solution
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[pfefferle]
I would like to add unit tests to the semantic linkbakcs plugin
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[pfefferle]
at least for the parser
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[pfefferle]
there are so many different templates out there so it is really hard to test all by hand
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GWG
pfefferle, I wish I did better at those to assist
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[pfefferle]
I did a great job bootstapping the test env for the webmention plugin!
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GWG
If you are able to design one or two. I might be able to extend, but I find it hard to figure out testing
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[pfefferle]
I mean "you" did a great job ?
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GWG
It was the only testing I did, and I used the Webmention Rocks tests implemented locally
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[pfefferle]
works perfectly thou
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GWG
I just don't know how to design tests
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[pfefferle]
I hope I will find some time... I started rewriting the pubsubhubbub plugin, to be more websub compliant...
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GWG
I do want to look at the parsing code though.
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GWG
I did some work on the code in Post Kinds that does that and might be able to do the same
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GWG
The mf2 handler
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GWG
I may be worried I can't write tests for it, but I can try to improve it
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GWG
It has been largely untouched while the community has increased the complexity of their markup
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[colinwalker]
Morning all.
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[colinwalker]
Thanks to miklb realised the issue I was having with likes was actually a known issue (no pun intended) with how Known had sent it.
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[colinwalker]
I've closed the issue on GitHub.
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GWG
Glad it worked out
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker I had a look at the known code and it seemed ok
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker and it is displayed correctly on your page
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Loqi
Kevin's in London Drinks
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[colinwalker]
pfefferle That's because I've applied a workaround ?
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker ah ok ? but please re-open it, I can't see what known is doing wrong
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[colinwalker]
I sent some other likes (from WordPress) and they are labelled correctly.
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[colinwalker]
OK will re-open
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GWG
pfefferle, I think it is a combination of how Known marks it up and how Semantic markup interprets it. That is why I want to work on the handler.
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker GWG I think that is the point... there are a loot of "correct" ways to markup a like and that makes it hard to handle all...
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[colinwalker]
I've not even got that 'like of' in my comments.
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[colinwalker]
Scratch that - thought it was for something else
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[pfefferle]
the like-of is the recommendet property to send likes, but the plugin also supports rel="like" and class="u-like"
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GWG
pfefferle, when I did the mf2 code in Post Kinds, I kept throwing we examples at it to test. I may do that again
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GWG
Build a simple UI for the mf2 parser in Semantic Linkbacks to display what it returns from a given URL
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[pfefferle]
I wrote the initial plugin against voxpellis webmention tester
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[colinwalker]
I'm sending class="u-like-of" and that is recognised correctly.
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker it is not only the attribute, but also where you put it... known seems to add it outside of the h-cite/h-entry... if you send a post, it is inside the h-entry
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker so the parser adds it to different levels of the JSON tree
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[pfefferle]
colinwalker and that makes it so hard to check the mention type
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[colinwalker]
Understood.
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GWG
pfefferle, I know. But I want to try to get it catching more
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[pfefferle]
but known is very wide spread, so we should support it asap...
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[colinwalker]
Yeah, it seems to be getting very popular.
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GWG
pfefferle, I will start playing around
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strk
[pfefferle]: ah, now I understand - but you could test it and report upstream if you like it or not, as I think the upstream maintainer (openid-php) is having prolems testing that path
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strk
it's easy to try: just use uppercase tags in your openid page, and it will fail (an uppercase <HEAD> tag is enough to break it)
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[kevinmarks]
reading LRRD again, if we just drop the host-meta bit it's pretty much what we do https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hammer-discovery-06
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[pfefferle]
strk thanks for closing the issues, but you missed my comment on the issue ?
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[pfefferle]
!tell strk I can't influence the "INTERESTED IN DEVELOPMENT?" section, it is auto generated by WordPress.org https://github.com/diso/wordpress-openid/issues/49
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[strk] #49 Browse sources links to a forbidden page
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Sending likes and replies using custom fields" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-25 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/ewuTcq3mZp0/
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miklb
this seems like a slippery slope "but known is very wide spread, so we should support it asap..." especially if the question is whether known is properly marking up the webmentions
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miklb
to current spec
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ben_thatmustbeme
miklb: huh? context?
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ben_thatmustbeme
n/m i see it
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ben_thatmustbeme
thought that was in response to a link
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miklb
sorry, should have linked to the comment
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats okay, was also confused by the wording
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonders if he should point the discussion to #indieweb-wordpress
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually, its not bridged yet
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is a microformat-tests git repo, it contains a good set of html and resulting json
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Loqi
[KartikPrabhu] so OAuth does not have a good "nuance" of permissions?
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aaronpk
OAuth, and especially Google, actually provides a great deal of granularity of permissions when you authorize an app
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aaronpk
for example, an app can request access to be able to read only the labels and headers of messages, but not the body
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aaronpk
or send emails on your behalf but not read emails
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miklb
ben_thatmustbeme have a link to the repo? I can add it to the issue in the WP plugin that precipitated that discussion
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aaronpk
the problem is more that unroll.me needs to be able to read your emails to work, and then they went and sold that data
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Loqi
[microformats] tests: Microformats test suite
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gRegorLove
I was confused by that like-of / Known chatter, too. Example links would be good.
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aaronpk
i have a PR to Known to fix an issue with likes/bookmarks btw, would appreciate another set of eyes on it if someone wants to try it out https://github.com/idno/Known/pull/1690
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Loqi
[aaronpk] #1690 fixes bookmark Microformats markup
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miklb
ben_thatmustbeme thanks. added to the issue discussion in GH
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aaronpk
what GH discussion is this?
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miklb
aaronpk the one that brought about this irc discussion this morning https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/issues/82#issuecomment-296945983
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Loqi
[colin-walker] Re-opening as requested.
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miklb
colinwalker thought there was a bug in the WP plugin, turns out was how the plugin stored the known like
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miklb
very convoluted
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miklb
chicken/egg almost
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gRegorLove
chrisaldrich's like mf2 appears correct there to me.
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aaronpk
it does
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miklb
then it is a bug in how the WP plugin interprets the mf2 and stores it.
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[jeremycherfas]
One of the indieweb plugins is playing havoc with the presentation of my site, making visible things that I had made invisible with CSS. Not sure yet which one.
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miklb
not how it parses the stored data.
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miklb
but I've learned with mf2, sometimes the code "appears correct" and "is correct" are two different things ?
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miklb
[jeremycherfas] that sounds frustrating
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gRegorLove
I think someone else just recently reported that to GWG. I forget who, or if there was a fix yet.
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miklb
[jeremycherfas] you can `wp_deregister_style` and `wp_dequeue_style` the plugins so you don't have to disable them tot test
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miklb
I turned off the kind and indieweb plugin stylesheets myself
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gRegorLove
Using the dev tools "inspect element" will usually identify the name/path of the stylesheet overriding
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[jeremycherfas]
Let me investigate. Whatever it is seems to be adding `<aside` in front of my `entry-meta`
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miklb
that's odd. that's a post-formats class iirc, so most likely from the post-kinds.
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miklb
maybe your theme has support for post-formats and the kinds plugin is mapping a note to an aside
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[jeremycherfas]
I don’t actually have post kinds enabled.
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[jeremycherfas]
And the actual post format is standard, not aside
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[jeremycherfas]
The theme is pretty ancient, and I’ve been thinking of moving to one of the more indieweb themes, but that’s so much work. ?
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[jeremycherfas]
I don’t have that many posts, maybe 200, but they involve my podcasts and I need to think hard before I change too much. On the other hand, may be better to do that thinking before I get too much further with indiewebifying.
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[colinwalker]
aaronpk Funny you should mention your PR on known as I got a bookmark from jeremycherfas that is also only seen as mention - presumably why
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aaronpk
probably!
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[jeremycherfas]
Ah. Anything I can do about that? I shared that one via Quill.
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[jeremycherfas]
Looking in detail, my child theme is such a mess, I should certainly consider going back to square one and either constructing a “proper” child theme or else switch now to one of the indieweb-enabled themes.
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[jeremycherfas]
But I quite like my current look.
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Do you have templates for IWC name badges? Thinking the 2014 / 2015 printed ones, not the lanyards.
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gRegorLove
s/name/domain/
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aaronpk
i might!
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[colinwalker]
jeremycherfas it made me realise mine needed a tweak so it's not all bad ? But seriously, I hear you. The theme I'm using is a highly modified version that I've pulled apart and added to so there's probably all sorts in there that shouldn't be.
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[jeremycherfas]
I really like your theme, but not for this particular site of mine. So, I think I need to bite one bullet or the other. Probably cleaning up the child theme, for now.
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[chrisaldrich]
jeremycherfas did you ever install the Post Kinds plugin on that site? iirc i think that it will/can persist in some of its outputs even if it's disabled after the fact.
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[chrisaldrich]
If this is the case, you may have set your default for posts as an aside which could be injected into all the posts and potentially still be causing your issues after deactivation.
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[chrisaldrich]
Or rather your default Kind was set to note which could have auto set the post format to aside. I think there was a small window recently when the code may have done something like this.
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tantek
gRegorLove: good point re: name badges - maybe an update with the new logo?
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aaronpk
i believe i have a script that generated a PDF with the names. i'll dig that up
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gRegorLove
Looks like we'll have a small turnout for Bellingham, but that's ok. First year, plus it's on weekdays. Looking forward to more focused conversations and more time to work on stuff.
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[jeremycherfas]
chrisaldrich I honestly cannot remember. I think it was another WP site where I activated Post Kinds. I’m going to try and see how hard it would be to duplicate the content of my current static home page in SemPress or similar.
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[jeremycherfas]
My current child’s parent looks like it has been abandoned anyway — nothing for more than 2 years — so the investment in a new child is probably long overdue.
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@gRegorLove
Looking forward to IndieWebCamp Bellingham next week. Interested in advancing the independent web? Join us! https://2017.indieweb.org/bellingham
(twitter.com/_/status/856915479381909505)
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KartikPrabhu
[jeremycherfas]: that sounds very sad
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[jeremycherfas]
Always sad to see an abandoned parent.
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gRegorLove
I did mis-read "current child's parent" as in humans and was very confused by the terminology for a moment.
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[jeremycherfas]
Actually, Independent Publisher theme looks rather interesting. With a bit of tweaking for the presentation of post kinds, it could satisfy my needs. But I’m going to keep looking too.
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gRegorLove
drinks more coffee
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[jeremycherfas]
That was deliberate gregorlove
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gRegorLove
Yeah, I get it in WP terms now :)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • February 25 - March 3, 2017" by Marty M on 2017-03-17 https://known.schmarty.net/2017/this-week-in-the-indieweb-audio-edition-february-25
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[colinwalker]
Oh, the benefit of coming in _after_ that exchange had run its course
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[mko]
Has anyone ever tried to POSSE or export their Activity Log from Facebook into something usable for archival purposes (i.e. ActivityStreams JSON)?
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[mko]
Couldn't find any good references on the wiki
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tantek
mko I think you can get AS1 from FB using granary?
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tantek
what is granary
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Loqi
granary is a library and REST API that frees you from social network snowflake API and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, Atom, XML, and more https://indieweb.org/granary
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[mko]
Oh. I meant the actual `allactivity` page contents.
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[mko]
Not just Facebook content.
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@aaronpk
@andrewmiguelez There are many approaches tho, join #microformats if you want to chat more! We have a Slack bridge: https://chat.indieweb.org/slack
(twitter.com/_/status/856930840479055872)
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[mko]
There's a substantial amount of "hidden" social activity that Facebook doesn't expose in a way that Granary can currently get to it (that I can see anywys)
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tantek
what is allactivity
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "allactivity" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[mko]
The `allactivity` page is private only to the user and shows every social interaction on the site that is tracked on Facebook (see https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/allactivity ).
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[mko]
If you look, the HTML is basically garbage, so it's not really set up for parsing into ActivityStreams or Microformats or anything else structured off the bat, hence why I was wondering if anyone had tried to parse it out yet.
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gRegorLove
That'd be cool if there's a way to consume it. Not aware of one offhand.
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[mko]
Yeah. It got me thinking because it holds the keys to some of the most interesting content, most notably the timeliness of Likes and interactions with other people that do not generate posts on the user's own page.
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tantek
mko, that strikes me as the kind of thing snarfed would want even just for himself
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tantek
I wonder what he's explored
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gRegorLove
SO says "not possible" as of 2012 http://stackoverflow.com/a/10077816
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[mko]
Oh, I know that there's no current way to do it except maybe some sort of "hack" that has a basic knowledge of the HTML structures of the page and knows how to extract particular interactions from it.
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[mko]
Just was hoping someone had already done so.
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tantek
also sounds like an unmung opportunity (KevinMarks), since unmung is all about unmunging whatever random feed format thingie you have into something readable (and parseable!) in HTML :)
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[mko]
Yeah. It's easy enough to "archive" it (along with all the related content). The drawbacks are that it's time consuming, and it's not really usable for anything meaningful.
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@aaronpk
@andrewmiguelez You can join via Slack! https://chat.indieweb.org/slack There's a #microformats channel there connected to IRC
(twitter.com/_/status/856935795264847872)
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GWG
Work over...time for food and Indiewebfun
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@ProfZappo
So, dann werkle ich mal weiter an meiner Unabhängigkeit von Twitter etc. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/856937478275690496)
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gRegorLove
indiewebfun++
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Loqi
indiewebfun has 1 karma
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GWG
gRegorLove: I have some ideas on stuff I want to do.
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tantek
GWG can you make it to 2017-06-23 Leaders Summit? https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#RSVP
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GWG
tantek, the fares were $600 each way, if they come down, I am in, otherwise I may remote
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GWG
I could RSVP maybe
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tantek
please do!
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aaronpk
ouch, that's expensive!
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tantek
yes that's ridiculous
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tantek
GWG even on United? ;)
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GWG
The only other nonstop is Delta
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GWG
It went down to$349 each way
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GWG
Wonder if I should give it till next week
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@HongPong
oh boy Linkback module I've been fiddling around on w others, now dev release! https://www.drupal.org/project/linkback #DrupalCon #Drupal #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/856946861114101764)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Sending likes and replies using custom fields in WordPress" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-25 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/04/25/sending-likes-and-replies-using-custom-fields
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tantek
GWG, that's a good sign that we should be promoting IndieWeb Summit early and often right now
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GWG
tantek, I will tell everyone I know who is interested.
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gRegorLove
Any venue options for IWS?
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aaronpk
I have a lead
[cleverdevil], snarfed, nitot, [dgold], KartikPrabhu, wolftune and snarfed1 joined the channel
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Today is My Third Indieweb Anniversary" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-25 http://boffosocko.com/2017/04/25/today-is-my-third-indieweb-anniversary/
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tantek
woot!
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Loqi
woot
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tantek
chrisaldrich++
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Loqi
chrisaldrich has 23 karma in this channel (30 overall)
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[chrisaldrich]
I wasn't as productive as some who've been working on 100days projects, but it was an interesting exercise to look back at the past year a bit.
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[chrisaldrich]
Special thanks to everyone here for all the help over those years!
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
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[cleverdevil]
chrisaldrich++
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Loqi
chrisaldrich has 24 karma in this channel (31 overall)
snarfed, funwhilelost, singpolyma, squeakytoy, wolftune, leg and hs0ucy joined the channel
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Liked Chris Aldrich's Today is My Third Indieweb Anniversary" by Andrew Jacobs on 2017-04-25 http://www.funwhilelost.com/2017/liked-chris-aldrichs-today-is-my-third-indieweb-anniversary-2e4fc93e5b
[kevinmarks], [cleverdevil], wolftune and loicm_ joined the channel
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Today is my third Indieweb Anniversary" by Srikanth Perinkulam on 2017-04-25 https://srikanthperinkulam.com/2017/04/25/today-is-my-third-indieweb-anniversary/
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