#indieweb 2017-04-28

2017-04-28 UTC
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[kevinmarks] Home open tabs not using micropub?
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KartikPrabhu also what happens if you close the browser, is it 0 tabs?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Forked KnownReactions" by Michael Runcieman on 2017-04-28 http://michael.runcieman.com/2017/forked-knownreactions
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Loqi [superfeedr] "First post to micro.blog" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-04-28 http://boffosocko.com/2017/04/27/first-post-to-micro-blog/
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skippy !tell sknebel thanks for pointing me to bestmotherfucking.website. I just submitted a PR. That'll be a fun one to tweet about. ;)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Re: micro.blog "The timeline covers the last few days. Because the real content lives on other web sites, there's no need to store everything on Micro.blog itself. This keeps everything lightweight and fast."
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gRegorLove Does that mean http://c.micro.blog/2017/04/28/finally-checking-out.html will go away in a few days? It's syndicated from boffosocko.com
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Loqi April 28, 2017 Finally checking out the awesomeness that is micro.blog! Can’t wait to see how it dovetails and extends the #indieweb
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove: That URL in particular is a hosted blog, so the content will live there forever. I think he's talking about if I were to map my self-hosted blog over, and then that would disappear from their "stream" eventually knowing that the content physically lives on my own site.
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[chrisaldrich] Eventually I'll switch over to my own hosted site, but like you mentioned before, I wanted to see what the UI/UX was for the hosted side.
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, I'm curious where you saw that quote, I don't think I'd run across it and I was curious how he was planning on handling the long term portion, particularly for search.
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-28.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tamaracks] Hello. I’m having some trouble with the IndieWeb WordPress plugin. A few of the plugins/extensions are activated in WordPress, but aren’t recognized by the IndieWeb plugin, as in it tells me they aren’t installed on its Extensions list.
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gRegorLove [chrisaldrich]: It's on https://micro.blog/about
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[chrisaldrich] tamaracks did you install them through the Indieweb plugin, or separately?
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[tamaracks] Separately. It’s not easy/recommended by my host (NearlyFreeSpeech) to use WordPress, because of FTP. But it wasn’t a problem with most of the plugins. I think it’s because the plugins I’m having trouble with are not hosted on wordpress.org.
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[chrisaldrich] thanks gRegorLove
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gRegorLove Hm, April 25 and 26 events showing up in the newsletter
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gRegorLove Oh, recent, not upcoming.
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[chrisaldrich] tamaracks I haven't seen/heard of that issue before. Even if the IndieWeb plugin doesn't recognize that they're installed, you should be fine as long as they're there and activated.
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[tamaracks] Ok. I just wasn’t sure if there were any settings I’d be missing, since some of the plugins showed up under IndieWeb in the menu on the left.
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[chrisaldrich] That plugin is meant to help make it easier to get the half dozen related plugins a bit quicker and easier.
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[tamaracks] I haven’t quite figured out what these all do yet, in order to test them. ?
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[chrisaldrich] many of them don't have settings: webmention, micropub, semantic linkbacks
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[chrisaldrich] a few others like bridgy publish and post kinds do have settings and they should appear under the indieweb tab.
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[chrisaldrich] If you haven't found it https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress should be mostly up to date about the details for setting things up in at least a rudimentary way.
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[tamaracks] I haven’t figured out brid.gy yet. I don’t quite get the interactions between it and Jetpack.
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[tamaracks] Yeah, I’ve been following that.
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[chrisaldrich] Jetpack is usually used to /POSSE (or syndicate) content from your site to other sites like Twitter and Facebook.
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[chrisaldrich] Brid.gy helps you /backfeed your likes and comments from Twitter and Facebook back to your site
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[chrisaldrich] If you use it, Bridgy Publish can help you to do the syndication as well.
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[tamaracks] Like I get a message in brid.gy “Warning: your blog’s current webmention endpoint is https://www.darkglass.org/?rest_route=/webmention/1.0/endpoint. If you want Bridgy to handle your blog’s webmentions, change it to https://brid.gy/webmention/wordpress.” But I’m not sure if that has to do with syndication or backfeed.
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[chrisaldrich] Are you accidentally clicking on the WordPress.com button?
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[chrisaldrich] For bridgy and a wordpress.ORG set up you should only be configuring the Twitter, Facebook, et al. buttons (and NOT the wordpress.com one)
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[chrisaldrich] I would hope that https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy is mostly complete by now, but let me know if you have problems following that.
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[tamaracks] Well, I did click on wordpress.com to log in, because I didn’t see any other way, but it lets you choose the self-hosted site (linked to wordpress.com as part of Jetpack) as part of the setup.
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gRegorLove On Bridgy, you want to click on the services you want to get /backfeed from, like Twitter or Facebook
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[chrisaldrich] If you're self-hosing wordpress, just use the social media silo buttons to connect the services. You shouldn't use the wordpress.com button.
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gRegorLove You're connecting Bridgy to those services, then it monitors them and sends webmentions back to your site
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[tamaracks] Okay, I’ll try logging in that way on Bridgy.
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gRegorLove You can connect as many or as few services as you want
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gRegorLove Each is its own authorization really, rather than a "Bridgy account"
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[tamaracks] Ah ha.
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[tamaracks] That might be what I was missing.
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gRegorLove It is a little confusing at first, especially since it's common to see "Log in to our site with Twitter, FB, x, y, z"
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[tamaracks] Yeah.
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[chrisaldrich] bridgy will match the rel-me links on your site with the rel-me on the social silos to authenticate you with IndieAuth.
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[tamaracks] So is the Publishing setting on bridgy what would be the syndication part? And that is what could also be handled by Jetpack?
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[chrisaldrich] yes, you'd use either bridgy's publish functionality, jetpack publicize, or something like SNAP to POSSE your posts to other services.
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[tamaracks] Ok, thanks. I think that’s starting to make more sense. ?
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[chrisaldrich] sounds like you're more than halfway there already!
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gRegorLove snarfed: Bridgy idea - instead of "Get started" and icons, maybe "I want to get replies from: [icon]"
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gRegorLove So it's more explicit what they're doing, not just signing into a Bridgy account
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[tamaracks] Yeah. The sign in/log out thing kind of makes it seem like they are bridgy accounts that should converge if they are all you.
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[chrisaldrich] tamaracks Bridgy will also let you take backfeed from one (or more) twitter account and send the webmentions to both a wordpress site and a kirby site; it's not always necessarily 1-1
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[tamaracks] It makes sense. It just some of the terminology led my impressions in a different direction.
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[tamaracks] Also possible that I skim too much. ?
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[chrisaldrich] Sometimes I think it makes more sense if you've done something like used your own domain name to log in to something like the indieweb wiki first. Bridgy is another step beyond that that almost seems like "magic" in comparison
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked this tweet: ♝ Michael Bishop ♝ on Twitter: “For all intents and purposes, done twiddling with my WP theme, can now start working on a public #indieweb WordPress theme. Stay tuned!”" by Scott Kingery on 2017-04-28 http://techlifeweb.com/15954-2/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @miklb" by Scott Kingery on 2017-04-28 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-miklb/
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[chrisaldrich] tamaracks Did you get bridgy working?
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[tamaracks] I think so. Although I haven’t tested it yet.
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[tamaracks] Not sure how to make sure it works, exactly. I left syndication off for now, because I’m not yet sure I want to wholesale post everything to all my social networks. I’m on the east coast, so I think I’m pretty much tapped out for the night. ?
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[chrisaldrich] tamaracks Good luck tomorrow; let us know if you need any webmentions sent to test things out.
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dede1 slm
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dede1 adsasdasd
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dede1 asda
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dede1 d
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dede1 asdasd
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[colinwalker] Morning all.
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miklb morning
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GWG It is morning
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GWG miklb, I wanted to pick your brain if it is available.
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miklb yes. please. I need to wash the javascript stink off from $work
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GWG Work is a variable?
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miklb kinda. It changes from week to week
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GWG I have been looking at the mf2 parsing in Semantic Linkbacks, and wondering what features people might think of to add as I try to improve parsing.
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miklb ok
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GWG I want to store syndication URLs in an attempt to dedupe multiple copies of the same thing
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GWG To use an example
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GWG miklb, other than the issue of other properties being classified as mentions, is there anything you would want to improve?
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miklb I need to refresh myself with what is in Semantic Linkbacks and what's post kinds. I blur the line in my head I think
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks enhances Webmentions to classify them as likes, mentions, etc
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GWG So it handles responses to a post, whereas Post Kinds handles posts
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miklb which one does the retrieve ?
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miklb that's post kinds, right?
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GWG The retrieve button? Post Kinds
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GWG Both parse mf2 for different reasons
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GWG The code in Post Kinds could theoretically be used in Semantic Linkbacks
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miklb so my confusion is warranted ;-)
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GWG Well, if WordPress could have one parsing service, life would be easier, but it doesn't do dependencies
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miklb sure
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miklb so I can't think of anything I've encountered yet I could think to improve or a feature to add
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GWG Well, looking at the code, I see some opportunities for improvement.
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miklb I'm going to be pretty focused on the theme, but if anything pops up I'll be sure to see what I can offer
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GWG I am looking forward to seeing more of it.
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miklb me too!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Valuing the right things" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-28 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/5luaSNvn2Z4/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Valuing the right things" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-28 https://medium.com/@colinwalker/valuing-the-right-things-d5ff646539ff?source=rss------blogging-5
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GWG adactio: Long time no notice
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adactio CWG: Howdy.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 2017-03-30 at 1:21am UTC: hey because you're recognized in IRC (probably due to being signed in and /irc-people) can you make it to any of the dates here? add yourself! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
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Loqi adactio: tantek_ left you a message 1 week ago: - any photos from your Homebrew Website Club meetups this past Wednesday? Add to https://indieweb.org/events/2017-04-19-homebrew-website-club#Photos ! Thanks!
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GWG I really need to post more on my site
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GWG It would help prioritize my itches
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GWG I care about location, but I didn't post anything this week because I was so jetlagged
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GWG Maybe tantek is right and I should try a 100 day challenge
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GWG I am not self dogfooding enough
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[colinwalker] I try to post something everyday, even if it's only a micropost
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GWG I talk myself out of it too often
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GWG I have the next few hours,. maybe I will write something. My last few posts were Indieweb WordPress speculation
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[colinwalker] What's your URL?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Random mastodon instance of the day: http://www.unmung.com/mastoview?url=a.weirder.earth&view=local #indieweb Strange peeping into others' publics http://www.kevinmarks.com/mastodontheory.html" by Kevin Marks on 2017-04-28 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/random-mastodon-instance-of-the-day-mastoviewurlaweirderearthampviewlocal-indieweb-strange-peeping
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[kevinmarks] when hosted known and quill work it's great (it's also a bit weird to get the @ notification from indieweb irc via superfeedr before the page loads to show that it has posted).
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[kevinmarks] I'm still grumpy that noterlive was working for everyone except me last night, and I lost a load of notes
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Valuing the right things" on 2017-04-28 http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/ColinWalker/%7E3/5luaSNvn2Z4/
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GWG My short one is di5.us
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GWG Oh, and hello KevinMarks
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GWG Sorry for the delay in response, I was waiting to reach altitude
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GWG Odd, seems to be down
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GWG Better check the short. Full domain is working
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[colinwalker] Short worked for me
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GWG Good
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GWG I need a new theme
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GWG I wrote bearbones a long time ago
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GWG And I think I broke it
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[colinwalker] Always the way ? Just reading your WP posts now
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GWG I spend so much time talking about it, I figured I should write some down
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GWG What do you think?
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[colinwalker] I agree that you need to extend the bit about what can be built on top of comments etc. It all makes a lot of sense though.
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GWG It is not getting much interest from the WordPress community
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GWG But custom comment types are how webmentions are set up
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[colinwalker] Massive shame - something needs to happen but (as I wrote yesterday) it needs someone with a bit of clout - it's just finding and convincing that person.
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GWG I may write custom comment templates as a plugin
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[colinwalker] I'm just reworking mine to tidy it up and have comment permalinks
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GWG I built comment permalinks as well, but never​deployed
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[colinwalker] Done! It's not amazing but it works ;) A bit of 'fudgery' happening because of the type detection issues that Semantic Linkbacks has with Known but it'll do for now.
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miklb good morning
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Loqi morning!
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GWG Morning
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skippy ahoy hoy
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aaronpk ?
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GWG I think ahoy hoy doesn't get enough play
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schmarty ahoy ho-, aww, skippy beat me to it.
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GWG sighs
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miklb why the long face GWG ?
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GWG Internet is too slow.
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miklb GWG I think I've asked before, but is there a way for post-kinds to recognize micropub posts and apply corresponding kind?
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb.
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aaronpk morning!
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miklb ?
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GWG miklb, the last revision added better support for that
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miklb I'll test again
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GWG Keep me posted
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GWG mikl, so much to do, so little time
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miklb same
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GWG I want to add a query variable to Post Kinds that would retrieve and parse the URL without prompting for bookmarklets
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miklb I'd pay for that
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GWG Will work for diet coke
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GWG Or diet green tea Arizona
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miklb noted
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GWG But honestly, I really should prioritize the bookmarklet thing. I tried it in a currently abandoned plugin called Indie-Webactions
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GWG But I rolled the functionality into Post Kinds for parsing to create link previews, but not that part
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GWG I just need the logic for deciding on whether to use elements automatically
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miklb gives Loqi the logic
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Loqi eyes the logic
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GWG miklb, it's a conceptual problem. Do you want to display elements from another site on yours without seeing them? Even if you saw the site?
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miklb could always save as draft if worried, yes?
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miklb granted, not all micropub clients/methods have that option I guess
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Indieweb adoption - how does a new way spread?" by James Duncan on 2017-04-27 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/04/27/indieweb-adoption-how-does-a-new-way-spread
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GWG Conversely, I did a lot of work to try to get the information consistently decent enough to display. I don't even display all I return yet. Like featured image
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GWG I was trying to figure out the UI for it.
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GWG I have not researched WordPress media UI
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[kevinmarks] https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/85290
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] @maiyannah right, that is the insight behind webmention that makes it so much simpler than salmon.
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[kevinmarks] (see thread)
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[kevinmarks] https://plateia.org/notice/65146
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Loqi [Maiyannah Bishop] Thought: it wouldn't be too terribly hard to compare notices against the copy from the instance they were originally posted at to very integrity / prevent forging.
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aaronpk ?
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snarfed mastodon, plateia/postactive, rumblings about gnu social...make for an interesting recent resurgence in activity around ostatus
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snarfed i wonder how much of it is to ostatus particularly, vs just from twitter etc to anything else
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aaronpk i think very little has to do with ostatus
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snarfed agreed
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snarfed but still that's where many people ended up
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aaronpk most people who i've talked to have no idea what it's built on, and are also confused about how its federation even works
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snarfed sure. i guess i can rephrase as, it's still where many current *developers* who built good things ended up
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snarfed idly considers dusting off https://github.com/snarfed/ostatus-unofficial
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Loqi [snarfed] ostatus-unofficial: UNMAINTAINED: A stand-in, proxy OStatus server for sites like Facebook and Twitter that don't implement it themselves.
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miklb snarfed thanks again for the u-featured addition. Adding that automatically to featured images in WP and syndicating seems like a solid feature that everyday bloggers would use/like I think.
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snarfed welcome!
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[colinwalker] Interesting- will have to look at how I could add that.
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[chrisaldrich] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 265 karma in this channel (272 overall)
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[chrisaldrich] colinwalker: miklb wrote up what he did the other day: https://miklb.com/microformats2-wordpress-and-featured-images-classes/
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Loqi [Michael Bishop] Microformats2, WordPress and Featured Images Classes
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miklb that's a poorly worded title
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[colinwalker] Thanks chrisaldrich
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[chrisaldrich] miklb: after Permission and Frankenstein recently everything is going to seem lacking ?
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GWG Home and decent net
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aaronpk i just got the dreamhost newsletter and was skimming it and was surprised to see a whole thing about the indieweb :D
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snarfed cleverdevil++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 25 karma in this channel (33 overall)
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aaronpk http://www.dreamhost.com/newsletter/0417.html
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "DreamHost ❤️ IndieWeb" http://www.dreamhost.com/newsletter/0417.html (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/28/11/)
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gRegorLove "P.S. - If the idea of the IndieWeb only makes you want to wear flannel and drink craft beer, you can unsubscribe from this newsletter here:"
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gRegorLove Haha " When you post photos of updog online, the rights to those photos should remain with YOU. "
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Loqi rofl
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miklb ah, yeah, keyboard shortcut for my blog in the menubar. Not sure why I hadn't thought of that before.
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GWG I gave up wearing flannel
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[chrisaldrich] Welcome home GWG
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[cleverdevil] Haha.
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Loqi rofl
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[cleverdevil] I'm sitting with our VP of Corp Communications now, Brett, who writes the newsletters.
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[cleverdevil] I let him know that y'all approved ;)
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[cleverdevil] More to come. Much, much more!
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aaronpk DreamHostBrett++
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Loqi dreamhostbrett has 1 karma
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[cleverdevil] Current lunch venue, shared thanks to OwnYourSwarm: https://cleverdevil.io/2017/checked-into-bashi
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Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] Checked into Bashi
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aaronpk Nice
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aaronpk btw has OwnYourSwarm been uploading more of your photos lately? I made the delay longer
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[cleverdevil] Yes! Every time it works.
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[cleverdevil] I noticed the improvement. aaronpk++
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aaronpk Awesome
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-28.html
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[chrisaldrich] Has anyone considered or implemented a class along the lines of rel="nomention" as a means of causing their site to specifically NOT mentioning another site on the attached URL? #submention
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aaronpk why would that need a special rel value?
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aaronpk wouldn't you just not send a webmention?
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[chrisaldrich] I'm thinking of targeting a specific url (of potentially many others on a page which could).
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aaronpk I would think you'd want to just not make a link to the site in the first place
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aaronpk if someone clicks the link, their site is going to get an HTTP Referer header about your link anyway
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[chrisaldrich] Especially in something like WordPress which generally has no other on/off switch or ability to target specific URLS.
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aaronpk a safer way to "submention" someone would be to not have the <a> tag and just include the link as plain text
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[chrisaldrich] But how many people (besides us) are really reading their logs to see those....
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gRegorLove Search engine indexes too
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[chrisaldrich] rel=nofollow is a similar thing... you don't want to give them the "seo juice" but you want to make it relatively easy UI-wise for your reader to visit the page.
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gRegorLove You could also link an archive.org version I guess, or a donotlink service
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aaronpk i thought rel=nofollow was generally not recommended
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[chrisaldrich] I think it has fallen out of practice to some extent. But there's also a recent rise of using rel= noopener noreferrer for security reasons too.
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aaronpk well just keep in mind that if you do include a hyperlink on your page, anyone else can send the webmention on your behalf even if your software doesn't
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gRegorLove hat's noopener?
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gRegorLove What's
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[chrisaldrich] https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/256-targetblank---the-most-underestimated-vulnerability-ever/
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KartikPrabhu what's submention?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "wakest shared a status by cwebber@toot.cat" on 2017-04-28 https://mastodon.social/users/wakest/updates/2176700
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[chrisaldrich] KartikPrabhu: it's a slight modification of the concept of subtweet.
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[chrisaldrich] What is subtweet?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "subtweet" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk that's a good thread https://toot.cat/users/cwebber/updates/19461
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Loqi [Christopher Allan Webber] @nightpool Evan Prodromou, who wrote OStatus and the majority of StatusNet (which is what became GNU Social) is co-chair. I'm MediaGoblin co-founder. Some others are part of the IndieWeb group. @wilkie wrote OStatus. We've had, at times, people f...
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aspis1 hello
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aspis1 I'm looking for the Atlas channel?
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aaronpk the Atlas channel? do you mean about this project? https://github.com/aaronpk/Atlas
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aspis1 aaronpk
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Loqi [aaronpk] Atlas
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aaronpk sure, what's your question?
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aspis1 yes, very nice
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aspis1 well first. I would like to introduce myself
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aspis1 i'm an old developer that worked on some of the early web
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aspis1 built the first ecommerce site on www plus a lot of other neat things
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aaronpk cool! do you have a personal website?
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aspis1 I took them all down. I'm sort of retired except for a few retainers
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aspis1 point is I really appreciate the focus you guys have on independence etc. nice to have found that there are few people who are working
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aspis1 to realize the dream we had thirty years ago.
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aaronpk thanks! :)
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aspis1 any Atlas and your other projects glueing small utlilties is the way to go
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aspis1 you guys are way ahead on the social integration very cool!!
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aspis1 I set up your static maps on one of my linodes. works out of the box on apache/fastcgi/php-fpm btw
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aaronpk awesome, that's good to hear
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aspis1 I also tried out git clone of the full Atlas but ran out
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aspis1 of time trying to find an entry point. looks like
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aspis1 its built on some sort of MVC scheme using slim/savant correct?
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aaronpk ah yeah I didn't write any setup instructions for Atlas it looks like. Likely the missing piece is you need to set up the web server to serve that 'public' folder rather than the root of the repo
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aspis1 okay thanks!
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aaronpk oh and you'll need to run `composer install` to install the dependencies. if you're not familiar with composer, there are instructions here: https://getcomposer.org/
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aaronpk i should probably do a zip file release of Atlas so you can just drop it in and go, like I did with XRay
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aaronpk makes a note
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aspis1 well yea, I realized there were some missing pieces.
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Loqi it is probable
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aspis1 I was actually just wrapping up my notes on the project and wanted to document where you guys hang out for when I get a chance to look at Atlas again
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aaronpk ? we are here all the time :)
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[cleverdevil] Struggling with what to work on next.
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[cleverdevil] Definitely got some stuff in the works, professionally, with Indieweb.
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[cleverdevil] Mostly, I mean for my own site.
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[cleverdevil] Ran out of energy on the Activity/Workout/Health front. I just don't think what I want to do is reasonable to do at the moment.
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aspis1 Best thing is, like I said earlier good to find some people with reasonable approachs
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-04-28.html
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aspis1 pretty rare these days its mostly either mono, esoteric or deep in the basement.
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aspis1 @aaron I look forward to check some more of your and the other indie web projects
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aaronpk haha thanks. avoiding /monoculture is a pretty important part of the community
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Loqi hehe
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aspis1 Just looked at the indieweb.org site
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aspis1 Lots of good stuff.
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aspis1 From my perspective the web is sort of an early teenager.
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aspis1 We've replace one set of gate-keepers with a different set.
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aspis1 That is to be expected in early stages of development.
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aspis1 I envison that autonomous agents based on trust chains will takeat least into early adulthood
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aspis1 typing with one hand while eating yougurt witht eh other. Yes it breaksfest in Atlanta for me;)
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aspis1 Any ideas floating around here on trust chains?
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KartikPrabhu what is trust chain?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trust chain" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu looks like "no"
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[cleverdevil] Had another great meeting with the Nextcloud folks today.
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[cleverdevil] Exploring some great ideas on how DH + Nextcloud can push the Indieweb forward. Any ideas are, of course, welcome.
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aspis1 I'm tempted to join you guys. But time is very limited
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aspis1 I trust Joe and he trust you so I trust you - trust chains basically automate that
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aaronpk what is Vouch?
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Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention. Webmention with Vouch depends on understanding Webmention https://indieweb.org/Vouch
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aaronpk there are some similar thoughts there ^^
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aspis1 I saw that.
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