#indieweb 2017-05-05

2017-05-05 UTC
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aaronpk also i normally use the "like" bookmarklet which submits it automatically, so i wouldn't actually have a chance to check any syndication buttons
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[cleverdevil] Gotcha.
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aaronpk i have plans to make my micropub endpoint smarter about that too, cause i should be able to like an indieweb URL and then it shoudl go find the twitter copy and like it on twitter too
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I frequently "like" things or "repost" things that aren't tweets. Maybe I should adjust my behavior to instead use bookmarking.
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aaronpk but i think i need to do that at my micropub endpoint isntead of quill
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aaronpk i like/repost things that aren't tweets but are still microblog posts
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snarfed aaronpk: yup re finding and following syndicated copies, bridgy publish support that - like/reply to an original post with u-syndication to a silo, bridgy follows it and posts it to the silo - and people like and use it
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aaronpk bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 51 karma in this channel (58 overall)
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skippy if you like the original copy of something, what's the argument for liking the syndicated copy of it?
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aaronpk if the other person doesn't receive webmentions or notifications of webmentions, they mighit not know you liked their post unless you like the syndicated copy
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skippy hrm.
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sknebel (meta: finding a streaming solution that works for listeners that don't have a webcam would be great in the future)
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skippy i understand the motivation. but if they do accept webmentions on the original and they get notified of them, then it seems like notification overload to do the syndicated one, too. *shrug*
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snarfed notifications (and overload etc) are best handled on the receiver's side, not sender's. people have different prefs for how to handle notifs; they should get the choice
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sknebel skippy: do you only post likes to tell the person that wrote the article about it? syndicating it also broadcasts it to users only viewing someones posts on twitter
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skippy i dont' disagree, snarfed. just observing an issue.
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snarfed fortunately pretty much all silos have fine grained notif controls
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skippy i dont actually "like" anything, as a matter of principle. If i want others that follow me to see somethign that I find valueable / funnny / whatever, then I re-tweet that. I dont do Tumblr or Facebook, so my use case is exclusively Twitter.
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sknebel (that question is part of why I don't use likes very much – they have weird overloaded intentions to me)
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aaronpk speaking of video, i'm trying to decide how much stuff to bring to germany.
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KartikPrabhu [gregorlove]: https://aaronparecki.com/sleep
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aaronpk the main question being should i bring enough to do a proper livestream/recording including the presenter's screen like this: https://youtu.be/e9DmzkkNEIw?t=51m50s
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aaronpk or just one camera and the screen will be hard to see
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aaronpk not so great :-/ https://youtu.be/PBuJqm6m5mI?t=47m11s
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: talky does screen share now
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aaronpk well we can't record if we do that
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GWG I want to hear as a minimum
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tantek how is IWC Bellingham going?
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Loqi tantek: cweiske left you a message 8 hours, 40 minutes ago: - no, I don't want to provide a generic indieweb search engine.
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tantek well that settles that then. I sense that's a pretty big opportunity
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sknebel aaronpk: brighton also only had camera, but the exposure worked better. I thought that was ok, esp. with chat at the bottom
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sknebel but I was physically there, so didn't have to rely on it entirely
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sknebel only afterwards, so biased opinion
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aaronpk i don't have an extra computer to do the chat overlay thing anymore
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miklb GWG does bridgy publish set syndication-targets automagically?
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GWG Yes.
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miklb cool. Some reason shpub can't find them, but I'll explore more closely.
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GWG miklb: I tested it with Quill.
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miklb I have too.
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miklb not sure if you saw I posted earlier, says not returning as application/json
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GWG I just set the filter. It may be the Micropub plugin.
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miklb re: liking the original or a syndication link, does it matter? The like backfeeds as the same thing, right?
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GWG Not exactly, but I am hoping
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miklb maybe just the way I have it set up, but seems if someone "likes" from their site vs fave a tweeted syndication, they are displayed the same. At leastI think that's how I have it working.
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GWG I want to dedupe those.
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GWG If they are the same
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miklb what is dedupe
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Loqi deduplication (de-duplication AKA deduping/de-duping) is the process of comparing responses (sometimes posts) and seeing if they are exactly or essentially the same, and only keeping the earliest or most canonical version, perhaps keeping track of alternative URLs, like syndicated copies https://indieweb.org/dedupe
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miklb I guess I haven't had to deal with that scenario yet.
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-05-05.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: good IWC day 1 liked all the questions from people. you should invite all of them to join the IRC (or through Slack) do discuss their questions and concerns
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gRegorLove Thanks! We thought it went pretty well too. I think everyone enjoyed themselves.
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gRegorLove I think they were all in, one way or another, but maybe not active. Will def mention it again tomorrow as an ongoing thing.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: I may have been too blunt on some discussions but can't help it :)
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gRegorLove Nah, I think you were fine.
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KartikPrabhu i always think that when I don;t get challenged :P
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gRegorLove No you don't ;)
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KartikPrabhu well OK, let me be nice for a change then :P
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gRegorLove All the newcomcer questions about mf2 are good exercise. I take it for granted after using them so long.
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KartikPrabhu no, yes, they are always good
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gRegorLove Though I do like saying tongue in cheek "microformats were around before schema, so it has hipster cred"
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KartikPrabhu yeah, it is true, but I don't like qualifying anything as <hipster>
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gRegorLove How hipster of you :)
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KartikPrabhu yes, I get the "irony" so to speak
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Title-less Status Updates for Micro.blog" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-05-05 http://boffosocko.com/2017/05/04/title-less-status-updates-for-micro-blog/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Indieweb adoption – how does a new way spread?" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-27 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/9l7BqrZIQME/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The duality of microblogging" by Colin Walker on 2017-05-01 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/iI_dzaNxRjs/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Ownership and control: how much do we really have?" by Colin Walker on 2017-05-02 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/CFK-UREAuIY/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Valuing the right things" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-28 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/5luaSNvn2Z4/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Sending likes and replies using custom fields" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-25 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/ewuTcq3mZp0/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "In transition" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-24 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/R9SJs-AtZlk/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Who am I? Who does the web think I am?" by Colin Walker on 2017-04-22 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ColinWalker/~3/cf5vOEoT8lw/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWebCamp Bellingham Day 1" https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/indiewebcamp-bellingham-day-1/
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[colinwalker] That wasn't me that time ?
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KartikPrabhu ok so superfeedr did that yeah?
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cweiske tantek, that might be a missed opportunity, but also much less work for me. anyone could take phinde and set it up as a indieweb search engine
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tantek cweiske, yes that's a good point
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the question about why microformats uses classes came up at IWCBham. Hopefully I asnwered them but I couldn't find th reasoning on the microformats wiki
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sknebel last time the superfeedr flood was with the direct links, maybe superfeedr found a feed now ;)
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[chrisaldrich] colinwalker, Maybe you put one of your feeds into micro.blog and superfeedr picked up those POSSE copies?
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[colinwalker] There was a spate of links picked up when I reinstalled the PubSub plugin yesterday but nothing done to trigger these
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[colinwalker] Maybe it's just a delayed reaction from that ?‍♂️
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu pretty sure "Why microformats uses classes" is in the FAQ in some form. I used to speak to that in particular in the early days of microformats (mid 2000s) in nearly every talk. Simple answer: it's where web designers put semantics already, so it builds on existing habits, instead of making people learn new technology, attributes, formats etc. Simpler, more adaptive. Feel free to add to microformats FAQ.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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skippy good morning.
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[kevinmarks] why bootstrap is like table layout: https://codepen.io/morganfeeney/post/dont-build-bootstrap-style-grid-systems-with-flexbox https://24ways.org/2015/grid-flexbox-box-alignment-our-new-system-for-layout/
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[kevinmarks] it's table layout except there are always 12 columns and there are 8 ways to say colspan
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWebCamp Bellingham Day 1" on 2017-05-05 https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/indiewebcamp-bellingham-day-1/
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[joemcl] Yo Bellingham folk, on my way, see you soon
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[joemcl] gregorlove ^^^
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gRegorLove See you soon, [joemcl]
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[joemcl] Yup
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gRegorLove Good morning from IndieWebCamp Bellingham!
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[colinwalker] Hey ?
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gRegorLove Audio link incoming
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Salt http://talky.io/IWCBham
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[joemcl] Here's my tweet from #IWCBham - https://twitter.com/joemcl/status/860542629905399809
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@joemcl At @indiewebcamp #IWCBham with @gregorlove @altsalt @andrewkvalheim @evanwolf https://www.swarmapp.com/c/1DuypzbHJ90 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_FC9eJW0AE92fA.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/860542629905399809)
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[chrisaldrich] For people new to indieweb, one could consider writing a post on their site about what they've learned yesterday and begin creating a list of things they'd like to begin improving/changing on their site.
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[chrisaldrich] Creating a user page and wikifying yourself is a related and useful exercise too: http://indieweb.org/wikify#Wikify_yourself
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[chrisaldrich] What is audience?
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Loqi audience is an experimental property of a post that indicates the intended recipients (readers) of the post https://indieweb.org/audience
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[chrisaldrich] Hi Bellingham!
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[evanwolf] Hi, Chris!
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[evanwolf] good ideas.
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[chrisaldrich] IndieWebCamp is an in-person meeting a few days a year, but indieweb can be an everyday thing... planning for the rest of the year is a good exercise.
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Salt who is gRegorLove
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Loqi gRegor Morrill photo/avatar for gRegor Morrill gRegor Morrill is a software developer living in Bellingham, Washington. Pronouns: he/him/his http://gregorlove.com https://indieweb.org/User:Gregorlove.com
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[chrisaldrich] What is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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[chrisaldrich] I always find that browsing around on the wiki and looking at examples makes me itchy for things I could do to my site as well.
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gRegorLove What is OpenPGP?
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Loqi OpenPGP (Pretty Good Privacy) is a message exchange format that uses public key cryptography to enable people to exchange encrypted and/or signed data https://indieweb.org/OpenPGP
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gRegorLove What is Signal?
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Loqi Signal is an encrypted messaging app https://indieweb.org/Signal
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[chrisaldrich] What is the Robert Scoble Effect?
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Loqi Robert Scoble Effect is the potential of unexpected consequences or crashes when famous people begin using or interacting with websites, apps or especially social networks and their resulting network effects https://indieweb.org/Robert_Scoble_Effect
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[joemcl] @loqi who is moxie marlinspike?
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gRegorLove [joemcl]: No @ sign, just Loqi
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Salt or just who is
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[chrisaldrich] People will troll you on social media because there's more anonymity, but it takes more social strength to cold call someone.
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gRegorLove What is webmention
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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[joemcl] what is moxie marlinspike
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "moxie marlinspike" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] @names are useful for pinging people who are on the Slack interface; most are in IRC typically.
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gRegorLove What is tanteking
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Loqi Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indieweb.org/tanteking
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[chrisaldrich] What is WWTD?
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Loqi WWTD or What Would Tantek Do? is a clarion call that serves as a good reminder of how to get back to Indieweb basics https://indieweb.org/WWTD
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[evanwolf] who is evanwolf
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[chrisaldrich] If you like drupal but want something a bit more user-friendly like WordPress, there's a good drupal fork called Backdrop https://backdropcms.org/
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gRegorLove [evanwolf]: Once you sign into the wiki you can add yourself to /irc-people and the "who is..." will work
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Salt [chrisaldrich], it has to support civicrm is the thing
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gRegorLove What is Backdrop?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Backdrop" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove What is civicrm?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "civicrm" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] What is Getting Started on WordPress?
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Loqi By using WordPress on your own domain, you are already a part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support IndieWeb philosophies https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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gRegorLove CiviCRM is https://civicrm.org/
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Loqi ok
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[chrisaldrich] Irvine++
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Loqi irvine has 1 karma
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[chrisaldrich] DrupalCampLA is typically at UCI
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[joemcl] you plan to go for sure
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[joemcl] yes I'm going to DrupalCampLA chrisaldrich for sure
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[chrisaldrich] I'll definitely go to DrupalCampLA, WordCamp Orange County (also at UCI), and WordCamp LA. I've already started some discussions for an IndieWebCamp for LA later in the year too.
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Salt what is matrix
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Loqi Matrix is http://matrix.org https://indieweb.org/Matrix
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Salt what is riot.im
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "riot.im" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Salt Riot.im is https://riot.im/ a glossy Matrix client
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Loqi ok
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[chrisaldrich] WordPress.com, no...
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[chrisaldrich] You can set up brid.gy with it
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[chrisaldrich] The WordPress.com brid.gy set up is a bit hacky though...
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[chrisaldrich] btw... https://talky.io/IWCBham is down
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[chrisaldrich] and... it's back.
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[joemcl] Shoutout to kevinmarks - I'm here at IndiWebCamp in Bellingham because of your advocacy on https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-google and it's back to back with https://www.linuxfestnorthwest.org/2017/about
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[kevinmarks] Excellent
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[joemcl] also thanks Salt for putting me on to LinuxFest Northwest
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skippy midwest folks might be interested in Ohio LinuxFest: https://ohiolinux.org/. the CFP just opened.
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Loqi [Vance Kochenderfer] Ohio LinuxFest 2017 Welcoming all Free and Open Source Software professionals, enthusiasts, and everyone interested in learning more...
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gRegorLove stops editing the wiki so he can work on his own site
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove: You put so much work into it, I keep waiting for the wiki to have a new title: "gRegorLove's IndieWeb Wiki"
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Anticomplete of @ names on mastodon.social #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-05-05 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/anticomplete-of-names-on-mastodonsocial-indieweb
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gRegorLove Lulz
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Autocomplete of @ names on mastodon.social for aaronpk.com #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-05-05 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/autocomplete-of-names-on-mastodonsocial-for-aaronpkcom-indieweb
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[chrisaldrich] A lot of WordPress.com themes have social media link menus where Rel-me can work: https://indieweb.org/Advanced_WordPress_Set_Up#Rel-Me
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[joemcl] thanks chrisaldrich will use one of these themes at joesmcl.wordpress.com
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gRegorLove I'm fixing some broken datetime stuff on my event posts today, like multi-day events don't show properly: https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/indiewebcamp-bellingham/
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Bellingham
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[chrisaldrich] yes, check out the last bullet point about social menu... most of the other options won't work on wordpress.com.
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[chrisaldrich] You can also add a simple widget and put the rel-me's in by hand.
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[chrisaldrich] If your theme has it, try looking at https://en.support.wordpress.com/menus/social-links-menu/
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[chrisaldrich] Looks like we could add WordPress.com to http://indieweb.org/web_hosting#Custom_domain_silos
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[chrisaldrich] Take that back, it's in the section just below...
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skippy are there any ways to asset rel-me status via DNS perhaps? txt records, for example? Keybase.io can use them to assert ownership of a domain.
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aaronpk what whoa where did that come from?
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wagle is there a way to get the indieweb links page to NOT be the front page of you website? (should I?)
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aaronpk indieweb links page?
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wagle so you can login.. i think I'll REALLY indieweb-ize myself this time around
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wagle setting it all up now
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wagle am i still not making sense?
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KartikPrabhu wagle: you mean the rel-me links?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 30 minutes ago: pretty sure "Why microformats uses classes" is in the FAQ in some form. I used to speak to that in particular in the early days of microformats (mid 2000s) in nearly every talk. Simple answer: it's where web designers put semantics already, so it builds on existing habits, instead of making people learn new technology, attributes, formats etc. Simpler, more adaptive. Feel free to add to microformats FAQ.
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wagle KartikPrabhu: sounds right
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KartikPrabhu wagle: you can put rel-me links in the <head> so that they don't appear visibly on the page
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KartikPrabhu that is what I do currently
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wagle ah, but I might be stuck using wordpress at the top of my website
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wagle but the wp docs have lied before
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skippy being new to all of this myself, wagle, the thinking is that the rel-me points to the root of your domain to assert "this site is mine". pointing to a page on the site has a subtlely different connotation. maybe not a big deal for you, or for human beings in general, but maybe harder for some tools to parse
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KartikPrabhu hmm, I suppose you could put them on some other page but then you'll have to use that page to login
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wagle ok.. just wondering wht to look for to read up on
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[chrisaldrich] wagle: or you could also add <link href="http://example.com" rel="me"> to a widget or somewhere else on your page. It'll have the pointer, but won't display.
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KartikPrabhu what is rel me?
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Loqi Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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[chrisaldrich] wagle: are you using wordpress.com (hosted) or wordpress.org (self-hosted)?
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wagle self hosted
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wagle multi domains.. had quite a bt of trouble until I stopped believing/following the documentation
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[chrisaldrich] Bellingham, we can hear that finger drumming REALLY well. ?
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gRegorLove_ Better? Or do you mean keyboard typing?
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wagle now trying https://wordpress.org/plugins/syndication-links/
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Loqi [David Shanske] Download Syndication Links By David Shanske Details Reviews Installation Support Development Des...
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wagle sorry Loqi
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miklb wagle that plugin isn't for rel=me, it is for adding links to places you POSSE to
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wagle miklb: oh well
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gRegorLove Salt pointed out the nice #dadjoke in Bridgy docs https://brid.gy/about##Two+naked+tags+walk+into+a+bar
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GWG I saw WordPress discussion
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miklb isn't there rel=me links in the IndieWeb widget?
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gRegorLove GWG: [joemcl] is here setting up a wordpress.com paeg
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wagle ok, now trying https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/
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Loqi [IndieWebCamp WordPress Outreach Club] Download IndieWeb By IndieWebCamp WordPress Outreach Club Details Reviews Installation Support Development ...
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wagle why is Loqi doing that to me? how do I not trigger it?
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GWG I don't know as much about dotcom as WordPress.org, but happy to help if I can
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gRegorLove Reading the mf2 from the page, it's automatic
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gRegorLove Don't worry aabout it wagle :)
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GWG wagle, tell me if any plugins create issues.
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wagle GWG: mostly its the case that multi-site works (modulo having to create a user in each site) WITHOUT the plugins ALL the web docs say to install
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wagle but so far, the non IW plugins work network installed
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wagle I'm trying this time to not make a mess again
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GWG I never tested multisite
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wagle well, i have it going with nginx eveen, have debugged all the codepaths I could think of
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Salt we are going to break early as a class is coming in, be back around 1:15-30
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wagle ewww.. i apparently have to netinstall all plugins
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gRegorLove Bellingham breaking a bit early for lunch, back around 1:30 Pacific
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wagle oooo.. i havent had luck with these: "Untested with your version of WordPress" (IndieWeb)
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miklb wagle where are you seeing that message?
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GWG wagle, it's fine. I have the update in the development repo. I tested it
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GWG miklb, we have to push the update
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GWG I tested it
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wagle https://wagle.io/wp-admin/network/plugin-install.php?s=indieweb&tab=search&type=term
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wagle says last updated 8 months ago
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wagle might be the wrong one to install.. 8)
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GWG wagle, it is. I need to push from development to remove the flag.
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wagle should I wait?
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GWG No, the only change was confirming it worked with the new version
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wagle the one i'm looking at is at 3.0.5.. you have 3.0.5
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wagle the one i'm looking at is at 3.0.5.. you have 3.0.6
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GWG Yes, listed changes include removing older plugins and adding a new one. No functionality changes
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wagle oic
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miklb wagle++
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Loqi wagle has 1 karma in this channel (226 overall)
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wagle jumps!
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GWG As a community plugin, it requires a review to commit. Someone just got to it, so we should push soon
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miklb this is really great feedback. Helps see the procedure from a different perspective
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wagle hahah! noww install all these other plugins!
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Loqi nice
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wagle well this might sole the problem of figuring out which indieweb plugins to install this go round. 8)
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wagle solve
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miklb wagle yes, there is still a lot of discussion on how to simplify that yet provide more granular control
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GWG miklb, I just removed plugins to simplify
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wagle my worry is whether it all likes being network installed
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wagle will find out
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miklb GWG ah, I'll take a look
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wagle i lookit! a cool button to let you install everything!
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wagle someone++
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Loqi someone has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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wagle but it does say that it has the notion of network install.. should I try anyway?
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wagle but it does NOT say that it has the notion of network install.. should I try anyway?
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miklb wagle are you testing this on a live site?
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wagle well, not really.. its a droplet, but only I can pass the firewall
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wagle I can make backups first.. 8/
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miklb ok.
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wagle I think it blindly bypassing the net install code
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wagle it
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wagle it's
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wagle yeah it is
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wagle https://wagle.io/wp-admin/network/plugins.php
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wagle vs https://wagle.io/wp-admin/admin.php?page=indieweb-installer
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miklb we shouldn't be able to see that page
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wagle no, just thinking you could decode the url
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miklb ah, yes
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Loqi agreed.
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miklb are you wanting the indieweb installer to network install all of the plugins?
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wagle dunno I can see both ways, just dont want to mess it up... spent the last 2 weeks making mess after mess
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wagle Its removed the notion of individual install and now you are trying to do that, so I'm skittish
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wagle making a backup, then flinging myself over this cliff
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miklb wagle had you tried setting up the IndieWeb plugins on a single site install of WP before attempting multi site?
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wagle 1-2 years ago
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miklb cool. was just trying to gauge where in the process you were.
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wagle I had a really hackneyed setup of a multisite (that was really single site)
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wagle hrm.. it thinks it was successful
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wagle ok, its not network installed, but each site can activate them now
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miklb that would be expected behavior I think
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wagle except that it had removed that ability for some reason
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wagle .. sont know it was a GOOD reason, but hey
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wagle .. dont know it was a GOOD reason, but hey
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wagle hmm.. now I CAN network activate them.. wwill try that
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dougbeal|imac I have wordpress/indieweb up and running using SemPress, but it doesn't feel very complete. For example, OwnYourGram posts don't actually display an image. Is there a more viable theme then SemPress?
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wagle it liked that.. what all should I test?
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wagle OOOoo that.. I'm using 2010 because it doesnt squander whitespace,, wants the theme of choice now?
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wagle OOOoo that.. I'm using 2010 because it doesnt squander whitespace.. what's the theme of choice now?
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wagle got my own question answered: sempress. hmm
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wagle the default is kinda crusty: "This theme hasn’t been updated in over 2 years. It may no longer be maintained or supported and may have compatibility issues when used with more recent versions of WordPress."
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dougbeal|imac wagle: the github version has newer updates
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wagle is a indieweb bleeding edge scar like a heidelburg fencing scar?
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wagle dougbeal|imac: yeah found it.. so you are using that.. I'm not help noww
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dougbeal|imac wagle: I'm evaluating it... I'm not terrible fond of PHP, so if I'm going to have to dive into code anyway, I will find something other than Wordpress
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wagle dougbeal|imac: this would be the onlyreason I have to learn php... though I wonder about hack
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skippy what problem(s) are you trying to address?
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wagle skippy: me?
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wagle ooo.. SQUANDER that whitespace.. </curmudgeon>
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wagle my screen's got pixels, but not that many.. really like webpages that fit on a screen
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dougbeal|imac skippy: I want to control my content (instagram->my blog), host longform content (I have a micro.blog), and support odd format photos (panos and whatnot).
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wagle (wottaya know, tat css mooc heelps a lot)
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wagle (wottaya know, that css mooc helps a lot) <- decoded
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skippy thanks, dougbeal|imac. just trying to see if i can help with anything wordpress related, but dont want to jam my nose into something without knowing the details.
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dougbeal|imac skippy: Ok, I can send you some questions :) How do Indieweb Post Kinds relate to Categories?
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dougbeal|imac skippy: and does the Kind change how the post is rendered?
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skippy mighty good questions! I dont know much about the specifics of indieweb+WP. I have more experience with WP but am just dipping my toes into the indieweb waters.
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skippy what plugins are you using?
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dougbeal|imac skippy: I installed everything IndieWeb recommended
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skippy https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ ?
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Loqi [IndieWebCamp WordPress Outreach Club] Download IndieWeb By IndieWebCamp WordPress Outreach Club Details Reviews Installation Support Development ...
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skippy oh loqi.
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wagle is there a sane way to compress the vertical whitespace of the sempress theme, or should I just try to live with it?
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dougbeal|imac skippy: yep
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skippy looking at the post kinds plugin now.
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tantek !tell gRegorLove reminder, please take and post photos for IWC Bellingham https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham#Photos so they show up in the newsletter today!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek who here is at IWC Bellingham? wagle? dougbeal? skippy?
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skippy not I.
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wagle tantek: portland or (hillsboro)
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skippy dougbeal|imac: looking at the kinds source, it doesn't look like it deals with categories at all. but i havent installed it, so i cant cofnirm that.
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skippy what indieweb people are in the midwest US? The timezone "America/New_York" covers a lot of space and people. Curious who is physically close to me. I'm in Ohio.
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-05-05.html
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I think Salt
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miklb dougbeal|imac post-kinds are a custom taxonomy that can be mapped to WP native post formats
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tantek did the IWC Bham live feed end? I'm not seeing anyone on it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: hah I see you!
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KartikPrabhu can't see anyone here too
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KartikPrabhu yes just joined
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tantek I figured mute self and let the main "room" show / speak
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KartikPrabhu yeah, I joined in yesterday
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miklb dougbeal|imac so you can keep your own organizational tags/categories without new ones added in
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KartikPrabhu Salt: is IWCBham over?
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KartikPrabhu hmm they might be out to lunch
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KartikPrabhu tantek: can you see my IRC screen share?
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dougbeal|imac miklb: Is the Format radio button a WP thing? Would you expect OwnYourGram micropub posts to be Image Kind?
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miklb I would think so.
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dougbeal|imac miklb: I found the Kind radio button, it was just further down.
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miklb dougbeal|imac radio button is a native WP control, I've not actually done much with post formats, I've been customizing templates for post-kinds
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tantek KartikPrabhu: sorry yes just saw that before you signed off
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tantek oh yeah - same timezone!
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miklb dougbeal|imac but my understanding is that you can map them if your theme already supports formats
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KartikPrabhu tantek: wiat trying again
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tantek saw you briefly
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dougbeal|imac miklb: SemPress is supposed to, but it feels like I'm missing a step
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah I am testing talky to see if I can remotely demo my notes storage :)
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tantek does anyone understand the point of anticomplete vs autocomplete? I'm confused by kevinmarks's posts: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/anticomplete-of-names-on-mastodonsocial-indieweb vs http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/autocomplete-of-names-on-mastodonsocial-for-aaronpkcom-indieweb
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Anticomplete of @ names on mastodon.social #indieweb http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/f1fc99fa23ec844c82f37dfde4d117e3/thumb.png
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miklb dougbeal|imac I'm checking now to see if that's actually some code I used of GWG. One sec
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KartikPrabhu interesting FF only picks up some windows to share in talky
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miklb dougbeal|imac sorry, it was from a theme function file https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s/blob/master/inc/template-tags.php#L173
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miklb unless I missed that being added to a plugin somewhere along the line
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skippy tantek: I assumed anticomplete was highlighting a failure. the suggestions are weird for what he typed in.
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tantek lol KartikPrabhu !
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KartikPrabhu I thought kevinmarks made a typo with anticomplete
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tantek I know right? hence my q
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dougbeal|imac miklb: ah, maybe I should try mf2_s. Is switching themes non-destructive?
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miklb dougbeal|imac do you not have ability to edit your theme files?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: do you know how FF decides which windows to list to share?
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dougbeal|imac miklb: sure, but I'm just trying to find the best starting point
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miklb dougbeal|imac but to answer your question, switching themes is non-destructive
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no idea!
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KartikPrabhu oh hey restarting FF seems to find new windows, weird
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tantek watches KartikPrabhu navigate his filesystem
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tantek is disappointed it's not in 3D all Jurassic Park style
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KartikPrabhu that's my notes storage :)
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tantek makes a note to setup a 3D Jurassic Park view of his file system just to be able to nonchalantly share that window in a future talky to see if anyone notices
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wagle ok, "syndication links" is the goto plugin, but I'm not seeing the way to specify the content of the rel="me" links
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KartikPrabhu now sees how FF sharing works to demo things
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wagle sgi released the code for that jurassic park file system display
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tantek wagle !!! seriously?!? someone has to have rewritten it in JS by now
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tantek hmm, yesterday at IWCBham the afternoon sessions started at 13:44
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wagle http://fsv.sourceforge.net/ (fsn original name)
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tantek what is Microbrewpub
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Microbrewpub" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove Bellingham IWC back from lunch. Stream will be back up shortly
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 35 minutes ago: reminder, please take and post photos for IWC Bellingham https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham#Photos so they show up in the newsletter today!
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dougbeal|imac tantek: What were the create sessions like before lunch?
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tantek don't know, didn't see anything
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dougbeal|imac tantek: ah
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tantek is still catching up on logs
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KartikPrabhu probably a lot of coffee drinking and keyboard hammering
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tantek gRegorLove: IIRC you have until ~14:50 to actually post a photo to the wiki to get it picked up by Loqi for the newsletter and even then, aaronpk may have to manually do a regen
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tantek hopes the IWCBham folks take a "we all got back from lunch ok" photo :)
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tantek what is IWCBham
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IWCBham" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek IWCBham is /2017/Bellingham
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove Uploading photos now.
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gRegorLove Took a photo before we left for lunch
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tantek \o/
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KartikPrabhu \o\ \o/ /o/
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gRegorLove Will get at least the serious photos up. May have to stitch together a gif of the funny ones.
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tantek I see Salt!
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tantek lol
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tantek Katie!
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tantek looks like a good group!
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wagle anyone have an example of how to get wordpress to emit a post with hidden rel="me" links?
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tantek yikes, why would you want a *post* with rel=me links?
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wagle sorry, bad vocabulary
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wagle I want a frontage with the links on it, static page, maybe
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dougbeal|imac wagle: did you install indieweb? I think it adds a bunch of fields to the user, which sets all that (or at least thats my understanding)
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wagle yeah, indieweb is installed with itis entire cohort
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tantek hmm - then the indieweb plugin should be doing that for you
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tantek last I heard from GWG that plugin had a UI for it and set it up
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miklb there is a widget in the indieweb plugin to add rel=me liks
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miklb s/liks/links/
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wagle well, I'm not finding how to fill out the content of the links to twitter, etc, but I've been known to be dense
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miklb oh, wait, maybe it isnt
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miklb wagle go to your user profile, there are fields to fill in
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wagle ooo! lookit dat!
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wagle .. and it works! <link rel="me" href="https://twitter.com/PerryWagle" /><style type="text/css" id="custom-background-css">
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dougbeal|imac Is there a user about page? Where does the h-card live? indieebify.me is saying "Multiple representative h-cards.."
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miklb is confusing the h-card widget w/ rel=me widget
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dougbeal|imac Oh, they are different?
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wagle miklb++ thanks!
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Loqi miklb has 24 karma in this channel (27 overall)
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dougbeal|imac https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdougbeal.com
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miklb dougbeal|imac yes, I was recently discussing that with GWG. I want to reduce the confusion on that and have a more robust h-card widget
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wagle *++
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wagle bah
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wagle everyone++
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Loqi everyone has 1 karma in this channel (8 overall)
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KartikPrabhu haha
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Loqi rofl
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KartikPrabhu i wonder if someone has a IRCname "everyone" and will get automatic karma
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KartikPrabhu hmm can someone have IRC name Loqi?
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Salt roflcopter
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wagle no, Loqi is real (and op)
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skippy more recent fsv; https://github.com/mcuelenaere/fsv
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Loqi [mcuelenaere] fsv: fsv is a file system visualizer in cyberspace. It lays out files and directories in three dimensions, geometrically representing the file system hierarchy to allow visual overview and analysis.
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skippy also available in MacPorts, it looks like.
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tantek is overhearing bits of interesting discussion from IWCBham
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Salt :D
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tantek is unaware of any such cultural association - based on experience of many different orgs using MediaWiki
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tantek doesn't want to interrupt the discussion, interesting to hear where this goes
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petermolnar fsv - /me visioning alephs, black ICE, wintermutes and neuromancers...
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skippy someone needs to make a brew cask for fsv.
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tantek the roadblocks to polish and streamline is setting up your own site, not signing up on the wiki, that's just a one-off tool
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tantek "it's not my way or the highway" - anyone can use the numerous ways to chat here, and frankly, get started with the *community* which is more important than getting started with the *tools*
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gRegorLove audio stream brb
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tantek if such 10k additional people exist with some interest, invite them to indieweb.org/discuss !
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tantek barring that, no point in solving a theoretical?
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tantek gRegorLove: p.s. who is taking notes and where? ;)
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Salt >_>
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Salt <_<
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tantek bbiab - will read logs to catch up on notes / what people were saying
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GWG miklb, heading home, but FYI...read the issues on the WordPress Indieweb plugin
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gRegorLove Sorry, no notes currently
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miklb GWG sorry, you're right
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tantek what is welcoming?
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Loqi Welcoming is how we as a community welcome new members to our community https://indieweb.org/welcoming
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gRegorLove evanwolf suggested a welcoming bot might be helpful in chat, letting people know how to ask Loqi / add new pages. We're discussing the barriers to entry logging in to the wiki / the requirement to have a domain.
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aaronpk who is evanwolf?
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gRegorLove what is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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dougbeal|imac what is chat index
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chat index" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[evanwolf] What is the IndieWeb theme song?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWeb theme song" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk o.O
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skippy https://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html
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dougbeal|imac Who is dougbeal
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aaronpk take your pick! https://100.aaronparecki.com/
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KartikPrabhu lol
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KartikPrabhu I vote https://100.aaronparecki.com/#day98
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[evanwolf] What is BrewPubSubHubbub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "BrewPubSubHubbub" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[evanwolf] BrewPubSubHubbub is an open protocol for distributed Bellingham beer publish/subscribe notification on the Internet.
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Loqi ok
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wagle my link to google+ used to let me login, but not now? how do I put the rel="me" back on my google+ page?
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KartikPrabhu wagle: I think Google+ removed rel-me from the settings stuff
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wagle googled for this info, and am not getting it.. sorry
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aaronpk google keeps messing up their rel=me stuff. i think it's gone at the moment
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[evanwolf] What is brewpubsubhubbub
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Loqi BrewPubSubHubbub is an open protocol for distributed Bellingham beer publish/subscribe notification on the Internet https://indieweb.org/BrewPubSubHubbub
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wagle KartikPrabhu: OOOoo\
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wagle ok
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wagle thanks
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KartikPrabhu wagle: I find github the most reliable
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wagle now its not probing for google+ or facebook
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KartikPrabhu wagle: what's your URL?
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wagle wagle.io
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wagle OOOOOOOOO
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wagle nm
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wagle i have the universe firewalled off..
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wagle but ho is it getting the twitter and flickr ids?
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wagle how
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wagle its all trying to use http instead of https
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wagle its also trying to use http instead of https
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KartikPrabhu because your rel-me contains twitter and flickr links
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wagle https://indieauth.com
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wagle ok, but it was doing google and facebook (and failing) 15 minutes ago
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KartikPrabhu facebook isn't supported I think and G+ does not have rel-me
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dougbeal|imac how do you insert a literal | on the wiki?
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wagle KartikPrabhu: yeah
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tantek definitely worth documenting each of the friction points people are encountering with getting started setup!
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gRegorLove Bellingham photos up! https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham#Photos
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tantek whether WordPress, or a plugins, or an IndieWeb plugin etc.
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gRegorLove Well, yesterday's are. Not today's yet.
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gRegorLove We added the "E" to the sign today and updated it. Will add another photos
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wagle I'm dubious since I confused easily
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wagle confuse
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: does the since say"revenge of the Fifth" now?
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gRegorLove Of course!
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KartikPrabhu <sigh>
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gRegorLove :P
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KartikPrabhu <cough> nerds </cough>
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wagle nerddom ftw
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KartikPrabhu what is wwtd
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Loqi WWTD or What Would Tantek Do? is a clarion call that serves as a good reminder of how to get back to Indieweb basics https://indieweb.org/WWTD
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dougbeal|imac When is the next portland meetup
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Loqi what
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-05-05.html
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dougbeal|imac When is the next event
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Loqi what
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gRegorLove Photos showed up!
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wagle huh... I opened it up
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dougbeal|imac Ooh, I'm newsletter famous
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wagle i hope i havent been rooted yet
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[joemcl] https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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dougbeal|imac :wave:
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wagle neato
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KartikPrabhu so talky has no video but has audio? or did someone leave their mic on
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wagle .. or maybe "yikes!"
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dougbeal|imac KartikPrabhu: they just switched the video off, Salt was on earlier
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gRegorLove WordPress halp: Where is the info about rel-me on Wordpress.com (without plugins)? We can't seem to find it again
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KartikPrabhu yeah I heard on the audio :P
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KartikPrabhu wonders what to works on before demos
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wagle gRegorLove: i just got it to work WITH plugins.. no iea how without.. why that way?
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gRegorLove Found it on /rel-me
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KartikPrabhu what is rel-me?
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Loqi Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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KartikPrabhu wagle: https://indieweb.org/rel-me#How_to_on_WordPress
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wagle ah
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dougbeal|imac skippy: where do widgets live? I want to modify/duplicate the RSS widget so it doesn't show the title of my micro.blog entries
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[joemcl] thanks @gregorlove ! https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F591A5CKB/relmeauthtest.png?pub_secret=9863a2052f&name=relmeauthtest.png
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dougbeal|imac Is there a Wordpress widget similar to the Categories one for Post Kinds?
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gRegorLove wagle: Joe's demo today is getting IndieAuth set up on his wordpress.com site
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gRegorLove Eventually he will install Drupal and CiviCRM on his own domain though
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wagle yikes++
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Loqi yikes has 1 karma
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miklb dougbeal|imac this widget should allow you to list a the post kinds as they are a custom taxonomy https://wordpress.org/plugins/list-custom-taxonomy-widget/
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Loqi [Nick Halsey] Download List Custom Taxonomy Widget By Nick Halsey Details Reviews Installation Support Development ...
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wagle is intimidated by the shear amount of indieweb documentation
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wagle i'll get over it, i hope
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wagle ok here's a question: learning hack do any good?
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wagle ok here's a question: woukd learning hack do any good?
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KartikPrabhu what is hack?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hack" yet. Would you like to create it?
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dougbeal|imac +1 miklb
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dougbeal|imac miklb++
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Loqi miklb has 25 karma in this channel (28 overall)
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wagle https://techxplore.com/news/2014-03-facebook-hack-language-hhvm.html etc
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wagle this might be better intro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_%28programming_language%29
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Loqi Hack
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wagle that no-one know what it is is probably a sign
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KartikPrabhu wagle: what is the use-case?
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KartikPrabhu as in why "learn a new language"?
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wagle fair question.. I like types, so got intereste, but had no use case for php until now.. so you are now seeingme wakeup and dig out my old "if php" notes
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wagle i now wonder what php7 is
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dougbeal|imac The description of MF2_s looks promising
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wagle this seem telling: https://www.keycdn.com/blog/php-7-vs-hhvm/
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GWG I need to update mf2_s
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wagle ok, i guess I answered my own question: php7 for the win (hhvm is faster, but is hungry for memory)
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gRegorLove Bellingham demos are scheduled for 4PM Pacific
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[joemcl] So link is here - https://indieweb.org/rel-me -
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: are you guys setting up or something, the video/audio dropped
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gRegorLove Yeah, getting it back up
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gRegorLove Demos live now on http://talky.io/IWCBham
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gRegorLove Kartik demoing his file storage for posts
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KartikPrabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/
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gRegorLove Stores html and json version of posts
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gRegorLove ...shows the html
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gRegorLove ...with mf2
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gRegorLove ...shows a custom h-* mf2
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gRegorLove ...h-manifold-note
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gRegorLove ...his software reads that to know it's a note, not an article
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gRegorLove ...shows json
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gRegorLove ...mf2 parsed into json
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KartikPrabhu https://carlo.zottmann.org/posts/2013/04/14/google-image-resizer.html
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gRegorLove ...adds some empty properties, like "None" but since his software isn't looking for it, it doesn't cause problems.
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gRegorLove ... nice because it's not as picky as a database
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: no sound from talky
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KartikPrabhu or Salt^
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dougbeal|imac KartikPrabhu: I'm getting audio
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KartikPrabhu maybe its me then
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KartikPrabhu anyway gtg, please take notes on demos so I can read them later
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gRegorLove joemcl demoing
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gRegorLove ...joesmcl.wordpress.com
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gRegorLove (audio still good?)
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dougbeal|imac yep
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gRegorLove backfilling my demo:
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gRegorLove ...gregorlove.com/events
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gRegorLove ...no upcoming events, but link to "past events"
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gRegorLove ...the event for this IWC Bellingham wasn't handling datetimes spanning two days
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gRegorLove ...today I fixed that: https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/indiewebcamp-bellingham/
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Bellingham
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gRegorLove ...mf2 correctly gets the start and end date
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gRegorLove back to Joe's demo
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gRegorLove ...joesmcl.wordpress.com
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gRegorLove ...dusted off wordpress.com site
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gRegorLove ... got the account so he could comment on LA Metro website years ago.
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gRegorLove ... with Andrew's help found out he was getting a DNS redirect from some extension that broke https access to his wordpress.com
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gRegorLove ...after all that and lunch, gRegor went through the /rel-me page for adding rel-me links to Wordpress.com without a plugin
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[kevinmarks] Anticomplete was a typo. Though weirdly one my autocorrect made
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gRegorLove ... once we got through it it was pretty easy, added rel-me to twitter, updated URL on twitter.com
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: you mean anticorrect right ;)
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gRegorLove ...indiewebify.me didn't quite work correctly to identify his rel-me connection
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gRegorLove ...but went to indieauth.com, entered his wordpress.com site, clicked on Twitter, and I was in!
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gRegorLove ...posted a success screenshot in Slack after logging in to IndieAuth
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gRegorLove ...bout joesmcl.com this weekend
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gRegorLove *bought
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gRegorLove ...updated DNS to point it to wordpress.com
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gRegorLove ...will be switching over to Drupal and CiviCRM when he gets more time
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gRegorLove Phil Wolff is up next
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gRegorLove ... "Read My Frackin Manual"
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gRegorLove ... sharing a Google Doc with us
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gRegorLove ... (link to come)
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gRegorLove ... a manual for a person
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gRegorLove ... wrote up problem statements
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gRegorLove ... e.g. I spend too much time getting other people up to speed and maybe that can be more efficient
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[tamaracks] I am also confused by the h-card in Wordpress. The validator said I didn’t have a representative card, then I added the widget and it told me I had multiple. And it would be cool if it could add a hidden email field. I think I ended up using a plugin to add to the headers myself.
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gRegorLove ... help others answer questions about you better like: How can I avoid triggers, how can I engage better
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gRegorLove ... did some whiteboarding
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gRegorLove ...rough sketching of what he needs to build out
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gRegorLove ... five main sextions
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gRegorLove ...capture
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gRegorLove ... quick sets, pre-built collections/attributes make it very easy to dive in
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dougbeal|imac [tamaracks]: Mine isn't displaying the email, which plugin are you using?
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gRegorLove ... indicate on a scale how comfortable you are with things, e.g. how comfortable you are with hugging
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gRegorLove ... add you rown attributes / share your own sets
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gRegorLove ... help sort the list. What's most important to you? What doesn't matter until later in a relationship?
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gRegorLove ... if you only had 30 second elevator pitch how to tell people to interact with you, what would it be?
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gRegorLove ... connect to social, work, game, etc. networks, wherever you might want to share
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gRegorLove ... what are you sharing? how much explanation, with whom? when? for how long? under what conditions?
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gRegorLove ... publish: book form, pdf, epub of this info.
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[tamaracks] @dougbeal|imac https://wordpress.org/plugins/insert-headers-and-footers/
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Loqi [WPBeginner] Download Insert Headers and Footers By WPBeginner Details Reviews Support Development Description ...
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gRegorLove ... engroup: I have a list of people, their attributes and set, can I create a composite view of them? e.g. "wow, half our people are allergic to fish"
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dougbeal|imac [tamaracks]: Ah, I used the H-Card widget, not sure what supplies it
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[tamaracks] And then it’s a subsection of the Settings. I put in the header section: <link href=“mailto:YOUREMAILHERE” rel=“me” />
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gRegorLove ... listen: provide an activity stream, things to see and that you can act on.
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gRegorLove ... requests to disclose additional information
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gRegorLove ... notify when sets evolve and update your attributes / scores
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gRegorLove ... next step is story level
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gRegorLove ... this has been a grand tour
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gRegorLove ... Q: isn't it better to do these things in conversations rather than with robotic AI?
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gRegorLove (Q from Andrew)
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dougbeal|imac Rogue cat, have to go deal
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gRegorLove ... this is evanwolf in chat btw
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gRegorLove Andrew is up
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gRegorLove ... thought a lot about what he would want to put up, didn't come to decisions
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gRegorLove ... wanted it to be implemented maximally declarative
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gRegorLove ... added rel-me tags to his site
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[evanwolf] Phil's working document... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d4XY-SFctkdPGIBzPzxBicDvpW1o7b7y0zrOBLcq8fY/edit?usp=sharing
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gRegorLove ... theoretically can log in with indieauth. Hasn't tested but looked fine.
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gRegorLove ... set a hastily written PR for gravatar impl on the RSVP page
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gRegorLove ...not tested, but hopefully it works
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gRegorLove Salt up next
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gRegorLove ...altsalt.net
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gRegorLove ... main goal was to release middleman module that pushes posts to Bridgy
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gRegorLove ... didn't really get much on that. Wrote out pseudo code for it
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gRegorLove ... did a lot of reading up on middleman
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gRegorLove ... did a lot of not-sleeping
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gRegorLove ... brainstormed on showing RSVPs for conferences he's attended
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gRegorLove ... table layout showing whether he attended, organized, etc.
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gRegorLove ... planned not implemented, though