2017-05-06 UTC
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# 00:36 [philbowell] Hi, I'm very new to this indie web stuff but very intrigued by it. Anyway I'm trying to set the basics up with the various links to my web profiles. I've got them all in my site and indiewebify.me says I have but it doesn't recognise any of the links back to my site even though they are there. Have I done something wrong (likely)? snarfed joined the channel
# 00:50 aaronpk [philbowell]: sometimes it gets it wrong. Try signing in on IndieAuth.com [shaners], dougbeal|mb1, mlncn and snarfed joined the channel
# 01:57 wagle has anyone gotten there wordpress to use all https urls, mine's glommed unto http in some plaes, making for odd edge-case-bugs # 02:01 miklb wagle make sure you have https for both WP address & site address in settings/general. Otherwise, going to be up to your htaccess or nginx conf # 02:15 wagle now that I have the certs, I might have to reinstall wp.. trying some other tricks instead first # 02:15 wagle c(the certs make it so you can start out with https # 02:16 wagle whereas I got it to work first with http, and THEN tried to convert it to https.. I guess I did it the wrong way # 02:17 miklb did you see my comment about checking your htaccess or nginx conf? # 02:18 wagle the nginx http -> https convertor isnt quite right, so I'm trying to avoid http as much as possible # 02:19 wagle i thought nginx ignored htaccess.. in any case, it is set to reject requests for . files # 02:19 miklb It does, I wasn't sure which you were using # 02:20 wagle oh darn, it REALLY WANTS to hardcode the urls for the main website # 02:28 wagle 3 hits so far, none of them do it right, except to note to "get ssl to work first!" # 02:30 wagle problem is that it took about 2 happy path hours to get to where I am now.. 8( KevinMarks joined the channel
# 02:44 Loqi [VelvetBlues.com] Download
Velvet Blues Update URLs
By VelvetBlues.com
Details
Reviews
Installation
Support
Development
... # 02:54 wagle hrm.. didnt take.. it seemed to do something tho KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# 03:43 Loqi gregorlove has 90 karma in this channel (124 overall) # 03:43 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I am very surprised that file-storage does not actually make my file "feel" slower! # 03:45 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: is it, possibly, because of DB cache and my server cacheing frequent requests? # 04:05 wagle According to my records, I find that aaronpk turned me onto SequelPro five years ago. Tonight, I used it for the first time to fix my wordpress mysql database. Poobah! # 04:08 KartikPrabhu wagle: for my bit I gave up on MySQL a while ago. Now I am giving up on databases in general # 04:11 KartikPrabhu wagle: i understand. I seem to have chosen Django/python wisely (unknowigly) [tamaracks] joined the channel
# 04:11 [tamaracks] wagle, you might be making me glad I got https working on my site before installing wordpress recently. ? # 04:11 wagle apparently, I could also try mariadb, which would be more aesthetically pleasing # 04:11 [tamaracks] That’s what my host uses. # 04:12 wagle [tamaracks]: I seem to have failed still.. a place remains with the http: url.. but the other was squashed # 04:13 [tamaracks] You think it’s in the db somewhere? # 04:13 wagle I dumped the db, and string searched the dump, only found the one, but maybe I didn't try hard enough # 04:14 [tamaracks] Couldn’t tell you. I haven’t had to dig in the db, and I’m not about to start now if I don’t need to. ? gRegorLove joined the channel
# 04:24 Loqi nginx has -1 karma in this channel (2 overall) # 04:32 wagle current problem is getting nginx to do the http -> https map right # 04:32 wagle punted and am doing it th hard/brittle way # 04:34 snarfed gRegorLove: also pin13.net uses php-mf2, unmung uses mf2py # 04:34 gRegorLove Right, but pin13.net/mf2 doesn't have issues parsing the HTML directly [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# 05:12 gRegorLove Confirmed php-mf2 isn't getting those rels on my install either, so yeah, guessing it's something with the cURL request / UA snarfed and snarfed1 joined the channel
# 05:37 Andrew[m]1 Bug on my end, I think, gzipping responses unconditionally. # 05:39 wagle i have a nginx rule with a server_name list that is matching names onot on the list.. any clues? [jeremycherfas] and tantek joined the channel
# 06:26 tantek good evening #indieweb! How did the rest of IWCBham go? demos? wolftune joined the channel
# 06:43 wagle how do you tell nginx to 444 everything not coming in under a known (ie, on a list) host/site name? (#nginx has tumbleweeds) tantek and KevinMarks joined the channel
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# 10:42 [philbowell] Well that's better, but still doesn't work for last.fm even though it's there in the last.fm profile. KevinMarks, dindy, aexoxea, rito, amz3, aexoxea_ and wolftune joined the channel
# 14:15 sknebel wagle: doesn't work? or found it after asking here? # 14:15 wagle but the rule was matching things it wasnt suppposed to # 14:17 wagle i think i have it working now, though, its grosser than I thought # 14:17 sknebel I like to have one explicit default server, with "listen 80 default_server; server_name _;" # 14:17 wagle it spends time trying to make the default case fail # 14:17 sknebel that should match only things that aren't handled by other server statements # 14:18 wagle i put listen 443 in, firefox barfs. i take it out, ff is happy # 14:19 wagle not sure where I left off last night.. it was working, but I didnt test all the cases # 14:20 wagle really surprised that the default case was even looked at # 14:21 Loqi nginx has 0 karma in this channel (3 overall) # 14:23 wagle for wasting my time with inscrutable behavior # 14:25 sknebel wagle: does your default server have a certificate? # 14:26 wagle i'm trying to not have a default server, but am now using snakeoil to waste time checking against it # 14:29 wagle i have server_names foo.com, baz.org, and moof.io.. want to 301 http to https.. i list the server_names and have individual certs.. >>> I want things not in the server_name list to be 444'd <<< # 14:29 wagle I think I'm acheiving this now, but am not certain # 14:30 sknebel return 444 is HTTP handling, at which point there already has to be a sucessful SSL handshake -> that won't work # 14:31 wagle it does seem to spend time checking out the snakeoil cert I have hanging off the catchall # 14:33 sknebel not explicitly, but it's clearly documented as HTTP rewriting wolftune joined the channel
# 14:34 sknebel (the return statement, that is. and 444 is just a nonsensical error code they made up as a signal for it) mlncn joined the channel
# 14:36 wagle i didnt get farther than to conclude that listen and server_name triggered the rule # 14:38 wagle so whats the best way to fail "none of the above" things coming in, like ip address or bogus domain names? # 14:39 sknebel I personally just let it fail with a "wrong certificate" error when the cert it gets doesn't match # 14:39 wagle oh, lemp droplets are $5/mo and wordpress are $10 # 14:40 wagle I tried that, and if the browser accept the bogus cert, it seemed to not get kicked # 14:41 sknebel not get kicked = return 444; doesn't do anything? what happens instead? # 14:42 wagle sorry, I sorta got it working last night, and have me responding at two levels (1) before my final solution before sleep (2) my final solution before sleep # 14:44 sknebel ok ;) this seems to be a nginx feature request for what you want, there the suggested workaround is breaking TLS at cipher negotation stage, so they don't even get to the point where they talk about certs. also *ugly*. https://trac.nginx.org/nginx/ticket/195 # 14:45 wagle eating breakfast, havent even had my coffee yet # 14:46 sknebel ohhhh.... then enjoy your breakfast and coffee first # 14:48 wagle that last bit of code is what I converged on # 14:50 skippy if you're not absolutely committed to nginx, it might be worth looking at Caddy. I find the Caddyfile syntax to be a little easier than nginx's. just my $0.02. # 14:55 wagle my droplet has 512M ram, i think caddy min'ed out at 2G? # 14:56 wagle but learning nginx seems useful even if I leave it # 14:56 wagle .. so this is my ngnix learning experience snarfed joined the channel
# 15:07 skippy Caddy needs very little RAM. it'll work on a 512MB droplet # 15:08 skippy nginx is fine, too. as is Apache. whatever gets done what you want to get done is the right tool for the job. :) # 15:09 aaronpk that's an interesting nginx bug. I might try the null cipher thing on my server # 15:09 wagle heh.. I have caddy on my list of things to try # 15:09 aaronpk i've had a few people tell me "your server is configured wrong because i get an ssl warning on this site" but I never linked to https for that domain # 15:09 skippy they might be using something like "SSL Everywhere". # 15:10 sknebel I was about to ask why people find this important, but I guess that's a use case # 15:10 aaronpk it's happened to me enough that it's worth finding a solution # 15:10 sknebel (for my server everything on it has an https version, and I don't see a reason right now why additional things wouldn't have one, so I don't care what happens to other random "wrong" requests) # 15:11 aaronpk yeah since letsencrypt, i have https on almost everything now cause it's so easy # 15:12 wagle my worry is that it tries the snakeoil cert for every connection, regardless of the specificity of the other rules (that actually have fixed server_name's) # 15:13 aaronpk the default 443 will only be used if no other hosts match [eddie] joined the channel
# 15:14 wagle you learn nothing sitting at the kids table # 15:16 wagle i put in the default 443 and everything went blooey.. #indieweb-dev # 15:18 aaronpk most people in #indieweb who would know answers to nginx questions are also in #indieweb-dev :-) # 15:27 wagle I gues I'm annoyed because this was the only channel With Actual Answers, unlike #nginx, #wordpress, etc.. being shunted off to a small room makes it less likely to get an answer AND it doesn't enlighten others to possible problem classes in their future.. sorry, I think the latter is important enough to mention # 15:29 aaronpk there's nothing "shunting" about moving technical discussion to #indieweb-dev. it's also bridged with Slack (those people don't show up as present in IRC unless they are talking), and it's also publicly logged at https://chat.indieweb.org/dev # 15:29 aaronpk we try to keep deep technical discussions out of #indieweb to make it feel more welcoming to newcomers so that they aren't bogged down with implementation details davidmead joined the channel
# 15:31 wagle and how do you make them into experts by hiding all the technical info from them (there is a veritable haystack of irc channels) # 15:31 wagle I'll shutup when I start repeating myself, which might be now # 15:41 sknebel aaronpk: a pointer to the other channels (or the wiki listing them) in the topic might be useful # 15:42 aaronpk yes good idea. maybe we can replace the link to the logs with a link to the /discuss page which has that info and has links to logs # 15:42 sknebel wagle: part of the reasoning (as I understood it at the time, when I also wondered about why this came up) is that "make them into experts" is not a goal (or even, if it is required to become an expert that's a failure) # 15:43 wagle i think i'm reacting to #haskell splitting, the main channel going to seed, and the side channel petering out # 15:43 aaronpk right, you shouldn't *have* to know about nginx in order to have a website # 15:43 sknebel which points to the issue of /generations and one the hand being a community that highly values doing things yourself and on the other hand wanting to be open to everybody # 15:44 wagle I try to listen to things to find out what to listen to # 15:56 skippy there's a constant struggle to keep channels "on topic" while also being generally useful. Way back in the day, the #wordpress channel was chock full of really smart people, and it was my go-to place for all sorts of technical questions, well outside of WordPress. # 15:56 skippy now with StackOverflow and the like, there are better avenues for general purpose info. # 15:57 skippy wagle: when you find your answers, do please post about it! And maybe update the relevant wikis with fresher information. # 15:59 skippy i've always found the nginx+wordpress docs confusing and largely incorrect or out of date. davidmead, edsu, rito and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
# 16:12 [jeremycherfas] Coming late to this discussion, as a lurker with lots to learn, and my question would be: under what circumstances would I even care what server I am using? I have a vague feeling that htaccess is different, but no more than that. # 16:18 skippy different http servers offer different features, and different ways to do the same things. some are easier, some are more complex. # 16:19 skippy Apache can do basically anything you want, but may be hard to set up, and may use more memory with lots of modules enabled. nginx only just added module support, so it generally consumes less memory. # 16:19 skippy Caddy handles all the Lets Encrypt SSL stuff automatically, which is a huge timesaver for people not familiar with the complexities of SSL. # 16:20 skippy [jeremycherfas]: in general, the average person shouldn't care. if you're into the technical details, you can find the solution that scratches all your specific itches. Otherwise, use something well supported and easy to get running for your use case. snarfed1 and rito joined the channel
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# 16:35 [jeremycherfas] Apache works for me, so far. And DreamHost handles LetsEncrypt. So I don't have to worry. Some of that talk was a bit abstruse, but it is easy enough to scroll past. wolftune, [eddie], [shaners], [kevinmarks], Gold and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# 19:07 wagle umm.. did indieweb plugins delete (auto or otherwise) all my random passwords? (and howcome the indieweb login just sits there?) # 19:08 wagle .. from my firefox browser's cache of passwords # 19:15 wagle maybe firefox helpfully clears the stored password if the "site"'s ssl is misconfigured? # 19:16 miklb the indieweb plugins certainly should not be doing anything with passwords # 19:21 wagle question of the hour: how do search engines find domain names? # 19:24 wagle haha. after a decade of hiding from the zombie armies, I want to now be sen by the search engines # 19:24 wagle haha. after a decade of hiding from the zombie armies, I want to now be seen by the search engines # 19:28 miklb you don't find the zombie armies, zombie armies find you [shaners], wolftune, dougbeal|mb1, KevinMarks and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# 19:55 wagle oh.. please note that this irc channel was the key resource in my getting my wordpress/nginx to work at all [eddie] joined the channel
# 19:56 Loqi miklb has 26 karma in this channel (29 overall) [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
# 19:59 sknebel at least google and bing still have submission forms, search keyword should be "webmaster tools". DDG afaik doesn't take direct submissions, yahoo is based on bing, not sure about yandex, can't think of more general search engines right now wolftune joined the channel
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# 20:17 dougbeal|mb1 Can you authenicate via indieauth for two different sites using the same github account? # 20:18 aaronpk github only provides one website field to link back, so no KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# 20:19 dougbeal|mb1 and there is not transitive authentication? Do any of the providers allow multple links? # 20:21 dougbeal|mb1 So if I want to use OwnYourGram on dougbeal.com, and quill to post to dougbeal.micro.blog, what would be my best bet? # 20:21 dougbeal|mb1 PGP challenege on dougbeal.com, and github on micro.blog? # 20:21 aaronpk yeah i guess you'd have to use two different authentication mechanisms since the two sites aren't related as far as these tools are concerned # 20:22 aaronpk if you don't plan on logging in to ownyourgram often, you could switch your github profile to link to dougbeal.com just while you log in # 20:23 dougbeal|mb1 How do you use the email methods? # 20:24 aaronpk if you put a <a href="mailto:...." rel="me"></a> link on your site it will send you a code # 20:28 dougbeal|mb1 Where is the best place to ask indieweb+wordpress questions? # 20:29 dougbeal|mb1 Maybe micro.blog should be an authentication provider? # 20:30 aaronpk yes it definitely should! I think manton just wanted to get it out the door faster so he is using indieauth.com in the mean time snarfed joined the channel
# 20:47 dougbeal|mb1 What happens if I have multiple twitter rel="me"'s? wolftune joined the channel
# 20:53 KartikPrabhu dougbeal|mb1: indieauth possibly, finds both and you could use either one Lana and davidmead joined the channel
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# 21:53 Loqi [Marty McGuire] This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • April 29th - May 5th, 2017 # 21:54 dougbeal|mb1 Yep, indieauth picked up both # 21:58 wagle how crippled will i be for indieweb microformat stuff/etc if I use the 2010 theme? (my root wp uses sempress, but the others 2010) # 21:59 wagle (I like 2010, because withno picture, it all fits on one screen) # 22:03 wagle my css-fu is as yet insufficient to hack effectively on sempress (and then I'm forking it, making for it being hard to follow the upgrades) # 22:05 wagle you can do that? (oh yeah, I now remembering my notes (from a year or two ago) mentioning that I should do that # 22:12 dougbeal|mb1 Is there any good architecture guide to wordpress? Need a mental map. # 22:14 wagle beware of outdate info.. LOTS of it out there # 22:14 wagle beware of outdated info.. LOTS of it out there # 22:15 wagle I had to crash and burn wp installations about 5 times before I think I now hae it right.. its easier than google would have you think # 22:16 dougbeal|mb1 Have you used the github plugin? It looked like it might be handy for theme development # 22:17 dougbeal|mb1 wagle: are you going to create a SemPress child theme and try to mash in 2010? wolftune joined the channel
# 22:19 wagle dougbeal|imac: mostly trim the vertical whitespace down # 22:19 snarfed hey aaronpk, any chance you could count the total number of messages chat.indieweb.org has stored? not urgen.t # 22:33 aaronpk oh wait that doesn't include #bridgy or #widthknown # 22:33 snarfed ...and yeah i may refrain from crawling chat.indieweb.org then since it has a page per msg :P # 22:39 snarfed hey voxpelli any more thoughts on sharing webmention.herokuapp.com's domains? # 22:40 Loqi aaronpk has 498 karma in this channel (1309 overall) # 22:40 snarfed might be worth updating that to say when #indiewebcamp => #indieweb happened [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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gRegorLove IWC Bellingham camp closed!
[philbowell] Hi, I'm very new to this indie web stuff but very intrigued by it. Anyway I'm trying to set the basics up with the various links to my web profiles. I've got them all in my site and indiewebify.me says I have but it doesn't recognise any of the links back to my site even though they are there. Have I done something wrong (likely)?
KartikPrabhu gRegorLove++ for notes on IWBBham demos
Loqi [superfeedr] "Random mastodon instance of the day: http://www.unmung.com/mastoview?url=a.weirder.earth&view=local #indieweb Strange peeping into others' publics http://www.kevinmarks.com/mastodontheory.html" by Kevin Marks on 2017-04-28 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/random-mastodon-instance-of-the-day-mastoviewurlaweirderearthampviewlocal-indieweb-strange-peeping
petermolnar nginx downvote, why?
aaronpk there's nothing "shunting" about moving technical discussion to #indieweb-dev. it's also bridged with Slack (those people don't show up as present in IRC unless they are talking), and it's also publicly logged at https://chat.indieweb.org/dev
[jeremycherfas] Coming late to this discussion, as a lurker with lots to learn, and my question would be: under what circumstances would I even care what server I am using? I have a vague feeling that htaccess is different, but no more than that.
schmarty Not sure why loqi hasn't picked it up yet, but the newsletter audio edition is up: https://martymcgui.re/2017/05/06/170124/
[kevinmarks] hm, could huffduffer be used for indieauth?