#indieweb 2017-05-17

2017-05-17 UTC
KevinMarks and tanlaan joined the channel
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tanlaan Hello everyone, just found out about Indie Web today. I find it pretty interesting and can't wait to check more into it
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GWG tanlaan: Welcome aboard
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tanlaan Thanks GWG. Found it through the GNU social link to a ycombinator post
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asteres do you have a link to the gnu social post?
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gRegorLove Welcome, tanlaan! Do you have a personal website?
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tanlaan Yes, I was going to go the route of Jekyll but haven't really done anything with it at all yet. Have to start somewhere right? haha
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Loqi hehe
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GWG tanlaan: What is the URL if you don't mind sharing?
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tanlaan www.chrisbolas.com
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tanlaan literally just set up Jekyll and stopped a few weeks back. but I'd like to start using it as a portfolio website for the start of my web design efforts
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miklb tanlaan I put together an indieweb jekyll theme if you want to get some ideas/use parts. https://github.com/miklb/jekyll-indieweb
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Loqi [miklb] jekyll-indieweb: A Jekyll quick start to getting up and going with the IndieWeb
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tanlaan miklb I'll definitely check it out, thanks
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miklb I switched from Jekyll earlier this year, but feel free to ping me or open an issue if you have any questions.
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tanlaan Did you roll your own or go with something like WordPress?
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GWG tanlaan: Speaking from experience, getting WordPress Indieweb friendly is still not an easy job.
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miklb tanlaan I switched to WordPress for the time being.
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GWG The WordPress community needs active participants, to be honest.
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miklb that was one of the reasons I switched to be honest.
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miklb well, that and my mounting frustration with build times that I could never track down.
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miklb s/build times/long build times/
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GWG miklb: Did I thank you for joining us?
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miklb yes!
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miklb it was probably inevitable that I switch back to WP considering my long term love/hate relationship with it :-)
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GWG You hate to love it, or you love to hate it?
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miklb neither. Just I fell in love with it, but felt it lost its way, moving further away from what I fell in love with.
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GWG I can agree with that. It seems it has been taken over by the business interests
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miklb So in a little way, helping move towards being a better indieweb tool, doing my little part to move it back to where I fell in love with it at.
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tanlaan miklb and GWG would you mind sharing your personal sites? I'm going. through some of the website and find it cool to see what sort of things other people are doing
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GWG Mine is in need of a style update, I think.
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miklb tanlaan sure. https://miklb.com
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GWG https://di5.us is the short version
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tanlaan Both are looking awesome, thanks for sharing :)
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GWG Mine is about 1.5 years old. I need to refresh for all the other changes I made.
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@mrkrndvs Tantek Çelik - The once and future #IndieWeb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNr0JNwsLy8&feature=youtu.be via @johnjohnston (twitter.com/_/status/864675032571691008)
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dougbeal|mb1 WP question, is the micropub plugin responsible for the formatting of OwnYourGram posts? I tried out DsgnWrks Instagram Importer but it doesn't have any comment/likes.
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GWG dougbeal|mb1: Sort of.
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dougbeal|mb1 GWG: is it split between OwnYourGram and micropub plugin?
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GWG dougbeal|mb1: OwnYourGram sends the data, the micropub plugin attempts to convert it to WordPress data, and Post Kinds(if you use it), attempts to alternatively display that data.
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@veganstraightedge @rubygems The #microformats gem is now just called “microformats”, no more “microformats2”. Thanks @chrisjpowers! https://github.com/indieweb/microformats-ruby (twitter.com/_/status/864687523506696192)
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tantek is watching the IWC Düsseldorf "#checkins" session on youtube!
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tantek it's like an evening with aaronpk, adactio, jkphl, and a few others! Oh hey there's julieannenoying!
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tantek so much better than Netflix
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tantek ~4:20 lol adactio gets up to the flipchart, now it's getting serious
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dougbeal|mb1 Hurm, looks like if OwnYourGram does a multipart image upload, Kinds won't treat it as a photo
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tantek dougbeal, is "Kinds" a WordPress plugin?
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dougbeal|mb1 yes, Post Kinds
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is Post Kinds
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Loqi Post or posts may refer to individual pieces of content published on an indieweb site such as notes, articles, & responses, or the act of creating the aforementioned content (present tense), or Posts about the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/post_kinds
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tantek what is Post Kinds plugin?
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Loqi The Post Kinds Plugin is a WordPress plugin that adds support for responding and interacting with other sites to WordPress https://indieweb.org/Post_Kinds_Plugin
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tantek a-ha
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miklb dougbeal|mb1 what does it come in as, just a note? And a single photo comes in as a photo?
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dougbeal|mb1 miklb: it comes in as a note, it has a syndication link back to the instagram post. the photo uploads, but there doesn't seem to be any reference to it in the note
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miklb and a single photo from Instagram comes in as photo kind and the image is dislpayed?
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dougbeal|mb1 miklb: mostly speculation, in OwnYourGram there are two code paths (upload vs json) for the image, and Post Kinds sets photo based on properties photo existing
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miklb I hadn't tested ownyourgram yet w/ my WP site, so I have a post pending. I'll better be able to look at it then (It's been on my todo list for a while). Was just trying to get a feel for what you are experiencing so I could compare/contrast
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miklb ah, OK.
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dougbeal|mb1 does WP_DEBUG_LOG log all the micropub stuff?
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snarfed dougbeal|mb1 miklb GWG re ownyourgram + wp micropub, it's a known issue, the micropub plugin code at head renders them ok. discussion in https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/issues/56
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Loqi [tamaracks] #56 Publishing from OwnYourSwarm has been unsuccessful
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snarfed i'll cut a release tonight. and i'll happily revert that if/when post kinds supports ownyourgram's checkin mf2 property
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dougbeal|mb1 snarfed: I don't think my auth headers are being stripped, since the posts are created ok. They are just created as notes, and the uploaded image doesn't get displayed.
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snarfed sorry yes, that issue conflated a few things. the rendering part is discussed further down.
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miklb here's what's going on dougbeal|mb1 the image isn't inserted into the post, it is stored in the postmeta table as mf2_photo. Your kind template then can output the image how/where you want to.
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miklb If you use the instagram URLs it stores the full path to the image in the IG cdn. If you use multipart Upload, it stores the uploaded file path on your WP site
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snarfed yes...but post kinds is arguably the right candidate to do that rendering. until then, wp-micropub will now do it itself
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snarfed hey dougbeal|mb1 are you comfortable installing and trying the new micropub plugin code from github? i'd love the extra beta testing before releasing. https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub
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Loqi [snarfed] wordpress-micropub: A Micropub server plugin for WordPress
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dougbeal|mb1 snarfed: sure
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snarfed thanks!
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miklb I'm confused. That thread is about ownyourswarm, not ownyourgram?
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snarfed oh crap actually yes,miklb is right. apologies! wasn't reading clearly enough. not enough letters different between the two. :P
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snarfed sorry dougbeal|mb1, never mind!
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snarfed dougbeal|mb1: if you disable post kinds, the micropub plugin will automatically render the photo from ownyourgram, as well as location if present, etc itself. it only skips that when post kinds is installed.
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snarfed (since post kinds's job is to manage and render mf2)
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miklb and if you want to use post-kinds, you'd need to create kind_views/kind-photo.php (can copy from the plugin as a example) and get the postmeta mf2_photo to render the image(s). I will work on a template also.
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miklb create that file in your theme.
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dougbeal|mb1 snarfed: does the wp Format need to be set to Image?
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dougbeal|mb1 snarfed: or do i need to repost via Ownyourgram?
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dougbeal|mb1 miklb: that would be awesome. Is the existence of the file enough? Or does it have to be loaded/configured somewhere?
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miklb no, the file would need to be marked up with the proper mf2 and then pull in the image via the postmeta value. I'm falling out, but want this myself so will whip up a template. I'll also open a pull request on the post-kinds plugin to add photos to the plugin kind template as well.
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miklb whip up a template later this morning I meant to say
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miklb I suspect the best solution would be to make the image an attachment if it's done through the multipart upload, but will need to think on that.
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miklb I think I have a plugin I wrote for someone laying around that I can pull that function out of.
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miklb yep. I'll discuss with GWG to see what his thoughts are on that, but in meantime will get that template example asap.
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miklb what is a photo
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Loqi A photo is a post whose primary content is a photograph or other image, with an optional caption. With multiple photographs it becomes a multi-photo post https://indieweb.org/photo
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miklb hmm, nothing about specific mf2
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@hex_pm webmentions (0.3.2): A Webmentions (https://indieweb.org/Webmention) module for Elixir https://hex.pm/packages/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/864744245998964736)
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pfefferle !tell GWG aaronpk is using h-cite inside an in-reply-to https://aaronparecki.com/replies
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pfefferle !tell GWG aaronpk is using h-cite inside an in-reply-to https://aaronparecki.com/replies
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pfefferle !tell GWG tantek is also using h-cite inside in-reply-to http://tantek.com/2017/132/t2/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] @sil pinged ~22h after support request, before @t unlocked. By the time he checked, support had unlocked it. Finding it unlocked the next morning my time, I presumed it was due to that and only saw the message this morning that he had not had to esc...
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@hex_pm webmentions (0.3.3): A Webmentions (https://indieweb.org/Webmention) module for Elixir https://hex.pm/packages/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/864751127895490560)
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@jkphl The #IndieWebTrain ready for heading towards Nuremberg. @indiewebcamp, @nueww — here we come! \o/ https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/864754207198457856/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/864754207198457856)
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@webgefrickel On my way back from an amazing @btconf and @indiewebcamp. A big shoutout to @marcthiele and his team for making… https://webgefrickel.de/notes/20170517102329 (twitter.com/_/status/864758263086297089)
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webrocker good morning! just noticed that the wiki seems to include the same stylesheet file 3 times in the page head?
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Loqi webrocker: sl007 left you a message on 2016-10-20 at 11:41am UTC: Do you attend IndieWebCamp Berlin ?
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webrocker (lines 18-20) ```<link rel="stylesheet" href="/wiki/load.php?debug=false&amp;lang=en&amp;modules=site&amp;only=styles&amp;skin=vector&amp;*" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/wiki/load.php?debug=false&amp;lang=en&amp;modules=site&amp;only=styles&amp;skin=vector&amp;*" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/wiki/load.php?debug=false&amp;lang=en&amp;modules=site&amp;only=styles&amp;skin=vector&amp;*" />```
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aaronpk that is quite strange
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webrocker yes :-) and the requested files are empty, safe a comment.
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aaronpk that looks like the mediawiki user style link, so i'm not surprised it's empty. I'm not sure why it's included three times though.
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webrocker maybe there are three users online? (scnr) :-))
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j4y_funabashi morning all
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sknebel webrocker: lol
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@webrocker @jkphl @indiewebcamp @nueww @ambrwlsn90 @Annika81 @justb3a @MaybeSpam @foobartel @aaronpk @iwontsignuphere @Sebsel… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864770002213363714 (twitter.com/_/status/864770002213363714)
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@jkphl @webrocker @indiewebcamp @nueww @ambrwlsn90 @Annika81 @justb3a @MaybeSpam @foobartel @aaronpk @iwontsignuphere… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864771274815492096 (twitter.com/_/status/864771274815492096)
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aaronpk lol i gotta fix loqi's support of extended tweets
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cweiske so the indieauth-mediawiki plugin isn't an indieauth plugin but an indieauth.com plugin :/
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aaronpk it's a mediawiki authentication plugin that happens to delegate the actual login work to indieauth.com
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cweiske as I wrote
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aaronpk yes, i was just being more specific :)
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@Jessman5 @jkphl @indiewebcamp @nueww @ambrwlsn90 @Annika81 @justb3a @MaybeSpam @foobartel @aaronpk @iwontsignuphere @Sebsel… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864773390460125185 (twitter.com/_/status/864773390460125185)
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aaronpk i especially don't want to write any code for that plugin right now until it's upgraded for new mediawiki
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aaronpk probably need to rename that plugin too
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cweiske rename all the things!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4oPupwhy.jpg
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@calum_ryan Quiet reading/writing time onboard the #indieweb train to Nuremburg + #nueww! (twitter.com/_/status/864780938152116224)
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webrocker oh wow, twitters (new) reply handling really is a mess if not viewed from within their client… :-/
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aaronpk haha yeah
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Loqi haha
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sknebel Loqi could just show ? instead?
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk hold on to your hats! i am breaking wiki logins for a minute while i reconfigure things
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aaronpk and done
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aaronpk the mediawiki plugin is now called "MediaWiki-WebSignIn" and it doesn't mention indieauth.com anywhere, since really it's a web sign-in plugin not an indieauth plugin
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cweiske it's still tied to indieaut.com
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aaronpk yes, the plugin uses indieauth.com to handle the actual authentication
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aaronpk rather than implementing relmeauth itself
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cweiske so you took the name away from a potential websignin plugin that implements it really itself
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aaronpk i suppose so
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aaronpk i need to decide on a name for indieauth.com/developers so i can stop naming things generically
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GWG Morning
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Loqi GWG: pfefferle left you a message 3 hours, 4 minutes ago: aaronpk is using h-cite inside an in-reply-to https://aaronparecki.com/replies
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Loqi GWG: pfefferle left you a message 3 hours, 3 minutes ago: tantek is also using h-cite inside in-reply-to http://tantek.com/2017/132/t2/
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Loqi morning!
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sknebel morning!
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jeremycherfas !tell pierro Any plans to update the Known installs on indiehosts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske oh. known 0.9.9 is out
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@derhess Yeah, the sun is back in #Berlin. Let's enjoy the great weather with a our evening #indieweb meetup today https://sebastiangreger.net/2017/05/homebrew-website-club-berlin-2017-05-17/ (twitter.com/_/status/864796951509860352)
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@webrocker @adactio let's make a Soul Asylum tribute theme song… "indieweb train, never going back…" :-) (twitter.com/_/status/864797892271386626)
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GWG !tell pfefferle I have seen theirs, but this new URL seems to parse it differently.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@aaronpk Getting a head start on IndieWebCamp Nürnberg on the train with @sebsel, editing wiki pages about IndieAuth and https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/864799215775395840)
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cweiske jeremycherfas, why do you rename yourself?
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jeremycherfas Possibly because I joined slack a minute ago to ask a question in a different, non-IRC channel.
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jeremycherfas But in truth, I don’t know.
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miklb good morning GWG
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miklb dougbeal|mb1 the gist of what you need to do for a kind template to display photos. https://gist.github.com/miklb/02760b1b85f0b28000978fd82303a79e
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miklb Let me know if you have any questions. I'll work on a formal pull request for the plugin later today.
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miklb dougbeal|mb1 I haven't tested with multiple photos yet, ymmv
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miklb I honestly don't even know if you can do multiple photos in Instagram, but the photo urls are stored as an array, so it's supported in the code
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tantek you can do multiphoto posts in IG yes
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tantek what is a multiphoto
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Loqi A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indieweb.org/multiphoto
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tantek miklb: https://indieweb.org/multiphoto#Instagram
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j4y_funabashi Huzzah! Just launched my first pass at displaying webmentions
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j4y_funabashi https://j4y.co/webmentions
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j4y_funabashi Need to back fill it but any new mentions will appear on this page now :D
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j4y_funabashi I decided to start with displaying the 'notification text' then when I'm happy move on to displaying them on posts as likes/comments
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tantek j4y_funabashi++ awesome and great work!!! nice photo of Jeena :D
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Loqi j4y_funabashi has 6 karma in this channel (7 overall)
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j4y_funabashi either way, feels
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tantek \o/
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j4y_funabashi good to have finished the first step on the long road to swat0
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j4y_funabashi tantek: hehe thanks, Jeena's site threw in a nice edge case for my author detection - he has 2 types on his h-entries and I was only checking the 1st one
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calumryan HWC Nuremburg starting
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Loqi calumryan: tantek left you a message 1 week, 6 days ago: any photos from the Brighton or London HWC 2017-05-03? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-03-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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Loqi calumryan: tantek left you a message 4 days, 17 hours ago: what do you think of the merged HWC Where/venue and RSVPs e.g. here: https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club#Where ?
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sebsel We're going straight into the group photo
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tantek NICE
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tantek when you're done with the photo, let us know what you think of the format of the https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club page, specifically the combined where/RSVP format of this particular HWC page
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tantek (e.g. compare to https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-03-homebrew-website-club )
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miklb tantek thanks
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calumryan tantek: combining them does work better, would possibly go further in making the RSVP text linked to correseponding Wiki so it’s slightly clearer how this is done for new people
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[colinwalker] tantek Listened to the once and future indieweb and the one point you made that really hit me was the difference between networks and blogging where the networks have an integrated reading and posting interface. That was like a sledgehammer to the head!
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@sdepolo @libertymadison Will I see you at #indieweb #sanFrancisco tonight? (twitter.com/_/status/864885494064140288)
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[cleverdevil] badly wants a fully integrated IndieWeb experience.
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tantek calumryan re: "making the RSVP text linked to correseponding Wiki" - go for it! edit https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club as you think would work best for that, just so we capture your suggestion on a live example
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sebsel tantek I like this new style too! Much clearer.
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tantek [colinwalker]: YES! I seriously think that one UX difference marks a sharp difference between the blogging+readers era and the social media era
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[colinwalker] Such an obvious point but isn't seen until someone says it.
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@libertymadison I won't make #indieweb tonight at @mozilla I am hosting #OaklandVegWeek #Tech night and also premiering my documen… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864886842369359872 (twitter.com/_/status/864886842369359872)
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miklb [cleverdevil] ditto
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[cleverdevil] colinwalker I've been writing about this too - https://cleverdevil.io/2017/user-experience-and-the-indieweb
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Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] User Experience and the IndieWeb
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[cleverdevil] I still feel that the best opportunity for building such an experience is on top of a browser.
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@libertymadison I won't make #indieweb tonight at @mozilla I am hosting #OaklandVegWeek #Tech night + also premiering my documentar… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864887246469517312 (twitter.com/_/status/864887246469517312)
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miklb [cleverdevil] something like electron or …
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[colinwalker] cleverdevil Will have a read later - got a post brewing myself
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[cleverdevil] ?
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[cleverdevil] miklb nope, I literally mean a browser... a replacement for Chrome/Safari/Firefox/Edge.
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[cleverdevil] That said, there is definitely a way to replicate the network experience (converged consumption, creation, and interaction) in a web app.
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[cleverdevil] Been speaking at length with the Nextcloud folks about this.
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aaronpk the nice thing about browsers is you can start with making browser extensions to get the functionality
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aaronpk even having just my "favorite" and "reply" bookmarklets have been amazing
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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[cleverdevil] Its the right place to start.
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schmarty i've also been making a lot of headway with bookmarklets on my laptop, URL Forwarder on my phone.
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[cleverdevil] That's the beauty of the Indieweb approach – the suite of protocols/formats are tight and focused on providing very specific funtionality.
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[cleverdevil] You can then build out a variety of experiences on top of them.
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myfreeweb i've added micropublish like/repost/reply/etc. to firefox's share menu https://myfreeweb.github.io/foxshare/ feels better than bookmarklets or extensions
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miklb is looking forward to eddie's native share extensions
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[cleverdevil] Keith Grant built out a nice Chrome extension, too.
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[cleverdevil] Omnibear, I believe?
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[cleverdevil] uses Safari, though, and rarely gets the extension love.
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[cleverdevil] +1 on the share extensions!
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[cleverdevil] For now, my approach is mainly a combination of Nextcloud News for reading, my Nextcloud News plugin that provides Indieweb interactions using Quill, and Known for my site.
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[cleverdevil] On mobile, I have to slum it a bit.
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[cleverdevil] And it still doesn't feel quite right...
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myfreeweb it's sad that Safari doesn't want to adopt the WebExtensions spec… pretty much everyone else kinda uses it (with minor differences)
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[cleverdevil] Yeah ?
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myfreeweb i made an addon for chrome/opera and firefox https://github.com/myfreeweb/transmitter same codebase for all of them, potentially ms edge too https://github.com/mozilla/webextension-polyfill/issues/3
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Loqi [myfreeweb] transmitter: A WebExtension for the Transmission BitTorrent client
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tantek myfreeweb++ awesome! re: FoxShare
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Loqi myfreeweb has 13 karma in this channel (18 overall)
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tantek what is Firefox Share
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Firefox_Share
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tantek goes to fix dfn
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myfreeweb speaking of integrated experiences, i realized that it'll be pretty easy to add a reader to sweetroll. (and indieweb CMSes in general i guess)… like, fetching mf2 pages is already there, displaying entries is already there! just need to add feed polling + websub
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aaronpk it's true, once you're able to render comments, you've done a lot of the work of showing posts in a reader interface
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[cleverdevil] Indeed, Known had the beginnings of a reader, but Ben has announced that they're planning on killing it.
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tantek exactly, and rendering a reply-context is partway towards rendering a comment!
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[cleverdevil] WordPress.com actually has a reading experience as well.
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myfreeweb yeah i have reply-contexts and comments and all the things
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tantek [cleverdevil]: as does Tumblr before them
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[cleverdevil] Yup!
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myfreeweb also looks like no one implemented a twitter/tumblr style "following" experience in indieweb, only separate "reader" and "blogroll" things. the benefit of "followers" is that you know who your mutuals are
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[chrisaldrich] I didn't read Ben's story as they're killing the reader in Known, but that they're taking it out of core (since it's non-functional) until/when it's fully built out.
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[chrisaldrich] Of course it may be a while before it gets built out...
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[cleverdevil] Oh, interesting.
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[cleverdevil] I may have to take a second look at it...
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tantek myfreeweb - there are a few integrated indieweb reader experiences, but not any with integrated 'following" AFAIK
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sgreger HWC Berlin sends greetings to HWC Nuremberg - sknebel, how is the turnout there?
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myfreeweb yeah that's what i'm talking about, there's no specified way to mark up a list of people you follow, or follow-unfollow events like in activitystreams
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aaronpk i suspect i have some sort of mental barrier i need to overcome around the idea of building a reader, similar to how i wanted checkins on my site for about 4 years and then finally sat down and did it
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tantek myfreeweb - huh? why is this about markup? let's talk about the user feature being supported at all before plumbing
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tantek aaronpk I believe I can help break down the /reader problem
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sknebel sgreger: 17 people here, including 6(?) people completely new to indieweb
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[cleverdevil] Man, this is all making me get really excited for IWS ?
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aaronpk the checkin barrier was mostly solved by dropping the idea that i needed to have a venue database on my site
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sknebel sgreger: did the 2 new RSVPs for berlin turned up?
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aaronpk (i think i talked about this during the checkins session in Düsseldorf, it should be on the video)
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tantek myfreeweb: just for you https://indieweb.org/Firefox_Share#How_to_add_a_provider_to_the_directory
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tantek try seeing if you can get FoxShare added! cc me on the Github issue if you like and I can try to help out :)
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myfreeweb uh foxshare is an alternative to the directory, not something that could be added to it
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tantek aaronpk, yes that was a great description on the video
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myfreeweb it's a site that lets you add whatever to the share toolbar
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myfreeweb instead of stuff only from the official directory
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myfreeweb you could submit quill and micropublish to the directory i guess
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tantek myfreeweb: myfreeweb yes that would be great!
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tantek I did some brainstorming here but haven't been able to follow-up: https://indieweb.org/Firefox_Share#Micropub_share_provider
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sgreger sknebel: we are four, one personal contact of mine as a new member, otherwise the usual suspects. the meetup rsvps did not show up (yet)
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tantek yes - please go ahead and submit Quill and micropublish - that would be a great start!
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tantek notes that HWC Nürnberg posts photos but HWC Berlin does not.
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tantek is not buying the "this is a German cultural" thing about not taking photos
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tantek just sayin
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aaronpk southern germany is very different from berlin ;-)
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tantek updates /Sidebar
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aaronpk I do find this accent much easier to understand tho
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tantek wow that HWC Nürnberg photo! So good!
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tantek !tell gRegorlove check it out https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club#Photos I think we have a new HWC event page header photo :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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myfreeweb ah, Known is in the official firefox directory
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tantek yeah!
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tantek so let's get the others added too!
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ben_thatmustbeme how nice!
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myfreeweb the thing with micropublish/quill is that foxshare lets you add reply, like, repost, note with link as separate services
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tantek and be sure in the description to note when a tool supports Micropub, something like "Quill supports posting using the W3C Micropub standard"
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tantek oh that's odd/interesting - I think the Known one does it as one service
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tantek should probably have just one service per tool rather than per action
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myfreeweb yeah, micropublish has separate pages for these actions
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myfreeweb i like the experience of clicking the reply arrow / star / etc. right in the share bar
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tantek that's a lot of installing for the user. would be easier for the user with just one install step to get all actions for a tool
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tantek and that's a good argument too
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tantek hmm
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myfreeweb but if micropublish had action switch buttons that would be okay too i guess. like buttons that preserve the url between in-reply-to, like-of, repost-of and note content
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tantek yeah!
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ben_thatmustbeme woah, clicking share -> view more (since i don't have any set up)
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ben_thatmustbeme tries to load activations.cdn.mozilla.net
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ben_thatmustbeme which completely freezes firefox for me
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tantek uh that's not good
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myfreeweb for me it redirects to https://activations.cdn.mozilla.net/en-US/ which shows the services
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ben_thatmustbeme i can actually go to that link fine
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myfreeweb one annoying thing about share — as well as extensions that use the same kind of popup sheet — is that if you accidentally click outside, the page in there gets killed and you can e.g. lose your reply's content :( should be mitigated by e.g. micropublish constantly putting the content into localstorage and restoring it back on open
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ben_thatmustbeme disabling and re-enabling add-ons fixed it
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure micro.blog would be interested in getting a micropub provider up there
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myfreeweb what do you mean fixes? that's the intended behavior
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ben_thatmustbeme disabled and re-enabling my add-ons and now its working correctly, not crashing
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ben_thatmustbeme s/crashing/freezing
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tantek so, /readers
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tantek and the reply-context, comment(s) display, notifications, reader incremental code path
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tantek this is where I've roughly documented that thinking: https://indieweb.org/indiemark#aggregation
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tantek aaronpk ^^^
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tantek I think if we can breakdown the /reader feature set into building blocks that you build along the way while implementing IndieMark aggregation levels, we should be able to figure out what's left to build a fully integrated /reader
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tantek I believe that's the lowest friction / lowest barrier path to more /reader implementations
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aaronpk hm yes, that's a reasonable order based on my experience
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schmarty hmm. i meet 1-5.1 for aggregation there but i feel a long way from a personal reader...
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aaronpk same
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snarfed myfreeweb: more on following in https://indieweb.org/follow , eg publishing with u-[x-]follow-of, and POSSEing as friend/follow requests in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/550
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myfreeweb snarfed: oh nice
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@eli_oat I updated my entry on http://indieweb.org with some basic info about my indieweb setup https://mmmicro.eli.li/2017/05/17/313/ (twitter.com/_/status/864910291242504192)
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dougbeal|imac snarfed: updating wordpress-micropub to HEAD didn't seem to change anything. Unless another plugin is causing old render behavior? list-custom-taxonomy-widget?
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snarfed dougbeal|imac: nah, like i mentioned afterward yesterday, i misread your initial q. the new changes are for ownyour*swarm*, not ownyourgram. sorry for the confusion!
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dougbeal|imac snarfed: ah, no problem.
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Zegnat Oh man, another side-file?! https://jsonfeed.org/version/1
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ben_thatmustbeme lol, Zegnat, i'm going to tweet at one of them that its all excess when he already has mf1 on his website
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ben_thatmustbeme http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmanton.org%2F&html=&pretty=on
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Zegnat what is micro.blog?
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Loqi micro.blog is an indie microblogging platform started by Manton Reece, which supports microformats2, Webmention, and Micropub https://indieweb.org/micro.blog
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Zegnat There is already mf2 on Manton’s product
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, its the micro.blog guy?!
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Zegnat Yes
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Zegnat manton.org is “the micro.blog guy” ;)
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Zegnat Brent, inessential.com, is the MarsEdit-and-NetNewsWire-guy, incase his name isn’t instantly recognised either
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ben_thatmustbeme proceeds to tweet http://twtr.io/1RpXGW79hbp
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@dissolve333 @brentsimmons @manton just saw JSON Feed. Why another side file, when you have microformats already in your page? http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmanton.org%2F&html=&pretty=on (twitter.com/_/status/864921828476817409)
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cweiske if you're using a dedicated e-mail address for each service you register at, how do you cope with gravatar/libravatar and that mass of email addresses?
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miklb dougbeal|imac did you see the gist I posted?
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miklb !tell dougbeal|imac check the logs or I'll be back around this evening and can repost it, I have it working on my site now.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] "Our hope is that, because of the lightness of JSON and simplicity of the JSON Feed format, developers will be more attracted to developing for the open web."
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[cleverdevil] I can see the appeal, for sure.
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snarfed cweiske: re dedicated email addrs and gravatar, i added the few i care about to gravatar, and the rest i guess i just don't care :P
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[cleverdevil] After all, if you're using a CMS like WordPress, that doesn't yet support mf2, and trying to get that upstream into themes, core, etc., sometimes you just need to be pragmatic and do something like this.
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cweiske snarfed, I did the same
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[cleverdevil] That said, RSS/Atom are fine, well-supported tech.
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Zegnat Unless RSS readers and Podcast clients (the latter probably being the most mainstream RSS consumer) actually implement JSON feed, I do not see it going anywhere either
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cweiske but I wonder if I should pipe my mail server's log into a libravatar script that automatically generates the icons for each mail address used by me
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cweiske but some services try to get the image but did not send a mail first
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aaronpk I am more interested in JSONFeed not as a publishing format, but as a format that reader clients can use
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aaronpk if you look closely, it's very similar to a microformats JSON feed, which i'm hoping to use as the basis of the Microsub API
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snarfed cweiske: patch libravatar to support wildcards?
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cweiske that does not work protocol-wise
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snarfed ah
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cweiske because the avatar server only sees the hash
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[cleverdevil] Makes sense to me, aaronpk
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cweiske and not the email address itself
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[cleverdevil] Makes readers pretty easy to implement, assuming it takes off ?
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[cleverdevil] Might even be worth having a simple webservice to convert arbitrary RSS/Atom feeds to JSONFeed.
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[cleverdevil] We'll see where it goes.
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aaronpk yep, that's frankly another hesitation around building a reader, which is that microformats JSON is relatively difficult to consume. I don't want every client app to have to deal with that logic, I want client apps to build against a consistent format
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[cleverdevil] ^^^
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[cleverdevil] Hence my suggestion for a microservice for RSS/Atom -> JSONFeed.
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Zegnat Consistency is good. And might be worth the reboot of feed formats by itself. RSS and Atom aren’t always peak-consistency.
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cweiske stares wide-eyed at the chat
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cweiske rss and atom are bad, they said.
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cweiske put your data into html, they said
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cweiske oh noes, parsing that shit is too hard, they said
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cweiske let's make another feed format! yay!
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aaronpk !xkcd standards
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/ http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png
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Loqi ?
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[cleverdevil] Haha
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[cleverdevil] Totally fair!
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aaronpk to be clear, I'm talking about specifically a client-to-server API, not changing what publishers are doing
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Loqi nice
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Zegnat has no plans of implementing JSONFeed
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Zegnat to be clear, cweiske, I am not going to bother with any sidefiles.
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aaronpk this is in the design of Microsub. it's up to your "feed collector" service thingy to do the microformats parsing and consuming, delivering that data in a simpler API for reader clients to use
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Zegnat I would like to see RSS/Atom replaced with JSONFeed for podcasts though, as I definitely see a reason for those to be spread in a non-HTML format. And the current podcast RSS/Atom is a mess, IMHO
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aaronpk notices Marco's name in the "thanks" list and wonders if Overcast plans to support this soon
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Zegnat Oh, Brent actually addresses the mf issue in his post! http://inessential.com/2017/05/17/json_feed
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: why not HTML mf2 for Podcasts?
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KartikPrabhu what's different about podcasts that needs non-HTML?
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aaronpk the group that developed this spec is primarily iOS/native app developers. I do understand the hesitation to consume XML and especially HTML.
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aaronpk from brent: "I also believe that developers (particularly Mac and iOS developers, the group I know best) are so loath to work with XML that they won’t even consider building software that needs an XML parser"
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aaronpk so this format is clearly optimizing for developer needs
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Zegnat Nothing is different. But not all podcasts need a website either. Just an easy to parse feed file (any strict format) for podcast readers. An index of files, moreso then a web resource.
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Zegnat If you want to go h-feed for podcasts, that’s fine. But I feel like rather than excluding overhead by dumping the side-file, you are adding overhead by having a website in the first place.
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KartikPrabhu wait there are podcasts that are not on a website?
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[cleverdevil] Tons.
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KartikPrabhu how does one find such podcasts?
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Zegnat Through your podcast app’s directory.
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KartikPrabhu oh well not so open web then
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Zegnat Their feeds are still (often) publicly accessible. Discovery is just handled differently.
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aaronpk open internet, not open web :)
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Zegnat There are also private sound feeds hosted at capability URLs. Easy to add to clients, secure enough for general use, and no public website only the feed.
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Zegnat when is next-hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-05-17 at Bulbul https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Taking on the networks" by Colin Walker on 2017-05-17 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/05/17/taking-on-the-networks/
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Zegnat Looks like there is a HWC happening that isn’t on that page! HWC Fort Collins.
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tantek Zegnat are they here in IRC?
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Zegnat No.
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Zegnat Isi is setting it up. It is on /hwc as starting. But apparently she has a place for today and it just isn’t added to today’s hwc page.
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Zegnat Poking at her right now on private IM, tantek
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aaronpk oh awesome!
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tantek thanks Zegnat!
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Zegnat For anyone from / around Fort Collins, there is a Facebook group where previous planning happened: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1839938832921558/
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tantek let's get that on the /HWC site!
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tantek er, page
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Zegnat tantek: done
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Zegnat actually, you are a member of that FB group ;)
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tantek lol
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tantek Zegnat: now see if you can get a photo posted!
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Zegnat I’ve offered to do any wiki related stuff she wants to have done, leaving the rest up to her.
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Zegnat is moving to bed shortly
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tantek Zegnat++ for making things work!
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Loqi zegnat has 37 karma in this channel (42 overall)
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gRegorLove On a refresh of Twitter, just got a notice of updated privacy policy and summary about them using your data from other sites with Twitter content on them. Review settings: https://twitter.com/settings/personalization
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 10 minutes ago: check it out https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club#Photos I think we have a new HWC event page header photo :)
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gRegorLove unchecks "Track where you see Twitter content across the web"
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@kevinmarks "I have my website, but it's not connected to all my data" @imogenheap implicitly making the #indieweb case (twitter.com/_/status/864957984635355136)
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Zegnat gRegorLove, that option is already unchecked for me. So either it has been there before, or it is opt-in?
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gRegorLove Don't think it's opt-in. I wouldn't have opted in; I hate stuff like that.
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Zegnat I like that they have a “disable all” button
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dougbeal|mb1 miklb++ yay!
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Loqi miklb has 27 karma in this channel (30 overall)
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Loqi yay!
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miklb dougbeal|mb1 did you test it?
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dougbeal|mb1 miklb: will soon
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked Colin Walker's Taking on the networks" by Michael Runcieman on 2017-05-17 http://michael.runcieman.com/2017/liked-colin-walkers-taking-on-the-networks-6c40bb2fad
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@gRegorLove Looking forward to Homebrew Website Club Bellingham tonight at a new venue, @TheFoundryWA! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-17-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/864970773533995009)
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GWG Afternoon
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miklb GWG I need to test another post, but my 1st ownyourgram didn't seem to bring in a site name. Would that be considered expected behavior?
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GWG Yes. It only brings one in if there is something set for it.
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[cleverdevil] Took a quick crack at JSONFeed for Known... https://cleverdevil.io/content/all/?_t=json
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[cleverdevil] Would be nice if it had some built-in notion of things like bookmarks, likes, reposts, etc.