#indieweb 2017-05-18

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[colinwalker]
Morning all.
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KartikPrabhu
morning [colinwalker]
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j4y_funabashi
morning all
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voxpelli
Morning
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j4y_funabashi
voxpelli: how's things?
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voxpelli
j4y_funabashi: settling down somewhat, so starting to get some time for indieweb projects again :)
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j4y_funabashi
voxpelli: awesome, same here - had a bit of a lull after being on holiday but am now diving back into the long road to /swat0
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voxpelli
j4y_funabashi: awesome! I'm currently working mostly on Micropub and some WebSub realtimeness, but should really get back into the swat0 game and put the final pieces into my service
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voxpelli
I guess though that the WebSub realtimeness can be useful for some of the swat0-parts
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j4y_funabashi
oh cool, I havent looked at websub at all
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jeremycherfas
Good morning Indieweb
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jeremycherfas
What is codebear?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "codebear" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10iC
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jeremycherfas
Sorry. What is omnibear
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jeremycherfas
What is omnibear
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Loqi
Omnibear is a Chrome extension for posting text notes, replies, and likes to your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/Omnibear
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j4y_funabashi
morning jeremycherfas, hows it going?
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jeremycherfas
Haha. I thought you might see that. Not brilliantly well. It’s the huge differences between the mf2 I get from different people that is giving me a lot of trouble.
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Loqi
jeremycherfas: lol
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j4y_funabashi
jeremycherfas: you mean your comment this morning? yes I got it thank you, it is one of the first non-facebook mentions on there :)
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j4y_funabashi
what mf2 problems are you having?
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jeremycherfas
j4y_funabashi I’m just going through the chat logs from last night.
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jeremycherfas
The main problem is to know where to find the key:value pairs I need in the webmentions I receive. They are so different from different senders. And all this hor now has to take place within the Twig templating engine.
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jeremycherfas
Sknebel (I think) had some good ideas about cleaning up the file I receive from the plugin. But I am very much a beginner.
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jeremycherfas
Hoping to work on this at Nurnberg.
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jeremycherfas
With some very smart people.
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j4y_funabashi
so the way I do it is: when I receive the mention I store the source and target urls
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j4y_funabashi
Then when processing I fetch the source html and run it through a mf2 parser
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j4y_funabashi
php-mf2, which seems to standardize the key/values I am looking for
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aaronpk
ah jeremycherfas you are describing the problem I had that led me to make XRay
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aaronpk
instead of doing all the logic in my templating layer, I store a normalized version of the comment that I create using the XRay library
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Loqi
[barnabywalters] php-mf-cleaner: Takes microformats2 array structure and makes it more sane. Counterpart to indieweb/php-mf2
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Loqi
[aaronpk] XRay: X-Ray returns structured data from any URL
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jeremycherfas
Right. I use Grav CMS and a webmentions plugin, which gives me a parsed feed, but the feed is very different from different commenters. So my plan is to look at the plugin and see whether I can send what it receives to https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner
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Loqi
[barnabywalters] php-mf-cleaner: Takes microformats2 array structure and makes it more sane. Counterpart to indieweb/php-mf2
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voxpelli
I do the same thing, I also normalize the data and makes use of the normalized version instead
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jeremycherfas
Aaronpk I’m thinking I may have to do the same. Although there is also a Twig extension that will step recursively through a complex array in search of h-card and h-entry and then allow me to extract just those sub-arrays.
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j4y_funabashi
aaronpk: yeah I store the mf2 then do similar normalizing in the view layer before passing to templates so they can be simple
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jeremycherfas
All of which is stuff I need to learn about.
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aaronpk
jeremycherfas: careful with that because you might start hitting edge cases with the /authorship algorithm for example. you have to be very careful about matching URL properties of nested objects. I spent quite a while tracking down edge cases to put into the XRay tests
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aaronpk
here's an example of all the variations of how people specify the authors of their posts that I found https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/tree/master/tests/data/author.example.com
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jeremycherfas
aaronpk Thanks. That certainly is my current problem, and I am woking only with two sample sets of data, one from chrisaldrich and one from zegnat
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j4y_funabashi
yeah author is tricky as you sometimes have to fetch urls
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voxpelli
jeremycherfas: sounds like you could make use of https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger ;)
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Loqi
[voxpelli] node-webmention-testpinger: A tool to ping your site with a variety of real world WebMentions
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voxpelli
should ensure that the examples in there gets updated
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jeremycherfas
Voxpelli that would assume that I would know how to make use of it.
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jeremycherfas
Learning, but very slowly.
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voxpelli
jeremycherfas: if you have node.js locally then it's all described here: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger#usage-on-cli
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Loqi
[voxpelli] node-webmention-testpinger: A tool to ping your site with a variety of real world WebMentions
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voxpelli
it basically spins up a local server and pings your site with clones of real world websites that's served by that local server and which are modified there to point to your site
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jeremycherfas
Right now, I don’t have node.js locally.
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voxpelli
I see :) It's a nice thing to have, lots of great little tools one can use then
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jeremycherfas
That’s a good recommentdation. Something else to learn about.
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jeremycherfas
I’ve also been reading about Twig extensions, and it might be that I can use Xray or php-mf-cleaner in an extension. That would be interesting, and maybe the easiest.
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jeremycherfas
Aaronpk Is there a way to get prettified json out of the online X-ray?
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aaronpk
hm i thought it did
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aaronpk
ah add &pretty=true to the URL
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jeremycherfas
runs smack into zegnat being unable to feed Xray quickly enough.
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aaronpk
whoops
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aaronpk
add &timeout=10
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jeremycherfas
What’s the unit of that? Because I’m getting Operation timed out after 4001 milliseconds even after adding that. Maybe I need to clear some sort of cache.
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@mrkrndvs
@johnjohnston Is there any content that you don't publish via #indieweb I choose not to.add likes and RTs
(twtr.io/1Rqz9QK3uA8)
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aaronpk
hm i didn't think it would cache the timeout result
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aaronpk
try 20
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jeremycherfas
I think zegnat’s site may be having issues. I’m now getting a 500 error. I think I’ll go and make my lunch.
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aaronpk
a 500 error from xray?
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jeremycherfas
I think so “{"data":{"type":"unknown"},"url":"https://licit.li/5915ba6a2f224&timeout=20","code":500}”
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aaronpk
oh, that's actually saying it got a 500 from his site
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aaronpk
oh wait something is wrong
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jeremycherfas
I should be adding the &timeout to the URL at the top, not the one in the text enrtry field?
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aaronpk
looks like it's sending the timeout parameter to his site. try putting the timeout parameter before his URL: https://xray.p3k.io/parse?timeout=20&pretty=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Flicit.li%2F5915ba6a2f224
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aaronpk
correct
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jeremycherfas
That did it. Many thanks.
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cweiske
aaronpk, I've got 410 Gone support in phubb, at least locally
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GWG
Morning
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Loqi
guten morgen
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pfefferle
GWG morning
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Loqi
pfefferle: GWG left you a message 1 day, 1 hour ago: I have seen theirs, but this new URL seems to parse it differently.
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skippy
aloha indieweb.
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[kevinmarks]
Eyup skippy
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@johnjohnston
@mrkrndvs Not sure what you mean. I am taking baby #Indieweb steps at the mo.
(twtr.io/1RrCmPWDCtM)
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gRegorLove
Good morning, indieweb
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "I've updated my WithKnown install to v0.9.9 Derbyshire!" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-05-18 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/ive-updated-my-withknown-install-to-v099-derbyshire
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@ChrisAldrich
@johnjohnston I suspect @mrkrndvs is talking about multiple content types and making subsets easier to subscribe to http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/
(twtr.io/1RrcbqXYLZ4)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Comment on RSS Feeds: A Follow up on My IndieWeb Commitment 2017 by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-05-18 http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/#comment-34676
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@Pinboard
Put another way, what is the equivalent of Dreamweaver? Or is this another case of the modern web not being able to do what the old web did?
(twtr.io/1RrLbkypuCH)
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@Pinboard
The worst mistake the web ever made was improving Javascript performance in the browser
(twtr.io/1RrLHL4FT0H)
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gRegorLove
At HWC last night someone said Webflow looks like a modern Dreamweaver, but in the browser.
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gRegorLove
Just a comment; no experience with it
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KartikPrabhu
what's the relation between Dreamweaver and Javascript?
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KartikPrabhu
seems like a false equivalence
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KartikPrabhu
also Dreamweaver was pretty bad and generating good HTML
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KartikPrabhu
Frontpage was worse
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gRegorLove
I learned from that thread that Dreamweaver is still actively developed
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miklb
Wouldn't CodePen be a better example of Dreamweaver for the modern web?
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KartikPrabhu
miklb: yes!
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KartikPrabhu
but i guess people want some WYSIWYG type thing, which for the modern web is a mistake IMO
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tantek
if you want WYSIWYG, use PNG or JPG :P
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KartikPrabhu
right exactly
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KartikPrabhu
for a fluid, responsive web accessed on so many devices WYSIWYG is simply bad
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KartikPrabhu
make a pdf/JPG/PNG as tantek said
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KartikPrabhu
in fact responsive images also throws the WYSIWYG of images out the window
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tantek
fortunately responsive images is done *outside* PNG or JPG :)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Yes: I'm all booked and looking forward to attending IndieWeb Summit 2017." by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-05-17 http://werd.io/2017/yes-im-all-booked-and-looking-forward-to-attending-indieweb
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gRegorLove
Awkward having the comment author show up there ^
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tantek
indeed - that's gotta be something that can get fixed. is that a problem with Loqi, superfeedr, RSS, or the original posting site?
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Loqi
I think superfeedr
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tantek
well that settles it. 😂
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@m_ott
And have a wonderful #IndieWebCamp NUE y'all!
(twtr.io/1RrsP8acC6Q)
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@mrkrndvs
@ChrisAldrich @johnjohnston @t I think that the premise was that with #indieweb you have control over what is shown in/on your space and how
(twtr.io/1RrwsFGKmR5)
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@mrkrndvs
@ChrisAldrich @johnjohnston @t As my #indieweb comments go to spam (not sure why, but they do) when I manually acce… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865329690285752320
(twtr.io/1RrwyPkk8yf)
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[kiai]
Bummed I missed the meetup yesterday.
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KartikPrabhu
[kiai]: you can always work on your site without the meetup ;) and post things you worked on here :)
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KartikPrabhu
HWCs are very fun though
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KartikPrabhu
[kiai]: what's your URL? just curious to see :)
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GWG
Do we have a venue for the Summit yet?
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KartikPrabhu
what is summit?
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GWG
So yes
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gRegorLove
Afternoon, indieweb
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GWG
Hi, gRegorLove
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GWG
My boss approved my taking off for the Summit
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GWG
If I can get there economically.
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aaronpk
We had a fun bit of pre indiewebcamp in Nürnberg tonight! There's already at least one topic set for the schedule for Saturday now
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GWG
aaronpk: Topic being?
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aaronpk
We we're talking about the implications of German copyright law on displaying Webmentions
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GWG
Fun
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dougbeal
GWG: I moved kind_views/kind-photo.php to a child theme (I tried it in the child theme root as well), and it isn't used to render anymore. Do I need to load it explicitly?
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GWG
No.
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GWG
It should work in a child theme.
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aaronpk
wow, anyone explored this new twitter thingy that shows you which accounts have paid to target you?
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GWG
I can test for that, dougbeal
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: ooo no I did turn off all the thirdparty crap they just introduced though
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gRegorLove
Whoa, what aaronpk?
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dougbeal
GWG: cool, thanks. Maybe get_template_directory is pointing at the parent theme?
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gRegorLove
dougbeal: Correct, it does that (confusingly)
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Twitter has no idea how old I am, but got my interests down pretty well. The list of advertisers targeting me is pretty fun to browse through too. Find your data at: https://twitter.com/settings/your_twitter_data https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/19/2/photo.png
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GWG
dougbeal: I am positive I saw something about that
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dougbeal
get_stylesheet_directory_uri
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gRegorLove
"Use get_stylesheet_directory() to get the absolute path to the child theme directory." LOL WordPress
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dougbeal
lol, also get_stylesheet_directory(), which is actually equivalent to get_template_directory
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dougbeal
the debug console doesn't seem to be the right context to call them, as I'm not getting any output
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mblaney
trying to work out why my reader 500's on a particular feed
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GWG
dougbeal: The codex was superseded by the developer's reference
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mblaney
finds that it's because SimplePie runs out of memory...
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mblaney
looks into why it runs out of memory and find a 30mb gif
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mblaney
stops debugging to just enjoy the gif :-)
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Loqi
[Ricardo Mendes] Gif or Jif ? "The Oxford English Dictionary accepts both pronunciations," - are you sure ? 1 min read Gif or Jif ? "The Oxford English Dictionary accepts both pronunciation...
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dougbeal
GWG: changing it to get_stylesheet_directory fixes it
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dougbeal
Have to run, back in a hour or so.
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GWG
I will look into this.
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dougbeal
GWG: do you want me to file and issue?
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gRegorLove
codex is still correct for a lot of things, especially old functions like that which will probably never change
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GWG
dougbeal: Please do.
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gRegorLove
I wish they forwarded codex pages, though. I still search it out of habit then remember the new pages
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ben_thatmustbeme
anyone interested in a command line mf2 parse... simply run 'sudo gem install microformats'
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ben_thatmustbeme
the ruby parser includes a command line script 'microformats'
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Loqi
Tantek Çelik h
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ben_thatmustbeme
will give you JSON equivalent :)
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miklb
sudo? ick ;-)
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GWG
Ick?
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miklb
at least in a macOS environment, sudo installing gems bad things can happen from my experience.
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GWG
Installing anything can make bad things happen.
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miklb
sure…
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tanlaan
I'd like to take the route of eating my own dogfood. What language would be best by today's standards? PHP, node.js, Ruby, Django/python?
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GWG
Only install software from trusted sources.
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GWG
tanlaan: That's a controversial question.
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GWG
Use what you are comfortable with
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tanlaan
GWG: very lol
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tanlaan
I'm just thinking of taking this on with the Unix philosophy and making every part very small but functional for what it does to be able to piece it together in the end
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tanlaan
PHP has its roots, node.j has async, Ruby has its magic, and python has its utility
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dougbeal
Is there any reason to allow directory listings of my wordpress site?
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GWG
dougbeal: I'd suggest you don't.
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miklb
what are directory listings?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "directory listings" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10iE
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[shaners]
I added JSON Feed to the CrimethInc. site today. It took two hours and was pretty easy. Most of the time was spent digging through my own code. The spec is clearly written and stuff.
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[shaners]
I added it for the same reason I have an Atom feed and @adactio has AMP views. Because why not. It’s just another view of the same data. It’s an experiment. And it was quick and easy.
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ben_thatmustbeme
I used to think that, but lately I've just realized it's not really worth my time
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ben_thatmustbeme
And it promotes people just adding yet another serialization format
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Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-05-19.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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dougbeal
What is approve webmentions
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "approve webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10iF
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dougbeal
What is wordpress
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Loqi
WordPress is open source CMS software used by many on the Indieweb as well as a blog hosting service https://indieweb.org/WordPress
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dougbeal
What is wordpress approve webmentions
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "wordpress approve webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10iG
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tanlaan
I've been trying to figure this out by trial and error. On the install of Known, I had to change the permissions for my Uploads folder. I tried all the variations for permissions until I ended up with 777 which doesn't sit right with me. I figured even a 775 would have functioned if it was in the same group as the file itself. Anyone who has used i
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tanlaan
t know what permissions they have set that functions?
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miklb
dougbeal are you looking to unspam webmentions?
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dougbeal
miklb: autoapprove instragram comments via OwnYourGram
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dougbeal
miklb: I haven't enabled Akismet
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miklb
ah, I'm not sure if anyone has solved that. There is a little function you can use to make sure webmentions don't go to spam.
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miklb
https://gist.github.com/miklb/5f06c91eaa494bab663917099ec786e5 I use that and most of my likes/reposts get approved now
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miklb
replies get turned into native WP comments, so that is another ball of wax.
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dougbeal
Oh, they are comming via Bridgy, that makes sense.
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dougbeal
Strange, 22 Bridgy comments are not content_type webmention
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miklb
right, an actual reply vs a like/repost is converted to a base comment type.
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miklb
that was tricky for me in doing facepiles for likes and reposts and then displaying replies separately.
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miklb
without displaying the likes/replies in the comments I should clarify
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dougbeal
is there a facepile plugin?
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dougbeal
What is a facepile
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Loqi
A Facepile is a way of showing interactions for a page/site by using profile pictures https://indieweb.org/facepile
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GWG
There was. It broke.
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miklb
dougbeal if you are feeling adventurous you can dig into my frankenstein comments template and roll your own. It uses semantic linkbacks https://gist.github.com/miklb/4ba5ea34dc7ad8031afea9414d477bce
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miklb
I will have a version of that in the theme I'm working on
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dougbeal
miklb: possibly, not sure what I will focus on next
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[colinwalker]
miklb Ah, so it's that auto-approve snippet that is causing some of my webmentions to loose the comment_type?
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[colinwalker]
Or did I misunderstand that.
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miklb
[colinwalker] no, shouldn't be, that just keeps it from automatically going into spam.
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[colinwalker]
Ah, misunderstood then 😉
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miklb
If a webmention is a like/repost or some other type, it keeps the webmention comment type. If it's a reply, then it becomes a native WP comment
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[colinwalker]
It's annoying - stops them appearing on my directory page
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miklb
GWG can better explain the reasoning behind that, but it's basically because WordPress core doesn't fully support comment types.
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miklb
half baked at best is being kind
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[colinwalker]
Is there no way to force it in the database when received?
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dougbeal
is the commentmeta part of core WP?
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miklb
to not strip the webmention type? I would have to look closer at the code
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miklb
[colinwalker] you can do a custom comment query though to do both can't you?
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miklb
dougbeal yes, comment meta is part of core. it's the type part that is half baked
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[colinwalker]
I could but the idea was filtering by webmentions ;) I'll have another look though
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miklb
[colinwalker] I'll have to look at the tables again, but there may still be meta query you can add to keep the webmention replies in the query.
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miklb
Which reminds me, I have notes for a draft post on all of this.
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dougbeal
actually, is 1 just not-spam?
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dougbeal
Oh, 0 pending, 1 approved "spam" spam
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miklb
correct
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dougbeal
miklb: what is your wordpress development workflow? Right now I have setup my child theme as a remote git branch, and push to it
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miklb
dougbeal I have my whole site in a private repo currently.
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miklb
I run nginx/php/mariadb locally so it's close enough to my live site's environment
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miklb
I do have some submodules for plugins so I can test/use master. I should break out my theme as a submodule but I'm lazy
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miklb
actually, wordpress is a git submodule as well.
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miklb
[colinwalker] looking, if you are using semantic linkbacks, I think you could add a commentmeta query to include semantic_linkback_type => reply to include those that aren't a webmention type.
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miklb
worries he's talking too much #dev for the general channel
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dougbeal
What is indieweb-dev
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb-dev" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10iH
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[colinwalker]
miklb I was trying to remove the reliance but I'll give it a try
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[colinwalker]
Thanks
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dougbeal
Do you need facebook platform enabled to syndicate posts to facebook?
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miklb
I don't do much w/Facebook, but I do have bridgy configured with FB and have syndicated and gotten linkbacks using bridgy publish
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dougbeal
do you just sign in with another site to add it to brid.gy?
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dougbeal
I guess I haven't configure any syndication urls on my site
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miklb
no, just authorize bridgy for what ever services, and then the bridgy publish plugin has options for which services to include (Twitter, FB, Flickr). you then get checkboxes on the new post screen which ones to send that post to.
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miklb
send to == syndicate to
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dougbeal
I wonder if my facebook profile isn't public enough to show my website link
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miklb
are you not able to authorize bridgy with your FB account?
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miklb
anyway, melatonin kickin' in. night all!
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Zegnat
Good night miklb
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Zegnat
And good morning IndieWeb!
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Loqi
gute nacht!
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dougbeal
o/ miklb
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dougbeal
miklb: I just needed to log in
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dougbeal
miklb: and turn on platform
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pfefferle
good morning
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Loqi
morning!
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