#indieweb 2017-05-30

2017-05-30 UTC
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[cleverdevil] Afternoon, IndieWeb ?
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[cleverdevil] Catching up on the earlier discussion re: JSON Feed and JF2.
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[cleverdevil] I admit, I had never even looked at JF2 before tinkering on the JSON Feed implementation for Known.
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[cleverdevil] I just had learned about JSON Feed and thought it'd be fun to add to Known.
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[cleverdevil] While I was doing so, I was thinking, "well, there is an extension capability in the spec, maybe I could add some of this additional metadata I store."
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[cleverdevil] Anyway, please do continue to guide things in the right direction on the issue I filed on JSON Feed - https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/51
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Loqi [cleverdevil] #51 Representing alternate post types
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[cleverdevil] I'm delighted to change the Known implementation to provide a good example for others to follow who insist on implementing JSON Feed, and I am also thinking about working on a JF2 feed implementation for Known as well, if I can get some guidance.
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aaronpk voxpelli++ for saying this better than I could have https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/51#issuecomment-304665854
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Loqi voxpelli has 92 karma in this channel (104 overall)
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Loqi [voxpelli] @cleverdevil `_indieweb` sounds odd as an extension name. There's no such thing as an *indieweb* format. Maybe you're thinking Microformats 2 or some alternate representation of it, like [jf2](http://microformats.org/wiki/jf2)? Microformats 2 i...
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[cleverdevil] Yes, very very good feedback!
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[cleverdevil] Not even sure why I used the name to begin with ?
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aaronpk Cause naming is hard :-)
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[cleverdevil] One thing I did manage to sneak into the Known implementation is an ability for objects to implement a "getMetadataForFeed" method that gets embedded in the (poorly named) extension.
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[cleverdevil] Well, the method gets called to generate what gets embedded, I should say.
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[cleverdevil] My goal at IWS is to spend day two working on a fresh Micropub implementation for Known that passes as much of https://micropub.rocks as possible.
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[cleverdevil] And allows plugins to hook in and provide Micropub support for additional types of content without having to change the core implementation.
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aaronpk Ah awesome
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[cleverdevil] I'm still learning a *lot*, so I'm hoping to get some help from others present.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb 2017" by Ryan Gallagher on 2017-05-29 http://tracking.feedpress.it/link/13030/5931297
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@eli_oat ? IndieWeb Summit | Manton Reece, http://www.manton.org/2017/05/indieweb-summit.html (twitter.com/_/status/869402293459931138)
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@eli_oat I love the framing here: as I understand it, Colin is saying that the indieweb is more social network-y than the b… https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20170530043248 (twitter.com/_/status/869413838566957056)
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bignose “[…] efforts to combat fake news by implementing blockchain. I wonder if the indieweb can rise to the challenge?”
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bignose ZeroNet is one implementation that uses blockchain and torrents <URL: https://zeronet.io/>
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bignose the code base needs a lot of work though :-/
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KartikPrabhu why can't "fake news" propagate on blockchains.
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KartikPrabhu ?
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bignose KartikPrabhu: that's part of the author (@eli_oat)'s point that fake news propagates and is unquestioned in part because the source isn't reliably traceable.
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KartikPrabhu yes, and making tracing the source more obscure with blockchain is going to help?
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bignose I think @eli_oat is asserting that with reliable traceability of shared links back to the source (unlike today's big-name social link sharing), something something disprove fake news.
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KartikPrabhu the "something someting" is the big problem
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bignose my position rather is that people tend not to care very much whether stuff they share is true :-/
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KartikPrabhu I would claim to be pretty tech pro-efficient but I don't understand blockchain or its veracity in the least
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bignose but I agree in part: with reliable traceability of links being the norm, it would be possible to distinguish. today it's not the norm and so it's not feasible to distinguish.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: ok then, we are of the same opinion :)
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jjuran I think the salient point is the use of a Merkle tree.
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KartikPrabhu except I don't think obscure blockchain helps anyone
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KartikPrabhu jjuran: ok what's a Merkel tree?
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bignose blockchain I think is just an example of something that can do the job, today.
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KartikPrabhu this is all very off topic
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bignose it's not essential that it be blockchain.
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jjuran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree
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bignose the reliable and verifiable linkage to the source, is the salient feature I think.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: my point is that making things harder to find with strange tech jargon/tech is not helping
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jjuran Git uses them, at both the directory and commit levels.
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bignose KartikPrabhu: well @eli_oat was explicitly addressing the tech community with that comment, I think :-)
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KartikPrabhu jjuran: yes and I don't understand Git either
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KartikPrabhu it is all /plumbing jargon unless there is a good way/UI for it to be useful
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jjuran KartikPrabhu: If you write a blog, and every blog entry includes a cryptographic checksum of the previous entry, then a single checksum can be used to verify not only that day's blog entry, but every entry prior.
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bignose KartikPrabhu: now I'm not understanding your objection; you seem to be complaining about soemthing @eli_oat wasn't saying.
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jjuran That
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KartikPrabhu jjuran: yes, all very complicated
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bignose the post doesn't say “this is available for everyone to use now!”, it's saying “I wonder whether someone will build this from the pieces lying around?”
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jjuran That's a Merkle tree, albeit a linear one.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: I was objecting to it being a solution to anything
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KartikPrabhu making verifying something more compicated by wrapping it in some other technology that very few people understand is not going to help
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KartikPrabhu this is very off-topic here, feel free to move to #chat
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bignose ‘#chat’?
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KartikPrabhu bignose: I think indie-chat is the channel for off-topic stuff
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KartikPrabhu oops sorry indiechat
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gRegorLove Or #indieweb-chat if you're in Slack
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gRegorLove Er, got that backwards. #chat in Slack maps to #indieweb-chat in IRC.
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gRegorLove #indiechat isn't bridged, but has more people since it's been the off-topic channel longer
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KartikPrabhu hmmm weird
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gRegorLove I think it only exists like that because #indiechat has never been logged on indieweb.org, and #chat in Slack is logged (up to the free Slack threshold)
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KartikPrabhu I thought the whole point of indiechat was that it was not logged and hence for off-topic stuff
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gRegorLove Correct
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gRegorLove So if it was mapped to Slack, it would start being logged, albeit temporarily (in Slack)
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KartikPrabhu hmm weird! no private Slack channels/.
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KartikPrabhu ?
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gRegorLove So it's kept separate so that assumption of no logging is kept. At least for now, I think.
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gRegorLove I dunno
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bignose one good reason to use Matrix (with the Riot client) instead of Slack.
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gRegorLove Logging? Or lack of?
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bignose both :-)
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bignose also, private or not, regardless of whether you pay someone
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bignose federation means no-one gets to say “we could do that but you have to get everyone to hand over their personal data”
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KartikPrabhu bignose: yeah, which is why i like indieweb :)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Wouldn’t you just know it. The day after I upgrade Independent Publisher WP theme, there’s a new release. Very few changes from the developer version, so that’s OK.
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cweiske Apparently opening bug reports is discouraged in grav, https://github.com/getgrav/grav-plugin-feed/issues/24
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Loqi [cweiske] #24 Use json_encode for JSON feed
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jeremycherfas I saw that exchange :). And I looked at the new code and it does appear to use jcson_decode, but maybe not in the way you hoped.
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: you were a bit snippy
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jeremycherfas Cleverdevil: Re: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-05-30/1496107321505000 That sounds like a great thing to have.
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Loqi [[cleverdevil]] My goal at IWS is to spend day two working on a fresh Micropub implementation for Known that passes as much of https://micropub.rocks as possible.
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cweiske why "fresh"? why not adjust the current one?
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, so I should keep "told you so" posts to my blog and not bug reports?
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cweiske s/told you so/you're doing it wrong/
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I would recommend that :)
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KartikPrabhu specially if you want the bug reports to be fixed :P
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cweiske I actually don't use grav at all
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cweiske just wanted to point out the obvious problem
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I get why you did it. but the terse nature of interwebs conversation is often taken to be rude
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jeremycherfas It’s an ongoing problem, that “perceived rudeness” thing. And a lot of it has to do with familiarity, even if only online. If I’ve seen stuff from you before, I’m more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.
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KartikPrabhu jeremycherfas: yes, familiarity is certainly an aspect of it
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[colinwalker] Morning all
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on The IndieWeb and Journalism by Jeremy Cherfas" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-05-30 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/#comment-34767
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gRegorLove o/ [colinwalker]
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gRegorLove [colinwalker]: I just listened to your "Ten Years" microcast. I liked it, and the idea of the microcast.
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jeremycherfas Hi colinwalker
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gRegorLove You should add your experience to /podcast and the brainstorming section on there
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Loqi it is probable
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gRegorLove gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi gives back the cookie
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gRegorLove :(
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KartikPrabhu gives Loqi a cake
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Loqi jumps on the cake
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cweiske now who is rude, Loqi?
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KartikPrabhu \o/ I win!
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jeremycherfas How do I persuade Quill that I really do have some syndication targets at my Known site?
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gRegorLove Is Known definitely responding to ?q=syndicate-to correctly?
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jeremycherfas Who can tell? That is, I don’t seem to get a good response from webmention.rocks. Is there another tool that I can check with?
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[colinwalker] gregorlove thanks :) yeah, will do.
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[colinwalker] Hey jeremycherfas
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gRegorLove micropub.rocks you mean?
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jeremycherfas I do. Sorry.
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cweiske jeremycherfas, open http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/micropub/endpoint?q=syndicate-to
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cweiske what do you get?
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gRegorLove requires access token
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jeremycherfas {"error":"forbidden","error_description":"","messages":[]} Which says it all. I suppose. I better take this up with WithKnown
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cweiske jeremycherfas, micropub clients send an access token
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gRegorLove No, that's expected before you do the auth dance with Quill
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cweiske and might get a different response
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jeremycherfas I’ve authed with Quill. Often.
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jeremycherfas I can post just fine, I just can’t get Quill to see my syndication targets
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gRegorLove Sure, I'm just explaining why accessing that endpoint URL directly will return that message now.
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cweiske so we need your access token to test it
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cweiske does quill display access tokens?
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jeremycherfas Ah. OK. Let me see.
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cweiske it does
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cweiske in "settings"
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cweiske curl -H 'Authorization: Bearer TOKEN' http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/micropub/endpoint?q=syndicate-to
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cweiske replace TOKEN with the value on the quill settings page
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cweiske oh oh
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cweiske see the "BC" section
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cweiske syndicate-to vs. mp-syndicate-to
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cweiske no, forget that
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cweiske all fine
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cweiske try the curl command jeremycherfas
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gRegorLove Known plugin code looks like it's returning 'syndicate-to' in the GET request, so that's up to date with the spec
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jeremycherfas Same error: jeremycherfas$ curl -H 'Authorization: Bearer fa4f02b340d67df3d28c4588b47b5340' http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/micropub/endpoint?q=syndicate-to
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jeremycherfas {"error":"forbidden","error_description":"","messages":[]}
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jeremycherfas I trust you guys with my token
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gRegorLove You'll want to regenerate that access token :)
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cweiske and the whole world because of chat logs
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jeremycherfas Does it depend on a specific Known plugin being enabled?
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gRegorLove Not sure. I don't think it should, unless there's nowhere in core settings to set up Twitter accounts, etc.
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cweiske no
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cweiske try normal config, jeremycherfas : ?q=config
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cweiske in the URL instead of ?q=syndicate-to
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gRegorLove jeremycherfas: That token looks incomplete
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gRegorLove Mine is 300 characters
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jeremycherfas No matches for wildcard 'http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/micropub/endpoint?q=config'.
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cweiske your shell said that
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cweiske not curl
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jeremycherfas Oh bugger. Sorry.
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gRegorLove I get the same forbidden reponses for both
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jeremycherfas Term gives same error {"error":"forbidden","error_description":"","messages":[]}
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cweiske that's strange
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jeremycherfas Since the latest upgrade to Known a few of the indieweb plugins have been behaving oddly. But this problem of mine with Quill long predates that.
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jeremycherfas I guess I ought to file a “nice” bug report with Known.
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gRegorLove You should log out of Quill and log in again to regenerate that access token.
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gRegorLove And disregard my comment about access token length. looks like Known uses md5 when making tokens.
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jeremycherfas Gregorlove: yeah, I double-checked. I’ll generate a new one anyway.
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cweiske did you know that there is no way for micropub clients to tell the server that a token should be considered invalid?
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cweiske if known does not have a delete-tokens user interface, the old token is still valid
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cweiske regardless if jeremy regenerated one in quill
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jeremycherfas Known does have a delete authorizations interface. It has always puzzled me that there are several entries there for Quill.
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gRegorLove Ah, right. Thinking was backwards.
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gRegorLove Time for sleep!
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[colinwalker] Night ?
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Zegnat cweiske, wow that grav feed bug.
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cweiske that kind of people make code of conducts
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Zegnat I think there is an expectation problem when it comes to issues and PRs anyway. Some projects expect an issue for discussion and a PR only when everything has been decided. Other projects encourage PRs and will have a discussion at the PR. You never really know what to do
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jjuran Here's my own take on building an abuse-resistant communication system: https://www.reticule.org/ [Content warning: vaporware]
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jjuran cweiske: I agree that it's best to generate markup and protocol syntax automatically.
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j4y_funabashi morning all
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[colinwalker] Hey
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Zegnat jjuran: interesting idea on the system, question is, have you built it yet? ;)
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jjuran Zegnat: <jjuran> [Content warning: vaporware]
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jjuran So far I have an Ed25519-based digital signature tool: https://www.arcsign.org/
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jjuran Implementation is relatively easy. The hard part is designing formats and protocols, and making policies.
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Zegnat jjuran: contact link in the footer is broken on both reticule and arcsign it seems
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jjuran Zegnat: Yeah, that part of the template assumes it's on a specific site. For some sites I have .htaccess redirects.
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jjuran needs to do some webmastering
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jeremycherfas Jjuran++ for old-skool badges
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Loqi jjuran has 3 karma
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jjuran haha, thanks
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Loqi hehe
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jjuran If the page doesn't validate, that's a bug
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Loqi [superfeedr] "What&#8217;s in a name?" by Colin Walker on 2017-05-30 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/05/30/whats-in-a-name/
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Zegnat voxpelli, first (AFAIK) podcast player with JSON Feed support has dropped: https://medium.com/breakeraudio/breaker-adds-support-for-json-feed-eddbd4afd0f3
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: you beat me to that.
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Zegnat To the podcast player?
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jeremycherfas To posting the article.
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jeremycherfas I’m a bit confused about micropub.rocks, and I cannot seem to find a reasonably simple guide to how to use it. Is it something I could use to check why the Known micropub endpoint gives Quill all the errors I have been seeing?
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cweiske jeremycherfas, maybe ask on #knownchat to debug this issue further
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jeremycherfas Cweiske: I have raised an issue https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1768 and that’ll have to do for now. Mapkyca is aware of it.
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Loqi [jeremycherfas] #1768 Failure to find syndication endpoints
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jeremycherfas I cannot in all honesty take it any further. Thanks again for your help.
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: a “failing test” usually means adding a PHPUnit test case with a valid input and the output you expected, which the code cannot currently pass.
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Zegnat For future reference :)
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jeremycherfas Thanks. I kind of knew that, but not where to find such a unit test.
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Zegnat ? thought I’d clarify. Less jargon more open
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jeremycherfas Absolutely, and much appreciated.
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@sebastiangreger Tomorrow Wed 31.5. 19:00: 8th Homebrew Website Club Berlin, at Starbucks Sony Center (Potsdamer Platz) #indieweb http://sebastiangreger.net/2017/05/homebrew-website-club-berlin-2017-05-31/ (twitter.com/_/status/869505182551429120)
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petermolnar back on the topic of webrings, which we touched a few times: I wonder if it would make sense to somehow show related content for posts from other indieweb site, for example, based on tags or text similarity analysis
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Zegnat Sort of a “Similar posts in the IndieWeb ring” section?
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petermolnar so, for example: I have a photos post with tag #mountains; when I like, bookmark, whatever remote url, I could fetch it, parse it, and show as related
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petermolnar yes, Zegnat
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petermolnar if it also has #mountains
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petermolnar or a text/photo/deepdarkmagic analysis shows it as related
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petermolnar it's not simple
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Zegnat what is similar post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "similar post" yet. Would you like to create it?
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petermolnar but could mimic recommendation systems
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petermolnar and if the liked/bookmarked/etc post has recommendations, those could be pulled as well, salmention-wise, with a limited depth or course
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petermolnar because one of my biggest itches is content discovery
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Zegnat Could be great for discovery, that's true.
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petermolnar "#indierecomgine"
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petermolnar indie recommendation engine
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cweiske an indie planet would be enough for me at first
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petermolnar you're about to go urbit. never go urbit.
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petermolnar what is Urbit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Urbit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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petermolnar Urbit is whatever you understand from https://urbit.org/
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat That page is JS;DR, petermolnar, so I don’t understand any of it ;)
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petermolnar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11817721
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Zegnat Urbit is “an OS admittedly in the metaphorical sense”. Glad we got that cleared up!
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petermolnar https://github.com/urbit/docs/blob/master/docs/about/overview.md
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sknebel I guess cweiske meant "planet" as in "feed agregator", not in "whatever urbit is"
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petermolnar I believe so, but indie planet ticked my urbit-detector
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Zegnat what is planet?
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Loqi A planet, in the context of the indieweb, and blogs/feeds for even longer, is a site that aggregates feeds/updates from a variety of sources, typically focused on a particular topic or community https://indieweb.org/planet
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Zegnat That ^^^
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petermolnar !tell aaronpk what are the "X Coins" under some of your posts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel petermolnar: those are "coins" from foursquare – their gamifaction coins system. ownyourswarm backfeeds those as well
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sknebel (yes, I was very confused at first as well)
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petermolnar is anyone aware of a system that recommends tagging based on geolocation?
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jeremycherfas Petermolnar: I don’t know if this is what you mean, but Instagram suggests different locations for a photo. But not non-place tags.
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petermolnar no, I'm after the revese of that :)
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petermolnar I have the location, I'm lazy to hand-tag and it would be nice to have a suggested list of tags for a certain location
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jeremycherfas I know of nothing like that.
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petermolnar I guess I could do something similar with Flickr, as in request image finds for a location with a certain range, get the tags for all of them and pull the top X
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jeremycherfas Unless there were some clever way of using, say, Flickr to see what tags are associated with a location?
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jeremycherfas Snap!
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sknebel haven't seen anything like that either, at least not explicitly called out (who knows what google autotagging does and not do in the background). pulling flickr, maybe instagram, .. as data sources would be an option
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sknebel in cities checking OSM, wikipedia, foursquare might be other data sources
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sknebel (if you want to identify landmarks in the area)
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petermolnar https://www.flickr.com/services/api/explore/flickr.photos.search - lat, lon, radius
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petermolnar ok, this might actually work
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petermolnar right, I'm now pulling the top 10 tags based on the most frequent hand-added tags from at max 100 flickr photos for the given latitude/longitude for a radius of 500m
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petermolnar I'm curious what it will give me
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aaronpk Oh look, someone fixed the grav template to use json_encode https://github.com/getgrav/grav-plugin-feed/pull/25
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Loqi aaronpk: petermolnar left you a message 1 hour, 29 minutes ago: what are the "X Coins" under some of your posts?
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Loqi [RosemaryOrchard] #25 Reworked JSON template
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petermolnar ^^^ this was answered already
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aaronpk I saw
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jeremycherfas Yeah, it was a bit of a silly spat.
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petermolnar hm, ok flickr user tags are messy :(
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jeremycherfas Aaronpk: Meanwhile, I’m trying to get the Known people to figure out why their micropub does not talk nicely to Quill, especially for syndication targets.
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aaronpk Yes thats very strange
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cweiske I think it's some authentication issue
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cweiske looking at the code, it's the gatekeeper() method that throws us out from the config query
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cweiske question is if that's on your instance only or on all known 0.9.9 ones
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jeremycherfas That’s what I have asked one friend about.
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jeremycherfas !tell chrisaldrich Do you post from Quill to Known? And does Quill recognise your Known syndication targets?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I should update my test instance to 0.9.9
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jeremycherfas Aaronpk I tried to use ngrok to check with a clean install, but I couldn’t figure out how to do the authentication endpoints etc.
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aaronpk That should work, was the problem that you couldn't get logged in to quill?
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jeremycherfas Quill couldn’t find any of the endpoints.
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aaronpk Odd
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jeremycherfas But I tthink there must be a way of putting the ngrok proxy into the endpoints. I just haven’t had time to work that out.
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jeremycherfas I was signing in with the url that ngrok gave me.
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aaronpk And that URL was serving the Known site when you visit it in a browser?
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jeremycherfas Yes
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jeremycherfas But the endpoints do not contain the ngrok url, which seems to be what Quill is looking for. I think.
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aaronpk Maybe the Micropub plugin wasn't enabled?
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jeremycherfas It was. Indiepub was enabled.
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aaronpk Then I am out of ideas
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jeremycherfas Me too. But that wasn’t hard.
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hs0ucy sudo
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hs0ucy yanhug0s0ucy
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sknebel hs0ucy: uhm. we are not a shell?
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hs0ucy etnginng
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ben_thatmustbeme sknebel: speak for yourself
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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Zegnat what is sudo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sudo" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Zegnat hmm
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Zegnat sudo is telling someone to do a thing with authority.
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat sudo << https://www.xkcd.com/149/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.xkcd.com/149/" to the "See Also" section of /sudo
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aaronpk lok
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aaronpk lol oops
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hs0ucy usshng
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hs0ucy 1sudo nginx -t
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aaronpk Someone's keyboard is not focused at the correct window
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sknebel ping hs0ucy
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hs0ucy hs0ucy: sorry all ... terminator broadcast option was on.
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aaronpk ouch
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hs0ucy aaronpk: Yep :S
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hs0ucy Password changed ... sorry again. I don't how i did that.
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@martijnvdven @ankedesign http://Indieweb.org en W3 standaarden als https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ zijn helemaal naar v2. Parsers zi… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869580259947151360 (twitter.com/_/status/869580259947151360)
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aaronpk adactio: you remember that interview with the german youtube channel in nurnberg? do you remember what you said in the interview and do you know if there are any recordings of you saying something similar?
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adactio aaronpk: I have absolutely no idea what I said, I'm afraid.
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aaronpk darn! you said it so well
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sknebel you could ask them for the recording?
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aaronpk I did, just haven't heard back yet
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aaronpk i knew i should have turned my cameras on while they were recording ;-)
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Zegnat Next IWC: everyone wears a mic and Loqi insta-transcribes everything for us. No loss of clever things ;)
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@aaronpk I'm excited to announce that Micropub is now a @W3C Recommendation! #indieweb https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/23/2/micropub-cr https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/869584226928082944/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/869584226928082944)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Micropub is a W3C Recommendation" https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/1/w3c-micropub
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@benwerd Micropub is a lightweight, universal API for publishing to the web (created by #indieweb). Now a W3C recommendation! https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/1/w3c-micropub (twitter.com/_/status/869585331238166528)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Micropub is a lightweight, universal API for publishing to the web (created by #indieweb). Now a W3C recommendation! https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/1/w3c-micropub" by Ben Werdmüller on 2017-05-30 http://werd.io/2017/micropub-is-a-lightweight-universal-api-for-publishing-to-the
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@aaronpk I'm excited to announce that Micropub is now a @W3C Recommendation! #indieweb https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/1/w3c-micropub https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/869586042772275200/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/869586042772275200)
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aaronpk (i tweeted the wrong link before :facepalm:)
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aaronpk that's what i get for manual POSSE
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tantek aaronpk++ great [pst!
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Loqi aaronpk has 508 karma in this channel (1330 overall)
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tantek post* :)
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aaronpk oh boy i've really gotta rate limit my salmention sending
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tantek what made you come to that conclusion?
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aaronpk looking at my logs for this post
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aaronpk each time I get a "like" from bridgy I send out like 20 webmentions again
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aaronpk which is silly when bridgy sends me a few likes in rapid succession
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tantek interesting, so considering clustering sending of salmentions?
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i know laravel has a whole queueing functionality. just do that based on post. would certainly cut down on it
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aaronpk I do everything in queues already, that doesn't change how many I send out tho
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voxpelli aaronpk: so a debounce then I guess? Never ping target again until X time has passed since last ping to it + don't ping if last source/target combo ping was made after the request of the debounced ping was made?
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tantek throttling yea
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Zegnat Words like clustering, queueing, debounce, and throttling, should probably move this conversation to #dev :)
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tantek yes
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aaronpk Webmention.io does that the other direction. It will reject a webmention with the same source/target within 30 seconds
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voxpelli aaronpk: so if someone does a quick edit, then you might never fetch that?
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aaronpk Yes
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aaronpk Until they get a "like" and then send salmentions
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tantek oh that's not good. rejection vs. making it wait 30s
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aaronpk There isn't really a mechanism for making a sender wait
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aaronpk we'd have to agree on a rate limiting protocol, or at least a temporary error code, so senders know they could retry later
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voxpelli as some tools do a publish, then sends a tweet, then updates the original post with a syndication link the sending of two pings close to one another, one for the post and another for the syndication link would not be suprising
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tantek aaronpk - like 429?
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aaronpk That'd work
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voxpelli Possibly in combination with the "X-RateLimit-Limit" headers
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voxpelli I had such a limit in the beginning of my service, but later removed it and opted to save all pings to a persistent deduplicated queue that I then process with a rate limit across multiple workers
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tantek voxpelli: does anyone support those?
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voxpelli tantek: it's become the standard among API:s like Twitter, GitHub etc
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voxpelli see https://dev.twitter.com/rest/public/rate-limiting, https://developer.github.com/v3/#rate-limiting etc
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: how would that not change the number you send out, at least for the bridgy in rapid succession case
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ben_thatmustbeme not queue based on each webmention, but queue based on post (and not add when already in the queue)
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ben_thatmustbeme assuming you introduce some latency that is
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aaronpk I don't think laravels queue gives you a way to know if something is already in the queue
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh, interesting
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aaronpk also i process things immediately so jobs are rarely in the queue for more than a couple seconds
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ben_thatmustbeme ah, yeah, that would have to change
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aaronpk I don't want to sacrifice the realtimeyness of webmentions for this either
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snarfed reluctantly twitter-favorites a post of tantek's instead of indie-liking it, since he still doesn't display webmentions (and thus i suspect doesn't notice them)
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snarfed aaronpk++ congratulations!
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Loqi aaronpk has 509 karma in this channel (1331 overall)
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tantek snarfed, POSSE your likes!
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snarfed whoa he disappeared fast
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snarfed !tell tantek i do :P https://snarfed.org/responses#likes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[shaners] aaronpk++ for stewarding Micropub through the W3C spec process. Congrats!
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Loqi aaronpk has 510 karma in this channel (1332 overall)
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dougbeal what is Vouch
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Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention. Webmention with Vouch depends on understanding Webmention https://indieweb.org/Vouch
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aaronpk whoa, interesting new anti-abuse technique on github https://github.com/blog/2370-temporary-interaction-limits
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ben_thatmustbeme eww, ello went all js;dr
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gRegorLove I thought it always was?
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KartikPrabhu yeah I think it always was js.dr
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KartikPrabhu what is ello?
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Loqi Ello is microblogging silo similar to Twitter or Tumblr for posting short status update notes and pictures https://indieweb.org/Ello
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[kevinmarks] I did an ello to h-feed unmung at one point
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/blob/master/hfeedello.html
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@ttepasse @plomlompom Du könntest POSSE nach hierhin machen, damit man das mitkriegt: http://indieweb.org/posse (twitter.com/_/status/869648404502253568)
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[kevinmarks] Looks like their json feeds aren't where they were
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pfefferle good morning
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ben_thatmustbeme [kevinmarks]: please review latest updates to JF2, specifically the Profiles section
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ben_thatmustbeme going to be requesting an updated WD next week
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ben_thatmustbeme [kevinmarks]: http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#profiles
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[kevinmarks] Will do.
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[colinwalker] Evening all.
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dougbeal|imac o/ [colinwalker] pfefferle
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pfefferle hey dougbeal
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tantek if anyone wants an easy wiki edit, https://indieweb.org/site-deaths#Upcoming could use an update to move FFFFound and mlkshk to the "2017" section since they are totally down now (just tried their home pages)
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 4 hours ago: i do :P https://snarfed.org/responses#likes
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tantek snarfed: that page is amazing
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snarfed thx
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tantek responses << Example lists of responses by type: https://snarfed.org/responses
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Loqi ok, I added "Example lists of responses by type: https://snarfed.org/responses" to the "See Also" section of /responses
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Responses
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Aaron Parecki on Twitter: "I'm excited to announce that Micropub is now a @W3C Recommendation! #indieweb https://t.co/wNxzU5kJ44 https://t.co/fhJ3VSp5lB"" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-05-30 https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/869586042772275200
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aaronpk just ordered more indiewebcamp stickers cause i am almost totally out of them!
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cweiske my tt-rss micropub plugin is ready for primetime. also has bookmark + like buttons now
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miklb cweiske++
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cweiske http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2017-05-30%20tt-rss%20micropub%20primetime.png
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[cleverdevil] So cool!
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[cleverdevil] cweiske++
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Loqi cweiske has 83 karma in this channel (98 overall)
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[cleverdevil] I'm tempted to switch over to tt-rss, but unfortunately the maintainer rubs me very much the wrong way ?
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miklb cweiske how do you get that collapsed view?
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cweiske widescreen mode
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cweiske on the top right "actions" -> toggle widescreen mode
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tantek cweiske++ looks slick! does the plugin have a name or just "micropub plugin" ?
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Loqi cweiske has 84 karma in this channel (99 overall)
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cweiske tt-rss-micropub
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cweiske no special name
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tantek that photo deserves a page
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tantek what is tt-rss-micropub
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tt-rss-micropub" yet. Would you like to create it?
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cweiske tantek, IWC nürnberg demo video: http://tmp.cweiske.de/ttrss-micropub.mp4
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tantek great! even better!
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cweiske or rather, code base of that
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tantek I'll try a stub
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cweiske i've listed it on the tt-rss page already
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cweiske what is tt-rss?
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Loqi tt-rss is an open source, self-hosted feed reader https://indieweb.org/tt-rss
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tantek yup, good to list it there, but now there's more content for it so worth expanding
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tantek tt-rss-micropub is a plugin for the [[tt-rss]] feed reader that adds [[bookmark]] and [[like]] buttons to [[tt-rss]] to post those [[reactions]] to your own site using the [[Micropub]] protocol. Screenshot with buttons: http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2017-05-30%20tt-rss%20micropub%20primetime.png
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Loqi ok
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tantek cweiske feel free to upload screenshot to the indieweb wiki if you prefer to embed it from there instead of your fotostore
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cweiske I even installed it on my live tt-rss instance :)
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cweiske now that I have a micropub client that I'll use, I need a micropub server that is not commentpara.de
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aaronpk finally had a use for schedule posts and kind of sad i don't have time to code that up in time
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aaronpk thinking i want to do that as an external micropub client instead of built into my site tho
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cweiske or rather a micropub endpoint you can post to from any client
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aaronpk no, a client that will post to my micropub endpoint on a schedule
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cweiske which in turn will act as MP client when the scheduled time is nigh
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aaronpk ah, that would work too
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cweiske so quill -> scheduling endpoint -> real endpoint
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aaronpk that would save me from building another posting interface :)
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aaronpk too bad the name "Buffer" is already taken
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tantek aaronpk does this need to fit into the nomenclature?
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aaronpk i suppose that would be nice
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sknebel aaronpk: "teasmade" http://www.inoutfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Teasmade.jpg
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aaronpk what in the
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sknebel automatic tea maker
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sknebel (alarm clock that makes tea)
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sknebel early iterations are very steampunk
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tantek I feel like that would need to tie into teacup somehow
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tantek what is teacup
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Loqi Teacup is a Micropub client for posting various types of food posts to any server supporting Micropub https://indieweb.org/Teacup
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cweiske let aaronpk rename indieauth.com first please before opening another naming issue
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sknebel ;)
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aaronpk lolol
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tantek Courier could be a name for something you post to that delivers something at a certain time to someone/thing
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KartikPrabhu how about Butler ;)
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tantek too generic, also Butlers do a lot more, e.g. answer the door for you
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aaronpk that'll be my virtual assistant chat bot like benwerd's
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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Zegnat Valet, if you need less generic than butler
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aaronpk OH
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aaronpk that's what i shoudl call indieauth.com
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aaronpk the analogy has always been that OAuth is like a valet key
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KartikPrabhu that sounds good
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aaronpk can someone clone the proper HWC page to 2017-06-07 for PDX?
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Zegnat 2017-05-31 is proper, I think?
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Zegnat Cleanest one we have for the new layout, I think. Not sure if sknebel was still working on cleaning up the h-events but that could continue on 06-07
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Zegnat I have to head for bed. If it doesn’t exist when I wake I will take care of it, aaronpk
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tantek aaronpk I presume you need that for tonight :)
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aaronpk indeed
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tantek on it
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aaronpk ty!
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tantek Dreamhost?
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[eddie] valet++
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Loqi valet has 1 karma
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miklb might be a tough url to get, but I agree it's a good one
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Labella-2526 Hola
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