#indieweb 2017-05-29
2017-05-29 UTC
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@ScalaWilliam At some point, I'll use #Micropub instead of Twitter. https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients Twitter didn't send me my data archive for 2 months now. (twitter.com/_/status/868985629815615488)
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dougbeal|mb1 Good evening indieweb
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GWG How does this look? https://tiny.n9n.us/2017/05/28/fake-rsvp/
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jeremycherfas Morning, IndieWeb
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sknebel The ical file linked on /events are broken https://indieweb.org/events#Add_events_to_your_calendar - does anybody use them and can tell if that's a recent thing that might be fixable?
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jeremycherfas I don’t use them; sorry.
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@IndieWebCampDE Der nächste Homebrew Website Club in Nürnberg findet übermorgen statt. Kommt vorbei! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-31-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg (twitter.com/_/status/869116624284127232)
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@jkphl First post-#nueww Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg on Wednesday, May 31st. Swing by! https://indieweb.org/events/2017-05-31-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/869116850885492736)
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@rretsiem Yes! #Webmentions are working on my site! #indieweb Now to proper display and formatting. Proof: ... http://renem.micro.blog/2017/05/29/yes-webmentions-are.html (twitter.com/_/status/869120054285258752)
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jeremycherfas Cweiske: I don’t know. We (well, Zegnat, actually) solved the previous problem you raised. I’ll see if I can fix this one on my own.
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jeremycherfas Ah. Because there is a length limit. But no information about how to disable the length limit entirely. Let me have a play.
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jeremycherfas Collection.params.length is set by length in the feed yaml, but changing it doesn’t seem to affect things. Yet. Might be another case of localhost overriding user
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jeremycherfas Yup, that’s it. Localhost overrides user.
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jeremycherfas Want to check what happens if there is no length parameter
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Zegnat ( also, I am not a fan of the feed plugin https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-05-28#t1495997308835000 )
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Loqi [Zegnat] JSON Feed: so great because the programming languages all have serialisation and deserialisation features! So lets create a Twig template to build our JSON Feed: https://github.com/getgrav/grav-plugin-feed/blob/develop/templates/feed.json.twig
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jeremycherfas Yeah, well. Not sure I fully understand your comment, but frankly I have no great interest in implementing JSON feed just yet.
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jeremycherfas Seems with no length parameter it reverts to a limit of 500 characters that is probably somewhere in the plugins yaml.
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jeremycherfas Fixed feed. Thanks cweiske
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jeremycherfas Cweiske++
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: Are you going to rewrite the feed plugin next?
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jeremycherfas I was sort of teasing
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jeremycherfas One of the reasons I host my podcasts with a WP site is that podcast feeds are pretty darned complex.
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jeremycherfas The author of Twigfeeds for Grav has just made changes to allow the use of arbitrary tags.
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Zegnat You mean https://github.com/OleVik/grav-plugin-twigfeeds? Interesting use-case that one, you would have feeds on your site that aren’t generated by the same site?
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jeremycherfas That plugin is how I present my Known stream in the sidebar of my main site
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jeremycherfas Thanks
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jeremycherfas I do. But I also know that I am probably not using even 10% of its potential. I think it is intended much more for front-end designers and developers. For blogging, it is overkill, I think.
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jeremycherfas Also, as many here can testify, it isn’t exactly fully ready for indieweb. :)
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voxpelli The german podcast community has also used other types of link relations and such in their podcast feeds: https://podlove.org/deep-link/
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voxpelli there's btw an mf2 issue in the JSON Feed repo as well: https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/51
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voxpelli And the link relation one would be great: https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/44
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Loqi A podcast is an episodic series of audio and/or video posts that can be subscribed to and downloaded for offline listening/viewing https://indieweb.org/podcast
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@voxpelli @timpritlove @podlove_org +1, RSS/Atom works well and to express new social stuff I like the @indiewebcamp approach… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869197028257144832 (twitter.com/_/status/869197028257144832)
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[kevinmarks] Unmung will make h-feed podcasts
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[kevinmarks] I think huffduffer.com has them natively
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voxpelli [kevinmarks]: does Unmung use the u-audio mentioned at http://indieweb.org/audio ?
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Zegnat There is also a podcast client: https://screech.schmarty.net/
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voxpelli I see there's a section on u-audio in the very end of the podcast page: https://indieweb.org/podcast#How_to_podcast_with_h-feed
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Zegnat This Week in IndieWeb page with u-audio: https://martymcgui.re/tag/this-week-indieweb-podcast/
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jeremycherfas Maybve! I’ve started indiewebifying eatthispodcast.com but have not yet tried to see what is happening on episodes. Other posts, not episodes, have mf2, I know.
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[kevinmarks] Yes, unmung adds u-audio
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Loqi Screech is a simple app for posting audio content, such as podcasts, to your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/Screech
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jeremycherfas It uses Independent Publisher, which I thought was mf2.
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jeremycherfas is looking
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jeremycherfas I see h-entry on the home page http://php.microformats.io/?url=http://eatthispodcast.com
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jeremycherfas And on posts
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[kevinmarks] Hm, huffduffer.com needs a p-name on the h-feed
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jeremycherfas No. I host my own. And I definitely see h-entry using microformats.io
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jeremycherfas Where are you seeing that GWG?
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jeremycherfas I’m looking at php.microformats.io — does that change things?
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Zegnat voxpelli, re: _indieweb in JSON Feed: it comes pretty close to jf2 in that it does some abstraction (e.g. type matches /post_type and not mf2). I haven’t done a actual comparison between the two yet though
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jeremycherfas And translates the names of the types into mf2? That seems misleading.
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, it is not misleading, backwards compatible parsing is part of the mf2 spec: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#note_backward_compatibility_details
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jeremycherfas It misled me. I looked at the output and believed Imy site was generating mf2. Now, I know I’m not very expert, but this is precisely the sort of things that non-experts find bewildering.
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jeremycherfas So now I’m wondering where the best place (if any) is to fix this? Do it in the Independent Theme child, I suppose.
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jeremycherfas GWG Maybe so, but it caught me out.
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jeremycherfas GWG Which version? I’m using 1.7
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singpolyma You don't usually need to "upgrade" to mf2. if there are properties that mf2 has that don't have an equivalent microformat, you can mix-and-match. mf2 parsers do the right thing
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jeremycherfas Singpolyma: Are yopu saying I needn’t bother to change anything?
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singpolyma jeremycherfas: I use a mix of microformats and mf2 classes on my sites, have never had an issue. can verify if it's working with the various mf2 test parser sites
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singpolyma Zegnat: I cannot be sure "all" parsers get it right, only the ones I've encountered :)
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voxpelli [kevinmarks]: looks like the mf2 to jf2 conversion in Unmung is broken? http://www.unmung.com/mf2tojs2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvoxpelli.com%2F&pretty=on
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[kevinmarks] Oh, you need to feed it the mf2 json. I should make that better
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jeremycherfas GWG: OK, I’ll try that. Thanks.
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[kevinmarks] You can feed it it's own output
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GWG I'm still working on post 'kind' templates on my test site. How does this look for a bookmark? https://tiny.n9n.us/2016/03/09/nys-airports-most-delayed-in-the-nation/
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[kevinmarks] I should make it do it directly
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jeremycherfas GWG: Looks OK. If I were being picky, I would say that the two lines of text should left align.
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jeremycherfas GWG: Well, that’s fun. Now (locall testing) I have both h-entry and hentry on each post.
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jeremycherfas No idea why the hentry version is still hanging around.
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jeremycherfas Does it do any harm to have both?
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jeremycherfas And — to add to the fun — hentry is used for styling, although the actual styling is commented out. Not by me, in the original from raamdev
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jeremycherfas GWG: I’m talking about the two lines of text. One that begins “Study” and one that begins “A new study”
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ben_thatmustbeme Who is actually using JF2?
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ben_thatmustbeme I know aaronpk uses something like it
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jeremycherfas GWG: I understand that. And I am saying that, if I were being picky, the two lines of text would left align with one another.
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ben_thatmustbeme I'd be interested to talk with you at some point GWG on differences between it and jf2... And jsonfeed
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ben_thatmustbeme So when processing it, you have to check if it's an array, hash, or string?
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ben_thatmustbeme It's it aware of vocabulary? So, for example, does it assume author is always an object
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@cswordpress Woot! Go you! #indieweb https://twitter.com/rretsiem/status/869120054285258752 (twitter.com/_/status/869215343805444097)
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ben_thatmustbeme But what is author is one hash/object?
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ben_thatmustbeme Author :[
{....}]#
ben_thatmustbeme So author could be a single string, an array of strings, a single object/hash, or an array of them
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ben_thatmustbeme That was what I originally did, but the thing is, that's really annoying to work with
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ben_thatmustbeme At least in PHP, where hash vs array are difficult to determine
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ben_thatmustbeme Well, a function can be written, but it's not a native part of the language
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ben_thatmustbeme And is a bit annoying to have to constantly check if a thing is an object or a string, etc.... That's one of the advantages of jsonfeed, it defines the vocabulary, so it can say, only ever get a single value for X
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ben_thatmustbeme But conversly, that's the annoying bit that forces you to lose Fidelity
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ben_thatmustbeme Which is why I just keep going back and forth on things, doesn't seem to be a great solution
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ben_thatmustbeme Honestly it almost makes me think what feed consumers want is a profile of jf2.
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ben_thatmustbeme Yeah, that's the other interesting bit, jf2 is being used mainly internally only
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm going to start playing with having two objects in jf2, a feed object or an item object. And make the feed object more like jsonfeed
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ben_thatmustbeme Basically only set minimum requirements, so consumers know certain fields will be there and in a certain format, but other things may be there
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ben_thatmustbeme None of the _prefix crap needed as it's using whatever mf2 parsers find
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ben_thatmustbeme Which would mean the mf2 to jf2 conversion can be able service. Just look at how I do as2 on my site now, like that
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ben_thatmustbeme Definitely, that's what I have now for mf2 to jf2
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ben_thatmustbeme What is socialstreams?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "socialstreams" yet. Would you like to create it?
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ben_thatmustbeme What is socialstream?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "socialstream" yet. Would you like to create it?
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ben_thatmustbeme Huh, thought i added on
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ben_thatmustbeme stream.thatmustbe.us
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ben_thatmustbeme Wow, there is so little in jsonfeed that is actually required
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ben_thatmustbeme So I think actually making a profile of jf2 that mirrors jsonfeed is actually pretty simple
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ben_thatmustbeme It's literally just adding requirements on certain fields being present and requirements that certain fields be songs and not arrays
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@davidmead #indieweb question…Anything out there to extract liked tweets and import to WordPress/blog? An ‘OwnYourGram’ style… http://djm.click/blog/b/4di (twitter.com/_/status/869245788551077889)
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[colinwalker] Evening all
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KartikPrabhu miklb: there certainly should be. The Twitter archive is in some XML form which could be converted to HTML+mf2
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KartikPrabhu I planned on doing this for my archive but never got to it
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KartikPrabhu GWG: what's the use-case?
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KartikPrabhu you could start with "13min 45sec long"
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KartikPrabhu or "13:45 long"
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KartikPrabhu but that could be mistaken for 13hours 45 min
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KartikPrabhu miklb: oh! I never scrutinsed it very closely
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KartikPrabhu I thought the twitter archive gave you everything, but maybe it only gives your own posts
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KartikPrabhu s/posts/tweets
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KartikPrabhu miklb: a google search reveals that the archive only has tweets/retweets no favs
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KartikPrabhu miklb: you might have to muck around with the every-changing Twitter API or try /granary
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KartikPrabhu miklb: that is annoying!
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KartikPrabhu what is Twitter?
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Loqi Twitter (also known as Twitter.com) is a popular content hosting silo most well known for 140 character text notes https://indieweb.org/Twitter
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KartikPrabhu miklb: documented on https://indieweb.org/Twitter#Challenges
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KartikPrabhu miklb: yeah the JSON thing should be translatable, but needs work
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KartikPrabhu which is why I never got around to it; figured it might take longer than an hour of coding
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KartikPrabhu miklb: that is a good guideline
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GWG miklb: This is the test of the human readable duration. https://tiny.n9n.us/2015/02/21/the-boxer/
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "good examples of silos that present music" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: that example looks pretty good
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Loqi Last.fm is a silo for tracking music listening (scrobbling) and providing music recommendations https://indieweb.org/last.fm
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KartikPrabhu GWG: maybe use "<song name> from <album name> by <band name>" etc...
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KartikPrabhu i have always found prepositions to be my friends ;)
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KartikPrabhu what is text-first-design?
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Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indieweb.org/text_first_design
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miklb GWG great. Now you have me thinking about incorporating something like this https://developer.musicgraph.com/api-docs/v2/artists
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GWG miklb: This is the updated RSVP. https://tiny.n9n.us/2017/05/28/fake-rsvp/
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes, which is why it is better to do text-first and get then enhance from there
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gRegorLove GWG: Maybe personal preference, but I'd recommend the "Posted on... by..." meta be below the content.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: for testing text-first I have found this bookmarklet useful http://khan.github.io/tota11y/#Installation
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KartikPrabhu it has a screen-reader "wand" that shows you a text representation of the HTML
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gRegorLove For duration, I used a shortened version like "1h 7m 59s"
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@CocoaDevBlogs Manton Reece : IndieWeb Summit http://www.manton.org/2017/05/indieweb-summit.html (twitter.com/_/status/869281064644202496)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb Summit | Manton Reece" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-05-29 http://www.manton.org/2017/05/indieweb-summit.html
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dougbeal|mb1 KartikPrabhu: thats an awesome tool... imagine a mf2 magic wand ;)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "u- prefix" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Loqi Mastodon is an open source implementation of a federated social network with several running instances that is compatible with GNU social https://indieweb.org/Mastodon
