#indieweb 2017-06-06

2017-06-06 UTC
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skippy that's a rather bold statement re: social media.
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tantek in which aaronpk conceptually predicted micro.blog, nearly 5 years ago: http://indieweb.org/irc/2012-07-29/line/1343592573000
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Loqi [aaronpk] I would love to see app.net take all the existing protocols and work and build a paid competitive offering with them. That I could support.
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tantek in which aaronpk predicts the standardization roadmap for IndieWeb, again, nearly 5 years ago: http://indieweb.org/irc/2012-07-29/line/1343592356000
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Loqi [aaronpk] I feel like between http web pages, a bit of microformats, RSS, Pingbacks and PuSH we're most of the way there
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on @Mentions by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-06 http://boffosocko.com/mentions/#comment-34867
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sknebel what is personas?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "personas" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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tantek is watching IWC DUS intros, starting with adactio!
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tantek and aaronpk
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tantek nice demo by adactio of publishing a photo, POSSEing to Twitter, and getting backfeed back on his own site via Bridgy
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tantek "you get the best of both worlds, posting on your own site and owning your data, and not missing out on conversations elsewhere"
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tantek that's a really good summary
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tantek adactio++
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Loqi adactio has 34 karma in this channel (37 overall)
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snarfed adactio++
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Loqi adactio has 35 karma in this channel (38 overall)
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tantek aaronpk, wow the IWC DUS intros are super cool. lots of very different personal sites!
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tantek like vlad's trip posts with tz switching!
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tantek the letsencrypt portability thing is an interesting challenging
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pfefferle good morning
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petermolnar morning
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Loqi rise and shine!
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petermolnar apparently the trend in photo compression is ~ <80% progressive JPEG: https://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2017/06/making-photos-smaller.html
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petermolnar I'm not convinced, < 84% for my eyes is like 128kbit mp3 for my ears...
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petermolnar bit the dynamic quality is an interesting approach
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Zegnat Hmm, I think I end up doing 80% a lot
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petermolnar trying to find the relevant instagram and flickr articles from a while ago
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petermolnar https://engineering.instagram.com/bringing-wide-color-to-instagram-5a5481802d7d - that was their latest big change
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[kevinmarks] Shame jpeg2000 was so patent encumbered as it really helps
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petermolnar looking at flickr stuff: http://code.flickr.net/2015/06/25/real-time-resizing-of-flickr-images-using-gpus/
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petermolnar huh, what's this? https://yahooeng.tumblr.com/post/157200523046/introducing-tripod-flickrs-backend-refactored
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petermolnar (sidenote "senior pricipal engineer", yeah, right, because we need even fancier titles...)
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Zegnat (adactio should give us a session on job titles)
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petermolnar gotcha: https://code.flickr.net/2015/09/25/perceptual-image-compression-at-flickr/
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deathrow1|absnt what is securelogin.pw
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "securelogin.pw" yet. Would you like to create it?
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myfreeweb petermolnar: i could never tell the difference between 128kbps mp3 and 320 :D but about photos — lowering the quality is better than lowering the resolution. my media endpoint uses quality instead of resizing https://github.com/myfreeweb/sweetroll/blob/25983a1261f1d309a08a020d5295ea1da5933a7c/sweetroll-mu/lib/proc.js#L63-L80
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petermolnar unless you aim for native 4k resolution, I'm going to disagree
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petermolnar fhd resolution is usually more, than enough to display with, also, interpolation is pretty usable to scale up from that
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petermolnar but 40 for jpeg quality is terrible imo
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tantek good morning #indieweb!
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sknebel good morning!
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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[miklb] neat, found a Slack plugin for WP that notifies of new comments
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[eddie] That’s awesome miklb
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[miklb] I may try at some point and create my own solution for my hubot, but in meantime, it’s pretty cool to see webmentions/comments in my personal slack channel
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petermolnar you could use rather simple webhooks for telegram for that as well
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[terminalpixel] Yeah I have a DIY slack notification service for my site. Super easy to build ?
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snarfed1 what is Pushover
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Loqi Pushover makes it easy to get real-time notifications on Android, iOS, and desktop systems https://indieweb.org/Pushover
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snarfed1 what is Pushbullet
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Loqi Pushbullet is a free service that sends rich notifications to your Android or iOS device, as well as various web browsers https://indieweb.org/Pushbullet
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@gobman #Indieweb plugin https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress ;)" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-06 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/gobman-indieweb-plugin-pluginsindiewebgetting_started_on_wordpress
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Loqi [superfeedr] "A great interactive CMS/platform for building your #domains17: https://withknown.com @withknown #opensource #indieweb #edtech" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-06 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/a-great-interactive-cmsplatform-for-building-your-domains17-withknown-opensource
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@ChrisAldrich A great interactive CMS/platform for building your #domains17: https://withknown.com @withknown #opensource #indieweb #edtech (twitter.com/_/status/872148645327630339)
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[miklb] at some point, it just starts to feel like spam
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Some #indieweb resources for pedagogy and education https://indieweb.org/Indieweb_for_Education #Domains17" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-06 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/some-indieweb-resources-for-pedagogy-and-education-indieweb_for_education-domains17
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tantek miklb what does?
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[miklb] All of those superfeeder/tweets/posts
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aaronpk the comment notifications are annoying, i wonder if they show up differently in the superfeedr ping
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[miklb] for me, it goes beyond annoying being heralded in channel. Maybe I’m just being grumpy, but it feels like marketing spam to me.
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tantek the comment notifications are pretty useless without actually *showing* the comment, and there's definitely no need to show "like" "repost" "bookmark" type responses from superfeedr
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tantek I kinda agree with miklb's annoyance :)
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aaronpk it's unfortunately pretty difficult to actually track those down, because there isn't an actual RSS feed i can check, i have to wait for superfeedr to deliver a fat ping
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[miklb] isn’t blaming aaronpk
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tantek comes up with an excuse to add more emojis to /2017 :D
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tantek aaronpk: here's a start if you want to add anything choice :) https://indieweb.org/2017#Attractions_and_other_activities
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tantek aaronpk in particular if you can recommend your favorite pizza spot (or spots), I'm in for that.
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tantek also what was that bar that has the foursquare display on the screens?
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aaronpk Bailey's!
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tantek (where you can order burritos from the place next door)
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tantek that needs to go on https://indieweb.org/2017#Food_and_drink
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[chrisaldrich] Hello indiewebbers
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: jeremycherfas left you a message 5 days, 8 hours ago: No matter; I think we’re getting a little closer to sorting things out. Seems like the problem might be my server settings.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm curious how one would best classify the delicious buyout; it isn't really technically a /site-death, but since it's being mothballed and discontinued for future use, it amounts to a site-death
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tantek not quite mothballed - the URLs will still work
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tantek making it read only is not a bad path forward
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tantek not much more we can expect from a silo
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tantek (well, data export, redirection perhaps)
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[miklb] more like /site-life-support
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Zegnat The definitive future of Delicious seems to still be pending? https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/871706003821166592
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@Pinboard @kevinmarks the ultimate fate of @Delicious depends in large part on what @joshu and other old-timers want. Read-only archive is a stopgap (twitter.com/_/status/871706003821166592)
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[chrisaldrich] I'm glad that they've promised data export. And leaving it up so URLs still resolve is an excellent way to go for shutting it down.
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[chrisaldrich] I think it should be on the site-deaths page, but not annotated as a full death since it will still exist in a "frozen" form.
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[kevinmarks] I wonder if we could talk Maciej into adding mf2 to the static pages
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[chrisaldrich] @pinboard's recent tweets indicate that they're at least reading through the code at present.
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[kevinmarks] Preserving the urls is a good thing.
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[chrisaldrich] do we have a wiki page with recommendations for mothballing large social sites like these responsibly? What recommendations would we suggest?
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snarfed [chrisaldrich]: see https://archive.org/ and http://archiveteam.org/
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snarfed tldr: they're the pros, ideally just help and support them
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tantek kevinmarks definitely. h-entry with u-bookmark-of u-category and h-card
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[kevinmarks] I woender
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[chrisaldrich] Oh, I'm not suggesting that we archive or work on those problems, just a general list of what an individual user might do if closing their own site (or what their family might do upon their death)
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tantek kevinmarks, maybe do a gist with the modifications to the markup
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[kevinmarks] I wonder what email I signed up for del.icio.us with
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tantek chrisaldrich the silo use-case is potentially very different from the indieweb personal site use-cases there
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[chrisaldrich] The largest case scenario is a list of recommendations of what we'd like to see large silos do in the meanwhile until users own all their own data
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tantek I think there have been sessions about it in previous indiewebcamps
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snarfed http://indieweb.org/longevity
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schmarty [chrisaldrich]: as someone who made a small mobile photo sharing silo that is now basically dead, i would be interested in a "so you're shutting down a silo" page. :}
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[chrisaldrich] snarfed: thanks
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snarfed silo features: https://www.facebook.com/help/1568013990080948 , https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546
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[chrisaldrich] schmarty: or even related recommendations for folks like manton who downloaded all the data from ADN before it shut down and aren't sure what to do with it. Lists of contacts like archive.org
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[chrisaldrich] schmarty suggestions for what to call such a page?
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[chrisaldrich] Or just tack it on to the bottom of /longevity?
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snarfed add to http://indieweb.org/export ?
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aaronpk what is friendly?
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Loqi IndieWeb friendly refers to online services interoperating well with the indieweb by supporting open indieweb formats, protocols, as well as enabling users to transition to their own indieweb sites https://indieweb.org/friendly
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aaronpk maybea section there?
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gRegorLove o/ [chrisaldrich] I don't know if you saw, but there was some discussion yesterday about your /read posts, the permalink redirects to the URL of what you read, e.g. gruber's Facebook post.
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schmarty there's good stuff on all of those pages. keeping permalinks alive, allowing export of full archives both feel like top priorities.
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove: thanks, I need to go back and catch up on the past week or so. I've been debating on a final decision /read posts.
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[chrisaldrich] I like to have an archive version of the full post, but don't want to do them as reposts, which is what they feel like in some sense.
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[chrisaldrich] Most of those I prefer to keep visible on my back end, but redirect to the original.
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[chrisaldrich] They show up as shortened pieces from within my "blog" view, but when clicking on "read more" they direct to the original to give proper "credit".
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gRegorLove It caused this really confusing superfeedr ping: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-06-05#t1496686737965000
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Loqi [Loqi] [superfeedr] "Comment on ? Fuck Facebook | Daring Fireball by Amanda J. Rush" by Amanda J. Rush on 2017-06-05 http://boffosocko.com/2017/06/02/fuck-facebook-daring-fireball/#comment-34864
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[chrisaldrich] In some sense I've been buiding a traditional /read post, but have a richer alternate with a lot more metadata about what I read.
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[chrisaldrich] Yes, that's one of the issues I still have to figure out. Replies to POSSE'd copies are an issue, but they're only really an issue here in IRC as far as I can tell presently.
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[chrisaldrich] Or to people who subscribe to my comments, which I presently suspect is zero.
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[chrisaldrich] Perhaps I can figure out a way to redirect to her original in those cases as it was a "like" from Twitter: https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/871049736010186753
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@ChrisAldrich "Content that isn’t indexable by search engines is not part of the open web." —John Gruber #indieweb http://boffosocko.com/2017/06/02/fuck-facebook-daring-fireball/ (twitter.com/_/status/871049736010186753)
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GWG Chrisaldrich, can you post thoughts on read as a Post Kinds issue as well?
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: happy to as shortly. I'm still puzzling a few pieces out to get them to function the way I want them to, but still have some "backwards" compatibility for the way the "old" web works.
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GWG I am still working on kind templates. Currently stuck on media kind enhancements.
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: it was some of this that finally made me track down the issue with the "retrieve" button in post kinds the other day.
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[chrisaldrich] and I still need to circle back on it to make it work properly...
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[chrisaldrich] GWG: are you working on separate, individual templates or the "master" template?
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gRegorLove Uh oh, fatal error on werd.io
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GWG Chrisaldrich, separate
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[chrisaldrich] I had started some work on a few individual ones a month ago but was sidetracked\
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[chrisaldrich] I think it was miklb who was working on his theme a while back that prompted me to look into it.
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GWG My templates are going to be very generalized
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[chrisaldrich] I suspected that they'd be much like the original "master" template, but exist as simple stand-alone examples for those who wanted to modify them. (I'm certainly a fan of this idea.)
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tantek wow that's quite the indieweb post without saying it!
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tantek (gruber's post)
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tantek Also:
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tantek "The Internet Archive is our only good defense against broken links. " boom. hence js;dr
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GWG Chrisaldrich, much simpler actually.
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tantek the tweet that Gruber referenced in his post about the story only on FB that went viral elsewhere: https://twitter.com/MrKenShabby/status/867036448037511169
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@MrKenShabby This truly wonderful Roger story from @marchaynes is soothing my aching soul. ? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAhU9RXXsAMza2F.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/867036448037511169)
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tantek hmm it has two photos
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tantek aaronpk: any chance of upgrading Loqi to link to all the images in a tweet not just the first one?
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aaronpk a chance
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kiai Hey Tantek
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kiai Is there no meetup tomorrow in SF?
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tantek hello kiai!
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kiai If it's a location problem, I might be able to offer a place.
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tantek kiai: tomorrow is an off-cycle week for HWC, so no meetup in SF planned. next one is 2017-06-14 (next week)
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kiai oh. right.
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kiai thanks :)
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tantek np :)
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kiai I will be in NYC that day. Maybe start one there? :)
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tantek I should note that in the page for tomorrow
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tantek kiai: I know that GWG wants to do HWC in NYC!
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tantek and there are others too, like emmahodge
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Loqi yea!
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kiai ok. I will think about locations.
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tantek I *think* Brooklyn is more accessible to the NYC regulars but am not certain
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tantek GWG would know :)
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kiai heh. I don't like to leave Brooklyn, so good for me.
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tantek hah that's like the Mission here in SF ;)
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@ChrisAldrich @kmlukens @withknown is a great tool that isn't WordPress. You could also take a look at https://indieweb.org/projects (twitter.com/_/status/872190013257256960)
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GWG Brooklyn is not my favorite place, but I would go
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kiai @GWG where would you prefer?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWebSummit RSVP – Take Two" by Andy on 2017-06-06 http://andysylvester.com/2017/06/06/indiewebsummit-rsvp-take-two/
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GWG I live in Queens
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Comment on I am sending an RSVP to the IndieWeb Summit by Andy" by Andy on 2017-06-06 http://andysylvester.com/2017/06/04/i-am-sending-an-rsvp-to-the-indieweb-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-23218
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GWG But it depends. It is hard to get to anywhere in rush hour and I work in Nassau
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tantek ^^^ that looks like a post showing up as its own comment. GWG, Wordpress plugin bug?
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GWG Not sure, on my cell so I can't view source
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GWG I hope it isn't the fragment URL support I added
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GWG Comments are fragments.
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gRegorLove "Commnt on..." is from the WP comment XML feed: view-source:http://andysylvester.com/comments/feed/
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GWG I really want to work on the comment rss feed in a future PR
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gRegorLove Yeah, the <item> element in the feed should have an <author>. Is there a WP trac ticket for it?
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gRegorLove No rsvp mf property on http://andysylvester.com/2017/06/04/i-am-sending-an-rsvp-to-the-indieweb-summit/comment-page-1/. Any WP people want to reach out and help?
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Loqi [Andy] I am sending an RSVP to the IndieWeb Summit http://2.gravatar.com/avatar/5adda600f767a136865087051b2431bd?s=100&d=mm&r=g
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ScottJenson Hello?
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Loqi ScottJenson: petermolnar left you a message on 2016-07-11 at 2:11pm UTC: "the Physical Web is always on the internet" - is it safe to assue that those devices never lose connectivity? Why if they do? I'm genuinely interested in the idea, but I would never trust the internet to be always available, especially not in Europe.
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ScottJenson Just trying to get my RSVP working
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tantek whoa welcome back ScottJenson !
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ScottJenson hey!
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ScottJenson I'm coming to IndieWeb summit next week
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tantek great! or rather in two weeks :)
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ScottJenson yes...
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aaronpk </panic>
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ScottJenson but a little UX feedback, indieweb.org/RSVP isn't really that helpful
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ScottJenson The link to the Known plugin is a stub, and the wordpress bookmark link doesn't really help
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tantek ScottJenson, what CMS are you using on your site?
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ScottJenson jenson.org is wordpress but I have a temp withknown account as well (if that's easier)
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tantek you're the second person today who is having trouble RSVPing from WordPress
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tantek I'm not sure of the state of the WordPress "Post Kinds" plugin (I think that's the one that handles it)
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tantek but yes, everything WordPress related (from initial setup to using day to day) needs a major UX overhaul
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ScottJenson The link implies there is a bookmarklet but when I land there, it's a collection of general WP plugins so it's not clear which one to pick
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ScottJenson indieweb.org/RSVP is in need of a little bit of user testing ;-)
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ScottJenson which is why I'm hear, would like to solve/fix the docs
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ScottJenson here
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tantek ScottJenson, not at all, it's gotten plenty of user testing, it needs contributions
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ScottJenson Let me rephrase, *my* user test failed...
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tantek fundamentally, that problem hasn't changed since the IndieWebCamp SF you came to in 2014
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ScottJenson ok, if it's clear what I need to do for WP, I'll do/test it and then update the wiki
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tantek in looking at https://indieweb.org/WordPress#Bookmarklets_for_Desktop I have no idea which to use to RSVP either!
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tantek I thought that section used to be more clear. hmm
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ScottJenson ok, I'm not alone.... <whew>
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tantek and I'm the one that added the link to that section *from* /RSVP
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tantek previously, /RSVP only had markup instructions. nothing about "if you already have a CMS"
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tantek GWG, you still around? How did you RSVP on your WordPress blog? https://david.shanske.com/2017/05/20/indieweb-summit-2017/
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Loqi [David Shanske] Like last year, I am attending the IndieWeb Summit in Portland Oregon.
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[miklb] there are some issues with the post kinds template for RSVP, not sure the fix has made it upstream into the plugin yet.
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[miklb] I have zero experience with RSVP so not much help. Something about nesting of mf2 properties.
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tantek ScottJenson, looks like the first Bookmakrlet is actually a *plugin* which claims to support RSVP: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this
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Loqi [pfefferle] wordpress-indieweb-press-this: some IndieWeb magic for WordPress' "press this" bookmarklet
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tantek Can you try installing that plugin and see if it makes it clear / obvious how to RSVP?
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ScottJenson I noticed that but it doesn't appear to be a 'proper' plugin (I can't install from within WP)
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ScottJenson Possible of course, just tedious to manually install
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ScottJenson I was hoping this RSVP thing would be as simple as a rel=me link
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ScottJenson I've already go my domain setup to log into indieweb.org
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tantek it is as simple as that - inside a post
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tantek also, saying "as simple as a rel=me link" implies a little bit of markup is simpler from your perspective than the "install something and figure out a new UI" typical user experience
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ScottJenson agreed
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ScottJenson Just curious why "Sign in with your website" doesn't work
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ScottJenson I guess you're encouraging a post vs sign in?
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tantek you're unable to sign-in?
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ScottJenson No, I can sign in fine
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tantek we used to do that, sign-in and add yourself to the wiki, but that was too high of a barrier
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ScottJenson I just don't want to faff about with some new RSVP thing when I have my URL ready to validate me
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ScottJenson well, for me, this RSVP thing is a barrier
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tantek so instead we made it both *easier* if you don't have a website yet (i.e. normal "buy a ticket" flow on 2017.indieweb.org), AND we provided the "indie RSVP" method for those who had gotten that working on their sites
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snarfed s/faff about/own your data/ :P
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ScottJenson Hey Ryan!
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tantek snarfed, ScottJenson appears to be having a problem installing the WordPress plugin you recommended for RSVP
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tantek this one: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this
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Loqi [pfefferle] wordpress-indieweb-press-this: some IndieWeb magic for WordPress' "press this" bookmarklet
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snarfed hi! i saw. i did write the bookmarklets, but i don't actually use the plugin
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snarfed (i use the bookmarklets directly)
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snarfed sounds like it's not in the wordpress plugin directory
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tantek snarfed, none of that is clear as an option from that page
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tantek that is, your entry is the first one on this list: https://indieweb.org/WordPress#Bookmarklets_for_Desktop
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tantek and it's not clear from that how to install your bookmarklet
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tantek (or even that your bookmarklet supports RSVP!)
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snarfed https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this#readme definitely says RSVP a couple times
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Loqi [pfefferle] wordpress-indieweb-press-this: some IndieWeb magic for WordPress' "press this" bookmarklet
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tantek snarfed, sure if you go there, but then that whole README makes it seem like you have to install the plugin
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tantek and you just said you don't
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tantek so that's confusing
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snarfed no, i said *i* don't. using the plugin is definitely strongly recommended. i wouldn't personally support people using it without.
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snarfed key point is probably that it's not in the wordpress plugin directory. we should definitely add it
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aaronpk wordpress is so confusing sometimes ?
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snarfed !tell pfefferle lots of interest today in IRC in installing https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this from the wordpress directory. want to add it there?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [pfefferle] wordpress-indieweb-press-this: some IndieWeb magic for WordPress' "press this" bookmarklet
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tantek how does one install a WP plugin from a github repo like that then?
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snarfed scp/ftp the files directly
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[miklb] like an animal
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snarfed yes quite
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snarfed not recommended for normal users. it's on us to get it into the wp plugin directory.
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tantek Is a typical WP user expected to know how to scp/ftp the files directly?
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aaronpk used to be that was the only way to install plugins :P
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snarfed true
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[miklb] there is a plugin to install plugins from GitHub ?
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aaronpk omfg
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snarfed ahahaha
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Loqi nice
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snarfed both awful and brilliant
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KartikPrabhu pluginception
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tantek "yo dawg"
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aaronpk pretty clever
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aaronpk like an alternate app store
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[miklb] https://github.com/afragen/github-updater
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Loqi [afragen] github-updater: This WP plugin will update GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab hosted plugins and themes
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snarfed more importantly, looking forward to seeing you, ScottJenson!
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ScottJenson <eating popcorn>
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snarfed in the short term, you can definitely copy/paste this minimal RSVP markup directly into a wordpress post, and change the text and URL to point to http://2017.indieweb.org/ , and that should work: http://indieweb.org/rsvp#Publish_an_RSVP
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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GWG miklb, not yet. In dev
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tantek snarfed, what is the best way for a WordPress user to post an RSVP?
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[miklb] GWG what is in dev?
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GWG The new RSVP template
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GWG Sorry, was in class. Over now
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[miklb] what is a WordPress user?
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ScottJenson From snarfed's link: "1. Create a reply post and use the h-entry p-rsvp property"
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress user" yet. Would you like to create it?
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snarfed tantek: probably better aimed at people who actively work on wordpress (GWG pfefferle et al). afaik the two main current options are post kinds and that bookmarklet plugin.
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tantek WordPress user is WordPress/Examples
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Loqi ok
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ScottJenson I was happy to use withknown as well (but the link to the plugin is a stub
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[miklb] can’t you just markup a post with manual mf2?
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snarfed [miklb]: yes, i suggested that a few min ago :P
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tantek snarfed, hence why I asked you what the *best* way was
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ScottJenson This feels, in a nutshell, like a placeholder for many indieweb issues. I just wanted my picture to show up, 5 minutes later in FTP'ing stuff...
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ScottJenson and on the tech support page ;-)
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snarfed right. i don't really pay attention to the whole set of wordpress options, so i don't have a good opinion on "best."
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snarfed ScottJenson: yup
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ScottJenson Not trying to be snarky, just wondering if the solution (RSVP) is the right tool given the state of the tech atm
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tantek ScottJenson I think you described the state of WordPress more than IndieWeb, which itself is a problem
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ScottJenson fair
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[cleverdevil] FWIW, if you have a new-ish Known installation, I am pretty sure you don't even need a plugin.
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tantek ScottJenson there are two solutions, use the "normal person" ticket flow on https://2017.indieweb.org/
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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ScottJenson but as I stated previous, it's the same for WithKnown
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tantek OR do the work to indie RSVP from your website
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tantek so if you choose the latter, you are committing to figuring out what the best way to do that is for you
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tantek either with an existing CMS, or with your own handrolled markup
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GWG Maybe I should push the template fix before I finish other things
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tantek ok let's lookinto the withknown option since the WordPress option looks like a dead-end in terms of usability
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GWG I built it into Indieweb Post Kinds
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aaronpk can someone test with a new Known install?
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tantek GWG, right now the WordPress option is no easier than someone just hand-editing their own HTML. That's the bar you have to beat
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GWG tantek, can we discuss that in person?
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tantek yes of course
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aaronpk there's the 0.99 Known release which should have a bunch of hte new stuff
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tantek and ScottJenson here is himself a UX expert who is more than willing to provide UX feedback and advice!
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tantek and he's going to be at IWS also!
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tantek (assuming he can RSVP - which is this whole convo)
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ScottJenson My closet goal is to get more people into IndieWeb so I tend to push these issues a bit harder than most....
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tantek keep pushing :)
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[cleverdevil] Yes, the RSVP stuff is built directly into 0.99 on Known.
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tantek ok two requests then
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tantek makes some subheads so he can make specific links
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ScottJenson Found it!
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GWG I really need some usability help.
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tantek cleverdevil, could you update https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_Known with the *shortest*, *most clear* instructions for how to RSVP using Known?
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tantek GWG, could you update https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_WordPress with the *shortest*, *most clear* instructions for how to RSVP using WordPress (whether that's with a plugin, or bookmarklet, or both, whatever is the *simplest* way to do so for a typical WordPress user)
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ScottJenson sorry total noob question: now that I have my event on Known, how do I post a WebMention?
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tantek posting an RSVP on Known should automatically send a webmention
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tantek are you sure you created an RSVP post?
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ScottJenson Tantek, I'm happy to help with the wiki if you'd like
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ScottJenson but there was no URL in the event....
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tantek ScottJenson - definitely want your help, but without knowing what "right answer" to start with for each of those CMS's, we have nothing to iterate on
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[cleverdevil] On it, tantek
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GWG tantek, will do. May push the fix first without the other things that I wanted to add
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tantek GWG, edit the page first, with the current way it is done
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tantek THEN push whatever plugin updates you have, and AFTER, edit the page with those updates
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tantek GWG, right now the "how to RSVP with wordpress" instructions are totally unusable, so that needs fixing first just to make it *possible*
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tantek and it is *possible* because you've RSVPd yoursefl
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tantek ScottJenson, what do you mean by "there was no URL in the event...."
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ScottJenson OK, fwiw, I just posted my event and put http://2017.indieweb.org/ into the description AND summary field (to be safe)
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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ScottJenson ... as there was no clear "URL Field"
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tantek I don't even understand what those fields are. I only know about a post name and content
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tantek ScottJenson you sure you're posting an RSVP?
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GWG Will be home soon
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ScottJenson I'm posting and event
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tantek it sounds like you are posting your own event maybe
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ScottJenson an event
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tantek posting your own event doesn't work to RSVP on Facebook, why would it work on the indie web? ;)
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tantek curious how you went down that path
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ScottJenson I was just following the advice in the IW site (install the event plugin) did I misread it?
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ScottJenson <smacks head>
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tantek where did it say to "install the event plugin" ?!?
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ScottJenson Known: Make sure the Events plugin is enabled
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ScottJenson But this it says "Click RSVP"
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ScottJenson which I blew off... sorry
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[cleverdevil] I am editing to increase clarity now.
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[cleverdevil] It was pretty terse.
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tantek makes a numbered list until cleverevil expands :)
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ScottJenson This is why I'm a UX person, I tend to not follow instructions very well so represent your worst nightmare very well
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tantek ScottJenson hah, you're not even close to my (or our) worst UX nightmare
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tantek ScottJenson, minor update to https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_Known (until cleverdevil updates it for 0.99)
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ScottJenson just to confirm, my RSVP should point to 2017.indieweb.org ?
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@kevinmarks @thomasforth How about some microformats? https://indiewebify.me will walk you through it (twitter.com/_/status/872228408935276544)
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tantek now checks 2017.indieweb.org to see what's not unambiguous about that
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kiai Would anyone be interested in a job in nonprofit next year developing a social media site to enable individual-to-individual donations? https://igg.me/at/3cItwtmAjNw
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tantek ScottJenson, do you have suggestions for improving this microcopy: "If you post an RSVP from your site to the event page 2017.indieweb.org, you can register for this free "Indie RSVP" ticket."
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tantek That's quoted from the "Indie RSVP" section of the "Register" section near the top of https://2017.indieweb.org/
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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ScottJenson looking
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[cleverdevil] Should be a little clearer, now.
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ScottJenson That's clear on the reason why it's a good idea
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ScottJenson But doesn't tackle now. A link might help but it's already a busy form so I'm cautious to jam too much in there
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ScottJenson *tackle HOW
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[cleverdevil] Meaning, I just edited the wiki ?
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tantek cleverdevil++ for https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_RSVP_with_Known
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Loqi cleverdevil has 26 karma in this channel (35 overall)
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ScottJenson <cleverdevil> MUCH clearer thank you!
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tantek aaronpk, what do you think of changing "If you post an RSVP from your site" on 2017.indieweb.org to "If you post an RSVP (See: How to RSVP) from your site" and then link "How to RSVP" to https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_publish ?
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aaronpk sure!
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ScottJenson Now (this likely isn't critical) but I first got put into the "Tickets" section. Now that I've posted my RSVP, nothing has changed. No biggie just FYI
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aaronpk as long as those instructions are clear :P
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tantek that way there is a clearer user flow from the notion of "post an RSVP" to the *action* of how to do so
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aaronpk PRs accepted: https://github.com/indieweb/2017.indieweb.org
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Loqi [indieweb] 2017.indieweb.org
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aaronpk (tho github appears to be down right now)
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tantek aaronpk - those instructions are what all the above discussion is about!
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aaronpk Loqi: is github down?
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tantek and the instructions for Known are now clear
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tantek as well is the instructions for marking up your own RSVP
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tantek it's WordPress that's currently unclear
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tantek regardless, a pointer to *some* instructions is better than *no instructions* that just leave people guessing and hunting
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aaronpk Loqi: is github down?
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Loqi Major service outage. https://status.github.com/
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aaronpk thanks
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KartikPrabhu damn Loqi is so smart
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tantek any luck ScottJenson ?
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tantek what's the permalink of your RSVP?
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ScottJenson sec
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ScottJenson https://scott.withknown.com/2017/untitled
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Loqi [Scott Jenson] Yes:
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ScottJenson https://scott.withknown.com/2017/untitled
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Loqi [Scott Jenson] Yes:
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ScottJenson interesting
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tantek the post markup looks fine view-source:http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://scott.withknown.com/2017/untitled
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tantek aaronpk, ScottJenson's RSVP markup looks fine to me and parses properly too
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tantek did 2017.indieweb.org receive a webmention for it?
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tantek i.e. why isn't his indie RSVP showing up?
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[miklb] GWG when you get settled and want to push the mf2 fix for RSVP, I’ll be happy to help document w/screenshots/gif if it would help
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ScottJenson Thanks for the help, I have to go. See you folks in 11 days!
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tantek ScottJenson will be great to see you!
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tantek and wait
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tantek 18 days
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tantek there it is again with the off by one week bug
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tantek Scott Jenson IWS is June 24-25. Today is June 6. 24-6 = 18 days.
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tantek ScottJenson:
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aaronpk try sending a webmention manually and you'll get a detailed response from 2017.indieweb.org
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aaronpk https://2017.indieweb.org/webmention
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tantek did you already try and get an error?
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tantek ok I'll bite
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aaronpk i did not
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tantek "The source document does not have a link to the target URL"
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aaronpk http https mixup?
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tantek nope
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tantek used https in all the fields
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aaronpk hmm
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tantek and just view sourced on https://scott.withknown.com/2017/untitled again and the link is there
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Loqi [Scott Jenson] Yes:
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aaronpk that's odd
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tantek so https://2017.indieweb.org/webmention is failing to parse it from https://scott.withknown.com/2017/untitled
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aaronpk okay i will have to look into that but i can't right now
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tantek pretty bad if no Known RSVPs are making it in. no problem, hopefully later tonight.
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aaronpk hmm xray sees it fine too https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscott.withknown.com%2F2017%2Funtitled which is what 2017.indieweb.org uses
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aaronpk except... https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscott.withknown.com%2F2017%2Funtitled&target=https://2017.indieweb.org/
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aaronpk that is concerning