#indieweb 2017-06-08

2017-06-08 UTC
strugee, eli_oat, [miklb], nitot, marjolein, mmmdik, gRegorLove and eli_oat[m] joined the channel
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strugee hey all!
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Loqi strugee: Salt left you a message on 2017-04-21 at 10:36pm UTC: let's try to reschedule the meeting asap, http://whenisgood.net/mcqkcpz
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strugee needs a rubber duck
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ben_thatmustbeme gives strugee a rubber duck
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strugee currently I have https://strugee.net/blog/ which has (shocker) long-form blog posts
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ben_thatmustbeme Side note, my phone wanted to change that last word to something else
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strugee ben_thatmustbeme: oh my god
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strugee I'm cracking up
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strugee ANYWAY
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strugee I'd like to add support for RSVPs, likes, etc., but I don't want to intermingle all those with my "traditional" blog
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eli_oat my phone always goes the other direction
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eli_oat which may be saying more about me than my phone.
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strugee I'm thinking what I'll do is have a separate stream, basically for anything that's not a long-form, titled post
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strugee put it at /social or something, and have a separate link to it in the navbar
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strugee does that seem like a good design? how do other people handle this on their sites?
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[miklb] strugee I do a hybrid on my home page and have a hidden /firehose at the moment.
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eli_oat oooh, I like that "firehose!" sounds so exciting...and dangerous
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[miklb] lol
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aaronpk my "firehose" is just called "all" heh
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aaronpk so creative
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eli_oat I default to showing everything on the home page, and then filter out titled posts, but I don't write that many long form posts
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aaronpk i have a subset of posts on my home page, mostly articles, notes, photos, and checkins with photos
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[miklb] I haven’t lately, but show the latest 3 at the top, then last 10 days of everything else
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[miklb] I’ve been thinking about that though for the theme I’m building for general IW usage.
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[miklb] eventually I could see an options page to filter out by the post-kinds kind on the home page
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strugee [miklb]: hybrid of what?
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[miklb] strugee easiest is to just take a peek. https://miklb.com
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strugee neat, thx
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strugee cool, this has been really useful
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strugee thanks all
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strugee :)
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[miklb] I need links to archive page of articles, and to the /firehose page, just have been lazy. Maybe can work on those during IWS
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@ricmac My second post for AltPlatform #openweb #indieweb -> The hunt for Twitter alternatives: Mastodon http://www.altplatform.org/2017/06/07/mastodon/ (twitter.com/_/status/872652604936830977)
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[eddie] !tell strugee all of my posts show up on /social (although it's paginated, so it's spread across 3 pages). My homepage is any post that I added featured: true to
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk [eddie]: neat
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aaronpk i feel like we should document this somewhere
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aaronpk what is home page?
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Loqi Your homepage represents you on the web, typically at the top of your domain, and shows your name and an iconic representation, often marked up with h-card https://indieweb.org/home_page
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aaronpk And that's not all it shows apparently
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KartikPrabhu sometimes it doesn't even show that (icon, h-card) ;)
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gRegorLove I added RSVP responses to my event posts: https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/homebrew-website-club/
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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tantek gRegorLove++ nice work!
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Loqi gregorlove has 98 karma in this channel (142 overall)
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tantek backfeed from FB even
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tantek checks werd.io
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gRegorLove Yeah, don't think I've received any indie RSVPs
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strugee I think I'm in the minority of people who doesn't want to display dynamic-ish social content on my home page
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Loqi strugee: [eddie] left you a message 2 hours ago: all of my posts show up on /social (although it's paginated, so it's spread across 3 pages). My homepage is any post that I added featured: true to
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KartikPrabhu strugee: "dynamic" as in recent posts?
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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tantek continues watching IWC DUS Service Workers session
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strugee KartikPrabhu: yeah
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strugee "dynamic" as in, content that would regularly change
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strugee as opposed to content that I manually edit every once in a while in a text editor and check into version control
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KartikPrabhu strugee: any reason for that? just curious
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm really digging the vibe of the IndieWeb community, and look forward to building and contributing with the lot of" by Billy Maddex on 2017-06-08 https://billy.moonlightrambler.net/2017/thanks-for-the-warm-welcome-im-really-digging-the-vibe
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strugee (for context my site is 100% static HTML/CSS/JS atm - planning to add support for PuSH etc. via a daemon that sits in the background and will scrape the site on localhost for updates when pinged)
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strugee KartikPrabhu: no particular reason, just personal preference
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strugee currently the home page is just sort of explanatory text
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KartikPrabhu strugee: that is a good enough reason :)
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strugee https://strugee.net/ for reference
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strugee vaguely similar to an "about me"
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strugee KartikPrabhu: :)
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KartikPrabhu strugee: yeah, i prefer to have the "about" stuff on a separate page and have some content on the homepage
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strugee KartikPrabhu: I guess by "content" you mean social content?
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strugee that totally makes sense to me, it's just not to my taste
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strugee idk, maybe I'm just too used to my existing design now :P
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KartikPrabhu well notes and articles. yeah it is a personal taste
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strugee right
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KartikPrabhu so I have somthin like this https://kartikprabhu.com/
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strugee I like it!
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strugee also
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strugee > Images on the Web have a mind of their own.
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strugee lolllll. fml CSS
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KartikPrabhu yeah getting responsive images to work was pretty non-trivial
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strugee lol
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strugee I learned Flexbox recently and it changed my entire life honestly
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strugee something that really, really appeals to me but that I've never bothered to try out is Grid Style Sheets: http://gridstylesheets.org/
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KartikPrabhu yeah it is pretty awesome. I am now playing with CSS grids but they don't seem to work consistently in all supporting browsers
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strugee (unrelated to CSS grids)
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petermolnar strugee I used response images for years, only to realize, that it just makes my life harder; now I'm showing 720p images with links to their larger version
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: sure it is harder but I think worth it.
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strugee I gotta admit I don't know exactly what you mean
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strugee you mean resizing the image based on screen size?
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KartikPrabhu strugee: resizing and also loading the correct resolution
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strugee gotcha
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petermolnar is anyone aware of a _simple_ way to get the last valid version of a url from archive.org? I once found a way, chaining 2-3 json responses, but that's not that simple
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gRegorLove I think just prepending web.archive.org/ to the URL gives you the latest capture
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legalnamefraud hello
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KartikPrabhu good day
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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petermolnar gRegorLove that's with the frame header; I'm looking for something to scrape the old content with
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[kevinmarks] there's a way to get it without the frame, hang on
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[kevinmarks] you put id_ after the date in the url
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[kevinmarks] so http://web.archive.org/web/20170606104345/http://www.kevinmarks.com/ becomes http://web.archive.org/web/20170606104345id_/http://www.kevinmarks.com/
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gRegorLove The date part can be just the year, too, so /web/2017id_/example.com
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[kevinmarks] oh neat
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gRegorLove http://archive.org/web/web-advancedsearch.php#tips
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KartikPrabhu what is archive.org
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Loqi The Internet Archive is a non-profit organization that is building a digital library, including archival copy of much of the public web https://indieweb.org/archive.org
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: add to that ^?
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j4y_funabashi morninga all
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j4y_funabashi am looking at link previews/reply contexts today
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@kevinmarks The Internet of Things as synoptic delusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/06/internet-of-things-smart-home-smart-city #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/872770144535142400)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The Internet of Things as synoptic delusion https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/06/internet-of-things-smart-home-smart-city #Indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-06-08 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/the-internet-of-things-as-synoptic-delusion-technology2017jun06internet-of-things-smart-home-smart-city-indieweb
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Zegnat voxpelli, I might be in Malmö on Wednesday - would you be up for resurrecting HWC Malmö if I am?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Laura Gibbs retweeted: #Indieweb for Education: Some thoughts and an invitation after the #Domains17 Conference boffosocko.com/2017/06/06/dom…" by Laura Gibbs on 2017-06-08 https://twitter.com/OnlineCrsLady/status/872803594071834625
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voxpelli Zegnat: nice, maybe! we should try to take a coffee or something at least :)
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eli_oat The micropub entry on wikipedia is looking great! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropub_(protocol)
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Loqi Micropub
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aaronpk wow nice
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@indiewebcamp We're excited to hold IndieWeb Summit the weekend after http://opensourcebridge.org! You can get $50 off @osbridge registration with INDIEBRIDGE (twitter.com/_/status/872846623147032577)
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[chrisaldrich] !tell pfefferle I'm happy to help on an Indieweb PressThis email, but does it need one? I thought they simply went through https://wordpress.org/plugins/developers/add/ ? Let me know how I can help.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Add Your Plugin
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[chrisaldrich] I added a column for micropub earlier at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_microblogging_services.
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[chrisaldrich] I'm secretly hoping developers at major silos who like to have checkmarks in all the columns will see it and advocate to turn them all to yesses. ?
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb ?
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[cleverdevil] So, I noticed that Apple announced that their Photos app is now more pluggable at WWDC. Now you can create custom extensions that enable "projects" in third-party series.
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[cleverdevil] Initial examples were just alternate print/book publishers.
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[cleverdevil] But, I noticed one interesting one: Wix.
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[cleverdevil] Starting from your personal photo library, you can publish a new photo site to your own domain right from within the app.
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[cleverdevil] Thinking it might be a cool project to explore building something that could use Micropub and media endpoints to do similar things.
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[miklb] that would be pretty cool. Wonder if eddie could add that to his work in progress share sheet at some point
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[cleverdevil] Was thinking the same thing, miklb.
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[eddie] Yeah, I watched the video on that. (I’ve been attending WWDC virtually through my iPad this week ?) Right now I haven’t seen much with the photos app that would necessarily impact micropub. Unless you guys have specific ideas. That API is a “projects” api where you modify and re-arrange photos within the project and then can upload that data somewhere. I don’t see much of an improvement for micropub over the standard share sheet API cur
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[eddie] of multiple photos.
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[eddie] Do you guys have any specific ideas beyond the scope of “uploading multiple photos to a media endpoint”?
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[cleverdevil] :thumbsup:
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[cleverdevil] Nope, that makes sense.
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[miklb] ditto
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[eddie] I did get excited when I saw it ?
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[cleverdevil] Actually.
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[cleverdevil] It might be interesting to have a way to visually build a photo gallery.
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[eddie] That’s true
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[cleverdevil] Then, upload the gallery itself via Micropub.
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[eddie] Oh actually that could be interesting. Re-arrange photos, add captions
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[cleverdevil] Right.
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[miklb] that could get tricky in that you may need a site that would support the gallery in the way its organized in Photos
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[eddie] Yeah that could be cool
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[eddie] true
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[cleverdevil] Well, it could come with a little bundled JavaScript you could include on your site.
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[miklb] waits for the js;dr crowd ?
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[cleverdevil] The standard output could be just simple markup decorated with appropriate classes for later styling.
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[cleverdevil] So, it'd degrade nicely if you didn't have JavaScript enabled ?
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[cleverdevil] But, if you did, it could change the presentation to show one photo at a time, lightboxes, etc.
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[eddie] That’s a pretty interesting idea
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[eddie] I think the tough thing is what does that look like, multiple h-entries? or an h-entry with multiple photos?
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[cleverdevil] One of the (very very few) things I like about Facebook is the ability to easily create and share photos.
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[cleverdevil] Especially little galleries of photos that you can toggle through.
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[eddie] If it’s an h-entry with multiple photos, how are the captions attached to a photo?
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[cleverdevil] Good questions.
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[eddie] Hmmm
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[eddie] I wonder if this is a collections issue.
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[eddie] Create multiple photo entries
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[eddie] and after they are created, create a collection post with the urls of the photo posts
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, that makes good sense to me.
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[eddie] Then the JS could make a collection of photos into a lightbox
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[cleverdevil] It'd be even better if the CMS was smart enough not to present individual photos that are part of a collection.
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[cleverdevil] Otherwise, you'd end up with a weird double-presentation thing.
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[eddie] True
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[eddie] One cool thing is that SiriKit now supports “notes” so I’m thinking after Indigenous is released for iOS 10 as soon as I finish up the 1.0, for the 2.0 on iOS 11, I think I’m gonna try to add voice posting via the notes integration if it’s possible
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[cleverdevil] \o/
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[cleverdevil] Sounds great ?
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[miklb] that would be magic
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Zegnat [eddie], you describe it pretty much the way the wiki does. See /multi-photo where it recommends doing separate photo posts if the photos all need their own caption and combining it into a /collection
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[eddie] Yes, my mind is finally assimilating! ?
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[cleverdevil] I'd really love that functionality on my site.
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[cleverdevil] Add it to the ever-expanding list of stuff to do!
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[eddie] The collection approach is very useful because it means you could also do person-tags on the individual photos, etc
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[cleverdevil] Yup, and comment on both individual photos, and on the collection itself.
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[cleverdevil] (Or send other interactions)
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[eddie] Yep, which actually mirrors Facebook’s approach pretty well
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[eddie] I think the trickiest thing is the CMS’ detection of if a photo is in a collection and as you said, not displaying the photo in a stream. It would have it’s own permalink for both the photo and the collection, but you don’t want the stream to get photos that are in collections really. But I guess step one, make it possible, step two, see what we can do about fixing up the streams
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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[eddie] And it might be a personal preference too, so the big CMSes would have a switch probably
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[cleverdevil] I think I'd likely start with creating a collections plugin for Known
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[cleverdevil] Then, make it possible to mark individual items as "hidden" in feeds/streams.
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[miklb] I could see adding that to post-kinds WP plugin
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[cleverdevil] Then, finally, put it all together.
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[eddie] That makes sense. I’ll add the idea to the Indigenous “list” for 2.0 (as that API isn’t even available until macOS 10.13
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Zegnat What would the micropub flow be like? How do you keep your website from showing the individual photo posts one by one until you get to actually posting the “collection” post?
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[cleverdevil] I think you'd likely have to set some sort of visibility flag on the way in while you're creating the photos.
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[cleverdevil] Alternatively, you could create the collection first, and then add items to the collection as you go.
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[eddie] Ohhhh yes!
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[eddie] With micropub updates
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[eddie] oh!
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[eddie] This is getting tricky so it might require a lot of server updates but, what if you create the collection and then you send a mp-add-collection with the permalink to the collection with each photo post
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[eddie] Basically telling the micropub server that you want to create the photo post AND add it to the collection at that permalink
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[eddie] So there isn’t ever a time when it’s not part of a collection
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[miklb] gotta run, but am excited by the discussion.
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[eddie] :thumbsup:
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[eddie] cleverdevil I have the current in-development features as well as “Future Development Ideas” listed here https://indieweb.org/Indigenous for Indigenous. Let me know if you have anything else you would like to see either in 1.0 or in future
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[eddie] What is Repost?
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
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gRegorLove If anyone is on HackerNews and interested in chiming in with some indieweb experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14515178
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tantek gRegorLove: the "every byte you send over the wire takes time." is a good argument for mf2 over mf1 over microdata/schema over rdfa over json-ld (in rough order of smallest added markup to most bloated additions to a page)
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snarfed eh BS, i want to see numbers. if you measure end user perceived latency, ie from click to finished render, download is something like 5-20% of the time, and mf1 vs mf2 vs none is like <5% of total payload
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snarfed (former is based on my own past measurements/experience, latter is total guess)
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snarfed (and varies widely, etc, but still)
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tantek snarfed, in practice all of that "metadata" is dwarfed by js;dr framework bloat
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snarfed right! and often backend server latency. at least on good connections.
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tantek which just goes to show most web app developers do not care about performance or africa
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snarfed premature optimization, measure before you optimize, etc
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tantek snarfed, in general yes. however # of http requests, and total payload size are known sources of perf inefficiency
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tantek you don't have to spend lots of time to know that
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snarfed definitely! and we're agreed that microformats are a negligibly small fraction
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singpoly1a tantek: Africa means capitals of Senegal and Kenya, where you can get DSL, right?</sarcasm>
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ben_thatmustbeme got my content-thread back up https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/9/12/1/_
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] Just An Inkling Ben Roberts ...
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ben_thatmustbeme seems i have issues with the mf2 still
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/9/12/1/_
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Loqi [Ben Roberts] On account of I got called out on it, I now have back context in my replies!
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ben_thatmustbeme thats better
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tantek nice!
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aaronpk speaking of hackernews https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14516538
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tantek ICYMI, amazing post by julie on IndieWeb Week: https://julieannenoying.com/2017/05/24/indiewebwhaaaat/ (so many pretty photos!)
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tantek also
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tantek whaaaat++
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Loqi whaaaat has 1 karma
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tantek julieannenoying++
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Loqi julieannenoying has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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aaronpk i'm doing two talks at quantified self next week vaguely related to indieweb, should i add those to /events?
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tantek definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme really need to get more people testing their websub publishing at least
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@cleverdevil I'll be at @WCEurope next week. If you're in Paris, and want to meet up, let me know! #WordPress #IndieWeb (https://cleverdevil.io/s/oICV3) (twitter.com/_/status/872918004257968128)
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tantek aaronpk, what do you need to start getting backfeed from HN?
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aaronpk bridgy supporting it would be nice :P
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tantek haha true :)
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Loqi tantek: lol
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aaronpk but they do have an official API which doesn't even require authentication, so it would be pretty easy to add to XRay
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/693
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Loqi [snarfed] #693 hacker news support: publish, backfeed
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aaronpk if only i knew any python
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aaronpk i can't even figure out enough to add nice html formatting to the bridgy permalinks
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snarfed aww sorry
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aaronpk (i actually tried twice and gave up)
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tantek aaronpk - what about improving your reply context here? https://aaronparecki.com/2017/06/08/9/indieweb
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] I am a member of the W3C Social Web Working Group (https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg), and have been organizing IndieWebCamp (https://indieweb.org/) conferences in this space for the last 7 years. We've been making a lot of progress: • https://ww...
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tantek what would that take?
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aaronpk that would be done via XRay
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aaronpk and since they have a nice API, not hard at all
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tantek so that it looks potentially even nicer than the threading shown here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14516538 for your reply to the original
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aaronpk that seems easier than what i am currently doing so i will try that
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tantek and I noticed you linked to https://indieweb.org/specs so I'll go update that
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tantek wow lots of h-entry extensions made it into the core since that page was last touched!
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tantek that lets me simplify the lists a lot
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I'll be at @WCEurope next week. If you're in Paris, and want to meet up, let me know! #WordPress #IndieWeb" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-08 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/ill-be-at-wceurope-next-week-if-youre-in-paris
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