#indieweb 2017-06-30

2017-06-30 UTC
j_juran, davidmead, fzylogic_, mlncn, mmmdik, tantek and [miklb] joined the channel
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BigShip Hey all
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tantek I encourage everyone who participated in person or remotely or to write at least a mini blog post about IndieWeb Summit on their own site! Try to ping news.indieweb.org also so it gets in the newsletter by ~noon tomorrow! Thanks!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Richard MacManus on Twitter: "My latest AltPlatform post looks at the state of feed readers in 2017. #IndieWeb https://t.co/l5MF0FfVZC"" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-29 https://twitter.com/ricmac/status/880297680844406785
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Richard, it's early, but at last weekend's IndieWeb Summit in Portland, a small group of us started tinkering on what we hope could be the" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-29 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/richard-its-early-but-at-last-weekends-indieweb-summit-in
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gRegorLove Thanks for the reminder, tantek. Will try to get something up tonight.
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@billbennettnz Am playing with Indieweb things on my site. It's not my first try, but everything works so much better now. (twitter.com/_/status/880618078442209280)
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@indietechrocks Federated Wiki is an innovative, decentralized wiki that does not screw us #indieweb #fedwiki #wiki http://indietech.rocks/update/2017/06/30/federated-wiki.html (twitter.com/_/status/880624846886936576)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-06-30.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek schmarty++ for the animated HWC Baltimore gif
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Loqi schmarty has 12 karma in this channel (19 overall)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Added Micropub Media Endpoint" https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/06/29/2/article/
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tantek eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 12 karma in this channel (21 overall)
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tantek funny that the IndieWebSummit has no photos in the newsletter
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tantek investigates
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Billbennettnz Google+ doesn't link back to my rel=me URL, the link back is buried on another page. How do you work around this?
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Billbennettnz Having a similar problem with Facebook
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sknebel Billbennettnz: I assume you are talking about using it for indieauth.com? I don't think those work anymore, because they changed exactly that
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sknebel oh, they left... to slow
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sknebel !tell Billbennettnz: I assume you are talking about using it for indieauth.com? I don't think those work anymore, because of those exact changes :/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Did a bit of work on my Indieweb blogroll this evening. Imported some additional data, added photos (Indieweb is people-centric after all), tweaked the CSS, and a few other tidbits. Still doing some work with the OPML feed, but will be adding some additional categories/links soon." by Chris Aldrich on 2017-06-30 http://boffosocko.com/2017/06/30/blogroll-improvements/
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@ChrisAldrich Did a bit of work on my Indieweb blogroll this evening. http://boffosocko.com/2017/06/30/blogroll-improvements/ (twitter.com/_/status/880698345680973824)
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Zegnat Amazed how few people seem to accept homepage mentions :o http://imgur.com/poW49RF
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cweiske is that your admin interface?
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sebsel that looks like telegraph.p3k.io
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Zegnat It is telegraph, yes
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Zegnat Wanted to test it out after it came up during IWS
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sebsel No shame in that. I use it to send webmentions for my new @nick syntax because my site does not yet see them as URLs ;)
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sebsel what is homepage mention?
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Loqi person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/homepage_mention
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Loqi [superfeedr] "A thought in reply to: Blogrolls are coming back… I’m really enjoying the back-to-the future nature of IndieWeb blogging, and am intrigued to see the return of the blogroll. Maintaining the blogroll is likely to be the challlenge for many, as there are many moving parts of a blog. I love that your approach focuses […]" by Des on 2017-06-30 http://www.desparoz.com/2017/06/30/8910/
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@desparoz A thought in reply to: Blogrolls are coming back… I’m really enjoying the back-to-the future nature of IndieWeb ... http://www.desparoz.com/2017/06/30/8910/ (twitter.com/_/status/880721642594369537)
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Zegnat Thought I would submit my little IndieWeb Summit post to IndieNews, but no dice, time out.
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Zegnat Loqi do you also timeout on https://licit.li/595611f87aae1 ?
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Zegnat Oh well.
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schmarty Zegnat: I can view the post, no timeout
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Zegnat It is just public XRay, hosted on Google App Engine, that has trouble fetching my page. And we have no idea why.
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Zegnat Sometimes it will work, and then later it will stop and timeout again.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Micro-blogging" by Phil Stephens on 2017-06-30 https://medium.com/@theprivateer/micro-blogging-7fc321d90396?source=rss------blogging-5
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://licit.li/595611f87aae1 (from https://www.svenknebel.de/posts/2017/6/10/)
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sknebel ugh, formatting fail
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sknebel although I'm not sure why
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sknebel aaronpk ^^^
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sknebel (I have a p-name on my post, but indienews gave me "notices": [ "No \"name\" property found on the h-entry." ] )
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Zegnat You can post to IndieNews by-proxy?
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sknebel yes?
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sknebel you can syndicate bookmarks
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cweiske indienews shows sven's bookmark post
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cweiske not the original
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Zegnat sknebel, It might have been looking for the bookmark name (e.g. h-cite)?
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sknebel then its behavior changed and that wasn't documented :/
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sknebel http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.svenknebel.de%2Fposts%2F2017%2F6%2F10%2F both name or content would be fine
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Loqi [superfeedr] "How to Indiewebify your site" by Paul on 2017-06-28 http://pauljacobson.me/2017/06/28/how-to-indiewebify-your-site/
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Zegnat Yeah, I am unsure why it failed :/
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sknebel wops, publishing date is borked. but that doesn't matter for this
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Zegnat Still, thanks for submitting-by-proxy, hihi
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@SvenSeebeck Blogrolls are coming back (Chris Aldrich | BoffoSocko) Did a bit of work on my Indieweb blogroll this evening. ... https://svens.blog/2017/06/30/361158580/ (twitter.com/_/status/880752522167799808)
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@jgmac1106 @ricmac This is a great post for #indieweb fans. I currently use @feedly as well but love what @OnlineCrsLady has d… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/880779846082854912 (twitter.com/_/status/880779846082854912)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Laura Gibbs retweeted: @ricmac This is a great post for #indieweb fans. I currently use @feedly as well but love what @OnlineCrsLady has done with Inoreader. RSS is my LMS" by Laura Gibbs on 2017-06-30 https://twitter.com/OnlineCrsLady/status/880781787517079552
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sknebel .oO
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Zegnat I just used selfauth to login to both Telegraph and the wiki! ? It is failing for StackExchange though (I use IndieAuth as OpenID thingamabob)
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sknebel nice
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aaronpk hmm i'm not sure why that indienews post didn't work
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sknebel I tried resending the WM, no change
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sknebel (so it wasn't just some strange temporary artifact)
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sl007 Zegnat - the node.js IndieAuth has StackExchange as a provider - it needs some GET params like ?tab=profile to access "me" and ?key=YOUR-API-KEY
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Zegnat sl007: I am my own provider (http://vanderven.se/martijn/ is a provider thanks to selfauth). I use indieauth.com as my OpenID provider to login to StackExchange.
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven
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Zegnat And it works when I use email, but not when I use selfauth as provider, when I try to login to StackExchange with OpenID through IndieAuth.com (lots of small separate parts there :p)
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sl007 ok.
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aaronpk yeah it's a bug on indieauth.com with remembering session stuff
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Zegnat I am just not sure how to open an issue for it, aaronpk. Or if it overlaps with an issue you already have?
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aaronpk just opened an issue for it. feel free to add info! https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/155
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Loqi [aaronpk] #155 Redirect bug when using custom authorization_endpoint on OpenID logins
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Zegnat I'll just add the details in there when I get back from dinner. I have given you enough work now ?
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[cleverdevil] Good morning, IndieWeb.
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[cleverdevil] is working on his IWS recap blog post.
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aaronpk this is gonna be a good newsletter update
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schmarty y'all are workin' me hard this week. ?
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry, we'll have to spread out all the stuff we do
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[miklb] schmarty extended cut, or a two-parter?
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schmarty i am going to try to hold it to 10 minutes ;}
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aaronpk maybe special IWS recap edition?
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aaronpk where was that list of one-line summaries of the demos?
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schmarty there will definitely be recapping of IWS! probably through the lens of people's personal posts on IndieNews, session pages, etc.
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schmarty one-line demo summaries would be good
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sknebel Zegnat made one-line summaries of the sessions
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sknebel http://wiki.zegnat.net/temp/iws-summary
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schmarty nice, thanks! i also found Zegnat's attendee name and URL cheatsheet: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/9f14b67cca8012173477f5c153fe9386
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aaronpk 2017/Demos << Attendee name and URLs: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/9f14b67cca8012173477f5c153fe9386
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Loqi ok, I added "Attendee name and URLs: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/9f14b67cca8012173477f5c153fe9386" to the "See Also" section of /2017/Demos
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aaronpk 2017/Demos << one-line summaries: http://wiki.zegnat.net/temp/iws-summary
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Loqi ok, I added "one-line summaries: http://wiki.zegnat.net/temp/iws-summary" to the "See Also" section of /2017/Demos
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sknebel sessions, not demos
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aaronpk ohh my bad
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GWG I need a new tagline for the webmentions plugin
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GWG Webmentions for WordPress! is not working for me.
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[miklb] what is a webmention
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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tantek GWG, I believe the feedback from IWS was, name the feature/functionality you get, not the plumbing / protocols
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tantek also, steal from the Webmention tagline!
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tantek what is Webmention
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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[miklb] all your mentions are belong to us
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GWG I thought about going with "Enable Conversations Across the Web"
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tantek are there existing "comments" or "responses" plugins?
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tantek think like a user looking to add a feature to their site
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tantek what would they search for in a plugin name?
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GWG tantek: Things like Disqus, I suppose
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tantek right, *better* than Disqus
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[miklb] I think it’s safe to say at this point there’s a plugin that’s been search optimized for everything. Better to go with what’s in the box IMO
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tantek miklb "what's in the box" really? people choose something based on what it *does* for them, not typically (or just) what it's made of (in the box).
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tantek it's not like we're pitching local organic plugins :P
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[cleverdevil] "Enable across the web" is actually not bad, GWG.
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[cleverdevil] I might elaborate slightly more.
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[cleverdevil] errr "Enable conversations"
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tantek "Web Conversations"
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GWG Enable Web Conversations across the Web is awkward.
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[miklb] tantek I just think at this point, people interested in IndieWeb and what comes with it is going to be more of an organic search than trying to generalize the plugin.
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tantek miklb, that's a good point too.
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tantek in addition, maybe it's ok limiting the exposure of the plugin in that regards to folks who are more "intersted in IndieWeb" until the UX is *much* smoother
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tantek total UX of install, setup, use, *and* hopefully even blocking/muting comments from particular domains etc.
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[miklb] that’s not to say that the tagline couldn’t better reflect webmentions for WordPress, a core building block of the IndieWeb.
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@cleverdevil IndieWeb Summit 2017 Recap: https://cleverdevil.io/2017/indieweb-summit-2017-recap (twitter.com/_/status/880825819765112832)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb Summit 2017 Recap" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-30 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/indieweb-summit-2017-recap
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Summit 2017 Recap" https://cleverdevil.io/2017/indieweb-summit-2017-recap
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[miklb] speaking of UX, we have issues open in the repo on the IW plugin if any UX/UI designers want to provide feedback in the form of wireframes or mockups.
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GWG How's this line? "Enable conversation across the web. When you link to a website you can send it a webmention to notify it and then that website may display your post as a comment, like, or other response, and presto, you’re having a conversation from one site to another!" It isn't mine, but it works.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "for me @Inoreader is EXACTLY what I need both for following student blog network AND for tons of syndication. RSS is my LMS (h/t @jgmac1106) Quoted tweet from @ricmac: My latest AltPlatform post looks at the state of feed readers in 2017. #IndieWeb altplatform.org/2017/06/28/the…" by Laura Gibbs on 2017-06-30 https://twitter.com/OnlineCrsLady/status/880824627337015303
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[miklb] I think taglines should undersell, over deliver.
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GWG [miklb]: Ideas there?
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GWG I have the spec up for ideas and the wiki page
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[miklb] I’m ruminating on that as we speak.
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[miklb] Take back your conversations with webmentions for WordPress using a core building block of the IndieWeb is where my head is at.
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GWG Take them back?
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tantek is this for experienced users or new wordpress users? what are they taking their conversations back from?
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[miklb] obviously my head is the wrong cloud. lol
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[miklb] is in
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GWG tantek: This is the tagline in the WordPress repo. So, new Indieweb, possibly old WordPRess.
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[miklb] ^
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[miklb] I don’t think we are really at a point to try and attract someone both new to WordPress and IndieWeb. Lot’s of learning curves to navigate there.
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tantek agreed
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GWG This is just improving documentation right now.
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GWG I'm hoping to attract people familiar with WordPress but new to IndieWeb.
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GWG Let's say the Anomalilys of this world, considering the IWS presentation
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tantek GWG, anomalily was very critical of the naming of the plugins - she said they were all (except for "IndieWeb") very confusingly weirdly techie named
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tantek so if you're trying to attract the Anomalilys, you need to change the names.
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GWG I'm trying to change the tagline for now, which appears when you search.
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tantek that's literally where my point above was naming what it does, not what's "inside the box"
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[miklb] lol.
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tantek cleverdevil++ so far *one* blog post about IndieWeb Summit in the newsletter
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Loqi cleverdevil has 36 karma in this channel (48 overall)
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tantek though eddie and snarfed's count too since they are about a specific project done at IWS
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tantek lol that's not what tom sawyering is
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GWG tantek: I know it isn't.
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GWG I said it was like Tom Sawyer. I didn't think it would be turned into a verb.
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tantek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Tom_Sawyering
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tantek ok the more general definition fits anomalily's usage: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Tom_Sawyer#English
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tantek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Tom_Sawyer#Verb in particular
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[miklb] Saying what is in the box doesn't necessarily mean listing the ingredients
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snarfed [miklb]: re IW plugin wireframes/mocks, definitely nudge [cleverdevil] and scottjenson! they said at IWS that they wanted to help with UX/product stuff
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[miklb] Yes, definitely. Was also an open invitation to anyone lurking who would like to contribute but haven't been sure how if they don't "code"
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[cleverdevil] Definitely happy to help. Was hoping to do some wireframing at IWS, but didn't get a chance.
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[cleverdevil] Got distracted by other projects ?
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[cleverdevil] It'd be great if we could attract some skilled designers, too.
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tantek did you see Michelle's new site?!?
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tantek it's pretty sweet
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tantek we do have some skilled designers, just outnumbered here
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tantek and frankly out-topic'd by more dev-centric/focused discussions, *despite* having a dev channel for that
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[cleverdevil] I mostly mean attracting skilled designers to help with the WordPress IW experience, not to the community ?
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[cleverdevil] We have some great designers already in the broader community.
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[eddie] miklb: what repo for Wordpress had UI/UX discussions?
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[colinwalker] Anyone else using Slack rather than IRC having it crash when trying to at mention?
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[miklb] eddie here’s one https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-uf2/issues/29 I should probably start an issue in the indieweb-wordpress repo specifically for that discussion however.
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Loqi [miklb] #29 Merge with IndieWeb plugin.
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[miklb] here’s another closer to the subject https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/72
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Loqi [dshanske] #72 Redo Getting Started with WordPress page into Something More Interactive
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[miklb] colinwalker no issues for me
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[miklb] desktop app on macOS
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[colinwalker] I'm on iOS. It's only happening in indieweb channels and only started seeing it today.
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[eddie] miklb Thanks, I'll take a peek
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[miklb] but thanks for asking, we should have a dedicated issue about the recommended plugins/wizard discussion and moving that forward.
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BigShip tantek: is there a cutoff for posts?
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aaronpk the newsletter goes out at 3pm today, it will be generated a few minutes before that. if you miss it it'll just have to wait til next week :)
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sknebel What time is it for aaronpk?
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Loqi In aaronpk's timezone, US/Pacific, it is currently 11:19am on June 30
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BigShip What time is it for Bigship?
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Loqi Sorry, I don't see Bigship on https://indieweb.org/irc-people
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BigShip is just checking
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[miklb] OK, I closed out the issue on the wp-uf2 plugin and opened one in the IW plugin to discuss a 2.0 version as just an installer. https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/74
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Loqi [miklb] #74 2.0 Strictly an Installer
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@aaronpk Photos from IndieWeb Summit 2017! https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/sets/72157683338925261 Tho I am not as good a photographer as @iwontsignuphere! Missed you this year! (twitter.com/_/status/880854722843824128)
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aaronpk attempts to submit a flickr URL to indienews
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Photos from IndieWeb Summit 2017" https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/sets/72157683338925261 (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/06/30/6/)
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aaronpk \o/
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sketchess What is local time?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "local time" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sketchess What is requested to do to join in November the activities?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "requested to do to join in November the activities" yet. Would you like to create it?
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Zegnat schmarty, if you wanted one line demo summaries you should have filed the service request :p
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sketchess 4.11. -11.11.
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tantek what is iwc berlin?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWC_Berlin
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tantek sketchess presumably by "November the activities" you mean IndieWebCamp Berlin, to join, follow the instructions here: https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin#RSVP
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schmarty Zegnat: the /2017/Demos notes are already extremely excellent.
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sketchess Excuse me tantek, but it does not really help.
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tantek sketchess the instructions say exactly: " Registration: Please register, we need numbers for food and drinks " and link to a ticketing system. are you having trouble with the instructions, the link, the ticketing system, or something else?
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Appreciation" https://gregorlove.com/2017/06/indieweb-appreciation/
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sketchess Yes I have read the instructions and they are not clear to me.
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tantek which part is not clear?
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tantek can you copy paste the text that is not clear to you?
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sketchess I am interested in joining the HWC and the following event of the same week.
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tantek what is HWC?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club is a bi-weekly meetup of people passionate about or interested in creating, improving, building, designing their own website, in the same structure as the classic Homebrew Computer Club meetings https://indieweb.org/hwc
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sketchess Have a bit patience with me tantek.
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tantek sketchess I think you'll find in general people here have lots of patience to help
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sketchess Wait a minute, I lost the track completely. Oh boy.
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@gRegorLove IndieWeb Appreciation: https://gregorlove.com/2017/06/indieweb-appreciation/ (twitter.com/_/status/880863402129735680)
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tantek sketchess, no problem, take your time
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schmarty gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 102 karma in this channel (160 overall)
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sketchess I have to correct myself. I am interested to join the Indie Web Camp and the event of the following days of the same week. Just forgot what it was named. Now, I have it.
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sketchess So far so good.
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sketchess I am not quit sure how to register myself.
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sketchess +e
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sketchess And what else has to be done.
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aaronpk did you find the registration link on that page in the instructions under RSVP?
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sketchess What is RSVP?
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Loqi An RSVP is a reply to an event post that says whether the sender is or is not attending, might attend, or is just interested in the event https://indieweb.org/rsvp
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sketchess a moment
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Zegnat The following days is https://beyondtellerrand.com/ - a completely different paid event with its own registration and costs. The organisers just happen to be the same people.
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aaronpk sketchess: i meant here: https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin#RSVP
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sketchess Yes I saw that aaronpk.
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aaronpk what about that is unclear?
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sketchess That looks not like the page, I have in memory Zegnat.
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sketchess Well I don't think I can that do aaronpk.
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aaronpk what in particular?
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sketchess The whole tech stuff.
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aaronpk tech stuff?
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sketchess jep
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aaronpk the first thing it asks is to register at the registration URL, should be no "tech stuff" involved with that
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tantek sketchess, can you copy paste the text that seems unclear?
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sketchess That will not fit the screen I am afraid.
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tantek sketchess, can you copy the first line of the text that seems unclear?
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sketchess I try to make sense out of the whole page of RSVP. I simply not understand it.
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aaronpk sketchess: start at https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin#RSVP
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sketchess What is that and how does it work: https://ti.to/tollwerk/indiewebcamp-berlin-2017 ?
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aaronpk i'm not sure how you ended up at the RSVP page from there because there aren't any links to it in that section
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sebsel aaronpk sketchess asked what RSVP was and Loqi answered
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aaronpk okay but that doesn't have anything to do with IndieWebCamp Berlin
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petermolnar what is IndieWebCamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indieweb.org/indiewebcamp
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petermolnar when is IndieWebCamp?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/indiewebcamp
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petermolnar sketchess: IWC (IndieWebCamp) is an event, which happens at various locations at various times; it's not a constant, ongoing happening. To see when is the next, go to http://indieweb.org/IWC . There is another, smaller, recurring event, called HWC (Homebrew Website Club), for which we have http://indieweb.org/HWC - you may want to first join one of these; there is a virtual one every 2nd week.
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sketchess Than I do not know, why you pointed to RSVP somehow. I never intended or assumed RSVP, I just asked Loqi to know what it is.
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petermolnar as for joining the movement, indieweb, you first need a website and your own domain, described here: http://indieweb.org/getting_started
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sketchess Please time out.
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petermolnar pardon?
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sketchess We are heading in the wrong direction.
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petermolnar certainly not indieweb, that is heading towards a good direction; you, on the other hand, need to be much clearer on what you're after
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[chrisaldrich] I suspect that despite sketchess' generally excellent English, it's not a native language.
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb Appreciation" on 2017-06-30 https://gregorlove.com/2017/06/indieweb-appreciation/
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[chrisaldrich] Which particular event are you trying to RSVP for sketchess? Did you find the correct one?
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sketchess I am German chrisaldrich and I do my very best to let my head don't trick me. Thank you.
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sketchess I don't RSVP chrisalderich. My attempts to find out which methods are possible to register, in general, failed.
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aaronpk that is what i was trying to figure out
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aaronpk the event you are interested in is 2017/Berlin, which lists registration information here: https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin#RSVP
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[chrisaldrich] Sketchess, which particular event are you looking at?
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aaronpk can you please clarify what text there is confusing?
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sketchess give me a second chrisalderich
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[chrisaldrich] If it is the Berlin event, you could email joschi@tollwerk.de to RSVP.
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[chrisaldrich] It might also be useful to have a German version of that page if someone could translate it.
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sketchess You will have to do more than that, I am afraid.
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sketchess And I am afraid I have to stop here, because I am driving the devils circle. At least for today. I can't even finish and that is a kind of sad.
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sketchess I am appriciate all your attempts, thank you very much.
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sketchess I wish a good morning and a nice evening to all.
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gRegorLove o/ Good evening, sketchess. Hopefully we can get you registered next time you're around.
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[chrisaldrich] Sketchess++ for tenacity with English translation
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Loqi sketchess has 2 karma
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Billbennettnz sknebel: that's what I feared. Looks like the idea of independence threatens these companies
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Loqi Billbennettnz: sknebel left you a message 12 hours, 29 minutes ago: I assume you are talking about using it for indieauth.com? I don't think those work anymore, because of those exact changes :/
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Billbennettnz Yes, also notice that Twitter linked back yesterday, but doesn't now. I haven't changed anything, it was overnight in my time zone.
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Zegnat Twitter hasn’t changed their rel-me links as far as I have noticed
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Summit 2017 Wrap-Up!" https://aaronparecki.com/2017/06/30/11/iws2017-wrap
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-06-30.html
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j_juran Oh man, that GIF :-D
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schmarty a multi-gif newsletter!
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Billbennettnz Well I have changed anything and the link back has broken overnight. Will investigate.
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Billbennettnz Indiewebifyme reports it doesn't link back, but link seems fine to me. Works fine, points to https... can see why it's reported as broken
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sebsel Billbennettnz what is your site?
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tantek Billbennettnz: that may be because indiewebify needs to be updated to handle Twitter tcoing your website URL.
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tantek what is indiewebify
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Loqi Indiewebify.me is a service that checks how "indie web" your site is and reports back its results https://indieweb.org/indiewebify
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tantek https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/59
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Loqi [aaronpk] #59 Twitter rel=me verification not working
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Billbennettnz https://billbennett.co.nz
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gRegorLove Billbennettnz: indiewebify.me is pending some updates deployed for rel-me links
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gRegorLove It handles the t.co, but it was overly strict about http scheme matching. The updated version gives better messages
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Billbennettnz Ah, curious that same address worked yesterday
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gRegorLove Manually inspecting, the rel-me links are still in place between your site and Twitter (and vice versa). Were you having trouble logging in with IndieAuth?
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Billbennettnz No, I think everything Twitter related is fine, except for indiewebify-me
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gRegorLove That's good. Thanks for the nudge; we'll hopefully get some improvements to indiewebify.me out soon.
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[kiai] colinwalker: I use Slack on Firefox on an old MacBook Pro with Sierra and have no crash problems.
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Zegnat gRegorLove++ I just finished reading your IndieWeb Appreciation post, nice!
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Loqi gregorlove has 103 karma in this channel (164 overall)
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tantek hey everyone, great job on the wrap up posts - awesome work
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j_juran It might be worth mentioning whether the rel=me worked (a) as is, or only by following redirects, and (b) if there were insecure redirects (i.e. HTTPS->HTTP->HTTPS).
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tantek Zegnat - heads-up see #Indieweb-chat for a few typo fixes
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gRegorLove Zegnat: Thanks :)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-06-30.html
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[grantcodes] Has anyone seen the (maybe new) facebook recommendations feature? You can ask friends for recommendations of places to visit on a map. I wonder how it could be done in an indieweb way...
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[grantcodes] Probably pretty complicated to decentralize
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Zegnat People could send you homepage mentions of reviews on their site or something, as a recommendation
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[cleverdevil] Hmm.
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[cleverdevil] Alternatively, you could create a post seeking recommendations and webmention everyone's homepage with a reference to it.
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[cleverdevil] Then, your friends could create recommendation posts that webmention your original post.
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[cleverdevil] If the original included location information, and so did the recommendation posts, then you could even overlay all of the suggestions on the map.
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[cleverdevil] And clicking on the icons that represent suggestions could link off to the permalinks for the recommendations themselves.
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[cleverdevil] ?
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[cleverdevil] We did talk about a lot of potentially interesting use cases for homepage webmentions in this IWS session - https://indieweb.org/2017/indiesiri
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j_juran I had a thought: I have a number of websites. One of them is my first and currently most prominent, one of them is my name (used for indieauth), and the rest are for projects (e.g. vcode.org) or single-page billboard sites (like jsdr.org). Would there be value in having rel=“mine” and rel=“owner” to document these relationships?
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snarfed j_juran: start with a consuming use case?
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Zegnat In a way I guess rel="author" does that
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j_juran ok
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-06-30.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/880912589814865920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/880912589814865920)
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gRegorLove What is rel-author?
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Loqi rel-author is a microformat for linking a post to the URL representing its author https://indieweb.org/rel-author
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gRegorLove Definitely at least rel=me between them all, perhaps rel-author if you don't include authorship information in h-entry on the non-primary sites
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gRegorLove Note this though: https://indieweb.org/rel-author#Questions
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gRegorLove rel-author is mostly for legacy parsers
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[grantcodes] Re recommendations: Webmentions would certainly be involved somehow. But is there a way to say I specifically only want mentions with a location?
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gRegorLove Not that I know of. I think recommendations with an h-geo could be a nice enhancement, but a simple /note response could also be good. "Blue Star Donuts is amazing" is still a useful recommendation if you ask me about Portland donuts
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gRegorLove Simplest case, shows up as a comment on your rec. request post. Then if I add h-geo, it could also show on a map
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gRegorLove [grantcodes]: Where is that feature on Facebook? Documenting their UI would be a good first step.
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Zegnat Having a hard time staying awake. Have a good one everyone!
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gRegorLove Create a Post UI > Feeling/Activity > Type "Looking for" > select from a variety of options like "fun people" "help" "answers" "a miracle"on and on
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gRegorLove Several with recommendation in the name: "doctor recommendations" "home recommendations" "car recommendations" etc.
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gRegorLove And yes, "Looking for: Nessie" is an option
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FourFire Greetings
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gRegorLove Welcome FourFire
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FourFire I'm afraid I've turned up at the wrong channel, but perhaps someone here can direct me to a more appropriate one:
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FourFire I'm looking for usable lifelogging software
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FourFire something that functions like the old Nokia Lifeblog program, which puts SMS, images, GPS coordinates and such along a searchable timeline
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gRegorLove We have some people in the community into quantified self, if that's what you mean.
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FourFire Maybe all i need is the name of this exact category of software for googling and I'll be on my way
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gRegorLove Though our focus is on personal websites and owning our data, we do document services like that. I don't think we have a page specifically for Lifeblog
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[grantcodes] Yeah that's what I was thinking, it's just not going to be a great user experience. Would be able to say I want an h-geo in a reply and a micropub client can pick that up and create the appropriate UI for it. Come to think about it I'm sure something very similar was discussed at IWS
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[grantcodes] https://www.facebook.com/recommendations
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[grantcodes] I'll do some screenshots
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[cleverdevil] Getting the building blocks working first seems doable, though.
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[cleverdevil] Then, its a matter of iteration.
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snarfed more indieweb love from altplatform: http://altplatform.org/2017/06/30/why-we-should-care-about-open-web/
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Loqi [Emre Sokullu] Why we should all care about Open Web
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FourFire gRegorLove, do you know someone who might know enough to be able to recommend a software like that?
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FourFire incidentally, any thoughts on Urbit (what is it even?)
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gRegorLove aaronpk?
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gRegorLove What is Urbit?
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Loqi Urbit is whatever you understand from https://urbit.org/ https://indieweb.org/Urbit
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gRegorLove Haha
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Loqi rofl
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gRegorLove I think we're equally confused about Urbit
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[cleverdevil] I am really starting to like the idea of actionable inbound webmentions.
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[cleverdevil] Meaning, someone sends a webmention to my homepage, and that webmention acts as a sort of request of some type.
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[cleverdevil] It may be a request for recommendations, like grantcodes was suggesting earlier, or a request to schedule a meeting with me by sending me a link to an Event which I can RSVP to, etc.
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[grantcodes] Yeah I can see a lot of use cases for it.
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[grantcodes] A photo site that lets you submit photos
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[cleverdevil] That's more like IndieNews, but yeah, that is also a valid use case.
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[cleverdevil] I am more interested in point-to-point interactions between individuals using their websites/
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Did you ever look up indorsements?
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[cleverdevil] Nope.
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[cleverdevil] What are indorsements?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indorsements" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu why overload webmentions to do this?
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/indorsements
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[cleverdevil] Seems like a fairly logical overload of webmentions to me.
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[grantcodes] what are endorsements?
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Loqi An endorsement is the approval/support of someone or something, typically used to endorse someone's skills in an area https://indieweb.org/endorsements
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GWG It reminds me of what you are talking about
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KartikPrabhu what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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[cleverdevil] "other rich interactions across the decentralized social web"
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[cleverdevil] I think grantcodes' "recommendations" use case is a pretty clear example.
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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[cleverdevil] I also think my example of sending a webmention to someone's homepage for an Event post seeking their RSVP is a good one.
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[cleverdevil] Feels natural ?
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[grantcodes] Yeah, trying to make a recommendations page on the wiki. Wikis are hard
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Zegnat [cleverdevil], you mean an https://indieweb.org/invite ?
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Zegnat can’t sleep
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GWG Zegnat: Sorry
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[cleverdevil] Very much like that, @Zegnat.
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[eddie] I think he means a private invite
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[cleverdevil] I think it can work either way, honestly.
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[cleverdevil] Whether or not the person is listed on the public Event post.
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[eddie] Oh definitely
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[cleverdevil] You can still send a webmention to them, which can/should be interpreted as an invitation.
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Zegnat there are private webmentions, which means only my endpoint will be able to read the invite (or see the event post where you invited me)
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[eddie] I think private invites are an interesting use case that isn't documented on that page
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[cleverdevil] FWIW, I can also see "Friend Requests" as a use case, here.
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[cleverdevil] (Which would then enable private posts, and the like, much easier)
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[eddie] Hmm would that need to be enabled? I feel like if I want someone to read a post I can add them as an audience (or if I create some type of circle style grouping). Does someone need to request to be a friend? I think I'm missing that connection a little
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[eddie] If I want someone to read something private I can add them to the list regardless of if they are a "friend"
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[cleverdevil] Sure, but its just a convenient way to have our sites establish that linkage.
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[eddie] Gotcha.
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[cleverdevil] Also, would potentially give you a contact list or database in your site of people to conveniently add as audiences.
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[eddie] That's true, I populate my friend list right now by entering their name and URL
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[eddie] So I maintain my own one was friend database
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[eddie] One way*
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Zegnat Yes, like the people who have a nickname cache implemented. But not sure that needs to be reciprocal
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[eddie] Yeah the reciprocity was my main confusion. Seems in excess
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Zegnat Although a “I used XFN you tag you as a friend on this page, maybe you want to do the same” message might be interesting. If people want to make their following lists public
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[eddie] I guess it's a way to say "I'm interested in a deeper interaction level"
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[eddie] As a "friend request"
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[cleverdevil] I think the reciprocal bit allows for two people to share privately more easily.
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[cleverdevil] Its less of a friend request, and more of a "let's add each other to our respective contact lists"
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Zegnat But the tech doesn’t require that. Unless it is somehow a “put me on a webmention whitelist” request
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Zegnat yeah, I can get that
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[cleverdevil] That said, "Friend Request" is an established pattern thanks to many silos.
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[cleverdevil] Sort of why I called it that ?
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Zegnat Except for Facebook I don’t think any of the silos I use have friend requests. Mostly non-reciprocal following instead of reciprocal friending.
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Zegnat goes and tries to sleep again. Thanks for the distraction IndieWeb! You all deserve a rel="friend"
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[cleverdevil] ?
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[cleverdevil] LinkedIn and Facebook both have a reciprocal connection that then allows "private" sharing.
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[cleverdevil] But, point taken.
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[cleverdevil] Go to bed!
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sebsel If I have someone listed as a friend, I can also share more of my h-card with them
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sebsel I don't want to have my phone number and address on there, but it would be nice if they are able to fetch it once befriended.
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sebsel Then my address book is just a collection of URLs and every once in a while I fetch new h-cards :)
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sebsel That idea is also somewhere on the wiki
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sebsel goes to bed too
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