#indieweb 2017-07-03

2017-07-03 UTC
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Loqi [superfeedr] "GitHub - dckc/awesome-ocap: Awesome Object Capabilities and Capability Security" by Offray Luna on 2017-07-03 https://github.com/dckc/awesome-ocap
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[miklb] curious what’s indieweb about that
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tantek no idea
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tantek aaronpk: any idea what search term triggered that superfeedr result above?
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aaronpk Odd, the only thing vaguely indieweb is sandstorm, but I have no idea why superfeedr put that in the indieweb search
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@jf2feed Jf2 feed now a recognized iana media type. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/881692450666016769)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Virtual Homebrew Website Club Meetup | July 8, 2017" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-07-03 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/virtual-homebrew-website-club-meetup-july-8-2017
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked Jonathan LaCour's IndieWeb Summit 2017 Recap" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-07-03 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/liked-jonathan-lacours-indieweb-summit-2017-recap-04c8455228
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@miklb Plans for Jekyll IndieWeb Project: https://miklb.com/plans-for-jekyll-indieweb-project/ (twitter.com/_/status/881753578490261504)
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Zegnat schmarty++ for your pronunciation of my name :D That was pretty close and you definitely get extra points for tackling it twice (!!!) including my surname (!!!)
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Loqi schmarty has 13 karma in this channel (20 overall)
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@kevinmarks @stavvers @Independent Share the amp version? I have a bookmarklet to find it for you http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-7-to-amp-or-not-to-amp-100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/881814354227843074)
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@DanielGenser Ableton has released a nice, interactive tutorial series called Learnig Music. / A list of active #indieweb ... http://myhomeisthesea.com/linkdrop-001/ (twitter.com/_/status/881889492726153216)
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@hs0ucy «Why the #IndieWeb movement is so important» ~ http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (http://hugo.soucy.cc/note/2017/07/why-the-indie-web-movement-is-so-important.html) (twitter.com/_/status/881891061991444480)
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schmarty Haha, thanks, Zegnat! I think it is important to address people the way they prefer! It is sometimes one of the more tricky aspects of the audio newsletter
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Loqi hehe
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Zegnat I would have accepted Zegnat for convenience ;) But I do prefer my actual name, yes
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sknebel I assume you guys already discussed linking to audio samples?
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Zegnat Yes. The problem is that I do not like my own pronunciation of my own name
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tantek Zegnat you could always record someone else pronouncing your name and post that as part of your h-card
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tantek it's a little used property of vCard and thus hCard, that we haven't yet adopted in h-card (due to lack of use so far)
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schmarty I have a cheap trick where I use Google translate
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Zegnat Yes, I would put it on my h-card, matching the property name from vCard
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Zegnat Living in a country where my name isn’t native either, just magically creating someone to record is not the easiest thing
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schmarty You can set the source language and press the speaker button to get a robotic approximation
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tantek now that I'm going to be posting an indie event nearly weekly, it's going to force me to keep improving my indie event support nearly every week accordingly
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schmarty tantek: if you're interested in using a micropub client for posting events, I'd love feedback on /Slater
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tantek schmarty - could you add it with screnshots to /create ?
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tantek looks like we may need a "tools" or "software" section on /create
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tantek or maybe even a separate /create-event
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tantek wow lots of IRC and matrix quits. at least what I just said made it into the logs.
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tantek !tell schmarty http://indieweb.org/irc/2017-07-03#t1499098762137
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk whoops looks like the matrix gateway went down
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@paulrobertlloyd Hoping the @Pinboard-inspired presentation is more helpful to people. With slides hosted on my own site, it’s #IndieWeb-flavoured, too ? (twitter.com/_/status/881928521324662787)
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amitp Brasília!
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sketchess Good morning / evening.
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aaronpk that's a nice way to show slides from a talk!
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tantek aaronpk - indeed - do we have a page for that with examples / screenshots?
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aaronpk what are slides?
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Loqi Presentations and slide decks about the indieweb (in chronological order) are listed below https://indieweb.org/slides
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aaronpk heh
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tantek what is a presentation?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "presentation" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is a talk?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "talk" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek I'd prefer to pick a singular term rather than plural, consistent with our other "types" of things we document
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tantek e.g. /event vs /events
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tantek (for the most part) consistent
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tantek paulrobertlloyd++
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Loqi paulrobertlloyd has 3 karma
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tantek hey amitp! add yourself to /irc-people so you show up with a link and icon in the logs e.g. https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-03#t1499103417616000
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Loqi [amitp] Brasília!
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amitp hm, I should do that
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sketchess o.o? football?
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sketchess Sweet dreams, a good morning and good night. :)
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tantek hmm FB Messegner is blocking my /contact link again
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[kiai] hello. Happy Independence Day Eve.
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amitp H.I.D.E.?
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[kiai] Let's celebrate web independence by hiding from corporate takeovers. Just had a horrible experience helping a nonprofit escape from Web.com.
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[kiai] It's not over yet. The domain is still registered with register . com
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Zegnat tantek, is that fb-messenger scheme still what it wants? My m.me (see http://vanderven.se/martijn/) link for Facebook Messenger prompts me to open the app on Android, no custom scheme required.
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven
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tantek Zegnat good question - but unrelated to the issue I'm having
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tantek to be clearer: when I paste my /contact link into a FB Messenger chat and attempt to send, it blocks the sending of the message with some sort of security scare error
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Zegnat Oooh. Sorry, I misunderstood then :)
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Jeena oh man, I think it's the 7th time or so I'm trying to get woodwind to run an my computer to be able to look into why the website often has a error 500 or doesn't index for days. But every time I try it it sadly doesn't run, first because some modules are not listed as requirements, then because some versions of modules don't build with my gcc version and when I upgrade them they crash later on when I start the thing up
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tantek Jeena - sounds technical enough to take to dev unfortunately :(
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tantek #indieweb-dev that is
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j12t Sounds worthwhile to get Woodwind packaged as an UBOS app ... then installation would be simple. If I had some time ...
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Jeena yeah, I'll dig in a little bit more before I ask him
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tantek j12t definitely! Would be great to have Woodwind as the preferred Reader on UBOS!
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Jeena ah I didn't know about that chat
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tantek Jeena - a bunch of official channels now: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat
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tantek having reported a bunch of spam or abusive accounts on various silos (and had them taken down), I'm running into more and more interesting edge cases
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tantek I bring this up (silo spam profiles) because as IndieWeb adoption grows, it is inevitable that we will encouter similar challenges
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tantek *encounter
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tantek the basic question is "spam or not"
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tantek wonders if that could be gamified with a website like hotornot was
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tantek i.e. submit a site/profile for consideration, or rate a site in how spammy it is from 1 to 10
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aaronpk i read a good article about this from someone who worked on the gmail spam team
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tantek so here's an example: http://instagram.com/cutewatches269
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aaronpk they decided that spam is defined as whether or not the person reading it wants to see it, rather than on an absolute scale
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tantek aaronpk: email spam is VERY different IMO than web spam
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aaronpk i still don't think there is an absolute scale that you can judge web spam on
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tantek so is that IG profile spam? or just a very slick salesy company account?
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tantek aaronpk - I think it's better to first discuss (document?) specific examples rather than whether an abstract absolute scale works or not
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/16/16/spam
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] > The new definition of spam is "whatever our users say spam is", a definition that cannot be argued with and is simultaneously crisp enough to implement, yet vague enough to adapt to whatever spammers come up with.
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tantek huh, my experience is very different
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tantek in every silo context I've been able to come up with hard and fast rules for all cases I've seen so far
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Zegnat I never get spam for watches. I get spam about girls mostly.
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tantek Zegnat: there are different vectors
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tantek e.g. that IG account above just followed me
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tantek other IG accounts comment on your posts
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tantek others just "like" your posts, and others @-mention you
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Zegnat IG has been notorious for that for me too. Thought mine are always girls, haha.
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Loqi Zegnat: lol
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Zegnat Just recently I had one of those on Facebook though, which was a first for me.
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aaronpk it's spam if you don't want to see it
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Zegnat I don’t think I have ever seen @-mention spam
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tantek aaronpk: no that's too diluted to be useful and errantly conflates spam with /abuse
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tantek also errantly conflates spam with friends who just post too damn much :P
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tantek aaronpk: re: your spam post / quotes from that Gmail. only thing impressive about Gmail's spam blocking is that it seems better than all the other silos / software out there
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tantek it still gets obvious things wrong
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tantek like here's a trivial thing - how about auto-labeling anything from 1) a user I have never sent to or received from, 2) a *domain* I have never sent to / received from
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tantek keep those out of my inbox for later processing, or for me to check when I know I am about to get something from a new domain (signed up for a new site), or a new user (just met someone)
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tantek at this point all the spam I get is from accounts I've NEVER emailed
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tantek so that would be a *trivial* dynamic greylist to implement
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amitp gmail is now marking email from my friends as spam :(
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tantek I actually think such obvious holes in Gmail and other silo spam approaches mean there is a huge opportunity for IndieWeb solutions
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tantek amitp yeah that's a mistake too - if you've sent/received email from someone, gmail should not be marking that as spam
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tantek BTW, reporting something as Spam on Gmail gives you *zero* feedback
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amitp yeah, but I get spam from accounts I've emailed, and most of my legit email is from people I've never interacted with before :(
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tantek whereas reporting spam on Instagram gives you *follow-up* when they've reviewed (and hopefully taken down) the account!
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amitp Yeah, I was quite surprised by the instagram followup. Nice
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tantek what is report
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Loqi Report abuse (AKA report inappropriate) is a feature in many (most?) silos for notifying the silo owners that a specific user, post, or comment is abusive https://indieweb.org/report
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petermolnar tantek I am running greylisting; for my surprise, there is spam that slips through
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tantek more recently I'm seeing Twitter respond to abuse reports as well (actual abusive posts, not sales/mktg spam)
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tantek I've had a bunch of success with reporting hateful accounts and getting them taken down
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tantek (on Twitter)
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amitp For a while gmail decided that if I was deleting emails, it must be spam, so it stopped showing them to me :-(
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tantek whoa that's weird too
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tantek what is gmail
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Loqi Gmail is an email reading, composing, and searching client and service hosted by Google https://indieweb.org/gmail
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tantek maybe some of this is worth documenting with specific examples or at least anecdotal experiences ^^^
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petermolnar I've tried to switch from hello@petermolnar.eu to hello@petermolnar.net; all email I sent to any gmail address from .net ended up as spam, so I decided to roll back
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petermolnar same server, same way of dmarc, dkim signing, etc.
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amitp Everything is going to behave this way once machine learning takes over. Your phone will open the email app when you try to open the web browser. Your car will mysteriously turn left when you turn the steering wheel right. The fire department will show up at your home when you open the refrigerator. And nobody will be able to explain any of it.
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tantek amitp all those depend on various silos, another reason to indieweb all the things :)
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amitp one day, bridgy will have the fire department show up when I turn the steering wheel right ;)
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Jeena oh, wow, my Events h-feed looks quite broken http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjeena.net%2Fevents%2F
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aaronpk looks mostly okay except the lack of a p-name on the h-feed
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Jeena and I don't have a published date
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Jeena hm I have two <h1> there, one for future and one for past events, I guess I should make them <h2> and put a <h1 class="p-name">Events</h1> on top
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Zegnat You don’t need a published date. Actually, published date hasn’t made it into h-event yet I think.
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Jeena but without a published date feed readers get really confused and set the date when they fetch as the published date
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Jeena and then your get a looooong list of events all 'published' 'today'
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[cleverdevil] Howdy, IndieWeb.
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tantek interesting design update on Google News home page
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tantek what is Google News
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google News" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek Google News is an automated news portal run by [[Google]] at https://news.google.com/
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Loqi ok
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tantek looks more like a blog now than a news portal homepage
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tantek Google News << 2017-06-27 blog.google / Anand Paka: <cite>[https://www.blog.google/topics/journalism-news/redesigning-google-news-everyone/ Redesigning Google News for everyone]</cite>
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-06-27 blog.google / Anand Paka: <cite>[https://www.blog.google/topics/journalism-news/redesigning-google-news-everyone/ Redesigning Google News for everyone]</cite>" to the "See Also" section of /Google_News
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tantek interesting, I'm seeing a bunch of 404s from pages that Google News search results link to
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tantek whoa they moved everything older than a month or so to "Archive Search"!
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tantek Google News << [https://www.google.com/#q=indieweb&tbm=nws&tbs=ar:1 Google News Archive Search for indieweb]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://www.google.com/#q=indieweb&tbm=nws&tbs=ar:1 Google News Archive Search for indieweb]" to the "See Also" section of /Google_News
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@fletcher0xFF @oevl If it makes sense, my goal is to use silos like YouTube/Facebook/etc as a place to publish from the #indieweb, not a place to create. (twitter.com/_/status/882007128524734469)
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