#indieweb 2017-07-06

2017-07-06 UTC
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billbennettnz Yes, indiewebify.me is the reason I'm asking. I didn't think it was vital to have an email address to get the whole indieweb ball rolling. Thanks.
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gRegorLove Yeah, we need to improve that to show optional things you can add, only validating the minimal h-card
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tantek probably good to file an indiewebify issue to track that, encouraging adding / moving existing contact info on your site into your h-card, rather than suggesting any new work of adding new contact methods
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gRegorLove Filed https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/66
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Loqi [gRegorLove] #66 Improve h-card validator
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billbennettnz Yes, that makes sense to me. The way it is laid out and organised is near perfect, but that lends an air of authority to the suggestions that may go a little too far at the moment
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Loqi [superfeedr] "My grill is now updating its own site via #micropub, posting to Twitter and Micro.blog. #Indieweb" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-07-05 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/my-grill-is-now-updating-its-own-website-via-micropub
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mblaney been catching up on summit videos. thanks to everyone involved in recording them and getting them online.
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mblaney everyone++
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Loqi everyone has 2 karma in this channel (8 overall)
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tboy Hello
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mblaney hi tboy
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sknebel good morning!
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Loqi guten morgen
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mblaney I wonder if channel joins and exits are really that useful. in terms of representing value as signal/noise.
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mblaney hi sknebel!
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cweiske mblaney, I've disabled their display in my client
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petermolnar morning al
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petermolnar l
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mblaney cweiske I tend to read the web version and only open a client to write.
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sknebel mblaney: having a checkbox to hide them in the weblogs sounds like a good idea - file a bug ;)
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sknebel (should also be quite easy to do, since it's probably just changing some CSS around)
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mblaney sknebel yes was just checking their markup... they don't have an h-entry class so could add some custom css ;-)
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mblaney ahh they have .msg-join so that's easy.
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sknebel has anyone looked into deduplicating RSVPs from different sources? For IWS you guys did it manually, right? (aaronpk?)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Giving myself a quick break by reading Lukas Rosenstock's monthly review, and coming away with a few thoughts. One is that Lukas is brave, as" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-04 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/giving-myself-a-quick-break-by-reading-lukas-rosenstocks-monthly
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sknebel (messing with a site HWC Berlin again, the sketch had RSVP displays but I'd need to integrate and deduplicate at least medium.com to make it work (even if I just want to show a count for the external ones))
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sknebel (meetup.com, not medium of course)
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tantek sknebel - wrote a little about deduplication of RSVPs on /rsvps
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[renem] Hi, I need some help to get IndieAuth working again for my site. It worked some days ago but now I get a "Error retrieving https://renem.net" when signing in.
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[renem] Im in doubt that i changed anything regarding auth or tokens.
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[renem] Any Tipps?
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cweiske that sounds more like a http connection problem
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sknebel [renem]: well, my browser also says "server not found" for https://renem.net
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cweiske works here
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cweiske but webmention.io has the same problem: https://webmention.io/renem.net/webmention/-4BJL_Xo4g_ZvNXUx0pF
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sknebel my server also can't reach it. I see 46.38.225.230 as the IP
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sknebel eh, no wrong line: 54.93.37.149
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sknebel ok, other server it works as well. seems like not-completed DNS propagation?
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sknebel [renem]: did you move to another server or something that'd cause your IP to change?
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cweiske https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/renem.net
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cweiske many different IPs are reported
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[renem] I switched to Netlify for hosting and DNS a few weeks ago. But it worked directly after the switch, because I tested this back then.
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[renem] @sknebel Wait, your browser? So you can't even access the "normal" site via a browser. Works for me but sounds so strange.
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sknebel [renem]: yes, one of my servers can curl the site, everything else doesn't get anything
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petermolnar what is backfilling?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "backfilling" yet. Would you like to create it?
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petermolnar how do you redirect to an existing entry?
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cweiske is /fo
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[renem] @sknebel I opened a support request at Netlify and hope they can help and point me in the right direction
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sknebel [renem]: please report back when you hear anything. I've been considering Netlify for a project, so interested in how they handle issues
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jeremycherfas Good morning.
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sknebel good morning jeremycherfas!
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jeremycherfas Hi Sknebel
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jeremycherfas Trying to Favourite a post on kevin marks’ stream, I get an error from Quill: Your endpoint did not return a Location header. See Creating a Micropub Endpoint for more information.
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jeremycherfas First time I’ve ever seen that error. And nothing has changed at my end.
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jeremycherfas What now?
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sknebel jeremycherfas: did it create a post?
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jeremycherfas Nope.
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cweiske then maybe something is in the server logs
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sknebel hm... did quill show the error message from your endpoint? I forget what quill shows in that case
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jeremycherfas I just did it by hand. But I like doing it from Quill because it adds the nifty star icon. Which distinguishes Favorites from Bookmarks, sort of.
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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sknebel good morning Zegnat!
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Zegnat I think it is time to do some more selfauth work today. What issue should be fixed first?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Why the indieweb" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-06 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/why-the-indieweb
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sknebel Zegnat: sorry, not sure. haven't kept up (I know I still owe you a code review, but I'm currently travelling and haven't found the peace and quiet while being awake enough to do it properly)
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sketchess Good morning / evening. :)
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sknebel morning
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sknebel jeremycherfas: did you find anything in logs or so?
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sketchess Zegnat, if you are not around.... who work with him on the self-auth?
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jeremycherfas The honest truth, skenbel, is that I am a bit busy to open Terminal, download loags, look for something interesting, etc etc.
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jeremycherfas See how busy I am; I can’t even type straight.
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sknebel jeremycherfas: oh, sure, no problem, just wanted to check
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sketchess My server is not happy with it. I am getting a warning.
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Zegnat sketchess: ben_thatmustbeme, sknebel, and I are the current contributors on selfauth
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sketchess cancled the process
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Zegnat Though sebsel has also filed bugs on it. So I guess that makes 4 of us.
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Zegnat sketchess, if you were having trouble with running selfauth I would be happy to help! We need more people running it and telling us what they want to see fixed :)
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sketchess Currently I have no option to generate and probably connect securely, Zegnat.
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sketchess So I stoped moving forward.
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sketchess My Server warns me about getting compromised.
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Zegnat Your server warns you about getting compromised how? When you access selfauth? There shouldn’t be anything in there that can cause warnings.
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sketchess The setup.php caused the trouble as soon as I tried opend it. Till than everything worked just fine.
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sknebel caused a server warning? .oO... (some browsers might complain about the password field on an HTTP connection, but server-side I have no idea)
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Zegnat rechecks setup.php code
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Zegnat No, there shouldn’t be anything in there to upset a server. sketchess if you can tell us what the exact error is I would love to check it out
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sketchess Normally my apache lets me access files in secure mode, but your files are getting displayed differently. It just shows the code and that was it. If I open it out of my secure envionment it runs the set-up, but I am getting the errors. Which does not surprise me, because it is not protected.
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sknebel secure mode = over HTTPS?
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sketchess wait a second
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sketchess Yes https, as long as I operate directly out of my Admin account. I myself does not have any.
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sketchess Let me try to chatch the error.
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sketchess -h
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Zegnat Even just a screenshot could help us understand what is going on
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sketchess I correct myself, my apache will not run it in the secure environment and my browser spits out warnings. First it looked like my sever does it directly, if I tried to type in.
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Zegnat And by “secure environment” you mean HTTPS? “secure environment” means nothing to me, and apache is not doing anything different between HTTPS and HTTP. The only difference between the two is the connection between you (the browser) and your website (the server).
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sketchess Out of the technical point of view you are right.
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sketchess Out of the personal point of view, I will have to find a solution.
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Zegnat So you go to https://example.com/selfauth/setup.php and then you get warnings from your browser? What sort of warning?
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sketchess Not secure. Of course not secure. All my little set-ups are not worth anything, because they do not apply. *Sigh*
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sketchess Wait what? No, no I do not go to this address and get a warning.
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Zegnat I thought you said you got a warning when you go to setup.php on your site?
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Zegnat (I of course don’t know exactly where you put the file on your site, so I used example.com as… an example.)
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sketchess And what does your link have any to do with it?
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sketchess I do not understand.
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sketchess Probably a good time for a lunch break, I got very hungry.
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sketchess If you have a tip on how I could access the setup.php securly from outside, feel free to post it. I further try to put my head around it myself. I do not remember the three letters as we discussed encryption.^^
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sketchess heads for lunch
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Zegnat You just put it on a website and then you go to it in your browser. Preferably you can go through HTTPS. There is nothing else you have to do security wise.
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Zegnat !tell sketchess if you can, I still would love to see exactly what warnings you get for the selfauth setup. You can copy the text into a gist.github.com or put a screenshot on imgur.com. I have tested selfauth with both HTTP and HTTPS connections and have never seen any warnings.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Nice @withknown import tool improved, going to test Known to Known import & see how it goes :)" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-07-06 https://www.rmendes.net/2017/nice-withknown-import-tool-improved-going-to-test-known-to
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sketchess re
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Loqi sketchess: Zegnat left you a message 1 hour, 8 minutes ago: if you can, I still would love to see exactly what warnings you get for the selfauth setup. You can copy the text into a gist.github.com or put a screenshot on imgur.com. I have tested selfauth with both HTTP and HTTPS connections and have never seen any warnings.
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Zegnat Hmm, annoying that Loqi seems to be having !tell problems
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Zegnat sketchess: if you can, I still would love to see exactly what warnings you get for the selfauth setup. You can copy the text into a gist.github.com or put a screenshot on imgur.com. I have tested selfauth with both HTTP and HTTPS connections and have never seen any warnings.
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sketchess There are still the chat logs Zegnat. ;)
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petermolnar sketchess you said you have apache. do you have mod_php ?
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sketchess How would I recognize it petermolnar?
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sketchess And I disagree with you Zegnat out of a users point of view. There is always a other way to reach a goal.
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petermolnar sketchess it seems like you lack fundamental knowledge to run a web service. A PHP file is not a static text, it need to be executed by the PHP binary. Please read a book or look for articles on this (suggestion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAMP_%28software_bundle%29 ) and come back when you know how to run PHP.
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Zegnat sketchess, what did I say that you disagree with?
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, weird, aaronpk note the loqi !tell failure this morning
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sketchess Looks like I will maneuver myself into a 'Déjà-vu', but this time I will not do the balancing act to have a split conversation.
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petermolnar sketchess unless you give a screenshot, an error log, and output, nobody can help you, it's that simple
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sketchess If you keep judging me petermolnar, we won't become friends.
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petermolnar lol wat
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petermolnar I was stating, not judging
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petermolnar you're not providing info what we could debug
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petermolnar so we can't help
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petermolnar end of story
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sketchess I will come back to you Zegnat.
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sketchess I will not continue the conversation with you peter, so you have to excuse me.
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sketchess I wish a nice day everyone.
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gRegorLove Loqi's tell made it to the logs, but not IRC. Something is up, also applies to wiki edits.
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aaronpk see #indieweb-meta
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petermolnar I've just realized wordpress.com has publicize - a posse plugin - available on every wp.com blog
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petermolnar it might worth telling gen3 and 4 if they ever ask
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petermolnar probably the simplest way to get started
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petermolnar and since it's wp, the data can be exported
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tantek what is Publicize
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Publicize" yet. Would you like to create it?
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snarfed tantek: thanks for https://indieweb.org/rsvps#How_to_de-duplicate !
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snarfed out of curiosity, it seems pretty much the same as https://indieweb.org/deduplication , right?
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tantek not at all!
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snarfed i get that it's maybe more important for rsvps, for attendee counting, and the silos are different, eg tito...but implementation at least seems similar
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tantek because it makes assumptions about a person being only able to attend an event in person as one entity :)
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tantek as opposed to # of posts
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tantek snarfed yes I started documenting it because it's a problem I'm about to run into very soon
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snarfed right. i think we're agreeing. the use case is somewhat different and higher priority, but the implementation is probably the same
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tantek wait what no
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snarfed great!
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tantek author de-duping vs post de-duping. very different
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snarfed ahhh ok
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tantek yeah! it's a really interesting exceptional case we haven't built yet!
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snarfed there isn't really much (any?) post de-duping in the wild yet either :P
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snarfed there are also infrequent cases where one person RSVPs multiple times, e.g. on behalf of other people - i've done that on event silos before - but not important
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[davidmead] snarfed: what does brid.gy look for on a blog for webmentions?
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tantek snarfed, for IWS we saw one person RSVP multiple times for themselves, never for others
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tantek multiple such occurances
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tantek davidmead, depends on what you're trying to do - sound like a #indieweb-dev question :)
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snarfed right
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Jeena I'm thinking about h-feed readers, should they always assume that the content in it is just a summary and get the whole content from the permalink? Or is there some way to decide if you already have everything?
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snarfed sounds like a general feed reader question, regardless of feed format (h-feed vs rss etc)
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snarfed precedent is, most current readers show content in feed by default, but many also have an easy way to load and show full page (permalink) instead
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Zegnat I think you should go check the permalink for canonical content always. Though I don’t remember any prior discussion about it. It was discussed regarding threaded comments though: when parsing a list of comments on someone else’s website you should query the comment’s permalink instead of trusting the list you find. Or something like that.
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Zegnat Re Jeena
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Richard, it's early, but at last weekend's IndieWeb Summit in Portland, a small group of us started tinkering on what we hope could be the" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-29 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/richard-its-early-but-at-last-weekends-indieweb-summit-in
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Excited for day two of #IWS2017! Starting off by helping attendees get started with @WordPress and #IndieWeb." by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-25 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/excited-for-day-two-of-iws2017-starting-off-by-helping
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Loqi [superfeedr] "I had an amazing time at #IWS2017. Excited for the future of the open web! #IndieWeb" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-06-26 https://cleverdevil.io/2017/i-had-an-amazing-time-at-iws2017-excited-for-the
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Jeena So, interesting, the indie-map visualizes our community almost exactly like the TV series black-mirror visualizes the social network of the main character in the episode Nosedown https://jeena.net/t/indieweb-blackmirror.png
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Zegnat what is video?
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Loqi video is a type of post where the primary content is a video file (recorded movie, animation etc.) typically with audio, and has growing support on the indie web https://indieweb.org/video
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Zegnat sebsel go add yourself ^^^
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sebsel hehe, but my first one is already a while ago
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Zegnat It was? I think this was the first one I noticed.
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sebsel They break my new /photos layout, so I guess I need to make a /videos for them
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sebsel There you go :) https://seblog.nl/videos with both the old one and today's https://seblog.nl/2017/07/06/2/bliksem
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Zegnat video feed, definitely needs to go on /video now
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sebsel added :)
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Zegnat sebsel++
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Loqi sebsel has 21 karma in this channel (29 overall)
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snarfed Jeena++ funny
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Loqi jeena has 39 karma in this channel (48 overall)
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billbennettnz Is woodwind.xyz working? Every URL I enter gives a server error, doesn't matter I've tried with and without http:// just in case
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billbennettnz Is woordwind.xyz working? Every URL I try gives a server error, that's with or without http://
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billbennettnz Ah... the first message did get through, just took it's time showing up
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tantek billbennettnz: I'm seeing "Internal Server Error" is that what you see?
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tantek catches up on logs
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billbennettnz Yes. I guess it COULD be overload, but I doubt it's that busy
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Loqi [superfeedr] "You knew you were tired, but then where are your friends tonight?" by Mike Sugarbaker on 2014-12-03 http://gibberish.com/2014/12/03/you-knew-you-were-tired-but-then-where-are-your
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Loqi [superfeedr] "There is no front-end web development crisis" by Mike Sugarbaker on 2016-06-22 http://gibberish.com/2016/06/22/there-is-no-front-end-web-development-crisis
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snarfed yes, woodwind has been flaky for the last few months
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snarfed https://kylewm.com/2017/06/in-case-you-were-wondering-why-woodwind-xyz-and-silo
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] In case you were wondering why woodwind.xyz and silo.pub were down for ages, the database had finally filled up the disk. I eventually willed myself out of entropy and wrote a cron job to delete entries older than a year (or more than 2000th in their...
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tantek oh wow
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tantek lol gRegorLove
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gRegorLove Woodwind loads for me, but hasn't updated posts since about 9 days ago
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billbennettnz Might take a look at another time then...
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gRegorLove Just tried to manually poll from the Subscriptions page of Woodwind "Polling failed!"
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tantek Readers are hard, let's keep writing :)
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gRegorLove I wonder if Jeena made any progress getting a copy of Woodwind up and running
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gRegorLove tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 220 karma in this channel (364 overall)
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tantek meyerweb++ for http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/dencoder/ which is helpful for encoding emoji for placing in URLs
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Loqi meyerweb has 1 karma
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gRegorLove Which reminds me, I thought about writing an intro to microformats post. I forget what conversation gave me that idea, but someone was confused by the prefixes
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gRegorLove will start working on that this evening
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snarfed gRegorLove: https://microformats.io/ ?
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Loqi Microformats
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gRegorLove https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-07-03#t1499071422504000
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Loqi [Zegnat] I think I saw an issue for microformats.io saying we need a simple primer on that
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tantek no matter how simple you make things, there can always be a simpler way and explanation
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gRegorLove microformats.io is definitely great for testing the parsers and some examples, but I was thinking more "what do these prefixes mean?" or "what does p-author h-card mean and why is it on the same element?"
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billbennettnz Microformats: one of the problems I have with most things indieweb is I'm not a developer, so many people here are, and there seems to be an assumption this is something for the dev community, where I reckon the appeal needs to be far wider.
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gRegorLove billbennettnz: Yeah, there's the concept of generations which we have on the wiki. It is heavily generation 1, but we're getting into gen2. Always trying to improve the onboarding process. https://indieweb.org/generations
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gRegorLove We try not to assume devs-only. We have a separate room #indieweb-dev to discuss dev stuff and /plumbing. We try to keep this main room for general indieweb and user-centric topics
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tantek gRegorLove: there's a lot of such tutorial explanations on the main microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 page, but it is a big long document. could probably use splitting up into more accessible smaller focused tutorials
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gRegorLove Feedback is definitely welcome on pain points in the user experience, billbennettnz
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tantek definitely
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gRegorLove tantek: Will definitely go through that stuff first, and aaronpk's intro session at IWS was also really good, can capture some of that in text.
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billbennettnz I'm developer literate, did coding at school in the 80s can read and hack php or CSS, but find the documentation hard going. Some of it is excellent, elsewhere there are assumptions the reader is a coder
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billbennettnz that is, I find some of the indieweb documentation hard-going
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tantek billbennettnz: re: "not a developer" - you're absolutely in the right place for that - #indieweb is for folks that want to use and be on the independent web
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tantek billbennettnz: and your observations about the "documentation" is also accurate. In fact in many places said "documentation" is little more than developer notes just to keep track of what they got working
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billbennettnz Wordpress documentation isn't perfect, but it does a good job of having three layers; simple, more engaged and hardcore.
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tantek perhaps cryptic even to most other developers!
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tantek the goal with all of such pages though is to iteratively improve their accessibility both to more devs, and beyond that, to anyone who wants to use the indieweb
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gRegorLove billbennettnz: Agreed. Is there a recent example of hard-going documentation we can work on?
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tantek I think many/most WordPress documentation started similarly cryptic and has been improved over time. So I'm hopeful we can do the same
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billbennettnz Can I get back to you the next time I find something?
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gRegorLove Certainly!
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tantek Absolutely! please do not hesitate to speak up anytime something seems confusing or unobvious in the least bit
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KartikPrabhu billbennettnz: not a developer here too! no need to worry about that while asking questions
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 4 days, 21 hours ago: what is silo account management tax?
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Retweeted this tweet: Indie Tech Rocks on Twitter: “Federated Wiki is an innovative, decentralized wiki that does not screw us #indieweb #fedwiki #wiki https://t.co/KyCgbpM7SG“" by Scott Kingery on 2017-06-30 http://techlifeweb.com/16290-2/