#indieweb 2017-07-27

2017-07-27 UTC
leg1 and jjuran joined the channel
tantek joined the channel
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tantek
hello from @MozSF!
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
Hello hwc sf
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tantek
so far just me
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tantek
I'm still working on my marathon write-up
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GWG
I'm taking a mandatory 30 minute business ethics course.
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GWG
I'm not sure how I can prevent human trafficking, but apparently I have to do that.
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tantek
for indieweb business?
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tantek
hey it's j12t
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GWG
No, just explaining why I'm not Indiewebing.
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tantek
oh dear caltrain.com is down
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tantek
"Server Error in '/' Application."
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tantek
(yes this is what we are discussing right now at HWC SF)
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@Caltrain
@SolarDaveGreen As a nation we decided we're cool with third world infrastructure.
(twtr.io/1UM3t9mDA2h)
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@IgnacioMls
#India is rolling out trains with #solar-powered coaches that’ll save thousands of liters of #diesel http://bit.ly/2uBNwDv #renewables https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFriaCLV0AESzKq.jpg
(twtr.io/1ULTG7qzHQU)
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tantek
gives Loqi a bitly
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Loqi
runs away from the bitly
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tantek
yeah that explains that
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Loqi
[Eddie Hinkle] Only me holding down the fort for the first Frederick Homebrew Website Club ? at Urbana Regional Library https://igx.4sqi.net/img/general/original/12192241_SGa8GO4vniRgvcm64hJCXxNwcJVezSTEL8SVBAwfuH8.jpg
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[eddie]
Alas, no one at Frederick, MD tonight. That’s okay. Some of the outreach I’m doing hasn’t been able to kick in until August.
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tantek
eddie++ for giving it a shot! definitely helps to have a co-organizer who will commit to showing up too
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Loqi
eddie has 13 karma in this channel (22 overall)
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@Caltrain
Site seems to be down. Grab a paper schedule onboard, download a free app, look on station displays. We're working on it. #Caltrain QT [@camilleglong] @Caltrain website has been down all day. Do you have an up to date schedule on hand?
(twtr.io/1ULuhyPpvqQ)
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tantek
This seems like an interesting nerdery opportunity, a world wide train schedules website that caches all that
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[eddie]
tantek: Thanks! Yeah, a co-organizer makes sense. At least I got a nice 2 hours of quiet coding time in ? Most personal coding time that I’ve had in the last 2 weeks
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tantek
yeah I treat it as quiet writing time myself :)
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tantek
what is the hwc logo?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "hwc logo" yet. Would you like to create it?
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travisfw
So the homebrew website club is not at Mozilla now right? All the wiki pages, including the one in the topic of this channel, say it is
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tantek
it is !
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tantek
j12t and I are here
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tantek
where are you travisfw
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travisfw
Menlo Park :( ...time... it flies like a banana.
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@EddieHinkle
Looking forward to the first ever Frederick/Urbana Homebrew Website Club! Come check it out at 7:30! http://meetu.ps/3c3CQc https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFsjNJLUQAAudOF.png
(twtr.io/1ULsiEm1Xj0)
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tantek
[eddie]: where did you get that logo ^^^
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tantek
aaronpk: have you seen that before?
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travisfw
I will have to join next month
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tantek
and now we're three!
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tantek
travisfw yes!
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tantek
I won't be here in two weeks, but hopefully benwerd or staceydepolo will organize it!
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tantek
or we'll skip Aug 9 and do it 2017-08-23 for sure
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tantek
welcome bdesham !
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bdesham
thanks tantek!
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tantek
j12t: up to 26 things on indietech.rocks!
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tantek
t: what about making it a 100 days project?
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j12t
Only 74 left to go ? :-)
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j12t
Good idea. I need help though. There are more good products out there that don't screw us, but I don't know all of them!
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tantek
and then when you get to 100 you can provide 100 alternatives. Instead of X, try the indietech alternative Y!
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tantek
j12t: still not clear which IndieWeb plugins I should be installing on a new WordPress, the list on the wiki, or searching for IndieWeb on the WordPress Plugins directory?
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tantek
t: I'm pretty sure the wiki, GWG and snarfed worked hard on that during IWS 2017
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GWG
tantek: It needs more work. Always does
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tantek
can you help answer that question as an FAQ
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tantek
ej: if you post a photo of people on the internet, you should at least tag them in it so they have the option to untag themselves. the tag lets them know that the picture is there
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tantek
and in an album ok to just tag people in a few, figuring they'll notice and look through the album if they care
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tantek
t: for indieweb photos, would you prefer if "indieweb posted a photo of you" or "tantek posted a photo of you"?
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tantek
all: personal
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tantek
ej: either way if I care I'll just untag myself
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tantek
ej: congrats to t for getting events working on his site!
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tantek
ej: next - invite more people, and then personally message them - it was effective
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tantek
j12t: does anyone POSSE to Reddit?
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tantek
t: did you check the wiki? ;) /Reddit
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tantek
aaronpk didn't you manually POSSE to Reddit? or was that Hacker News?
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tantek
what is Hacker News?
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Loqi
Hacker News is a bookmark posting silo as well as a silo for comments on those links https://indieweb.org/Hacker_News
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tantek
what is Reddit?
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Loqi
Reddit is a link aggregator and bulletin board site where community members may submit links and text posts, vote on the submitted entries, and post comments on them https://indieweb.org/Reddit
DanC joined the channel
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tantek
t: what's the difference?
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tantek
ej: Reddit is much wider in scope and many more people use it
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tantek
(previously: t demo'd indie events and RSVPs - wrapping even)
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tantek
Reddit << [[Hacker News]]
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Hacker News]]" to the "See Also" section of /Reddit
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tantek
Hacker News << [[Reddit]]
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Reddit]]" to the "See Also" section of /Hacker_News
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tantek
j12t: I got a warning message from Reddit for posting too many links from the same few domains
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tantek
t: please screenshot that and upload it to the wiki!
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tantek
t: does anyone use Tumblr at all?
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tantek
ej: I just don't understand it
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tantek
ej: the blogging aspect makes sense with templates and such. the reblogging does not make sense to me.
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tantek
ej: the reblogging thing does not make sense to me
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tantek
bdesham: I heard not having comments on tumblr was a deliberate design, to avoid abuse, so to comment you have to reblog?
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tantek
ej: I have a hard time understanding how this content has traveled
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tantek
j12t++
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Loqi
j12t has 10 karma in this channel (11 overall)
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tantek
bdesham: maybe they redirect based on site-global post IDs?
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tantek
t (tries) - works without the slug
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tantek
but not when you change the x.tumblr
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bdesham
Twitter works like this: the URL includes a username and a post ID, but if you change the username to something else then the link still works
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bdesham
you just get redirected to the URL with the correct username
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tantek
yes! the Loqi tweet permalinks here use that fact
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tantek
j12t: maybe once a quarter we could do HWC connected with other cities
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tantek
t (previously) new recent cities: Frederick, Maryland
jjuran, strugee, tantek, eli_oat1 and gRegorLove joined the channel
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@falcon_autotech
You all are welcome to Falcon Stand at #IWS2017
(twtr.io/1UMT3NF_c54)
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@falcon_autotech
Mr.Naman Jain giving demo of #picktolight #puttolight to Customer at #IWS2017 https://twitter.com/falcon_autotech/status/890449258234695680/photo/1
(twtr.io/1UMWHutR4ML)
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KartikPrabhu
TheGillies: what's that?
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TheGillies
KartikPrabhu: A method I'm coming up with for sharing signed social data regardless of platform
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TheGillies
I'm using ipfs currently because It's not bound to a particular host
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TheGillies
but any uri would work
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KartikPrabhu
TheGillies: maybe start with documenting the use-case. I don't read Ruby so I had no idea what that does or tries to solve
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TheGillies
in the triple: <urn:ipfs:QmYJXcwDU72gQDSbNFo41Z7sLJU9LVivRx485r41owmXWY> <http://xmlns.com/wot/0.1/assurance> <urn:ipfs:QmbdooNUQM3efGjPByB485CicqZFZRbxFGCmauzJkUEAbb> .
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TheGillies
, the first URI is an entity that contains a description of me, that includes a link to my public pgp key, the third URI is a link to the detached signature of that data
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TheGillies
it's essentially a signed h-card but in rdf turtle instead of microformats
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TheGillies
here is the URL for the description data: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmYJXcwDU72gQDSbNFo41Z7sLJU9LVivRx485r41owmXWY for example.
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sknebel
so you publish a signed document about you, thus linking your key to what you claim is your contact info? and if I can match your key via one of these ways of contacting you I know it's really your document?
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TheGillies
sknebel: yep
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TheGillies
rdf + ipfs doesn't use microformats or my own custom domain but I own the data I publish and people can contact me. so I wonder how far you can stretch 'indie' before it's no longer 'indie'
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TheGillies
i wonder if anyone has made an indie rdf vocab so I could use a webmention predicate
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TheGillies
actually webmention spec looks like it uses rel=http://webmention.org/ so probably better to use that URI
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TheGillies
<urn:pgp:D2A544091FA322EFDA4E919B1E3F141005B84A46:tyler> <http://webmention.org/> <http://my-webmention-backend.example> .
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Zegnat
I thought the spec stopped using a URL as rel-value?
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Zegnat
Good morning IndieWeb!
jjuran and [acegiak_net] joined the channel
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[acegiak_net]
Ok! I did it! I updated the GitHub repo for my WordPress posse plugin, including how I posse to WordPress. Needs composer
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Loqi
[acegiak] quickposse
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich]
acegiak++ for quickposse updates
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Loqi
acegiak has 32 karma
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[chrisaldrich]
It's been a while since we've seen you; hope all is well!
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[acegiak_net]
It is! I'm just a super busy lady ?
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[chrisaldrich]
BTW, there's a shiny new Indieweb #wordpress channel if you hadn't discovered it in chat/IRC/Slack...
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[acegiak_net]
Oh! I hadn't seen that!
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[chrisaldrich]
It's often quiet in the overnight hours when the Americas are usually asleep, but it's been pretty busy in the past month or so since it launched.
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[acegiak_net]
Neat! I need to look into what stuff I can use to get people set up quickly because most of my stuff is pretty custom jury rigged stuff
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[acegiak_net]
But I have friends who are keen but not as technical as me
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG, pfefferle, miklb, et al discussed a lot of that at IWS 2017 and have been making some useful headway towards conglomerating some of the various plugins.
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[chrisaldrich]
This week I've been making some outlines for improving not only documentation, but actually making some walk through videos for indieweb-ifying wordpress sites.
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[acegiak_net]
Neato!
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[chrisaldrich]
somehow I'd never run across quickposse, but will have to check it out.d
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[chrisaldrich]
Has whisperfollow made any progress of late?
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[chrisaldrich]
I'd been meaning to recommend PressForward to you as an interesting built in RSS reader, though it needs some better UI for the indieweb webmention portions.
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[acegiak_net]
Um probably? I probably haven't updated the repo with my latest versions
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[acegiak_net]
I've been trying to work out how I can make WhisperFollow work with Twitter better so that it can show tweets as close to real time as possible but still work with the rest of my Fred
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[acegiak_net]
Feed*
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jeremycherfas
Morning IndieWeb
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[chrisaldrich]
I know it's been over a year since I've looked at the whisperfollow code. Building an integrated reader into wordpress certainly isn't easy or trivial.
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[acegiak_net]
No and I was new to WordPress when I started so I made some weird decisions
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jeremycherfas
Acegiak_net: What does quickposse permit?
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[chrisaldrich]
I did notice that the edublogs hosted WP site had an integrated reader last week, but I ahven't been able to dig into what they're using for implementing it.
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[chrisaldrich]
good morning jeremycherfas!
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jeremycherfas
Hey Chrisaldrich. Up late?
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[chrisaldrich]
What is edublogs?
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Loqi
edublogs is a hosted custom version of WordPress geared toward students, teachers, and educational institutions https://indieweb.org/edublogs
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[acegiak_net]
jeremycherfas it does posse to Instagram, Twitter and Tumblr
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[chrisaldrich]
Yes, I've been trying to finish writing a handful of pieces since I skipped HWC tonight. Thought I'd do a marathon quiet writing hour(s).
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[chrisaldrich]
What is quickposse?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "quickposse" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[acegiak_net]
Quickposse is a WordPress plugin that posse syndicates posts to Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram
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jeremycherfas
Acegiak; thanks. Interesting chat last night at virtual HWC about Tumblr and about onboarding to WP. I think video walkthroughs of setups will be very valuable chrisaldrich
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[chrisaldrich]
I've also just finished a rather long piece about What Indieweb is for AltPlatform.org that will publish likely on Friday.
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[chrisaldrich]
jeremycherfas do you have a favorite screencapture software for video walkthroughs?
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[chrisaldrich]
I've been looking at a few before diving in on my outlines.
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[acegiak_net]
I was using Tumblr extensively before getting into indieweb stuff so it was the first thing I worked on. Now I'm using more Twitter i want to work on my Twitter integration
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[acegiak_net]
Getting videos to posse to Twitter was pretty exciting the other day
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jeremycherfas
I did, but it has been a VERY long time. I think it was called Clearly. Let me check.
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[chrisaldrich]
acegiak have you looked at any of the other POSSE options for WP? Compared/contrasted?
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[acegiak_net]
I use OBS for streaming and it's not bad for capturing either
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[chrisaldrich]
A compare/contrast post on that is something that might be worth a long post shortly. I think I've tried most of the bigger options at one point or another.
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[chrisaldrich]
I've seen lots of OBS references (esp for gaming capture), so it's definitely on my list.
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[acegiak_net]
I think at the time I started writing quickposse it was because the other options wouldn't handle Tumblr reblogs and replying to tweets
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[acegiak_net]
Quickposse integrates with the metadata fields from the post-kinds plugin
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[chrisaldrich]
Thanks Jeremy, that actually looks pretty interesting.
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jeremycherfas
It does a great job.
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[chrisaldrich]
Ohhh... that sounds promising. I'm a big fan of post-kinds integrations.
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[chrisaldrich]
Though that reminds me Ashton. I played around with your Last.fm scrobbler plugin for a bit back in December.
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[acegiak_net]
Oh! Neat!
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[acegiak_net]
My biggest problem has been finding a good scrobbling app for my phone
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[chrisaldrich]
It did a nice job of pulling in data, and I could have sworn I recall the documentation saying it dovetailed with Post Kinds, but don't remember it doing so as seamlessly as I would have imagined.
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[acegiak_net]
Oh, interesting
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[chrisaldrich]
I put it on hold temporarily because I scrobble so much music I wasn't sure I wanted to turn it on just yet on my production site...
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[chrisaldrich]
I feel like I have to answer that question first (or figure out how to properly display it and the feeds) so it's not bothering everyone.
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[acegiak_net]
Yeah, I specifically have been trying to make those kinds of microposts as unobtrusive as possible, it's really tricky
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[chrisaldrich]
I think Facebook even gave up on some of that because they can be obnoxious if not done properly.
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[acegiak_net]
Yeah, one thing I was trying to encourage was filtering in feed readers
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[chrisaldrich]
I remember seeing your implementation looking/working as I expected, but I don't remember it populating the Post Kind fields the way I expected, though all the data was pushed through.
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[chrisaldrich]
I'd have to take a look at it again on my test site, which should still be collecting the data/scrobbles for the day when I want to move them over.
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[chrisaldrich]
What phone do you use?
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[acegiak_net]
When I'm at home off this train I'll check the repo is up to date
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[acegiak_net]
I'm SO mad at YouTube for removing API access to watch history so I can't scrobble that data anymore
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[acegiak_net]
I use a htc10. I've been a HTC fan since working in a phone Shop
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[chrisaldrich]
I think I've got the native Last.fm app on my Android and most of the sub-apps I use for audio typically have scrobble capability that is controllable.
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[acegiak_net]
Yeah the last.FM app for me stops scrobbling on reboot
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[chrisaldrich]
I did just switch to Amazon Music for a bit, but haven't looked at whether that scrobbles properly yet.
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[acegiak_net]
I use Google music so it might be that?
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[chrisaldrich]
And yes the youtube API non-sense was annoying. I've switched to a janky thumbs-up to IFTTT workaround temporarily for those /watch type posts, but generally I save them on my back end and don't show them publicly at the moment.
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[chrisaldrich]
I typically use Spotify the most and that seems to scrobble through without any problems on Android.
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[chrisaldrich]
Somehow I have two last.fm accounts for some quirky reason and I keep meaning to check if they'll concatenate the two into one account for me.
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[chrisaldrich]
I suspect they wouldn't, without data loss of some type or another, but who knows?
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[chrisaldrich]
Alright kids, it's time to hit the hay. I've got an early morning in 4 hours....
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[chrisaldrich]
Good to see you both acegiak and jeremycherfas. Have a good night!
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jeremycherfas
Hope you get some good sleep.
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[acegiak_net]
Night, Chris!
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[chrisaldrich]
The better to read your posts in the morning! (I still have a nice backlog of eatthispodcast episodes to plow through...)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Reply to Introducing Speed of Light Discussions by Jason Brennan" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-07-27 http://boffosocko.com/2017/07/27/reply-to-introducing-speed-of-light-discussions-by-jason-brennan/
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petermolnar
the android spotify app has scrobbling built-in without last.fm app
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Zegnat
But can you point it at your own server, petermolnar?
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petermolnar
this is where pesos comes in
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Loqi
[id0x3d] lastexport: Simple script to make export from last.fm to .scrobble.log file, that you can apply to another account
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Zegnat
I don’t really want to bother with Last.fm being in between me and my data. I will figure out something else. QuodLibet can scrobble straight to me on PC
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petermolnar
that's the exception, more or less
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petermolnar
if you have a rooted phone you can rewrite the last.fm host and redirect the traffic
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petermolnar
or do the same with a proxy
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petermolnar
unless it's sent from the spotify servers and not your client
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Zegnat
I’ll survive, not using Spotify atm anyway. Was mostly just wondering :)
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jeremycherfas
Morning petermolnar.
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jeremycherfas
Fter you left last night we were talking about Tumblr, and someone said that maybe you had a script to extract all of your posts from there.
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Zegnat
That was me. I didn’t have your GitHub at hand but it seemed like a very you project, petermolnar ;)
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petermolnar
yep, that was me
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petermolnar
I pesos my favs from tumblr
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jeremycherfas
Ah. I’ve been locked out of tumblr since forever and thought I might at some point want to download everything from there.
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petermolnar
there are a few working tumblr->wordpress importers
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jeremycherfas
Yes. We talked a bit about those. I could get into WP and then get out of there.
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petermolnar
apparently there is for jekyll as well: http://import.jekyllrb.com/docs/tumblr/
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Zegnat
Hmm. If I write a blogpost that was triggered by reading another blogpost, would that be a reply? I seem to vaguely recall a discussion about this
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jeremycherfas
I’m treating it like that, yes.
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sknebel
good morning!
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sknebel
Zegnat: good question, IMHO really depends
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jeremycherfas
Morning sknebel.
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jeremycherfas
Depends on what? I mean, is there an alternative mf2 that it could be instead?
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sknebel
could be just a mention
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jeremycherfas
What is a mention?
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Loqi
A mention is a post which links to another post without explicitly being in response to it https://indieweb.org/mention
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sknebel
so without special markup
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jeremycherfas
So no webmention sent to the inspiring post?
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cweiske
why not? I do that all the time
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cweiske
that is, my linkback server is doing that for me
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sknebel
jeremycherfas: webmentions don't care if a link is a property or not
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sknebel
they normally get sent for all links
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jeremycherfas
Hang on. Cweiske: you send a webmention to a url that has no special markup at your end. Why?
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sknebel
you normally sent webmentions to everything you link to
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jeremycherfas
This is particularly interesting to me right now because I have just written a long post that was certainly inspired by another post, but isn’t directly a reply to it.
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jeremycherfas
I marked it up as u-in-reply-to
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sebsel
jeremycherfas The whole idea about web**mention** is that if you mention someone, you send one, right?
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sknebel
webmentions as is also are totally unrelated to microformats, that's all just built on top
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sebsel
I often mention Bridgy, (like on 5eb.nl/4nH6), and while it's no special mention, I just send a webmention for it
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sebsel
Yeah, it's just saying "this page contains a link to your page"
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sebsel
That's why everyone can send it for you.
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sebsel
s/everyone/anyone
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jeremycherfas
Right. My question was, is there a special markup for “this is not a rely, but it is a mention”?
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sebsel
Nope, just a link
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jeremycherfas
Cool. Thanks for clarifying.
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cweiske
the same we had with pingback
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cweiske
just send a notification it to all linked pages
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sebsel
My endpoint rejects anything that has no microformats, maybe I should change that.
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sebsel
But it's an extra spam prevention
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sebsel
More work for the bots.
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sebsel
It would accept links outside of the Mf2, btw. It just needs some Mf2 object on the page.
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[kevinmarks]
I'm reading a lot on GDPR at the moment, and wondering if a 'consent' microformat makes sense
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petermolnar
Zegnat that'd be a 'read', wouldn't it?
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sknebel
sebsel: not showing them might be a compromise, but I'd at least be collecting them
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[kevinmarks]
what is consent?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "consent" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel
what is GDPR?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "GDPR" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel
[kevinmarks]: we had a discussion about licensing for webmention display etc in Nürnberg, should be on video
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Zegnat
read is an interesting idea petermolnar
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petermolnar
what is read?
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Loqi
To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents; on the IndieWeb, a read post expresses that something has been read, like a book or section thereof https://indieweb.org/read
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Zegnat
"I read post a and b and this made me think of ..."
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petermolnar
interesting, though; 'read', 'listened', 'scrobble', etc, these are essentially log entriy
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petermolnar
when type what
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sknebel
petermolnar: would have been my interpretation as well, and the current implementations afaik are like that, but...
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sknebel
one downside might be display on the other side
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sknebel
not sure if people hide or facepile reads
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sknebel
Loqi--
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Loqi
loqi has 60 karma in this channel (434 overall)
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[kevinmarks]
what is GDPR?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "GDPR" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[kevinmarks]
GDPR is the EU General Data Protection Regulation which sets much tighter guidelines on use of personally identifiable information, and is backed by law, including fines for non-compliance.
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-reform/overview-of-the-gdpr/introduction/" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR
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Zegnat
GDPR is interesting in that it may cover PID from h-cards. So you are not allowed to just start collecting h-cards in a nickcache.
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[kevinmarks]
well '9(2)(e) – Processing relates to personal data manifestly made public by the data subject' is a consent exemption
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[kevinmarks]
so if publishing an h-card is manifestly making data public…
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petermolnar
uhm... "So you are not allowed to just start collecting h-cards in a nickcache" so... what about my contacts in my radicale server?
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Zegnat
Good question petermolnar. Actually, I think those may already be covered by some laws in some countries.
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[kevinmarks]
you may be in breach
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petermolnar
am I still allowed to keep a contacts handwritten book?
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Loqi
ok, I added "/2017/Nuremberg/law" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR
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sebsel
meh, wikisyntax
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Zegnat
petermolnar, that’s actually a big part of it. A while back I looked into recording phone conversations under Swedish law. Some people pointed out that you would only be allowed to record the audiowaves straight to tape because any digital format would fall under PUL (the PID protection law here) as soon as someone mentions their name in the call.
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petermolnar
I'm going to say it: I don't care. I want to protect my arse as well when it comes to, for example, calls with my bank.
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks] wait, there are consent exemptions? I thought there always needed to be specified consent? Especially since consent must also be withdrawable.
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@rMdes_
Wow now WoodWind allow to read & share from one single interface, connected to my #indieweb instance? :)))
(twtr.io/1UMuioSX1ps)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Wow now WoodWind allow to read &amp; share from one single interface, connected to my #indieweb instance? :)))" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-07-27 https://www.rmendes.net/2017/wow-now-woodwind-allow-to-read-amp-share-from-one
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Zegnat
I also wonder if or how web statistics are going to be effected, as GDPR also seems to label IP addresses as personal data
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petermolnar
how _logs_ will be affected
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petermolnar
whoever decided this have not actually fought ssh bruteforcing bots
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Zegnat
KevinMarks that 9(2)(e) exemption is interesting. I wonder how much could be argued to go under there. Am I “manifestly” making my IP public by browsing the web, thus can never claim my IP as protected data? 9(2)(j) is also interesting which allows processing “for archiving purposes in the public interest, or scientific and historical research purp
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Zegnat
oses or statistical purposes”
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sebsel
but is a bot's IP address personal data? (and if not, how are we going to detect who's who)
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[kevinmarks]
IP addresses as PII is a bit weird. Everyone in London on Vodafone has the same IP4 address
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cweiske
you are allowed to use the IP address for technical reasons for a limited time, e.g. to combat brute force attacks
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sknebel
Yeah, and that's already the case
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cweiske
and of course IP addresses are personally identifiable information, because copyright denouncements are made based upon ip addresses only
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[kevinmarks]
GDPR << FreeMyOAuth
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[FreeMyOAuth]]" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR
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Zegnat
cweiske, that might not matter (the copyright thing) because I as controller/processor can’t do that without the involvement of an ISP. That was something that came up during https://eulawanalysis.blogspot.se/2017/01/ip-addresses-as-personal-data-cjeus.html Although that was old DPD and not GDPR.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Reading on WoodWind.xyz and sharing from it using your own blog: love #indieweb !" by Ricardo Mendes on 2017-07-27 https://www.rmendes.net/2017/reading-on-woodwindxyz-and-sharing-from-it-using-your-own
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voxpelli
The discussion on YouTube closing History API access and the discussion and GDPR link very well, just added a note on GDPR Data Portability: https://indieweb.org/GDPR#Data_Portability
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voxpelli
The guidelines from the EU has "the songs listened to via a music streaming service" as an example of data that's required to be portable
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voxpelli
(They interestingly also has "list of titles of books you've bought" as an example, which means the data portability goes very far)
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sknebel
Zegnat: interesting, in Germany the situation has been relatively clear on IP addresses
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Zegnat
That’s really interesting voxpelli!
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Zegnat
sknebel that case I linked is German
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voxpelli
Zegnat: yeah, pushing for MF2/IndieWeb to become the format people use for social stuff would be great, I think a lot of big companies already use Microformats to some degree (right [kevinmarks]?)
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voxpelli
Haven't looked into the Twitter, Facebook and Google exports myself really
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sknebel
Zegnat: yes, but it decided in favor of IPs being identifyable
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sknebel
Zegnat: jeremycherfas: back to replies, I like the definition on /reply: a post "that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post."
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sknebel
(I haven't followed that always, e.g. I post event writeups as replies to the event, but for responses to blogposts it makes sense to me)
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sknebel
also maybe "do I want to tell the author of the source post something?"
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jeremycherfas
Sknebel: That last point is interesting. If I want to tell the author something, I am liable to not use IndieWeb or at least to POSSE directly. That way, I can be reasonably confident they will see it.
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Zegnat
Telling the author something gets a little iffy. If my posting is spurred by something they wrote, chances are I would love them to read what I just wrote. That doesn’t make it a direct reply though.
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sknebel
"would love them to read it" isn't necessarily the same, but fair point
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[kevinmarks]
Google exports html with microformats
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[kevinmarks]
Facebook exports very vanilla html with a lot of cross linking stripped last time I checked
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[kevinmarks]
Twitter exports a single page web app
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KartikPrabhu
isn't "telling someone something" an @-mention ?
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KartikPrabhu
write a post "@-someone I wrote this thing you might be interested in" then send webmention to their homepage
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KartikPrabhu
of course assuming the @-someone is linked to the homepage
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Zegnat
Yep, but they are already getting a mention from me, as I am mentioning the fact their previous post spurred me to write
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sknebel
if it's about one of their posts, I'd say it'd fit a reply
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Zegnat
The real question is, does me saying “I just read [article by KartikPrabhu] and this made me think …” constitute as a “reply” to your article? Is it just a mention? Would it be valuable to mark up that link as something specific?
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KartikPrabhu
Zegnat: I would not think of it as a reply unless it is responding to something in the original article
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KartikPrabhu
either way seems fine depending on what you want. I still get the webmention
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[eddie]
petermolnar sknebel: right now, read/listen/watch posts show up as mentions, so the full text would appear
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bignose
even “responding to something in the article doesn't map identically to “reply to the article”.
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[eddie]
Although, facepiling is something I imagined long-term. I have posted commentary with a "watch" post
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bignose
I would say that “reply” implies an *address to* the original's author.
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bignose
if you're merely writing a post because of an original post, *without* intending to address the author; then that's IMO not a reply.
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[eddie]
Oh wow, so many posts since I went to sleep... I'll have to catch up on the log later this morning ?
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KartikPrabhu
in any case, what is the use-case for making such distinctions?
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cweiske
show it as reply on your site or not
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KartikPrabhu
cweiske: that is up to the consumer to decide
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bignose
KartikPrabhu: the distinction is important, to be clear when someone decides “this article refers to and quotes from that article, therefore I'll mark it as a reply” — the distinction shows why that's incorrect.
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KartikPrabhu
for example: my note https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/link-aware-progressive-disclosure shows up in adactio's "responses" with all the text https://adactio.com/journal/10365#comment49661 even though I did not "reply"
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Loqi
[Kartik Prabhu] Made a link-aware progressive disclosure javascript https://gist.github.com/kartikprabhu/45528a06915ac2d92b1ec83084b31b84 It is adapted from the one by @adactio ( https://adactio.com/journal/10365 ), but added a few things so that if the URL links t...
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KartikPrabhu
bignose: u-in-reply-to already does that
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KartikPrabhu
you are free to choose whether to reply or not. I am free to choose whether to follow your distinction.
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[dgold]
Woodwind seeks the deprecated ‘post’ scope, not create
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[dgold]
Have to rewrite some stuff for that, damn,
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cweiske
dgold, or you patch woodwind
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bignose
KartikPrabhu: so when you ask “what is the use-case for making such distinctions?”, who is the agent making distinctions?
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KartikPrabhu
bignose: the people discussing it here
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bignose
you seem to be thinking only of a user manually choosing whether a post is marked as a reply to another.
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bignose
while I thought Zegnat and others are discussing what distinctions an automated tool should make.
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KartikPrabhu
again that is solved by u-in-reply-to
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KartikPrabhu
if there is no u-in-reply-to then it is a mention otherwise it is a reply
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bignose
I think we're talking past one another. but I'll let Zegnat defend their position if needed.
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sebsel
is with KartikPrabhu on this
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Zegnat
bignose: I was coming from the perspective of a post author, completely separate of tooling. I read adactio’s latest post on his posting flow. It mentioned rel-me and IndieAuth. Those are subjects interesting to me. The way he wrote about it made me want to address some conceptions that are going around. My post does not read like a comment (reply)
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Zegnat
to adactio directly, but it was spurred by his post. So my question was how to mark that up. Just a mention puts it on par with all other URLs I happen to mention on the post, which feels wrong as his post was the origo for the idea. But an in-reply-to feels wrong because it applies to many more things and is not a straight-up comment.
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Zegnat
(So there is my use-case.)
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KartikPrabhu
Zegnat: my question was why does one need to distinguish it in the first place apart from "feels wrong"
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KartikPrabhu
or said another way, if adactio is not consuming it differently, why mark it up?
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Zegnat
why mark-up things like bookmark-of that many do not support yet? Because it identifies something I personally feel is important meta-data for the post.
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Zegnat
“I wrote this post because I read X” feels like valuable metadata to me. So I was asking people how they would mark that up.
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[eddie]
I definitely feel like your post Zegnat isn’t a reply. It’s something I’ve struggled with but I feel like with a “reply” the PRIMARY audience is the author of the original post
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Zegnat
Oh, that’s an interesting test for in-reply-to, [eddie]! “Is the primary audience for this entire post the author of the in-reply-to URL?”
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Zegnat
That question in my case (and probably jeremycherfas case as mentioned earlier?) is “no”.
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sknebel
supported by replies sometimes not being added to the "main stream" (e.g. aaronpk and me both by default hide replies)
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Zegnat
(KartikPrabhu, if I did all my markup based on consumers my h-card would not exist ;) )
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jeremycherfas
Just to chime in, and stress what I hinted at earlier, if the author is the primary audience for what I have to say, I would probably say it to them directly, somehow.
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[eddie]
My replies are removed from the “main stream” just like sknebel, which is why I define a reply as intended for the original author. Others CAN see it, but they aren’t necessarily GOING to see it always. Plus I can see that being handy in a reader to do something like twitter “Only show a reply IF the author and recipient are people you follow”
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[eddie]
But jeremycharfas I can see how you might want to say something important more directly to ensure delivery
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[eddie]
The same can be said for email: there are some people to whom I know they won’t really read my email, but they will read my tweet
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[eddie]
It’s the inter-personal dynamics of knowing who you are communicating with, and if you don’t know the person, then maybe a simple indie-reply is the only way that you might be able to communicate with them
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jeremycherfas
Eddie: Don’t you think that if you don’t know them, then a direct approach via one of the silos, or an email, or a comment on their site (maybe POSSEd) would be more effective at getting their attention?
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[eddie]
potentially. I guess it depends, if their site supports webmentions isn’t the goal so that eventually you don’t HAVE to rely on a silo?
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[eddie]
Obviously every person has their preferences for communication
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[eddie]
But if it’s obvious to me that a person’s site has comments listed and if I want to communicate with them regarding that post, my default is to reply to that post
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jeremycherfas
Oh, if their site supports webmentions, that’s fine. A webmention is enough. But those rmeain in a distinct minority at the moment, alas.
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[eddie]
Oh yeah if their site doesn’t support webmention, I have a choice: do I want to catalogue the reply for my future self? If so I manually POSSE. If I it’s disposable, I don’t reply via my site
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Zegnat
fully expects jeremycherfas to start running a multi-site Known installation for everyone he knows
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jeremycherfas
runs away and hides.
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Loqi
haha
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[eddie]
I also have a filter of “does this feel weird” (I know, very scientific). For example, Barry Frost bookmark’d my page, but it sent as a mention. I had to ask myself, do I reply to his bookmark to tell him it has a mf2 error?
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jeremycherfas
If I were fully retired, with no clients ever screaming for work (as they were this morning) I would definitely consider it.
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[eddie]
I decided that was ephemeral so I tweeted it
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jeremycherfas
Eddie: I think I have exactly the same filter in place.
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[barryf]
Hi Eddie (on IRC this time)! Thanks for highlighting the bug. I would have been just as happy if you had sent an indie reply, but I understand the thought process.
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[eddie]
Hey Barry ? My pleasure. it’s always helpful to me when people catch my bugs (aaronpk has caught many of them). That’s good to know. Definitely some of the choices made of when to do a “reply” will change over time for people. For example I never would have thought to reply to a bookmark before today. Today I thought of it and didn’t do it. In the future, I might just choose to
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[eddie]
(although part of my shy-ing away might also be tied to the pain of waiting for my jekyll instance to rebuild for 5 minutes)
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schmarty
shakes fist at Jekyll build times
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[eddie]
When I get instant loads with my site rebuild, I think I’ll be Indie Reply-ing a lot more
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[barryf]
Oh wow, yes I went a very long down the line with a Jekyll option for my site but when I imported thousands of bookmarks, tweets, articles, etc. I gave up with >6 min rebuilds.
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jeremycherfas
OK, enough of this soul-destroying client work. Time for a break.
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[barryf]
-- even with the incremental option
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[eddie]
haha, yep, that’s exactly where I am
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voxpelli
wants to like the likes of likes, that would be super weird and totally awesome – recursive liking, the greatness of open standards!
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voxpelli
apparently Hugo should be faster
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cweiske
how do you display a 3rd gen like?
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schmarty
aaronpk once sent me a like of a like but has since deleted it. :)
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cweiske
s/gen/level/
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[eddie]
voxpelli: I have thought of liking a like before too
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voxpelli
This got pretty much talk about it when it was written: https://www.sarasoueidan.com/blog/jekyll-ghpages-to-hugo-netlify/
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voxpelli
cweiske: on my site it would probably show as an ordinary like on the like-permapage
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schmarty
voxpelli: I want to give Hugo a try but dread porting over my templates and plugin functionality
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[eddie]
Yeah, Hugo is interesting, but I figure if I’m gonna port, I might as well port to something more dynamic, as I’d like to do some fun stuff like auto-update the page when someone adds a comment, etc.
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voxpelli
schmarty: yeah, I'm a bit sad that Hugo doesn't seems to have a full Liquid+Jekyll compatibility, but I try to stay away from plugins to ensure I more easily can move to other stuff
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schmarty
cweiske: same as voxpelli - a like of my like posts would show up on the permalink page for the like.
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voxpelli
[eddie]: one can do dynamic stuff on top of a static site, that's my philosophy. I have real time comments + Micropub on top of my jekyll site
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[eddie]
My like says I :thumbsup:‘d then the p-name of the post. So my like of a like would depend on how they p-named it
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cweiske
I don't have to compile at all when writing blog posts, because I write HTML and can open that files immediately. my "compiler" only adds menu and sidebar around the html. and my own "incremental" update process takes < 0.5s, the full rebuild for ~400 posts is at 5s currently
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[eddie]
voxpelli: Interesting. The static site/dynamic site always sends me in circles because I see the usefulness of both
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bignose
as with many apparent dichotomies, it's more accurately a spectrum.
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voxpelli
[eddie]: to me the core of my site is content and I think content is best handled in a static site that can focus on the HTML - then I add extra data on with individual self-contained services that are then easily shared with others
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[eddie]
voxpelli: Do you do markdown or html posts?
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voxpelli
I've also never been bothered with my rebuilds taking much time as I chain everything on top of build completed hooks which then does websub pings which I then subscribe to (I also have quite few posts still, so the wait isn't extreme)
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voxpelli
[eddie]: mainly Markdown, but I do HTML over Micropub and convert the HTML to Markdown
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[eddie]
I’m basically taking aaronpk’s approach with this rebuild, where I’ll have .txt files that contain either plain text, markdown or html and my site will process it as such and display it.
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Loqi
[voxpelli] voxpelli.github.com: My personal blog, hosted here on GitHub Pages
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[eddie]
voxpelli: One of my issues is I have like, an insane number of posts, because I’m tracking so many things. TV show episodes I watch, movies I watch, podcasts i listen to, food I eat, drinks I drink, not to mention, replies, rsvps, posts, photos, etc.
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[eddie]
and I’m working on importing my content from different silos
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[eddie]
oh and checkins
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[barryf]
I went for a hybrid approach: all content stored as static files in git (GitHub) but cached in a database and served from there.
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[eddie]
That’s what I’m working up to, is once I get my rebuild working (somewhat slowly) based off of text files, then I plan to add some type of cache db to speed things up
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voxpelli
[eddie]: yeah, such data might perhaps not always be best expressed as static files :P Tricky
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[eddie]
Yeah most of that stuff is yaml blobs
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[eddie]
with any “real content” as markdown
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sebsel
Might I ask something stupid? Why re-render ALL the pages, and not just those you know have changed?
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voxpelli
starts thinking of https://datproject.org/ but realizes directly that it would be insanely overkill
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voxpelli
sebsel: it can be hard to know which pages that have changed
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voxpelli
but incremental render tries to do that
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sebsel
ah okay
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sebsel
One can argue that some very old pages do not have to be re-rendered
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sebsel
just picking a date here
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sebsel
http://tantek.com/log/2004/01.html is completely different again
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[eddie]
I think one of my biggest issues is all the “feed” pages have to re-render
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voxpelli
Jekyll seems to do something wrong as well, as eg. Sara notes in the post I linked to:
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voxpelli
> it takes Hugo around 39ms to compile my entire site now, compared to the minutes needed by Jekyll before
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voxpelli
So it's not that it isn't possible to do that, it's just that Jekyll doesn't do it
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voxpelli
(Another pro of Hugo is probably that it doesn't need Ruby or anything, it's a self-contained compiled Go app)
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[eddie]
That’s true
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[eddie]
That does sound good. The ruby part of jekyll has been annoying
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dgold
cweiske - I could, or given that Ownyourgram also uses 'post', I think I'll just patch my micropub endpoint
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cweiske
or also patch ownyourgram :)
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cweiske
bring them into the future
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sebsel
I see OwnYourGram requests create at the moment
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sebsel
Will update the wiki
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[kevinmarks]
I tried Hugo on a pretty big site and the rebuild time was great. The reasons you need to rebuild everything is when you are changing templates. Hugo has a pretty good dynamic mode you can run locally so it rebuilds when you edit template or post files
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[kevinmarks]
Will that make ownyourgram stop working with my hosted known site?
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dgold
hugo is incredible
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dgold
but their docs, jebus, their docs
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sebsel
OwnYourGram already requests create, [kevinmarks], so I guess just don't get logged out?
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dgold
it does? oh, great.
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[kevinmarks]
Oh, I think the difference is not scope but json format that stops ownyourswarm working with my hosted known
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sebsel
Oh, that could be, but aaronpk has made a non-JSON mode IIRC
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dgold
i've been looking at OYS, but I can't come up with a method to display maps on a static-gen site
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dgold
a method that I can understand or use, naturally
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sebsel
dgold Do you know how to download / import an image for a URL? Then you can use atlas, like: http://atlas.p3k.io/map/img?marker[]=lat:45.5165;lng:-122.6764;icon:small-blue-cutout&basemap=gray&width=600&height=240&zoom=14
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sebsel
Better not hotlink though :)
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dgold
sebsel - intersting... thank you
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dgold
looks like a future task
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@calum_ryan
Thanks @triblondon last night leading discussion on distributed & syndicated content https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/distributed-content/ #indieweb community take note
(twtr.io/1UNGuGDqrj3)
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
morning!
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aaronpk
wow overloading of #IWS2017 that includes "Falcon"!
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Site deaths where you least expect them" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-22 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/site-deaths-where-you-least-expect-them
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jeremycherfas
It is possible that I have correctly implemented voxpelli’s webmention receiver. If anyone would care to send a webmention to https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/not-giving-up-on-indieweb I would be very grateful. Not sure how long these things take to show up.
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Loqi
Not giving up on IndieWeb
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sketchess
Good morning Loqi. Good morning Indieweb.
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jeremycherfas
Whoever did that, thank you very much!
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aaronpk
that was meeeee
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[miklb]
just sent a reply
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gRegorLove
Good morning, indieweb
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Loqi
aaronpk has 518 karma in this channel (1388 overall)
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jeremycherfas
I’m going to crack open a beer and retire from the fray for a while. Thanks again, everybody.
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dgold
aaronpk++ that endpoint is wonderful
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Loqi
aaronpk has 519 karma in this channel (1389 overall)
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sketchess
Hmmm.... I wonder, if rel attributes / values are just benefiting search engines.
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sketchess
What are microformats?
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Loqi
microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indieweb.org/microformats
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[kevinmarks]
Well, rel values benefit search engines and sites that want search engines to represent them properly
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@_dgoldsmith
Is the #Indieweb easy? No, it isn't. Is it hard? That depends on what you mean by hard. I flailed about when I… https://ascraeus.org//micro/1501178407
(twtr.io/1UNauKELUeU)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Liked:Not giving up on IndieWeb" by Srikanth Perinkulam on 2017-07-27 https://srikanthperinkulam.com/2017/07/27/indieweb-nuances/
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sketchess
To gain information and learn about Indieweb building blocks is kind of tricky.^^ It gets me lost in thoughts. No surprise that most related artikels I found connect with Indieweb somehow. What amazes me, is that they suddenly end in the middle of the subject. It leaves a strange feeling. ..... hmmmmm
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gRegorLove
Nice ^ What section of /Disqus should I put that on?
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sketchess
?
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gRegorLove
Separate conversation about the Disqus link above
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sketchess
ah, I see...
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gRegorLove
Whoa, I didn't know Bridgy posts webmentions as Disqus comments for Tumblr
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cweiske
that's .. cool and scary
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cweiske
I would not want to have my comments put into disqus
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@IrishWhiskeySoc
Our visit to the JDBS is kicking off! Excited to be here for our July tasting with the wonderful @GerMidleton #iws2017 #jamesonbowst
(twtr.io/1UNeyKQFRHs)
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sketchess
Zegnat, could you guys teach me on HWC more about microformats? It feels like it could be something for me? I am interested in the subject. :)
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gRegorLove
sketchess: Certainly. There's also an intro session at IWS which was recorded.
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gRegorLove
Youtube link on there, and notes
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sketchess
hmmmm.... I try to remember, I might attended the first half hours. -> looks
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gRegorLove
That might have been all of the microformats content. The session covered Webmentions and WebSub in the latter half.
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sketchess
Thanks for the link gRegorLove, but that does not satisfy me.
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Zegnat
sketchess I am always happy to do a microformats intro :)
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sketchess
And are you perhaps also happy to dig in deeper, Zegnat? ;)
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Zegnat
I would not recommend it.
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Zegnat
Hahahaha
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sketchess
What?
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Loqi
awesome
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Zegnat
Easy to go too deep, sketchess. sknebel and I can dig you up some really conflicting microformats parsing stuff, if you want ;)
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sketchess
I need the spiders web point of view. Thihihihi.
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sketchess
Since it is a language some sort of, I might have to ask some odd questions. Probably some you never heard. xD
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@MirenSomers
Best old fashioned I've ever had made by @jamesonwhiskey craft ambassador Donal at the JDBS #jamesonbowst #IWS2017 @irishwhiskeysoc
(twtr.io/1UNgcYsgWJf)
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@MirenSomers
Two incredible craft ambassadors, Molly and Christopher, teaching us all about #jameson tonight #jamesonbowst #IWS2017 @IrishWhiskeySoc
(twtr.io/1UNgkTRPpFj)
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sketchess
As long as microformats are meaningless words for me, I will not get a hang of it. Regardless how many articles about it I find. And little pieces of a puzzle that remains unfinished.
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Zegnat
Happy to walk people through it. If I can make it to IWC Berlin I will probably put up another Microformats session. I think people found it helpful last time I did one.
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sketchess
Which point of view?
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sketchess
Indieweb based? General?
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sketchess
A model would be very helpful. *thought*
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gRegorLove
It's definitely helpful to see someone write simple microformats in the parser and show the results, then describe how that came about based on the prefixes.
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Zegnat
Just general, sketchess. Just talk about where microformats come from and how they work. Nothing about that is specifically IndieWeb
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sketchess
As far as I saw yet, Indieweb used microformats are certain ones. Often mentioned 5, 6 of them.
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Zegnat
Though I might skip history of microformats. While interesting, most of the actually in-use formats have been brought to mf2.
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sketchess
Nature is more important than history for me.
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Zegnat
A lot of new or “experimental” formats are now coming from the indieweb community. So that definitely makes for a strong link. But in the end microformats let you mark up data, whether that data gets used for indieweb purposes or something else is up to the consumer.
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sketchess
How can it serve it's users? Which ways?
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sketchess
Ok, I won't dig today. xD
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Zegnat
If you have data that you want to make easily available to computers as well as people, microformats is a great way to do that in a way that prioritises the people over the computers and makes it easy on you as the HTML author
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sketchess
Keep that thought Zegnat, we will come to it. This are already 3 ropes in hand to follow. :)
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sketchess
I will have to leave, bedtime is near. So sweet dreams veryone and a good morning.
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Zegnat
Have a good night sketchess!
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sketchess
and thanks
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sketchess
kay chatlog bockmarked ;), I am out...... thihihi
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gRegorLove
Heh, probably safe to turn off #iws2017?
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Zegnat
Hahahaha, Irish Whiskey Society? For real? Maybe they want to sponsor IWS 2018!
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Loqi
hahahaha
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@nhoizey
@kethinov Portier would more be an equivalent of IndieAuth: https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
(twtr.io/1UNnJR175jY)
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petermolnar
with the help of Zegnat - pointing out I can release my stuff with alternative licence over cc - I've reorganised my licenses: cc by for code/tech articles, cc by-nd for journal and cc-by-nd-nc for photos. I'm not expecting any change from any angle, but it's at least clear now.
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Zegnat
petermolnar++ for clearing up licences on the stuff he shares
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Loqi
petermolnar has 27 karma in this channel (44 overall)
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petermolnar
I do have a problem with favorites
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petermolnar
because it's more or less impossble to trace them back to their actual source
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petermolnar
and because I make a copy, otherwise they'll be gone in a few years for sure
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j12t
I mis-counted yesterday at Homebrew Website Club. We are at #No. 32 in our list of products that don't screw us. http://indietech.rocks/
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j12t
tantek challenged me to make it to 100, but I don't know of that many. Help?
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tantek
j12t you can totally do it
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Loqi
tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 17 hours, 44 minutes ago: that HWC logo is SVG 1 here: https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club#Promoting_a_HWC_event
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j12t
I need pointers, though, to other products.
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tantek
!tell gRegorLove perhaps we should combine that with https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club#Logo
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
j12t++
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Loqi
j12t has 11 karma in this channel (12 overall)
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tantek
j12t now that you have 32, you can start over from # 1, make it 100 days, and in each post, put a call out for submissions (in the @-replies)
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tantek
I feel like plenty of open source projects will want to be featured
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tantek
and that buys you about a month to get a bunch in your queue :)
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j12t
You mean take what's on the site already back down? Or just tweet again from #1?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 15 minutes ago: perhaps we should combine that with https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club#Logo
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gRegorLove
I can't tell a difference between logo 1 and 2 there. Description says one is without text, but it's there?
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Zegnat
Good night IndieWeb, it has been another fun day!
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Loqi
laila tov!
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sknebel
good night!
Anchakor_, catsup_, adamrbit_, Gold, edsu_, bignose_, PFMurph_, raucao, Ruxton, [kevinmarks], bnvk, micro_, sebsel and AngeloGladding joined the channel