#indieweb 2017-09-20

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@EmreSokullu
BarCamp 2017, 30 Ekim Cumartesi Sisli'de Koc Universitesi KWorks'te oluyor; https://ti.to/indieweb-istanbul/2017 -- AI, blockchain, open web konusacagiz.
(twtr.io/1WLdkphpAy8)
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petermolnar
buzzwords, buzzwords everywhere!
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petermolnar
I'm not certain if I like the newspaper like layout or it's way too confusing
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ben_thatmustbeme
i do not like it
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, if it filled all the space, that might be different
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ben_thatmustbeme
but too many huge empty blocks
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ben_thatmustbeme
theres potential for it though
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@nicolas2fr
Attention au web moderne, cool come back on #IndieWeb #NetNeutrality http://nicolas-bermond.com/indieweb/attention-au-web-moderne
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Zegnat
I totally forgot to advertise, but, I will be online for https://indieweb.org/events/2017-09-20-homebrew-website-club#Virtual_European_Time . As of, well, right now actually.
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petermolnar
that is today
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petermolnar
welp... that's a problem
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Zegnat
It is today, yes, it is wednesday. I just got on, 10 minutes after start, but as nobody is there anyway I am going to say I was on time :p
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@DreamHost
Hey, #PDX citizens! If you love #WordPress, you should check out @indiewebcamp! They meet next on 10/4! http://bit.ly/2mWH9Fz
(twtr.io/1WM8UPLwbqB)
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aaronpk
oh yeah wordcamp pdx is this weekend
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sketchess
Godd morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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gRegorLove
Hello sketchess
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sketchess
Hello gRegorLove. How are things going?
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Zegnat
sketchess and KevinMarks have dropped in to vHWC. But nobody has done a lot as of late, all been busy with non-IndieWeb projects.
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Zegnat
KevinMarks dropped out now. At least I got a photo for the wiki, haha.
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Loqi
hehe
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[kevinmarks]
Didn't really have control of it with android Chrome
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Zegnat
Android Chrome has worked for me before, IIRC. So that’s surprising.
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Zegnat
Let me summarise for logs:
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Zegnat
sketchess has been busy with uni instead of website;
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Zegnat
Zegnat has been busy with uni, working on a small CSS thing, and renewed some of the CSS on his gender page.
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks] has been busy with other projects but would like to get back to his Known set-up;
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Zegnat
tantek joined ... talking about his longest blogpost - http://tantek.com/2017/253/b1/my-first-marathon
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] My First #Marathon @theSFMarathon
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Zegnat
... probably about 35 printed pages
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Zegnat
Zegnat added footnotes css to http://vanderven.se/martijn/gender/
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Zegnat
tantek has been looking at AMP alternatives. Zegnat isn’t sure what the problem AMP is solving is in the first place.
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Zegnat
AMP seems to solve the issue where (especially news content) is loading too slow. AMP forces a lot of stuff away, making the page faster
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Zegnat
“are people smart enough to build leaner websites” without AMP? -- Zegnat
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Zegnat
“with indieweb we should be able to showcase best practice on our own websites” -- tantek
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tantek
what is performance
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Loqi
Performance typically refers to the speed, responsiveness, and initial load of a website https://indieweb.org/performance
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[jeremycherfas]
Yeah. Sorry I couldn't make vHWC. But I didn't forget. I was away.
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Zegnat
No problem [jeremycherfas] :)
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[kevinmarks]
When I grumbled about AMP, Alex said that the non native img video etc was necessary to have preload control
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[kevinmarks]
I wonder if that is still true if you have a service worker
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks], I thought it is done this way because they want to hijack any preloading browsers want to do.
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Zegnat
Basically saying “our JS can do this better than the browser”.
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sketchess
Good morning Jeremy. :D
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@zpinternational
Would love to see 1 of those #StarTrek #indie do a continuation of the TOS A Piece of the Action with TNG universe. With Ferengi #indieweb
(twtr.io/1WMDc8E5jtP)
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Zegnat
We talked about “preferred HTML”. sketchess prefers HTML 4.01, tantek prefers XML-Valid HTML5 (http://tantek.com/2010/302/b1/xhtml-dead-long-live-xml-valid-html5)
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] XHTML Is Dead, Long Live XML-Valid HTML5
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Zegnat
Some XML-invalidities were spotted on tantek’s website, so he is now fixing
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sketchess
favorite please
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sketchess
I write 5.
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tantek
fixes up a bunch of Falcon output
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Zegnat
We were looking at organisers. Hipster organiser (PDA) came up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_PDA
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Zegnat
Turns out, it has its own Wikipedia page.
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tantek
so how could you build the indieweb equivalent of that?
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Zegnat
I am going to claim wiki.zegnat.net is a Hipster PDA, I think ;)
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tantek
what is a PDA?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PDA" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10tL
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sketchess
A good morning and sweet dreams to all. See ya around, hopefully.
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sketchess
Baba.
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Zegnat
tantek deployed some fixes and everyone goes their separate ways :)
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tantek
Zegnat++ thanks much for the debugging!
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Loqi
zegnat has 75 karma in this channel (133 overall)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "The “indie” fallacy" by Julien Genestoux on 2017-09-20 https://medium.com/@julien51/the-indie-fallacy-7aec040f8b6?source=rss-------1
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@EddieHinkle
Come tonight to Homebrew Website Club #frederickMD and learn about setting up your own website RSVP: https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/09/14/2/event/
(twtr.io/1WMJcfksiE8)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "YES. so true. well said. thanks for writing this." by Ryan Barrett on 2017-09-20 https://medium.com/@snarfed/yes-so-true-well-said-thanks-for-writing-this-b54fbe08dbe4?source=rss-------1
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snarfed
ooh superfeedr + medium at work
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tantek
snarfed - was that a Medium-only comment from you? or did it have a snarfed.org permalink?
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snarfed
tantek: medium only
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tantek
but yes - very cool to see medium+superfeedr work - even on comments! :)
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tantek
which I suppose raises the question - does Medium's API allow for POSSEing replies like that?
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tantek
checks Bridgy issues
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snarfed
no, and it's in there
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marinin
finally got to implementing parts of h-card and h-entry to my site!
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snarfed
marinin++
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Loqi
marinin has 1 karma
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tantek
marinin++ great!
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Loqi
marinin has 2 karma
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tantek
were you able to check it with indiewebify.me to see how it does?
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marinin
tantek: yes! Though didn't do all the points (no picture, etc.) Got to the webmentions step :)
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Zegnat
Oh, that reminds me, there is a bug in the h-card check on indiewebify.me. Need to check if that is filed somewhere.
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ben_thatmustbeme
marinin++ nice step forward though
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Loqi
marinin has 3 karma
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Zegnat
https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/68 doesn’t seem to be a duplicate, but if someone recalls seeing this let me know
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Loqi
[Zegnat] #68 The h-card checker does not resolve relative URLs.
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[cleverdevil]
Sigh. I'm noticing a lot of things that I'd like to fix / change in Known and not enough time/knowledge 😛
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petermolnar
knownledge
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tantek
[cleverdevil] re: lot of things to fix / change in Known - presumably you're filing issues on /Known 's github to at least capture them?
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tantek
or at least mention them in #knownchat in the hopes of having others help iterate on them?
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strk
!seen cweiske
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sknebel
strk: we don't have a bot for that, but he was last here around 30 hours ago ;)
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[cleverdevil]
Some of them are more like *projects* than bugs.
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[cleverdevil]
tantek no, and I definitely should.
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[cleverdevil]
Like, the entire Micropub implementation probably needs a rework.
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[cleverdevil]
Oh, I forgot to mention, I finished the first draft version of my Trader Vic's project last night 🙂
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[cleverdevil]
All of the recipes are marked up with microformats2!
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[kevinmarks]
Did you work out how to get the Zapfino variants?
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[cleverdevil]
Nope, Safari doesn't support them.
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[cleverdevil]
Or, at least it didn't in v10.x, it may in the one that was released yesterday.
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[cleverdevil]
Also: other browsers :d
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Loqi
Barbados Red Rum Swizzle
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[cleverdevil]
Keep that private-ish for now.
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[cleverdevil]
It Works For Me On My Laptop On MacOS
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[kevinmarks]
You could make them into svg
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[cleverdevil]
Also: totally not responsive yet.
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[cleverdevil]
Also: I'm not a designer, I just play one on the internet.
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[cleverdevil]
That's actually a good idea, kevinmarks.
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[cleverdevil]
Lots still to do. I need to pull all of the illustrations, if possible, and make them into SVGs.
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[cleverdevil]
Each recipe also has a proper ID so you can link to it - https://cleverdevil.io/trader-vics/#r-tortuga
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Loqi
Tortuga
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Loqi
Barbados Red Rum Swizzle
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[cleverdevil]
That's good, I hadn't actually tried that yet 🙂
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[cleverdevil]
There are some wonky recipes in there that are not written in a traditional manner, instead the ingredients are sort of distributed throughout the instructions.
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[kevinmarks]
Seems like you need to buy 8 kinds of rum
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[chrisaldrich]
cleverdevil did you ever get to have drinks at the Trade Vic's at the Beverly Hilton before it closed?
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[kevinmarks]
You should pinch adactio's script that changes the url as you scroll so that when you copy the url it links to where you are
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[kevinmarks]
Wow, that punch recipe is crazy
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[chrisaldrich]
It wasn't the same after the '07 remodel, but it was a great joint when I was at CAA in the early '00s.
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[cleverdevil]
kevinmarks that's a great idea.
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[cleverdevil]
Any idea where I can find that?
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[kevinmarks]
It's in his book
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[kevinmarks]
Well, view source
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[chrisaldrich]
His book should be a standard for one online books
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[cleverdevil]
Hmm, it doesn't actually seem to do the magic thing for me.
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[cleverdevil]
At least, not in my browser.
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Loqi
[Jeremy Keith] Deep linking with fragmentions
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[cleverdevil]
Ah, you have to highlight the text
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[cleverdevil]
I like the scrolling idea better 🙂
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[kevinmarks]
Maybe the headings thing I saw was somewhere else
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[cleverdevil]
Maybe this...
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks], I forgot to link it before, but, indieweb thing on glitch: https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/ (by sknebel)
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[cleverdevil]
Ugh, that thing looks waaaaaay too fancy.
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[eddie]
HWC Frederick has moved to Urbana Starbucks in case any non-RSVP’d people are thinking about swinging by.
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[eddie]
!tell jjoran not sure if you were planning on coming but FYI, we moved HWC Frederick to Starbucks down the street
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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schmarty
!tell jjuran eddie says: "not sure if you were planning on coming but FYI, we moved HWC Frederick to Starbucks down the street"
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie]
Ahhh nice catch schmarty!
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tantek
hello from SF!
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tantek
setup for HWC a bit early
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tantek
!tell [kevinmarks] re all that scrolly fragment stuff - can you add that as a "How to" with links to /fragmentions ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jjuran
[eddie], schmarty: thanks
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Loqi
jjuran: schmarty left you a message 42 minutes ago: eddie says: "not sure if you were planning on coming but FYI, we moved HWC Frederick to Starbucks down the street"
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@benwerd
Imagine if there were groups of hackers in the #indieweb and #decentralization movements who were working on less harmful platforms.
(twtr.io/1WMpCQjzwo0)
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tantek
wow benwerd tweetstorm
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tantek
if only it was a blog post
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@benwerd
Imagine just a handful of companies were responsible for setting standards on what truths could be conveyed, stored, and understood.
(twtr.io/1WMoCamdNiC)
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[kevinmarks]
His design got electric
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tantek
!tell benwerd I'm convinced the current purple/yellow styling of werd.io is turning you off to tweeting/blogging on your own site
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
[kevinmarks]: it's been that way since IWS 2017
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tantek
alright time for a public nudge
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[kevinmarks]
I read him through woodwind.xyz so I didn't know
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[kevinmarks]
Get him to hwc tonight and help edit his css?
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "@benwerd imagine posting this on werd.io 1st, tweetstorm 2nd. Persist the changes you wish to see. #indieweb every day" on 2017-09-21 http://tantek.com/2017/263/t2/imagine-posted-first-tweetstorm-second
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@t
@benwerd imagine posting this on werd.io 1st, tweetstorm 2nd. Persist the changes you wish to see. #indieweb every day (ttk.me t4qV2)
(twtr.io/1WMs4Firaxs)
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tantek
lol superfeedr UTC datetimes
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tantek
totally going to go file a "tweetstorm" feature request for Known right now with benwerd's tweetstorm as evidence for the need
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tantek
what is a tweetstorm
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Loqi
tweetstorm is a series of tweets, each replying to the previous, often each numbered so the sequence is clear, as a method of expressing a longer series of related thoughts as a single thread on Twitter https://indieweb.org/tweetstorm
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aaronpk
I've been thinking about adding an interface for tweetstorms to Quill
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aaronpk
tho I can't quite decide whether I want to treat my copy of a tweetstorm as a single article or as a bunch of short notes like the tweets
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tantek
do the simple direct thing first. same UI, same result
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tantek
makes it easier for people to make the "switch" from using Twitter to tweetstorm to using their own site to tweetstorm
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tantek
then you can have an option (later) to collect the notes into a collection, article etc.
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aaronpk
the thing that would make it easy for people is if Quill actually posted it to twitter
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aaronpk
rather than how it currently handles syndication which is to just tell your server to send it to twitter
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tantek
it could lazy reload the syndication links from your server
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aaronpk
i actually have a related feature request i'm tackling on it next which is to try to find matching syndication URLs of a post you're replying to. it'll require the server to support it too tho i think.
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aaronpk
the problem i'm having right now is if I want to reply to that last post of yours from my site, I don't have an automatic way to also POSSE the reply properly
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aaronpk
if that worked properly, then it would actually enable tweetstorms as well
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Loqi
[tantek] #1907 Add a "tweetstorm" UI for chaining status updates with chained POSSE tweets
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tantek
aaronpk what do you mean don't have an automatic way to also POSSE the reply properly? that's documented on /Twitter!
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tantek
I'll find it
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aaronpk
my site just doesn't do it
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aaronpk
the trick is getting it to work through micropub
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tantek
hmm I should update the rel-syndication references to u-syndication
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[miklb]
I’ve done a few where I create a note and syndicate to Twitter, then reply to the tweets in Tweetbot, backfeeding my own replies.
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@schmarty
Thanks all for another great Homebrew Website Club Baltimore! Here's to the next year of #IndieWeb! https://martymcgui.re/2017/09/20/204109/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKNY67hW4AA7eMJ.jpg
(twtr.io/1WMtVnpYZCY)
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aaronpk
the micropub syndication buttons don't actually have a concept of belonging to a particular service (where the service like twitter has rules such as max length, setting in-reply-to IDs, etc). the buttons are opaque to clients like quill. This means Quill doesn't have a way to know to select a button if Quill finds the POSSE copy of the thing being replied to.
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aaronpk
so this means it's up to the site itself to POSSE the reply properly, but the problem is Quill doesn't know whether it's going to happen, so the user doesn't know either, which means the user might type out a post that doesn't fit in a tweet
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aaronpk
it becomes a UI nightmare basically
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aaronpk
so that's why I haven't done it
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tantek
hmm - I'm not sure I'm quite following the flow and what the challenge is
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tantek
let's take this to dev
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aaronpk
i guess it's dev, it's mostly a UI challenge tho :P
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aaronpk
(a very nitty gritty one tho)
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tantek
UI dev is still dev
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tantek
from a user point of view, checking the "syndicate to twitter" button should "just work" no matter what the other settings are
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "@benwerd imagine posting this on werd.io first, tweetstorm second. Persist the changes you wish to see. #indieweb every day" on 2017-09-21 http://tantek.com/2017/263/t2/imagine-posting-first-tweetstorm-second
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tantek
haha that's what happens when I update the slug
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Loqi
haha
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bdesham
a small, nice new feature in iOS 11: sharing a webpage from Safari will always share the canonical URL
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aaronpk
ooh right they shipped that
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aaronpk
pretty sure they're using rel=share for that
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Loqi
sharelink formats
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "imagine adding tweetstorming to @Withknown’s UI so all Known users could #indieweb tweetstorm: https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1907" on 2017-09-21 http://tantek.com/2017/263/t3/imagine-adding-tweetstorming-ui
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@t
imagine adding tweetstorming to @Withknown’s UI so all Known users could #indieweb tweetstorm: https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1907 (ttk.me t4qV3)
(twtr.io/1WMx27ekVt5)
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@actually_a_bear
@WPWgtn @wellyux Then next week on Tuesday night the PHP meetup are talking abt IndieWeb with @iwantmyname who uses WordPress @phpwlg https://www.meetup.com/PHP-Usergroup-Wellington/events/242883877/
(twtr.io/1WMxL_ev8ik)
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tantek
GWG ^^^
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tantek
hello from HWC SF!
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tantek
five of us here
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tantek
I showed RSVPs working for today's HWC SF indie event
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club SF
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tantek
Anika is working on "Time Well Spent"
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tantek
we also talked about hosting challenges
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tantek
Andi is using WordPress on her Cascade site, and switched her hosting from godaddy to digital ocean but is annoyed at the WordPress update problem so is looking into maybe using a service like WP-engine to keep her WordPress updated
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tantek
Dan uses WP-engine on one of his sites
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tantek
Andi shows us her use of timewellspent.io
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tantek
oh home page of timewellspent - everyone's use - not hers
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tantek
Most Happy Apps vs Most Unhappy Apps
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tantek
Andi mentioned simplysecure.org
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tantek
Anika mentioned workflowy.com
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bdesham
we're looking at https://inthemoment.io/tws-results
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bdesham
it seems that all of the apps identified as making people unhappy are apps that could be replaced by indieweb alternatives
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bdesham
facebook, reddit, etc.
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bdesham
people are thinking about a hackathon to make some of the indie products more usable
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bdesham
t pointed out that http://indieweb.org/planning#San_Francisco (in our particular case) exists to help with scheduling this kind of thing
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aaronpk
they are all apps that are optimized to make you spend as much time as you can in them in order to maximize ad dollars they make
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bdesham
aaronpk: exactly
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bdesham
aaronpk: that seems to be the thrust of the Time Well Spent movement
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tantek
took a photo and we're done!
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club: One Year In – Jonathan Prozzi" https://jonathanprozzi.net/reflection/homebrew-website-club-one-year-in/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/09/20/19/)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Must we copy everything?" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-09-21 http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/must-we-copy-everything
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[cleverdevil]
Okay, I’ve got my trader Vic’s project up at https://cleverdevil.io/trader-vics/ and the matching git repo at https://git.cleverdevil.io/cleverdevil/trader-vics
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Loqi
Barbados Red Rum Swizzle
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[cleverdevil]
So people can send pull requests. But it’s sort of under the radar not on GitHub :P
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aaronpk
ooh another Gogs fan!
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[cleverdevil]
Just set it up. I had been using GitLab in the past, but it’s a Ruby Goldberg Machine.
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[cleverdevil]
Too much of a pain to keep running.
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[cleverdevil]
Gogs is tiny and works great.
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aaronpk
Ruby Goldberg Machine 😂
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