#indieweb 2017-10-12

2017-10-12 UTC
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tantek good find aaronpk https://krausefx.com/blog/ios-privacy-stealpassword-easily-get-the-users-apple-id-password-just-by-asking
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Loqi iOS Privacy: steal.password - Easily get the user's Apple ID password, just by asking
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tantek what is apple id
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "apple id" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is AppleID
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AppleID" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is iOS
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Loqi iOS is the operating system that runs on the Apple iPhone and iPad https://indieweb.org/iOS
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tantek AppleID is /Apple_ID
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Loqi ok
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tantek Apple ID is https://appleid.apple.com/ a universal [[identity]] system from [[Apple]] that they use on [[iOS]] and [[macOS]] systems as well as their [[iCloud]] service.
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Loqi ok
hs0ucy, JohnBeales, KartikPrabhu, eli_oat1, EmreSoku_, gRegorLove, snarfed, electronicmaji, [eddie], wolftune, nikivi, bttf, davidmead, renem and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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sknebel good morning indieweb
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sknebel mac users using Textual, urgent update! https://help.codeux.com/textual/Security-Advisory-October-2017-1.kb
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@zackhuston @doyouevenblog Saw interesting talk on IndieWeb from @keithjgrant at @connect_js . Own social content through blog. https://www.recallact.com/presentation/decentralized-social-web (twitter.com/_/status/918319973566644224)
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aaronpk keithjgrant++
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Loqi keithjgrant has 8 karma in this channel (13 overall)
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sknebel good morning Indieweb!
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sknebel has anyone thought about/implemented grouping of bookmarks of some kind (outside the basic "show me all bookmarks tagged #indieweb")
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KartikPrabhu how else would they be grouped other than tags?
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sknebel that's what I'm trying to find out. First ideas: time, tag-spanning clustering, explicit collections
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sknebel I used a wiki as bookmarking system for a while and am missing aspects of that
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KartikPrabhu what did the wiki group them by?
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sknebel I guess wiki pages are explicit collections, with tags for the collections
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[kevinmarks] If you correlate tags based on co-occurence you can use them to widen or narrow results in groups
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petermolnar tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 223 karma in this channel (388 overall)
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petermolnar "intranet of things" may actually be a selling point for those who prefer not to push all the things to the cloud
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sknebel I liked "NoT" - "Network of Things"
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KartikPrabhu I like things to be things and not be networked
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu I see no problem if a device can safely do intranet - z-wave, zigbee, etc - and fully functioning non-networked
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petermolnar sknebel re bookmark grouping: that is exactly why I'm trying to locate some text-analysis service
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petermolnar I realised I have 1500+ bookmarks, which is impossible to maintain
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sknebel petermolnar: yeah. Not sure if I primarily want something automatic, but at least as an option it would be interesting
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sknebel (Considering getting a pinboard account for now, to have at least something more advanced than browser bookmarks
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petermolnar I tried pinboard, but I wasn't impressed, the was rather weird for me
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petermolnar I'm trying paid pocket now
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petermolnar they offer some tags they believe fitting for the bookmark you're adding to pocket
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sknebel right, you mentioned importing
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sknebel so slow that you can't even trickle them in over multiple days?
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petermolnar my problem is multi-layered, and I decided to summarise it in a post later on: I have a vast amount of save urls, many of them dead, some with quotes, others with extra thoughs on it, some are obsolete, yet another set of them should have been ~bookmarked (~ in this case means to use whatever facilities the silo offers) within silos since they have been posted there (youtube, tumblr, deviantart, etc)
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petermolnar I've been working on the latter for a while now: going to the silo and mark it "properly" - unfortunately I'm having double thougths on this, see the conversation yesterday - and I'm reaching a point where the remaining bookmarks are completely unstructured, badly, if all, tagged
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petermolnar so I tried first pinboard, but that isn't much better than my home-made solution, trying pocket + manual visiting with a few magic extensions in order to auto-redirect to archived version from archive.org/is and to save the site as mhtml
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petermolnar but I'm still having the problem of unstructured which I tried to address once by making a local full text search index out of the bookmark content
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petermolnar this one kind of failed due to being unable to actually save the text because js;dr sites
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petermolnar hence the revisit
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sknebel hm
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sknebel I remember treora's browser plugin could save pages by dumping the DOM to HTML, maybe that could be extracted and run automatically (e.g. in a headless browser). and then extract text from that?
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petermolnar I want a compete copy, inc. images, media, etc.
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petermolnar I played around with WARC and wget, but that is not a usable format
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petermolnar unless you're deeply embedded in archive.org internals
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petermolnar I do use warc when I want to archive a complete website, which happened only a few times
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cweiske is there browser support for warc?
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petermolnar not really
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petermolnar and there is no mhtml support in firefox
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sknebel yeah, warc is complicated to work with - and downstream tooling still has to be a browser (and run JS etc) to get at the content for js;dr sites
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sknebel petermolnar: https://github.com/WebMemex/freeze-dry that's the code the browser plugin mentioned uses - dumps DOM, removes JS, inlines images and styles
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Loqi [WebMemex] freeze-dry: Snapshots a web page to get it as a static, self-contained HTML document.
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petermolnar what is more or less what mhtml does
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "more or less what mhtml does" yet. Would you like to create it?
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petermolnar that is
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petermolnar not what is
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petermolnar also, it's not necessarily bad to force mysel to revisit my bookmarks from time to time
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sknebel ah, never looked into mhtml
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petermolnar it' a hack, essentially converting the html doc to a mime multipart email with inline data:, but that certainly does the job
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petermolnar and has a Content-Location header which is the original url
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Zegnat Hellow IndieWeb
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sknebel Morning Zegnat !
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Zegnat How is the IndieWeb doing this week?
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[markmhendrickso Delightfully ?
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Zegnat That’s good to hear
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@uitestcom New on https://uitest.com/: #IndieWeb Check, https://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/918460212436242433)
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@ChrisAldrich Yet another reason for #indieweb https://twitter.com/hellomountfuji/status/918442071400251392?s=09 (twitter.com/_/status/918501247812100096)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Yet another reason for #indieweb https://twitter.com/hellomountfuji/status/918442071400251392?s=09" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-10-12 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/yet-another-reason-for-indiewebhellomountfujistatus918442071400251392s09
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tantek tries to dig into [chrisaldrich]'s sources
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[miklb] hands tantek a shovel
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tantek Facebook << 2015-12-11 Fast Company: [https://www.fastcompany.com/3054592/donald-trump-can-post-hate-speech-to-facebook-but-you-cant Donald Trump Can Post Hate Speech To Facebook, But You Can’t]
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Loqi ok, I added "2015-12-11 Fast Company: [https://www.fastcompany.com/3054592/donald-trump-can-post-hate-speech-to-facebook-but-you-cant Donald Trump Can Post Hate Speech To Facebook, But You Can’t]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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tantek Facebook << 2015-12-18 NiemanLab / Anjali Mullany: [http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/12/platforms-decide-who-gets-heard/ Platforms decide who gets heard]
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Loqi ok, I added "2015-12-18 NiemanLab / Anjali Mullany: [http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/12/platforms-decide-who-gets-heard/ Platforms decide who gets heard]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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tantek note the years
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tantek didn't know about that, FB essentially allowed hate speech because it came from someone of a certain level of status
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tantek that's so despicable I'm not sure what to make of it
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tantek *selectively allowed
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@scottmathson Diving DEEP in optimizing @microformats on https://scottmathson.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/918514084923949056)
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aaronpk Well this is awkward
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aaronpk tumblr sent me a “Your username needs attention” email where it’ll release my username if I don’t confirm
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aaronpk clicked the link and it says “you need the app”
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aaronpk https://i.imgur.com/VXW7rFL.png
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aaronpk thats one way to drive downloads I guess
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schmarty wowzers
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tantek ugh wat
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tantek wow that deserves documenting as criticism on /Tumblr
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tantek I think that's not the first time they threatened to release / re-use a username
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Zegnat Last time we discussed Tumblr I logged in to mine again. It took that as a reason to start emailing me about stuff I have “missed” all the time now.
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aaronpk Ugh yeah my other one does that
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tantek what are silo quits
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Loqi silo quits are public statements by individuals announcing they have publicly quit posting on or using (at all) various silos, either with intended permanence, or temporarily (sometimes referred to as taking a "social media break") https://indieweb.org/silo-quits
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tantek silo-quits << 2015-09-30 The Telegraph: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/11537494/Why-do-celebrities-leave-Twitter.html Why do celebrities like Lena Dunham leave Twitter?]
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Loqi ok, I added "2015-09-30 The Telegraph: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/11537494/Why-do-celebrities-leave-Twitter.html Why do celebrities like Lena Dunham leave Twitter?]" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits
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tantek thanks [miklb]
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[miklb] ?
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tantek climbs back out of the [chrisaldrich] rabbithole of sources (from just one post).
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[miklb] ah
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tantek from this: https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/918501247812100096
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@ChrisAldrich Yet another reason for #indieweb QT [@hellomountfuji] What happens when platforms decide who gets heard? http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/12/platforms-decide-who-gets-heard/ https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/arts/rose-mcgowan-twitter-weinstein.html?referer=https://t.co/RyZIBZn0g8?amp=1 (twitter.com/_/status/918501247812100096)
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@scottmathson Actually, quickly obsessed: https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/918520944796213249)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/918492384488493056 temporary silo quit?
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@justkelly_ok #WomenBoycottTwitter Friday, October 13th. In solidarity w @rosemcgowan and all the victims of hate and harassment Twitter fails to support. https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/918362427187781632 (twitter.com/_/status/918492384488493056)
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@kevinmarks Thoughtful tummeling from Chuq https://chuqui.com/2017/10/thoughts-on-building-or-killing-a-great-online-community/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/918541002155048960)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Thoughtful tummeling from Chuq https://chuqui.com/2017/10/thoughts-on-building-or-killing-a-great-online-community/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/thoughtful-tummeling-from-chuq-201710thoughts-on-building-or-killing-a-great-online-community-indieweb
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@kevinmarks The social media backlash continues http://mailchi.mp/d0c3c4aec972/111017 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/918542191974215680)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "The social media backlash continues http://mailchi.mp/d0c3c4aec972/111017 #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/the-social-media-backlash-continues-d0c3c4aec972111017-indieweb
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tantek what is a webcam
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Loqi A webcam is a digital camera that can typically stream video and audio to the web (useful for remote participation in IndieWebCamps and virtual Homebrew Website Club meetups) either as a peripheral connected (via USB, Bluetooth) to a computer, or as a standalone device directly connected to the internet by wifi (AKA IoT webcam), though the latter tend to be vulnerable to attack https://indieweb.org/webcam
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tantek webcam << 2017-10-05 The Next Web: [https://thenextweb.com/gear/2017/10/05/woman-films-internet-connected-camera-whispering-hola-senorita/ https://thenextweb.com/gear/2017/10/05/woman-films-internet-connected-camera-whispering-hola-senorita/]
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-10-05 The Next Web: [https://thenextweb.com/gear/2017/10/05/woman-films-internet-connected-camera-whispering-hola-senorita/ https://thenextweb.com/gear/2017/10/05/woman-films-internet-connected-camera-whispering-hola-senorita/]" to the "See Also" section of /webcam
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@kevinmarks “with enough social insight, you can build community standards into decentralized software.” @benwerd https://words.werd.io/tear-down-the-new-institutions-91516b868a2c #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/918547285167894528)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "“with enough social insight, you can build community standards into decentralized software.” @benwerd https://words.werd.io/tear-down-the-new-institutions-91516b868a2c #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/with-enough-social-insight-you-can-build-community-standards-into
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@miklb @tweetdkp @harrisj might I suggest #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/918547435655483392)
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tantek wow - anyone have or use Google's Home Mini "smart speaker"? http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10
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tantek what is a smart speaker
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Loqi smart speaker is a voice interaction hardware device and that answers various queries via an internet-based service like Amazon Echo or Google Home https://indieweb.org/smart_speaker
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tantek alrighty then
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tantek smart speaker << 2017-10-12 Business Insider: [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10 The Google Home Mini secret-recording fiasco is a major black eye at the worst possible time for Google] <blockquote>… a reviewer discovered the device was quietly recording his conversations without his knowledge or consent</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-10-12 Business Insider: [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10 The Google Home Mini secret-recording fiasco is a major black eye at the worst possible time for Google] <blockquote>… a reviewer discovered the device was quietly recording his conversations without his knowledge or consent</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
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gRegorLove Hola, #indieweb
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tantek smart spaker << 2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]
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Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "smart spaker" or similar
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tantek lol oops
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tantek smart speaker << 2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
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[miklb] just curious what relevance a smart speaker has to indieweb
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tantek I think folks were hooking them up to their websites maybe? let's check the history
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tantek I'm guessing it may have been in a side-conversation with aaronpk at the time
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tantek and maybe related to benward's bot efforts
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KartikPrabhu is a smart speaker just a speaker connected to wifi?
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tantek hmm no mention of bot.werd.io either
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tantek looks like some holes in the docs
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tantek what is Loqi
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
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tantek what is Benbot
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Benbot" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek Benbot is http://bot.werd.io/ an interactive voice operated bot developed by {{benwerd}} that runs on his website werd.io, as an independent alternative to using a [[silo]] serviced [[smart speaker]].
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu what is smart speaker?
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Loqi smart speaker is a voice interaction hardware device and that answers various queries via an internet-based service like Amazon Echo or Google Home https://indieweb.org/smart_speaker
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KartikPrabhu oh so it is a smart listener/speaker
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tantek miklb ^^^ I believe that's one of the contexts that the notion came up, and furthermore aaronpk's experience with an Alexa I think
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yeah, smart speaker is less creepy than smart microphone
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tantek more marketing friendly
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KartikPrabhu yeah, i suppose so
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Turning Webmentions into comments for native display on #WordPress #facepile #IndieWeb http://boffosocko.com/2017/10/06/using-facepiles-in-comments-for-wordpress-with-webmentions-and-semantic-linkbacks/#Turning+mentions+into+comments" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-10-12 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/turning-webmentions-into-comments-for-native-display-on-wordpressfacepile-indieweb20171006using-facepiles-in-comments-for-wordpress-with-webmentions-and-semantic-linkbacksturningmentionsintocomments
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@ChrisAldrich Turning Webmentions into comments for native display on #WordPress #facepile #IndieWeb http://boffosocko.com/2017/10/06/using-facepiles-in-comments-for-wordpress-with-webmentions-and-semantic-linkbacks/#Turning+mentions+into+comments (twitter.com/_/status/918557867975827462)
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[miklb] lol, I know what a smart speaker is, still not sure how it relates to a personal website. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tantek yet another thing to use your website to make an indie alternative to
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tantek as demonstrated by /Benbot
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[miklb] I know GWG & aaronpk discuss in chat a lot about home automation
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tantek smart speaker << Benbort
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Loqi ok, I added "Benbort" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
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tantek oops
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tantek loqi, undo
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tantek sigh
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tantek smart speaker << Benbot
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Benbot]]" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
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[miklb] that seems like a slippery slope
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tantek nah, document based on real world things.
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tantek I mean, unless you're saying benwerd's hacking projects / implementation is a slippery slope
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tantek in which case, I can't necessarily dispute that
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KartikPrabhu it is fine for people to hack on things others don't particularly care about
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[miklb] no, I’m saying that it’s odd where the line is and isn’t drawn as to what is relevant to IndieWeb and the wiki
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tantek if someone has come up with a way to use their indieweb site as an alternative to some random centralized service, I'd say that's far over the line and definitely worth documenting as an example
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tantek even if someone just brainstorms how they could use their personal site instead of a centralized service, that's likely worth documenting
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KartikPrabhu ^ that is a fair "definition"
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KartikPrabhu with grey areas too but that's ok
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tantek which we should note in wikify if we haven't already
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[miklb] so then all of the discussions that have been chat about hooking up a house with “smart” devices and putting the content on a site should be in this channel. cool
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tantek I mean sure - especially if you're figuring out ways of using just your local network instead of "the cloud"
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tantek which overlaps greatly with the Indiebox as well
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tantek what is the indiebox
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IndieBox
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tantek hmm
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[miklb] it’s ok to say you are making it up as you go ?
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KartikPrabhu yeah, of course it is!
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tantek I assumed people were chatting about their own personal smart devices on the -chat channel for security reasons
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tantek not wanting logs of what devices they happen to have at home
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tantek since IoT is so vulnerable, if someone is targeting you and knows what devices you have, that makes you more vuln
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KartikPrabhu wonders if someone is secretly logging unlogged channels!
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singpolyma KartikPrabhu: probably
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tantek KartikPrabhu: possibly. but the harm is much less likely than publicly logged / indexed
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[miklb] a lot of IRC clients log. I **never** assume a channel is truly private
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[miklb] speaking of security
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tantek speaking of security, absolutes "truly" rarely matter in practice. all about reducing risks
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snarfed tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 224 karma in this channel (389 overall)
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tantek [miklb] take a look at https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Should_this_be_on_the_wiki and the "should not" subsequent section and see if that helps
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tantek or more importantly, see if you can suggest ways to improve it! :)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Liked this tweet: ChrisAldrich on Twitter: &#8220;Turning Webmentions into comments for native display on #WordPress #facepile #IndieWeb https://t.co/LKCZ0GGxdV&#8220;" by Scott Kingery on 2017-10-12 http://techlifeweb.com/16781-2/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @ChrisAldrich" by Scott Kingery on 2017-10-12 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-chrisaldrich-6/
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