#indieweb 2017-10-12

# Pierre-O joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
#
sknebel
good morning Indieweb!
#
sknebel
has anyone thought about/implemented grouping of bookmarks of some kind (outside the basic "show me all bookmarks tagged #indieweb")
#
KartikPrabhu
how else would they be grouped other than tags?
#
sknebel
that's what I'm trying to find out. First ideas: time, tag-spanning clustering, explicit collections
#
sknebel
I used a wiki as bookmarking system for a while and am missing aspects of that
#
KartikPrabhu
what did the wiki group them by?
#
sknebel
I guess wiki pages are explicit collections, with tags for the collections
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks]
If you correlate tags based on co-occurence you can use them to widen or narrow results in groups
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
#
Loqi
tantek has 223 karma in this channel (388 overall)
#
petermolnar
"intranet of things" may actually be a selling point for those who prefer not to push all the things to the cloud
#
sknebel
I liked "NoT" - "Network of Things"
#
KartikPrabhu
I like things to be things and not be networked
#
petermolnar
KartikPrabhu I see no problem if a device can safely do intranet - z-wave, zigbee, etc - and fully functioning non-networked
#
petermolnar
sknebel re bookmark grouping: that is exactly why I'm trying to locate some text-analysis service
#
petermolnar
I realised I have 1500+ bookmarks, which is impossible to maintain
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
#
sknebel
petermolnar: yeah. Not sure if I primarily want something automatic, but at least as an option it would be interesting
#
sknebel
(Considering getting a pinboard account for now, to have at least something more advanced than browser bookmarks
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
# arush joined the channel
#
petermolnar
I tried pinboard, but I wasn't impressed, the was rather weird for me
#
petermolnar
I'm trying paid pocket now
#
petermolnar
they offer some tags they believe fitting for the bookmark you're adding to pocket
#
sknebel
right, you mentioned importing
#
sknebel
so slow that you can't even trickle them in over multiple days?
#
petermolnar
my problem is multi-layered, and I decided to summarise it in a post later on: I have a vast amount of save urls, many of them dead, some with quotes, others with extra thoughs on it, some are obsolete, yet another set of them should have been ~bookmarked (~ in this case means to use whatever facilities the silo offers) within silos since they have been posted there (youtube, tumblr, deviantart, etc)
# j12t joined the channel
#
petermolnar
I've been working on the latter for a while now: going to the silo and mark it "properly" - unfortunately I'm having double thougths on this, see the conversation yesterday - and I'm reaching a point where the remaining bookmarks are completely unstructured, badly, if all, tagged
#
petermolnar
so I tried first pinboard, but that isn't much better than my home-made solution, trying pocket + manual visiting with a few magic extensions in order to auto-redirect to archived version from archive.org/is and to save the site as mhtml
#
petermolnar
but I'm still having the problem of unstructured which I tried to address once by making a local full text search index out of the bookmark content
#
petermolnar
this one kind of failed due to being unable to actually save the text because js;dr sites
#
petermolnar
hence the revisit
#
sknebel
I remember treora's browser plugin could save pages by dumping the DOM to HTML, maybe that could be extracted and run automatically (e.g. in a headless browser). and then extract text from that?
#
petermolnar
I want a compete copy, inc. images, media, etc.
#
petermolnar
I played around with WARC and wget, but that is not a usable format
#
petermolnar
unless you're deeply embedded in archive.org internals
#
petermolnar
I do use warc when I want to archive a complete website, which happened only a few times
#
cweiske
is there browser support for warc?
#
petermolnar
not really
#
petermolnar
and there is no mhtml support in firefox
#
sknebel
yeah, warc is complicated to work with - and downstream tooling still has to be a browser (and run JS etc) to get at the content for js;dr sites
#
sknebel
petermolnar: https://github.com/WebMemex/freeze-dry that's the code the browser plugin mentioned uses - dumps DOM, removes JS, inlines images and styles
#
Loqi
[WebMemex] freeze-dry: Snapshots a web page to get it as a static, self-contained HTML document.
#
petermolnar
what is more or less what mhtml does
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "more or less what mhtml does" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10ud
#
petermolnar
not what is
# Pierre-O joined the channel
#
petermolnar
also, it's not necessarily bad to force mysel to revisit my bookmarks from time to time
#
sknebel
ah, never looked into mhtml
#
petermolnar
it' a hack, essentially converting the html doc to a mime multipart email with inline data:, but that certainly does the job
#
petermolnar
and has a Content-Location header which is the original url
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# friedcell1 joined the channel
#
Zegnat
Hellow IndieWeb
#
sknebel
Morning Zegnat !
#
Zegnat
How is the IndieWeb doing this week?
# j12t joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
# [markmhendrickso joined the channel
#
[markmhendrickso
Delightfully 😃
#
Zegnat
That’s good to hear
# nitot_ joined the channel
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# singpolyma joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# hs0ucy joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
# jmelesky joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# nitot joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
#
tantek
tries to dig into [chrisaldrich]'s sources
# j12t joined the channel
# [miklb] joined the channel
#
[miklb]
hands tantek a shovel
#
tantek
Facebook << 2015-12-11 Fast Company: [https://www.fastcompany.com/3054592/donald-trump-can-post-hate-speech-to-facebook-but-you-cant Donald Trump Can Post Hate Speech To Facebook, But You Can’t]
#
Loqi
ok, I added "2015-12-11 Fast Company: [https://www.fastcompany.com/3054592/donald-trump-can-post-hate-speech-to-facebook-but-you-cant Donald Trump Can Post Hate Speech To Facebook, But You Can’t]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
#
tantek
Facebook << 2015-12-18 NiemanLab / Anjali Mullany: [http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/12/platforms-decide-who-gets-heard/ Platforms decide who gets heard]
#
Loqi
ok, I added "2015-12-18 NiemanLab / Anjali Mullany: [http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/12/platforms-decide-who-gets-heard/ Platforms decide who gets heard]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
#
tantek
note the years
#
tantek
didn't know about that, FB essentially allowed hate speech because it came from someone of a certain level of status
#
tantek
that's so despicable I'm not sure what to make of it
#
tantek
*selectively allowed
# snarfed joined the channel
# prtksxna joined the channel
#
aaronpk
Well this is awkward
#
aaronpk
tumblr sent me a “Your username needs attention” email where it’ll release my username if I don’t confirm
#
aaronpk
clicked the link and it says “you need the app”
#
aaronpk
thats one way to drive downloads I guess
#
schmarty
wowzers
#
tantek
ugh wat
#
tantek
wow that deserves documenting as criticism on /Tumblr
#
tantek
I think that's not the first time they threatened to release / re-use a username
#
Zegnat
Last time we discussed Tumblr I logged in to mine again. It took that as a reason to start emailing me about stuff I have “missed” all the time now.
#
aaronpk
Ugh yeah my other one does that
#
tantek
what are silo quits
#
Loqi
silo quits are public statements by individuals announcing they have publicly quit posting on or using (at all) various silos, either with intended permanence, or temporarily (sometimes referred to as taking a "social media break") https://indieweb.org/silo-quits
#
tantek
silo-quits << 2015-09-30 The Telegraph: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/11537494/Why-do-celebrities-leave-Twitter.html Why do celebrities like Lena Dunham leave Twitter?]
#
Loqi
ok, I added "2015-09-30 The Telegraph: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/11537494/Why-do-celebrities-leave-Twitter.html Why do celebrities like Lena Dunham leave Twitter?]" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits
#
tantek
thanks [miklb]
#
tantek
climbs back out of the [chrisaldrich] rabbithole of sources (from just one post).
# wolftune joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
@justkelly_ok
#WomenBoycottTwitter Friday, October 13th. In solidarity w @rosemcgowan and all the victims of hate and harassment Twitter fails to support. https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/918362427187781632
(twtr.io/1X8TzS3c5qw)
# snarfed joined the channel
# cdchapman joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks
The social media backlash continues http://mailchi.mp/d0c3c4aec972/111017 #indieweb
(twtr.io/1X8kmytom_f)
# snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
what is a webcam
#
Loqi
A webcam is a digital camera that can typically stream video and audio to the web (useful for remote participation in IndieWebCamps and virtual Homebrew Website Club meetups) either as a peripheral connected (via USB, Bluetooth) to a computer, or as a standalone device directly connected to the internet by wifi (AKA IoT webcam), though the latter tend to be vulnerable to attack https://indieweb.org/webcam
#
@kevinmarks
“with enough social insight, you can build community standards into decentralized software.” @benwerd https://words.werd.io/tear-down-the-new-institutions-91516b868a2c #indieweb
(twtr.io/1X8nb8n98Uo)
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "“with enough social insight, you can build community standards into decentralized software.” @benwerd https://words.werd.io/tear-down-the-new-institutions-91516b868a2c #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-12 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/with-enough-social-insight-you-can-build-community-standards-into
#
@miklb
@tweetdkp @harrisj might I suggest #indieweb
(twtr.io/1X8neNJqwVs)
# gRegorLove joined the channel
#
tantek
wow - anyone have or use Google's Home Mini "smart speaker"? http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10
#
tantek
what is a smart speaker
#
Loqi
smart speaker is a voice interaction hardware device and that answers various queries via an internet-based service like Amazon Echo or Google Home https://indieweb.org/smart_speaker
#
tantek
alrighty then
#
tantek
smart speaker << 2017-10-12 Business Insider: [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10 The Google Home Mini secret-recording fiasco is a major black eye at the worst possible time for Google] <blockquote>… a reviewer discovered the device was quietly recording his conversations without his knowledge or consent</blockquote>
#
Loqi
ok, I added "2017-10-12 Business Insider: [http://www.businessinsider.com/google-home-mini-secret-recording-fiasco-2017-10 The Google Home Mini secret-recording fiasco is a major black eye at the worst possible time for Google] <blockquote>… a reviewer discovered the device was quietly recording his conversations without his knowledge or consent</blockquote>" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
#
gRegorLove
Hola, #indieweb
#
tantek
smart spaker << 2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]
#
Loqi
Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "smart spaker" or similar
#
tantek
lol oops
#
tantek
smart speaker << 2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]
#
Loqi
ok, I added "2017-10-10 Android Police: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/10/google-nerfing-home-minis-mine-spied-everything-said-247/ Google is permanently nerfing all Home Minis because mine spied on everything I said 24/7]" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
# snarfed joined the channel
# nitot joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# nitot joined the channel
# [miklb] joined the channel
#
[miklb]
just curious what relevance a smart speaker has to indieweb
#
tantek
I think folks were hooking them up to their websites maybe? let's check the history
#
tantek
I'm guessing it may have been in a side-conversation with aaronpk at the time
#
tantek
and maybe related to benward's bot efforts
#
KartikPrabhu
is a smart speaker just a speaker connected to wifi?
#
tantek
hmm no mention of bot.werd.io either
#
tantek
looks like some holes in the docs
#
tantek
what is Loqi
#
Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the IndieWeb discussion channels https://indieweb.org/Loqi
#
tantek
what is Benbot
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Benbot" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10ue
#
tantek
Benbot is http://bot.werd.io/ an interactive voice operated bot developed by {{benwerd}} that runs on his website werd.io, as an independent alternative to using a [[silo]] serviced [[smart speaker]].
#
KartikPrabhu
what is smart speaker?
#
Loqi
smart speaker is a voice interaction hardware device and that answers various queries via an internet-based service like Amazon Echo or Google Home https://indieweb.org/smart_speaker
#
KartikPrabhu
oh so it is a smart listener/speaker
#
tantek
miklb ^^^ I believe that's one of the contexts that the notion came up, and furthermore aaronpk's experience with an Alexa I think
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: yeah, smart speaker is less creepy than smart microphone
#
tantek
more marketing friendly
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah, i suppose so
# nitot joined the channel
#
[miklb]
lol, I know what a smart speaker is, still not sure how it relates to a personal website. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#
tantek
yet another thing to use your website to make an indie alternative to
#
tantek
as demonstrated by /Benbot
#
[miklb]
I know GWG & aaronpk discuss in chat a lot about home automation
#
tantek
smart speaker << Benbort
#
Loqi
ok, I added "Benbort" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
#
tantek
loqi, undo
#
tantek
smart speaker << Benbot
#
Loqi
ok, I added "[[Benbot]]" to the "See Also" section of /smart_speaker
#
[miklb]
that seems like a slippery slope
#
tantek
nah, document based on real world things.
#
tantek
I mean, unless you're saying benwerd's hacking projects / implementation is a slippery slope
#
tantek
in which case, I can't necessarily dispute that
#
KartikPrabhu
it is fine for people to hack on things others don't particularly care about
#
[miklb]
no, I’m saying that it’s odd where the line is and isn’t drawn as to what is relevant to IndieWeb and the wiki
#
tantek
if someone has come up with a way to use their indieweb site as an alternative to some random centralized service, I'd say that's far over the line and definitely worth documenting as an example
#
tantek
even if someone just brainstorms how they could use their personal site instead of a centralized service, that's likely worth documenting
#
KartikPrabhu
^ that is a fair "definition"
#
KartikPrabhu
with grey areas too but that's ok
#
tantek
which we should note in wikify if we haven't already
#
[miklb]
so then all of the discussions that have been chat about hooking up a house with “smart” devices and putting the content on a site should be in this channel. cool
#
tantek
I mean sure - especially if you're figuring out ways of using just your local network instead of "the cloud"
#
tantek
which overlaps greatly with the Indiebox as well
#
tantek
what is the indiebox
#
[miklb]
it’s ok to say you are making it up as you go 😉
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah, of course it is!
#
tantek
I assumed people were chatting about their own personal smart devices on the -chat channel for security reasons
#
tantek
not wanting logs of what devices they happen to have at home
#
tantek
since IoT is so vulnerable, if someone is targeting you and knows what devices you have, that makes you more vuln
#
KartikPrabhu
wonders if someone is secretly logging unlogged channels!
#
singpolyma
KartikPrabhu: probably
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: possibly. but the harm is much less likely than publicly logged / indexed
#
[miklb]
a lot of IRC clients log. I **never** assume a channel is truly private
#
[miklb]
speaking of security
#
tantek
speaking of security, absolutes "truly" rarely matter in practice. all about reducing risks
#
snarfed
tantek++
#
Loqi
tantek has 224 karma in this channel (389 overall)
#
tantek
[miklb] take a look at https://indieweb.org/wikifying#Should_this_be_on_the_wiki and the "should not" subsequent section and see if that helps
#
tantek
or more importantly, see if you can suggest ways to improve it! :)
# snarfed1 joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
# [eddie] joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# electronicmaji joined the channel
# davidmead joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Liked this tweet: ChrisAldrich on Twitter: &#8220;Turning Webmentions into comments for native display on #WordPress #facepile #IndieWeb https://t.co/LKCZ0GGxdV&#8220;" by Scott Kingery on 2017-10-12 http://techlifeweb.com/16781-2/
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @ChrisAldrich" by Scott Kingery on 2017-10-12 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-chrisaldrich-6/
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# hs0ucy joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# eli_oat joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks
@michaelgorsuch @estoner head on over to http://indieweb.org - you want websub for the updates, webmention for the replies and micropub for the posting.
(twtr.io/1X9K8UvTcEf)
# eli_oat joined the channel
#
tantek
wow that's a long and windy thread
# snarfed joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# JohnBeales joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# snarfed1 joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks
It's not something that Twitter advertise, but they do have a built-in Nazi-blocking filter: http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitternazifilter.html
(twtr.io/1X9QSBJnMjY)
#
@kevinmarks
@daeaves @Twitter This is a reason for thinking in #indieweb terms - write things on your own site, and use twitter to reach others with them
(twtr.io/1X9RtMXNaSw)
# renem joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "In support of #WomenBoycottTwitter I'm not posting on Twitter on Friday (US time) https://twitter.com/justkelly_ok/status/918492384488493056 but on my own site instead. I may crosspost the posts" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-13 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/in-support-of-womenboycotttwitter-im-not-posting-on-twitter-on
#
@keithjgrant
@mirisuzanne Yes! They're a vital part of the IndieWeb &amp; new W3C standards. I did a talk on it last month ☺️ https://www.recallact.com/presentation/decentralized-social-web
(twtr.io/1X9TkSRMjxc)
# wolftune joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# davidmead joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
#
Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-10-13.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
# JohnBeales joined the channel
# electronicmaji joined the channel
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "📺 The Decentralized Social Web by Keith J. Grant" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-10-13 http://boffosocko.com/2017/10/12/the-decentralized-social-web-by-keith-j-grant/
#
aaronpk
hm that video isn't there
# tantek joined the channel
# skippy joined the channel
# [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich]
Apparently it's embargod by vimeo... you can click one of the other links to open it
#
aaronpk
huh i couldn't even get to it on vimeo.com
#
Loqi
[superfeedr] "Media companies should own their websites + audience relationships. #indieweb, I want to see your applications. https://matter.vc/apply" by Ben Werdmüller on 2017-10-11 https://werd.io/2017/media-companies-should-own-their-websites-audience-relationships-indieweb-i
#
@estoner
I’m fairly sure we could replace all the important bits of Twitter & Facebook with some listservs and a timeline-style email client.
(twtr.io/1X99ewu84G0)
# [shurcool] joined the channel
#
[shurcool]
I added IndieWeb Examples and Software sections to https://indieweb.org/issue_tracker page.
#
[shurcool]
tried to follow the same format/template as I saw on other pages
#
aaronpk
shurcool++ nice
#
Loqi
shurcool has 2 karma in this channel (3 overall)
# tantek joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich]
aaronpk, I could get that vimeo video to play in a standalone window, but for paying clients, they have a blocking mechanism that prevents one from embedding it on non-approved websites... ie mine, the slack channel, etc.
#
aaronpk
weird, maybe they cookied me since I first came to it from the embed
#
Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Using Facepiles in Comments for WordPress with Webmentions and Semantic Linkbacks" http://boffosocko.com/2017/10/06/using-facepiles-in-comments-for-wordpress-with-webmentions-and-semantic-linkbacks/
# sebsel joined the channel
#
@billbennettnz
Thinking about bookmarks and likes on the IndieWeb | Seblog https://seblog.nl/2017/10/09/9/bookmarks-and-likes
(twtr.io/1X9hX463N5s)
# tantek joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# EmreSoku_ joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# Guest31636 joined the channel
# [skellington] joined the channel
# [aaronpk] joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# cdchapman joined the channel
# aaa2 joined the channel
# cweiske joined the channel
# JohnBeales joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# gRegorLove_ joined the channel
#
@sebastiangreger
Thu 19.10. 19:00: After cancel bc of storm last wk, #Indieweb Homebrew Website Club Berlin "Hands on"-meetup is on! http://sebastiangreger.net/2017/10/homebrew-website-club-berlin-15-on-19-oct-2017/
(twtr.io/1X9rnzxAFk9)
# jihaisse joined the channel
# sgreger joined the channel
# friedcell1 joined the channel
# nitot joined the channel
#
Ruxton
hell yess, someone put an access point in range of the park and it's a lovely day outside - https://ignite.digitalignition.net/p/Syd