#indieweb 2017-11-01

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@cswordpress
Dear search engines. Please start supporting MF2 soon, I dearly hate http://schema.org mark up. #indieweb
(twtr.io/1Xr5BK4e7oH)
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@kavbojka
"Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks, and breaking the web." https://indieweb.org/site-deaths #liberatorytechnology
(twtr.io/1XrNBiUy_ak)
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sketchess
Good morning Loqi, good morning Indieweb.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel
cweiske: yeah, that got taken over some time ago and apparnetly aaronpk couldn't get it back
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sknebel
good morning sketchess!
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cweiske
http://loqi.me/ still links to it
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Loqi
Loqi
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sketchess
Hey sknebel, nice too see you. Checking on HWCs.
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sketchess
Oh good, for a second I thought, there won't be one.
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sketchess
What happend to the Berlin meet ups?
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sketchess
sknebel?
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sknebel
sketchess: we're meeting on thursdays now, and not this week since there is indiewebcamp on the weekend already and our new space is blocked by another event
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sketchess
oh, so everything will change again....
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sketchess
noted
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sknebel
since we have a fixed place now, it's going to stay on thursdays pretty sure
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sketchess
which timings?
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sknebel
starting 18:30 still
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sknebel
and there's still virtual homebrew website club on wednesdays (e.g. today!), only difference there is that we now use a different chat system than before ;) https://indieweb.org/events/2017-11-01-homebrew-website-club#Virtual_European_Time
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sketchess
I see..... will be interesting how things will come to be on my side. count down is running, 60 days still official semester start.
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sketchess
oh....
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sketchess
good to know, otherwise I would have wondered entery an empty room I guess. I check it out.
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sketchess
seems tu run.... o.O
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sketchess
Cool, I will meet some of you in person on IWC. xD
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sketchess
till evening....
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[miklb]
pfefferle++
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Loqi
pfefferle has 25 karma in this channel (35 overall)
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[miklb]
webmention comment replies for WordPress are great.
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[miklb]
I posted a note, got a webmention reply via micro.blog, was able to reply with the native WordPress comment reply & it shows up on micro.blog
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[chrisaldrich]
I thought I saw something like that the other day on someone's site, but wasn't sure that it wasn't manually POSSEd...
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[miklb]
yep. threaded reply on my site via comment form, backfeeds as a reply to micro.blog
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[chrisaldrich]
I noticed a while back that replies to my posts from Known that are also syndicated to other services (say twitter for example), pull in the webmention reply, but also show they syndicated tweet in the UI as well.
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[chrisaldrich]
It feels like in about 5 minutes that WordPress will have full salmention support.... 🙂
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[miklb]
I’m not sure micro.blog is considered a syndication target since it just picks up a feed
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[chrisaldrich]
Does that same functionality you saw work for Twitter as well? Or did it require any configuration with micro.blog?
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[miklb]
right now I don’t think brid.gy would pick that up. I simply reply natively in Twitter since my replies also backfeed as comments
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[chrisaldrich]
how does micro.blog pick up your replies though? comments rss feed?
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[miklb]
no configuration. This is just webmentions
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[miklb]
there is a comment reply webmention plugin
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[chrisaldrich]
apparently I've been asleep at the wheel and missed that one. Where is it hiding?
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[miklb]
so here https://miklb.com/2017/11/2628/ the micro.blog reply came in as a webmention, I replied using the native comment form and it backfeeds to https://micro.blog/eli/181926
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Loqi
[Michael Bishop] Had one of those shower thoughts…apply machine learning to a restaurant POS to better control inventory. Probablying being done, right?
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Loqi
[pfefferle] wordpress-webmention-for-comments: WebMention support for (threaded) comments
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[chrisaldrich]
pfefferle++ indeed!
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Loqi
pfefferle has 26 karma in this channel (36 overall)
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[miklb]
I would eventually love to be able to reply to a tweet reply natively in WordPress
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[chrisaldrich]
I suspect that that plugin might be able to tie into the Brid.gy publish plugin to do just that...
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[miklb]
in theory I agree. I haven’t looked at exactly where I would need to add it though
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[chrisaldrich]
You'd just want a character counter to be able to watch the length, but one could probably adapt Peter Molnar's https://wordpress.org/plugins/character-count-for-post-content-excerpt/
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Loqi
[Peter Molnar] Description Adds a very simple character counter next to word counter for the content and a character counter for the excerpt. Works with both visual and text content editors. Screenshots the added fields Installation Upload conte...
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[miklb]
yeah, I hacked a little counter into my excerpt field but it doesn’t take into account the nuances of how Twitter counts characters
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[chrisaldrich]
Peter's is fairly old, so it probably doesn't take those into account either...
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petermolnar
someone summoned me
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petermolnar
reading back
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petermolnar
right, so that plugin is SIMPLE
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petermolnar
it's literally just a character count
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[chrisaldrich]
petermolnar, not summoned, just mentioned in a positive light 🙂
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[chrisaldrich]
petermolnar++ for WordPress work from years ago...
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Loqi
petermolnar has 30 karma in this channel (48 overall)
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petermolnar
about the reply-with-comment: I did that as well a while ago, with my alternative (now abandoned) wp webmention plugin, but I had a hard time trying to add permalinks per comment
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petermolnar
I wonder what pfefferle did with that
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[chrisaldrich]
I think that GWG added some additional fields for u-syndication as well as some parsing in the last year.
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[chrisaldrich]
I know there was some discussion about permalinks for comments, but they didn't go anywhere (or were scrapped).
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[miklb]
I think the issue is with pagination
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GWG
What was the question?
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Loqi
question is a post type for soliciting answer replies, which are then typically up/down voted by others and then displayed underneath the question post ordered by highest positive vote count rather than time ordered https://indieweb.org/question
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[chrisaldrich]
One can target comments with #fragmention-esque URLs
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petermolnar
[chrisaldrich] I have a few other plugins never pushed to the wp repo: https://github.com/petermolnar?utf8=%E2%9C%93&tab=repositories&q=wp&type=&language=
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GWG
I added fragments and syndication.
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[chrisaldrich]
We're just pulling in everyone this morning. Rub the magic lamp and see which genie appears.
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[chrisaldrich]
miklb mentioned wordpress comment webmentions to micro.blog working a bit ago.
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[chrisaldrich]
I wonder if colinwalker is aware of that functionality? I suspect he'd use it constantly if he did.
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[chrisaldrich]
What do you call an /itch that you don't know you already have?
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snarfed
"product market fit" 😂
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[chrisaldrich]
Peter, thanks! I think I had one or two bookmarked, but don't think I'd seen all of them.
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GWG
snarfed said it best when I told him that locations in comments now worked with bridgy
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GWG
Unintentional integration
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snarfed
emergent++ 👍
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Loqi
emergent has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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sknebel
virtual HWC now starting!
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG++ for simple location (That was one of the coolest indieweb things I've seen in the wild recently)
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Loqi
gwg has 219 karma in this channel (266 overall)
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[chrisaldrich]
Did it get documented?
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[chrisaldrich]
What is Simple Location?
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Loqi
Simple Location is an Indieweb-friendly WordPress plugin that enhances posts with location information https://indieweb.org/Simple_Location
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[chrisaldrich]
I'm trying to think of which post I saw it on last week now...
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GWG
I should document that and so much more
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Loqi
totally
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GWG
You need a way to only show posts and comments with location
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GWG
Someone open an issue
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[chrisaldrich]
My office power just went out for a bit. Have to change camps.
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG an issue for simple location you mean?
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[colinwalker]
chrisaldrich I’ve had WordPress comments from my blog generate webmentions on micro.blog but there can be an issue: comments from others have shown as being from me. It’s all to do with recognising if they’re from a recognised user. I mentioned it to manton and he was going to look at whether they should all get sent or just those from a recognised user.
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sketchess
good morning
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[chrisaldrich]
I just filed one for Bridgy publish just to document the other Twitter threaded comment thing miklb brought up
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GWG
chrisaldrich, to search for comments and posts with location
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sketchess
vHWC is open
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sknebel
(I forgot to adjust the timezones)
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[manton]
colinwalker I'm going to look at this more today and get to the bottom of it. Do you have a good example link for the problem?
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG feel free to file issues in repos for documentation and assign them to me. I'll work on them the best I can.
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[colinwalker]
manton I noticed the issue because of the comments on this post: https://colinwalker.blog/2017/10/25/25102017-0736/
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Loqi
[Colin Walker] I have written a few times about my struggles with pen and paper as a creative medium rather than using an electronic device. The inconvenience, the awkwardness, the much slower pace at which I can get my thoughts down... I've had a selection of sm...
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[colinwalker]
Those from a non-m.b commenter came through as me
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[chrisaldrich]
Off to find a power source and Wi-Fi...
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snarfed
unrelated news: bridgy hit 900k webmentions sent, and almost 9M silo responses. woo! i'll probably have to throw a party at 1M wms sent. https://brid.gy/#stats
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sknebel
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 286 karma in this channel (308 overall)
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snarfed
(s/sent/sent successfully)
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[manton]
colinwalker And do you have Microformats for the user comment? On first glance I'm not seeing how Micro.blog could tell who wrote the comment when it receives the Webmention.
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[manton]
Or maybe the issue is just that it sees your domain name and matches that up. That's likely.
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aaronpk
it looks like the comments are missing an h-card
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Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 3 hours, 53 minutes ago: wtf https://loqisaur.tumblr.com/ ?
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sketchess
pity
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[colinwalker]
I’m using pfefferle’s Webmention for Comments plugin. aaronpk so, you think I should add h-cards to them? I can modify my template. manton maybe so.
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aaronpk
yes definitely, if you're going to add microformats markup when showing comments, then the markup should be complete
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[manton]
I've checked the Micro.blog code and I don't think it handles this case. It isn't expecting a comment on a web page that has other comments, it's expecting more of a personal site with a new post that is a reply back.
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[colinwalker]
I’ll have a look at updating things.
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aaronpk
take a look at the parsed result of that blog post and you'll see what I mean. https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcolinwalker.blog%2F2017%2F10%2F25%2F25102017-0736%2F
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aaronpk
here's a recommendation for how to mark up comments https://indieweb.org/comments#How_to_markup
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[manton]
In the ping, are you sending your post URL with a "#comment_id" at the end to point to the individual comment? And do other tools handle this?
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[colinwalker]
🤷‍♂️ whatever WordPress and the plugins do by default.
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[colinwalker]
aaronpk I see the problem, the markup really isn’t clear and doesn’t differentiate.
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[colinwalker]
I never used to have native comments enabled when adding Indieweb functionality so am finding various things that need fixing.
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[manton]
Yeah, it's not clear to me what to do in this case... Seems like I'd have to look at `#comment-id` in the URL and find the specific comment in the HTML. Right now it assumes there's one post on the page, not multiple comments.
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Loqi
[csarven] #445 publish: support fragment for identifying individual entry
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Loqi
[OliverJAsh] #681 listen: support hash/fragment permalinks to entries inside feeds
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[manton]
Oh, actually the pings I'm getting are in this form: https://colinwalker.blog/2017/10/25/25102017-0736/?replytocom=52884
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Loqi
[Chris Lovie-Tyler] I’ve got a Moleskine pocket notebook at the moment (got it for half the usual price on the Book Depository), but when I’ve filled that I’m going to try Field Notes. They look a lot better (thickness-wise) for actually carrying round in your poc...
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[manton]
Which in a web browser redirects, but I think when downloaded by an app, only shows the single post. That explains why the text is coming through correctly, just not the user.
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[colinwalker]
Got you.
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[manton]
Good news: those special "replytocome" URLs _do_ have a p-author and h-card.
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[colinwalker]
There is only my h-card on the page though.
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[manton]
Actually no, WordPress is being clever here. If you download the source of that page with curl or something that isn't a web browser, it produces different HTML, and the h-card is on the comment author.
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[colinwalker]
Clever! But it won’t hurt for me to do it properly 😉
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[manton]
Cool. I'll make some tweaks on the Micro.blog side to handle this case better. Thanks!
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[colinwalker]
Nice thanks. And thanks aaronpk
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aaronpk
oh wow
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GWG
I tried to do comment permalinks with an actual template in the theme. I should reconsider that as a special plugin
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[colinwalker]
BTW aaronpk - bit off topic but have you had feed changes/issues with percolator? I had all posts reappear in Feedly and the Podcasts app complaining it couldn’t get episode 9.
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sketchess
a good nights sleep....
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aaronpk
yes, i broke the feed yesterday by using a relative URL for the mp3 file. but it's fixed now.
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aaronpk
also I hadn't realized the unique ID field wasn't being set so I set that and i think some clients are treating them as new posts.
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[colinwalker]
Ah cool. Just thought I’d check.
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[tantek]
What is goo.gl?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "goo.gl" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10vc
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[tantek]
What is a link shortener?
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Loqi
link shortener is a website that creates a shortlink (typically for any link) for use in space constrained contexts like SMS, Twitter pre-tco and other silos with post length limitations, and have been criticized for worsening link fragility https://indieweb.org/link_shortener
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[tantek]
Please create and add to ^^^ with the example of the link that was deliberately broken by google
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@DreamHost
Attention, #PDX dwellers! If you want to connect with your local #WordPress community, check out @indiewebcamp! http://bit.ly/2mWH9Fz
(twtr.io/1XryPzDpr8s)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "@khurtwilliams A bunch of us are working on making it all easier in steps, but we're also doing it on a volunteer basis. Some of" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-11-01 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/khurtwilliams-a-bunch-of-us-are-working-on-making-it
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[colinwalker]
I think I’ve got my microformats markup sorted for comments now.
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KartikPrabhu
[colinwalker]: posting or receiving comments through Webmention?
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[colinwalker]
@KartikPrabhu it was just that the markup was incomplete (missing h-cards) leading to potential author issues.
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Doing things properly" by Colin Walker on 2017-11-01 https://colinwalker.blog/2017/11/01/doing-things-properly/
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Loqi
[snarfed] #119 when an mf2 property has multiple values, always extract and use just the first
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snarfed
damn, wrong channel, disregard
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tantek
do I dare put my /pay link on my home page?
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tantek
or is that crass?
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aaronpk
"pay" isn't really a solicitation to pay you, so i think it's fine
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aaronpk
it's not like someone would interpret that as they should give you money because they are reading your website
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tantek
you use "tip" right?
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aaronpk
well i have both
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tantek
I don't see either text on your home page
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aaronpk
yeah not on my home page
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aaronpk
i link to "tip" at the bottom of my popular blog post
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tantek
I have follow, contact on my home page
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tantek
so I'm going to add to that
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aaronpk
and sometimes in my email signature when i answer unsolicited email questions
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tantek
that makes more sense
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tantek
also not sure what I would do if people randomly started sending me $
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tantek
like does that mean there's some abstract quid pro quo?
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tantek
I'm thinking with "Tip" with title text "Did you read something of value here and want to encourage more posts like that? Feel free to tip a small amount and mention which topics you enjoyed!"
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tantek
trying to keep the wording generic that anyone could use on their site
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tantek
I kinda want to encourage IndieWeb authors/bloggers to get incidentally paid
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tantek
"topics (no specific products please)"
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tantek
ok let's see if I can deploy that above the fold on mobile: Follow, Tip, Contact
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aaronpk
why no specific products? sounds like a review!
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tantek
I don't want to be paid to review products
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tantek
that feels like potential CoI
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aaronpk
only if it's paid by the person who makes the product ;-)
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tantek
or someone asking for a competitor's product to be reviewed which they know / expect to get a bad review
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tantek
either way I don't like the connection
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tantek
now which emoji. $ seems too transactional
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tantek
maybe one of 🎁👏 👍
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tantek
medium uses the claps thing right
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tantek
what is 👏
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tantek
oops double-r
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tantek
what is 👏
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Loqi
payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site https://indieweb.org/%F0%9F%91%8F
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tantek
switching to 💬 for contact
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tantek
instead of the person head
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@sdepolo
Whenever you think to post on silos (FB,Tw, IG, etc), consider posting to your own site instead. - @t #indieWeb https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/DNl6r-QUIAI3q31.jpg
(twtr.io/1XsbMybsErj)
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tantek
hey when did Lanyrd go read-only?!?
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tantek
what is Lanyrd
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Loqi
Lanyrd is an event silo focused on conferences https://indieweb.org/Lanyrd
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tantek
anyone hear about this?
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tantek
hey it's #nanowrimo!
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tantek
benwerd is doing it
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tantek
publishing his updates on https://outmap.org/
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tantek
handcoded
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tantek
updated straight from git
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tantek
all he has to do is commit
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tantek
pure "his text editor" HTML
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tantek
50k words in the month of November (one story)
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tantek
got to be fiction, can't be technical documentation
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tantek
everyone come up with a /2018-01-01-commitments
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tantek
and add yourself to it!
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tantek
tantek: committed to coming up with a commitment by next HWC SF :)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club: March 8, 2017" by Ben Werdmüller on 2017-03-06 https://werd.io/2017/homebrew-website-club-march-8-2017
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Indieweb Dinner" by Ben Werdmüller on 2013-11-01 https://werd.io/2013/indieweb-dinner
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "An #Indieweb catchup over food and drink" by Ben Werdmüller on 2013-10-22 https://werd.io/2013/an-indieweb-catchup-over-food-and-drink
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Ben Werdmüller on 2014-01-07 https://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb
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tantek
whoa what
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benwerd
^ What was that?
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tantek
superfeedr memory loss?
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tantek
Stacey is looking for a solution to the reader problem, and finds social media silos better for discovery and inspiration
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benwerd
Specifically, how can you find thematically relevant posts from people you don't know already?
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tantek
is that discovery? serendipty? see also? you might also like?
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benwerd
The silo version is following a hashtag - a topic - rather than a set of people
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tantek
the silo version is also the "algorithms" that now show you stuff that your friends liked etc.
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[keithjgrant]
I can conceive of a world where popular readers can offer that functionality
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KartikPrabhu
benwerd: tantek: I find stuff I don't already follow, because people I do follow repost/like/reply-to it
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mblaney
tantek I bought indiepay.me with the idea of working on a distributed payment system....
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mblaney
but as usual buying a domain is the easy bit, finding the time to work on a project is much harder :-)
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[kevinmarks]
yes, retweets are that
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aaronpk
mblaney: what did you have in mind for a payment mechanism?
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aaronpk
A few years ago barnaby and I were tossing around the idea of keeping a debt ledger between us synced via webmention. I think there's a post that I owe him money for dinner on my site somewhere
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mblaney
aaronpk :-) haha yes that plus syndicating it to a mutual 3rdparty, such as indiepay.me which could track your balance against multiple people.
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Loqi
nice
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mblaney
having the 3rdparty site keep a copy of the payment webmentions means they don't rely on the publishing state of one person, gives both parties a guarantee that the transaction was recorded somewhere.
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mblaney
....let me know if this is too #dev
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mblaney
and then you can do other interesting things too, maybe you only want to start a transaction with someone who is in credit.
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tantek
mblaney++ really like the thinking here, also nice domain! looking forward to see what you do with it!
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Loqi
mblaney has 19 karma in this channel (22 overall)
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tantek
mblaney from a desired UX perspective, this conversation definitely is on topic for #indieweb.
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tantek
for implementation details / brainstorming yes we can take it to #Indieweb-dev
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tantek
one nice thing about your idea of a 3rd party site to keep copy / track of the webmentions is that it resembles the existing real world mechanism of "escrows"
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tantek
which are used to "clear" transactions
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tantek
what is indiepayment
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indiepayment" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10vg
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tantek
hmm I thought we had a page somewhere capturing this brainstorming
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KartikPrabhu
what is payment?
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KartikPrabhu
what is payment?
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Loqi
payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site https://indieweb.org/payment
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: ^
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tantek
!tell mblaney perhaps add an "Escrow" section inside https://indieweb.org/payment#Brainstorming documenting the 3rd party ideas
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
thanks KartikPrabhu
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tantek
interesting feedback from a friend on the "+Follow" button / link on my site, they expected it to go to or pop-out something that allowed them to follow me on various sites, to choose from a set
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tantek
they did not expect a generic "+Follow" to just go directly to Follow on Twitter