#indieweb 2017-11-02

2017-11-02 UTC
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snarfed [discussing https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/pull/119]
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Loqi [snarfed] #119 when an mf2 property has multiple values, always extract and use just the first
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snarfed damn, wrong channel, disregard
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@R4P3_NET @DreamHost @indiewebcamp Hello @DreamHost, can you pass this on to your supervisor? https://r4p3.net/threads/secure-wordpress-hosting.5579/ (twitter.com/_/status/925889099394965504)
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aaronpk wat
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tantek do I dare put my /pay link on my home page?
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tantek or is that crass?
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aaronpk "pay" isn't really a solicitation to pay you, so i think it's fine
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aaronpk it's not like someone would interpret that as they should give you money because they are reading your website
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tantek you use "tip" right?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk well i have both
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tantek I don't see either text on your home page
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aaronpk yeah not on my home page
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aaronpk i link to "tip" at the bottom of my popular blog post
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tantek I have follow, contact on my home page
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tantek so I'm going to add to that
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aaronpk and sometimes in my email signature when i answer unsolicited email questions
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tantek that makes more sense
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tantek also not sure what I would do if people randomly started sending me $
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tantek like does that mean there's some abstract quid pro quo?
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aaronpk heh
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tantek I'm thinking with "Tip" with title text "Did you read something of value here and want to encourage more posts like that? Feel free to tip a small amount and mention which topics you enjoyed!"
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tantek trying to keep the wording generic that anyone could use on their site
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tantek I kinda want to encourage IndieWeb authors/bloggers to get incidentally paid
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tantek "topics (no specific products please)"
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tantek ok let's see if I can deploy that above the fold on mobile: Follow, Tip, Contact
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aaronpk why no specific products? sounds like a review!
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tantek I don't want to be paid to review products
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tantek that feels like potential CoI
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aaronpk only if it's paid by the person who makes the product ;-)
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tantek or someone asking for a competitor's product to be reviewed which they know / expect to get a bad review
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tantek either way I don't like the connection
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aaronpk ha
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aaronpk fair
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tantek now which emoji. $ seems too transactional
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aaronpk ?
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tantek lol
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tantek maybe one of ?? ?
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tantek medium uses the claps thing right
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aaronpk yup
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tantek what is ?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/%F0%9F%91%8F
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tantek wat
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tantek oops double-r
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tantek what is ?
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Loqi payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site https://indieweb.org/%F0%9F%91%8F
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tantek switching to ? for contact
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tantek instead of the person head
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@sdepolo Whenever you think to post on silos (FB,Tw, IG, etc), consider posting to your own site instead. - @t #indieWeb https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/DNl6r-QUIAI3q31.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/925906141514645504)
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tantek hey when did Lanyrd go read-only?!?
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tantek what is Lanyrd
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Loqi Lanyrd is an event silo focused on conferences https://indieweb.org/Lanyrd
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tantek anyone hear about this?
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tantek hey it's #nanowrimo!
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tantek benwerd is doing it
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tantek publishing his updates on https://outmap.org/
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tantek handcoded
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tantek updated straight from git
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tantek all he has to do is commit
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tantek pure "his text editor" HTML
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tantek 50k words in the month of November (one story)
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tantek got to be fiction, can't be technical documentation
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tantek ...
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tantek everyone come up with a /2018-01-01-commitments
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tantek and add yourself to it!
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tantek tantek: committed to coming up with a commitment by next HWC SF :)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Homebrew Website Club: March 8, 2017" by Ben Werdmüller on 2017-03-06 https://werd.io/2017/homebrew-website-club-march-8-2017
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Indieweb Dinner" by Ben Werdmüller on 2013-11-01 https://werd.io/2013/indieweb-dinner
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Loqi [superfeedr] "An #Indieweb catchup over food and drink" by Ben Werdmüller on 2013-10-22 https://werd.io/2013/an-indieweb-catchup-over-food-and-drink
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Introduction to the IndieWeb" by Ben Werdmüller on 2014-01-07 https://werd.io/2014/introduction-to-the-indieweb
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tantek whoa what
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benwerd ^ What was that?
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tantek superfeedr memory loss?
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tantek Stacey is looking for a solution to the reader problem, and finds social media silos better for discovery and inspiration
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benwerd Specifically, how can you find thematically relevant posts from people you don't know already?
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tantek is that discovery? serendipty? see also? you might also like?
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benwerd The silo version is following a hashtag - a topic - rather than a set of people
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tantek the silo version is also the "algorithms" that now show you stuff that your friends liked etc.
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[keithjgrant] I can conceive of a world where popular readers can offer that functionality
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KartikPrabhu benwerd: tantek: I find stuff I don't already follow, because people I do follow repost/like/reply-to it
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mblaney tantek I bought indiepay.me with the idea of working on a distributed payment system....
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mblaney but as usual buying a domain is the easy bit, finding the time to work on a project is much harder :-)
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[kevinmarks] yes, retweets are that
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@sdepolo @aiaddysonzhang @nplusg @ZalkaB @Irish_IreneB @marklongbottom_ @MarshaCollier @MadalynSklar @Loulou_Uberkirk @SabrinaCadini @MizMeliz @CathyWassell @SmethurstSocial @thedavepepper @Lollipop_Social @drjoyce_knudsen @catxdavies @IsilSimsek @RebekahRadice @thesmoothfactor @adamsconsulting @alberMoire @GoWithTheProUK Loving your #videoReplyDay replies - moonlight nightcap overlooking the #SFBay after #indieweb. Help me make this happen in #SanDiego, k? https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/925929353958928393/pu/img/9mPQM-bGYiQbUtIC.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/925929538181259264)
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@khurtwilliams Is the openweb dying? https://islandinthenet.com/?p=32681 #IndieWeb #Open #Web #General https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNmQ7uiXUAIst0m.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/925930558265405442)
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aaronpk mblaney: what did you have in mind for a payment mechanism?
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aaronpk A few years ago barnaby and I were tossing around the idea of keeping a debt ledger between us synced via webmention. I think there's a post that I owe him money for dinner on my site somewhere
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mblaney aaronpk :-) haha yes that plus syndicating it to a mutual 3rdparty, such as indiepay.me which could track your balance against multiple people.
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Loqi nice
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mblaney having the 3rdparty site keep a copy of the payment webmentions means they don't rely on the publishing state of one person, gives both parties a guarantee that the transaction was recorded somewhere.
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mblaney ....let me know if this is too #dev
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mblaney and then you can do other interesting things too, maybe you only want to start a transaction with someone who is in credit.
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tantek mblaney++ really like the thinking here, also nice domain! looking forward to see what you do with it!
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Loqi mblaney has 19 karma in this channel (22 overall)
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tantek mblaney from a desired UX perspective, this conversation definitely is on topic for #indieweb.
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tantek for implementation details / brainstorming yes we can take it to #Indieweb-dev
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tantek one nice thing about your idea of a 3rd party site to keep copy / track of the webmentions is that it resembles the existing real world mechanism of "escrows"
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tantek which are used to "clear" transactions
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tantek what is indiepayment
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiepayment" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek hmm I thought we had a page somewhere capturing this brainstorming
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KartikPrabhu what is payment?
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KartikPrabhu what is payment?
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Loqi payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site https://indieweb.org/payment
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KartikPrabhu tantek: ^
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tantek !tell mblaney perhaps add an "Escrow" section inside https://indieweb.org/payment#Brainstorming documenting the 3rd party ideas
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu
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tantek interesting feedback from a friend on the "+Follow" button / link on my site, they expected it to go to or pop-out something that allowed them to follow me on various sites, to choose from a set
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tantek they did not expect a generic "+Follow" to just go directly to Follow on Twitter
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@sl007 @guenterhack T - 2 days https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin (twitter.com/_/status/925985901104304128)
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Zegnat Hellow IndieWeb! Checking in from my bus to Berlin :D
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petermolnar !tell tantek re "tip" that is exactly what I set up a while ago on my page, the text differs based on content and is linking to - due to the lack of better options - paypal.me
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[colinwalker] Good morning Indieweb
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j4y_funabashi morning all
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Loqi j4y_funabashi: snarfed left you a message 4 days, 10 hours ago: hmm, sorry for the trouble! not sure what's up, it worked for my account just now. facebook API seems slow right now though, make sure it fully loaded?
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Loqi j4y_funabashi: snarfed left you a message 4 days, 10 hours ago: (and no, no activity_id required.) if it still doesn't work, try revoking granary's access on https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=applications and then r login on granary
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j4y_funabashi !tell snarfed thanks, I will give that a go
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Good morning all
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agn1 hello
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amz3 héllo all
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Zegnat Hellow
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GWG What a wonderful word, Hello
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agn1 do anyone know mko?
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Zegnat What is mko?
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Loqi Michael K. Owens is a designer and engineer living in San Francisco, CA who loves philosophy, personal data analysis, charity work, cycling, and games https://indieweb.org/mko
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Zegnat Hmm, has anyone played with Facebook's sets yet?
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Zegnat https://photos.app.goo.gl/xHUp6gv1M9Zp5khB2
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Zegnat UI sounds a little like aaronpk's indie photo albums, where you send your post to a specific set. But I am guessing it works more like separate feeds.
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[kevinmarks] Or g+ circles
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jeremycherfas Hello IndieWeb
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[kevinmarks] Hi Jeremy
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jeremycherfas Hello Kevin. Are you going to IWC Berlin?
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sl007 Signal Desktop might be broken #alleskaputt https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Desktop/issues/1673
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Loqi [Janila] #1673 Receiving messages not meant for me while updating desktop version
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[kevinmarks] I'm not, though I will dip into the live stream
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jeremycherfas That was my plan too, although I have not yet located an address for the stream.
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aaronpk I've been getting a lot more of that "I want to write a guest post" and "can I help your website" spam than normal lately
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aaronpk "I recently spent some time on Aaronparecki.com and have an idea that you could implement quickly that would help increase your conversion rates."
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aaronpk No... no you haven't, cause if you've spent any time on aaronparecki.com them you know there is nothing there to convert
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tantek people you know? real people?
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Loqi tantek: petermolnar left you a message 4 hours ago: re "tip" that is exactly what I set up a while ago on my page, the text differs based on content and is linking to - due to the lack of better options - paypal.me
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cweiske I have the same issue
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cweiske SEO agencies
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snarfed yup. more recently. definitely still spam.
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Loqi snarfed: j4y_funabashi left you a message 3 hours, 50 minutes ago: thanks, I will give that a go
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aaronpk It's meant to look like a real person emailing you. They don't even usually have a signature line.
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aaronpk and gmail spam filtering isn't catching them even
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aaronpk probaby cause sometimes they come from gmail accounts
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petermolnar I'm getting those spams as well
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cweiske my most annoying spam source is invitations to visit some science conference or publish in a science journal
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cweiske and only because i published my master thesis at university with my email address :/
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aaronpk wow
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cweiske mostly indian
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snarfed papermills--
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Loqi papermills has -1 karma
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cweiske "International Journal of Electronics Communication and Computer Engineering TM"
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cweiske "Be Our Editorial Member or Reviewer for Physics and Civil Engineering Journals"
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cweiske and so forth
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jeremycherfas I wonder about all this File is corrupt, or image has won a prize spam. Who on earth clicks on those?
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petermolnar re payments, have anyone used https://www.paym.co.uk/ ?
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jeremycherfas I expect it is only UK mobile numbers?
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aaronpk What is Open Badges?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Open Badges" yet. Would you like to create it?
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petermolnar jeremycherfas probably, just like monzo.me is uk postcode only, or cash.me us postcode only :(
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petermolnar I'm sort of astonished that the only effort- and borderless solution still seems to be paypal
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jeremycherfas I could always use my Mom's phone. Not.
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aaronpk I'm not surprised. Money is hard
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petermolnar choose your destiny: money - timezones - localisation
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aaronpk PayPal isn't a money transfer business, it's a fraud prevention business
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jeremycherfas Interesting idea.
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Zegnat I'll choose localisation petermolnar. At least I am multilingual. I studied economics and no way I am touching money ?
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petermolnar Zegnat: . vs , in numbers, datetime insanity, ordering of currency/value... nice!
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Zegnat Just display all dates in iso timestamp format, solves that problem!
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Zegnat Order is hard, true. The Flemish and the Dutch will put me in different sections of the telephone registry, and they even use the same language
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aaronpk what's it called when a site awards you badges or stickers for doing certain things on the site?
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aaronpk foursquare used to have this but they've kinda switched to unlocking stickers and it's a slightly different mechanism now
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jjuran Achievements?
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sknebel achievements?
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petermolnar gamification
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aaronpk yeah achievement
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Zegnat Micro.blog calls them pins I think?
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sknebel although I'm not sure if there is a meaningful difference between badge/achievement/trophy, all of which I've heard in the context of gamification
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk foursquare calls them "badges", micro.blog calls them "pins"
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Zegnat In video gaming "achievement" is definitely the right word.
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Zegnat I think Steam and XBox call then that. Maybe Sony too?
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tantek !tell petermolnar add yourself / site / technique to the /payment#IndieWeb_Examples !
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel treora: are you at Indiewebcamp this weekend?
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treora sknebel: yes!
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sknebel treora: yay
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treora :)
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk looks like it's more common to refer to these as "badges" actually
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dgold i tend to call them all tchotchkes
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tantek badges are overloaded :/
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tantek aaronpk Swarm doesn't call them badges
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aaronpk they don't work that way on swarm anymore either
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aaronpk so it makes sense not to call them badges
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dgold don't they call them stickers?
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aaronpk yeah and you "unlock" the sticker by checking in to certain places, and then you can use the sticker later
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dgold e.g. you clearly have a drinking problem, you've been to two whole bars, have a sticker?
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aaronpk that's the "bender" sticker http://swarm.rocks/stickers/bender
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dgold is still upset that he didn't get his halloween tchotchke from micro.blog
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dgold aaronpk: :)
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sknebel achievements is common in games. Badges seems often use for more "formal" things (merit badges?). reddit has trophies.
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Zegnat you can still get it though, right dgold? I thought manton said it would run for a few days
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dgold Zegnat: oh really? that would be cool. I mentioned Samhain, but obvs that didn't get globbed by whatever system he's using
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Zegnat Listen to... either the latest or the one before of the timetable microcast. He talks about it there. Might also drop some hints as to what words are being checked.
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aaronpk what is a badge?
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Loqi A badge is a visual indicator of completing some sort of accomplishment, usually associated with completing specific tasks within a system https://indieweb.org/badge
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dgold i've been hoovering up microcasts lately
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dgold sadly, I've completed tHoR
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[eddie] dgold: what’s tHoR?
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[miklb] is glad someone asked
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[eddie] lol, I'm addicted to microcasts myself, so always interested in adding more to the app ? It just feels so successful to listen to them because it's so hard to keep up with my long-form podcasts
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dgold the History of Rome
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dgold that _should_ have expanded, sorry
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schmarty [eddie]: what do you use to listen to podcasts?
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schmarty just flipped to an iOS device after his Nexus 5X bricked itself suddenly
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[eddie] Overcast
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dgold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_Rome_(podcast)
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dgold <- also a happy Overcast user
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aaronpk i switched to Castro recently
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schmarty i will have to try it out. i really dislike the default podcasts app
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dgold the voice-boost thing is really good
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sknebel Hm, do podcatchers speak OPML and if yes can someone one with all the microcasts?
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dgold ooooh, that's a really great idea sknebel
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aaronpk just added a bunch i know of to https://indieweb.org/microcast
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sknebel (Or share a list otherwise)
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GWG Afternoon
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sknebel Hi GWG
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GWG What goes on?
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sknebel We were just talking about microcasts. Otherwise, I'm preparing for a weekend of indiewebbing
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dgold just realised that Henrik Carlsson has an OPML with some on it - http://blog.henrikcarlsson.se/wp-links-opml.php
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GWG I am hoping to get into it this weekend.
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dgold eek - url foreshortened - this is the microcasts - http://blog.henrikcarlsson.se/wp-links-opml.php?link_cat=428
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aaronpk nice
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[chrisaldrich] Would it be accurate to say that XFN predated microformats and separately that microformats in some sense grew out of XFN?
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@schnarfed @Harrisonbro I'm sure. thank you though. if you really want to donate, feel free to support @indiewebcamp! https://opencollective.com/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/926154137821110272)
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@alienlebarge @SaraSoueidan Perhaps something can be done with https://indieweb.org/Webmention ? Having a page where people put link of their questions ... (twitter.com/_/status/926161955177615365)
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[kevinmarks] Xfn is arguably the first microformat - we named it after doing it a bit
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[kevinmarks] We used the Technorati wiki for microformats work initially before we set up the microformats.org one
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: foaf predated xfn, right?
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snarfed oh but i guess foaf wasn't html...? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOAF_(ontology)
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[chrisaldrich] thanks kevinmarks, for the history confirmation (and the original work).
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[kevinmarks] Yes, foaf was RDF and there was not an html representation at that point
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[kevinmarks] https://web.archive.org/web/20050116090000/http://developers.technorati.com:80/wiki/
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[chrisaldrich] What is AMA?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AMA" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] What is Ask Me Anything?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Ask Me Anything" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[chrisaldrich] Does anyone have an AMA page on their site versus the common ones on the Reddit silo?
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schmarty hmm. this week in the indieweb audio edition is typically under 10 minutes. does that put it into microcast territory?
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schmarty added to /microcast, anyway
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aaronpk oh yeah i guess so!
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aaronpk schmarty++
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Loqi schmarty has 24 karma in this channel (43 overall)
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aaronpk alright i just booked my flights for indiewebcamp austin!
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schmarty ?
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@sl007 @saschalobo @tomhillenbrand Übermorgen! https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin (twitter.com/_/status/926187278480887810)
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@khurtwilliams @miklb @ChrisAldrich Had I read your “Thoughts on WordPress” section before starting out with IndieWeb my expectations would have been properly set. (twitter.com/_/status/926187853079605250)
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dgold has just discovered quill's post by email
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dgold aaronpk++ for such a marvellous implementation
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Loqi aaronpk has 528 karma in this channel (1461 overall)
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aaronpk oh haha does that still work? I forgot about it!
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Loqi nice
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@sl007 Übermorgen! https://indieweb.org/2017/Berlin [ http://isafdnazi.cf ] https://twitter.com/saschalobo/status/926185768829243392 (twitter.com/_/status/926192673710592000)
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@calum_ryan Cool but no more storms, a few days exploring ahead of IndieWebCamp Berlin https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNqDud0XkAAk9T0.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/926197509986422785)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/me3dia/status/926197470597705733
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[kevinmarks] Is that a site death?
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@me3dia Joe Ricketts just turned off DNAinfo NY & Chi and all the Gothamist sites, deleting from the web more than a decade of journalism. (twitter.com/_/status/926197470597705733)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "““Whose benefits? Whose risks?” As powerful as they are brief, these questions are design tools…” https://ethanmarcotte.com/wrote/seven-into-seven/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-27 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/whose-benefits-whose-risks-as-powerful-as-they-are-brief
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Loqi [superfeedr] "“The web is and will always be the most popular mobile operating system in the world—not iOS or Android.” https://medium.com/swlh/browsers-not-apps-are-the-future-of-mobile-c552752ff75 #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-10-29 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/the-web-is-and-will-always-be-the-most-popular
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GWG Isn't that more of a site homicide?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: I don't think any site dies of natural causes
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GWG Sometimes it is neglect
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