#indieweb 2017-11-15

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jeremycherfas
Good morning IndieWeb
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Zegnat
Mornin’ Jeremy
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Zegnat
Really enjoyed the last Eat This podcast, jeremycherfas! But did you change something about the website? I see a lot of PHP errors.
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jeremycherfas
How are the studies going?
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jeremycherfas
I haven't changed anything, only that I think it is now all HTTPS
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Zegnat
You either just fixed it, or it was a weird PHP fluke
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Zegnat
I was seeing warnings thrown from the Patreon plugin
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jeremycherfas
That is interesting; I know there is an updated version, but I haven't updsted it yet because I have been thinking about switching to Patreon's own plugin.
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ancarda
Hi, does anyone know what day the Homebrew Website Club is (Brighton, UK)? It says 6 to 7:30 but I don’t get back from work until 8 :( so there’s no way I can attend unless it’s on the weekends
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jeremycherfas
Ah, no. There is a Pro version, and I have not upgraded to that. Horrible gigantic splash across the Admin page too. Another reason to dump it.
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[kevinmarks]
I updated noterlive with the 280 limit, though I'm not fully comfortable with it
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Zegnat
ancarda: adactio organises the Brighton one, I don't know how strict they stick to the schedule
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jeremycherfas
Is there a virtual this evening?
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Zegnat
I'll be there and have RSVPd on the wiki.
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jeremycherfas
Let me do that.
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jeremycherfas
How are we supposed to do demos on Mumble?
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Zegnat
We can't really. It is something we have been searching solutions for.
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jeremycherfas
Maybe that's something we can discuss :)
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jeremycherfas
Or, more likely, continue to discuss.
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Zegnat
Gladly!
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Zegnat
sknebel are you calling in this evening?
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@cjk101010
@Frau_Semm Sich nicht auf Facebooks/Twitters/… Regeln einzulassen und auf dem eigenen Blog zu veröffentlichen wäre schonmal ein guter Schritt… #IndieWeb
(twtr.io/1YMKgUyRy2f)
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Zegnat
I would like to talk about automated testing. Trying to find a good way to write tests for LinkExtractor. So if anyone has ideas, pop-in at this evening’s vHWC :D
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ancarda
I don't think I can come on the call -- so if you want we could discuss here?
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ancarda
Do you have a function that accepts a block of HTML and returns the links inside? If so, that could be fairly easy to drop into something like phpspec or phpunit
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ancarda
Given `<a href="http://vanderven.se/martijn">My site</a>`, I should get `["http://vanderven.se/martijn"]` -- like that?
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven
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jeremycherfas
I'd certainly like to learn about testing, so happy to listen.
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sknebel
Zegnat: yes, will join
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Zegnat
ancarda too bad! We use mumble, so you can even call in from your phone. But if you can't that's fine.
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Zegnat
I was looking at phpspec. Just not sure how to make it easy to add new html files as test cases. But that's a topic for the Dev channel.
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[kevinmarks]
mf2 parsera will do the html to link thing, but only for links with rel on.
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Zegnat
One of the reasons I filed the issue on Webmentions was that I thought all u- URLs (as given by mf2 parsers) should count, but that was refuted as they could be coming from DATA elements.
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Zegnat
So I wouldn’t recommend mf2 parsers for link checking per se
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Loqi
[Zegnat] #20 Can’t find the link in the source document, after already detecting it and showing a button
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mlopatka
mlopatka
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks], if you don’t find an event this evening, you are more then welcome to call in on our virtual one, btw!
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schmarty
good (if long) piece on one person's experience with the /silo-death of WebShots: http://reallifemag.com/faded-pictures/
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schmarty
touches on lots of indieweb principles as they relate to losing power when posting to silos.
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[kevinmarks]
(will be on my site soon)
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[kevinmarks]
looking at FHIR subscriptions, and they seem to have something in common with websub - trying to see if they fit. tweet thread https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/930806086436835329
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@kevinmarks
#FHIRdevdays17 @GrahameGrieve: We're here to talk about Subscriptions - https://www.hl7.org/fhir/subscription.html how many here have implemented Subscriptions? More than a handful
(twtr.io/1YMmjo6n_FV)
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sknebel
What is FHIR?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "FHIR" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10wL
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Zegnat
FHIR seems to be some sort of product from Furore Health Informatics. That may or may not be the FHI from FHIR…
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Zegnat
FHIR is Fast Healthcare Interoperability Resources. http://hl7.org/fhir/
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Zegnat
I was wrong. Furore seems to do the event Kevin is at, but FHIR is actually some sort of standards document for information interoperability. At least at first glance.
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[kevinmarks]
it's a big standards effort around healthcare
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sknebel
I like that they have "executive summary", "developer introduction", "clinical introduction" as starting points
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[kevinmarks]
they have a lot of different people to convince
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snarfed
i actually work with HL7/FHIR if you have any q's...but almost certainly unrelated :P
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[kevinmarks]
the subscription sounds a lot like websub to me, in that it is a resource that you create that calls you when things change
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[kevinmarks]
have you got subscription in your FHIR?
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[kevinmarks]
I thought you did, but you're off in the dna mines?
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snarfed
yeah we're not an EMR ourselves, thank god
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snarfed
no clue about fhir subscriptions
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[kevinmarks]
so you write Observations to an EHR from your system?
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snarfed
no, definitely not. we're mainly looking at consuming EHR right now
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snarfed
but still exploratory
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[kevinmarks]
SMART looks good for that
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snarfed
sure! if only FHIR was more widely implemented. still early
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snarfed
(in health care time scales at least :P)
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snarfed
anyway, off topic
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Loqi
FHIR Dev Days Amsterdam 2017-11-15
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@erikerskine
@adactio hi, is there a homebrew website club on this evening?
(twtr.io/1YMuUBH1sH6)
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sknebel
24 minutes until virtual HWC!
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Loqi
I added a countdown scheduled for 2017-11-15 5:30pm CET (#6211)
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Zegnat
That whole thing looks like a very interesting market. We talked about some genome stuff over drinks in Berlin, and the pros and cons of publishing my DNA on my site.
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Zegnat
(Something I considered at one point.)
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ancarda
I'll listen in if that is ok with everyone, but I can't participate (will be muted on Mumble) as I'm currently at work, and will be commuting by the time there are demos :/
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Zegnat
Whatever works, we never force people to talk
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sknebel
(and don't stick to time tables generally ;))
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snarfed
ooh thanks KevinMarks!
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@schmarty
Come on out tonight for another meeting of @HWCBaltimore! Work on your personal website, learn about the #IndieWeb, and build a web for you (not them)! https://twitter.com/HWCBaltimore/status/930128091552403457
(twtr.io/1YMwPGi4BoG)
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Loqi
virtual HWC!
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sknebel
virtual HWC starting now on the /Mumble server!
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[kevinmarks]
Now I'm thinking about websub and medical records, I'm wondering about webmention for them
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Zegnat
I want in on that. I have been thinking about publishing certain records, for fun. Probably starting with the subscription of my glasses
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[kevinmarks]
Rolf Hut handed out little sensors to attach to your badge to record your temperature
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Zegnat
Internet connected?
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rmk1
hey
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rmk1
hello everyone
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sknebel
hi rmk1
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rmk1
sorry web IRC is not working on my end, have a good day
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rmk2
oh I think it's working now :)
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rmk2
anyway I have a problem getting webmention working on my wordpress so I guess I'm in the wrong channel. See you!
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sknebel
What is exist?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "exist" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10wM
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sknebel
What is exist.io?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "exist.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10wN
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rmk2
What is love?
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rmk2
x)
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[kevinmarks]
the temperature sensors write to a FHIR server
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@ChrisAldrich
Our friends at the #IndieWeb have some advice/help for sending data to @InternetArchive https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive #DtMH2017
(twtr.io/1YN4eAbPn3U)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Our friends at the #IndieWeb have some advice/help for sending data to @InternetArchive https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive #DtMH2017" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-11-15 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/our-friends-at-the-indieweb-have-some-advicehelp-for-sending
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Zegnat
[kevinmarks], that sounds really interesting. I would track my body temp for a while and see what that looks like!
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@ChrisAldrich
#DtMH2017: If you need additional examples of site deaths like mummify.it to underline @mart1nkle1n's point: https://indieweb.org/site_deaths
(twtr.io/1YNB9R7q4eV)
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@benjaminparry
🤔 Homebrewing again - Attempting an automated POSSE webmention via brid.gy at tonight’s Homebrew Website Club: http://benjamin.parry.is/collecting/thoughts/2017/11/homebrewing-again/
(twtr.io/1YNGPCU8tu8)
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@ChrisAldrich
For citations, @Regina2SU, you could use the W3C's Webmention protocol for sending/receiving notifications https://indieweb.org/webmention
(twtr.io/1YNHErVnoG0)
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schmarty
hey folks! for those not in -meta, i've put up planning for IndieWebCamp Baltimore 2018!
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schmarty
please take a look and register your interest and date preferences for IWC Baltimore! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Baltimore
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[mrkrndvs]
Hi from Australia. I'm involved in K-12 education, but am interested in the future and potential of #IndieWeb
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[mrkrndvs]
I have been hesitant in reaching out, but my webmentions are playing up (https://readwriterespond.com). I have received some help from chrisaldrich (http://boffosocko.com/2017/09/17/setting-up-indieweb-replies-in-wordpress/) and they have worked before. I am not sure if there are any common things to look for?
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[mrkrndvs]
I am working with WP and have the #indieweb plugins. I also have Jetpack and have unticked so I get facepiles. I also have Wordfence.running. I added the code to the theme to filter webmentions. However, it is a problem both ways, as no one is being pinged from my site it would seem
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schmarty
hi [mrkrndvs] ! they've been quiet in here today but there should be some wordpress folks along at some point to help debug.
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Zegnat
[miklb] (ping) was in earlier, he might have some ideas
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schmarty
if you're in the IndieWebCamp slack, you can also try the wordpress channel (#indieweb-wordpress if you're on IRC)
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cweiske
a while ago we discussed about podcast transcription. I finished my first transcription and wrote about it (german!, but the link list at the end is english) - http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/podcast-transkript.htm
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Loqi
[Christian Weiske] Transkript für Logbuch Netzpolitik #232
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schmarty
cweiske++ neat!
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Loqi
cweiske has 95 karma in this channel (122 overall)
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tantek
[chrisaldrich]++ for connecting the DtMH2017 folks with #indieweb!
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Loqi
chrisaldrich has 44 karma in this channel (58 overall)
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[kevinmarks]
TWiG time - things to cover?
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tantek
IWC Berlin?
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tantek
and upcoming IWC Austin!
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[miklb]
someone rang?
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[miklb]
there has been an issue with some installs where the mbstring php extension isn’t installed causing an error with the semantic-linkbacks plugin and webmentions failing.
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[miklb]
this would be reflected in error logs
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tantek
wow indieweb is the first search result for "NASCAR problem" and even shows a preview on Google!
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tantek
wondering if it's worth documenting these on an SEO page
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tantek
what is SEO
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Loqi
SEO is an acronym for Search Engine Optimization which refers to the practice and results of publishing pages and permalinks on the web in order to rank better (earlier/higher) in web search engine results https://indieweb.org/seo
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tantek
oh boy: "advanced muting with regular expressions."
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[mrkrndvs]
Thanks schmarty I must have overlooked that. Would make a lot more sense to post it there 👍
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Favorite tweet by @ChrisAldrich" by Scott Kingery on 2017-11-15 http://techlifeweb.com/favorite-tweet-by-chrisaldrich-8/
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "In honor of Dodging the Memory Hole 2017 this week, for free (hosting and domain registration not included) I&#8217;ll offer to build one journalist or academic a basic IndieWeb-capable WordPress-based portfolio website to display and archive their personal work. Preference will be given to those in attendance at the conference, but any who need an &#8220;author &#8230; Continue reading """ by Chris Aldrich on 2017-11-15 http://boffosocko.com/2017/11/15/indieweb-capable-website-for-a-journalist/
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@ChrisAldrich
In honor of #DtMH2017, I'll offer to build one journalist or academic a basic #IndieWeb-capable WordPress-based portfolio website to display and archive their personal work. Reply by 11/25/17 to enter. Details: http://boffosocko.com/2017/11/15/indieweb-capable-website-for-a-journalist/
(twtr.io/1YNcQxpyk2w)
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tantek
[chrisaldrich]++ great offer!
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Loqi
chrisaldrich has 45 karma in this channel (59 overall)
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j12t
Hey everybody, I'm thinking of creating a very user-friendly end-to-end tutorial -- text, screen shots, screen videos perhaps -- for How To Set Up a Perfect Indieweb Site on Amazon EC2. From start to finish, documenting every click and command.
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j12t
And I'm looking for collaborator(s) if anybody is interested.
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aaronpk
"very easy" and "amazon" anything do not tend to go together, sounds like a challenge!
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j12t
aaronpk :-) Dave Winer did a "EC2 for Poets" some years back, and it apparently worked for some non-techie poets.
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j12t
I've done a "how to set up Nextcloud from scratch with TLS on EC2 in 5 min" video ... so it can be done
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j12t
admittedly that was less than clear, I was trying to be as fast as possible :-)
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tantek
j12t I'm also skeptical about EC2 being "very user-friendly" for anything
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[miklb]
not sure what you had in mind, but there are tutorials out there on deploying Jekyll from GitHub with CI like Travis/CircleCI to an s2 bucket. There are already a few tools for IW Jekyll
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[miklb]
s3 lol
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j12t
I was thinking of either Wordpress with the Indieweb plugins, or Known, so it's a fully "active" site.
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aaronpk
tbh digitalocean or linode would be far easier than amazon ec2 for that type of thing
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tantek
I think I would agree with [miklb]'s instincts toward something static
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[miklb]
DO has a one click WP install
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aaronpk
but that's a very particular kind of audience you're going for if you're targeting a VPS at all
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tantek
something people can setup and if they forget about, it takes zero maintenance to keep it up & running and not vuln
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tantek
whereas *anything* php/mysql requires regular software updates for vulns
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tantek
which is basically setting someone up with a periodic time tax
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tantek
that they might not even know they have
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tantek
and thus setting them up for failure when they don't do it
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j12t
IMHO anybody who runs their own site has a periodic time tax, if for nothing else than moderating comments/spam. Otherwise what's the point of the site?
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tantek
j12t not true. e.g. I have need to moderate any comments/spam :P
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tantek
have *no need to
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tantek
point of the site is to have a a presence on the web you control and own
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tantek
not other people's comments
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tantek
that's secondary at best
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tantek
see also /why
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j12t
So I'm not proposing to solve all the world's problems or do the absolutely best / most agreeable thing. I'd just like to have at least one (could be several) extremely detailed end-to-end tutorial how to get Wordpress or Known up the Indieweb style.
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j12t
Obviously I'd use UBOS for that, because it becomes much simpler. EC2 isn't going to be simpler, but it just boils down to "accept the default 5 times in the wizard" in my experience.
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tantek
j12t neither of those is gen 3 ready IMO
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j12t
Possibly so. But there's nothing wrong in making it more documented and less time consuming for previous gens either.
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[miklb]
any additional documentation on the WordPress side of configuring would be greatly appreciated, however the manner of getting it up on the web.
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j12t
miklb: that's exactly what I had in mind. "And now we will click here so we accomplish X".
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tantek
j12t agreed with "more documented and less time consuming for previous gens"
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tantek
just wanted to set expectations that "very user-friendly end-to-end" is not there, not even close
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tantek
TBH micro.blog is the closest right now
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j12t
tantek: fair point.
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j12t
micro.blog only exists on their site right now, right? So I can't run it on a server / host I choose.
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tantek
no I think they do domain hosting/aliasing?
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tantek
but yes only runs on their "server"
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j12t
So I can bring my domain name, but not run it on my server?
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tantek
right that is my understanding
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j12t
Which is fine, but I personally woulnd't want that -- susceptible to site death.
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tantek
j12t, like app.net sure
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tantek
I understand that concern. however at least micro.blog has the most indieweb building blocks support yet of any service like it
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tantek
which means it has a better chance of being part of something larger with network effects
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tantek
which means it should have a better chance of survival
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j12t
Here's what I'm thinking. 1) Outline: to run your own Indieweb Wordpress site, you need to do the following XXX steps (choose a host/server, log on/..., install Wordpress, install plugins, configure this/that etc).
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tantek
j12t - yes that has been thought before
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tantek
what is getting started with wordpress
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Loqi
By using WordPress on your own domain, you are already a part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support IndieWeb philosophies https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress
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j12t
2) some of those steps are the exact same regardless where WP runs, so we could document once)
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tantek
j12t ^^^ rather than re-invent, see what you can improve there
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j12t
3) some depend on provider, like EC2 vs cpanel
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j12t
4) Build one or more trails completely through, starting from nothing, to everything, leave out no steps
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tantek
j12t - can you incorporate your brainstorm into the existing work on that ^^^ ?
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j12t
Absolutely. If nobody complains, I will be happy to refactor suitable places on the wiki into such trails.
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j12t
And add video. It makes a world of difference for configuring software.
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tantek
j12t - join #indieweb-wordpress and chat about it with GWG and [chrisaldrich] who have been working hard on iterating that with experience with actual WordPress users
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j12t
DIdn't even know this channel existed.
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j12t
So focus on Wordpress or Known? I think Wordpress first ...
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tantek
yes - WordPress first as there is an active community there
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GWG
I'm biased. But I have a good reason
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tantek
in #Indieweb-wordpress
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j12t
GWG that's what all biased people say :-P
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tantek
that being said, there's also some active folks in #knownchat
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tantek
what is getting started with known
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Loqi
Getting Started with Known describes who could use Known for their web presence, and how to get started with it https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_Known
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tantek
j12t ^^^ you can help there too
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tantek
I'm in both channels for exactly that reason
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tantek
to try to incrementally help both of those become better for new users
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j12t
I want an entirely different level of detail than a page like this. Like if there is a tar file to unpack (as an example), I want the exact command with the exact syntax
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tantek
j12t - great - discuss that in #knownchat!
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j12t
tantek: yes, I have been hanging out and asking questions there for some time ...
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tantek
j12t: did you ask who is maintaining that page and/or if you could help edit / improve it?
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j12t
Well, according to the history of Getting Started with Known, some guy called tantek has been doing most of the edits :-)
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j12t
What about this: I get my thoughts in order, and create a few (separate, unlinked) pages. I solicit feedback and improvements from IRC. I can do the low-level install part, but I'm not quite the right guy to get, say, bridgy optimally integrated. Would love some help on this.
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j12t
Once iterations pass the smell test of the community, we integrate the new pages with the existing ones. (link/merge/replace/improve/whatever)
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aaronpk
Incremental improvements in place are always welcome too
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j12t
Let's do both. I just don't want to create a construction site right in the middle of something that currently looks reasonably nice :-)
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[manton]
j12t Catching up... It's an interesting question of whether "site deaths" applies when you have your own domain name and the content is portable. Technically yes, any hosting platform can shut down. Micro.blog-hosted sites are compatible with Jekyll for this reason, so it's easy to move.
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[jeremycherfas]
J12t I can help, even if it is only testing your script.
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[jeremycherfas]
@tantek I like micro.blog a lot too, but I would argue that at the moment WithKnown is more indieweb capable out of the box. Of course, that may change as mb adds bookmarks , rsvps etc
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@kevinmarks
“People are being distorted by very finely trained AIs that figure out how to distract them” - timbl https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/15/tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web-net-neutrality #indieweb
(twtr.io/1YPGQoHVwUo)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "“People are being distorted by very finely trained AIs that figure out how to distract them” - timbl https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/15/tim-berners-lee-world-wide-web-net-neutrality #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-11-16 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/people-are-being-distorted-by-very-finely-trained-ais-that
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