j12taaronpk: is there any way in the indiweb.org MediaWiki setup to use custom CSS? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:CSS#See_also I'm having a hard time writing anything comprehensible in my tutorial without some improved formatting ...
jjuranIMO “IndieWeb” or “indieweb” should always be without a space, unless you’re referring to the indie web in general, rather than the indieweb movement in particular
[miklb]So my original idea was to keep social interactions and notes on my current domain and blog on different domains. Now I’m thinking I want to move all my notes & social interactions to a personal domain and do all blogging on my current site. But I can’t wrap my head around if I can still send/receive webmentions for the blog posts.
cdchapman, tantek, cdchapma1, wolftune and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
[mrkrndvs]chrisaldrich could I have one site where a reader can subscribe to one part, say a particular category? Wondering about moving my newsletter from TinyLetter to my Collect site
[chrisaldrich], jackivan88, cweiske, bengo and loicm joined the channel
Zegnat[mrkrndvs] a reader should be able to subscribe to any feed with its own permalink. Those don’t have to be on the root domain. example.com/newsletter could be you feed for the “ether and feature an h-feed for readers
[mlopatka]Hey! not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here it goes: I saw in some very old backlog of Mozilla weekly announcements that IndieWebCamp used to do homebrew Website club in Amsterdam NL. I am wondering if any of the folks who were involved in organizing that would be interested in rekindling a (monthly) homebrew website club event? or more simply, how I can get in touch with the (former?) local organizers of the Amsterdam homebrew webs
ZegnatI have sadly moved from the Netherlands to Sweden. sebsel (seblog.nl) used to organise the NL events with me and he is still interested to get something going again, but limited on time as he recently got a new job and became co-organiser on NMGN.tech meet-ups (Nijmegen).
ZegnatFrank (http://frankmeeuwsen.com/) recently got in touch with me asking about meet-ups in NL too. I forwarded him to sebsel. So there may or may not be something in the pipelines!
[mlopatka]@Zegnat thanks! I am a remote Mozilla employee based in Amsterdam, and I have a space where we could host it. I'd love to see this get rolling again!
[mlopatka]Yeah, I assumed that venue would be a problem. I am working at a shared workspace that is very keen to host this kind of event, weve done a few hackathons in the past so the infrastructure is perfect
ZegnatSebsel probably reacts to webmentions. I am not seeing any other contact info on his page, which surprises me, and makes me a little hesitant to giving out his contact info
[mlopatka]can you just let him know that I'd be very happy to help revive the amsterdam edition of the homebrew website club if he is interested, and that he can reach out to me if interested
ZegnatI loved the time I was living just outside of Amsterdam. Too bad my job gave me several hour commutes daily and I could never connect with the community there :(
sebselOne problem I'm having with HWC is that it's on Wednesday (the only day I cannot take off) and it starts at 17:30 (I work till 18:00 and have to cycle 30 minutes.)
sebsel[mlopatka] Yes! I was in the process of sending you an e-mail about it, but something came up. November 30th might be a nice one, since there's a HWC in Berlin on that day too.
tantekhello mlopatka! fellow mozillian here :) I usually update the WeeklyProject wiki pages with the HWC meetups but you should feel free to update it for HWC Amsterdam also!
sknebelsure, but ripping into someone who has is blog on the decentralized platform he is advocating for, has build the major piece of user-friendly tech for it, ... for not mirroring his tweets there seems a bit over the top, sorry
tantekpoint being here is, claiming authority about decentralization, in posts that *only exist* on a *centralized* silo is a bit self-defeating, and certainly merits questioning the credibility of said authority about decentralization
tantekis it too hard for them to post plain text notes on their decentralized platform / site? if so, perhaps they ought to solve that first before splaining to others?
[miklb]my personal take is rather than questioning credibility, should be an opportunity to share with them how they can extend their decentralization.
sknebelpossibly same reason I post on twitter and don't copy everything to my site: I don't particularly care about the tweets. He has the main blog posts behind is arguments on his homepage, which he does host on his thing. and not everyone building decentralized "X" is interested in replacing twitter specifically
sknebeland I'm a bit wary since I've multiple times recently gotten feedback from people that have issues taking us seriously since we appear to tear negatively into other projects without caring about nuance
tantekI believe that asking these kinds of questions ("Why do you use *only* twitter for some plain text posts instead of your own decentralized system?") will eventually get at the underyling actual problem : UX
tantekif they actually care about helping users (including their own day to day use - selfdogfooding), they would work on the *hardest* problem, UX, instead of futzing with plumbing
sknebelbecause people we want to talk to are there. and if others want to talk to people on there too, we IMHO can't say "nuhu, you have to adapt your blog to talk to twitter first"
Loqiown your data is one of the principles of the IndieWeb and is an encouragement to always post content directly to your own domain with permalinks that you control instead of posting to silos (or only posting copies of your posts to silos per POSSE, and if so, preferably both automatically & with permashortlinks back to your original posts) https://indieweb.org/own_your_data
sknebelyou don't think "using the thing he is advocating for", "has made the one thing of all these projects that actually does really interesting UI things" is more important than the (as you say primitive) use case "plain text notes someone might not care about"?
sknebelplain text notes are not a purpose in themselves. post to twitter to reach people there, that might be a purpose. as long as that purpose is achieved, they might be uninteresting otherwise.
sknebelThe primary message I wanted to bring across "It doesn't look good to shit on good people for trivialities that might only be borderline related". I've had to defend the indieweb community against tht image a few times recently, and it's a shame IMHO exactly because we might have interesting ideas for outsiders.
Loqi[pfrazee] @Iiterature @jessewldn @team_slava @Truebitprotocol @chain @kin_foundation @PROPSproject @VoltzRoad @zeligf @joincolony @relevantfeed @dat_project Two counter points: 1) the value is derived by users directly from an open data network, and is represe...
tantek@pfrazee (+canoe) rather than criticizing indieweb, perhaps consider owning your plain text notes on your decentralized system rather than only tweeting them to the centralized Twitter silo.
tanteksknebel - I only think like maybe 0.1% of the folks tweeting like that deserve that kind of criticism, specifically because of the context / substance of their tweets
tantekthe other 99.9% as you (and [miklb]) pointed out we should be only inviting to participate and collaborate on this instead of asking why aren't they owning their data (yet)
sknebelI mean, if he's comparing current facebook to current indieweb from a "average user" perspective I don't think a goal of "beat facebook" is the wrong one
Loqi[Barnaby Walters] It’s funny — people are saying so much about the #indieweb/federated social web not being a “Facebook Killer”, and yet it’s killed my usage of FB beyond occasional passive consumption.
So, implementors: build stuff which kills your own FB...
Loqi[Barnaby Walters] It’s funny — people are saying so much about the #indieweb/federated social web not being a “Facebook Killer”, and yet it’s killed my usage of FB beyond occasional passive consumption.
So, implementors: build stuff which kills your own FB...
sknebelso I think the best response would have been exactly following barnabys argument. Clarifying what the "better" means. Were they talking UX, specific technical aspects, signup effort, ...
sknebel(I'd assume the economies of scale" is something along the way of "big servers can run cheaper than everyone hosting themselves", with blockchain-money somehow solving hosting costs (?!))
tantekso that methodology of "replace What-Is-Popular-Now" is both unproven, has failure examples, and decidedly NOT the path to being popular (nothing that is popular now set out to replace the thing popular when they started)
tantekso these days, if someone says that's their goal, I basically ignore them, figuring their effort will be irrelevant. there's too many people working on actual more useful things that have a better chance of success
LoqiJust generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-11-17.html
sknebelif they don't get it, disengage and ignore, if they do that was useful. the other thing IMHO is only going to cause them to disengange and ignore
tanteksknebel: right, that's the right question, point is, I didn't have to think/type to go there - the newsletter is now incrementally more useful for collaborative improvement while in draft form
ZegnatOof, that article by Frank. “[…] on the IndieWeb Wiki there is a link to the location where the POSSE concept was first described. Unfortunately that page no longer exists...”
j12t aaronpk: is there any way in the indiweb.org MediaWiki setup to use custom CSS? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:CSS#See_also I'm having a hard time writing anything comprehensible in my tutorial without some improved formatting ...
aaronpk doesn't answer your question exactly, but close: https://indieweb.org/style-guide
@kevinmarks @ckoppelman @Twitter Here, join the future http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/931331696825335808)
Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-11-17.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
[miklb] So my original idea was to keep social interactions and notes on my current domain and blog on different domains. Now I’m thinking I want to move all my notes & social interactions to a personal domain and do all blogging on my current site. But I can’t wrap my head around if I can still send/receive webmentions for the blog posts.
[chrisaldrich] It's doable miklb. You just need to double up on the rel-me links in Twitter and Instagram.
[mrkrndvs] chrisaldrich could I have one site where a reader can subscribe to one part, say a particular category? Wondering about moving my newsletter from TinyLetter to my Collect site
[mlopatka] Hey! not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here it goes: I saw in some very old backlog of Mozilla weekly announcements that IndieWebCamp used to do homebrew Website club in Amsterdam NL. I am wondering if any of the folks who were involved in organizing that would be interested in rekindling a (monthly) homebrew website club event? or more simply, how I can get in touch with the (former?) local organizers of the Amsterdam homebrew webs
Zegnat Frank (http://frankmeeuwsen.com/) recently got in touch with me asking about meet-ups in NL too. I forwarded him to sebsel. So there may or may not be something in the pipelines!
[jeremycherfas] Once again, find myself wishing I lived in Amsterdam.
@ChrisAldrich @cswordpress Kudos on your new wiki userpage! I compiled a page with some resources to make it easier for you to find Indieweb community members to follow: https://indieweb.org/people (twitter.com/_/status/931464232931086336)
[kevinmarks] BTW B. Offers free meetups
@adventure_ext August 14th Meetup Building the Indieweb - Shared from http://Effaustin.org. [http://effaustin.org/2017/07/august-14th-meetup-building-the-indieweb/] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DO2bXc_X4AEUBor.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/931571526633181193)
@Iiterature @pfrazee @team_slava @jessewldn @Truebitprotocol @chain @kin_foundation @PROPSproject @VoltzRoad @zeligf @joincolony @relevantfeed @dat_project Let's be explicit about the benefits and tradeoffs. Also the potential for incentives that tokens introduce. IMO secure ledgers w/o incentives don't get us out of today's megasilo reality; indieweb/dat model doesn't have economies of scale vs. a corp or token (twitter.com/_/status/931596075240185856)
@pfrazee @Iiterature @jessewldn @team_slava @Truebitprotocol @chain @kin_foundation @PROPSproject @VoltzRoad @zeligf @joincolony @relevantfeed @dat_project Two counter points: 1) the value is derived by users directly from an open data network, and is represented by a network effect rather than a currency. 2) if work is any good, the quality will be comparable to facebook, not the indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/931603706713395212)
@martijnvdven @funwhilelost Seattle is still listed as one that is getting started, with you as organiser, which is why I was asking: https://indieweb.org/HWC#Seattle
I would move it down to “needs restarting” if you aren’t organising any more, which is why I was asking when I was cleaning the wiki page. (twitter.com/_/status/931612576445845504)
tantek sknebel: "instead of ignoring" different question. answered in /POSSE#Why
@frankmeeuwsen Toch weer even van me afgeschreven. Over posse, pesos en pesetas. #indieweb-praat dus. http://diggingthedigital.com/POSSE-en-PESOS/ (twitter.com/_/status/931653824980365312)
@peridotfire Thinking about attending IndieWebCamp in December. Anyone else going? https://www.eventbrite.com/e/indiewebcamp-austin-2017-tickets-39918084064 (twitter.com/_/status/931657661883535362)