#indieweb 2017-11-21

2017-11-21 UTC
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@khurtwilliams https://david.shanske.com/2017/11/20/indiewebcamp-austin-december-9-10-2017-austin-texas/ (twitter.com/_/status/932794847412604928)
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strugee ancarda, Zegnat: yep
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Loqi strugee: snarfed left you a message on 2017-08-07 at 10:48pm UTC: ^^^ i'd love thoughts on this if you have any! (https://snarfed.org/indieweb-activitypub-bridge )
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strugee in my basement
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strugee yikes! that's a long time ago
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strugee !tell snarfed yikes, somehow literally only just saw your ping on the initial AP/IWC bridge design... I assume that turned into Bridgy Fed and you don't need my input anymore?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek strugee I bet more input welcome :)
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strugee heh, true
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strugee maybe after tomorrow
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strugee has a math midterm in the morning
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strugee which I certainly have not studied enough for
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curve25519 I think I'm an dns abuser: $ dig +short TXT kodo.ga
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KartikPrabhu curve25519: what does that even mean!?
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curve25519 KartikPrabhu: what does what mean?
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KartikPrabhu whatever you said before I asked. https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-11-21/1511242412983000
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Loqi [curve25519] I think I'm an dns abuser: $ dig +short TXT kodo.ga
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curve25519 KartikPrabhu: dig is a dns lookup tool for looking up dns records
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curve25519 that command will list the TXT records i have on the kodo.ga domain
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KartikPrabhu oh ok. still don't know what it has to do with indieweb
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curve25519 That unfortunate :(
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ancarda I’ll check once I have a computer, but I fully expect your whole h-card in a TXT record
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bear nicely done curve25519 -- looks to be all your rel=me refs in TXT form
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@GlennRicePro @carapacing @martijnvdven Perhaps give @ChrisAldrich a follow. His 2018 resolution is to put together just that - a guide to explain #indieweb to Gen 2,3 and up. http://boffosocko.com/2017/10/20/indieweb-the-book/ (twitter.com/_/status/932922576820510720)
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Zegnat Good advice ^^^
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sknebel good morning Zegnat
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Zegnat Hello sknebel. Working on anything today?
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sknebel Zegnat: not yet, busy with uni stuff for now. but made a paper list of "small things" to do in downtime, so we'll see
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sknebel you?
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Zegnat I think I got the worker stuff figured out, so now trying to put everything I learned together into the new webmention endpoint
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indie-visitor #d3d9
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indie-visitor hey is somebody here?
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[markmhendrickso Yup ?
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dgold nobody here except us chickens
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sknebel what is chicken?
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Loqi chicken is a type of post supported by idno https://indieweb.org/chicken
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ancarda Can anyone explain how the Slack bridge works? e.g. `Quit: Slack user timed out` -- doesn't Slack always remain connected?
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sknebel ancarda: the bridge removes users from IRC after a timeout (10 mins?)
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dgold ancarda: /ignore * JOINS, PARTS, QUITS
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ancarda I'm not sure how to do that on IRCCloud :/ I may setup ZNC or something similar one day
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Zegnat You can’t hide parts/quits? Wow. I wouldn’t be able to survive on IRCCloud
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ancarda Hmm, I added it, but I'm not sure how to test it
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dgold ancarda: some clients require the commas, others do not
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dgold so try both and see what happens
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dgold but any IRC client should obey /ignore
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dgold wow, someone's trying to monetise irc?
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dgold that's... special
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sknebel ?
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ancarda I'm not sure it's monetized, it's more a bouncer with a web interface and mobile apps
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dgold sknebel: that IRCcloud thing, $4p/m for 'unlimited IRC connections'
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snarfed slack did it pretty effectively
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Loqi snarfed: strugee left you a message 12 hours, 44 minutes ago: yikes, somehow literally only just saw your ping on the initial AP/IWC bridge design... I assume that turned into Bridgy Fed and you don't need my input anymore?
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snarfed strugee: right
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ancarda I suppose I could setup that myself, but I'm too lazy
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sknebel dgold: I personally think "hosting a good client for people who don't want to/can't run their own bouncer" is a totally fair and good thing to do
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dgold sknebel: I guess
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sknebel that we don't have more of that is one of the reasons we have slack & co now
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dgold its just that an irc client is the first thing I install on, well, everything
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sknebel sure, but if you want a bouncer you're renting a server of your own or have friends who do
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strugee snarfed: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-11-21#t1511231776605000
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strugee lol
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dgold i just see irc as some sort of 'the commons'
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Zegnat I can totally see the value in IRCCloud’s mobile offering though. Because wow is most of the mobile landscape bad for IRC
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strugee oops
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strugee https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-11-20#t1511231776605000
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Loqi [tantek] strugee I bet more input welcome :)
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snarfed input is always welcome!
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strugee :)
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strugee will have _much_ more time after today
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sknebel Zegnat: yes, mobile is especially iffy. client makers basically have to run services for that if they want to offer push-notifications
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dgold oh, aaronpk, any response from slack about the bots thing?
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sknebel especially since the mobile OSes lock down apps having network connections all the time more and more
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sknebel (Quassel is going to have to redo their entire sync protocol basically to work around new policies in android, and if the app wants to be reliably be able to notify you of events (highlights) it needs a push connection, which basically has to be through infrastructure by the app-publisher)
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ancarda Yeah, I'm not sure if this is possible with all the existing bouncer software - which is partly why I went with IRCCloud in the end
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ancarda Most of the time I'm on my phone
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ancarda So I needed good mobile support, and IRC isn't so mobile friendly :(
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@hummingrain Sorry I haven't been around as much. Been over at on Mastodon more lately. Looking into a way to crosspost, but considering doing the Indieweb thing and posting everything at my own site first before federating it out. (twitter.com/_/status/932994517770289154)
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Zegnat Lounge is OK on phone, but no notifications
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sknebel even though webapps should have a somewhat easier time implementing them, given that they get push infra from the browser makers
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ancarda I'd need to wait for Apple to implement Service Workers in Safari, which might take a while
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[miklb] I think they are making their way through webkit now
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ancarda I might switch to Android at some point, it seems much better for web apps
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ancarda I worry a bit about privacy and security; being guaranteed regular security updates for a few years, and being able to deny permissions for apps (e.g. Facebook does not need access to my microphone)
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ancarda But I think Android has made progress in those areas?
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Zegnat Yes. My Facebook has basically no permissions set
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Zegnat Can’t use camera either. Only give it access to the filmroll so I can upload photos that I have already taken
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Zegnat But I don’t like how slow the security updates are, unless you go with a custom rom
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ancarda I guess I could do that -- My phone might come with bloatware so I could fix both problems that way?
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ancarda Something like LineageOS?
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aaronpk dgold: yes they said it's a known bug in the iOS app
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[keithjgrant] @ancarda — there are two types of Android. 1st class Android devices, put out by Google, and everything else. The Google devices always get timely updates, and are usually the only way to go, IMO
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Zegnat I just wish they had released a budget Google phone.
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sknebel even the google phones are quite limited in update duration compared to how long I'd like to use a phone
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sknebel so Custom ROM it is
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[keithjgrant] I'm on a 2-year-old Nexus 5X, still getting updates
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sknebel and security patches will stop on that in less than a year from now
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[keithjgrant] I rarely make it 3 years without breaking a phone ?
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sknebel yeah I try to keep them for ages. but since custom roms aren't much of a hassle nowadays I don't mindh aving to use those
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[keithjgrant] (in truth, I'm on my second 5X)
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sknebel I'm on year 6 of an original Galaxy Note :P
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[keithjgrant] Wow
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sknebel getting a bit long in tooth though. and I guess a new phone wouldn't survive as long, since you can't just swap the battery as easily nowadays
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Zegnat I am on year 2 of my Moto G. But because that’s a sub 200 euro phone I am OK with it not making it 5 years
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sknebel also true. Although I sometimes feel I primarly hate picking a new phone to buy, since I tend to take longer with that than the market is stable ;)
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ancarda What about Galaxy Note 8 for updates?
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petermolnar re android bloatware: if you manage to get a recovery on the machine, just install Magisk, which is a systemless root, and remove all the bloat
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petermolnar you'll still have OTA
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petermolnar which, though, will reinstall all the bloat
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petermolnar samsung is a weird one, they are using odin instead of fastboot, so that's tricky, and you'll most certainly lose warranty
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petermolnar if you want upgrades after the support period... good luck. In the early days, like with the HTC Desire, there were plenty of custom ROMs, pretty good ones as well, with clever hacks
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petermolnar after the collapse of Cyanogen, it got terrible
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ancarda So, are you saying my only real choice is a phone from Google? Nexus or Pixel?
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petermolnar not even that
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petermolnar I have a Nexus 10 tablet
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petermolnar a powerful beast, with a beautiful screen
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petermolnar stopped getting updates after 5.1.1...
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[miklb] lol, this just showed up in my twitter feed https://twitter.com/leolaporte/status/933001151750041601
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@leolaporte Since the beginning of 2017, Android phones have been collecting the addresses of nearby cellular towers—even when location services are disabled—and sending that data back to Google. Google says they don't save the info. https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/ (twitter.com/_/status/933001151750041601)
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petermolnar lineage/cyanogen is nightly only, with non working camera, for 6.1
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petermolnar and that's it
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[miklb] relevant to this off topic discussion
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petermolnar that's no surprise
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petermolnar yeah, this is -chat topic
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petermolnar that's true
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ancarda Yeah... I don't trust Google at-all, so I'd want to ideally get rid of any Google service/app if I were to switch to Android
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ancarda So I was looking at stuff like LineageOS
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[keithjgrant] I hear that
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ancarda No real alternative to iOS by the sounds of it. It seems like it's closer every year
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petermolnar ancarda you won't be able to get rid of google on android. I've tried, I wrote about it, but in the end, everything falls apart without play store
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ancarda :(
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petermolnar though why people trust apple more, I still don't understand
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petermolnar it's just another company
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ancarda I trust Apple slightly more than Google as they seem to do more on-device processing and work
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ancarda I don't have iCloud enabled on any of my devices
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ancarda Problem is, you kinda need to trust someone - on computers you can thankfully use Linux, and even go only-free-software, but is there anything like that for phones?
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ancarda Ubuntu OS seemed pretty neat, but I don't think that went anywhere in the end
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[miklb] I use iCloud because I haven’t been given a reason to not trust it and the few trade offs of having my “stuff” on all of my machines is worth it.
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[keithjgrant] Yeah, I trust Apple more, too. They make money when I but stuff. Google makes money off my personal info
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[keithjgrant] s/but/buy
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Why I've migrated my mail, calendar and contacts to Fastmail" by Rob Fairhead on 2017-11-21 http://raretrack.uk/2017/why-ive-migrated-my-mail-calendar-and-contacts-to-fastmail
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[miklb] lol
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[keithjgrant] Plus Google's been doing creepy stuff lately
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[miklb] laughing at the superfeedr item
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ancarda I also use FastMail, but I'd be open to moving contacts, calendars, and notes to my own server. I haven't had time to look into e.g. CalDAV/CardDAV, etc... which iOS can use
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raretrack Yeah, I should have wrote about wanting that too, ancarda, that's for another day though!
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ancarda Still, I think Google-->FastMail is a great step forward! I did that too ages ago
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[jeremycherfas] dgold I was happy enough to pay for Textual, but only once.
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raretrack Glad you like the post, miklb, not sure I intended it to be amusing but hey-ho :)
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[miklb] speaking of mail alternatives, I’m testing out AWS WorkMail. So far I’m liking it, especially since all of my contacts & calendar stuff was never in my email provider.
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dgold [jeremycherfas]: I got it on a sale, so I have it for some things.
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dgold mostly though, I use weechat on a vps
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grantcodes For the people looking for a budget google phone checkout the new(ish) xiaomi phone with stock android. Not sure how easy it is aquire where you are
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raretrack Just permanently deleted all of my Google Calendar events - felt good!
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[keithjgrant] I switched to ProtonMail. Getting off gcal will be more difficult. I use a lot of calendar sharing with my family
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@JDRedding IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/933021301979205632)
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@JDRedding IndieWeb http://indieweb.org.ridder.co/O48yEb (twitter.com/_/status/933021308006404096)
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raretrack My other half is still on gcal - will be interesting to see how we go with one on it, one off it.
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Zegnat I also have several shared calendars going on. Which has been keeping me from switching
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[miklb] another reason the trade off for iCloud is worth it to me. I pay for family sharing for reason.
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raretrack if only we had true interoperability!
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[miklb] lol
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[miklb] raretrack++
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Loqi raretrack has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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petermolnar on the android notes: I found most of the cheap chinese phones (blu, nomu, etc) have more or less stock android, with only a minor google integration; most of them allow oem unlock via fastboot, so you can simply install anything on them, though finding a recovery might be tricky
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petermolnar however, a handful of them shipped with a rootkit which, so reflashing stock wasn't an option to get rid of the malware...
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petermolnar I honestly have no idea where to get a reasonable phone these days.
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petermolnar on the calendar notes: set up a radicale instance, it's perfectly fine, provides carddav/caldav, works like charm for me
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petermolnar it can do auth via imap which makes things simpler, so you can use your mail provider (if it has imap) as authentication for it
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raretrack i used to root and rom my phones but tend to stick to stock these days. I disable apps like Gmail, Play Movies (and now Google Calendar), but as said above Google Play is quite sticky
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ancarda I suppose it depends what Google Play does; I know about GCM but how much data is going through or managed by Google?
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grantcodes https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/7ebm5w/is_it_time_to_seriously_promote_the_idea_of/
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petermolnar here, use this to keep stock, but get root: https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/magisk/official-magisk-v7-universal-systemless-t3473445
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aaronpk Can I vote that the whole cell phone discussion moves to #indieweb-chat plz? It's past the point of being on topic
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ancarda Sorry, I didn’t know about #indieweb-chat, happy to move there
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ancarda Is that channel for anything off-topic?
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petermolnar yes
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petermolnar and sorry aaronpk
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raretrack yep, sorry aaronpk
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aaronpk grantcodes: i'm glad to see others in that thread pointing out that often design/ux is the problem with these efforts :)
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@josemurilo “Today our phones don’t allow us to do what goTenna does [#Mesh], but we’re going to prove that they should be able to.” #goTenna #redecentralize #indieweb https://www.techcrunch.com/2017/11/14/a-mesh-network-spontaneously-erupts-in-the-us-and-helps-connect-puerto-rico/ (twitter.com/_/status/933031319252160514)
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grantcodes Yeah, also interesting to see the different ideas of what the problems and solutions are
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@francisclarke Ahead of next month's @OpenRightsBrum #IndieWeb session with @kevinmarks I'm dusting off my old blog and taking it self-hosted. Wish me luck ? (twitter.com/_/status/933053515332714498)
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josejuanisaac hello iwc!
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josejuanisaac and Hello @Loqi!
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josejuanisaac i finally have my blog working
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josejuanisaac it's quite nothing to look at right now but i honestly cannot give a good reason as to why i did not have it set up earlier
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KartikPrabhu welcome josejuanisaac
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josejuanisaac hey @KartikPrabhu
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josejuanisaac how is it going
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