#indieweb 2018-01-05

2018-01-05 UTC
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tantek the m.facebook link you shared in chat here works.
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[kevinmarks] Gah. That was the quill/known escaping glitch again
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tantek who is overescaping?
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[kevinmarks] I don't know
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[kevinmarks] I think known
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[kevinmarks] Zuck is id 4 on Facebook
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "i felt my first earthquake." https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/nc72948801 (from http://matienzo.org/2018/004/quake/)
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aaronpk haha what that's awesome
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk uhoh, i'd better look at my salmention sending code
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aaronpk it appears it *is* sending out an extra level of webmentions
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sknebel did you sucessfully make a loop, or not *that* bad yet?
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aaronpk I don't think it's looping
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aaronpk but manton commented on my post and it sent eeeeverything again
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aaronpk ohno, I got micro.blog into a loop
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sknebel do they do salmention too?
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schmarty \o/
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aaronpk it appears micro.blog is not deduping webmentions, and also is interpreting my "like" as a new post, so it is showing up a bunch of times
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aaronpk https://micro.blog/manton/254438
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Loqi [manton] @aaronpk Love these year wrap-up posts. You did a lot in 2017. Congrats.
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GWG Trying to decide if I should do something Indieweb tonight
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sknebel oups
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-01-04-16-30-15-CF3f8We9hs.jpg
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tantek "a lot" <-- understatement
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aaronpk reviews salmention
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aaronpk "If there were any changes (a new or updated response)"
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tantek right, if there were any changes to the post
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tantek but since many update webmentions won't change the target, the salmentions should stop there
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aaronpk aha I found the problem
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aaronpk I need to figure out how to tell whether receiving a webmention caused the post to change
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tantek yes that is key
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aaronpk it's tricky cause there are lots of things that can cause a change
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[kevinmarks] Hash it before and after?
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aaronpk hash what tho
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aaronpk comments count for changes and those aren't part of the storage of my posts
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tantek kevinmarks that sounds like someone who hasn't experienced or witnessed the pain of all the folks implementing "signatures" for various "social" things
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[kevinmarks] The html
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tantek aaronpk knows what I'm talking about
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tantek lol kevinmarks so when you change your templates all hashes break
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tantek kevinmarks, search the w3c # social channel for the past two years for signature OR signatures OR LDS
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[kevinmarks] I'm assuming that you don't change your templates during webmention processing
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aaronpk until recently I did 😂
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aaronpk I moved my clock out of the HTML to avoid that problem
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tantek :)
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KartikPrabhu including HTML templates in hashing seems very bad
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KartikPrabhu I change my templates a lot!
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tantek what is hashing
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hashing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "hashing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu what is hash?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hash" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "hash is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu oh well!
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tantek yup - jargony enough to go to dev
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tantek it's plumbing, nothing essential for any user feature
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KartikPrabhu true
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[kevinmarks] Hashing is a way of condensing a digital object into a fixed size number. This is useful when checking if something has changed or if you already have a copy of it.
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Loqi ok
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tantek citation needed on that claim :P
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tantek "useful"
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[kevinmarks] Hashing << git
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Loqi ok, I added "[[git]]" to the "See Also" section of /Hashing
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KartikPrabhu that depends on which sources are cited :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I'll start with the challenge of selfdogfooding
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[kevinmarks] Hashing << http://svgur.com/dweb
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Loqi ok, I added "http://svgur.com/dweb" to the "See Also" section of /Hashing
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KartikPrabhu there it is ^
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[kevinmarks] What is etag?
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Loqi etag is a header sent in an HTTP response to allow future fetches of the same URL to be skipped if nothing has changed https://indieweb.org/etag
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[kevinmarks] Hashing << etag
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Loqi ok, I added "[[etag]]" to the "See Also" section of /Hashing
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[kevinmarks] Hashing << Bittorrent
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Loqi ok, I added "Bittorrent" to the "See Also" section of /hashing
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[kevinmarks] Hm
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[kevinmarks] What is Bittorrent?
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Loqi Bittorrent Sync is a proprietary Dropbox replacement/alternative https://indieweb.org/bittorrent
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[kevinmarks] O_o
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[kevinmarks] That's the tail wagging the dog
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aaronpk I think I just implemented a partial fix for my salmention sending
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aaronpk it's gonna be too complicated to check whether a comment was updated, but at least now it will only send salmentions when a post receives a new comment instead of for every webmention a post receives
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aaronpk heh speak of the devil, bridgy just sent me a whole bunch of instagram backfeed
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aaronpk looks like I also need some sort of throttling/batching. no sense in sending a salmention for each of the 10 likes that come in within seconds of each other
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anarchivist whee, looks like my webmention to indienews worked :D
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anarchivist aaronpk: incidentally, i'm noticing that the ruby-webmention client is sending mentions to my home page :think
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aaronpk that's not entirely inaccurate
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anarchivist from other posts on my site, i mean.
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk but I should probably revisit both the ruby and php webmention libraries to see what they are trying to send
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anarchivist is there something markup-wise i should be checking out for?
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anarchivist ah, i wonder if it's pulling it from the embedded h-card for the author info https://gist.github.com/anarchivist/1770c48ad4e33ac427c7562debd06389
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aaronpk oh yeah probably
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aaronpk gets to put his new salmention code to the test
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aaronpk got another comment on the post
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-01-05.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@ChrisAldrich @mrkrndvs Nice IndieWeb user page Aaron. Saw your note about posting via Android and thought this page would help if you haven't seen it yet: https://indieweb.org/mobile_posting (twitter.com/_/status/949149004142489605)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@mrkrndvs Nice IndieWeb user page Aaron. Saw your note about posting via Android and thought this page would help if you haven't seen it yet:" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-05 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/mrkrndvs-nice-indieweb-user-page-aaron-saw-your-note-about
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@derhess That article about "p2p social networking" http://louis.center/p2p-social-networking reminds me on the discussions about #bookmarking and #indiereader of the @indiewebcamp in Berlin. #socialmedia #P2P #indieweb #Decentralized #network #technology #links #distribution @IndieWebCampDE (twitter.com/_/status/949175598328549376)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Reply to a Comment on Supporting Digital Identities in School" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-05 http://boffosocko.com/2018/01/05/reply-to-a-comment-on-supporting-digital-identities-in-school/
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@IndieWebCampDE Der nächste Homebrew Website Club Nürnberg findet am nächsten Mittwoch, den 10.1. wie immer in der @tollwerkstatt statt. Kommt vorbei! https://indieweb.org/events/2018-01-10-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/949210585299914752)
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@jkphl First Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg of 2018 will happen next Wednesday, January 10th. Join in and prepare your personal website for another #indieweb year! https://indieweb.org/events/2018-01-10-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/949210975894425601)
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
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Loqi [superfeedr] "a post In reply to https://aaronparecki.com/2017/12/30/7/indieweb-badge. 👍" by Xavier Roy on 2018-01-05 https://xavierroy.com/2018/01/05/565/
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@samim https://brid.gy/ is a interesting #indieweb service, which pulls all replies &amp; likes to your post on social networks, making them accessible in your own app/blog. (twitter.com/_/status/949220746328494080)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "New Tiny IndieWeb Badge! • Aaron Parecki" by Xavier Roy on 2018-01-05 https://xavierroy.com/2018/01/05/new-tiny-indieweb-badge-%e2%80%a2-aaron-parecki/
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Zegnat Aaaand, finally caught up on the chat logs
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Zegnat Seeing some interesting talk about transit tracking. I made some posts like that on Facebook when I was in Berlin. E.g. taking the underground: https://i.imgur.com/DvxmQNH.png
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Zegnat But the UI for those is super finicky.
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/949230326194225154
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@kevinmarks “you’ve been brought up on AIM, texting and Facebook, trained after almost 2 decades of “social media innovation” to have your dopamine system completely hijacked all day by endless scrolling + notifications. You were literally socialized to be an addict.” https://medium.com/@girlziplocked/six-compassionately-funny-books-for-millennials-fucked-by-anxiety-and-addiction-d510ab815c05 (twitter.com/_/status/949230326194225154)
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[kevinmarks] Oops, I thought I had my site on the clipboard
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[kevinmarks] Re weather - dark sky is pretty good at "now" here, but it's predictions are off. The don't seem to take topography into account, just move the weather system in a straight line, which does not work with the hills here.
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GWG [kevinmarks]: If I'm adding weather conditions to posts, I'm not sure I need predictions
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dgold we had a wonderful incident here late last year
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GWG Incident?
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dgold one of darksky's weather stations nearby was reporting mad temps
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dgold local temp was 2.4C, but that station was reporting (and being aggregated) at 24C
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GWG I'm going to be building an abstract weather provider class, which is what I did for location lookups.
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GWG Then, I can plug whatever API I want into it, and change without changing the final result.
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dgold when the temp picked up later in the day, suddenly the temp was shooting up throught the 60C, before they started disregarding it
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dgold sadly, this data does not feature in their 'Time Machine'
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GWG I'm a reporting station for Weather Underground and Open Weather Map.
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cweiske what do you report?
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GWG Weather conditions at my residence mostly
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GWG cweiske: Did you test that I satisfied your issue?
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GWG cweiske: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieauth/issues/2
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Loqi [cweiske] #2 Do not rely on indieauth.com
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cweiske no
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@sl007 @SKoch91 @HeNeArXn cc. @Heimatreport, die in Dortmund kurz im indieweb Zelt waren - Ahnung hat in Dorsten eben http://heimatmedien.de/dorsten-online/ ;)) (twitter.com/_/status/949271783571689472)
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cweiske I needed that two years ago when I was developing WP things on the train without internet connection
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cweiske what weather conditions? more than temperature?
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GWG cweiske: Sorry. pfefferle only turned the project over to the community last month
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GWG cweiske: Temperature, current conditions.
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GWG Most providers will give that.
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cweiske I have the temperature sensor of my heating that I could publish to services
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cweiske but nothing more
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GWG cweiske: But my station logs outside temperature, wind chill, heat index, dewpoint, humidity, barometric pressure, wind speed, rain rate...
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GWG I also have temperature and humidity sensors in every room, but I don't log them right now, they feed into my home automation system
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cweiske same here: i
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cweiske http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015/2015-07-03%20temp.png
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GWG For outside, I use a project called Weewx
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GWG My home automation system monitors radio transmissions from weather station temperature sensors and logs them
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petermolnar GWG what sensors are you using?
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GWG Acurite 433mhz ones
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@simonstl @ndw Argh. I didn't think folks would have to login. I'll explore that. No, I don't have a feed currently - I need to rebuild my blogging infrastructure, hopefully indieweb style, which would let you see the posts elsewhere. (twitter.com/_/status/949284760253329408)
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@cswordpress @keith_goofball I ask myself that every day. And I keep telling people to go indieweb. And I'll keep doing this until people listen. (twitter.com/_/status/949320267087732742)
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@cswordpress @keith_goofball I'm using a theme that supports microformats 2, the Indieweb plugin and its recommended plugins, plus a free service called Bridgy to collect responses and publish. (twitter.com/_/status/949321474355159040)
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@cswordpress @keith_goofball Go here: http://www.indieweb.org and look at the WordPress documentation. (twitter.com/_/status/949321609520779264)
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[miklb] ok, viral tweet backfeeding now. lol
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[miklb] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 291 karma in this channel (328 overall)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "A year of micro.blog" by john on 2018-01-05 http://johnjohnston.info/blog/a-year-of-micro-blog/
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tantek good morning #indieweb! it's newsletter day!
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@samim It's 2018, and a new "decentralised / indieweb" projects are still very often using highly technical features/jargon in their advertising/messaging. This has never and will never work, most people do not care. Start talking about values, design and experience instead. (twitter.com/_/status/949338346924527617)
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tantek ^^^ this is why we have a dev channel
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@samim It's 2018, and new "decentralised / indieweb" projects are still mostly using highly technical jargon features in their advertising / messaging. This has never and will never work, most people do not care. Start talking about values, design and experience instead. (twitter.com/_/status/949338641125568512)
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aaronpk s/very often/mostly
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aaronpk I went to go favorite that but then it was deleted
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@samim It's 2018, and new "decentralised / indieweb" projects are still mostly using highly technical jargon / feature descriptions in their advertising &amp; messaging. This has never, and will never work. Talk about values, design and experience instead and people might actually listen. (twitter.com/_/status/949339105804120065)
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aaronpk third time's the charm?
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tantek well if it's in reference to /projects then yes - that page still needs A LOT of clean-up
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tantek hmm I wonder if we demoted jargony projects to sub-pages if that would motivate / incentivize anyone
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aaronpk not a bad idea actually
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schmarty kind of enjoying watching this editing process
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tantek lol &amp; overescaping
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aaronpk :sigh:
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KartikPrabhu twitter still does not have an "edit" feature does it
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@donhodges Gigaom | IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and still control their content. https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/949340353689260032)
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KartikPrabhu huh! 2014!?
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aaronpk yay I have nice link previews on twitter and facebook again
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chrisaldrich Good morning!
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Loqi *yawn*
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tantek gives Loqi an espresso
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Loqi loves the espresso
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tantek good morning Chris Aldrich!
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tantek any thoughts on attempting a 100days project for 2018?
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snarfed ooh interesting, video-only reply backfed from twitter: https://miklb.com/2018/01/3012/#div-comment-1937
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Loqi Amanda Rocksalot
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snarfed GWG: looks like wordpress didn't handle it very well
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snarfed but the bridgy mf2 looks good...? https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/miklb/948601132397588481/949306079623766016
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Loqi [Amanda Rocksalot] tag:twitter.com,2013:949306079623766016 2018-01-05T15:46:21+00:00 Amanda Rocksalot deaaqua https://tw... [video]
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snarfed mf2 video property points to the mp4, no content property. https://mf2.kylewm.com/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/miklb/948601132397588481/949306079623766016
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snarfed (sorry, maybe for #dev)
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GWG Will have to look after work
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[miklb] snarfed I saw that. I’m debugging why my likes aren’t showing in the theme, but wanted to look at that as well.
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gRegorLove Hola, #indieweb
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tantek what is a photo reply
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Loqi photo reply is a reply with a photo, thus also a photo post that is in-reply-to another post https://indieweb.org/photo_reply
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tantek what is a video reply?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "video reply" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "video reply is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek ^^^ snarfed feel free to start that with the real world example you saw!@
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gRegorLove Looks like implied p-name strikes again, snarfed, GWG
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tantek or parser bug :P
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tantek pretty sure we have a issue resolution that we're waiting on parsers to implement to improve the p-name situation
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@cleverdevil IndieWeb Idea: Follow Friday, but for blogs. https://twitter.com/brentsimmons/status/949354384541990912 (twitter.com/_/status/949355546272034819)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb Idea: Follow Friday, but for blogs. https://twitter.com/brentsimmons/status/949354384541990912" by Jonathan LaCour on 2018-01-05 https://cleverdevil.io/2018/indieweb-idea-follow-friday-but-for-blogsbrentsimmonsstatus949354384541990912
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aaronpk ahh I like that list view
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aaronpk really needs a better archive view for his blog posts
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tantek aaonpk - I think clever archive views for different post types are an amazing creative opportunity
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tantek would it be useful to document a few ideas for those as brainstorming for the different post types?
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tantek e.g. yesterday's train tripes and Ticket to Ride style map display
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tantek *trips lol
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aaronpk hm, my site doesn't work based on post types anymore
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tantek yes it does you have several top level views
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tantek of only particular type(s) of posts
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aaronpk those are not based on post type
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aaronpk any post can appear in any of those
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tantek yes yes implied post type obv
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aaronpk there is nothing hard-coded to prevent a blog post from appearing in /photos
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aaronpk it just means that anything specific to those views that I do can't make assumptions about the posts that are in those views
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tantek "nothing" "prevent" doesn't really help explain, rather what would cause it?
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aaronpk well some of them already contain a mix of kinds of posts
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tantek so start with easy ones
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aaronpk I think the first one I want to change is https://aaronparecki.com/articles
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tantek aaronpk one "quick" suggestion is to provide a fixed position TOC of the articles on that page to the top left of the "stream" of articles (keep it in-flow above the articles for narrow/mobile view)
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aaronpk hm that's an interesting idea
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tantek could also add the (Prev / )"Next" button/link to that TOC as well so someone could paginate through without having to scroll to the bottom
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tantek since your articles have names, a TOC comes naturally to that archive view
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[cleverdevil] Did you take a look at https://github.com/mapkyca/php-ogp
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Loqi [mapkyca] php-ogp: Simple PHP Open Graph Protocol parser library
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[cleverdevil] Blurgh, that should have been in #dev.
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[keithjgrant] Well, since I can’t use Telegraph to send WMs anymore (https://github.com/aaronpk/Telegraph/issues/24) ... is there another tool anyone can recommend in the meantime?
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Loqi [keithjgrant] #24 Only showing links from first mf2 object on page
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[keithjgrant] s/telegram/telegraph
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aaronpk I'll fix it soon I promise :)
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[keithjgrant] yay!
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Loqi woot
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[keithjgrant] not trying to pressure you. i know how it goes 🙂
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[keithjgrant] …says the guy with a dozen Omnibear features on the backlog
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dgold [keithjgrant]: you could try the lazymention?
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dgold https://github.com/strugee/lazymention
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Loqi [strugee] lazymention: Support WebSub and Webmention on a static site
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tantek whoa looks like livejournal blogs are down
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tantek https://www.livejournal.com/ is up
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tantek however if you look at "Top Journals" "Today"
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tantek huh I just got 500 Internal Server Error nginx
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tantek now they're loading weird
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snarfed [keithjgrant]: or https://mention-tech.appspot.com/ , or (my favorite) curl :P
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dgold isn't livejournal owned by the GRU now?
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aaronpk is very thankful for solving his salmention issue yesterday. bridgy is backfeeding likes to my post even though I didn't posse that post to FB
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tantek bridgy tends to be over-inclusive by design :)
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snarfed "promiscuous"
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aaronpk i'm still sending 100 webmentions to myself each time a bridgy like comes in, but at least it stops there :)
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tantek so you wrote a good p3k stress test
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dgold tantek: livejournal is owned by Alisher Usmanov - so its almost certainly owned by Russian State Actors
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aaronpk aaronparecki.com -> telegraph.p3k.io -> webmention.io -> aaronparecki.com 😂 100 times every time a like comes in
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tantek dgold apparently an harbinger of Russian State Actor actions in US Social Media
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dgold sigh :(
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@ChrisAldrich @anarchivist I've always thought that #IndieWeb ideas were Earth-shaking too, but never to this extent! (twitter.com/_/status/949386856139051008)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@anarchivist I've always thought that #IndieWeb ideas were Earth-shaking too, but never to this extent!" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-01-05 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/anarchivist-ive-always-thought-that-indieweb-ideas-were-earth-shaking-too
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tantek lol [chrisaldrich]
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anarchivist hehe
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@colinjohnston I love this! Makes me feel like I’m at an @aneventapart—especially the fanboy part. (Note to self: Next time @adactio invites you to local @indiewebcamp meet-up don’t be shy!) https://twitter.com/toddlibby/status/949365756428455942 (twitter.com/_/status/949391385865498624)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-01-05.html
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Loqi [indienews/nl] New post: "Eerste Homebrew Website Club meetup in Nederland" http://diggingthedigital.com/Homebrew-Website-Club-Meetup-1/
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@frankmeeuwsen Helaas kan ik er zelf niet bij zijn, ik ben op de CES in Las Vegas. Maar volgende week is de eerste Homebrew Website Club meetup in Nederland. Waar, wanneer en wat kun je verwachten? http://diggingthedigital.com/Homebrew-Website-Club-Meetup-1/ (twitter.com/_/status/949394602028658689)
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@Darchmare @cleverdevil If your next venture isn’t IndieWeb-related I must admit that I will be somewhat disappointed! (twitter.com/_/status/949396140004229120)
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@cleverdevil @Darchmare Well, prepare to be disappointed. That said, I'm planning on being involved with the IndieWeb for the long haul. Its too important :) (twitter.com/_/status/949396358644969472)
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chrisaldrich Tantek: Sorry, I've gone down some rabbit holes today. I'm considering some 100 days projects, many reading related.
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tantek reading related is quite worthy
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tantek I think Zegnat said he was going to do one reading related too, but per week not per day I think
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chrisaldrich I liked eddie's idea of a chapter a day, but I'm also thinking about 100 days of reading scientific journal articles because I'd like to make that more of a regular habit.
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chrisaldrich Mostly I'm trying to focus on reading longer extended pieces and less fluff/social media-y related surface-only thought
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Zegnat I am reading (at least) 1 book/week this year. Hopefully. And I want to post about that.
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tantek Zegnat definitely!
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tantek add that to https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb#Other_Durations at least for now
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[eddie] My daily chapters did not go well. lol
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tantek or how long did they go well?
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[eddie] They lasted 11 days
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[eddie] 😆
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[eddie] so… 10 days of Reading Chapters
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[eddie] lol
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tantek [eddie] that's worth capturing as a good 10 day challenge then! :)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-01-05.html
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tantek ooh let's see how we did
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Zegnat Loqi, +v me! :D
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[kevinmarks] Huh, how was hashing not a new page?
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[kevinmarks] It was all this week https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=hashing&action=history
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tantek hmm, I see "hashing 1 edit by loqi.me"
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Zegnat Didn't we have a special non-redirecting URL for the chatlogs, for bookmarking purposes? Can't find it.
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-01-05.html (twitter.com/_/status/949418993386848256)
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tantek Zegnat: https://indieweb.org/IRC#Logs_on_Your_iPhone_Home_Screen
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chrisaldrich tantek++ for positive framing!
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Loqi tantek has 231 karma in this channel (412 overall)
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Zegnat That probably needs to move to /discuss. Thanks tantek!
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Zegnat takes the logs of what he missed while rebooting as bed time reading.
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Zegnat Actually finished a book this week. But can't post /read posts yet 😢
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tantek Zegnat post them like I do! just notes with emoji :D https://indieweb.org/read#Tantek
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Zegnat I can't post at all tantek. I have time this weekend to finish my Micropub system before 2018-01-07. Then I can post.
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chrisaldrich eddie: there's no real magic to "consecutive", so feel free to pick back up where you left off. If it's worth attempting a 100Day project, it's certainly worth doing individual days...
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tantek thanks chrisaldrich
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[eddie] That’s true chrisaldrich. I might do that, a “non-consecutive 100 days of reading chapters”. It will still help my primary goal which is 1: finishing these four books before their sequel comes out in May and figure out my “read” posts